@ eatsushi

updates for new features is up to each individual to decide if they want it but forced to flash your drive with the possibility of permanent damage if it goes wrong, and as with most hardware you take responsibility if any happens with warentee voided, for a broken DRM that is going to constantly evolve. this very disgraceful, but what do you expect from sony and fox.

sonys last lot of drm, ARccOS also failed to play in dvd players, and sony stated at first that ppl should contact their hardware manufactures for a firmware update witch, if your hardware is out of warranty is chargeable, and were not willing to refund for dodgy dvd's until the discs didn't work in sony dvd players either.



*edit*

and here you go!

this quote just says it all, fox put the drm on and deny all accountability telling ppl to lobby the manufacturers REFUNDS ANYONE, i don't think so!

http://www.betanews.com/article/New_Blur...ming/1191609316

Originally posted by link:

---

In a statement yesterday to Video Business, Fox' senior VP of communications, Steve Feldstein, acknowledged the issue but said the solution rests with the hardware manufacturers. Feldstein urged that console owners lobby those companies, implying some kind of mass movement.

---

Originally posted by link:

---

As one member of the Hi-Def Forum put it, "I have no idea how these AACS/BD+ thingies work...Why should I? As a customer, I just want a working product!"

---

---

Did anyone notice that the only players having problems with BD+ discs are those from Korean companies - namely Samsung and LG?

The players from Japanese companies (Sony, Panasonic, and Pioneer) have had no problems handling BD+ so far.

Just wondering.

If they are truly trying to get people to switch to high definition, then they will have to come up with a better solution than updating firmware. I know that my grandmother and mother currently do not have anything high definition and neither one owns a computer with a burner or has the internet. They simply do not need a computer for their lifestyle; however, they still watch TV and rent movies. I know my grandmother did not swich over to DVD until they stopped offering VHS in rental stores.

I have said it before and I will say it again, if I purchase a product that does not meet my expectations, i.e. it needs additional hardware or software to use other than expected, then back to the store it goes for a refund.

Personally I am waiting for the high definition war to end, which may not be for a few years, before I invest in a high definition player. At the very least I will wait for a five-disc, high definition, dual format player to come out before I will make the jump.

Gooooood ! I hope that there will be more problems like this on Blu ray

Since Halo 3 is having playback issues I blame bad manufacturing they refuse to check build quality half the time and this is a result....

I am sorry but this is total BS Because remember when when vhs VS. beta had its war well we know who won the one that had the ability too store more content and if I see this as the same thing we all know who is going too win.

Blu-ray hello even though more of the studios are supporting HD-DVD.

Think about it and it's a total different generation in the format war.

But I think it's on purpose.

I will go with the next gen my self Hologram it's in the works should see it by 2012.

@ ZippyDSM

bad manufacturing and sweat shop labour like foxconn can result in faulty items but this is the bd+ java security not being compatible and thinking it is in an "untrusted" device and shutting itself down. this is the reason that the disc is taking much longer to load as with vista and hdcp it is going through a series of checks and any that cause a flag will shut down the player.

the mpaa lobby have a lot to answer for because of damaging, crippling all hardware wanting to gain a licence to use hdcp, and now bd+ is another anti consumer lockdown. they don't give a dam about the consumer, as is plainly seen by the fox senior VP Steve Feldstein, basically give us your money and if it doesn't work contact your hardware manufacturer, wtf sort of customer service is that.

Originally posted by fox vp:

---

link to story

In a statement yesterday to Video Business, Fox' senior VP of communications, Steve Feldstein, acknowledged the issue but said the solution rests with the hardware manufacturers. Feldstein urged that console owners lobby those companies, implying some kind of mass movement.

---

---

Quote:

---

@ ZippyDSM

bad manufacturing and sweat shop labour like foxconn can result in faulty items but this is the bd+ java security not being compatible and thinking it is in an "untrusted" device and shutting itself down. this is the reason that the disc is taking much longer to load as with vista and hdcp it is going through a series of checks and any that cause a flag will shut down the player.

the mpaa lobby have a lot to answer for because of damaging, crippling all hardware wanting to gain a licence to use hdcp, and now bd+ is another anti consumer lockdown. they don't give a dam about the consumer, as is plainly seen by the fox senior VP Steve Feldstein, basically give us your money and if it doesn't work contact your hardware manufacturer, wtf sort of customer service is that.

Originally posted by fox vp:

---

link to story

In a statement yesterday to Video Business, Fox' senior VP of communications, Steve Feldstein, acknowledged the issue but said the solution rests with the hardware manufacturers. Feldstein urged that console owners lobby those companies, implying some kind of mass movement.

---

---

Ah well having DRM bite you on the ass is not new to sony, they are use to losing millions to protect....millions....wha?

Originally posted by ugc:

---

Just in case you work for Sony, and you happen to be reading this: I am one customer that will never buy into this Blu-ray DRM crap. I will not buy anything that supports it. If my sister marries a guy, and he has a Blu-ray player, I will talk her into getting a divorce. I don't even like people who KNOW someone who has a Blu-ray player.

-get where I'm coming from SONY?

---

Its really sad to see that your basing your decision off two disc compared to many discs & Box sets that has issue with HD-DVD player freezing or not playing on a lot of players at all.Mainly there combo format disc there forcing on there consumer that has a lot of issue & cost more than Blu-Ray titles.

Quote:

---

To whom do Combo discs currently appeal? Average movie buyers have continued to stick with the more affordable DVD-only option, a complete failure of the Trojan Horse plan. HD DVD buyers are upset that they're being forced to pay extra for a "feature" they will rarely (if ever) use. And those who support both HD DVD and Blu-ray would just as soon buy the Blu-ray that's $5 cheaper with the same quality and features. Combo discs put HD DVD in a no-win situation.

Worse than that, the damn discs don't even work half the time! Just the other night, I sat down to watch my recently-purchased HD DVD copy of '300' on my Toshiba HD-XA2 player, and I only made it 45 minutes before the stupid thing froze up and ceased playback. No matter how many times I try to restart the movie, the disc will not play beyond Chapter 14. This is an extremely high-profile release; in fact, it's currently the best-selling title on either the HD DVD or Blu-ray formats, and the disc won't function in a top-of-the-line HD DVD player! Who wants to put up with nonsense like that? I certainly don't.

Let's not kid ourselves that this is an isolated defective disc or a one-time anomaly. Complaints about playback problems on '300' are widespread, and similar compatibility issues have plagued earlier Combo releases such as 'Children of Men', 'The Good Shepherd', 'Happy Feet', 'Superman Returns', and 'The Matrix Reloaded' (copies from the expensive 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' box set which has the bonus features in DVD format on the flip-side of the disc). Some of these will only work properly on second-generation HD DVD players but not first-generation models, and some bizarrely just the opposite. Some function fine on Toshiba's players but not on Microsoft's HD DVD add-on accessory for the XBox 360, and others vice versa. Some don't work right on any player at all.

---

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/894

Originally posted by wolf123:

---

Blu-ray hello even though more of the studios are supporting HD-DVD.

---

Blu-Ray still has more support than HD-DVD even when you do add in the time exclusive deal with paramount.

Blu-Ray Studio support,

Lion’s Gate, MGM, Paramount, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures and Television, (including Walt Disney Home Entertainment, Hollywood Pictures Home Video, Touchstone Home Entertainment, Miramax Home Entertainment, Dimension Home Video and Disney DVD) Warner Bros. (including New Line Cinema in 07 and HBO Video) have publicly announced their support for the Blu-ray Disc format.

HD-DVD Studio support, Paramount Pictures, Universal Pictures, Warner Bros. Studios (including New Line Cinema in 08)

Originally posted by NexGen76 :

---

Its really sad to see that your basing your decision off two disc compared to many discs & Box sets that has issue with HD-DVD player freezing or not playing on a lot of players at all.Mainly there combo format disc there forcing on there consumer that has a lot of issue & cost more than Blu-Ray titles.

---

wow, just wow. you cannot possibly defend blu-ray from inserting anti consumer drm that causes playback issues can you, btw these are the first two discs released with this drm and are causing issues, because SPDC BD+ is constantly evolving there is no garentee that it will be compatable with older devices and if your player is out of warentee YOU have to pay for the fix!

Originally posted by NexGen76 :

---

Blu-Ray Studio support,

Lion’s Gate, MGM, Paramount, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox, Walt Disney Pictures and Television, (including Walt Disney Home Entertainment, Hollywood Pictures Home Video, Touchstone Home Entertainment, Miramax Home Entertainment, Dimension Home Video and Disney DVD) Warner Bros. (including New Line Cinema in 07 and HBO Video) have publicly announced their support for the Blu-ray Disc format.

---

that's a great list of MPAA members and the pro drm lobby right there, BD+ with unlimited power given to studios is why they are choosing this format, fox deliberately held back releases on hi def format until BD+ was an option so they could put code as part of the third lv countermeasures to monitor ppl's hardware and usage data including unique serial and ip for any players hooked up to the net.

Fox's answer to discs that fail to work is:

Originally posted by Originally posted by fox vp:

---

In a statement yesterday to Video Business, Fox' senior VP of communications, Steve Feldstein, acknowledged the issue but said the solution rests with the hardware manufacturers. Feldstein urged that console owners lobby those companies, implying some kind of mass movement.

---

Does that say they will refund for ppl's players that fail their drm checks?

Really BD+ was a bad idea to start with, this is only s sign of the issues it will have....

Originally posted by nobrainer:

---

wow, just wow. you cannot possibly defend blu-ray from inserting anti consumer drm that causes playback issues can you, btw these are the first two discs released with this drm and are causing issues, because SPDC BD+ is constantly evolving there is no garentee that it will be compatable with older devices and if your player is out of warentee YOU have to pay for the fix!

---

You really need to stop with this Anti-consumer BS when you buy any disc you buy one not two or three.Thats called piracy & that your intentions.I'm not trying to defend Blu-Ray i just see the common sense from this whole issue 1 this is the first BD+ discs to reach the market so i would say that your over reacting.2 when this disc only effect two BD players..I would say your over reacting again.When there is countless issue's with this disc then i will start to second guess.The fix is a firmware upgrade not a player compatibilities

Quote:

---

Calls placed to both Samsung and LG customer support revealed that both manufacturers are working on firmware updates to correct the problem. Samsung promised a firmware update within "a couple weeks," while LG said an update is expected in 2-3 days

---

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/F...k_Problems/1042

Originally posted by nobrainer:

---

that's a great list of MPAA members and the pro drm lobby right there, BD+ with unlimited power given to studios is why they are choosing this format, fox deliberately held back releases on hi def format until BD+ was an option so they could put code as part of the third lv countermeasures to monitor ppl's hardware and usage data including unique serial and ip for any players hooked up to the net.

---

everyone in HD-DVD camp is a MPAA backer also so whats your point.What about Microsoft shill Bill Gates who alway want to speak out about DRM but what do you think Vista was? Loaded with DRM & some consumers still have a problem with Vista.There DRM problem is what you call anti-consumer because Microsoft isn't going to scale it down no matter how many issue people was having with it.What you say about Fox was true too some degree but this is the same thing HD-DVD is doing that force there user to hook up to the Net via firmware upgrade.They can see if your using pirated materials on your system & see if your hardware has been temper with.If your not doing anything wrong why worry about it ?

http://www.forbes.com/security/2007/02/1..._0212vista.html

NexGen76
I think the point is HDVD is using "standard" DRM and Sony is using one of their poorly cooked up products(less we forget teh rootkits) to force onto a format are a member of, sorry but I like BR for its potential but BR+ is just plain bad and hurting BR more than it helps it.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

NexGen76
I think the point is HDVD is using "standard" DRM and Sony is using one of their poorly cooked up products(less we forget teh rootkits) to force onto a format are a member of, sorry but I like BR for its potential but BR+ is just plain bad and hurting BR more than it helps it.

---

I understand your point Zippy but its to early to see if BD+ going to be a major issue. BD players use firmware upgrade they can easily fix the issues.If i was a betting man i don't think its going to be no were near the issue people got with Vista thats a nightmare.

Originally posted by nextgen76:

---

Blu-Ray still has more support than HD-DVD even when you do add in the time exclusive deal with paramount.

---

- LMAO.

Is that what it comes down to now, a list of the most names!?
That hardly 'proves' a thing.

The facts are that HD DVD has the most available content and the most exclusive content.

(bear in mind these numbers apply in the USA & they have yet to remove the Viacom/Paramount numbers)

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

http://www.hddvdstats.com/index.php

At 1st glance we can see......

Total available content -

Blu-ray 334

HD DVD 321

Total available exclusive content -

Blu-ray 202

HD DVD 188

But if you remove from the Blu-ray total the number of supposedly 'exclusive Blu-ray titles' which are nothing of the sort and which can be safely sourced on HD DVD internationally (cos HD DVD is region-free everytime)

See here - http://areahd.dvdtiefpreise.com/?p=109

and here - http://forums.highdefdig...d.php?p=45960#post45960

(Over 60 titles, but call it 60 for ease of calculation)

This leaves us with -

Blu-ray genuinely exclusive titles = 142

HD DVD genuinely exclusive titles = 188.

(I have heard of 1 HD DVD exclusive available in Japan on Blu-ray - but it could have been photo-shopped, nothing like 60+ tho)

HD DVD has more exclusive content, by far

Then add those same 60 titles to the total number of titles available to HD DVD and
remove the 30 Paramount movies Blu-ray no longer has and the 3 Dreamworks titles
and we are left with -

Blu-ray available content = 301

HD DVD available content = 381.

HD DVD has more available content, by far

That's the true actual available and exclusive movie content position and by that measure HD DVD is clearly far ahead
(and with a further 120+ HD DVD movies just announced by Viacome/Paramount as they really start to ramp up production that can only grow).

.....and given the major and smaller independent studios using HD DVD (cos the costs are lower and replication is available as opposed to being choked with short supply & low availability with BD) and the amount of supposedly 'Blu-ray exclusive content' potentially available on HD DVD through international publishing & distribution deals, we can see HD DVD also has the largest potential catalogue.

These are the facts that count -

HD DVD offers image and audio quality 2nd to none,

HD DVD has the most available content,

HD DVD has the most exclusive content,

HD DVD has the most potential content,

HD DVD offers a proper range of spec & prices,

HD DVD has the lowest entry-level prices,

HD DVD has fully functioning advanced features,

HD DVD has a complete and functioning spec and

HD DVD's 'high end' players (ie the Toshiba HD XA2) are the same price as the under spec'd absolescent Blu-ray entry level players.

HD DVD does not have the additional DRM sh*te that Blu-ray is attempting to foist on people

.....and HD DVD is not entirely dependent on a game console.

....but if you seriously imagine a list of names beats actual movie content then work away.
lol

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

NexGen76
I think the point is HDVD is using "standard" DRM and Sony is using one of their poorly cooked up products(less we forget teh rootkits) to force onto a format are a member of, sorry but I like BR for its potential but BR+ is just plain bad and hurting BR more than it helps it.

---

I understand your point Zippy but its to early to see if BD+ going to be a major issue. BD players use firmware upgrade they can easily fix the issues.If i was a betting man i don't think its going to be no were near the issue people got with Vista thats a nightmare.

---

easy only if you have online or can beg the manufacture for a CD or even a update.

I can also see Sony claiming in the name of protecting IP/CP nuking newer BR discs on older BR players just because they can, BD+ as it is is not good.

Originally posted by NexGen76 :

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

NexGen76
I think the point is HDVD is using "standard" DRM and Sony is using one of their poorly cooked up products(less we forget teh rootkits) to force onto a format are a member of, sorry but I like BR for its potential but BR+ is just plain bad and hurting BR more than it helps it.

---

I understand your point Zippy but its to early to see if BD+ going to be a major issue. BD players use firmware upgrade they can easily fix the issues.If i was a betting man i don't think its going to be no were near the issue people got with Vista thats a nightmare.

---

so the point is that hollywood want this drm, all hardware manufactures have to agree to cripple their hardware to gain a licence to view it, its mpaa members making and profiting from the drm, as apple did and m$ will follow by turning hollywoods drm against them because of the market share. but what the media fail to tell you is that apple would not adhere to extortionate price fixing put forward by the record companies so as we have seen lately when the media companies tried to rip off the public again apple would not agree and some members are pulling their media from iTunes.

who is the bad company here, the ones lobbying for it knowing what will happen or the ones that will dictate to hollywood because of their restrictive drm that hollywood will force into ALL hardware! Don't try to tell us that hollywood is innocent as they are the ones forcing this DRM virus upon us in the first place.

before you start slammin m$ where exactly in this thread are m$ mentioned fanboy, get your facts straight as to why vista is bloated with DRM. Do you know who the EFF are? this is at least a credible source with out the added sensationalism your link!

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/005121.php

Quote:

---

Today, the PC industry needs Hollywood more than Hollywood needs the PC. Most consumers rely on traditional consumer electronics devices to view DVDs and TV content, but companies like Microsoft are betting on the converged digital home and desperately want a bigger piece of the media device market. Because of the DMCA, Microsoft has to get permission to build devices compatible with Hollywood's DRMed content. So when Hollywood demanded that Microsoft lard Vista with restrictions to access high-def DVD and digital cable content, the software giant was in a weak bargaining position.

---

i will never use vista and will move from xp to Linux if forced to to avoid hollywoods DRM. But you argument about you purchase one copy and then have to purchase multiple copies for other devices is well shouted by sony and is wrong, you own the disc its your to do what you like with it but sony and your self share a narrow-minded, capitalist, minority view to enable sony to sell multiple copies of the same media on different formats.

drm is a price fixing, money grabbing tool, the same as multi-region coding on blu-rays is, piracy is what the lobby shout to get bills passed and convince the world that drm is a necessary evil. its funny that its sony making the drm & shouting aloud in congress about the pirates then Jennifer Pariser, the head of litigation for Sony shows their goals that just moving a track to your mp3 is stealing and you should purchase another copy!

Originally posted by nextgen76:

---

If your not doing anything wrong why worry about it ?

---

spoken like a true lobby nextgen, well done sony would be proud! and this is not ANTI-CONSUMER how exactly?


Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing"

Originally posted by link:

---

Pariser has a very broad definition of "stealing." When questioned by Richard Gabriel, lead counsel for the record labels, Pariser suggested that what millions of music fans do is actually theft. The dirty deed? Ripping your own CDs or downloading songs you already own.

Gabriel asked if it was wrong for consumers to make copies of music which they have purchased, even just one copy. Pariser replied, "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," she said.

Countless studies have shown that the majority of music on portable music players like the iPod comes from sources other than download services. For most people, that music is comprised primarily of songs "ripped" from CD collections to MP3 or some other comparable format. Indeed, most portable music players comes with software (like iTunes) which is designed to facilitate the easy ripping of CDs. According to Pariser's view, this is stealing.

---

what if you don't understand why the disc you just put in the drive fails to work, then get refused a refund because the disc is fine its your hardware that's incompatible, what if your not tech savey enough to download the firmware and burn it to cd, what if soothing happens and the firmware breaks your hardware, DO YOU KNOW THAT APPLYING NEW FIRMWARE YOURSELF VOIDS THE WARRANTY?

unlike blu-ray hd-dvd does not have the same checks as the BD+ drm which does phone home usage data, unique serial number and ip. dont spread fud that hd-dvd incorporates BD+ security measures as it does not hd-dvd drm = aacs, and thats all.

---

nobrainer
I would not worry about the DRM on vista too much the DRM and even activation is pretty broken.

right now vista has more bugs than DRM issues.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

nobrainer
I would not worry about the DRM on vista too much the DRM and even activation is pretty broken.

right now vista has more bugs than DRM issues.

---

i have a copy from work but legacy drivers and compilers are a problem for me on vista. the slow networking and copy, deleting that's really annoying. it looks nice but i want a functioning fast gui and its not vista and that's running a dell xps dual core 2.16 t2600, 4gig geforce 7900 gtx 512mb

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

---

nobrainer
I would not worry about the DRM on vista too much the DRM and even activation is pretty broken.

right now vista has more bugs than DRM issues.

---

i have a copy from work but legacy drivers and compilers are a problem for me on vista. the slow networking and copy, deleting that's really annoying. it looks nice but i want a functioning fast gui and its not vista and that's running a dell xps dual core 2.16 t2600, 4gig geforce 7900 gtx 512mb

---

XP was as bad vista might catch on but MS seems to want to bring out a new OS in 2-3 years.

Well i just hope they can rectify the problem before it gets out of hand :)

Originally posted by borhan9:

---

Well i just hope they can rectify the problem before it gets out of hand :)

---

Anti consumer BD+ is being used, its already out of hand! personally i cant wait for the mpaa to turn on the ICT ( image constraint token ) and reduce the quality of films to all the supposed HD ready screens out there that will make consumers happy!

Quote:

---

Originally posted by borhan9:

---

Well i just hope they can rectify the problem before it gets out of hand :)

---

Anti consumer BD+ is being used, its already out of hand! personally i cant wait for the mpaa to turn on the ICT ( image constraint token ) and reduce the quality of films to all the supposed HD ready screens out there that will make consumers happy!

---

I am not quite there yet to say its out of hand but if it keeps and more movies can not run on BR players and thos players have to be sent in or replaced thats not good, also hopefully the PS3 has BD+ catalog can be updated on the fly through frimware updates.

Also just in defense of BD+ DVD players themselves have had a few issues and needed fixing, probably not on this scale, still for a 800+ player to be sent in for updates or what not is not good.

Vista - the wonder of it all...

http://www.blimptv.net/mostpopularV1.html

Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

Vista - the wonder of it all...

---

Yes, thank you for that informative comment. It is after all Vista's fault that Sony is loading Blu-ray with BD+ which is what this topic was about. But thanks for that left-field jab against Vista that served no purpose, idiot.

lmao @ subpopz - apparently you didn't read all the threads did ya' newb?