AfterDawn: Tech news

Spain outlaws all P2P file sharing

Written by Dave Horvath @ 29 Jun 2006 6:12 User comments (134)

Spain outlaws all P2P file sharing Spanish Congress announced a new legislation that outlaws all P2P file sharing on personal computers owned and operated in the country of Spain. Congress unanimously approved this legislation as a civil offense where users caught downloading anything via P2P for personal or commercial use will be fined the amount lost by the licensee due to the download.
The government has also stated that they will single out the ISPs who facilitate the use of P2P file sharing. They believe they have the technology to block P2P traffic and will fine ISPs who allow this traffic to go through.

Spain has also suggested a tax levy in which most forms of digital media will receive a higher tax. CDs, DVDs, flash drives and even mobile phones will get hit with a tax penalty merely for the ability to load illegal content. They have said that the money collected by these taxes will go towards paying back owners of copyrighted materials. This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes? Appears to be a situation of putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.

Source:
TMCnet

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134 user comments

129.6.2006 7:05

Wonder if other countries will follow suit? Makes you wonder what else they can tax.

229.6.2006 7:28

"They believe they have the technology to block P2P traffic and will fine ISPs who allow this traffic to go through. " This sounds a little vague to me. They either know or don't know, there's none of this believe crap.

329.6.2006 7:41

Seems stupid to tax people on the assumption that they're going to load illegal media onto a disk and then arrest them when they do. Cause if you dont load media on it, aren't you in fact wasting your tax dollars. "All tax dollars go directly to the music and movie industry, donnot pass go, donnot collect 200 dollars."

429.6.2006 7:43

If the MPAA and RIAA are being paid money from taxes reguardless, seems unfair because they're caking out whether anyone downloadsd illegaly or not.

529.6.2006 8:16
llongtheD
Inactive

I guess now they should impose a heavy tax when we buy a car, because we might drink and drive in it. Or maybe a tax on pens and pencils because we might plagiarize something. Or how about on spray paint, cause we might vandalize something? Penalizing people for crimes they might perpetrate? This has got to be the single dumbest piece of legislation I have ever heard of. Sounds like Spains lawmakers are even deeper in the pockets of big business. This is getting scary now. Just think if any large corporation wants taxes for possible future crimes. It sets a very bad precident. Say goodbye to your freedom, in a few years, large corporations may control everything we do.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Jun 2006 @ 8:25

If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water.

629.6.2006 8:17

Listen to the sound of Spain's gvmnt rolling over completely to the media cabal. Pretty sad really.

729.6.2006 8:48

Actually, we have a similar tax in the USA, with one BIG difference: The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 made it legal to copy audio recordings for personal non-commercial use. There is a "royality" collected on audio recorders and blank media. This includes blank CDs that are labeled "for audio use" and CD audio recorders. But, the royality is not collected on regular blank CDs or computer CD burners, because they can also be used for recording data.

829.6.2006 9:10
Irish13
Inactive

If something like that came to Canada I would be very annoyed. We already have a tax on blank media so if they want to shut down all P2P as well I would love to see a mass cancelation of your internet service. We have two main suppliers here Rogers and Bell. A great way to protest would be for 10,000 or more people to cancel their service at the same time when a law gets passed. This would put the ISP's in a panick and start a real dialogue in the press about what's really going on.

929.6.2006 9:26

What a lame effort employed by Spain. A tax to curb piracy, by charging innocent customers for it, this has the stench of lobbyism all over it. Anyways, it comes to show how bribery can affect just about anything in legislation. Shame on the Spanish Congress.

1029.6.2006 9:27

>>> will be fined the amount lost by the licensee due to the download. Ha! NOT A BAD DEAL!!! So, if I get caught with an illegal song-download, I only have to pay the regular price? The OEM version of WinXP pro is about $150 USD. If I steal a copy, it's free if I don't get caught. If I do get caught, I only have to pay for their actual loss of license revenue... That should be less LESS Than $150 since I don't have to pay distribution costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit, or any penalty! P.S I don't actually steal music or software.

1129.6.2006 10:41
OzMick
Inactive

That is exactly what I was thinking. And by having this fine set at what the software is worth, it probably indemnifies you from future lawsuits if you get caught and cough up, so it probably isn't such a bad deal, really.

1229.6.2006 10:41

Quote:
That should be less LESS Than $150 since I don't have to pay distribution costs, manufacturing costs, retail profit, or any penalty!
A positive way to look at it, but you know that they're going to pull out all of the stops as far as the price goes.

1329.6.2006 11:01

the bigger issue is that they will procicute you weather it isa legal download or a bootleg what happens if your sharing something with a fellow devloper to crate a game or just a video then you get fined for doing your job what a load of crap it really smells like someone got paid off to pass this not to mention the taxes that are going to be added just because you could download to it so there goes all their Ipod sales in spain not to mention laptops even tevo or my childs psp would get hit... so what spain has done has made their own country men take a step back away from technology because the will have to pay more in taxes just in case the go rouge..... all I can say is WOW....

1429.6.2006 11:53

HOLY CRAP! No rest for the downloader!

1529.6.2006 12:35

This is totally absurd. Not all P2P traffic is of the so-called illegal variety. The 'bigger hammer' approach is doomed to failure. I would guess Spain will become the leader in research and deployment of encrypted networks.

1629.6.2006 14:25
jziman
Inactive

Sad. I wonder what this world is coming to.

1729.6.2006 14:51

It`s time to start thinking of other ways to share files.

1829.6.2006 15:56

WOW. My jaw dropped reading this. I guess those damn spaniards don't want to embrace technology. Thats why they suck nuts at the world cup.

1929.6.2006 16:01

it wont stop p2p sharing

2029.6.2006 16:01

Does this mean that all Spaniads who DON'T get arrested for P2P violation can claim a tax refund at the end of the year for the media they've purchased and used "legitimately"??? Trev

2129.6.2006 16:09
Ballpyhon
Inactive

@ llongtheD you forgot about guns and ammo. they have to tax those too alot more so in order to pay out to the victem's relief funds when murderers kill inocent people. it all boils down to the fact that rich people want to stay rich while keeping the poor man down. do you really think that anyone who makes over $500 k a year (most of the supporters/beneficiaries of these rediculous acts) is really going to be impacted much if they lose a few hundred thousand dollars over a lifetime? they probably wouldnt even notice it if someone doesnt say "hey, where is that money at?" at least compared to someone like myself who only makes $20k a year. of coarse i would make a fuss over loseing a few hundred dollars, but if someone took 50 cents from me do you think i am going to call the authorities and file charges?

2229.6.2006 17:25

Shame on spanish legislators! Shame on the S.G.A.E., the real spanish "maFFia"! Shame on the lame and greedy "artists" that support this nonsense (Teddy Bautista, Ramoncin...) As musician my music is under CreativeCommons licence and I encourage anyone to copy and distribute it freely. Long live the brave that fight this unjust law. To the Hell the "canon" (tax) on blank media! I love donkeys, so does it makes me a criminal? So, be it! As catalonian (better than spanish)and creator myself I will always fight this stupid country. Best!

2329.6.2006 17:49

ballpyhon, If 10% of the population took 1 cent from you, you would be pissed. (im all about downloading but i can see there side too).

2429.6.2006 17:55

(Oh well, .....) Isn't this the same country whose legislators actively endorse (and profit from) the tortuing and slow slaughter of innocent animals in the Bull Ring? (Forgive me if I don't stand up and yell "OLE!")

2529.6.2006 18:07

all P2P is used for illegal sharing... all e-mail is spam... all websites are porn... welcome back to middle ages... oh wait, where did The Inquisition happened?...

2629.6.2006 19:07

You can bet the EU aka the new Nazi Party, is behind this move..do as I say or else. Spain is just an easy target be it immigration or prohibitive file swapping laws. I propose a ban on EU funding/wastage..

2729.6.2006 19:13

It screams politics, i.e totally unrepresentative of the Spanish people and instead representative of yet another minority interested..

2829.6.2006 19:16

I hope it's challenged in a court..I also hope these countries pay just as much attention to their immigration, health, education and transport systems as they do letting Big Brother control democracy..

2929.6.2006 20:57

Oh, and after we tax digital media, then we have to tax removable hard drives, then hard drives in general, then any form of computing device that could conceivably ever be used to hold "illegal" files.

3029.6.2006 21:06

Well, little by little we are being thrown back to the Stone Age...Will a photo steal my soul?

3129.6.2006 21:52

If your photo is copyrighted...yes. Yes, it will.

3229.6.2006 21:56
Ballpyhon
Inactive

themind 10% of the population doesnt want to take 1 cent from me because its only worth a cent. if i made as much money as most these fools introducing these moronic laws (more money then one person could spend in a life time) and people who felt they wanted a chunck of what i have took it (and we all know they are FAR FROM STARVING and ist not stopping them from being able to pay the bills) i wouldnt mind that much. ask your self this, is taking an excess of money away from the already rich worse then taking money from someone needs it to put pay for the single meal that he is able to buy once a day, like myself?

3329.6.2006 21:56

This is crazy!!!! what are they going to do if someone uses a P2P program to download a picture that a kid made(not copy righted). Are their going to fine that person for the cost of the crayon that the kid used? Or maybe for the cost of the crayon sharpener. Or better yet for the paper that they used.

3429.6.2006 22:13

@keebles: Nay hombre! This nmoney will go directly to the real thiefs!!! >>>http://www.todoscontraelcanon.es/<<< Basta!

3529.6.2006 22:30

I agree the spanish have gone to far, but isn't it the fault of the media producers, if they hadn't made blank CD's and DVD's so cheep then all of the P2P's would not have been able to afford to copy or burn off so many copies. If they had charged an appropriate fee on top of the cost of the blanks and paid the fee into a bank from which all artists could be paid a fee for their work then all of us would be contributing fairly. The main problem is that the Big Guns want it all, exorbatant prices for the CD's and DVD's and a kickback from the sales of blanks.

3629.6.2006 23:06
natony
Inactive

So, higher taxes on digital mediua devices. Does this mean the average Spaniard should feel justified in downloading a few songs illegally to recoup this extra tax?

3730.6.2006 2:00

pretty much sucks for any legal aspects of p2p, shame spain was always such a nice country, guess next year i'll have to be careful when i downlod southpark on holiday

3830.6.2006 2:03

It's a shame freenet is so slow and cumbersome. Let's hope it matures into a more speedy alternative.

3930.6.2006 2:41

If I lived in Spain I think i would organize sit ins in movie theaters. I would also have staggered media free weeks throughout the month. Evey other week would be a family week. NO TV watching NO movie going NO rentals no corporate music. Id take everything back to grassroots. SCREW them! I'd hit them in their pocket, thats obviously their number one prioity. Good luck much love, emancipate yourself from corpate greed.

4030.6.2006 3:22

doubt very much that they will stop p2p altogether... and wont this just increase the demand for copied dvds, cds from people who smuggle them into the country????? feeding crime has to be worse then some dude sat at his computer, with a cup of coffeee waiting for a film to download!!!!!!

4130.6.2006 4:38
w8vem8ker
Inactive

They may control the internet but they'll never stop the sneakernet.

4230.6.2006 4:54

ok, first of all please stop saying stupid things about Spain right? second, that news is very inaccurate. P2P is not illegal in Spain. What this law says is that in order to make a private copy you need to have the original, i mean, you can make a back up of one of your records (or whatever) just as long as you have the original whereas before it was legal to download a backup from the internet, thatīs changed now and you cannot download it but that does not mean p2p is illegal, no way.

4330.6.2006 5:25

That makes more sense @gonzax. But in any event, it's not the artist, it's the companys producing, distributing and marketing the ones that want everybody screwed. They're the ones making you pay such high prices for everything, and the ones that wouldn't allow a penny drop off their greedy hands. There's no way P2P is gonna be stopped. Technology cannot be stopped. At least that's what I think. :D

4430.6.2006 5:34
gogochar
Inactive

1. This WON'T stop P2P file sharing. 2. A lot of the stuff that you can download from P2P networks doesn't involve copyrighted material. Our company sends BitTorrents on the programs that they want us to install on our computers. It's easier for them and safe for us. And this way is super legal. This was what BitTorrent was made for! 3. Spain made a poor choice. They might as well block off the entire Internet! Obviously the Spanish Congress didn't look at every possible angle to see how this would effect them.

4530.6.2006 6:11

gogochar, please read my message above!! internet is unstoppable and it would be absurd trying to declare illegal all p2p as there are hundreds of perfectly legal file sharing sites. Prices are abusive but they never talk about that, its really sad!

4630.6.2006 6:48
ezyway67
Inactive

so let me get this straight you buy a computer that is capable of file sharing....all is good....they tax you because it is capable of file sharing...would'nt this mean you paid for what you might download so there for its yours to download it seems to me that all this tax would achive is you pay before you download therefore it is no longer breaking their boneheaded laws....this would also mean that the movies sooks would have to goto the goverment to get their money.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

4730.6.2006 8:21

If I remember correctly, the Spanish have a celebration called the tomatina where they waste approximately 100 tons, throwing them at one another. That could feed a lot of people, notably the poor, but no! Let's senselessly waste food by bashing them on each other's heads, right....right... As mentioned by the moderator, they infuriate the bull and give this animal a slow and torturous death, and also they are rude in hotels. Well there you have it, is it a surprise the Spanish would enact a ridiculous law like this, look at their country and their pastimes. Fruitiness like that was bound to happen.

4830.6.2006 8:36

hot ice, please donīt get offended but i canīt believe someone can be so stupid as to say what you just said. Do you think everybody in Spain likes bullfighting? come on! as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that. tell me where you are from so that i can go searching for something stupid from your country to criticize it, sure there is something!

4930.6.2006 8:58

Point made I think, is the fact that legislators all around are just passing bills without too much consideration. As they were elected by the people and in reality are working for the big bucks, not the very people that elected them. So again, it's not the country but it's legislators.


Chuck

"Men are slower to recognize blessings than misfortunes." Titus Livius (59BC-17AD)

5030.6.2006 9:56

I've lived in Spain..they are some of the most warm, sociable, friendly, patriotic people on the face of the planet. Their heritage (yes bar things like bullfighting), is rich and unlike other countries they are very protective of it. I agree that such moves are not made by the people, for the people..they are made for other reasons, often by un-elected individuals. In now way would I want this to tar Spaniards or appear representative of them in general. Europe is going through some changes due to things such as the EU, and a lot of these laws have more in common with global interests than common sense.

5130.6.2006 10:35

@gonzax What does a satirist's remarks have to do with intelligence? "hot ice, please donīt get offended but i canīt believe someone can be so stupid as to say what you just said" That's considered to be an insinuation, regardless, it has no merit whatsoever. Everything is open to interpretation, if you want to be narrow minded about it, then chose so, on your own time. "Do you think everybody in Spain likes bullfighting? come on!" That not the issue, I don't believe we should torture animals by spearing them to a bloody death, whether or not Spaniards agree with that practice makes little or no difference, since it is still ongoing and nobody cares to put an end to it. "as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that" Wasting a 100 tonnes of tomatoes is no laughing matter. I bet you wouldn't be laughing if you were starving in Ethiopia right of this moment, and you just wish that one of those tomatoes wasted could to you. No, of course not, you're not starving, so how would you know. "tell me where you are from so that i can go searching for something stupid from your country to criticize it, sure there is something" Heaven; tell me what damning piece of criticism you find on it. Thanx. @wild9 "I've lived in Spain..they are some of the most warm, sociable, friendly, patriotic people on the face of the planet" Everybody is entitled to their opinions. I still found that man to be rude at the hotel. Point final. "Their heritage (yes bar things like bullfighting)" I can't see past that, sorry. I find it to be rather cruel: the same standard applies to West Africa, with the practice of clitoridectomy being part of their heritage. Both are cruel and unecessary, and both practices should cease to exist.

5230.6.2006 10:49

Of course I disagree with bullfighting, but bullfighting does not represent everything to do with Spanish heritige and culture.

5330.6.2006 10:52

I am sorry you found the man to be rude as well..I should have said 'on the whole' when I referred to the Spaniards, as naturally every society has a section who have issues.

5430.6.2006 13:07

They are joking right?!!?!? P2P isn't even illegal really (well is in Spain now!)!!! There are loads of other uses for P2P than piracy... People will have to use encyption and speeds will suuuck

5530.6.2006 13:21
Ballpyhon
Inactive

@ gonzax so tell me this, if you are allowed to have a backup of meterial you own, would it be violating copyright laws if you download a copy of software to have as a backup as long as you buy a copy of the software before you download it?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Jun 2006 @ 13:23

There's no right, there's no wrong, there is only popular opinion.

5630.6.2006 14:19

"Do you think everybody in Spain likes bullfighting? come on!" That not the issue, I don't believe we should torture animals by spearing them to a bloody death, whether or not Spaniards agree with that practice makes little or no difference, since it is still ongoing and nobody cares to put an end to it. WRONG AGAIN, A LOT OF PEOPLE CARE ABOUT IT. FIRST OF ALL, IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE BULLFIGHTING IN THE NORTH OF SPAIN, THATS A TRADITION MOSTLY FROM THE SOUTH AND IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE AROUND SPAIN ABOUT BULLFIGHTING YOU WOULD FIND THAT A GOOD 50% WOULD BE AGAINST IT. AS FOR MYSELF, WELL, I AM COMPLETELY AGAINST TORTURING ANIMALS IN CASE YOU ARE WONDERING. "as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that" Wasting a 100 tonnes of tomatoes is no laughing matter. I bet you wouldn't be laughing if you were starving in Ethiopia right of this moment, and you just wish that one of those tomatoes wasted could to you. No, of course not, you're not starving, so how would you know. THATīS CALLED DEMAGOGY. WE ALSO HAVE LOTS OF CELEBRATIONS WITH WINE AND ALL KINDS OF FOOD JUST LIKE MANY OTHER CULTURES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? STOP ALL THOSE CELEBRATIONS AND SEND THE MONEY TO ETHIOPIA? THEN, WHY DONīT YOU SEND ALL YOUR WAGE TO THEM OR WHY DONīT YOU STOP EATING AND DRINKING, I AM SURE YOU COULD DO WITHOUT A LOT OF THINGS AND USE THAT MONEY FOR THOSE PEOPLE. COME ON GUY, FOR GODīS SAKE,WAKE UP! "tell me where you are from so that i can go searching for something stupid from your country to criticize it, sure there is something" Heaven; tell me what damning piece of criticism you find on it. Thanx. HEAVEN? WHAT DO YOU MEAN, CATHOLIC HEAVEN? I COULD FIND MILLIONS OF THINGS IF THATS WHAT YOU MEAN. Ballpyhon (Newbie) 30 June 2006 17:21 @ gonzax so tell me this, if you are allowed to have a backup of meterial you own, would it be violating copyright laws if you download a copy of software to have as a backup as long as you buy a copy of the software before you download it? I GUESS SO BUT I REALLY CANīT TELL YOU SORRY, LAWS ARE A BIT AMBIGUOUS SOMETIMES. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5730.6.2006 14:22

This will just result in more lawlessness.....there will be a new cartel....a media cartel...there will be media lords with more money than drug lords. Take away what people want and they will find a way to get it. This could be the end of Spain as we know it. Smugglers will be passing media through terrorist cells and then Bush will intervene and bomb Spain....form a new military presence in Spain. Show them how people should really live. Oh...the inhumanity :-(

5830.6.2006 14:24

The industry ,i.e RIAA and the rest of the suing morons could more than likley reduce the amount of piracy by 3/4's if they actually sold the product for what it's worth rather than decide what they think it's worth ,within six months of either a game or dvd,cd, etc being released the units have halved in price...lol...as an example here in NZ socom 3 release price with headset retailed at $129.95 less than two months have passed since release and it's now at $79.95 and with a Dick Smith VIP card there's a further 10% off,what i'm saying is they oughta sell the stuff for what people are prepared to pay to make piracy bought stuff less attractive since the software etc can't hold it's price anyway, but i guess that's just too simple for the dickheads

5930.6.2006 15:07
caffeine_
Inactive

STUPID!!! So Techinically if i send a file (Legit) to my friend from my computer to his without a central server im screwed (if I live in Spain that is)

6030.6.2006 17:55

@gonzax The bullfighting still goes on regardless of what you just splurted out back there: besides, I'm sure your self-concocted 50% statistic has a margin of error of +3\-3%. Besides, I was talking about wasting food, not about the tangents you spoke of, wasting food just isn't right, people are starving. As for heaven, they only take memberships. Thank you, come again.

6130.6.2006 17:57

hahahha hot ice u r so funny man !! u r a joka!! being serious i think this law wont last much. "as for the tomatina well, that just made me laugh, it is not even worth replying to that" Wasting a 100 tonnes of tomatoes is no laughing matter. I bet you wouldn't be laughing if you were starving in Ethiopia right of this moment, and you just wish that one of those tomatoes wasted could to you. No, of course not, you're not starving, so how would you know. THATīS CALLED DEMAGOGY. WE ALSO HAVE LOTS OF CELEBRATIONS WITH WINE AND ALL KINDS OF FOOD JUST LIKE MANY OTHER CULTURES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. WHAT SHOULD WE DO? STOP ALL THOSE CELEBRATIONS AND SEND THE MONEY TO ETHIOPIA? THEN, WHY DONīT YOU SEND ALL YOUR WAGE TO THEM OR WHY DONīT YOU STOP EATING AND DRINKING, I AM SURE YOU COULD DO WITHOUT A LOT OF THINGS AND USE THAT MONEY FOR THOSE PEOPLE. COME ON GUY, FOR GODīS SAKE,WAKE UP! now gonzax you just being a selfish. and u even have the guts to say wake up. U WAKE UP. hot ice salary wont do no good to the ethopian people but surely 100 tons of tomato would. as for the spanish. i thought they were nice but now i think the are stupid dickheads for booing at ETO'. never have i seen a complete talented person being boooed at because of his colour. it never happened in another country where a world class football star is being booded at. you might see a untalented black star being booed it. and those who boo are not many and just do it because they think that the star would play bad.but never a world class. ronaldo has also being booed at because of his colour and not scoring. I MEAN WAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE BEING WHITE OR BLACK??

621.7.2006 0:50

hot_ice The bullfighting still goes on regardless of what you just splurted out back there: besides, I'm sure your self-concocted 50% statistic has a margin of error of +3-3%. WELL, HERE YOUīRE RIGHT, I MUST CONFESS THERE MIGHT EVEN BE A MARGIN OF ERROR OF 4%, EVEN 5-6%, GOD, I AM A FUCKING LIAR! axmad now gonzax you just being a selfish. and u even have the guts to say wake up. U WAKE UP. hot ice salary wont do no good to the ethopian people but surely 100 tons of tomato would. WELL, SURE, THEY COULD MAKE A REALLY GOOD SALAD! axmad I mean, what difference does it make to be white or black? ABSOLUTELY NONE BUT JUST BECAUSE A FEW DICKHEADS IN A FOOTBALL MATCH SCREAM AT SOMEONE DOES NOT MEAN THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS RACIST.

631.7.2006 5:04

thats not fair on the people who do not download or dont have a pc etc.

641.7.2006 5:55

Yeah, but remember, for all these #%*@$$**0s every single pearson is a pirate

651.7.2006 6:48
Humphreys
Inactive

It's not possible to make P2P illegal, thats how the internet works. I don't know who started this news thread but if it is true then Spain has effectivly cut itself off from the world (and I don't beleive that). Also, I would like to find a way to bill artists when I am forced to listen too or watch their material when I have NOT chosen to.

661.7.2006 7:13

@Gonzax Check please. Outlawing P2P is ridiculous, how can you outlaw a search engine?

671.7.2006 7:15

"That not the issue, I don't believe we should torture animals by spearing them to a bloody death, whether or not Spaniards agree with that practice makes little or no difference, since it is still ongoing and nobody cares to put an end to it." Agreed. The USA's ways is much better. Every year thousands of fat, shaved head, humpty dumpty rednecks in their stupid pickups desend on every hunting ground in the land. Mowing down birds, deer and everything else in their path, including people (at least there's some justice.) Then, on the side, we bomb and kill thousands of innocent people while turning a blind eye on genocide. Spaniards celebrate life. In the US, money rules.

681.7.2006 7:32

You are all missing the point. Seriously, it's not who's better than anyone else, it's the practices we commit ourselves to, that can change to benefit ourselves and others. That's what I meant! Ouf.

691.7.2006 10:43

Comeon folks, the whole tomato/bullfighting thing is not even relevant. What's revealing(IMO) about this Bill/Law is the taxing portion. The statist/leftist party came into power, and they are enacting a new tax to fund or make up for a budget shortfall. So much for liberalism and populism, this action is a hedge and protection of the major record, and movie labels, the cost being carried by the entreprenuers, who are trying t innovate and create markets, and consumers, who will be denied a legitimate and more Progressive, ie.. competitive market. ------ The whole hunting remark, smells like rank bigotry and ignorance. I'm not a hunter, because I just don't have the stomach for killing of any creature, however were it not for the "Rednecks/Hillbilly/Ingrates etc.., etc.. et al." The population of non-domesticated animals would outgrow the available feeding/grazing grounds, and the Government(you and I, by way of taxes) would end up having to pay thin the herds. Not to mention the predatory animals, who would turn to pets and scavaging from trash bins. just my 2 cents, no offense intended.

701.7.2006 11:42

Ha, I eat rednecks for breakfast!!! Seriously, is this law for real?? All P2P would also mean networks like when business communicate and send memos, documents, speaches, etc... to each other. And taxing media is complete garbage!!! If you tax it, you better make all the illegal stuff legal... This is a lose/lose situation for the people. You can infringe rights with pretty much anything. Are they going to start taxing paper?? What about hearing aids...those allow you to hear copyrighted material. These laws are very bad. If I lived in Spain, I would have preferred the banning of PCs, Phones, CDs, DVDs, etc.... I cannot comment on bullfighting and the tomatina since I do not know much about it, but I would support that more than these stupid laws even if it was just done to needlessly waste tomatos and bulls for a laugh... As for tomatos for aid, I do not see how that would help. They are not going to fly them in because of costs, so it would have to be by boat. This means that the tomatos would have to be picked green, flash frozen and vacuum sealed. This would require a special plant being built. Then they would have to be shipped in ships with special containers to prevent each tomatoe from being damaged and freezers so the tomatoes do not go bad. After that, some plants would have to be built in Ethiopia to ripen the tomatos with nitrogen. Then there would have to be facilities that distribute the tomatos. That would probably be a multi-billion dollar expense for Spain. I don't see it happening. Rather than that, I think giving the tomatos to poor Spaniards would be better.

711.7.2006 12:51

JaguarGod, I think were of the same mind. This is an utterly bad Bill/Law.

721.7.2006 13:31

What is the matter with you two!!!. Its not about our Countries against one another its our governments taking our freedom away more and more each day. As long as we allow these assholes to continue what they are doing the more we are going to loose.Its not just in Spain,USA. but its happening everywere and as fare as people starving im seeing it here in the USA as much as in any other country. Look what happened when Katrina hit.Takes your minds back to the people that are causing this to happen. No Disrespect to anyone intended.

731.7.2006 13:52

goverments are full of assholes everywhere, that is the real problem! but let me say it again. P2P is not illegal in Spain!!

741.7.2006 17:24

Quote:
Spain has also suggested a tax levy in which most forms of digital media will receive a higher tax. CDs, DVDs, flash drives and even mobile phones will get hit with a tax penalty merely for the ability to load illegal content. They have said that the money collected by these taxes will go towards paying back owners of copyrighted materials. This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes? Appears to be a situation of putting the cart before the horse, so to speak.
Are they for real? How are you going to police this its not possiblie and brining a tax on digital media is the funniest thing ive heard this morning :)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Jul 2006 @ 17:27

751.7.2006 22:28

I believe the move makes more sense in light of this Reuters wire report. http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=oddlyEnoughNews&storyID=2006-06-27T145440Z_01_L27821328_RTRUKOC_0_US-SPAIN-APES.xml Their legislature imagines themselves to be no more than apes in suits. :D Which fits to a "T", since only a 2 year old could pass the anti-p2p with a straight face and a clear conscience. My suggestion would be for the "honorable" members of the Spanish whom advocated this law, would be to prove their self hatred by standing in for the Great Apes, who will no longer be provided sanctuary in Spain's Zoos.

761.7.2006 23:00

The tax penalizes those who aren't responsible, and in my book, that's not fair.

772.7.2006 2:06

I cannot recall which Linux (red hat fedora or ubuntu?) developer was it, but they are recommending the use of P2P application in downloading their free product. Does this mean, the Spanish government will penalize anyone who will try their OS?

782.7.2006 5:11

Quote:
This begs the question, if you tax media prior to copyright material being loaded on it, who determines where the tax goes?
This doesn't [url=http://begthequestion.info]beg the question[/url]. Please learn what this means. I was going to comment that this sort of legislation is a sure sign of a corrupt, right-wing government, but since some idiot has already called this legislation "liberal" (again, please look this up), it doesn't seem worth the trouble.

792.7.2006 5:41

link doen's work anymore, but hey, apparently these great apes will lead the revolution against all working humans in Spain, that is.

802.7.2006 16:36
fatjohnny
Inactive

who gives a care about Spain. It is still legal in our countries unless you live in Spain which you probably dont and what you should be worried about is the possibility of other countries following Spain. Spain has passed the law and there is nothing we can do to prevent it so dont complain or just talk about Spain and just worry about your own country.

812.7.2006 16:38
fatjohnny
Inactive

whats the point in putting an extra tax on stuff that can be pirated. u can use a VCR to tape movies for free so why didnt they put a tax on the VCR, this is just bs.

822.7.2006 22:19

Spain oh Spain, why you got to be a legislative pain! lol

832.7.2006 22:29

Spain is just like spam(the meat) (1) Nothing really goes with it. (2) No one really likes it.( Unless you live in spain, and even then...)


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843.7.2006 4:39

keebles (Member) 3 July 2006 2:29 Spain is just like spam(the meat) (1) Nothing really goes with it. (2) No one really likes it.( Unless you live in spain, and even then...) KEEBLES HEY MAN, YOU SHOULD ACCEPT THE HARSH TRUTH, A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE SPAIN, ITīS JUST THAT ABSOLUTELY NOBODY LIKES YOU.

853.7.2006 4:50

Alright that's quite enough of that! Spain is quite a cool place, but I just wouldn't want to live there - a) because it's too hot (even though you do get a siesta) and b) because of this! LOL. Keep the flaming for your own little wars outside of aD people!

863.7.2006 16:30

@gonzax Ok, we get it, you live in Spain.

874.7.2006 0:00

he's aslo spanish. look at the name!!

884.7.2006 0:03

It's just a stupid n00b conversation and has ended. Both remarks were idiotic, but let's just get over it!




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894.7.2006 4:28

hot_ice @gonzax Ok, we get it, you live in Spain. ME? I LIVE IN NEW ZEALAND ACTUALLY CAN YOU GIVE ME SOME HOT ICE PLEASE, ITīS REALLY HOT HERE!!

904.7.2006 4:44

New Zealand? Wow, doesn't get much more diverse than at aD! It's crazily hot here too!




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914.7.2006 7:15

@gonzax You are Spanish, yet you live in New Zealand. But to the topic, Spain really went the extra mile on that one, by outlawing all P2P, imagine if it comes here to North America...

924.7.2006 7:16

There'll be a mass uprising if it does!




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934.7.2006 8:17

hot_ice @gonzax You are Spanish, yet you live in New Zealand. But to the topic, Spain really went the extra mile on that one, by outlawing all P2P, imagine if it comes here to North America... OK, I WAS KIDDING, I LIVE IN SPAIN ACTUALLY AND FOR GODīS SAKE, HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO TELL YOU ALL OF YOU THAT P2P IS NOT, I REPEAT IT, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL IN SPAIN!!!! P2P IS NOT ILLEGAL IN SPAIN!!!! I WASNT KIDDING WHEN I SAID IT WAS VERY HOT HERE, BY THE WAY.

944.7.2006 8:34

Surprises me not. Lol, so why is this article false then?




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954.7.2006 9:49

Spain didn't outlaw P2P, so it's just false publicity then... @gonzax tsk tsk

964.7.2006 10:42

yes, Spain didnīt outlaw P2P. I really donīt know where they got that information but it is not true, at least i can assure you than i have never heard such news here, neither on tv, radio, press, internet nor any other place. It is true that we have to pay a tax for private copy though and they want to apply it to everything: mp3 players, even pcīs, theyīve been talking about it for years but so far we only have to pay the "canon" for blank media (cdīs, dvdīs, etc)which is a real shame but not a big problem as most people are buying imported media for which you dont have to pay that tax. Completely absurd, but thatīs the way it is!!

974.7.2006 12:20

@gonzax Ome take it easy on the caps lock. If you wanna stress something don't use caps just post a link to a relevant article that proves your point. I'm not saying that this artcle is not true either.


Edited by DVDBack23


"the mediocre teacher tells. the good teacher explains. the superior teacher demonstrates. the great teacher inspires."- William Aruthur Ward
Website: http://www.ampleblaze.com

985.7.2006 5:28

Well I do live in Spain and I quite agree with all the comments. I thought that The far east had a problem regarding internet access to information. Is Spain in the EEC or not? If so why does it feel that it can dictate it's own terms?

995.7.2006 9:27

Quote:
Congress unanimously approved this legislation as a civil offense where users caught downloading anything via P2P for personal or commercial use will be fined the amount lost by the licensee due to the download.
And what if the object in question is not licensed? Say you have a free 3d art prog, create a large rendered high polygon image to share with friends via P2P. Will you be fined nothing since you lost nothing?

1005.7.2006 9:30

Nah you'd probably be fined €20,000 for "use of an illegal software application"

1015.7.2006 15:43

Newsflash everyone: according to gonzax, Spain did not outlaw all P2P file sharing. How is Ibiza this time a year?

1025.7.2006 18:02

talking about hot. i think am enjoyin london' weather . it gets hot for three days then rains for 2.lol aint it kool. @gonzax will i be fined if i download a movie from limewire?? or will i be jailed for life if i download it then back it up and add it to my dvd collection???

1035.7.2006 19:59

I have to say, I find debates at Afterdawn to be refreshing. It's a mix of every type of opinion, you can ever come to fathom.

1045.7.2006 23:53

Possibly both, but probably neither. I don't mind the rain coming actually, it's been too hot of late.... Quite a refreshing change! Just hope it gets nicer at the weekend.




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1056.7.2006 4:27

well, i just love rain but its too fucking hot here these days, i wish it would rain everyday, i love it. Hot Ice, Ibiza must be even hotter than your nick these days, because of the weather and also because of all the half-naked women on their beaches.

1066.7.2006 4:54

LOL! How come I didn't see any when I went to Ibiza?




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1076.7.2006 7:32

mmmmmmmmm.... let me think... you are blind? lol

1086.7.2006 7:33

LOL not quite!




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1096.7.2006 11:19

@gonzax Topless women, that's just about everywhere, spring break, etc etc.

1106.7.2006 11:25

you know what? iīve never been to Ibiza! lol hot ice, when you say everywhere, what exactly do you mean?

1116.7.2006 13:30

Well gonzax, The following places may elaborate on the usage of the term everywhere: for exemple, your wet dreams, hhehehee, spring break, streakers, flashers, swingers, nudies, forest people, trolls, etc.

1126.7.2006 13:59

Lol alright that'll do!




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1137.7.2006 1:17

wet dreams is that the name of an xxx movie?? or u mean weting your bed with something different than urine.



1147.7.2006 1:19

Lol ok, ok, enough!




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1157.7.2006 4:05

thank you so much Hot Ice, in my wet dreams there is always someone naked, oh well.. and in my not wet dreams too. by the ways, what was this post about? oh, i remember now, adverbs and naked women, interesting stuff!

1167.7.2006 5:21

People, I've tried to steer this on topic, but why am I bothering?




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1177.7.2006 14:44

@sammorris Mate don't stress because this topic 100% is being monitored by a mod so when they feel that its goin no where they will take the appropraite action.


Edited by DVDBack23


"the mediocre teacher tells. the good teacher explains. the superior teacher demonstrates. the great teacher inspires."- William Aruthur Ward
Website: http://www.ampleblaze.com

1187.7.2006 14:50

Of course they will, but mods aren't all seeing eyes, they don't have like a 24 hour monitor that pages them when something's out of line with the forum rules. I just wondered to what extent such discussions are welcome on a public forum. I may be over-reacting, but better safe than sorry surely? I don't want to take a mod's job, that's just being an idiot, but helping them out doesn't seem harmful.




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1197.7.2006 15:07

@sammorris Well we all help the mods out and theres nothing wrong with that. If you think theres something wrong with something someone has posted just click the report offensive post button. Its as simple as that. I understand that they are very busy in due time they will get to it. If you think its not being dealt with effecintly just pm a mod with the link to the thread and they also can deal with it that way.


Edited by DVDBack23


"the mediocre teacher tells. the good teacher explains. the superior teacher demonstrates. the great teacher inspires."- William Aruthur Ward
Website: http://www.ampleblaze.com

1207.7.2006 15:55

huh?? did i loose something?? i didn't find any of this posts offensive to be honest. just guys getting the definition of wet dreams right. lol



1218.7.2006 4:20

i was just kidding guys, no offense intended to anyone, i think it is pretty obvious that it was all a joke between hot ice and me. Ok, iīll shut up forever!

1228.7.2006 4:52

@gonzax Mate i got the joke its all good. I was just stating a method of dealing with issues. At the end of the day its the mods that decide.


Edited by DVDBack23


"the mediocre teacher tells. the good teacher explains. the superior teacher demonstrates. the great teacher inspires."- William Aruthur Ward
Website: http://www.ampleblaze.com

1238.7.2006 10:09

There are tons of links for the Spain outlawing P2P thing... Non of them are from news sources, but this could have been something that was not officially announced and leaked out of legislature. Just cause it is not on TV, does not mean that it is not true. I say give this some time. This could go either way, or maybe it was a rumor started by the government to see how people will react.

1248.7.2006 14:45

I was reading the posts, and I am not sure what the fuss is all about; tangents do happen. However, the topic regardless, is still being discussed, in regards to Spain, I think concrete evidence is needed rather than speculation.

12514.7.2006 1:17

How can they just outlaw perfectly useful technology? I understand P2P networks are mainly used for illegal filesharing, but still... Itīs a bit like outlawing the internet because it allows us to (illegally) share IP or facilitate terrorism (okay, maybe not quite, but you get my point).

12615.7.2006 16:41

you know guys. i don't get it. if you download a movie from a p2p programme is that illegal? what about different types of file like programmes and games. is that illegal??



12715.7.2006 17:19

Mate if you dont pay for it then its against the law. Unless the software is open source or freeware.


Edited by DVDBack23


"the mediocre teacher tells. the good teacher explains. the superior teacher demonstrates. the great teacher inspires."- William Aruthur Ward
Website: http://www.ampleblaze.com

12822.7.2006 14:45

It is strictly illegal to download music and videos via P2P, but the technology itself IS legal, which is why torrent hosting sites and p2p program managers are up in arms, they themselves aren't committing crimes. People who submit the illegal material via those methods are the ones breaking the law, but people like the RIAA can't go after joe public in most cases, they're not worthy targets as there's too many of them and they're insignificant. They're chopping down a healthy tree to get rid of the diseased branches.




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12925.7.2006 15:54

that sucks crap hope no more countries follow

13026.7.2006 1:47

Hope, but I'm not sure there's much of it...




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1314.8.2006 23:15

Darknets are rebellious and are sneaky, the web is a big place, speeds get faster, files smaller, and as the bad laws proliferate, they get harder to enforce. There is a silent revolution going on... it's in the air...literally.


Crafty

1325.8.2006 0:20

Wow. Spain need to talk to their neighbor France. I hear people want to legalize file sharing over there. Also, Im sure its an hoax but i heard about file-sharing insurance somewhere in Europe.



1335.8.2006 7:08

You're right about all of those, Proximus!




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13417.8.2006 21:54

I realize his is kind of anticlimactic, but this whole thread derives from false information. The legislative reform in Spain says nothing about p2p use for noncommercial purposes, which continues to be legal; if you're actually interested in the content of the reform, maybe you'd like to read about it: http://www.elpais.es/articulo/cultura/Congreso/aprueba/nueva/Ley/... http://www.elmundo.es/navegante/2006/06/22/cultura/1150971473.html, http://www.internautas.org/html/2565.html) As for the Inquisition, maybe I should remind the user that brought it up that torture or death penalty are not practiced nowadays in Spain - much unlike the United States, for instance, where incidentally people are also getting busted for using p2p. Maybe there is a connection between Inquisition values and p2p banning, but Spain is not the right example. I mean, I wonder if it is the Inquisition that allows same-sex marriage or private marijuana consumption in Spain... something that you can see in barely three or four more countries in the whole world (the US not included). I therefore strongly encourage users here to know what they're talking about before talking about it.

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