Paramount decision leaves retailers explaining

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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how is hd-dvd better?look at the specs next time.blu-ray has way more capacity than hd-dvd.you can't say hd-dvd is better with nothing to support that.

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What audio code does Blu-ray have that HD-DVD not have standard? I can name two that HD-DVD has standard that Blu-ray does not have standard: Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD. Does Blu-ray have internet support? Is Blu-ray region-free?

Outside its size and coating, the Blu-ray is, "Well . . . maybe we will have it. It is optional." The HD-DVD has clear mandatory features.

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Anyone who was daft enough or so poorly informed so as to not realise that a game console could not and would not 'win' the (much bigger) adult a/v market is onto a loser from the off.

That's why Paramount dumped Blu-ray.

Too much cost associated with what will be a (relatively) small and to all serious intents and purposes 'PS3 proprietary format'.
Welcome to the new UMD.

HD DVD offers everything Blu-ray does (and when the burners arrive with TL 51gb discs it'll even beat it for sheer capacity).

Content is now on HD DVD's side too (just for all those who used to claim their 'support' for Blu-ray was only based upon content).

Before Paramount's announcement a Blu-Ray supporter had access to 62% of all available HiDef titles, while a HD DVD supporter had access to 61%.

After the Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Film/Nickelodeon announcement the HD DVD supporter still has 61% - that hasn't changed, but the Blu-Ray supporter now has only 55%.

This does not take imports into account or odd disks distributed in some countries, (HD DVD's Studio Canal releases aren't there in those stats for instance). The figures are based on:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

These numbers cover American releases only.

Neither owner gives up on half of all available titles.

The HD DVD supporter misses out on 39% while the Blu-Ray owner now misses out on 45%.

But if you take into account that 60 of those supposedly 'exclusive' Blu-ray titles are in fact available on HD DVD internationally
(which thanks to HD DVD being region-free everytime you can buy without worry)
it turns out Blu-ray currently has in fact only 110 or so exclusive titles
(and that number was true before this move by Viacom/Paramount. MTV Film/Dreamworks/Nickelodeon, as Paramount ramp up their support of HD DVD that gap can only widen).

CEDIA in a couple of weeks is certain to be very interesting, more excellent news for HD DVD is expected.

I was going to post something about this article, but I keep getting distracted by aabbccdd's pics...

I think the girls are quite beautiful but perhaps they should be on another site.

Originally posted by gallagher:

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What audio code does Blu-ray have that HD-DVD not have standard? I can name two that HD-DVD has standard that Blu-ray does not have standard: Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD. Does Blu-ray have internet support?

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Blu-Ray has both audio codecs but they are optional so it depends on the studio not Blu-Ray.Far as internet connectively as of now no, but why would anyone need it & HD-DVD hasn't done a good job of using there internet connectively other than firmware updates.

Originally posted by nptwenty:

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I own a PS3 but could'nt care less about either format. Untill Full HD Tvs are standard there's no point. When Sony made a deal with Blockbuster & Woolworths to sell Blu -Ray only nobody battered a eyelid but now a studio has gone HDDVD only everyone's moaning. Iv'e seen 300 on HDDVD and its friggen awesome! Casino Royal I watched on Blu-Ray was'nt as impressed.

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So you watch 300 on HD-DVD & watched Casino Royal on Blu-Ray.Let me guess you own a PS3 but you didn't know 300 was on Blu-Ray but you want to compare the two that makes a lot of sense.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Anyone who was daft enough or so poorly informed so as to not realize that a game console could not and would not 'win' the (much bigger) adult a/v market is onto a loser from the off.

That's why Paramount dumped Blu-ray.

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Really that bout a asinine comment i every heard on this site you really need to do some research on the PS3 BD player because Many A/V retailers have said that its a High end BD player & was the only BD player to support 1.3 on it launch day.As of now its still one of the top BD player on the market regard less that its a gaming console also.Paramount switched because Microsoft paid them not because they seen HD-DVD was better.

Originally posted by hughjar:

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Content is now on HD DVD's side too (just for all those who used to claim their 'support' for Blu-ray was only based upon content).

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So now you have change up on me because you told a month ago that HD-DVD studios was just as better than Blu-Ray.Adding paramount not going to do it my friend look at the HD movie sells & tell me how many Paramount has in the top twenty other than 300.........


Bottoms broke down studio market share within Blu-ray-exclusive studios, showing that Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment commands a 14% piece; 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, 16%; Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, 18%; MGM Home Entertainment, 3%; and Lionsgate, 7%.

The HD DVD-only side accounts for 23% of the market, including 10% from Universal Studios Home Entertainment share and 13% from Paramount Home Entertainment. Warner Home Video, producing in both HD DVD and Blu-ray, accounts for 19% of the high-def market.











Look people Blu-Ray & HD-DVD are the same they use the same tech.I don't know how some people can see this very big different.Everyone knows the Problem with Blu-Ray is Price,The problem with HD-DVD is movie exclusives.The positives for Blu-Ray is a lot of major studio support & The positives for HD-DVD is cost.Chose the format that fit you.

well maybe by the Christmas season we will see another price drop. this will probably go on for several more years before we have a clear winner

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How can you just pick a format and stick to it? Anybody can stock up on hd-dvd or blu-ray films and players. If you end up on the losing side what are you going to do then? Hundreds of dollars wasted. Sony will do everything that's in their power to push blu-ray even if its wheels are worn out. PS3 games are recorded in blu-ray if they do get knocked out they would need to find a way to modify their hardware so its games can be recognized in hd-dvd format and hope that the hd-dvd camp does not blacklist Sony in their attempts to negotiate licensing of hd into their PS3 or future technology. Now that would be embarrassing. I'm kind of hoping that would happen. My folks bought a Beta Max back in the late 80’s and its been collecting dust ever since VHS won. I got several blank tapes and its reproduction is near DVD quality but nobody cared about specs. All that matters here is the cost of manufacturing and disc reproduction. Having higher capacity discs in regards to better compression, advanced codecs and cheaper production costs will not help blu-ray at all. Blu-ray is slightly better than DVD but its only achieved if viewed on a HD TV. Might as well author a bunch of dvds and stick them on a blu-ray disc as there is almost no quality difference, larger storage space the more crap you store. I don’t think neither format will be eliminated. One format will be used for films and the other for storage. I wouldn’t mind using blu-ray just for storage. HD DVD is has superior quality reproduction as many studios have come to realize and its production cost are much cheaper.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Far as internet connectively as of now no, but why would anyone need it

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- Er, because a lot of the supposedly appealing fabbo new 'extras' will depend on it?

Typical of the blu-ray side tho to downplay something they will claim vital later when they eventually get around to it themselves with 'profile 2.0'.

Mind you hardly any of the Blu-ray players are 'profile 1.1' compliant never mind 2.0.

In fact the only Blu-ray players confirmed as 'profile 1.1 compliant' are the $2000 Denon (which is not yet available) or the $900(?.....we're still awaiting confirmation of the actual price) Samsung BDP5000 dual format player (also not yet available)......not that the Blu-ray side will say much about this to their prospective customers!

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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HD-DVD hasn't done a good job of using there internet connectively other than firmware updates.

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- Is that like the PS3 has needed repeated firmware updates? :P

The fact is that net connectivity is there, working and set to be a part of all the HD DVD players sold to date.
It just hasn't been used greatly yet, that's all.

In contrast to Blu-ray where it isn't even a proper part of the required spec yet.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Let me guess you own a PS3 but you didn't know 300 was on Blu-Ray but you want to compare the two that makes a lot of sense.

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- True.

The pity about the Blu-ray version of the 300 is that it misses out on so many of the extras that the HD DVD side gets.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Really that bout a asinine comment i every heard on this site

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- LMAO.

Cry me a river......and try and wise up & develop a sense of proportion while you're at it.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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you really need to do some research on the PS3 BD player because Many A/V retailers have said that its a High end BD player & was the only BD player to support 1.3 on it launch day.

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- Which really tells you everything you need to know about the desperately tragic state of the rest of the Blu-ray market.

Cut to the chase, PS3 is Blu-ray to all serious intents and purposes.

Side-step it all you like but the central truth there holds, a mere game console was never and could never win the adult a/v market
(as indeed the PS3's poor sales numbers prove).

.....and as a high def player the PS3 has it's own short-comings too (particularly when it comes to it's audio performance).

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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As of now its still one of the top BD player on the market regard less that its a gaming console also.

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- Yeah, like I said it says everything you need to know about the appalling state of the BD side of the market.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Paramount switched because Microsoft paid them not because they seen HD-DVD was better.

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- Let's see you prove that (with something that actually proves it as opposed to a report of 'biased Bill Hunt's claims being reported in another paper or a report of a rumour.
You have no serious actual factual basis for this claim.)

In fact this is one of the most laughable claims the Blu-ray fanclub have tried to make yet.
As if $150 million is a big deal in Hollywood - nevermind to a real giant in Hollywood like Viacom/Paramount.

.......still I guess it keeps the blinkered idiot fanclub types from actually looking at and considering what Viacom/Paramount actually had to say on the matter, eh?

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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So now you have change up on me because you told a month ago that HD-DVD studios was just as better than Blu-Ray.

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- No, that's not what I've been saying (if I understood that comment properly.....your writing isn't easy sometimes, you know?).

Actually I've been saying that anyone who imagined that the situation with the movie studios was set in stone whilst the market was so tiny and immature was just fooling themselves.

I have previously pointed out that in terms of available content HD DVD led Blu-ray (thanks to the international situation and it being region-free everytime) and had more exclusive content available (even before the Viacom/Paramount move),
This was true and factually correct.

But go ahead, you made the claim so you back it up.
Feel free to post up anything different if you can find it (and let us all see the link so we see some context).

I have said for some time that ultimately the studios will always follow the money as the market develops and matures.
It is already very clear that PS3/Blu-ray has appalling attachment rates (less than 1 movie per player) whereas HD DVD has much better attachment rates (over 4 movies per player).

All it takes now is time.

The more HD DVD players sold the more that better attachment rate works in HD DVD's favour.
Paramount know that, they know HD DVD is set to release players under $200 very soon & that the HD DVD numbers sold will rise substantially.

Viacom/Paramount also know all about Blu-ray (having tried it for a year) and know all about the additional costs and the economics of working with it.
Paramount know that the relatively slim margin of additional sales the PS3 generates is more than offset by the extra costs of Blu-ray production.
That's what they said.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Adding paramount not going to do it my friend look at the HD movie sells & tell me how many Paramount has in the top twenty other than 300.........

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- Er, you seem to be under the strange illusion that the 'market' is static & that now that Viacom/Paramount have moved decisively & decided to be HD DVD exclusive that Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Film & Nickelodeon won't be releasing more of their huge catalogue!?

Wow, that's some odd logic at work there! :P

HD DVD can look forward to substantially lower than $200 player by X-mas.
Paramount know this is going to drive HD DVD sales way beyond anything PS3 can manage, they even specifically said as much.
The installation of HD DVD drives into all Toshiba laptop/notepads alone ensures an additional HD DVD installed base of around 9-10 million units (far larger than PS3) in a year (based on Toshiba laptop/notepad sales last year).

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Bottoms broke down studio market share

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- Nice try but no cigar.
This isn't about this year's current box-office numbers.

Try sticking to total available content and total potential content.

That 'market share' idea has little or nothing to do with what high def content is actually available now, what will be available in the near future and what each studio has as back-catalogue they can release.

Before Paramount's announcement a Blu-Ray supporter had access to 62% of all available HiDef titles, while a HD DVD supporter had access to 61%.

After the Viacom/Paramount/Dreamworks/MTV Film/Nickelodeon announcement the HD DVD supporter still has 61% - that hasn't changed, but the Blu-Ray supporter now has only 55%.

This does not take imports into account or odd disks distributed in some countries, (HD DVD's Studio Canal releases aren't there in those stats for instance). The figures are based on:

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

Note that these numbers cover American releases only and are pre-Paramount's move.

Neither owner gives up on half of all available titles.

The HD DVD supporter misses out on 39% while the Blu-Ray owner now misses out on 45%.

But if you take into account that 60 of those supposedly 'exclusive' Blu-ray titles are in fact available on HD DVD internationally
(which thanks to HD DVD being region-free everytime you can buy without worry)
it turns out Blu-ray currently has in fact only 110 or so exclusive titles
(and that number was true before this move by Viacom/Paramount. MTV Film/Dreamworks/Nickelodeon, as Paramount ramp up their support of HD DVD that gap can only widen).

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Look people Blu-Ray & HD-DVD are the same they use the same tech.

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- No, not quite.

Blu-ray is at every step significantly more expensive than HD DVD - with the singular exception of the 'combo disc'
(which, for now, at this stage is being marketed as 'additional value' or an additional feature compared to a vanilla high def disc).

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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I don't know how some people can see this very big different.

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- Cost & BD+ make all the difference in the world. :P

Love the climb-down by the way, very funny.

It's such an amusing change from all those months of that 'we already won' & 'HD DVD stands no chance' BS.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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Everyone knows the Problem with Blu-Ray is Price

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- Er, no, it's not just that.

The BD+/DRM issue is very very big for a lot of people......and relying so heavily on a game console is also putting a lot of prospective owners off too.

......and the Blu-ray response to their pricing problems?

(1)Have a stock-clearance sale on the dead 60gb PS3 sku but bring in a new sku at the old price point (a fake price cut in other words) and
(2)release the Sony S300 - a supposedly 'cheap' Blu-ray player @ $450 or so about 6 months before 'profile 1.1 is set to be mandatory.

The Sony S300 is not 'profile 1.1' compliant btw......talk about built-in obsolescence.
I'm looking forward to the back-lash from customers finding out they are going to miss out on the 'extras' that 'profile 1.1' compliance is supposed to bring.

Not forgetting the later profile 2.0 requirement for your net connectivity.

But then Blu-ray always was rushed and is basically unfinished.

I'm looking forward to them finally admitting that the PS3 isn't profile 1.1 compliant
(where is that necessary secondary video decoder?).
Cue lots of disappointed PS3 owners.

(and again this doesn't include any mention of the even more demanding 'profile 2.0' requirement/standard)

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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The problem with HD-DVD is movie exclusives.

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- Er, no it isn't.

Blu-ray is the format that has that problem actually (and even more so now that Paramount has completely dumped Blu-ray).

HD DVD has 165 exclusive movies out of a total title list of approx 272, see here -
http://hddvdstats.com/index.php

Blu-ray claim to have 172 exclusive titles out of a total list of approx 279 available titles, see here -
http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

But that is wrong and only applies to movies bought within the USA.

If you source internationally (hardly difficult these days on-line) it turns out around 60 of those supposedly 'Blu-ray exclusive' titles are available on HD DVD.

You can find out all about it here - http://areahd.dvdtiefpreise.com/?p=109

and here -
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/showthread.php?p=45960#post45960

So Blu-ray actually has something like only 110 exclusive movies. (largely sequels, kids and adolescents movies too IMO)

It also turns out therefore HD DVD has another 60 movies to add to that 272 and actually has a larger total content number of 332 of which 165 are HD DVD exclusive.

BTW for those thinking those new Fox releases will help it might be worth bearing in mind that Fox use Highlight Video as a distributor in Germany which is HD DVD = Fox movies appearing on HD DVD.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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The positives for Blu-Ray is a lot of major studio support

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- No, not any more it's not.

The studios are now pretty evenly split - but only for now.....expect more good news for HD DVD at CEDIA tho.

In terms of available content Blu-ray now trails HD DVD significantly.

See above.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

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The positives for HD-DVD is cost.Chose the format that fit you.

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- Well anyone with a handle on the true facts can see there is a lot more in the way of 'positives' for HD DVD than mere cost alone.

Blu-ray will survive (at least as long as the PS3 does) as a proprietary format for the PS3 - so as the studios go HD DVD there will at least be some catalogue left for it - Sony (& their studio/publishing/distribution partners) if nothing else eventually.

(But who in their right mind doesn't think Paramount's cost comments don't apply to everyone else?)

......and yes that girl is rather gorgeous!

Im not going to argue with that Hughjars, as, for the most part it is accurate(although theres still a fair bit of crap mingled with opinions stated as fact. But to say:

Quote:

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I have said for some time that ultimately the studios will always follow the money as the market develops and matures.
It is already very clear that PS3/Blu-ray has appalling attachment rates (less than 1 movie per player) whereas HD DVD has much better attachment rates (over 4 movies per player).

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Is extremely flawed logic, just as you cant say the PS3 doesnt count as a BD-player you also cant say that it definitely is (being used as one) it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the PS3 is primarily a game console(even though lacking in games) and that they plainly arent all going to be used as BD-players. I mean with less than one movie per player (how the hell do you have only half a movie?), I highly doubt anyone has a BD-player sitting in their A/V unit with absolutely no movies purchased('cept for a few renters) , but its highly possible/probable that 90% of PS3 owners have absolutely no interest in BD at all.

Quote:

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The installation of HD DVD drives into all Toshiba laptop/notepads alone ensures an additional HD DVD installed base of around 9-10 million units (far larger than PS3) in a year (based on Toshiba laptop/notepad sales last year).

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Yet more flawed logic, just like all the people saying they dont want BD in the PS3 what makes you think that people want to pay for a possibly dieing format to be in their laptop even if its only a little extra, not to mention the processing power thats normally needed to power these drives. When I went out to buy my laptop I was looking for as powerful a machine I could get for as little money as possible, hence I sorted out my minimum requirements and compared Brands, anything I got extra was a bonus, I wasnt going to pay more for it.

Also as long a BD is tied to the PS3 it technically cant fail, it can become a proprietary format, but it cant die.