AfterDawn: Tech news

Your HDTV might not play video from HD discs

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 07 Oct 2005 13:17 User comments (30)

It's a question that many consumers have been asking, and an answer is expected in October or November; what will happen when consumers with HDTV sets that have not got a High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) connection, want to watch high definition movies on next generation discs? The problem is that Hollywood wants to dictate to how consumers will connect their video disc players to their television sets.
Current connections in use are pretty easy to break into the video signal being sent to capture and create copies of it, whereas Hollywood is favoring HDMI connections for High Definition movies due to its included copy protection that protect the video signal. However, HDMI is now only becoming a common feature in HDTVs, whereas millions of HDTV sets in people's homes around the world use analog connections which could be easily used to capture the video signal, perhaps rendering some layers of copy protection on the both the upcoming HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disc formats useless.

The group behind the Advanced Access Content System (AACS) content protection system is expected to give a decision on whether to allow high-definition over analog connections in October or November. AACS founders include Microsoft, Intel, IBM, Matsushita, Sony, Warner, Toshiba and Disney. Input from content providers will also influence the decision.

It seems possible that recently purchased expensive flat screen HDTVs that don't have HDMI connections could face limitations such as only being able to watch HD movies in standard definitions, losing the extra quality that HD provides. Sure the picture quality will be better since HDMI is digital, but is that enough to go out and buy a whole new TV set... again?

"There are severe negotiations going on with Hollywood," said Kazuhiko Nakane, manager of Mitsubishi's disc format and DVD verification laboratory. He added that deadlines have been missed in the past, indicating that maybe we wont receive any decision within the next two months. If you think you can beat this by simply watching a HD movie on your computer, think again. The lack of HDCP in most PC monitor connections could cause the same problems.

High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is the copy protection designed to be included with HDMI and DVI connections to protect content. Ryoichi Hayatsu of NEC said negotiations for at least a grace period (hopefully until 2010) can be provided to allow consumers time to upgrade their monitors are still under way. Even if the AACS group came to a decision, the content providers will probably be able to set the permission themselves on a per-title basis. This is something that will likely cause confusion for consumers.

Source:
PC World

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30 user comments

17.10.2005 13:37

Typical an action from bollywood and RIAA. Indeed, millions of HDTV's are out in people homes and on the market that will turn useless right after this becomes final. I can tell that a lot of people will get very pissed about this if it sticks. And for what? A protection that will last a few days before it gets broken and then turned useless again. Ahh someone nuke that damn country!

27.10.2005 15:29

Ideas like this come from disturbed control freaks who only care about how much money and power they can achieve before they die and lose it all.

37.10.2005 15:33

FUCK, another copy protection, but this time it seems hardware based. If this does stick, I think the people who have just bought an expensive HDTV that doesn't have HDMI will just say fuck it to the new formats and stick with DVDs. I don't want that to happen because I am all for the advancement of technology, and its shit like this that impedes progress. And what the hell is with this not being able to play on a computer?? I don't even have a DVI monitor because LCDs are too expensive if you want it to have better quality than your CRT. Damn I used to be really excited about the new HD formats, but now I'm just getting pissed off.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Oct 2005 @ 15:39

47.10.2005 16:33
llongtheD
Inactive

The sad fact is that if they pull it off, there are alot of consumers that will accept it. They will then be herded like sheep through commercials to their local best buy, or circuit city to get a new monitor. If hollywood is able to do it I will have lost all faith in the average intelligence of the American consumer. You guys are right though, whatever protection they decide on will be broken fairly quickly.

57.10.2005 17:17

"..I will have lost all faith in the average intelligence of the American consumer" Hell, I did that after President Bush was elected...not once, but TWICE!!!

67.10.2005 17:49

It's too bad boycotts big enough to matter are so difficult to coordinate.

77.10.2005 19:31
llongtheD
Inactive

tanviper, no matter where you are, I hope your not still under the impression that your living in a democracy.


If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water.

87.10.2005 19:58
llongtheD
Inactive

How could we go about coordinating one big enough nonoitall, brainstorm some ideas. Thats what these forums are all about.


If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water.

97.10.2005 22:18

We'd need millions of people to make a dent. I have a hard time getting my dog to do what I want her to. I reeeeeally hate being pessimistic, but unless you have a good idea that I don't that can influence millions of people into boycotting music and video AND somehow verifying that they're doing so, I just don't think it's going to happen. The music and movie industries have manipulated it to the point where they not only control the way the media is viewed, but also a majority of the viewers. Most people don't feel the hatred toward the movie and music industries that you and I do. Maybe because they just don't give a sh*t, maybe because they're ignorant, or maybe because they get a cut of the profits too. It's only possible to coordinate so many people. The best I can see happening is the formation of some kind of non-profit anti-**AA organization, which would be kind of cool.

108.10.2005 2:53

daemonzx6: Persoanlly I think those people will get pissed and then start pirating movies because that will be the ONLY way for them to watch new movies at home. DVD's will go away sooner or later... Like over here, there isnt a single movie store that still sells VHS tapes. And no music store have some cassetes in stock... It might be years before DVD will be all away from the market but it will happen... you can be sure of that.

118.10.2005 9:41
ricrac
Inactive

I have read the other responses to the article, and although most have a good read on it, I have to take exception to a response that we as americans will just put up with it. We will be mad as hell about it as well but unless you have a viable way of stopping this don't take shots at us because we are americans. We will be in the same boat as you, for if it does happen, then "YOU" will be going to best buy, circuit city, etc., right along with the rest of us, if you want to watch the new movies. So maybe you should come off your righteous horse and admit you are no better than the rest of us.

128.10.2005 11:38
llongtheD
Inactive

ricrac, I think you've misunderstood what I was saying. I was only commenting on they way the media trys to manipulate the consumer. I myself am an American.

138.10.2005 19:58

EVERYONE throw open your windows an yell "I'M NOT GONNA TAKE THIS ANYMORE!" LET'S START A WORLDWIDE PROTEST: Don't by HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movie releases or the equiptment to play them on. F*ck them! I'm gonna buy another plasma TV because mine doesn't have whatsawhatsa connector? I'm so shuuuuuure! I just decided: regular DVD movies played with a component connector via a Progressive scan player on my present HDTV meet my visual needs completely!! End of the line, I'm not going to be controlled by the "Overworld" anymore! If Bush had (he's had 4 years) actually found Osama bin Platapus, we could give him the coordiates for the MPAA headquarters building and he could drive his airplanes into some truly evil people instead of killing innocents. OK, I know that comment was in really bad taste but ... I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE! I want them DEAD! ... I want their families DEAD! ... I want everyone who owes them money DEAD! Ok, Ok ... I feel better now ... gggrrr ... babble ... drool.

149.10.2005 11:16

what if you had dvi input, would that satisfy the requirements?

1510.10.2005 1:55
ricrac
Inactive

whisperer, I don't believe a word of your comments. Do you think that they are the first to pull this kind of stunt? If you do then you are sadly mistaken. Do you think that you have the latest or best computer on the market, think again. They already have newer and lots better computers, in storage just waiting for the right time to release them, and are working on ones to replace them. It's how they make money. Most people won't run right out and buy a new plasma tv, just because they won't be able to view hd movies. They will eventually, but not right away, because most people can't afford to do that. You will eventually do the same, but not until you can afford it or feel that it is worth it. The new hd movies probably won't come out until the middle of 06 anyway, if then. The other thing is, which way will the dvd format end up, hd dvd, or blu-ray. I'm not going to buy until I know for sure which way it goes.

1615.10.2005 9:27

This has all happened before...At the time it was the Betamax versus VHS tape affair. The public dutifully dropped their $1500 [at that time] Beta tape players and rushed out to buy $1500 VHS tape players. When I was in school, our class arranged with a local store for an experiment. We placed a table near the entrance and piled cheap items on it with a sale sign. The sign read 'Two for a nickel, three for a dime..' Over 90% percent of the customers bought the two for a nickel thinking they were getting the best deal. Most people can't think their way out of a wet paper bag. These are the same people that think the "Nature of the charge" is more important than if one is guilty or innocent... Think about it.........

1715.10.2005 11:43

this is is bullshit and will not fly with me as I already upgraded to HDTV and refuse to do it again

1815.10.2005 14:00

For the HD-DVD/BLU-RAY haters: It's going to happen, get over it. This isn't something you can stop; there are too many people who want what H.D. can provide.

1915.10.2005 14:11

dufas, wouldnt the people who bought 2 for a nickel be getting the deal, since if you just bought 4 items at 2 for a nickel each, it beats buying 3 for a dime, right?

2015.10.2005 14:23

I dont hate HD-DVD I just dont want to spend another 5k to get it when I already have a 2 nice 16/9 systems

2115.10.2005 14:24

atlnicca......You are correct, I get so "P" off when I read anything that the intertainment industry does that I screwed up... What happened back then was that over 90% boght the three for a dime choice and passed on the better deal, two for a nickel....sorry about that... Having , in another life, worked with the intertainment and movie studio types, I find that one can put more trust with a street gang than one can with the hollywood characters...........Most of them will screw their own mother for a buck and I mean that literally....

2215.10.2005 14:27

also creating a new media that many can not watch will also only fuel piracy

2315.10.2005 14:52

Addendum...The real reason for converting to digital TV is not to increase the rez of the picture. The high rez is just an added consumer feature. When I was closer to the entertainment industry, there was talk of digital TV. The talk was not centered on giving the consumer a great product, it was centered on protecting broadcast content and ways to keep people from making personal recordings from TV. It is about GREED. and CONTROL then, it is about GREED and CONTROL now. Remember, at this time, the entertainment industry just lost the Betamax case where they tried and failed to block the sale of Betamax recorders. At that time, there was another company, Toshiba, if I remember correctly, that announced a digital tape recorder that could be used for video and audio. It captured and recorded the complete video transmission including the overscan. It's replay was as if the TV studio was transmitting from next door. Excellent picture and sound. The entertainment dufases stopped the sale of that machine using the arguement that any tapes made from that machine could be used to make beta or vhs tapes that were as good as the legal studio's tapes offered for sale. Recently, they tried to use the same logic to block Tivo and failed at that... As far as TV recording and high definition...One can still record the video/audio by setting up a hi-def video camera on a tripod in front of the TV set and record all they want teh same method that is used in movie theaters only with near DVD quality...so no matter what is done, recordings will still be made. (Do a search using "dufas" within the afterdawn site to see a few of my other posts if you are interested..}

2415.10.2005 18:35

What it will take to turn the tide is a class-action lawsuit charging the ENTIRE media industry with theft by fraud. That includes CDs/DVDs/BluRays/etc. that won't play in my player or on my TV, or that I can't make a LEGAL backup copy of; cable programs that I'm paying for, but they're also selling advertising time on; satellite radio that I'm paying for, but they're loading with ads; movies that I pay to rent, but I have to sit thru some BS about the FBI & prison or (again) advertisements; intentionally hyped & drawn-out minutia masquerading as "network news" just because nothing "newsworthy" happened in the last 30 minutes; and all those other "little" ripoffs built into the global marketing scheme surrounding every form of entertainment.

2515.10.2005 18:48
llongtheD
Inactive

I hear what your saying. Unfortunately, the entertainment industry as a whole already has too many politicians in their pocket. Too many lobbyists. They have the american political machine behind them, and the only thing to come out on the good side of a fight with that has been microsoft. Who else has those kinds of resources. What now? I agree with you though, the only place to really hurt them is in the pocketbook.

2615.10.2005 18:51

You'd think it would be really easy to sue them. I mean, they sue P2P software providers because they're supposedly promoting illegal activity, so why not turn the tables? If they make every form of legal copying impossible, what kind of copying do you think people will be inclined to do? They're promoting illegal activities by preventing legal ones.

2715.10.2005 19:05
llongtheD
Inactive

So do you want to sue them for "promoting illegal activity"? I think we'd have better luck suing them for this bait and switch tactic they're using. Hey check out this cool new technology! Then a couple of years later...Oh we've developed a new interface thats more secure, the old ones obsolete, you'll have to buy new. There should be some resposibility in supporting their products.

2815.10.2005 20:34

I just think they're digging their own grave by forcing anyone who wants to copy something to become a criminal. It would be neat to see tech developers give them a piece of their own medicine though. :)

2920.10.2005 10:44

I have a fair investment in my computers and my HDTV but I am in no hurry to pick between formats. Currently I can record on DVD, I get a great picture, I can use some great ripping programs and I have a huge DVD collection. If I can't record I ain't buying.

3020.10.2005 14:58

I know assumption is the mother of all f%#k-ups, but i would assume that some type of set-top box converter - HDMI to component/s-video/scart etc will be available cheaply produced by some of the many south-east asia electronic producers? ... probably with a hard-disc recorder built in before too long!?! Sorry if I'm way off base, or miss the point, my humble tech knowledge is only minor.

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