AfterDawn: Tech news

New copy protection approach by Sony Music

Written by Lasse Penttinen @ 10 Nov 2003 8:52 User comments (27)

New copy protection approach by Sony Music Sony Music is about to introduce copy protection technology that attepmts to be less irritating for the end user. According to the source, their new multi session disc contains a digitally compressed version of the music, that the user can copy to the PC or portable Sony device. Also Sony includes "value adding" extra content on the disc.
The new technology will pilot in Germany, before wider distribution.
But Sony thinks it has an appealing approach: Give customers added incentives to buy copy-protected CDs.

On Monday, Sony will release rhythm & blues group Naturally Seven's new CD in Germany with a so-called "second session." The disc can be played on almost any device conventionally, said Sony Music Chief Technology Officer Phil Wiser.

It also contains a compressed digital copy of the music that can be quickly copied onto any computer. From the computer, users can copy that music onto Sony portable digital music players.

The CD's also allow users to connect to Web sites with exclusive features such as bonus songs and concert tickets. The features are only available if you have the original CD.
Source: Reuters

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27 user comments

110.11.2003 10:06

just another way for the corporate biggies to track the end user


Starcruiser

Intel 440BX MB, Dual Intel 1.2Ghz P3's, 2GB RAM
TDK 440N, 390GB ATI AIW 8500DV Win2k Srvr

210.11.2003 10:39

Though this is, in my opinion, a better approach than the ones weve seen before.

310.11.2003 11:09

but that would mean you get less tracks per cd. This is a clear example of artists enability to fill their albums with actual music,rather than "bonus" stuff.

410.11.2003 12:02

it must be in atrac3 format...ho-hum...

510.11.2003 12:25

At least this is a step in the right direction--as opposed to their previous outright draconian (copy and you die) approach

610.11.2003 12:29

Good way to sell SONY portables... I agree with Ghostdog, it's um... a little less evil? w-yo, just cuz CDs can hold 80min of music does not obligate artists to fill them up. I don't think it's a good idea to base my music purchases on a cost per minute. If a painting is bigger, is it better?


We mustn't lower ourselves to the level of those we loathe, lest we become loathsome ourselves.

710.11.2003 14:36

Exactly right GrayArea. Most movies are about 30mins longer than they should be these days, and a lot of albums could stand to be a few tracks shorter.

810.11.2003 14:41

Movies may be about 30 minutes longer, but does that mean they're better? NO. The 30 minutes could be full of **** (pardon my language here). Credits are worth 5 mintues ALONE, and not a lot of people watch them. Do all tracks sound as good as each other. NO. Do I really care about some BONUS feature like tickets? HELL YEAH. Good going there. I like that idea. But not very much. So go figure. -


Everyone is entitled to their own true opinion. Either respect that or don't.


911.11.2003 1:03

Lasse, three ad links in a news item? "Technology"; "computer"; and "Web" (???) <edit> Someone must be updating this news comment as I type. May I add "digital music" to the ad-list? <gg> <edit # 2> Moments later. Now all the ad links seem to have vanished. (They were double underlined in green. What gives?)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Nov 2003 @ 1:10

1011.11.2003 6:39

Sony DOES have plans for plugins to use non-sony media players, you all know.

1111.11.2003 6:39
alxdotnet
Inactive

Not bad Sony...good marketing at least. If this catches on though, I would'nt mind using it. ATRAC is not a bad format, just inflexible.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

1211.11.2003 8:08
ArvoPahvi
Inactive

Imho Sony is a crappy company. B ecause they played too much with copy protections, I'll never buy anything which have label "S O N Y". Minidisc, yeah definitely inflexible. Who needs such? For example USB memory devices are really flexible.

1311.11.2003 8:11
alxdotnet
Inactive

I use a player that plays regular CD-Rs burned in ATRAC format. I was referring to the inability to save ATRAC files to HD.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

1411.11.2003 10:02

Tedronai, these plug-ins for non-SONY media players (that I did not know about, thankx) will only address playing files on computers, right? Its good they are doing that. I'll give them that much credit. It's the portables I'm wondering about. Sounds to me like they will be proprietary. It seems pretty $hitty that we have to buy a SONY portable just to play the few SONY CDs any one person might own. Fair use with an unfair price. Typical. Anyway, line level analog audio can always be re-digitized to whatever format a person might want... Not as good as direct digital or as convenient, but hey, people listen to 128Kb encoded mp3s all the time and don't seem to mind...


We mustn't lower ourselves to the level of those we loathe, lest we become loathsome ourselves.

1511.11.2003 10:15

I disagree that Sony is a crappy company - they have pioneered a lot of the technology in use now. And as far as professional video products go, the film and tv industry would never be where it is today without Sony products.


"I have no particular talent. I am merely inquisitive" - Albert Einstein

For the best quality mp3s use EAC (exact audio copy) to rip your audio CDs and LAME to encode them. Follow this guide:
http://www.afterdawn.com/guides/archive/mydeneaclame.cfm

1611.11.2003 12:15
alxdotnet
Inactive

GreyArea said "Sounds to me like they will be proprietary." The copy protected CDs? No way! "The disc can be played on almost any device conventionally, said Sony Music Chief Technology Officer Phil Wiser." I agree...Sony is a great company.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

1711.11.2003 13:43

Cherries on top of a turd pie. "We're still gonna shove DRM down your throat, but here's some goodies to make it all better." I have a novel idea. How about the goodies on a real CD with no DRM junk.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

1811.11.2003 14:45
alxdotnet
Inactive

At the risk of forever being considered a traitor: what's so bad about DRM? True, it can get annoying if used improperly. But as long as I can make mp3 files from the disc with the quality that I paid for when I bought the CD, I'm content. I don't need to have the power to post tracks to P2P networks to enjoy the music myself. In fact, I'm glad DRM is progressing, because I don't think people should make multiple illegal copies for friends/family/other KaZaA users. If Sony does a decent job of copying music to HD with DRM easy, cheap, and without loss in quality, then I will buy more Sony products. As far as goodies go, though, I couldn't care less.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

1911.11.2003 17:48

When I get a disc I make a copy to use around the house, then I make a second copy to use in my truck. The copies in my truck inevitably get trashed and I need to make another copy. Many DRM's allow 3 to 6 copies to be made. I use up two right out of the gate. I want to be able to make as many copies as I need to protect the original. DRM tells me no. alxdotnet - If we don't fight DRM now, it will only get worse. They're testing this now (as the article stated) to see if people will buy it. If people do, then they will get even more restrictive. Look at the label's track record. It speaks for itself. This is only the start. If you don't mind it, then power to you. It's your perogative, but I won't support a company telling me what I can and can't do with media that I paid for. Just try and put it in perspective - is today's DRM going to honestly stop copyright infringement? No way. If they are going to pursue DRM they are going to have to take it waaaay further as in uncopyable and unrippable for most people and that means we all lose out. Nothing says you're a traitor. Everyone operates on their own values. No right, no wrong, only choices.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

2011.11.2003 18:42
alxdotnet
Inactive

All very good points. Of course, I never really understood how DRM protects a CD. I rip the CD to a lossless format in WMP, possible because DRM lets me make the copy. I then burn a copy off of the ripped files, again because DRM lets me. I then rip this burned copy, and by now DRM is gone. As many files as I want. Why not just use a CD duplicator program to make a copy of the house copy for your truck? DRM doesn't actually exist. If I can play something, I can copy it. There will always be firmware hacks and free software to let me do this.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

2112.11.2003 4:42

I'm a little confused by all of this DRM stuff... you say that DRM lets you make around 6 or so copies of the original cd right? Well my question is, how would the original cd (which can't be re-written to) know the difference between my computer and my friend's computer down the street? if i run out my limit on my pc couldn't i just take the cd to his house and be able to run 6 or so more copies? If so, then what if i format my pc, which i'm always doing aynway?


"Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes!"

2212.11.2003 4:48

one more thing... with all of the "big killer" sound cards coming out with studio quality recording capabilities... couldn't i make as many copies as i want just by playing the cd in a stand alone cd player, and running it through my sound card and have a great sounding copy of the orginal, in any format, without any DRM or anything like that? i think people worry too much about this... if you can play it you can copy it is right.


"Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes!"

2312.11.2003 7:09

alxdotnet- Quote from my post above> "It's the portables I'm wondering about. Sounds to me like they will be proprietary." Just for clarity. As to the DRM, if I understand correctly, the DRM on these discs is designed to not allow the "standard" .cda audio tracks to be played (or ripped) at all on a computer. That is why the compressed tracks are being provided. No rip allowed on the .cda files at all and DRM restrictions on the compressed tracks. That's how I read it. Anybody have a different opinion?


We mustn't lower ourselves to the level of those we loathe, lest we become loathsome ourselves.

2412.11.2003 8:16
alxdotnet
Inactive

Sounds like a benefit to me...no more waiting for conversions during ripping. Perfect quality digital files. I don't think they will be able to prevent playback on a computer...even now they have portable CD players that double as computer CD-RW drives.


Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

2512.11.2003 10:23

Quote:
couldn't i make as many copies as i want just by playing the cd in a stand alone cd player, and running it through my sound card and have a great sounding copy of the orginal, in any format, without any DRM or anything like that?
Soundcard-manufacturers implement restrictions on their hardware in order to stop you from doing just that. Atleast Creative tells you something like that when installing the drivers for your soundcard. I suppose thats only for the digital output though, an analog recording should be possible.
Quote:
I won't support a company telling me what I can and can't do with media that I paid for.
I agree with this statement. If I buy a CD I should be able to send a few tracks to my friend, sharing the music with him. And I think this is what is wrong with the music business today. The money the first of their priority. Of course Im not saying we should disregard the financial aspects completely, but I think music in itself is more important than money. Music first, then money.

2612.11.2003 11:03
alxdotnet
Inactive

Actually, they have every legal right to do what they are doing. They have the legal right to prevent you from even listening to the CD, so long as you agree (by opening the CD package).

Quote:
The money the first of their priority.
Really, how'd you know?;-). Actually, this simple fact is our greatest weapon. We shouldn't waste our time fighting all DRM and make the whole community look like pirates. Instead, we should support companies like Sony which put their time and effort into developing "Good" DRM, meaning systems that allow a little flexibility, and shun or boycott companies manufacturing bad DRM that is inflexible. And we should discourage sharing of mp3s over p2p networks, because that's what's driving the music industry to DRM anyway. Its true anywhere: a few people that get out of line have to ruin something for everybody. Just because they pirate mp3s, we have to put up with increased inconvenience from DRM systems.
Comp 1: Dell Inspiron P4 2.4Ghz / 512 MB RAM with 24x CD-RW and Firewire In, SVideo Out running XP Pro
Comp 2: Dell Dimension P3 550Mhz / 384MB RAM with old 2x CD-RW running XP Home.

2714.11.2003 3:38

this is what i see... you guys remember a little while back when (i think it was sony) was making cds that wouldn't play in windows based computers, and would cause macs to crash? maybe alxdotnet is right. if the p2p thing keeps getting on their nerves like it does, couldn't they restrict the use of their media on computers altogether, and crash them if you do not comply? because after all you did agree by opening.


"Don't fire till you see the whites of their eyes!"

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