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Closing arguments heard in Kazaa trial

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 23 Mar 2005 12:02 User comments (25)

Closing arguments heard in Kazaa trial After weeks of making their arguments in court, both the Recording Industry and Sharman Networks have now to give their closing arguments. Sharman's closing arguments are very predictable. Lawyers for Sharman said the company acknowledged that some of its users may use Kazaa for illegal purposes but that Sharman cannot be held responsible for their actions. The company claims that it has no control over what the users do with the software after it has been downloaded and installed on their computer.
Lawyer Tony Meagher said the main issue of the case was whether Sharman Networks authorized the Kazaa users to use it for copyright infringement. "We tell these users in our Web site and we tell them in our license that they cannot use this for infringing copyright," Meagher told Judge Murray Wilcox. "By consenting to the terms of the license agreement, the users were exempting Kazaa's owners from liability for copyright infringement" he added.

Judge Wilcox seemed quite humoured at the claim made by Meagher and asked if it was "unduly cynical" to assume that most people don't read software licensing agreements. "One is entitled to use one's general experience that most people don't read through legal documents unless they regard them as critically important," he said. Meagher responded by saying that users were required to confirm that they read the license agreement before using Kazaa to trade any files.

The recording industry fought back against the claims Sharman made about their lack of control over users of the network and accused Kazaa of enabling and encouraging copyright infringement. The lawyers argued that Sharman collects information on its users that would enable them to control their use of the software. Lawyer Tony Bannon told the court that Sharman collects information on Kazaa users and sells it to advertisers, adding that it was a "mind boggling claim" that they had no control.

The recording industry wants the court to rule that Sharman Networks is liable for the massive copyright infringement that has taken place on the network. If they get their wish then they can sue Sharman for damages or every single instance of copyright infringement. A verdict is expected within six weeks.

Source:
ABC News

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25 user comments

123.3.2005 13:15

Ok..now this is quite comical...

Quote:
Judge Wilcox seemed quite humoured at the claim made by Meagher and asked if it was "unduly cynical" to assume that most people don't read software licensing agreements. "One is entitled to use one's general experience that most people don't read through legal documents unless they regard them as critically important," he said. Meagher responded by saying that users were required to confirm that they read the license agreement before using Kazaa to trade any files.
How can he make that type of statement, when half of all spyware, adware, and so forth is distributed through people actually accepting EULA. People should read it. Even if they don't, they are still binded by the EULA. It is like a electronic legal document. Kazaa shouldn't be found guilty.
Quote:
Sharman collects information on Kazaa users and sells it to advertisers
Ok...this I believe, because of all the crap you get with Kazaa...so I don't feel for them on this one. Hhhmmm, this is interesting...now I don't think that Kazaa should be found liable in regards to copyright infringement, with the exception of if it promoted it in a way suggesting that it was ok to do so. Now, as far as collecting info, YES, I think that they should get penalized for that, because spyware and adware are nasty programs. This is like the whole BitTorrent issue...just because you have a program that allows sharing of material, you shouldn't be held liable if people are using it to download illegal material, if they had a EULA stating NOT to use it for illegal activities, then it should not be their responsibility. Just because you can download a movie, doesn't mean you should. If you GIVE people the tools they need, they are going to USE them to their own vices. Kinda like handing the keys to a brand new Ferrari and saying, "Look, but not touch." Honestly...what do you think they are going to do...I will tell you what I am going to do...VROOM!!! VROOM!!! ;)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Mar 2005 @ 13:20

"From now on we are poison to you Spider-man...Thats why we call ourselves...VENOM"

223.3.2005 13:36

Just as venom said, the EULA is a LEGALLY BINDING document to WHOEVER agrees with it (which is required before you use the software). If you agree to not trade copyrighted material via the EULA then Sharman Networks can NOT be held responsible for the trading of copyrighted data (mainly music) so, they should win in the case. But, due to the corruption of the R$AA (lol) they will win, even though it is unjustly.

323.3.2005 13:38

LOL! I got that one...

Quote:
R$AA
NICE!
"From now on we are poison to you Spider-man...Thats why we call ourselves...VENOM"

423.3.2005 13:46

wow, that was alot i didn't read it :S i like the "r$aa" lol, i hope kazaa gets in trouble, so the blame gets (no longer) placed on the users shoulders. i have noticed since the downfall of kazaa that i havn't had ONE virus :) (i stopped using it over 8 months ago)

523.3.2005 13:55

Quote:
i have noticed since the downfall of kazaa that i havn't had ONE virus
lol, this is due to the corrupted songs that have corrupted KaZaA. Virus writers are smart and stay one step ahead, they also adapt and keep send viruses to what ever p2p service etc. is becoming popular.
"The only people who should buy Monster cable are people who light cigars with Benjamins." - Gizmodo

623.3.2005 13:58

Oh believe me...they are out there! Yeah, been reading about a few of them myself. But they hit pretty much EVER p2p client out there.

723.3.2005 14:43

If they win theres nothing stopping them. Whats next closing down isps? Making modems illegal? Making external hard drives illegal? They wont stop they are ruthless bastards that would run the world their own way if they could.

823.3.2005 15:02

Hey chosen11, That is not even the HALF of it... There was an article about the use of TIVO and other DVR units, which can...as you know...record shows, saying that recording them and then copying them to vcr or dvd was copyright infringement. So as they say... THE PLOT THICKENS!

923.3.2005 22:09

People are so greedy, whatever happened to sharing.. remember back in kinder and pre-k?.. sharing is good. So selfish. I don't think Kazaa should be found guilty (although they are bastards w/ their spyware/viruses and the like) but regardless they can't be held responsible for what other people do with the software. F#$% the R$AA. I spent enough money on cd's back in the day.

1024.3.2005 3:49

As much as I dislike kazaa for the spyware and adware, I sincerely HATE the R$AA. However, neither of these have any effect on my opinion that Kazaa should NOT be held responsible for its usage by the end user. As mentioned, it's no-ones fault if the user does not fully read and agree to the EULA. To hold a company responsible for the stupidy of someone else, not even employees of theirs, is totally rediculous and utterly obsurdAs much as I dislike kazaa for the spyware and adware, I sincerely HATE the R$AA. However, neither of these have any effect on my opinion that Kazaa should NOT be held responsible for its usage by the end user. As mentioned, its no-ones fault if the user does not fully read and agree to the EULA. To hold a company responsible for the stupidity of someone else, not even employees of theirs, is totally ridiculous and utterly absurd.

1124.3.2005 3:51

Sorry: <QUOTE>As mentioned, it's no-ones fault if the user does not fully read and agree to the EULA.</QUOTE> What I wanted to say was: As mentioned, it's no-ones fault, <I>EXCEPT THE USERS</I> if the user does not fully read and agree to the EULA.

1224.3.2005 4:40

A lot of users here mention the adware and spyware of Kazaa. Does this also apply to Kazaa-lite. I thought Kazaa-lite was free of this stuff. Can someone enlighten me?

1324.3.2005 4:51

Quote:
People are so greedy, whatever happened to sharing.
Well...in the corporate world...the term, "What's that?," Explains it all. @lavabuild You definately need to read this... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/144925 and this... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/172094 and this... http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/170678 They all pretty much say the same thing, but I would stay away from anything Kazaa till all this stuff with them clears up...which it won't.
"From now on we are poison to you Spider-man...Thats why we call ourselves...VENOM"

1424.3.2005 5:34

Cheers Venom, I have just moved away from Kazaa and started to use Azureus (bitorrent client) which I am very pleased with so far. Lb

1524.3.2005 6:11

@lavabuild Cheers to you as well! :)

Quote:
I have just moved away from Kazaa and started to use Azureus (bitorrent client) which I am very pleased with so far.
Not to say that Kazaa was the worst, at least when it first came out it wasn't. Just that after awhile they really went downhill and other p2p programs stepped in. Now adays, you have the pick of the litter when it comes to P2P programs, which is really cool. Speaking of bittorent clients...I am going to be trying a couple of them out, just to see how good they really are, cause right now I use Limewire! ;)
"From now on we are poison to you Spider-man...Thats why we call ourselves...VENOM"

1724.3.2005 8:22

In Canada we have to pay a levy on every cd we buy (i think like 10 cents a CD). This money is SUPPOSED to goto the record companies and such. 10 cents may not seem like alot but if you buy a 50 pack thats an extra $5. I dont even know if this money actully makes it were its supposed to but all i know is i pay it

1824.3.2005 12:00

Quote:
This money is SUPPOSED to goto the record companies and such.
KEY WORD...SUPPOSED...makes you wonder where it REALLY is going too.
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I dont even know if this money actully makes it were its supposed to but all i know is i pay it
Probably not...might be a ploy that goes into a fund to take p2p users to court, but they are fogging it up and saying it is some kinda of tax thing. Speaking of which, I know what you mean chrome38, I heard and have seen that Canada pays like alot more for its products than we do here in the US.

1925.3.2005 9:18

What about the EULAs one has to agree to in order to buy music from iTunes or NapsterII etc...? Many of the terms of use are driven diectly by the record companys. They act as though the boilerplate EULAs that "protect" their copyrights were written by the hand of God, then when Kazaa claims their EULA exempts them from what end users do with their software the labels cry foul and say KaZaa can't hide behind a EULA! Note to music companys. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! If Kazaa's EULA offers them no protection then yours will also offer none.

2025.3.2005 10:15
m_towell
Inactive

I'll take what venomX05 said in the first comment. Does this mean that every car manufacturer should be sued for every time some speeds, or runs a red light, or anything else? (hope I get this quote thing right)

Quote:
If they get their wish then they can sue Sharman for damages or every single instance of copyright infringement.
I'd like to see them determine the exact numbers of copyright infringements. LOL

2125.3.2005 10:16

Grayarea I agree! If the judge finds that the KaZaa EULA is a joke (read not a legal document because people do not read them but just click through them)then it will set a precedent and thus all EULAs are worthless thus the RIAA and everyone else who uses them are SH*t out of luck and we can do what we want! This is a dangerous area that judge is treading on. Starcruiser

2225.3.2005 10:38

@m_towell

Quote:
I'd like to see them determine the exact numbers of copyright infringements
Yeah...you know they are going to throw some sorry astronomical number out there...might as well blame the whole damn world! @strcruzer
Quote:
This is a dangerous area that judge is treading on.
OH..how right you are, just read this article... http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/6038.cfm Now...how messed up is THIS!

2325.3.2005 13:46

Thing is...if they are suing Sharman, they are indulging in selective prosecution without regard to the accessories before the fact, namely Microsoft, maker of Windows™ operating systems under which KaZaa runs and without which it would be virtually impossible for file sharing to occur. This argument may be specious but it is no more so than the arguments put forward by the recording industry, whose sales, incidentally, are up this year.

2427.3.2005 11:15

the recording industry sucks. Kazaa are not responsible for the copyright infringement.if Bin Laden sent an e-mail to Arafat hook hand whatever saying this is how we're gonna break Saddam out of prison would the FBI sue hotmail? its ridiculous.i dont use kazaa but i hope they win the case. Go Kazaa!

2527.3.2005 12:11

Yeah...this is going to look mighty good in a few weeks when they come to a decision. Who knows what it might do for the p2p company!

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