AfterDawn: Tech news

Apple sued over iPod audio volume levels

Written by Petteri Pyyny (Google+) @ 03 Feb 2006 12:44 User comments (87)

Apple sued over iPod audio volume levels A customer has filed a class action complaint against Apple in California court claiming that Apple's mega-popular portable audio player, iPod, does allow too high level of music volume and doesn't state it clearly enough that using the product in high volume levels can cause hearing loss.
iPods sold in Europe are limited by device's firmware to maximum of 100 decibels, but units sold in States can produce sound levels of up to 115 decibels. According to the complaint "millions of consumers have had their hearing put at risk by Apple's conduct".

However, iPod manuals already state it clearly that using player's headphones at high volume levels can potentially cause permanent hearing loss. The complaint tries to override this by stating that Apple did not advise users about what constituted a high volume or a safe level of noise.

As a sidenote: the first portable audio player, that produces the same effect as iPods -- high audio levels via headphones, was called Sony Walkman and was first sold in 1979.

Source: Financial Times

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87 user comments

13.2.2006 12:58

Quote:
"millions of consumers have had their hearing put at risk by Apple's conduct"
Who are these people man?
Quote:
A customer has filed a class action complaint against Apple in California court claiming that Apple's mega-popular portable audio player, iPod, does allow too high level of music volume and doesn't state it clearly enough that using the product in high volume levels can cause hearing loss.
What part of
Quote:
iPod manuals already state it clearly that using player's headphones at high volume levels can potentially cause permanent hearing loss
Does this numb-nut not understand..? It's common sense that when it's too loud, turn it down! Surely this individual can tell when his/her music is ear-deafeningly loud! Not a hope in hell of winning this one imo.

23.2.2006 13:10

Yeah, the question is who are these retards who don't comprehend that PLAYING MUSIC TOO LOUDLY CAN CAUSE YOU TO GO DEAF?! Being stupid should really be a crime.

33.2.2006 13:16

Bahahahah!! Sorry, I really detest Apple and ALL of their products, but this is just hilarious. -Mike

43.2.2006 13:21

Sue happy people like this should be able to be countersued and if they can't pay go to jail.

53.2.2006 13:31
kingsklub
Inactive

Its people like this,in which our governments keep making tougher and more stricter safety standards.We,the general public are already consumed by too many health and safety regulations as it is.If these Ipod customer's win they're case,it could force all other manufacturers to further limit the decible levels of they"re media players.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2006 @ 3:01

63.2.2006 13:54

Quote:
It's common sense that when it's too loud, turn it down! Surely this individual can tell when his/her music is ear-deafeningly loud!
Isn't it common sense to release a product that doesn't have a volume that is able to cause permanent hearing loss??? I used to listen to my portable cd player at full years ago i never knew that it could cause hearing loss i was only like 11 and now i have a nice little ringing in my ears 24/7. Many kids have ipods? How many listen to them at full volume? How many will have hearing loss because Apple never made a volume restraint? People just don't look into things like how many disables it takes to mess up your hearing yes it is common sense but Apple should make a better effort. Nobody would sell say a PC that might shock you every time you opened it so why should Apple (and others) sell products that could affect your hearing?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2006 @ 14:04

73.2.2006 14:03

Quote:
Isn't it common sense to release a product that doesn't have a volume that is able to cause permanent hearing loss??? I used to listen to my portable cd player at full years ago i never knew that it could cause hearing loss i was only like 11 and know i have a nice little ringing in my ears 24/7
I agreee with this but I still think that Apple should state more clearly now that they know what can happen when you listen to loudly.

83.2.2006 14:08

I personally think the thing could be a tiny bit louder. If all music was exactly the same volume then I wouldn't have any problems with it. But some music is obviously recorded at a higher level then other music. I don't mind if they stamp the sides of the boxes saying it can hurt your hearing with a similiar warning as cigarette's but I most certaintly don't think the player should be made quieter.

93.2.2006 14:16
jmaestro
Inactive

Well, we all have learned from the Grokster case that if a product can be used illegally or incorrectly, then the company is liable. This ideal made just as little sense there as it does here.

103.2.2006 14:16

nearly all decent hi-fi systems can deafen you if you stand too close or turn it up too loud..

Quote:
[Isn't it common sense to release a product that doesn't have a volume that is able to cause permanent hearing loss???
It doesn't cause it, the user causes it by having the music on ridiculously loud. 75% sound is perfectly adequate in any environment.
Quote:
yes it is common sense but Apple should make a better effort
Why is the owness on Apple just because it is the most popular? I have a creative Zen touch, aswell as a few iPods, and the creative is actually louder~! So really, it is up to all sound manufacturers to correctly take the precautions.
Quote:
How many will have hearing loss because Apple never made a volume restraint?
The Apple iPod actually does have a sound cap on it! it can only be uncapped with special softwares such as iPodwizard, but it does exist, so that's another thing in Apple's favour.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2006 @ 14:20

113.2.2006 14:25

Have you guys ever seen The Darwin Awards? This is a similar concept - the lower-intelligence humans tend to be the first to go deaf. It's like a selective pressure on the human race, where will it lead? Could it backfire: suppose mostly the wealthy lose their hearing and the poor people can hear just fine, LoL ;^) Evolution is a complex business... Anyway, it's a fact - you can't legislate against stupidity. Regards


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123.2.2006 14:37

This is completely ludicrous. This is about as lame as the people that are angry at Mcdonalds for getting fat after eating fastfood. Ok now we had a cup of coffee too that Mcdonalds was suid over b.c it burned a customers tongue. These people dont have common sense that God gave a dog. Coffee is hot and risk burning you. Fastfood is fast and fast at calories and any idiot should know that loud noise can cause hearing loss.

133.2.2006 14:42

Sounds fair to me, I wasn't told that if I stood in front of a speeding train I could be killed, I should sue the makers of the trains. Fortunately I gained commonsense and the power to think logically as I grew older, obviously this wanker didn't. I wonder if anyone told him that his village phoned and they want their idiot back ;)

143.2.2006 14:43

this man is just such a moron..

153.2.2006 14:47

Quote:
it is up to all sound manufacturers to correctly take the precautions.
Exactly! That's why i think they (they as in all manufacturers not just Apple) should do something about it i mean all they have to do is release ear phones that are "ear safe" like Sony did with the PSP and people can then choose if they want to risk it and go out and buy louder ear phones.
Quote:
Why is the owness on Apple just because it is the most popular?
I know all to fine that Apple are not the only people that do this but the article is about them so i went with it :)
Quote:
The Apple iPod actually does have a sound cap on it! it can only be uncapped with special softwares such as iPodwizard
Sorry my bad i never knew that :) All in all suing is not the way to go but it will put pressure on manufacturers to do something about it, but hey what if it was you wouldn't you do something about it?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Feb 2006 @ 14:50

163.2.2006 14:53

I'm going to sue Anheiser Busch!!! Nowhere does it state on my beer kegs that continual mass consumption will lead to a vastly larger waist, requiring new clothes to comfortably fit into. :(

173.2.2006 15:03

p4_tt; sorry If I seemed a little grouchy in my previous post. I have been dealing with the n00bs all day and I forgot that there are still good, decent members around the forums ;-)

183.2.2006 15:05

No worries :) nothing like a good debate :P

193.2.2006 15:28
OzMick
Inactive

There are times when the supplied level of amplification is required, for instance when a song is not normalized when it is encoded and is recorded quiet. The additional gain is required, and in this case, it is possibly the recording studio's fault, or the source of the audio file, wherever that may be. This is not a fault by the company, I hope this just gets thrown out of court for stupidity, there is a warning in the manual. Ignorance is not a defence in court, and they probably didn't RTFM when they got their iPod. I like the linking to Darwinian theory, could be onto something there...

203.2.2006 15:59

Well this is just great. I hope this customer gets hit by a truck or something. "How many will have hearing loss because Apple never made a volume restraint?" How many people die in traffc because all the cars etc vehicles don't have some sort of speed limiter that would make it impossible to drive faster than it is allowed? How many idiots get themselves/others killed/hurt every day because there isn't some sort of global 24/7 surveillance system that would watch everyones ass and zap them if they try to fuck up? Put a big sign on the box that reminds high sound pressure can damage ears permanently and that's it. I loathe and despise it when the power output is limited so that you can't wreck your ears with some pitiful plugphones. Then when you try to use headphones that don't sound like shite so much you cant hear anything but whispers 'cause the stupid player won't give enough power to handle the bigger load of better quality phones. Sure you can buy/make a separate amp for the headphones but it's hardly convinient and costs money.

213.2.2006 16:03

Myrzan - Please don't swear. And just to clarify, there is a volume cap on iPods, which can be unlocked withthird party software.

223.2.2006 16:09

Whenever you get some kind of system doesn't it say read the manual before use or something like that.

233.2.2006 16:23

Two words: PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY Does it exist anymore?

243.2.2006 16:43

i agree with the previous post, come on now, another useless law suit?

253.2.2006 16:48

Ha only in America! Maybe I can sue all the bars and nightclubs for being to loud also.

263.2.2006 18:32

These people are so right. The other day I was driving 100+ on surface streets and I crash and damn near kill myself. Why was I not told that death existed?

273.2.2006 18:34

Quote:
Sorry, I really detest Apple and ALL of their products, but this is just hilarious.
you took the words out of my mouth Mike! As stupid of a lawsuit as this is, I would love to see the customer win just so apple will lose!

283.2.2006 19:16

WHAT I CANT HERE YOU YOU

293.2.2006 21:15

Could someone please explain why this is news? Who knowingly allows this s#*t to slide anyway? 100+ decibles is a very high amount of noise by any standard. You might as well put a person under a turbine while your at it. And finaly, for the person who would infact waste their future of hearing on the soul fact that you like "loud music", you are, in my eyes, the worst kind of idiot. Happy ear-bleeding everybody!

303.2.2006 21:28

I bet Apple are kicking themselves for not putting on a volume control such as a little button that decreases or increases volume. Oh wait they did. If people can't be arsed to turn down their music, be it ipod or cd player, then they deserve everything coming. Personally speaking if I couldn't hear too well I would pop along to the docs for a check up. Although this litigation is so daft, I bet Apple will lose.

314.2.2006 1:19
mark_d
Inactive

Too much of anything can harm you. As someone said earlier a person has to take some responsibility and decide when enough is enough. As far as the McDonald incident, the woman was driving with the hot coffee wedged in her crotch, but to her credit was driving with both hands on the wheel. She burned her lips. Big deal. I suppose she never cut her legs shaving? It all boils down(no pun intended)to sueing for trauma. But I suppose making an ass out of yourself by filing a lawsuit is OK.

324.2.2006 1:26

The iPod has a volume cap, a volume control, and also state in the manual that turning music up too loud can damage hearing.. so there is nothing more they can do. It's common sense to know that if you take a chainsaw to your fingers rather than the hedge, it will slicke your fingers of.. Is that clearly stated on the box/manual? It is just as clear as Apple have stated the warning of potential ear damage..

334.2.2006 1:29

"However, coffee cups already state that the contents are hot and can result in scalding. The complaint tries to override this by stating that McDonalds did not advise users about what is hot or a safe temperature." That is what I can see reading if the complaint is successful and Apple loses. Hearing loss isn't dependant on the decibel alone, but also on the time exposed to that level. A couple seconds in the 115 dB range probably won't cause hearing loss; while NIOSH states that anything over 2 1/2 hours at 90 dB could result in hearing loss. [QUOTE]How many people die in traffc because all the cars etc vehicles don't have some sort of speed limiter that would make it impossible to drive faster than it is allowed? [QUOTE] Actually all vehicles do come with governors to limit the maximum speed. Where I'm from that is usually set between 85 and 125 mph. So the problem lies in defining what the allowed speed should be. As of this coffee incident that everyone remembers... I heard the woman was in her late 70's early 80's in a stopped vehicle when she spilt the coffee on her lap. The coffee was determined to be about 158 degrees Fahrenheit (20 higher than household coffee) and caused third degree burns requiring a seven day stay in the hospital.

344.2.2006 5:31

I will laugh if Apple loses.

354.2.2006 6:01

This is CRAZY...I think we need to document every case like this and go shoot them all in the head...then if they survive, then they can sue the bullet makers for making a potentially hazardous product. I was listening to a friends iPod the other day and we were talking about how loud it could go. From there we just simply turned it down and continued to enjoy. I personally don't like Apple or the iPod, but still...if they lose this case, it will be a dark day for those with common sense. I hope they can pull this out and fight the stupidity.

364.2.2006 6:19

Apple supplies a "manual" to every person who buys one. I am not a fan of Apple either but let's face it, this is about making a quick buck, (probably for the attorney). What about concerts? The spl at a concert is easily over 110db. I don't remember getting a Flyer stating I am at risk of hearing loss at ANY concert I ever went to. Nor have there been announcements over the loudspeakers about the risk. Life IS a risk. We will lose the battle in our quest for imortality. And then about the coffee, being 158F. I just poured a cup of coffee and it is at 165F right now. You need near-boiling (212F) water to make coffee. I'm gonna sue Mr. Coffee for not telling me this. What they should do is make lawyers responsible for wasting the courts time with rediculous lawsuits. And, in ANY class action lawsuit, the only ones who make money ARE the attorneys.

374.2.2006 6:58
lanndy94
Inactive

hey i dont think it is apples falt because its not there falt that the people did that why is there a problem just because there friend said"hey if u turn it up all the way the ill give u $50 and so he did and now he has a hearing problem.

384.2.2006 7:20

hey yeah well that's so retarded cause in the iPod booklet thingy it does say that high volumes could cause permanent hearing loss that is just a waste of a compliant!!

394.2.2006 7:49

It's just another damn case of an American trying to get rich by finding loopholes in the law. Oh, and by the way the speed limiter on cars is really more to save the engine from being damaged, not from stopping you driving too fast. 125mph isn't really a limit for slowing you down, is it? Lol. Apple may be a rich fat cat corporation but they deserve to win this case, it's a load of rubbish.

404.2.2006 10:44

Quote:
I will laugh if Apple loses.
That's a bit of an understand on my part heheh! -Mike
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414.2.2006 10:52

Quote:
you took the words out of my mouth Mike! As stupid of a lawsuit as this is, I would love to see the customer win just so apple will lose!
Hehe, glad to see not everyone is obsessed with Apple and the iPod because of the marketing and advertising.. there are just so many other players out there that are just so much better.. in my local store it's £130 for a 1gb iPod Nano.. there's also a 20gb iRiver for £150 which has a hell of a lot more features, firmware upgrades, support etc (including a 2yr warranty included ;) ) -Mike
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424.2.2006 13:43

I just hate apple period. Their products are horrible. Like you said, there are mp3 players WAY better than the ipod, and thei mac computers are worthless. Why buy a computer that overpriced, underpowered, and isn't compatible with 99% of the software out there?


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434.2.2006 14:01

not to mention the overpriced songs on iTunes.




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444.2.2006 14:03

Yeah, I agree with the mac thing. I like my iPods, but only for the playlisting features. I have an 80gb archos PMP & Creative Z-T, but I never use them because they don't have the playlisting possibilites that the iPod does. I don't think it is a bad piece of kit. OK, soundwise it's not the best, but if you invest in decent headphones, (Like Sony Fontopes) adjust the EQ accordingly, and encode your music at a good quality (you should know, scoop, lol), Then you still get an extremely powerful sound.

Quote:
I just hate apple period
NAW! GET AWAY! with a sig like that, I would never have guessed that one, lol ;) @weazel - yeah, but who buys music online anyways! ;) -Anyone who pays for music online really doesn't appreciate good quality music. But this is going a little off-topic now, seeing as I am faced with the Apple-hater Mob!! Well, I hate macs, hate the iTunes music etc. Pretty much all of it. But away from all the hype of iPods, I still think it is a decent piece of kit... :)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2006 @ 14:06

454.2.2006 14:05

Feeding my hunger for Apple hating.. lol.. -Mike


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464.2.2006 14:18

i like the look of the iPods but sadly that's the only good thing I have to say about apple.




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474.2.2006 15:20

@ those who hate the iPod, have you ever used an iPod? I don't mean had a listen on a mates iPod, I mean connected it up, organized your playlists, synced with the PC etc? I personally think that Archos make the best portable jukeboxes, and the structural quality of the iPod is not the greatest. But a lot of people can easily jump on a bandwagon without actually using all the functions of an iPod. I actually hate basically everything about the iPods that I have except the playlisting functions + interface!

484.2.2006 18:27

Well, sorry but when I was eleven (as someone remembered back to earlier) I was not stupid enough to MAX out my volume. Sorry, but some kids are stupid and some are not. Some have common sense and some do not. I guess this is one sore spot that Darwin and others got it right==>natural selection; survival of the fittest; manifest destiny. All sorts of token works that mean one thing: Some people are brighter than others. If you are one of the retards who doesn't comprehend that playing music too loudly for extended periods can cause you to go deaf or have hearing problems, then you don't deserve to be told. Are we going to have to remind you to breathe or die? Do I have to tell you to hold your private part so you don't urinate on yourself when you go to the bathroom? Sorry, but wake up.



494.2.2006 19:15
jazo123
Inactive

It's Morons like the people who are sewing Apple that make life hard for the rest of us. If you bought a gun, would you shoot yourself? well, maybe thats not a good example. lol

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Feb 2006 @ 19:17

Please check out my iPod forum. Create an account and we'd be more than happy to help you out with your iPod questions.
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iPod FAQ: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/295183

504.2.2006 19:25

jesus f'ing christ, if the dumb shit is too stupid to know what too loud is then he or she should be locked up for their own safety and the rest of the public. sounds a lil like the whole product may be hot thing

514.2.2006 20:08

Personally, I hope that every one who reads this agrees with me on this one as I joined this forum for this one post. With regards to this situation, I am essentially astounded to hear of this absurdity! Do people really know what they are doing when they file such frivilous suits against undeserving companies? Do they care how they hurt the nation? ...as a group of individuals as well a symbol to the world. It is with great sorrow that I read about such events. I am appalled by this show, and others of the same calliber, that would use our dignity (as a nation) as a place mat... rather a roll of toilet paper, to do with as they would. I see this as little less then impenetrable imaturity and would wish the justice system a new pair of... I would hope to see this suit thrown from the court just as quickly as it entered. Sadly, in seeing that it is taking place in California, I am sure the plaintif will be walking away with a nice chunk of cash to replace their reputation to the rest of the knowing world. Harsh words? I think not. A bit rash but only with the intent of constructive criticism in mind. I know this post is only one of (I think it is nearing about 50 now)and I know that most likely none from outside this community will read it, but I feel too strongly about matters such as this to let it fester in my mind without a way of release. My only hope (besides having the imaturity in question read over this) is that someone agrees with me enough to aplaud this post, even if it is just in their heart.

524.2.2006 22:16
Ludikhris
Inactive

What? Turn them head phones up!! Turn em up!! Turn up the bass! What? Turn up my head phones!.... ok... uh.... Turn them shits up!! Turn em up!

535.2.2006 3:09
johnodd4
Inactive

this is funny the reason people have to turn the ipod's up so loud is because the ipod's converted mp3s to acc are so silent that you have to turn it up loud or you wont be able to here it. also if you have bad hearing to begin with from loud sound exposure you would need to turn it up anyways

545.2.2006 6:22

Xeros wrote: "Actually all vehicles do come with governors to limit the maximum speed. Where I'm from that is usually set between 85 and 125 mph. So the problem lies in defining what the allowed speed should be. " Nope, none do, not a none.

555.2.2006 6:46

Cars are typically governed to top speeds the tires are rated for! ie. 'H' rated = 200KPH; 'V' rated = 240KPH A car with unlimited top speed must be equipped with 'Z' rated tires ;^) Welcome JustOne06 - good post, we agree.

Quote:
Sorry, but some kids are stupid and some are not. Some have common sense and some do not.
I know! It's natural selection, LoL :^) In nature, if something is deaf it will probably die before it is able to reproduce... Therefore all the children of the '3rd world' (the Meek) shall inherit the Earth, if all the rich kids go deaf. To quote Tolkien: "A burned hand teaches best; after that, advice about Fire goes straight to the heart."
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565.2.2006 8:29

HAHAHAH man that is great, thats like the same shit as the one person trying to sue mcdonalds for being fat.... its like damn... people can sue everything and anything they want for whatever reason if they tried hard enough and had enough time and money on their hands hahaha but man... i definetly didnt see this one coming but for real... one thing i personally dont like about the volume control... is how everytime i go to reach in my pocket or change tracks.. i accidentally turn it up full blast!! and it can be annoying at times... they should have a volume lock button.. that would be cool to see in the next generation of ipods

575.2.2006 10:45

If people want to sue, they will. Sad reflection on modern soceity, and I'm afraid the USA started it. Nice to meet someone from the same ISP by the way, gallagher!

586.2.2006 1:38

Its like the warning on almost boiling hot coffee from restraunts ,but you know this stupidity has to end thif guy needs to be sued >> *L* Apple is ok by focuseing on hardware and software they made desent OS's till OS X verion 4 or some BS,its ture the Ipod aint all that it is ok tho. Altho the main thing that kept mac down was the lack of 3 button or wheel mice and other PC norms ...and now they've basicly become Intels bitch...its just sad.....

596.2.2006 1:52

Let the guy pay extortionate legal costs, that'll teach him.

606.2.2006 5:51

Oh! Oh! I got an idea. Let's sue cereal makers for not including that 1/2 cup of milk per serving they always put on the front (in the bowl) and side (in the nutrition information) of their boxes. :)

616.2.2006 8:42

And somebody hasn't already done that? Wow, better get going.

627.2.2006 2:22

there are some stupid dull and idiotic ppl in this world


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637.2.2006 12:53

This sounds to me a lot like the woman who sued McDonald's because her coffee was too hot.

648.2.2006 11:56

We could all list stories about absurd law suits, there are just too many of them, to see the best ones, google the "stella awards"

658.2.2006 16:12
jazo123
Inactive

mrbungle8-- that's why they made the hold switch on the top of the ipod, so you dont turn up the volume accidentaly


Please check out my iPod forum. Create an account and we'd be more than happy to help you out with your iPod questions.
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669.2.2006 2:00

Yeah I thought there was one.




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6711.2.2006 8:58

"iPod manuals already state it clearly that using player's headphones at high volume levels can potentially cause permanent hearing loss"... ...and potentially death from using high volume levels on public transport whilst listening to Hard Rock, Trance, or any other repetitive, stupor-inducing music.

6811.2.2006 11:29

Not to mention crossing the road and hitting oncoming traffic, along with probably not mention possible fire if plugging it directly into mains, not telling you not to eat the headphones, and probably not telling you not to listen to the ipod whilst on fire. I could go on, but if it doesn't say no in the manual, these sad people sue about it.

6911.2.2006 22:40

...Why is this still news!?


If Im online, Im usually on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Rikorage

7012.2.2006 0:32

No one seems to have anything better to talk about.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7113.2.2006 6:35

I read this article with interest and initially decided not to respond to it, since it seems quite clear to me that it doesn’t require a rocket scientist to solve. Now being that I’m not one, I guess until he/she weighs in I’m at liberty to say my $0.02. So here goes. This is directed at both the active & passive advocates of the complainant. If further legislature has to be passed to mandate that Apple amend the volume control of the ipod and the customer is not held accountable despite the existing warnings(as I have read since I don’t know this for a fact and even if it’s not true it doesn’t negate my point) then we are setting the stage for censorship of commom sense and possibly other basic freedoms. I’ll use an analogy to illustrate my point . So many of us visit AD of our own volition. Despite there being a 3 minute delay for newbies the AD fraternity appears to be rapidly growing so people tolerate/ignore this inconvenience because they have a sense of curiousity/fascination with or addiction to this site. Though this is admirable, DRD & Admin ought to be ashamed of themselves as they are infact committing many unspeakable crimes and ought to be severely penalized for it. I hope I have your attention now. What are the detriments of investing time at this/any site?. 1. MEDICAL IMPLICATIONS (a) Because of the time spent typing on your keyboard you are prone to carpal tunnel syndrome, osteoarthritis, splinter hemorrhages. Some of these diseases are reversible with medical/surgical intervention while others are progressive and degenerative. (b) The sedentary posture associated with being at the computer denies one the opportunity to actually get up and exercise so that you are at risk for obesity. Obesity in turn predisposes to Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus, Hypertension, Atherosclerosis and hence Coronary artery disease with the ominous possibility of Angina Pectoris and even a cardiac arrest. Obesity also predisposes to increased weight bearing on the joints of your lower limbs which increases the risk of early Osteoarthritis. Not to mention that morbid obesity can infact lead to being confined to bed with possible loss of muscle mass (disuse atrophy), bone mass , depression, increased risk of Othostatic Pneumonia and decubitus ulcers, especially if there is concomitant Diabetes Mellitus. I’ll not even talk about the cost of prescription drugs and the inadequacies of medical insurance. (c) I’m sure that everyone who comes here also has good orthopaedic support for their lower back so as not to end up with a prolapsed intervertebral disc. Otherwise be sure to write to Admin requesting one or join the class action suit for disability (d) The lack of sleep not only causes ‘red eyes’ but for those who are teenagers and younger you need adequate sleep in order to facilitate normal secretion of growth hormone which is necessary for growth. So you can actually end up with a shorter stature than you would have if you spent less time at AD and got more sleep. For all ages you need 7-8 hours sleep for adequate Cortisol hormone secretion and this hormone controls so many functions. 2. SOCIAL REPERCUSSIONS (a) There is also the neglect of family/relatives/pets which can lead to a dysfunctional family unit with the increase risk of suicide for the neglected spouse and drug abuse and illegal activities on the part of the children. This ofcourse on a macro level leads to degradation of the social fabric of any society and ultimately it’s demise. Lest I forget you could also be charged with animal cruelty/neglect by local authorities which carries a fine or jail time. This is will obviously warrant medical intervention with its inherent economic ramifications. 3. ECONOMIC RAMIFICATIONS (a) All the above have a cost attached to them which will undoubtedly be passed to guess who……yep, YOU!!.(assuming you’re employed) or your parents or whomever supports you. This also means less budgetary allocations for the already stretched social service resources. (b) If a legislature has to be passed to make AD accountable for all these crimes, then it going to take several man hours and a special commission to review this problem all at an additional cost. (c) Speaking of man hours, think of the time lost woefully typing away at AD on your company’s computer or your own. It does use power and the utility bill has to be payed. SOLUTIONS Ok that was a mouthful to illustrate my point about personal responsibility and that of the company and government. If Apple is found culpable, think of the backlash of frivolous cases that will ensue and ultimately the censorship that will have to be imposed to prevent it. In all of this you have to remember that the hearing impaired would rather it louder, so what a conundrum. The volume control "thingy" is specifically for this reason. What more can one ask for. As one person pointed out earlier….do you need instructions to breathe?. With regards to AD I think that Admin should sit down asap and code software to identify anyone who posts anything advocating the customer wining and then place an IP restriction on them so they can only post every 24hrs in order to prevent them from filing a suit for the above mentioned complaints. In fact take a proactive position like Sony BMG and code software which after you setup your account at AD it back doors through your browser and sits on your computer so that once there is any mention of supporting the anti-Apple customer this is sent back to AD, and AD can then apply its 24hr IP restriction. Certainly the US government can’t penalize AD for this clandestine behaviour since you are doing it to reduce the morbidity and mortality associated with addiction to this site. Since the US president did wire tapping and proports to have thwarted another type of clandestine activity,(and that seems to be acceptable to many), then if AD is also saving lives and ensuring the well-being of it's users by it’s trojan/spyware then the judiciary system ought to look favourably on this as well. AD could even state that it leaves spyware on your computer and you know what?, people would still ignore it just like the Apple warnings(if they exist as I am led to believe) and turn around and sue. In parting all I can say is, if you want to have your cake and eat it, then have the good sense to pick up a fork and manoeuver it yourself. Otherwise you are asking to be spoon-fed. The thing is, after awhile it might just be shoved down your throat involuntarily and may no longer appeal to your palate. Kinda leaves a bad taste in your mouth, doesn’t it?.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Feb 2006 @ 7:09


7213.2.2006 7:05

Erm.... what? There's no need to go to lengths like that to illustrate a point. Speak normally like the rest of us, if you please. I appreciate you listing the negative effects of visiting AD in all their detail, but it's not relevant to the article, even if all discussion outside it is "it's stupid" and "he's a nutter" and the likes.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7313.2.2006 7:14

I see you missed the point entirely. Maybe you should actually try to read it. Then you'll see the irony. Btw I distinctly recall this thread being started by Lethal who is someone who I respect so I'd never even think of posting something stupid/nutty (or any other intellectually challenged rhetoric) in his thread or any other for that matter. If my post is too superfluous or complex for you then simply ignore it, no need to be immature and obnoxious. Maybe I should have included a disclaimer for you. BTW judging by your response you really do need to read the highlighted part about the growth hormone secretion and sleep.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Feb 2006 @ 7:37


7413.2.2006 8:42

No, in some ways I agree with you, but I don't think it was necessary for you to write all that you did in the manner that you did. Everyone's entitled to write what they like (within reason) and I'm not penalising you for what you wrote, but it seems a bit thomas hardy. I'm sure you could have echoed the same points in half the words. You might think otherwise, but some people prefer not to read enormous posts if they don't think they'll gleam much of use from them. As it happens i read all of it. To be completely fair, the last past of your post is fine, but from the start of medical impilications to the end of economic ramifactions is merely waffling on about what could, in rare extreme well under a percent cases of extreme forum addiction. If you feel like telling people how you feel about people visiting forums, that's what the general conversation and safety valve forum is for. The rest of the argument, however is perfectly coherent. With regard to the IP blocking I'm not quite with you on your motive. Surely you don't need to use Afterdawn to create your own lawsuit based on what this guy has done?




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7513.2.2006 11:47

OK Sam point taken, but if you read the very first highlight it mentions the word volition which as you know means voluntary. My "waffle" as you said, was superfluous, but I only used AD to illustrate my point since we are here posting and we all love this site. I dredged up a whole bunch of stuff which some people might not have thought of. I didn't even think of it until I started writing it. The point is that one comes here voluntarily and if by some freak of nature any of my hypothetical scenarios does occur, then AD CANNOT be held accountable for their voluntary actions. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head. The individual has to take responsibily for their action and not point a finger. The ridiculous IP thing at the end was just me demonstarting that with each frivolous suite filed, more censorship will occur and some unpopular actions will occur which will always leave some upset so where do we stop. What if AD closes it's doors because someone wins a suit based on my hypothetical waffle. By the same token what if Apple decides to stop making the ipod because of other nuances which people have with it, what then?. Wouldn't you agree that that would be a travesty of justice. I think the active advocates and opponents of the anti-Apple consumer know where there lines are drawn but for the passive advocates who say yeah let him/her go ahead and win because Apple is a so and so.....I think that they might want to review the ramifications of that. I'm sure there are a few persons who were banned from this site that would be more than happy to see its demise. I now wonder since I have made a parity which is close to 'home', if some active & passive advocates still feel that the individual should win despite the cost to the wider population. I know the waffling was kinda heavy but it's not far from the truth in terms of it's content. I myself am a disenchanted Sony faithful but I wouldn't say down with Sony. I'd simply go and by a Dell, etc. I really do need to learn how to be concise. Point taken. Btw what's wrong with being like uncle Thomas?, :-)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Feb 2006 @ 12:03


7613.2.2006 13:15

Not much is wrong with it, but it's a bit tedious IF you choose to read it. You don't have to, but I can't really respond to you if i haven't. I agree the situations you posted would be travesties of justice, but personally I can't see them happening. If anybody does think down with AD after being banned, then so be it. Anyone dumb enough to get banned from a forum doesn't really have a valid say in the matter anyway.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7713.2.2006 13:47

I concur.



7814.2.2006 0:47

Lol sorry I seem to have really ticked you off, I didn't mean it, I just have a habit of voicing my opinion, sometimes it comes out a little mean. I'm nice really! :D :D




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7914.2.2006 5:52

I have no doubt about you being nice *cough, cough* Actually that was the first time I retaliated for what I presumed to be an insult and even then I didn't write anything like WT...followed by a bunch of number signs, asterisks, etc. I wouldn't do that anyways. Once you responded I realized that you were an adult and I kinda felt bad about the cheeky comment I made at the end of that post, so please forgive me for that. I was put off by your post but not over the top upset. Been on planet earth awhile so I've learnt to deal with a lot of provocation. Just happy to know that we quickly resolved this misunderstanding. Didn't want to have to use my Walter PPK on you, lol. Cheers mate.



8014.2.2006 23:50

Lol that's fine. An adult, hmmmmm can I get away with that? I was born in 1988 I'm afraid, maybe a little later than you thought. Never mind. What else really is there to say about this? I'm quite amazed we've strung it out this long as it is.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

8116.2.2006 6:33

Well Sam I see I was right!!. Nonetheless all the more reason why I'll commend you for having read all of my dribble and took the time to critique it. Now GO TO BED!!! and get some sleep, so up don't end up being growth retarded. Oh yeah......and remember to have your wheates in the morning and eat your vegetables and....... lmao Actually the truth be told at your current age your bone growth is pretty much complete for life so sleeping is not going to change that but growth hormone is really needed for lots of other functions.(I can see you shaking your head, but I just couldn't help it). How do you say, "my bad",lol



8216.2.2006 10:01

There's something amusing about being 17 and seeing "senior member" underneath you're name...




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

8316.2.2006 13:25

We're so way off topic and I try not to do that but let me clarify this. There are members of Admin, Addicts & Seniors who are in their late teens and there are newbies who are just a fews years junior to Methuselah. I'm older than 17, but thanks for the compliment :)



8416.2.2006 13:57

Lol, not exactly what I intended but OK! It does make you wonder about people thinking about that. See you around in the forums.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

8516.2.2006 16:48

Hey Sam, I know what you meant. Just kidding with you. I was just promoted to Senior 2 days ago so I thought I'd pull your leg. It's commendable that you're a Senior at a young age but as you well know it carries more responsibility as people will expect more well informed responses. See ya around too and the exchange was fun :)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2006 @ 16:57


8621.2.2006 1:31

It all comes down to one thing, ur warned of the risk when listening to music at high volume, apple and ipod warn you of this, i personally listen to my ipod at jst over half full on the volume meter everyone has their prefrences and different sensitivity of the ears to make it simple, if it hurts turn it down!


Time is a Lie Which We All Watch With Eager Eyes

8721.2.2006 7:11

Although that isn't enough on its own, have common sense. With headphones my Mp3 player doesn't see above two thirds usually.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

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