Originally posted by Nephilim:

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Basically I'm saying the media companies need to figure out another way.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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So this leaves the industry with two options to see profits for the future. First is to charge even more! Not a good choice. Second option would be to look for ways to protect their media from being distributed illegally and to offer competitive alternatives such as paid downloads etc.

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Neph, I 100% agree with you... Basically what I said isn't it. :-D

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Meh companies are all about profit now'a'days. They do not care about the consumer at all anymore, or atleast thats what it feels like. Many brilliant ideas are knocked off or dropped because the executive deems it un-profitable. The way I see it is if you make something, sell it, and it helps someone, but you don't make a profit. Its still worth it, becuase you made it to help people not for profit.

Communism anybody?

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Originally posted by Nephilim:

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I didn't say anything about any all caps messages.

Here's the deal. This is a forum where ideas and opinions are exchanged in the interest of making interesting and informative reading for all. I looked through your post history and found other examples of pointless and annoying one-line responses like the one we see here. Its like a child cutting into an adult conversation to tell everyone "I went poo poo!". Its irritating and it derails otherwise good conversation so knock it off.

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Thats cool with me, but why so hostile? All you need to say is to "stop please" and I will. Youre so quick to threatn. Youre so adult why not hadle the situating like one.

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Neph. will handle the "situating" like an "adult" when you learn to sPeLl.

Originally posted by glasssd:

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Just make "SHIFT F1" = (goes Blu-Ray Exclusive) as a short cut would same some typing time. I dont get tired of seeing it. Keep the News comming.

I would guess that BBC will do the same soon?.

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I doubt the BBC will budge to one side. I think they are going to stay put in the middle. Until one actually dominates the other i.e BluRay smashes the daylights out of HDDVD and vice versa

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Originally posted by glasssd:

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Just make "SHIFT F1" = (goes Blu-Ray Exclusive) as a short cut would same some typing time. I dont get tired of seeing it. Keep the News comming.

I would guess that BBC will do the same soon?.

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I doubt the BBC will budge to one side. I think they are going to stay put in the middle. Until one actually dominates the other i.e BluRay smashes the daylights out of HDDVD and vice versa

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I thought that the BBC used Warner for distributing or was under Warners umbrella. Thanks for the responce.

The BBC (The British Broadcasting Corporation) are independant.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

Besides I do not think TV License payers of the UK will be happy if the BBC took only one side.

EDIT:You are half right about warner distributing the BBC's releases. The BBC in the UK distribute their releases themselves but in the USA it is done by Warner. But I still doubt the BBC will go one sided even in the USA.

Originally posted by BluRay:

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The BBC (The British Broadcasting Corporation) are independant.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

Besides I do not think TV License payers of the UK will be happy if the BBC took only one side.

EDIT:You are half right about warner distributing the BBC's releases. The BBC in the UK distribute their releases themselves but in the USA it is done by Warner. But I still doubt the BBC will go one sided even in the USA.

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Thanks again for the information. Living in the States, I dont get to see all of the angles. Since WB will not produce BBC productions anymore, do you think the BBC can get someone else to produce HD-DVD for them or will the UK versions be reigon free for people in the States?

@ glasssd

I did not know WB dropped BBC? Anyway why do you need HD for BBC vids, all they are documentries and informational programs.

As far as I know the BBC is sort of relaxed with its DRM.

Also maybe I am not sure but the DVDs are usually region free, anyway this day'n'age does region locking actually matter? A.k.a firmware hacks and stuff.

You could torrent most BBC stuff or watch it on YouTube anyway, I know it sounds silly me telling you this, but I do not think the BBC will follow you up or anything. The BBC is state-owned by the British Government.

I was not meaning that WB dropped BBC but with WB dropping HD-DVD, "would anyone produce a HD-DVD product for BBC outside of the UK."

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Basically what I said isn't it. :-D

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In so many words, yes :)

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Neph, I guess what I was trying to say is that if the media companies could offer downloads etc. at a reasonable price but also be guaranteed that people wont give their downloaded copy to friends, family and anyone they feel like etc. they would be more than happy to offer that.

What I am saying is if you think about it from their end. How can they offer downloadable content and protect their content from being distrubuted for free without DRM? If anyone knows the answer I am 100% sure the media companies would love to use this method. I totally agree that DRM cripples the media industry. However, it is a project in work. Let's hope that the future offers better alternatives.

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They should have got with the program years ago.. Trouble is by sticking to totally outmoded business models and then trying to hold on with DRM and other junk they just succeed in alienating the consumer further.

I pay for a TV licence, but.. because I do not PAY microsoft or apple for a commercial product I am excluded from watching any BBC online timeshifted content.

According to the BBC Royal Charter and Agreement
"free from both political and commercial influence and answers only to its viewers and listeners"

I am a very pissed off BBC customer.. I don't even have a choice not to pay them because I "MIGHT" decide to use a M$ or apple enabled pc on my broadband connection...

That leaves me only one alternative to see a program I have missed at broadcast time.. Yup that's right.. PIRACY. I don't consider it piracy anyway.. I have a tv licence which entitles me to watch BBC tv programs...

The same goes for these disks.. If I pay for one I have bought a licence to access that content in any way I see fit, regardless of what the DCMA may say.. tough titty.. while these businesses continue to use DRM the poor consumer will be forced to find ways to circumvent it. It's a lose lose situation for these greedy bastards, and they deserve our boycott of their products, and our vocal complaints and scorn for attempting to rip us all off.

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varnull, in that situation I feel you! I agree 100%. I just want to make it clear that I am neither for or against DRM. Ok... Hold up... I will explain better. When companies abuse the DRM and use it to milk consumers. Well, that is totally ridiculous and is a clear sign of corporate greed!

However, I do understand if they simply want to stop people distributing their material for free. As I said earlier, companies do have a right to protect their content but to abuse the system and use it to increase profits... Well, that is where they over step the line. The name itself says it all "Digital Rights Management". We as consumers also have rights, so if they don't respect ours then I don't see any reason why we should respect theirs. However, the way I see it is this chain of thought can only bring about resentment and anguish between the media industry and the consumer.

I would much rather see a situation where both the industry and the consumer can respect each others rights. As I said earlier, I really hope the future sees better alternatives.

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Unfortunately it's too late for them.. They have well and truly become mired in lockout and restriction. Even if we pay them they take our rights away. People will still buy things, but they need to perceive value for money. Realistically how many times are you going to watch a $50 film? 2 or 3 in a year maybe? At that rate you may as well go to the cinema (assuming you live alone) 52 times in a year and see all the new films.

I have dvd's I bought (I'm a bargain bin hunter) years back, and I have maybe watched them 3 or 4 times in total.. I'm not complaining because it was £0.99 well spent, but £25 or so.. forget it.. I have way more important things to pay for than a film that will be bargain bucket in 6 months. It may have totally ecaped these businesses notice, but the HUGE market in pirate dvd's is generally from the cams.. while the film is in the cinema.. obviously people are less bothered about quality than they are about seeing the film.. and maybe deciding if it is worth going watching..
I have only seen one film on cam this year that inspired me to go to the cinema.. surfs up.. and no way would I have gone and paid to see that on spec.. I would have missed out on probably the best film of the year.

So who gained from that scenario?? the media companies.. A lot more than the pirates did in that one individual case.

Why don't the film companies release poor quality versions of their movies to sale as soon as the film hits the cinema? most people are happy watching a 480x320 and mono sound cam.. the media companies could make a killing by making and marketing these things at the same price .. £2.. therefore putting the pirates out of business overnight.

I would pay the same to d/l said thing knowing it will be at least reasonable and watchable as give it to some shady f*** who will give me some dodgy cmc disk with fingermarks all over it with no guarantees..

There we go.. a solution to the cam piracy problem the studios whine on and on and on about constantly.. Not f****** rocket science either.

They need to stop the region coding ripoff too.. that encourages back street copying, because consumers who travel or buy films that are only released in other regions are left very often with no alternative apart from hacking their hardware..

Then we come to the other cause.. Different release dates in different parts of the world.. It's only the huge hollywood so called blockbuster movies that suffer from this syndrome.. I want to buy it now because it has been released in the USA.. I can't buy one off amazon us because it's region coded and no use to me.. so I will download or look for a pirate disk seller who has already done the hard work for me.. related to the paragraph above about region coding, but also an issue in it's own right.

And finally.. we come to the can't pay or won't pay.. Some people here would have us believe that people who happen to be not as financially secure as them shouldn't have things because they can't afford them.. put up and shut up.. unfortunately they drop in with the won't pays and work out how to get it for nothing.. so that argument "I'm alright jack.. you are poor so STFU and do without" doesn't wash. It's that attitude that causes crime, and when on a national scale causes irreconcilable social division between the haves and have nots..

conclusion... we need a total rethink of what, as a species, we want for our future.. because the way we are going there isn't going to be one for any but the super rich at this rate, and the poor and deprived will take them out sooner or later too.

(yeah.. you guessed it.. I'm a modern communist)

Anyway.. that is so far off topic it should be a thread all of it's own..

National Geographic.. customer base..pensioners and schoolkids looking for un-age-restricted pictures of tits etc.. good plan, put your media in a format your customer base can't afford.

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Originally posted by varnull:

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the HUGE market in pirate dvd's is generally from the cams.. while the film is in the cinema.. obviously people are less bothered about quality than they are about seeing the film.

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Well... I'm not one of those people that are less bothered. I can't stand those low quality cam recorded flicks. They look and sound like crap! Especially on a decent display (Plasma, LCD etc.) and sound system. I never watch them as I feel they totally destroy the experience. For me a big part of the enjoyment is atmosphere. Watching those dodgy cam releases on a decent home theater system, simply delivers nothing!

It seems what you are saying rings true here as most of the people buying these underground releases are the lower/middle class watching them on CRT TV's... Which as I stated earlier is only compounding the issue further.

Do you seriously pay £25 for a new release DVD? No wonder you are a bit p'd off. They are about $25 - $30 (Australian Dollars) here which is about £12... So about half!

Yes, you are right that we are straying quite a bit from topic so I will leave my final thought...

While you make some good points, it seems we have some different views on this matter. To be completely honest, I am happy with the media industry at the moment and with the newer HD formats developing it's an exciting time. I believe the future will bring about change. The consumer demands change so evolution is inevitable!

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I agree with some of the points made by varnul.

To be honest it costs the pirates money to buy the DVDs and then to copy them etc.

If the media companies were to release their movies online, not only will it cost them nothing (because they own the content alread) but they will SAVE money on some aspects of marketing, and what better way to distribute a movie than the net? I mean you save on packaging, you save the enviorenment because your not using cheap plastic for your DVD covers, its a win win situation, heads I win tails you lose.

You could release a movie for like £5 (approx $10) and still make a profit out of it, why? Because you saved on all the other material expenses. It makes total sense. And I am sure people will pay to download a movie via BitTorrent, LEGALLY, and whats better they could get killer speeds, I mean how hard will it be for those rich boys to create their own tracker, and have a super server seed?

Back to the HD DVD v Blu-ray issue.

I think maybe Blu-ray has the edge, no because of consumers, but because of its DRM. I think because the DRM is near uncrackable at the moment, most big phat companies will like it better. I bet you thats why WB went towards BR.

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It seems what you are saying rings true here as most of the people buying these underground releases are the lower/middle class watching them on CRT TV's... Which as I stated earlier is only compounding the issue further.

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Well when I can afford £400+ for a nice widescreen lcd or plasma I may get one... Currently I am stuck with a 14 year old recycled tatung 24" crt tv with no sound. I use a recycled sharp stereo amp and charity shop speakers (good ones but still repaired by me) I'm the majority sorry to say, where HD is and will remain a nice dream we can never afford. 60% of UK households live at or below the poverty line, and some like me don't even come close to it. My housing costs have more than doubled in the last 18 months, while my income due to the businesses I work for closing has reduced by around 25%.. add to that a 40% increase in the price of fuel and power over the same period of time and you can see the problems many of us are facing.. We don't have the luxury of new things.. just keeping a roof over our heads is hard enough.

I can't justify what is probably more than my annual disposable income on a tv and disk player.. Viva la pirates!!, because they give us what we want at a price we can afford.

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varnull, I totally empathise with your situation. I sincerely hope things start to lift for you soon.

BluRay, did you miss the part in two of my posts where I suggested downloadable content? I completely agree with everything you just said.

I really wish some would understand the point I am trying to make. I am sitting on the fence here. I thought I made it clear that I am not endorsing DRM. I am trying to look at it from an open minded business perspective. The only thing I said against varnull's suggestion for downloads was the quality issue but each to their own.

However, this still doesn't solve the media industries issue for preventing mass distribution of their product for free! Without DRM, can you suggest to me a method they could use that once people downloaded the offered content they couldn't give it to anyone they feel like for free?

Again, just to clarify... I don't agree with DRM! I am only stating the right the companies have to prevent THEFT of their product! This is any persons God given right, why should it be any different for the entertainment media industry?

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@RYU77 no I did not miss those, I just reinforeced them with my own brilliant views =P :D

@varnul I understand how you feel, having a TV in Britain is hard work, especially because you got to pay a f****** TV license for a channel I dont even f***** watch ffs. F*** da BBC.

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Originally posted by varnul:

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conclusion... we need a total rethink of what, as a species, we want for our future.. because the way we are going there isn't going to be one for any but the super rich at this rate, and the poor and deprived will take them out sooner or later too.

(yeah.. you guessed it.. I'm a modern communist)

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LOL! I am a modern Conservative (Of a sort) and I totally agree with everything you've said upto now! The old capitalist property model doesn't work anymore (If indeed it ever did) and maybe, just maybe, there's a shift in thinking towards a more (Dare I say it?) Liberal approach. However, I fear that barring a global natural disaster, an extra-terrestrial created disaster or a catastrophic nuclear war, we have no real chance of escaping from it completely within our lifetimes.

The real problem is that there is no real alternative to the large media corporations holding us to ransom. We have allowed them to become like this by buying into their ethics in the first place. Now just suppose that there were a large open movement within the media sector (Rather like the Open-source software movement that I bleat on about so much). The concept itself wouldn't be that difficult to design and would surely give some of the power back to the consumers.

Have we missed the raal issue

Sony has tried all kinds of CP only to see them go down in flames
You can bet that they threatened and paid big bucks to get some software off the market.
Sony lost the Batamax - VCR war because they tried to control the market price
They didn’t have the leverage and lost

T o insure Blu-Ray wins
Sony bought up a large portion of the media,
Sony Owns Them and now they say we will only provide HD in Blu- Ray.
If one wants an HD program, Sony will dictate and the buying public will PAYthe Sony price.

Yes, copies are being made by individuals but there a big drop in the bucket compared to those from China and other parts of the world

If you want to see Sony get filthy rich just go with Blu-Ray and pay the price

Anyone else have an educated post? ;-)

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Some of us are going to need Cliff Notes to all these huge posts if we want to keep up :P

Originally posted by Yet Another Poster:

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Have we missed the raal issue

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Do you mean "real"? Or is "raal" an actual word?

:D

must be a spammer :lol: http://www.raalribbon.com/aboutus.htm

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Originally posted by Dr_West:

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Originally posted by Yet Another Poster:

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Have we missed the raal issue

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Do you mean "real"? Or is "raal" an actual word?

:D

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That is why I made my post after his... It was meant to be cheeky! :-P

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The company has said it will not be releasing a press release but has confirmed all reports that it will be dropping HD DVD. The move will go into effect beginning in April with the release of "Sharkwater."

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Well at least they did not deny the fact and just said that they are making the switch i guess this is wat i like to see no beating around the bush just being straight from the get go i wonder if other people can take note and follow the footsteps :P