This is a prime example of what happens when the country is run by a bunch of slimy, money-hungry politicians who are in turn run by slimy, money-hungry corporations.

This country is no longer a democracy... it's a corporacy.

---

If Reps. Lamar Smith, R-Texas, and Howard Berman, D-Calif want to pass this BS bill, then they should go to China where they still have communism !

Can anyone recommend a good country to move? Also does anyone have a few hundred grand I could borrow so I can move?

---

Maybe if enough people would move some never-head-of minor Pacific country, such as Tonga, we could relatively easily set the laws to grant pretty good fair use rights :-)

---

The FBI dosnt have enough to do it only to them months to catch the sniper in DC and the mess at ruby ridge, waco, and scores of things like terroist arnt inportant enough for our goverment so now there setting their sites on all those over hormoned14 year olds who have a copy of debbie does dallason their hard drives . how about they do something like catch Bin laden or Sadam or hey how about stopping another Enron befor it happens... only here in the USA can a fedral body chose who or why they want to go after... arnt we the people in charge damn .. with more of this we;ll all be filtered like china or north Korea soon. We need the information guy from Iraq to tell us that its ok or something because the more you mix goverment and big biz together the more you end up with a bad version of Big Brother. Ps its the big biz that got Bush into the white house in the first place so why wouldn't they go after the small lonely poor folk who are just tired of paying to much for cds and dvds in the first place. remmber if hollywood would cut the cost (and the profit margin) then maybe no one would copy it in the first place. 62million for a june opening thats what the Hulk brough in so when is enough between the movie the rentals the merchendice and the endless stream of commercales for produts that have nothing to do with the movie, they have spoon feed america to death with their crap and hang on everyone next month it'll be some thing new till December when the next lord of the rings comes out......

FBI = fairly Bi-est Intrest

Let's face it P-2-peeps, the main reason big bro-poration wins is because they spend billions of dollars each year to learn more and more about what makes us tick, and all we have to do is open a bible, or for none believers a psychology book. The world was designed to work hand in hand, regardless of what you think, we need each other. Who gives the corporations there power? We do!! without us (the common worker) there would not be one single product on the market, You think Bill Gates is going to roll his sleeves up and jump into a assembly line and make his product to sell to the sheep of the world (common workers)? We have and allways will hold the power. What would happen if all the workers of the world truely unite and shut down all the factories, CHAOS for one, but would you say that we would get there attention, would you also say that we could renegotiate every buisness contract in the world to make it fair for both the rich and the poor. Wonderfull idea, only corporations spend billions of dollars to know our addictions and how to feed them, to keep us down, hell now there even controlling when we get a hardon (viagra). Divide and Conquer people, the main rule of warfare. Solution: Get up off our ignorate, petty, addictive, whinning asses and unit as one against the greed and rewrite the rules, think that is possible?

---

Blackbar sounds good , but and there always is one "how"?????????? ........the best thing that could happen is a campaine agaist the loudest backers of the riaa like sony or mgm or who ever they may be if we get them to back out then the riaa losses its strenght. most of us alone cant even make a dission on whats best for us... but if the group effort stops the constant issuse of who is right then we all win how about everyone we all as group know emails sony and says drop your price on cds or well quite buying them then maybe they will hear us but if only one does it then we indepently are crazy..... united we stand divided we fall old words that still run true today.... so pick a target and have a reason and we'll all get on the bandwagon hey 2 years ago we downed theemail system on Newt every morning.... and all we said was that he was an ass.... but 5000 emails at the same time every 24 hours wreaks havoc....

I agree w/OOKAMI, espcially we have about million people jobless in this country.

Seems to me they were not screaming at all when the advent of tape recording came out and then of course the vcr's. All of a sudden now it's an extreme emergency .... please give me a break. Probably everyone in theis forum and people that read it have one of those devices. So what's it all about ... Ookami has it right ... they don't care about control ... it's money. As far as programs go, you run into the same thing. Not a single program fits all your needs in any given area. You need to buy 3 or 4 to get the job done. How do you know the proggy you just bought will do the job. If it does it don't for long because of technological avances. Nuff said...

Seems to me they were not screaming at all when the advent of tape recording came out and then of course the vcr's. All of a sudden now it's an extreme emergency .... please give me a break. Probably everyone in theis forum and people that read it have one of those devices. So what's it all about ... Ookami has it right ... they don't care about control ... it's money. As far as programs go, you run into the same thing. Not a single program fits all your needs in any given area. You need to buy 3 or 4 to get the job done. How do you know the proggy you just bought will do the job. If it does it don't for long because of technological avances. Nuff said...

bottom line is people are stupid and desire power over freedom. regardless of what happens with this bill people will still share files over P2Ps. you just have to be smarter about it, using proxies and most likely encryption software to be safe. but if the corporation or even the feds come after the people it will be one hell of an uprising thats for damn sure. i smell boycots and instead of hippies we'll have nerds and hackers taking to the streets.

Fact is music groups make their money off of concerts where the companies make it from cd sales. Still you do have groups like Metallica who own their own production company and cry because they want more. Truely a sad situation.

Wise words Blackbar, but they have been spoken before.

You have to realize that we, the people that actually know and follow what´s happening in Industry vs. Pirates-war, are only a small fraction of the people that the matter concerns. Getting us "geeks" organized into a campaign or boycott would already receive attention, but even that is very difficult.

Then you think about the masses. I´m sure a lot of people wouldn´t mind getting their basic consumer rights back and maybe even getting cheaper CD´s and DVD´s, but reaching the masses and getting them organized, that would be an insane task.

I think music, movies and software companies have already lots of money..........p2p sharing is the best thing stop them from getting richer and we from getting pourer.....THEY'LL NEVER STOP P2P SHARING !

I got 2 emails already from my isp (cogeco) with a forwarded letter from columbia pictures inc:
________________________________________________________
Dear Subscriber

Cogeco Cable Inc. has received a letter that alleges that activities associated with your Internet service are infringing copyright in certain copyright protected material in which the copyright is owned or exclusively licensed.

Activities that infringe copyright are prohibited under Cogeco's High Speed Internet Service Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy which establish actions Cogeco Cable can take if the situation is not remedied. For more details please refer to section 17 and Schedule A of this Agreement which is available at http://www.cogeco.com/aup

The forwarded email provided at the end of this message indicated the specific details of this alleged activity. If you have any questions or concerns about the statements included in the email below, please contact the complainant directly.

For further information on Canada's copyright regulations visit:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/new-e.html

For information on disabling upload capabilities on common Peer-To-Peer applications visit:
http://home.cogeco.net/p2p

Regards

Cogeco Network Security
http://www.cogeco.com/aup
1-888-558-2233

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Cogeco Cable Solutions
> 950 Syscon Drive
>
>
>
>
>
> Re: Unauthorized Use of Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc. Property
> Notice ID: 502311
> Notice Date: 2 Aug 2004 20:26:24 GMT
> Case ID: 2303018
>
> Dear Sir or Madam:
>
> "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.", Inc. and its affiliated companies are the exclusive owners of copyrights in motion pictures and television, including the property listed below.
>
> It has come to our attention that Cogeco Cable Solutions is the service provider for the IP address listed below, from which unauthorized copying and distribution (downloading, uploading, file serving, file "swapping" or other similar activities) of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc."'s (property)(s) listed below is taking place. We believe that the Internet access of the user engaging in this infringement is provided by Cogeco Cable Solutions or a downstream service provider who purchases this connecti
vity from Cogeco Cable Solutions.
>
> This unauthorized copying and distribution constitutes copyright infringement under Section 106 of the U.S. Copyright Act . Depending upon the type of service Cogeco Cable Solutions is providing to this IP address, it may have legal and/or equitable liability if it does not expeditiously remove or disable access to the (property)(s) listed below, or if it fails to implement a policy that provides for termination of subscribers who are repeat infringers (see, 17 U.S.C. §512).
>
> Despite the above, "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc." believes that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.
>
> The undersigned has a good faith belief that use of the (property)(s) in the manner described herein is not authorized by "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.", its agent or the law. The information contained in this notification is accurate. Under penalty of perjury, the undersigned is authorized to act on behalf of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc." with respect to this matter.
>
> Please be advised that this letter is not and is not intended to be a complete statement of the facts or law as they may pertain to this matter or of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc."'s positions, rights or remedies, legal or equitable, all of which are specifically reserved.
>
> Very truly yours,
>
> Sarah Bergman
> Compliance Manager
> BayTSP, Inc.
> PO Box 1314
> Los Gatos, CA 95031
>
> v: 408-341-2300
> f: 408-341-2399
>
> *pgp public key is available on the key server at ldap://keyserver.pgp.com
> Note: The information transmitted in this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.
>
> Notice ID:502311
>
>
>
> Title: 50 First Dates
> Infringement Source: DirectConnect
> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 21 Jul 2004 00:47:31 GMT
> Recent Infringment Timestamp: 21 Jul 2004 00:47:31 GMT
> Infringer Username: [HUN]Sany2136
> Infringing Filename: 50.First.Dates.DVDRip.XViD-ALLiANCE.AVI
> Infringing Filesize: 734205952
> Infringers IP Address: 24.150.186.3
> Infringers DNS Name: d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net
> Infringing URL: dc://207.234.145.184/[HUN]Sany2136
> Notice ID: 502311
>
> Title: Hellboy
> Infringement Source: DirectConnect
> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 1 Aug 2004 04:50:51 GMT
> Recent Infringment Timestamp: 1 Aug 2004 07:50:23 GMT
> Infringer Username: Frakk
> Infringing Filename: Hellboy.DVDRip.XviD-iRB.AVI
> Infringing Filesize: 735846400
> Infringers IP Address: 24.150.186.3
> Infringers DNS Name: d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net
> Infringing URL: dc://193.6.50.47/Frakk
> Notice ID: 502311
>
> - ---Start ACNS XML
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
> <Infringement xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="http://mpto.unistudios.com/xml/Infringement_schema.xsd">
> <Case>
> <ID>2303018</ID>
> <Status>Recidivist</Status>
> </Case>
> <Complainant>
> <Entity>BayTSP, Inc. for Sony Pictures</Entity>
> <Contact>Sarah Bergman, Compliance Manager</Contact>
> <Address>P.O. Box 1314, Los Gatos, CA 95031 USA</Address>
> <Phone>408-341-2300,408-341-2399</Phone>
> <Email>compliance@copyright-compliance.com</Email>
> </Complainant>
> <Service_Provider>
> <Entity>Cogeco Cable Solutions</Entity>
> <Contact></Contact>
> <Address>950 Syscon Drive</Address>
> <Email>abuse@cogeco.net</Email>
> </Service_Provider>
> <Source>
> <TimeStamp>2004-07-21T00:47:31Z</TimeStamp>
> <IP_Address>24.150.186.3</IP_Address>
> <DNS_Name>d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net</DNS_Name>
> <Type>DirectConnect</Type>
> <UserName>[HUN]Sany2136</UserName>
> <Number_Files>2</Number_Files>
> <Deja_Vu>Yes</Deja_Vu>
> </Source>
> <Content>
> <Item>
> <Title>50 First Dates</Title>
> <FileName>50.First.Dates.DVDRip.XViD-ALLiANCE.avi</FileName>
> <FileSize>734205952</FileSize>
> <URL>dc://207.234.145.184/[HUN]Sany2136</URL>
> <Type>Video</Type>
> </Item>
> <Item>
> <Title>Hellboy</Title>
> <FileName>Hellboy.DVDRip.XviD-iRB.avi</FileName>
> <FileSize>735846400</FileSize>
> <URL>dc://193.6.50.47/Frakk</URL>
> <Type>Video</Type>
> </Item>
> </Content>
> </Infringement>
> - ---End ACNS XML
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 8.0
>
> iD8DBQFBDvea8hjgiIPc43cRAi4dAJ0V8IgoNJKkS5ovS94QMd6kOsVMogCfdgsW
> YRhAupBLOM1Qo+Bs4fhrTS0=
> =zlYG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
________________________________________________________

this is the second one, with both of my downloads in it, and all the info. i dont know how they got this, but the date is about a week later than i actually downloaded hellboy... my parents got this letter and (obviously) freaked out on me, and it was the second time also.. i really dont know why the F they are after people like us, instead of the people who actually rip the dvd-s and stuff, maybe because this is the easiest way....
I agree with u mystic, that they want their F money(not like they wouldnt have more than they can fit in their wallet) and all these agencies spend so much on anti-piracy movements, instead of lowering their prices so more people would go and buy them. the only thing they dont realize that by sending emails and threatening people like us is not going to stop piracy at all. they shut napster off years ago, and many thought that downloading music on the net is over.... they were wrong as we see, even more p2p programs and servers came out, better and better. what have they achived? absolutely nothing. they all can go and F themselves while they r catching 14yrs old girls downloading brittney spears from kazaa and so on, but they will never ever going to get anything out of it. the only thing that is going to help them is to realize the right things to do, or just give up because piracy cannot be stopped, not until people like us can afford to buy their product and support the real creators, not the record companies and all other associations that set the rules and laws. i have been thinking about an "official" forum that deals with piracy problems that could be shown to the companies and all those M.F.-s who r responsible for all this, and try to work something out, if anyone is interested pls drop me a line

I got 2 emails already from my isp (cogeco) with a forwarded letter from columbia pictures inc:
________________________________________________________
Dear Subscriber

Cogeco Cable Inc. has received a letter that alleges that activities associated with your Internet service are infringing copyright in certain copyright protected material in which the copyright is owned or exclusively licensed.

Activities that infringe copyright are prohibited under Cogeco's High Speed Internet Service Agreement and Acceptable Use Policy which establish actions Cogeco Cable can take if the situation is not remedied. For more details please refer to section 17 and Schedule A of this Agreement which is available at http://www.cogeco.com/aup

The forwarded email provided at the end of this message indicated the specific details of this alleged activity. If you have any questions or concerns about the statements included in the email below, please contact the complainant directly.

For further information on Canada's copyright regulations visit:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/new-e.html

For information on disabling upload capabilities on common Peer-To-Peer applications visit:
http://home.cogeco.net/p2p

Regards

Cogeco Network Security
http://www.cogeco.com/aup
1-888-558-2233

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Cogeco Cable Solutions
> 950 Syscon Drive
>
>
>
>
>
> Re: Unauthorized Use of Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc. Property
> Notice ID: 502311
> Notice Date: 2 Aug 2004 20:26:24 GMT
> Case ID: 2303018
>
> Dear Sir or Madam:
>
> "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.", Inc. and its affiliated companies are the exclusive owners of copyrights in motion pictures and television, including the property listed below.
>
> It has come to our attention that Cogeco Cable Solutions is the service provider for the IP address listed below, from which unauthorized copying and distribution (downloading, uploading, file serving, file "swapping" or other similar activities) of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc."'s (property)(s) listed below is taking place. We believe that the Internet access of the user engaging in this infringement is provided by Cogeco Cable Solutions or a downstream service provider who purchases this connecti
vity from Cogeco Cable Solutions.
>
> This unauthorized copying and distribution constitutes copyright infringement under Section 106 of the U.S. Copyright Act . Depending upon the type of service Cogeco Cable Solutions is providing to this IP address, it may have legal and/or equitable liability if it does not expeditiously remove or disable access to the (property)(s) listed below, or if it fails to implement a policy that provides for termination of subscribers who are repeat infringers (see, 17 U.S.C. §512).
>
> Despite the above, "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc." believes that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.
>
> The undersigned has a good faith belief that use of the (property)(s) in the manner described herein is not authorized by "Columbia Pictures Industries, Inc.", its agent or the law. The information contained in this notification is accurate. Under penalty of perjury, the undersigned is authorized to act on behalf of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc." with respect to this matter.
>
> Please be advised that this letter is not and is not intended to be a complete statement of the facts or law as they may pertain to this matter or of "Columbia Pictures Industies, Inc."'s positions, rights or remedies, legal or equitable, all of which are specifically reserved.
>
> Very truly yours,
>
> Sarah Bergman
> Compliance Manager
> BayTSP, Inc.
> PO Box 1314
> Los Gatos, CA 95031
>
> v: 408-341-2300
> f: 408-341-2399
>
> *pgp public key is available on the key server at ldap://keyserver.pgp.com
> Note: The information transmitted in this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, reproduction, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers.
>
> Notice ID:502311
>
>
>
> Title: 50 First Dates
> Infringement Source: DirectConnect
> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 21 Jul 2004 00:47:31 GMT
> Recent Infringment Timestamp: 21 Jul 2004 00:47:31 GMT
> Infringer Username: [HUN]Sany2136
> Infringing Filename: 50.First.Dates.DVDRip.XViD-ALLiANCE.AVI
> Infringing Filesize: 734205952
> Infringers IP Address: 24.150.186.3
> Infringers DNS Name: d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net
> Infringing URL: dc://207.234.145.184/[HUN]Sany2136
> Notice ID: 502311
>
> Title: Hellboy
> Infringement Source: DirectConnect
> Initial Infringement Timestamp: 1 Aug 2004 04:50:51 GMT
> Recent Infringment Timestamp: 1 Aug 2004 07:50:23 GMT
> Infringer Username: Frakk
> Infringing Filename: Hellboy.DVDRip.XviD-iRB.AVI
> Infringing Filesize: 735846400
> Infringers IP Address: 24.150.186.3
> Infringers DNS Name: d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net
> Infringing URL: dc://193.6.50.47/Frakk
> Notice ID: 502311
>
> - ---Start ACNS XML
> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
> <Infringement xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xsi:noNamespaceSchemaLocation="http://mpto.unistudios.com/xml/Infringement_schema.xsd">
> <Case>
> <ID>2303018</ID>
> <Status>Recidivist</Status>
> </Case>
> <Complainant>
> <Entity>BayTSP, Inc. for Sony Pictures</Entity>
> <Contact>Sarah Bergman, Compliance Manager</Contact>
> <Address>P.O. Box 1314, Los Gatos, CA 95031 USA</Address>
> <Phone>408-341-2300,408-341-2399</Phone>
> <Email>compliance@copyright-compliance.com</Email>
> </Complainant>
> <Service_Provider>
> <Entity>Cogeco Cable Solutions</Entity>
> <Contact></Contact>
> <Address>950 Syscon Drive</Address>
> <Email>abuse@cogeco.net</Email>
> </Service_Provider>
> <Source>
> <TimeStamp>2004-07-21T00:47:31Z</TimeStamp>
> <IP_Address>24.150.186.3</IP_Address>
> <DNS_Name>d150-186-3.home.cgocable.net</DNS_Name>
> <Type>DirectConnect</Type>
> <UserName>[HUN]Sany2136</UserName>
> <Number_Files>2</Number_Files>
> <Deja_Vu>Yes</Deja_Vu>
> </Source>
> <Content>
> <Item>
> <Title>50 First Dates</Title>
> <FileName>50.First.Dates.DVDRip.XViD-ALLiANCE.avi</FileName>
> <FileSize>734205952</FileSize>
> <URL>dc://207.234.145.184/[HUN]Sany2136</URL>
> <Type>Video</Type>
> </Item>
> <Item>
> <Title>Hellboy</Title>
> <FileName>Hellboy.DVDRip.XviD-iRB.avi</FileName>
> <FileSize>735846400</FileSize>
> <URL>dc://193.6.50.47/Frakk</URL>
> <Type>Video</Type>
> </Item>
> </Content>
> </Infringement>
> - ---End ACNS XML
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: 8.0
>
> iD8DBQFBDvea8hjgiIPc43cRAi4dAJ0V8IgoNJKkS5ovS94QMd6kOsVMogCfdgsW
> YRhAupBLOM1Qo+Bs4fhrTS0=
> =zlYG
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
________________________________________________________

this is the second one, with both of my downloads in it, and all the info. i dont know how they got this, but the date is about a week later than i actually downloaded hellboy... my parents got this letter and (obviously) freaked out on me, and it was the second time also.. i really dont know why the F they are after people like us, instead of the people who actually rip the dvd-s and stuff, maybe because this is the easiest way....
I agree with u mystic, that they want their F money(not like they wouldnt have more than they can fit in their wallet) and all these agencies spend so much on anti-piracy movements, instead of lowering their prices so more people would go and buy them. the only thing they dont realize that by sending emails and threatening people like us is not going to stop piracy at all. they shut napster off years ago, and many thought that downloading music on the net is over.... they were wrong as we see, even more p2p programs and servers came out, better and better. what have they achived? absolutely nothing. they all can go and F themselves while they r catching 14yrs old girls downloading brittney spears from kazaa and so on, but they will never ever going to get anything out of it. the only thing that is going to help them is to realize the right things to do, or just give up because piracy cannot be stopped, not until people like us can afford to buy their product and support the real creators, not the record companies and all other associations that set the rules and laws. i have been thinking about an "official" forum that deals with piracy problems that could be shown to the companies and all those M.F.-s who r responsible for all this, and try to work something out, if anyone is interested pls drop me a line