AfterDawn: Tech news

Scottish man jailed for piracy

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 22 Sep 2004 20:46 User comments (39)

Scottish man jailed for piracy A Scottish man was jailed for 9 months after being accused of pirating £750,000 worth of Software. Brendan Timoney, 40, of the village of Coatbridge, in north Lanarkshire pleaded guilty to eight charges brought against him at Airdrie Sheriff Court. He had been selling Microsoft and Adobe software illegally. He carried out his actions at his brothers and mothers homes as well as his own. Both his brother Paul, and his Mother Rose Margaret were also charged but found innocent as there was no evidence against them.
This is the kind of piracy that police should be making their "highest" piracy-related priority. No matter where you live these days, you will often see people selling pirated movies and music mostly on the street while some form of major event is taking place. Where I live in Ireland, I have myself had an encounter with men who called to my door with a black bag full of pirated DVDs, most of which were not even in theatres yet. Most of the people I've asked have also had the same experience. While I have no doubt that many of these movies may have been sourced on the Internet, encoded to DVD and then burned several hundreds or thousands of times, police forces and lawmakers should target the people who sell it mainly. Most file-sharers on the Internet disagree with the selling of pirated goods which is something that you don’t hear from either the movie or music industries but is a very true fact. To prove this, simply look up a P2P forum somewhere and have a look and you won’t be long finding people complaining about sellers.

I decided to report this news on the site just to see what kind of comments could be raised about the prioritizing of piracy crackdowns in a digital world.

Source:
The Register

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39 user comments

122.9.2004 21:01

the people selling it on the streets are what they should be going after. i mean if someone needs a particular progrma for a day for a school project or something and goes out and downloads it, so what. but if you go thru the effort of actually trying to sell it out in public or even privately you should be strung up by the nuts! why download something for free then try to make $5 off of your neighbor. all thse people make me sick anymore, all this crap started as "sharing", not "how much cash can we make off the new movie out tomorrow by selling it door to door?"

222.9.2004 23:26

9 months in jail, I wonder if he will become a butt pirate?

323.9.2004 0:06

Only if he's sharing a cell with Jolly Roger.




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423.9.2004 0:33

Quote:
Only if he's sharing a cell with Jolly Roger
rofl nice one , setiously they should take a look where i live we have one person who sells more dvd's than blockbusters. He is making a fortune at £5.00 a copy it soon mounts up, on benefit (welfare) no rent to pay etc etc really makes me sick
Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

523.9.2004 4:42

I Live in Brooklyn (NY) and I can't go up the block (on to the avenue) with out having some one asking me if I want to buy a pirated DVD. Things have just deteriorated to a point that it just a joke. This crap just pisses me off.

623.9.2004 5:48

yes the constant barrage of pirates everywhere street corners flea markets even the gargae sales are now loaded with dvds and cds that are backed up... is just terable , but in a country like the USA where its easyer for us to send money and or food to other country's for the children we have the largest amount of hungrey people in the world and we dont help them we tell them to find a job or go to a soup kitchen so they will make money anyway they can. movies being taped with a cam corder is about the must hanus crime that can be done ( and be for warned do it with me there and I'll take it from ya and well call it a gift , but music that is played over a radio is free to keep so I hooked my sterio up to my computer to catch things I like ... now I have cable and satalite hooked up as well and I'm paying for that so I should be able to record and save all that I can or want . its payed for. now as far as I can tell its up to the music or movie industry to get their money from the cable and satalite companys or from the advertizements sold to air durning the shows. file sharing has been branded illegal and we all know it so why do we do it because we are human and human nature dictates that "if its free its for me" and the artist who make the cds should take stock that if they release an aalbum and only one song makes it to the top 100 song list then its a good bet the rest of the album is crap and they were going to rip off the rest of us... when will I get my check for being over charged for cds for 10 years ?never because our goverment settled with them and made them give mulible copies of bad software to public librarys . like they bought any cds , and the stuff they gave to the librarys was like 35 copies of the same poka songs ...... not kewl...

723.9.2004 9:13
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

Good for him!!! At least he made some money!!! If Giant corporations, like software firms and film studios didn't charge such inflated prices in the first place, maybe he would not have been able to do what he did? It's sad as far as DVD's go, it is a fact that the studios pay their actors FAR too much money (ffs - I would have been happy with £1000 to play the lead in FATAL ATTRACTION for example! lol, or even for free). The cost of a CD or DVD to these giants is fractions of a penny, yet since the days of video, movie prices have increased rather than decreased, why is DVD more expensive than video when DVDs are cheaper to produce? The corporate giants are lining their own pockets at our expense, so WELL DONE if you can sell their movies to others for the price THEY should be charging!!!

823.9.2004 12:24

Quote:
Good for him!!! At least he made some money!!! If Giant corporations, like software firms and film studios didn't charge such inflated prices in the first place, maybe he would not have been able to do what he did? It's sad as far as DVD's go, it is a fact that the studios pay their actors FAR too much money (ffs - I would have been happy with £1000 to play the lead in FATAL ATTRACTION for example! lol, or even for free). The cost of a CD or DVD to these giants is fractions of a penny, yet since the days of video, movie prices have increased rather than decreased, why is DVD more expensive than video when DVDs are cheaper to produce? The corporate giants are lining their own pockets at our expense, so WELL DONE if you can sell their movies to others for the price THEY should be charging!!!
do you realize that they can charge whatever they want because of the fact that we are not being forced to buy anything.... they are offering there software/movies in the agreement that we pay them for their work.... if you were a programmer and you developed some really bitchen software that everyones going to want... how would you feel if you see people just givin it away for free....... LETALONE MAKING A PROFIT FOR IT.... the reason for this website is so you can make a backup copy of your software/game/movie so you dont need to pay the rediculous price again........
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Sep 2004 @ 12:29

matrix infiniy modded ps2 (broken, burnt out PS1 fuse)
xbox(freshly softmodded with krazies)xbmc dash. Stock HDD.
www.norcalmods.com did my ps2 mod, cheap n fast:)
DOWN WITH APPLE!

923.9.2004 12:26

sry about the entier thing being a quote..... i ment to make just that one guys statement a quote and obviously hit the wrong "/" it wont let me edit:(

1023.9.2004 13:14

Quote:
Good for him!!! At least he made some money!!!
Doesnt make it right, this is one of the reasons that dvd copying is frowned upon imo. Even if you reduced the prices significantly people would still buy pirate simple. I pay for all my software and my dvds if it's worth it pay it simple, if people don't think it's worth it don't buy it.
Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

1123.9.2004 13:37

What are the sources of piracy? File Sharing and BlockBuster. But hell, if we didn't have any of those, we wouldn't be talking about pirates, and the RIAA wouldn't exist. So.... this does justify the fact that companies are focusing more of their resources on P2P instead of actual pirates, but it doesn't justify their methods. Really though, there's no point in trying to stop piracy (unless everyone knows how to do it, I've mentioned this in some news posts), and they should try to evolve with File Sharing and make a profit, instead of pounding out new encryptions, only for them to be cracked in a matter of days.

1223.9.2004 13:45

I couldnt agree with you more it is about time they realised that and worked together for the benefit of the p2p community and other sources. Thing is imo even if they charged a pittance for software and films, some people would still feel the need to pirate it, I have used dodgy software in the past if it meant i can evaluate some crippleware program properly, but as soon as i know it will suit my purchase i buy it. if it doesnt it goes in the bin simple. I buy a lot of films on import and you would not beleive the amount of people who have asked me to spin a copy off, it does beggar belief

1323.9.2004 14:39

£750k what a feckin lie. Remember when they calculate that figure they count each copy of xp as the full retial price so it sounds bad. Proberly about £50's worth really.

1425.9.2004 1:08

Hi, I was the Reporting Officer for the case against this guy. Just some information that was not reported. he was also selling music DCs, all discs were made to look like the genuine thing and when he was not paid for his product, he would phone the people (some over the age of 65) and make threats of violence against them. At this point he is in jail in Glasgow (No fun)where he should be. If you have any questions about the case, i would be glad to answer. The Law Man

1525.9.2004 3:45

Hello 'thelawman' and welcome to Afterdawn. I have a couple of questions not relating to the case, more about you really. Who do you actually work for? Why did you decide to reply to this thread offering to discuss the case? What are your opinions on people who produce backup copies of DVD's and CD's for their own use, and not for making large profits by selling them to all and sundry? I don't mean to cause offence to a new member but the very nature of the Afterdawn site means that anybody can sign up and claim to be anyone. Joining up as 'thelawman' is a bold statement in itself.

1625.9.2004 5:29

Hi Agent K. I used the Name "The Law Man" because i thought it would cover a broad range and would help to cross the international barriers. I work for a Special Criminal Investigation Unit within the UK Trading Standards. I was not sure if my international friends would understand or would even have heard of the government department i work for so i thought the broad ranging "The Law Man" would be better. Q1 - I work For the Trading Standards Special Projects Unit. Q2 - I was interested in other peoples attitude to the jail term the offender recieved. I also wanted to answer any questions people may have about the case in general. Q3 - I personaly have no problem with this. The problem arises when people are using them for profit (Burning to order) and when they are caught they use the "they are my personal back up discs" as a defence. I would never bring charges against anyone that i thought had just backed up there discs. It would not be in the public interest. My boss would never put a case into court if the seized goods were less than 4000 discs, anything less than that and she would seize the goods and issue a warning. To set your mind at rest, i am the reporting officer. The case was submitted to Airdrie Sheriff Court. The original case also had charges against his mother and brother. They were involved in the counterfeiting operation. The accused could have pled guilty at any time and we would have dropped the charges against mother and brother but he chose to hang on for 18 months before doing this and so put them both through a very bad ordeal. I hope this helps. Not all cases are as simple as the press would make out. Our team have another 20 cases due in court in the next 12 months.

1725.9.2004 5:40

Large scale piracy is always going to be a problem, but a jail sentence is a little harsh, not in this case may i add, (if he was threatening people) In my area alone drug pushers and a few other hardened criminals regularly walk free from court, but caught selling hooky software, dvds and prison here we come. Seems to me there are worse crimes and criminals out there and more time, money and effort should be put to good use in those areas.


Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

1825.9.2004 5:56

Hi Doofy - I agree with you. Yes drug dealers and those who commit violent crimes should be sent to prison for long time. Years. The problem is that it all depends on the officers reporting the case. On average, police officers (UK) submit reports that are 10 to 15 pages long. Not enough time is spent covering all the loop holes and defence avenues. Our unit has 3 officers who are all highly trained in the writing of criminal cases. The average counterfeiting case is 1000 to 2000 pages and we cover all possible defence avenues. It is not, as we are told, the industry (Film, Music & Game)who pay for this, it is local government. 99% of counterfeiters are unemployed and as such claim housing benefits, unemployment benefit, disability allowance, council tax rebates free dental treatmemt and free medical prescriptions. The local businesses are suffering. One shop closing down in my area paid off 15 staff because of the drop in sales of discs! Having said all that, i still agree with you. Dealers are the scum of the earth and should be given harsh punishment.

1925.9.2004 6:10

Fair points and i whole heartedly agree with you, I am one of the ones who work to pay my council tax, my rent put food on the table. As I have said before on other threads in the area i live we have one individual claiming all the benefits he can think of yet still continues to sell more dvd's than HMV, off the top of my head he claims off the state when you take into account rent, council tax etc etc £1040.00 in one MONTH. Then take into account how many dvds a day he can pump out and the amount just sky rockets. So i do see your points. Annoying when genuine people are struggling to make ends meet


Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

2025.9.2004 6:12
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

Quote:
Hi, I was the Reporting Officer for the case against this guy
YEAH RIGHT lawman, u idiot Scotland doesn't have "reporting officers" And no matter what, I still like Maggie from the Simpsons, she is cute. lol

2125.9.2004 6:19
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

LAWMAN, ur obviously full of a word beggining with S, as a police officer in the UK, I can find no record of your so called UNIT, rest assured I will try to find out more about you and your idiotic ramblings. Furthermore, the UK Police/Government are newbies to electronic fraud and counterfeit DVD's or Software, this is still a gray area with the home office, so if you are part of a SUPER team, why breach the official secrets act and tell the whole world? GET A GRIP OF YOURSELF

2225.9.2004 6:49

thelawman, I too had my doubts about you but I found a link that shows that the 'special projects unit' were indeed responsible for the raid at Airdrie. http://www.northlan.gov.uk/living+here/trading+standards/special+projects/raid+on+scottish+counterfeiters+nets+major+operation+.html So in response to one of your answers, If I was to be copying a couple of hundred dvd's at a time and selling them around the council estate where I live, it is unlikely that I would suffer much of a punishment if I got caught. Chances are I would be able to do this for a good few months and earn a pocketful of cash and the only price to pay would be the confiscation of my stock and a slapped wrist. Well the first time anyway. On a lighter note, all my copies are excellent quality. hahaha.




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2325.9.2004 12:59

Hi. well Gazzzza you didn't look hard enough. (see the link above. I am not discussing anything that is not in the public domain and i am not bound under the official secrets act. We are not a SUPER team, i did not say that. I said we were highly trained. I did say i worked for trading Standards. In Scotland, (not sure about England) we do have reporting officers (Lead officer in the case). I would never discuss a case that was not in the public domain. It would appear that it was a mistake to join this website. I did not expect abuse but rather a decient conversation on the subject.

2425.9.2004 14:36

thelawman, sorry for the delay, had to go out for a meeting on the square. I'm afraid it was inevitable that you were going to get abuse because of your profession. This copying lark is still a bit of a grey area to most of us. I buy a nice DVD and I know the kids are going to treat it roughly so I make a copy and put the original away in the drawer. Am I breaking the law by doing this? I don't really care as I paid for the original and the copy is for my use only to protect my investment. It's the same as a computer game, they get scratched to hell and back so you make a copy and use that, and when that gets wrecked you make another copy. I can see the point that someone produces thousands of copies and makes a fortune, then gets caught and goes to jail. I quite agree with that, but where does it end? If one of my neighbours decides to be vindictive and informs the police that I am doing pirate copies of DVD's, then they could come into my house and find a dvd writer, blank dvd's and a box of empty dvd cases and plenty of dvd copying software on my computer. How do I explain that?

Quote:
My boss would never put a case into court if the seized goods were less than 4000 discs, anything less than that and she would seize the goods and issue a warning
So if I got 3500 copies of the latest release sitting in my living room waiting to be distributed and I get caught, all I'm going to get is a warning. For the amount of money concerned then surely it's worth the risk.


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2525.9.2004 16:59

Quote:
My boss would never put a case into court if the seized goods were less than 4000 discs, anything less than that and she would seize the goods and issue a warning
I dont know about scotland i will take your word for that, but here in the uk if you are caught or suspected of piracy, It wouldnt just be the discs that were confiscated all your computer equipment would be seized while they examine it. And i do mean all It has happened in raids around here. A local man accused of piracy had his computer seized, his childrens computer seized and all discs seized. now 6 months down the line they still havent decided whether or not to prosecute nor has he had his equipment returned.
Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

2624.10.2004 14:16

Well its no surprise really they jailed this man along with arresting many others for selling a few dvds, after all its corporate money that dictates the what the law does in this country.Sad really when i look around and see children with needles hanging out there arms who have just been supllied with tenner bag from some well known to everyone drug dealer who the authorities turn a blind eye to, but week in week out he will make thousands of pounds in sterling not paying a penny to anyone. This doesnt really matter because at the end of the day its better to keep people who have no future junked up thatw ay they dont complain about the second rate housing nor do they bother with the fact that they will never get a job as long as they are out of there face.However if they legalised drugs and some big corporation manufactured them the street dealers would be in jail in no time.See everything is governed by the pound, the man who sells a dvd for a fiver is probably a terrorist or has terrorist links, yes he knows the man who sells the drugs that afghanastan and we all know what goes on there, thats about the only link he will have with terrorism.I am not saying its okay to sell pirate goods but c.mon do we really believe the link with terrorism.How many people who have been arrested been living in millionaire mansions?, or how many have even looked as if they have made a descent living out of it, true fact is the people who sell do this do it because the poor wages in this country drive people to commit crime in order to make it through 1 fiscal year. Its okay to kill thousands for greed but make 20 quid selling piated goods then your public enemy no1. Sorry until we stop being ripped off with everything then sort of crime will always go on.Fair pricing policy stop the corporate greed greed and help the needy.

2724.10.2004 14:22

Well said that man

2824.10.2004 14:27

Hey Sorry for the spelling errors i am tired, and my ecucation system here in Scotland is second rate along with the health system and everything else. Anyway i invite everyone to holiday in Scotland its a lovely place, petrols only 4 quid a gallon, thats about 6 dollars u.s.And Lawman i agree with you where pirates are threatening people they deserve all they get, okay i have said enough on the matter but please people open your eyes and deal with the real issues that effect us all.

2926.10.2004 6:20
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

"Its okay to kill thousands for greed but make 20 quid selling piated goods then your public enemy no1. Sorry until we stop being ripped off with everything then sort of crime will always go on" YES INDEEDY

3026.10.2004 6:24
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

As WarForOil knows, it's perfectly legal for his mother and sister to prostitute themselves for cash and the police turn a blind eye to it! Yet, try to make a copy of a DVD and Hollywood shits it's self!!!!

3127.10.2004 5:02

Read in this morning paper that some others in Scotland have been raided and computer gear has been confiscated.Reading the article it say people selling those pirated dvds have been selling them for up to 20 pounds a throw,thought wouldnt it be cheaper to nip into your local supermarket and buy them for on average a ten pounds. Besides i dont know anyone who buys pirated dvds for anything near that price, i can go to the local market and but any dvd 3 for 10 pounds this seems to be the average price people pay for them. Its not surprising therefore next time you read about someone being in posession of half a million quids worth of pirated disks what they really mean half a dozen dvds and a few disks of mp3s. I dont buy the fact either that there are thousands of jobs being lost due to the fact someone sells a few disks, these jobs will have been lost anyway due to things like more and more people buying online or downloading songs through legal sites, natural wastege, we see it happening now in the banking sector and travel agencies, they are closing also due to the same thing. My argument to the music industry is that due to the growing trends where kids have more things to purchase now with there disposable income such as phone cards, computer games etc unlike years ago where all they had to buy was records this is why music sales have dropped in recent years its been happening since the 70s, remembering then it took a band to get to no1 spot sales of half a mllion now a band cant get to no1 selling only a few thousand and thats the trend before the birth of mp3. If the corporate record comps sell there products at a price which is more affordable then im sure the trend would turn around. We know thats never going to happen so really the battle is lost regarding music sales. Fact as well for all the jobs that have been lost through alleged music downloads etc how many have been created by disk manufacturers, cdr drives and computer equipment etc, im sure you will find a lot more have been created.On final note also the people who purchase or make pirated goods a sell them spend the money in this country which i suppose to some small degree help there local economy, how many big corporations actualy pay taxes, you would be surprised how many big companys dont pay nothing at all, why arent they being tageted by all and sundrie.Okay thats my contribution for today, im away to fill my car up at a bp station and help them make another 2billion profit in the nest 3 months,not much really onlya million pounds a day,how much tax do they pay?????//check it out.

3229.10.2004 13:13

The total value of all digital data is 0.1234567891011121314151617181920212223... I am speaking mathematically, but in currency that translates to FREE. Be the operator of your "pocket calculator"! (as in Kraftwerk)

3330.10.2004 6:15

Brendan Timoney deserved everything he got. I have all the right equipment and time in the evenings to pirate DVD's and CD's to sell on. But do i do it? No. The reason being is that i have a respect for the law, even if a lot fo the time it doesn't protect or my family, but i would sooner go to work everyday and earn my money in an honest way. There have been a lot of good comments on this topic regarding a lot of capitalist companies nuking the honest public for every penny, but as stated earlier in the post... We are not being forced into buying these goods. Nor are we being forced to buy pirate wares as well. I work for a large multi-national finance company, and they are just as bad as Music/Video/Software companies for selling an extortionately priced product, but while people are still buying, these companies will keep on selling. I have hundreds of DVD's all of which are originals, and all of which are backed up. I have no problem with trading standards coming to my house to inspect them, as i know i am breaking no law. FYI - Did you know it is still illegal to tape a radio station playing music? Why is this not being enforced? It is also illegal to record a film off the t.v on VHS, this is why Sky scrambles their Box Office films, do you see trading standards running house to house in your neighbourhood? I certainly don't! There is a thin line on what you can call piracy. But bottom line is that if they wished so... trading standards could arrest us all, fill all the prisons and leave the streets full of murderers and rapists.

3430.10.2004 9:31
GAZZZZZA
Inactive

So basically DVD'S etc cost too much!!!!! So copying then and giving them to your families is fine as far as I can see.

3530.10.2004 14:26

Quote:
So copying then and giving them to your families is fine as far as I can see.
You really have no idea of the concept of "Back-up" do you? Piracy in this country is still illegal, and all those who do it are punishable under current UK law. You may be wish to read the following:
Quote:
4.2 Offences: Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 Under Section 107(1) a person commits an offence who, without the licence of the copy­right owner - (a) makes for sale or hire, or (b) imports into the United Kingdom otherwise that for his private and domestic use, or (c) possesses in the course of a business with a view to committing any act infringing the copyright, or (d) in the course of a business - (i) sells or lets for hire, or (ii) offers or exposes for sale or hire, or (ill) exhibits in public, or (iv) distributes, or (e) distributes otherwise than in the course of a business to such an extent as to affect prejudicially the owner of the copyright, an article which is, and which he knows or has reason to believe is, an infringing copy of a copyright work. Under Section 107(2) a person commits an offence who - (a) makes an article specially designed or adapted for making copies of a particular copyright work, or (b) has such an article in his possession, knowing or having a reason to believe that it is to be used to make infringing copies for sale or hire or for use in the course of a business. Under Section 107(3) where copyright is infringed (otherwise than by reception of a broadcast or cable programme) - (a) by the public performance of a literary, dramatic or musical work, or (b) by the playing or showing in public of a sound recording or film, any person who caused the work to be so performed, played or shown is guilty of an offence if he knew or had reason to believe that copyright would be infringed.
Source: http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/

369.11.2004 2:41

(standing up from chair) hi im greenthum and im an x-pirate, in the mid to late 90s, i was a pirate, i helped to conceive the amiga 95 and 96 cds, we bought a 1X cd burner (sony) for Nigh on £900 and burned blank cds(£10 each) and sold em for £30-40 each, im not proud of what we did as it may or maynot of helped with the downfall of a blo..y good computer, we moved over to the pc and distributed blobby and mag cds still making money and eventually ps ones. i got out because of all of the heat around our area from people we knew being nicked, we made a few quid but the risks arnt worth it in the end, i now own a computer shop and have got all original software on my systems at home and work and, have to kick myself when kids come in offering stolen or copied software to me cheap, i give em a moral lecture about piracy but know it goes in one ear and out the other, i stand by my actions as being stupid and now have no links to my former past. dont steal other peoples software it will only come and bite u on the ass in the end......

379.11.2004 3:09

The blobby cd's i remember them well, they were given to me buy a computer shop!! when i first started in computers. I really dont think piracy is going away no matter how many people get caught, it is so simple to do and easy to make a profit. On the estate where i live people are going door to door selling the latest DVDs and now christmas is almost upon us it will be steadily getting worse.


Burn rubber that doesn't mean warp speed

389.11.2004 13:51

the only way piracy will be wiped out is by the big companies allowing you to down load the latest movie for £5 a pop at the time of the film going on genral release , this will eliminate the cinema pirates getting to the market and thus normal people will get access to the latest movies at 100% quality , but the movie moguls wont do this because they want to milk the movie for all they can get,they then complain that the barras have the latest release of shrek 2 or spiderman 2 or whatever. now I know not everybody is not broadband , but this would go a long way to prevent it as I would rather pay £5 for a 100% quality movie download than for a cinema ,out of focus ,bad sound , people walking in front camcorder job , if there is any movie top dogs reading , TAKE NOTE "you are the one's responsible for the pirate industry as if it werent for your greed there wouldn't be any" Your mentality is : why work 3 times as hard to make the same money as I do now !! anyway thats my pennies worth :0)

399.11.2004 15:20

Yup got to agree with that 100% i took my daughter and niece to see the latest harry potter (when it was on dirst release) the picture quality was crap, the sound awful and the audience even worse. This cost me an absolute fortune, Shortly afte this the DVD was released by some group pre retail, i have seen this copy and it is excellent quality i certainly wouldnt have minded paying to downlaod and watch it instead of, arranging a second mortgage for a family day at the cinema. I do find it hard sometimes to feel sympathy for the companys losing out to piracy, not all the time just sometimes

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