@ Irish
Better try a different analogy. your argument breaks down for the paperback analogy unless you photocopy the paperback before you hand it off to your friend.

I understand the desire to use your purchase as you will. And I see that MPAA and RIAA both want to require you to buy a new copy for each method you use to enjoy your purchase. Somewhere in the middle there is "fair use".

less than fifty years ago there was no chance that you could use your purchase in any manner that could be not be considered fair use, without an additional cash outlay that made selling the product a must. Thus the test in law that a profit had to be realized to be infringement.

Even with the photocopier you still pay more per copy than it cost to buy the book.

but as time procedes the cost of books rise and the cost to copy them falls. now you don't need a typesetter and a printing press but now all you need is a phone line and a computer with the printer that came free (via manufacture rebate limit one per household)

The founding fathers played games in the neighborhood vacant lot, they learned to read from the King James Bible since it was the only book the entire family owned, they communicated by correspondence and if they got an answer within two weeks IT was because the other person was only a couple hundred miles away.

If you had told any of them that a machine connected to a thread of copper would allow all three to be done from the desk in the study... INSTANTANIOUSLY, (and virtually simultaneously) you would have been condemned as a lunatic.

Patents and copyrights do not exist to keep lawyers in business... they were designed to give incentive to inventors and writers to produce product to make this country (actually every country that has some form of them) great. The fact that they are now being used to stifle productivity in favor of mass sales would appall any of the founding fathers. (as would the evolution of our current "godless-government" but that is another discussion.)

Here's a good example of a cheaply made movie, with untalented actors: When A Stranger Calls. I decided not to see this movie, either in theatres, or DVD, based on the previews they showed on TV. The acting was extremely lame, from what I could see. Camilla Belle may be cute, but can't act. People that I know that saw it, said the same thing. This is why movie and music piracy happens.

When I see a preview on TV, I know if I'll like the movie. If I do, I go see it. If I really liked it, I buy the DVD. Same thing with music. The last crap CD I bought was St. Anger by Metallica (yes, I realize I probably pissed a few people off slamming them, but they deserve it, they're the ones that started the whole piracy thing). Since then, I DL a few songs, and if I like the majority of the songs, I buy the album, if not, I keep the songs I like, and delete the ones I don't.

ok qazwiz i dont think im part of any small percentage. a lot of people download movies to watch later after they watched them in theatres. example: x3, i watched it in theatres and then i downloaded it cause i liked it and dont wanna pay to go to the theatres again.

then wait until it comes out on DVD... do you need an invite to Columbiahouse DVD club?

it is the standard buy one get 5 or 6 free with membership things. they also have a "Fun Cash" program that gives virtual dolars for each DVD bought. (applies to dvd cost only, cost real $ for shipping and handling ($2.99)) and there is a cheaper price for second+ dvds (pay full price for most expensive, about half of full for each of the rest. first one applies to your commitment others don't))

The bottom line is that total cost for about twelve dvd's is about $120 and you have two years to fullfill the contract.
then on top of that you have enough fun cash to buy at least one more dvd for the standard S&H on each (either $2.99 or $3.99)

I thing you can see that the price break comes out at about $10 per DVD. the more of the extra DVD's that you buy (reduced price as low as $4.95 if not first[most expensive] purchase in the order)

So, I suggest you follow my pattern, DL the Zero-Day CAM, then if you like it buy the DVD and tell the MIAA what they can do with their $50 visits to the movie theater (tickets+popcorn+drinks+AHotItem {dog, burger or other) for two people can easily come to $50 or $60)

I am too "high profile" to pirate them myself, (and I hate the check in process for my backpack which I take wherever I go) also, the last theater I went to refused to offer me a place that I could sit (I am handicapped and cannot use chairs with fixed arms) so I had to walk out even before it started. that place probably should be reported for violation of handicap laws since there isn't a space for wheelchairs either)

sorry for the digression... it is just that the movie industry has given me a lot of lemons over the years and P2P has become my lemonade

lol i dont think i need an invite to the Columbiahouse DVD but i do get what u r saying about buying dvd's. they dont cost much, but what i am trying to say is why go to the theaters again after u watched a movie u liked... wait for a good release and watch it at home until the dvd comes out. dont forget to share though ;)
btw i am sorry about your experience at the theaters. there are just some stupid rules sometimes

The why is simple, the theater experience is a service that you pay for via the ticket price (up to 90% goes to the movie distributor although standard is 50%)

The ticket price pays for that experience. it is not like your hand gets stamped so you may reentery whenever you want. You are paying for a 1-1/2 or 2 or 3 (or some seem like 12) hour experience. If you want that experience again you need to pay again, I take it you think once is enough but have you heard of "Rocky Horror Picture Show"? It has been fifty times since I was a virgin at the Punch & Judy Theatre just north of Detroit Michigan. I do not desire the DVD because DVD's are a different experience.

When you buy a ticket it is usually for just one showing, thought some have an extended run available, for this conversation it is best to think of it as a one-shot deal. The video/DVD release is the experience that allows a single, or small group, to privately watch a movie as often and whenever they wany.

Again there is a price that is associated with this decision. that price is non-refundable so you must need to know that you wish to view the movie "forever" if you go this route. But conversely, if you know you want this route, ability to view repeatably, then you need to pay that price... it isn't included with the price of Admission (yet!)

Personally, I believe they should have a P2P service that allows
(a) free preview of at least 50% of a movie (the approxamate time for walkouts in the theater)
(b) very minimal fee to view the rest of the movie if they allow less than 100% free review (no more than a penny a minute for the rest of the film thus at most half a penny per minute of the movie) this is the one shot option comparable to going to the movies but not ever seeing the movie again.
(c) have an immediate option to buy the movie download instead of option B making it a whole DVD on your computer
(d) variable pricing for the quality recieved (this goes for CD downloads also) on DVDs the quality is "Excelent" but KVCD , though less than one sixth the size has a quality that I cannot difer from DVDs. this smaller version could be sold less than a DVD(which I believe should be less than $5) or say in the $1-$3 range (or even less)

the technolegy for this is currently available... they just need to run the business model and since distribution expenses it the highest cost, next to other middlemen, then they should use P2P to distribute.

Using P2P to distribute would greatly reduce the cost of distribution.... making it next to nothing so like 99% of the real money charged would goto the film makers, not middlemen

the MPAA and RIAA would not like this just because THEY are included in the middlemen that would be eliminated

I haven't been to the movies in ages, too expensive for something I can rent for 1.15$ when it comes out on dvd, rather than paying 10$, for a dirty seat, loud mouth teens, people talking about pointless things on their cells during the movie, etc.

You watch it on your tv, bring your own popcorn, soft drinks, friends, and have a better night.

This is some great stuff here to read. You guys are hilarious, this blog has had me laughing for the last half hour. Especially the one about the gun turret, priceless.

At some point the movie and music industry is going to have to realize that the world is different now and it's not going to bend to their will.

Continuing down the "prevention" path is only going alienate more and more customers and pretty soon they won't have any customers.

I don't know exactly what business model they need to switch to. There are a few experiments out there that might take off, but in order for any of it to work the MPAA and the RIAA is going to have to loosen their grip and start accepting new ideas.

Otherwise, in 10 years we will have to type in 20 digit codes and give retinal scans every time we wish to watch Star Wars 22... which will only mean that watching it from an alterniative source will be more preferable.

This is the new strategy they will implement to curb piracy.

1-Customer buys ticket
2-Customer passes through a metal detector
3-Customer is searched for a videocamera
4-Customer is beaten with a nightstick
5-Security guard offers customer first aid kit to help treat customers wounds
6-Customer is forced to get a retinal scan
7-Customer is classified in a huge database for "cinema pirates"
8-Customer pays a fine, if the customer cannot pay the fine, the ninth clause applies.
9-Customer gets forced to wear a sign "I'm a movie pirate" as a means of deterrence, by stigmatizing him or her.
10-Customer gets his or her videocamera seized and regrets going to the movies.

What a bright future the theater holds for its customers indeed!

what do you mean WILL? one, two, three, eight, and ten are already in place.

when I get bored enough to put myself through the rig-a-ma-role They usually search or temporarily confiscate my backpack (need to take reciept to office after movie to retrieve pack)

but they aren't really looking for pirate parafanailia.... though they legally have to prevent you from using such if they catch you, No, what they are doing is taking the 12 oz can of sodapop from you so you need to pay $3.50 for ten ounces of their watered down crap, (usually) locking you into a single distributers product line. When was the last time you saw my favorite soda being sold at the movies? (its Vernors, a slightly sweeter ginger ale(than Canada Dry) but it always has a much stronger "bite" (no mater what ginger ale you compare it with) due to the flavoring being aged in oak barrels for 4 years. (actually a blend of three aged 4, 8, and 12 years)

my second third and fourth choices are never in theaters either. they are all Faygo products. They are Rock-n-Rye (a cream cola, sort of like Vanilla Coke but not as sweet and a smoother "burn" the Pepsi version is way way too sweet and has no burn whatsoever) Cream Soda (not many cream sodas take my fancy but Faygo's will do if no Rock-n-Rye is around... one ugly tasting version I saw even put coconut flavoring in the recipe UGGGH!) and even their redpop, which stands out as better than the compititions also, although the flavors are closer on the clones for redpop.... I still can tell the difference

and don't get me started on the candy counter... (or the ground up meat by-products they claim are hampurgers and hot dogs...) even if the movie industry put their standards above the gutter, I would need a lot of prodding to go to a first run movie.

---

@qazwiz

Legally, they aren't allowed searching your backpack, it's the same thing at Costco, they aren't allowed to double check your cart when you come out of the store, like a forced search.

Let's face it, this isn't the airport, I would refuse a backpack search on grounds that it violates my rights.

"My friend? oh him!, no ne doesn't need a ticket... he's just my lawyer, making sure that you don't search my backpack without a warrent."

I usually go to multiplexes... maybe while the fools are looking through the things I bring where ever I go, they will need my first aid kit for their bruised egos... for letting someone else go to a different movie with a cam hidden in a belly pack

what fool would smuggle in a camera in something so obvious as a backpack or camera bag?.... gimme a break. sheesh.

@gazwiz

That joke was priceless!

Boo hoo hoo they lost a whole 1.2 billion. I don't believe it. They have no way of proving this. Probably lost more money do to lousy remakes. So how much they gonna waste for this technology developement? Maybe they should stop spending so damn much on making movies. It's ridiculous.

There is no way they would do searches. A large amount of people would turn around and get their money back.

sorry to say, your no way is yes way!

don't be sorry. I don't care...I would be one of the ones to hit customer service. I never have had a cam in a movie. It pisses me off to get searched at a concert, which I ablige cause I want to get in. But a movie, blah.

since the following is about to go to bitbuchet void I wanted to give it new life... no need to tell me not to repeat, i won't but encourage others to recycle if when it gets back to almost delete again

A joke and relivent info:

hot_ice (Senior Member) 22 June 2006 11:42
Lol, imagine, 500 people dressed as pirates going to the movie, that would be amazing. The MPAA and other insignificant others, would get pissed off, with all the publicity.

qazwiz (Junior Member) 22 June 2006 12:22
Don't forget to install a cam in your peg-leg! :)

m_towell (Junior Member) 23 June 2006 17:05
And how many devices could they put in each theatre?
All they need to do is have lots of people recording, they can't blind all the cameras at the same time....
Also, the recorder could put some filter lens on to filter out the IR.
So the MPAA spends millions of dollars out just to have the pirates buy a $10 (if that) lens filter.

qazwiz (Junior Member) 23 June 2006 17:49
HOW IT WORKS
it takes two scans and compares them for "HOT" spots. one without the infrared laser is the control and one with the laser. (In Cameras)the chip that records the pictures will reflect infrared light, so it should do something if it finds a brightspot on the second scan that isn't in the control.
the current "something" is to flood the spot with laser light.
THE PROBLEMS
1) jewelry and other shiny objects also reflect infrared so they create false positives.
2) there is only so much output a laser can do, so if everyone it the theater is trying to record (or giving false positives) there isn't enough power to prevent everyone from recording
3) filtering reduces the hot-spot created(it may not eliminate it) thus tending to indicate that it isn't a camera, and thus software may ignore it when it shouldn't. the filters needed (infrared)to reduce detection may have some deterioration in quality for the recording but since when did quality become a first concern for pirates?

just another thought qazwiz, I don't believe you.

you should explain yourself if you wish any credibility... do you believe the facts I am giving are made up (thus claiming I am lying) or are you of the mind that the re-post I placed before your comment was an unbelievable move (thus you cannot understand the passion for the subject that drives me to answer) or are you just trying to make any comment you can think of just to get the last word?(in which case we all will want a way to prevent your comments from cluttering our screens)

???

edit button is gone for the re-post three back. consider this an addendum

@ (a person who wanted to pass around movies(using p2p probably) like they read and pass along a paperback book)
Better try a different analogy. your argument breaks down for the paperback analogy unless you photocopy the paperback before you hand it off to your friend.

I understand the desire to use your purchase as you will. And I see that MPAA and RIAA both want to require you to buy a new copy for each method you use to enjoy your purchase. Somewhere in the middle there is "fair use".

less than fifty years ago there was no chance that you could use your purchase in any manner that could be not be considered fair use, without an additional cash outlay that made selling the product a must. Thus the test in law that a profit had to be realized to be infringement.

Even with the photocopier you still pay more per copy than it cost to buy the book.

but as time procedes the cost of books rise and the cost to copy them falls. now you don't need a typesetter and a printing press but now all you need is a phone line and a computer with the printer that came free (via manufacture rebate limit one per household)

The founding fathers played games in the neighborhood vacant lot, they learned to read from the King James Bible since it was the only book the entire family owned, they communicated by correspondence and if they got an answer within two weeks IT was because the other person was only a couple hundred miles away.

If you had told any of them that a machine connected to a thread of copper would allow all three to be done from the desk in the study... INSTANTANIOUSLY, (and virtually simultaneously) you would have been condemned as a lunatic.

Patents and copyrights do not exist to keep lawyers in business... they were designed to give incentive to inventors and writers to produce product to make this country (actually every country that has some form of them) great. The fact that they are now being used to stifle productivity in favor of mass sales would appall any of the founding fathers. (as would the evolution of our current "godless-government" but that is another discussion.)

qazwiz, your reply to my statement was "sorry to say, your no way is yes way!" Which indicates to me that you are saying I am wrong, people are going to be searched.
I go to movies on a average once every 1-2 months. I have yet to be searched or seen anyone searched I would understand someone being searched that had a backpack or some other unusual item going into a theater. It's hard to tell by chat whether you are lying...as I said I don't believe you. Is that so hard to understand? The issue is people being searched, and I stated my belief is that people would not be searched. I will not believe it till I see it and then I would walk away and get a refund. This issue would surely make the 11 PM news, to which there have been no reports in this area.

come here to Chicago. be sure to bring a bag with sunglasses and pens and a notebook. then tell me what happened at the movies

@Chiefbrdy

Must have been one of the funniest things ive read in a week!!

lol soo funny!

Now all the MPAA needs is someone setting in the movie audience that has an occular implant and their little laser trick causes them to go blind. But since the MPAA is always the victim, they will probably say that it is the now blind person's own fault for looking towards the movie screen.......