Yes, the war is over, and i firmly believe that bickering about the supremacy of one format over the over is redundant. I believe each format had thier own strengths and thier own weaknesses.

Not to mention that eventually the winning (deepest pockets, most strategic) format too will be replaced with something else.

This is an excellent opportunity for HD DVD enthusiasts to pick up good quality players for upconversion for dirt cheap.

The format squabble lasted long enough to promote a small amount of competition which had an effect on pricing in consumer's favor. I believe we can expect to see prices going up on the Blu Ray side of things while HD DVD's players and movies will be sold at blow-out prices.

Personally, i still can't call one format superior to the other.

7thsinger is right. Any discussion of superiority right now is moot. redundant, and useless.

OTOH I do understand dblbogey7's and error5's point of view. As a fellow HD DVD owner I can see how they can feel that way after Nishida-san's statements. It's one thing to try to save face but it's also another thing to turn your back on your supporters.

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OTOH I do understand dblbogey7's and error5's point of view. As a fellow HD DVD owner I can see how they can feel that way after Nishida-san's statements. It's one thing to try to save face but it's also another thing to turn your back on your supporters

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In complete agreement. That's a horrible thing to say to everyone who
was so faithfully was supportive.

I don't see Blu-Ray movies going up in price just because of HD-DVD's retirement.There are competing formats such as HD cable,Sat and Digital Downloads that will get my money if Blu-Ray prices itself beyond value.
I wanted HD-DVD to win but kind'a knew that Sony was outgunning Toshiba in many ways so got a PS3.Using it as a movie player, not for games at the moment though.Says a lot about the PS3!

Originally posted by dblbogey7:

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As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".

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Amen brother, my thoughts exactly.

Originally posted by Luda:

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It seemed like Toshiba would do anything to win, even pay off other companies.

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Hmm, isn't this what Sony (BDA) did also?

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HD DVD movie production is being dropped with indecent haste.

Damned shame.

I find it hard to believe that 1 million+ HD DVD owners (worldwide) are not a viable market.

Thank God the players can do an excellent job with SD DVD and that there are 430+ HD DVD movies available
(that is in western markets there are around 800 titles worldwide).

It's also time to be glad that the emphasis with HD DVD was always more skewed towards the genuine classic then the most recent forgettable & worthless adolescent male kid's fav summer action hit BS.

But those companies that would now have us head off for Blu-ray have a weird set of values.

Especially when treated like this why on earth would anyone 'early adopt' the Blu-ray format?

They don't even have a range of mass-market friendly final spec players to offer.
It's also perfectly possible that 2 formats lost this little tussle......it's just that Blu-ray hasn't realised it and fallen over yet.

I'll be using every other alternative and avoiding Blu-ray myself.

If you want the DRM nightmare that Blu-ray is up to it's neck in then work away.
I just don't want it or need it and there are perfectly acceptable alternatives.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:

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1 HD-DVD layer =17gb

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Let's not cause anymore confusion for HD DVD. It actually has a capacity of 15gb per single layer. ;)

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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HD DVD is 51GB, Blu-ray is 50GB so how can you say there is more capacity?

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I'm sorry DVDBack23, but I think we need to clarify a few things here.

The TL51 disc spec was approved by the DVD forum but never saw the light of day with any movie release. Hence it's considered vaporware. The fact is sevral insiders at avsforums admitted that replication of these discs was going very badly that a commercial release was just not feasible at this time because of quality issues. (This actual quote was posted here at one of the threads - I can look it up later.)

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HD DVD had superior audio.

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This is simply not true. Dual format releases have the same audio quality given the same encode. Plus BluRay has the capacity to include an uncompressed PCM soundtrack which is bit for bit exactly the same as the studio master and yields exactly the same result as a losslesssly encoded one.

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HD DVD's "DRM" wasn't so crippling that it can even make your legit retail BDs unplayable like BD+ does.

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I know about the playback issues of BD+ discs with the LG BH100 and the Samsung 1200 but these are firmware related problems. For me. I don't even know which movies have BD+ becuase I just pop them in my player and they all play without a problem. I have yet to see a report where a BD+ playback problem is not firmware-related.

Now dblbogey7 has the correct sentiment:

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As an HD DVD owner/user I feel like the Toshiba CEO just gave me the finger and a big, loud "F-U".

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This new statement from the Toshiba CEO advocating inferior technology is one huge slap in the face to all of us who bought HD DVD players and movies. Upconversion and low-bitrate downloads - give me a break. This really leaves an extremely bitter taste in the mouth and makes me want to take my Toshiba XA2 and A1 players out to my driveway and run them over with my car.

Sorry for the rant but I just had to vent my anger at Toshiba's CEO.

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Ok for the 3 layer disc, fair point. As for the audio, i had meant to say that audio support (except for high end $2000+ blu-ray players) was better on HD DVD from the start. Fair points though error5, my statements were a tad bold.

Blu-Ray may have won the HD disk format war but I'm expecting an
almighty GROAN when the Holographic Disk SUPER-HD war begins.
And NO,I don't believe people will replace actual movie-disks/tapes for Digital Downloads.I prefer physical media in a box like most ardent movie collectors.Old Skool maybe but my ISP is the limiting factor,especialy the old copper cable network that will never see an upgrade to Japan's state-of-the-art gigabit download capacity anytime soon.

For those of you still wondering why Blu-ray one, it was inevitable from the beginning.

Specs don't matter to companies, nor does capacity, or nearly anything that matters to us consumers (Not that I'm saying HD-DVD is better than Blu-ray, nor am I saying it's worse).

The fact is, HD-DVD forced a standard new codec that proved to be costly for media moguls. Blu-ray used the old mpeg codec that everyone was already used to with DVD. It was cheaper for the companies to just use the technology they already had to produce Blu-ray, rather than spend that much more to learn and develop using new technology.

Originally posted by XEnigmaX:

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For those of you still wondering why Blu-ray one, it was inevitable from the beginning.

Specs don't matter to companies, nor does capacity, or nearly anything that matters to us consumers (Not that I'm saying HD-DVD is better than Blu-ray, nor am I saying it's worse).

The fact is, HD-DVD forced a standard new codec that proved to be costly for media moguls. Blu-ray used the old mpeg codec that everyone was already used to with DVD. It was cheaper for the companies to just use the technology they already had to produce Blu-ray, rather than spend that much more to learn and develop using new technology.

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I have a hard time citing this as the reason Blu Ray won this little squabble.

While you may be right in the codec issue, i feel that this had little to do with the victory, or the victor.

It was a strategy game, and the Blu Ray camp plays better chess. Nothing more and nothing less.

Production costs didn't matter.

Pricing for consumers didn't matter.

What mattered is the money that changed hands enough times and in enough places to buy out the studio(s) market.

Again, i have yet to be able find enough cause to call either format superior.

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I still say the best format lost in regard to specs.

Originally posted by XEnigmaX:

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The fact is, HD-DVD forced a standard new codec that proved to be costly for media moguls.

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- HD DVD & Blu-ray mandated the exact same 3 codecs.

VC-1, AVC & MPEG2.

I'm just glad the format war is over, it was stupid from the get go and someone was bound to lose leaving the consumer in a lurch. The Blu-Ray fans need to stop gloating and the HD-DVD fans needs to stop whining. What makes/made one format superior for one person might have made it weaker for someone else that is what is so great about having a choice...if you like the PS3 go buy one, if you don't buy a 360 and if they don't suit you go get a wii but there isn't any reason to nit pick others for choosing what works best for their needs.

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i think they ought to have to buy them all back,Toshiba isn't that stupid,are they?

I actually own a player from both formats. I have since last November. I have to throw in my 2 cents worth. Being in the position to compare both, I am glad that I do own the Blu for all the available title ( and more to come with the war being over). But the Toshiba is definately the better player. The menus are easier to use, and the picture/sound is leap years ahead of the Panasonic. I wish that the better format had won, but it was not meant to be. What I am really pissed about is that Sony never finalized the format before releasing it to the public. Now, with profile 2 coming out this fall, I'm left with a limited, low end player. I hate Sony for this.

Sony deserves everyone's contempt because of the contempt they show their customers. Prime example, about the only onsolescence proof (maybe) Blu Ray player around for merely too much money (as opposed to hideously too much money) is the PS3. Sony pushes the fact that it is a good Blu ray movie player. But it does not have an IR port for a remote. That means forget about about using ANY universal remote including the excellent Harmony remotes. You get to but Sony's cheap but adequate BT remote. There is a third party NYKO IR/USB adapter adapter remote that you can teach your Harmony the commands from, but it is not full feature.

Would have cst a very few dollars to include an Ir receiver in every PS3 and make it a far more practical movie player. Did Sony do it?

Another thing, even the bottom of the line Toshiba A2 sends high definition Dolby Digital out the optical port as DTS to give you better sound (I have one and the shockingly better sound vs. just Dolby Digital was almost as big a jump as DVD to HD video quality.) So what does Sony do with their PS3? They leave out that very nice little feature. You want great sound, get a new receiver with HDMI audio. Thanks, Sony.

Finally, the user interface for playing movies on a PS3 is just annoying as can be compared to the simple/logical interface of the Toshiba A2.

Second finally, I bought one PS3 game, Blazing Angels. Popped it in, it plays vdeo, but no sound out the optical port. Apparently you have to have an HDMI audio-enabled receiver because Sony did not care enough to send the sound out the optical port.

Thanks, Sony.

Sony deserves everyone's contempt because of the contempt they show their customers. Prime example, about the only onsolescence proof (maybe) Blu Ray player around for merely too much money (as opposed to hideously too much money) is the PS3. Sony pushes the fact that it is a good Blu ray movie player. But it does not have an IR port for a remote. That means forget about about using ANY universal remote including the excellent Harmony remotes. You get to but Sony's cheap but adequate BT remote. There is a third party NYKO IR/USB adapter adapter remote that you can teach your Harmony the commands from, but it is not full feature.

Would have cst a very few dollars to include an Ir receiver in every PS3 and make it a far more practical movie player. Did Sony do it?

Another thing, even the bottom of the line Toshiba A2 sends high definition Dolby Digital out the optical port as DTS to give you better sound (I have one and the shockingly better sound vs. just Dolby Digital was almost as big a jump as DVD to HD video quality.) So what does Sony do with their PS3? They leave out that very nice little feature. You want great sound, get a new receiver with HDMI audio. Thanks, Sony.

Finally, the user interface for playing movies on a PS3 is just annoying as can be compared to the simple/logical interface of the Toshiba A2.

Second finally, I bought one PS3 game, Blazing Angels. Popped it in, it plays vdeo, but no sound out the optical port. Apparently you have to have an HDMI audio-enabled receiver because Sony did not care enough to send the sound out the optical port.

Thanks, Sony.

Originally posted by nopcbs:

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You want great sound, get a new receiver with HDMI audio. Thanks, Sony.

Apparently you have to have an HDMI audio-enabled receiver because Sony did not care enough to send the sound out the optical port.

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How to get audio thru the optical port for movies and games:

> On the XMB got to SETTINGS
> Select SOUND SETTINGS
> Select AUDIO OUTPUT SETTINGS
> Select DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
> Check ALL the Boxes (Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, AACS, LPCM etc.)
> Press RIGHT directional button
> Press X (Enter)

Now you're all set.

No need to buy an HDMI receiver.

Thanks, but I already had to do this to get sound out of my movies. That worked. Still no sound from the Blazing Angels game, though.

The Marantz SR4002 receiver with HDMI audio is on order, as a result.

Thanks, Sony.

- nopcbs

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Originally posted by nopcbs:

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You want great sound, get a new receiver with HDMI audio. Thanks, Sony.

Apparently you have to have an HDMI audio-enabled receiver because Sony did not care enough to send the sound out the optical port.

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How to get audio thru the optical port for movies and games:

> On the XMB got to SETTINGS
> Select SOUND SETTINGS
> Select AUDIO OUTPUT SETTINGS
> Select DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)
> Check ALL the Boxes (Dolby Digital 5.1, DTS 5.1, AACS, LPCM etc.)
> Press RIGHT directional button
> Press X (Enter)

Now you're all set.

No need to buy an HDMI receiver.

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All true error5 but my problem with Blu-Ray and not the PS3 is that most of my Blu-Ray disks have their audio in the latest formats such as DTS Master and lossless Dolby Digital.If you don't have the decoder you'll get AC3 / Dolby Digital 2.0 or Stereo PCM.I have just one disk with Dolby Digital 5.1 and as my amp is Dolby Digital only, I'm left with Movies sounding worse than my DVD's which have Dolby 5.1!They do look excellent though.
I wish the PS3 could use that CELL chip to transcode in realtime to any surround format you choose,that would be ACE.

The PS3 doesn't upscale 480i/P video or weird DivX resolutions to 1080P either unlike the 360 which upscales anything and everything to 1080P through Component cable.
So I hope they get the PS3 to upscale everything, I'm sure it could handle the workload.
One more thing that I want the PS3 to do is handle a lot more MPEG4 video codecs.I have camcorder and camera video that records in an MPEG4 format but the audio is either adpcm or a crappy raw 22khz audio.I don't really want to transcode it either so if the PS3 could handle these weird MPEG4 formats then I would be happy.
I was thinking of putting linux on PS3, maybe that could do more in the future?!?Currently,my 360 can handle more video codecs than the PS3,plus it can also stream huge HD 1080P video files over the network unlike the PS3 which has size limits.
The PS3 and 360 both need updates to be worthy media centres but they are getting there slowly.

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Toshiba CEO Atsutoshi Nishida has finally talked out about his company's decision to drop HD DVD and went as far as to say that the format did not "stand a chance" following Warner's decision to drop the format for Blu-ray.

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I think this is all CEO's stances. Warners decision was a decisive one that effected all players and well at least now we can really invest in the format that has a future ahead of it self.

Now that Blu-ray is the next gen format, Sony better surpass the codecs that HD-DVD used or buy out the full copyright to those codecs because I don't want to watch movies at MPEG-2, we have DVD for that.

Originally posted by locobrown:

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Now that Blu-ray is the next gen format, Sony better surpass the codecs that HD-DVD used or buy out the full copyright to those codecs because I don't want to watch movies at MPEG-2, we have DVD for that.

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BluRay has been using AVC/MPEG4 and VC1 for more than a year now. A few new releases are still in MPEG2 but majority are coming out in AVC/MPEG4.

Check the technical specs on each title reviewd and you'll see:

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/reviews.html

From blu-raystats.com less than 1/3 of all releases so far are MPEG2:

MPEG4/AVC - 41.2%
VC-1 - 27.3%
MPEG2 - 31.6%

http://www.blu-raystats.com/

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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BluRay has been using AVC/MPEG4 and VC1 for more than a year now. A few new releases are still in MPEG2 but majority are coming out in AVC/MPEG4.

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That's correct...

...and if you look at the first 3 1/2 months of 2008 - out of 101 releases:

AVC/MPEG4 - 65.43%
VC1 - 30.86%
MPEG2 - 3.71%

Everyone seems to be getting away from MPEG2.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/stats.php?OrderBy=Codec&Date=2008

Originally posted by locobrown:

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buy out the full copyright to those codecs

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You don't buy the copyright to a codec. Instead, you pay a royalty to the codec's patent holders every time you use the codec to author a title.

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I have a HD-DVD player and 70 titles, and I was real happy with my HD-DVD then angry when the format faded, and happy again and went Amazon.com crazy buying movies at reduced prices, I continue to do so. I just expect more from Sony, now that Blu-ray almost single handedly derailed HD-DVD.