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id Software boss says piracy is killing PC gaming

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 08 Aug 2006 16:11 User comments (45)

id Software boss says piracy is killing PC gaming id Software owner Kevin Cloud recently spoke about some problems that the PC gaming industry will face in the future. While he insisted that id will remain primarily a PC developer, he said that piracy has become a major concern for him. "Piracy is hard," Cloud said, in response to a question. "It’s really, from my opinion, destroying the PC market." He blamed piracy for the reduction of PC games in retail stores.
However, despite the view, he said he believed the PC gaming industry as a whole is not in any immediate danger. "I don't think the PC market is shrinking at all," he said. "I think there are tons of people playing games on the PC. I think World of Warcraft is a good example." World of Warcraft is a good example of avoiding piracy. Requiring a subscription to play has given the game success even in markets like China.

"There is about 70 percent of the landmass of the world where you can't sell games in a legitimate market," he said, "because pirates will beat you to the shelves with your own game." Of course, piracy doesn't just happen in these markets, but in wealthy countries too. Many pirates in these countries claim that wouldn't have bought the software or game anyway.

As a highlight of the piracy problem, Ritual Entertainment discovered that after the release of SiN Episodes: Emergence, support calls from people with pirated copies outnumbered those with legitimate copies by a ratio of five to one. Offering support is expensive so you could imagine how developers feel about offering support to people that didn't even pay for the product.

Cloud admits however that there is no solution in sight yet for this problem. "This industry is trying to work on that kind of a problem," he concluded. "And it is a very serious problem. There isn't any magical solution, or else we'd solve it." Of course, copy protection technology and other methods have been tried and tried again often with unintended results. StarForce for example is resistant to cracking but has caused several technical problems on machines it was installed on.

Source:
Ars Technica

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45 user comments

18.8.2006 16:22
gogochar
Inactive

Quote:
It’s really, from my opinion, destroying the PC market.
That's right, it's your opinion. Of course, I also have my own opinions. I think that the PC shouldn't be harbored as a game machine. If I want to play a quality video game without having to worry about buying expensive RAM or worrying about installing a good graphix card without tearing up my PC, then I will just go out and buy an XBOX. IMO, the PC was made to browse the Internet and download music from iTunes, that's it. You can keep all your gaming and DVD player gimmics because I bought a PC so I could use the Internet. I haven't bought a PC game in over 8 months. And now, I don't even like to play video games.

28.8.2006 17:11

gogo kinda like u said thats ur opinion the pc is made for numerous things not just downloading ur porn an music....so yea of course copy protection will always be needed for everything its just a matter of how....

38.8.2006 17:16

gogo I'll take my gaming experience on my pc thank you very much. You kiddies can keep your console.

49.8.2006 0:09
johnodd4
Inactive

i think this is there own fault why simple why pay 50.00 to 90.00 per pc game when you can just download the game and if the game was worth playing on pc pc devlopers then need to make the game cheaper and make the expansion packs even cheaper still

59.8.2006 2:52

I agree with johnodd4, the price is the main reason for piracy... not all pirate games are download for free... as with the consoles, many people BUY pirate copies... I guess this is proof there´s people willing to pay for the games, just not as much as the companies want them to...

69.8.2006 5:49

exactly, the solution is so simple, stop trying to rip people off for between $ 40- 60 a game and you may find you sell more units and cut down on piracy corporate greed encourages piracy

79.8.2006 6:32

Then why do they have the top sellers.C'mon doom3 ,quake 4,moh aa the list goes on and on.Greedy bastards.


pc games with gamepad support by tycobb.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/360823

89.8.2006 6:39

I agree with the prices being too high but in the end of the day the artests need to feed there family. Also at the end of the day people still buy the game so there still getting paid. I kind of see this differently than Music.

99.8.2006 13:28

The whole 5 to 1 ratio for people calling up support kind of suprised me. However, the main problem lies in those 3rd world markets like china and taiwan, not that they're 3rd world, but they have all those shops that can just sell pirated games the same way regular shops sell legit games, except the games are like $5 instead of $50.

109.8.2006 13:40

HAHAHAHAHHAH-HAH! Wrong-o, old man! CRAP software and ridiculous prices killed the PC gaming industry. It's over. Stop making excuses. It's pathetic.

119.8.2006 14:50

"Kevin Cloud says piracy is killing PC gaming" *dies laughing* No you foocking moron its bad games and "effortless" game design thats killing game sales......god..... On a happyer note I taged Prey Collectors ed for 30 off ebay. I hope its better than HL2,q4 and SIn ep1 ...altho anythign is better than SIN and q4.....

129.8.2006 15:02

Zippy's fps Price list at time of release these games would be worth.... Darkwatch:PC 50 if moddable;Console 40 Blood:50 Quake 2:50 Quake 1:40 Quake 3:40 Qauke 4:30 Unreal Gold:50 Unreal 2:30 UT99:50 UT03:30 UT04:45 Ultimate Doom (1+2):40 Doom 3:30 HL1:50 HL2:40 Halo PC:50 Halo 2 PC for XP:80...heheheh I would pay it to :3 Dues ex 1:50 Dues ex 2:30 (poorly deved) System shock 2:50 Jedi knight2:50 Jedi knight2 JA:40 Clive Bakers Undieing:50 C&C renegade:35 And yes I know halo 2 is overall a point or 3 lesser than Halo 1 but stil tis a good fps I love FPS's thus I must have *L* they should ahve sold q4 in 2 versions sp is 25 and MP is 25..that would realy have made the game worth its price....sicne I would not touch the MP side to save 25$ but QUake 4 is such a poorly deved game its scary....

1311.8.2006 11:27

piracy is killing PC gaming what a laugh the real crook are the one thar sell the music cd, software cd ther are the one that are causeing all the problem trying to get all the blood ther can by over charge for the music and software ther are the real Piracy, and when ther can not make million, ther cry, reduce you price asshole, does not take asuper compter to fique that one out

1411.8.2006 11:46

all my pc games are purchased, why well i apreciate the effort that goes into the developement, what i dont like ia haveing to be a beta tester for some of them. if hes going to bitch about people riping of games then he should ask why they are doing this? and the answer to that is simple crackers do it for the enjoyment , because they can and want to be the first to do it! they dont do it for profit they do it to be the first/ best in what they do! games designers/developers should follow their example and release a better product that has passed all the beta stages and release a fully working no need to be v1.1 etc the day after launch day working out the box game

1511.8.2006 12:02

bluetac hell soemtiems we arent even the beta testers Dues ex 2 for PC just never should ahve been released without if being fixed,and now they wont even relase the fing SDK. The plubishers like activtion are 70% to blamce when they force a game out earily and then not support it... Altho sure Ion Storm and Trokia were on thier death bed they could have at least finished their game.

1611.8.2006 13:20
GCamaro95
Inactive

Piracy isn't destroying PC Gaming, most games themselves are killing PC Gaming. Quite a few company's just push games out that are really terrible. Take Dungeon Lords for instance, that game had potential, but unfortunately, Dreamcatcher said what the heck, ship it to the stores with all the glitches and charge $49.99 for it. In my opinion, I'm willing to pay $50 to $100 for games if they are great and enjoyable to play. A great game for the PC is Diablo 2, a lot of time and care went into making that game and company's should use that game for examples when making games.

1711.8.2006 13:36

GCamaro95 Well soemtiems its not the dev look at Quake 4 on the 360 the publisher and MS cryed to get it out ASAP. Activition has done this befor,look at Vampire Bloodlines:TM sure tokia was on shaky ground but activetion could actuly have but some work into providing fixs to the game and sicne they or whoever wont release the SDK...tis jsut sad. Edois and Dues ex 2 PC is another WTF you know rleased the SDK and the gam would be fixed over night but no.... I'd be hapy to pay 50-100 for a fully deved,supported game but they jsut dont do it anymore,and when they do its a MMO or soem other lack luster thing. SPeakign of whitch how bad is DL? I wanted to try that game *L*

1811.8.2006 13:39

BTW to fix support is easy make Serial numbers per game for support,no serial or copied serial no support,and sicne you have to fill out a forum or give name /phone number they can track or give to soemoen to track these stupid people that are pariteing a game and not following commensence....

1911.8.2006 13:46
GCamaro95
Inactive

Well Zippy, if the game didn't have about 100 glitches or more the game would be pretty good, there's a lot of action in the game, my girlfriend even plays, but it will drive you nuts. My girlfriend had about 60 hours in the game and because of this one glitch, she had to start over.

2011.8.2006 13:50

GCamaro95 that will do it LOL I rmember a save gitch on Hexen 2 had to start over ....oh the horror *L*

2111.8.2006 14:27

@ZippyDSM I agree it's strange there is no redgo code for games unlike say symantec which requires activation online or over the phone or it stops work'n....lol... tho if the pirated games are used offline then the unlock code can be shared indefinitley between many people @ All others regarding glitchy games It's not possable at this time to make games without them, ffs use your common sense,it took our ancestors 1000's of years for us to evolve to where we as humans are now and WHAT you expect error free games in only how many years,take another look at at the early games to where we are at this stage in software and hardware development,the games today are far more pleasurable to play ay Regarding loosing money,well the software developers are ,tho assuming they get royalties etc then they will get a 2nd bite thru retro games,so the games we have now will be reproduced at a later date,there's some PS1 games i'd like to see ported to the PS2 and seeing how popular Microsofts live arcade wednesday is,gaming is'nt about to drop on it's knees

2211.8.2006 14:27

i Agree about the serial number/keys for tech support and updates. i love online gaming so dont mind the whole registereing your key to be-able to play it, they could take a leaf out of steams book for example (not to the same degree) ie unlocking the games content etc or if they did make them unlock faster i'm on a 10 meg connection with an athlon 64x2 4400 cpu and 2 gig of ram and it took me ages to unlock the half life 2 episode 1, whats all that about, just key check the dam game for crist sakes! so i can play it before someone chages their mind! like i said i am all for paying for games just make them work out the box! if they cant do that dont release it simple as that. *steps of soap box and leaves it out for the next person*

2311.8.2006 14:42

I heard a comment in here that rang a bell, imagine that you dont live in a first world country, but a third world one and the sales tax plus the import tax add up to a whole crap load of MORE money than what it's already worth. No brainer- of course piracy will occur in third world countries, but then again how many people that live in 3rd world counties have half decent computers to even run the games?!!!(no ill intentions meant) Now I don't consider myself a cheap person but it's crazy the amount of money needed for new games. I do agree that some games really are worth the money, but the bottom line is CORPORATE GREED, that's what's REALLY killing PC gaming. And someone mentioned the fact that the designers need to put food on the table, true but what's to keep id from some day going to a third world country and setting up shop THERE when the food that the designers put on their table suddenly becomes expensive? 1 KFC bucket in the U.S. = 30 bowls of rice or beans or whatever somewhere else right? In the end they will NEVER lose profits, just make less than was estimated. CORPORATE TRANSLATION= piracy is killing PC gaming there you have it

2411.8.2006 14:50

Chanta Its not jsut PC,I see the coperations stifleing creavtity and proper devloping everyday with every other game I play 0-o

2511.8.2006 15:05

bluetac I hate steam it forces you to have online its just bad,HL2 is good but not good enough to up with constant hand and hand with big brother. Sin eps are pretty laking so again not worth it. However IDs key checking system is perfect they should focus on unimposeing Checks and balances I see more black boot type prgrams with Stream and Starfroce than soemthign that cheks and then lets you your onlien content and such.

2611.8.2006 15:11

point taken it was probably a poor example in hind sight :) the point being as i said a key check system works simple as that. but where steam falls down is you simply can not play the game without an internet conection Hhhhmmmm ponders. i can see no real solution other than a type of online check to unlock a game. In days gone by where the internet was not as readily available to all a simple key to unlock never worked as one would buy the game and all your mates would borow it lol

2711.8.2006 15:18

sorry in advance for going of topic on this one but...... Having pondered a we bit ,and tought about it a little more valve are more than just a little naughty regarding steam. if i understand this correctly a single player game such apisode one still needs an internet connection to actually launch the game not just to unpack it after instalation . going to test this over the weekend to see it=f it is the case, . if that is correct (shouldn't be) then thats just bang out of order.

2811.8.2006 15:38

bluetac Unlock game online only=Dumb Unlock MP or online updates and content=ok Online updates only from dev=Bad Check key befor play if net is found=ok I'll put up with some things but I jsut cant handle Steam I could have gotten it befor the switch to dail up after my move but hell why bother,I borrowed it from a friend and patched it played thru it and have detremeted its worth 30 but with the Steam 15,sicne you need steam to run mods....its jsut to much BS. q4 ran fine for me altho I loath the game as the new bench mark in FPS's all flash and no subtance,its key checker that checks the key when it can find net is fine sure it mght do it each tme you run it but hell comapred to the pompus STREAM IDs key check is inovative,now if they can only get over themselfs and bring back the great level design that was once a part of thier games..... Now let me tell you about HL2 and STEAM HL 2 ,it dose have a full offline mode untill 1 of 2 thigns happens 1 you update ,2 you MP any ,then it swiths to a online only mode. and I cant confrim if they have fixed this yet. Sure I have my dailup going 24/7 but I have a few choices of what to do and do only 1 at a time 1 downlaod soemthign,2 surf,3 let a game update or play a MMO Guild wars works on dail up :P new laoding zones might take 5min to load...but it works >< *L* Bascily 5 hours per 50MB,from good fast server,so I can update HL2 over night or over 2 days,I dont want to think about its little constant connection to big brother I am sure its not alot but on dailup you neen every free slot and KB you can get ><

2912.8.2006 1:15

I fully understand your view on this. I suppose in a lot of ways i take my bb connection for granted some times. I have quake 3 here somewhere and you are right on the sudden chage of game style it changed from being a full on stratergy shoot em up to a story board doow 3 rip off. and doow 3 changed from doom so much that it could be made from a different company. all the above things happen because developers seize the new technology we must use this rather than how can we use this . some times when they have a target audeince they should aim for them rather than trying to aim at everyone and spoiling what they had. take unreal tournament , they improved the game with each incarnation of it, and left the comunty to mod it if they felt the need. they then embraced what they the buyinmg public comes up with and wraps it up and includes it in its releases/updates .In doing so they gaine the respect of the developers and vice versa.

3012.8.2006 14:58

bluetac I had and have mixed feeligns about Quake 3,at frist I so hated it for not being a single palyer game I mean when I saw the doom like struces I nearly pissed in my pants then BAM....where the game this MP crap is boreing *L* I think they should have brought in alt fire right then and there as Q3 is its a cute MP game but is lacking the single fire hampers gamepaly and it so shows in Q4,the 2 or 3 exapntions on Q3...dont help it any. D3 is simple beuse carmack was a wee bit to high off his owen ego to see where D3 could fail...altho it seems only the older gamers or more hardcare gamers have a distaste for D3 it has sold well and thus they dont see why they have to go back to the great level design of old,and this has seeped into other companies I cant beleive Raven has fallen so much as bad. UT was great even as a MP game...UT03...I mean coem on you have to be dumb or blind not to see the diffrance in the weapon damage,I mean these weapons are by NREF.....with that said I am still sore they replaced the 8ball/UT rocket launcher,I mean its not UT with out fireing 6 rockets or grenades at once...ture the moders can fix it...but shit they are startign to fix E V E R Y T H I N G now adays >< UT04 is a bit better but the weapons are still nerfy but the vechecils help balance out fun....still the codeing from U1 to U2 and ultimately UToX is hellish I use to could change projectiles and such rather eailsy but now n0w all I can chage is damage >< but only to stuff I summon >< I know I knwo I sux *L* BTW ID is a diffrent company now adays you see after the a few key meembers left a few years after Q2/Q3 they had to outsorce RTCW becuse they couldnt do the game at that time,it had soild level design but not quite like q2/q3,with DOOM 3 they show they are a midecore DEV with the abilty to make a useful engine. WHats his name that made daikatana,the ass remero?he had some good level design ideas and it shows daikatana level design is pretty good campared to the blandness of Q4 and D3,I think he and 2 or 3 others made ID what it was without them its jsut carmack smoke his own MJ and thinking "I am a programing god"much like Gorge lucas youve becoem fat and complacent and are not as great as you once where....mmmm well mabye in carmacks case I am being to hard he is a engine programer not a game "desinger",thos that apporved the level design I want "alone time" with..I can stand the weapons, no hit location,monster design and other crap...but I wont forgive lack luster level design I mean hell have you no cliped thru levels you'll see aera you can see in game but cant get to,perfect secert hideing palces and such......ggaahhhh *brain turns to ash* wait I had a brain :P Damn I did alot of ranting *L*

3115.8.2006 3:43

I paid well over $100 for both the PC and XBox versions of DooM 3 only to find out that I got boned by both Microsoft and ID software. The PC version stopped working about halfway through the game (entire screen would go black and not recover, or the game would randomly freeze up for 30 seconds or more), then I find out that Microsoft screwed all of their xbox customers by not supporting older games on the 360. And of course DooM 3 is not one of .0001% of the games they do support. Until this "buyer beware" attitude that game and console designers share is changed, I see piracy as a way for people to protect themselves from purchasing software of questionable quality and/or fitness. I know I'll never BUY another game from ID software, or game system from Microsoft again.

3215.8.2006 6:12

personally i dont like console gaminmg. i find it to limiting and does not flow as well as a pc version. But i do see your point. Pc gaming has pushed the boundaries to new heights as far as hardware goes which in turn has given developers new horizons in as far as game developement goes. I have doom 3 , cant say i have had any problems in the playing side of things tho, so maybe yours could (only sumiseing here) be driver/heat or power related as its quite a demanding game in the graphics department. i know many people go ou=t and buy new graphics cards just to be-able to play the latest games without though to the power requirments or heat the creat. next thing they know they get lockups or freezes tdo the aforementioned problems.

3315.8.2006 6:59

I doubt that my problem was hardware related. The game functioned perfectly over several days of play (each day my PC was restarted and run from a cold start-up). It was only after I reached a certain point in the game that problems started to happen. In fact, I could return to a previous point in the game without a problem. Also, my PC meets all the hardware requirements printed on the label for CPU, memory & Graphics capability. I'm running an NVIDIA GeForce Ti4600 with 128 mb DDR. 2.5 ghz cpu, 2 gb memory, and have 500 gb disk space. Unless the game changed at some point, and suddenly made demands on the hardware that exceeded the ability of my system, I cant figure out why I'm seeing these problems. And if the hardware demands did change, then it's ID software's fault for not informing the buying public, by further limiting the list of compatible system requirements printed on the game packaging. By the way. I gave up trying to get any help from ID software after several emails went unanswered. It appears that once a game is shipped, they dont look back at annoying things like custome support.

3415.8.2006 9:04

Although you meet the minimum requirments that 4600 is most likely the culprit namely the week link, it was not made with the todays games in mind, bit like the ati's 9800 pro a very nice card in the day but a little past its prime. todays games need to be played with todays cards to be-able to apreciate them fully. I am not saying that older cards cant play them but to have a playable frame rate that dont tax the card to death is damn near impossable on a card more than 18 months old , you see they need ddr2 at least and loads of it, even if your card had 256 of ddr1 it will be no match for a 128 of ddr3. i am not defending id at all i am saying is to reduce problems in todays games i am afraid time is very near if not over due to consider retireing you gpu my friend in favour of either an ati x8oo+ or nvidea 6800+ or even going whole hog and pci express. you will vurtually eliminate the problems you are having at the moment M8

3515.8.2006 9:33

Fundamentally I agree 100 percent with your assessment of my PC. My system is 4 years old, and was the best of the best when I had Gateway build it for me back in 2002. I had been considering a system upgrade, but after looking at what's available, I just don't think the cost is worth it. In years past, I ugraded my PC about every four years because CPU performance had always quadupled during the same amount of time. Although perfomance always increased, my costs didn't. Over the past 25 years I always paid about $4,000 to $5,000 for a state of the art PC. But this seems to no longer be the case. Now, the only way to increase cpu performance is to go multi core & hyper threading; a rather pricey way to go. The system that I "built" on Dell's web site totaled out at about $8,000 OUCH. Even a high end GPU upgrade for my current PC runs about $500. For $500 I figured I could buy a top end Xbox360 or PS3 system, and get get change back. So I bought Doom3 for the Xbox with the intent of buying a 360 when systems became available. Then I found out about backward compatibility, or lack thereof. I dont own an xbox. So here I sit with a half playable copy of Doom3 that the designers said would play just fine on my PC. And an xbox version of the same game that will never be opened unless I find an xbox for sale cheap.

3615.8.2006 10:46

It is really hard to be a serious gamer these days, i tend to try and buy something new for mine evey few months trying to keep it as up to date as i can. i have not gone pci express as the games i play and the monitor i have wont really benifit from it. No sooner do you have the latest dual core 4400 cpu then amd bring out the m2 lol Like i said in my previous post technology is changing so fast these days and game developers are at last taking notice and designing there new games arounf the new technology, hopefully gone are the old game engines with there limitations, granted they were/still are under used but the new stuff like the new doom engine and unreal engine etc are the ones that yesterdays cards just will not touch, the new physix engine by agea looks promising, i have it ready for the latest unreal tounament when it finally gets released. A gimic or essential gaming needs i will keep the boards posted lol

3715.8.2006 13:22

nfatoys yup and I got banned from ravensoft forms for bascily saying the same thing *L* D3 needs a good bt of power to run,plus it you paly for more than 30min to a hour or more you can find glitchs in your PC hardware *L* Mim specs are fcked now adays whatever they least in order to aply and enjoy the game you need 2-4 levels above it CPU :AMD 3700+ 2321.5Mhz HTT:211.0Mhz Ramm:512MB PC 3200 400Mhz (211.1@3-3-3-6) Vid :BFG AGP 6800GT OC 256MB I had trouble runnign doom on a vid medium high end card that came out AFTER it.besides D3s protieryies are all fcked up bad lighting small aeras,gimped weapons....uhg....DOOM is about small,med,large aeras variable lighting,weapons monsters and FUN... asl you gotta watch your virual memeory mine got stuck at 300-600 and newr games want a min of 1GB,ram is also important I need to get me 2GB of low lantcy ram. I ahd to paly with the settigns alot to get a blaane of preformance and looks,if a AV programs is scanning and or the VM is low nothing is going to run right.. when gameing with todays games the frist thing you need is a good mobo,next is VID then CPU then RAM you can live on 500-1GB of ramm but newer games need more,next you need a 64bit CPU with at least a 1MB cache on it the higher the chache the better the CPU for gameing and media a low end CPU aint worth your time you can get 1MB chache CPUs from 150+,vid cards are tricky and fustraeing Mhz and RAM size/speed is 2nd to arcitexture much like CPUs if its half assed arcitype then its not worth geting. bluetac 5-10 years ago PC gameign was better than console but bascily verythign has gone to hell,even unpatchable console games are buggy and PC games are patched only when the pub/dev feels like it,Darkwatch is the last fun fps I played,playing Prey right now,its heads about the horror of D3 and Q4 but lacks fun.. ---------- Anyway my PC as it is right now needs at least raid HD of 100GB and 1-2GB of fast ramn ,als even I am feeling the need to upgrade to PCIE but...the best way I coudl do that is get a good mobo that likes my CPU that might use DDR2,that right there is 250$ and thats 512 of the cheapest DDr2 mem going and a cheap PCIe card. next I could spend 200 on 1 or 2 GB of DDR2 ramm or 200 on a vid card..but frankly I would be better off spending 300 on a new vid card >< bah I need new HDs and ramm if I can run prey on fll settigns with shtuttering now and then I'll be good for HIGH end gameing on low for the next 2 years *L*

3815.8.2006 13:30

ZIppyDSM my rig as it stands at the mo needs its gpu upgraded but i am waiting ti find out how well UT2007 will play on this x800 pro. got 2gig of finest corsair pc3500 in ready for over clocking my x2 4400 with. not done it yet though as i dont really need to

3915.8.2006 13:45

bluetac Nniiicceeeeeee. what are you goign to get? A7800 would be a start i think unless ATI has put more effort into the drivers ,I had a 9800 AIW it lasted a year or so then fried ;_; Becarefull tho theres already 17 or so diffrent versions of the 7800 you cant go by generic stats anymore,in order to sell everthing they can they clock back and down in order to get soem of the bad stuff to sell >< my HDs suck I have 1 40GB ata 100 for XP and a 120 133Ata HD,the data bandwith for gameing shot up a year or 2 ago and you need every bit of it. I forgot to mention SOund cards are a must and I mena 80-200$ sound cards gone are the days you can get by without one a good 100$ sound card can add 5-10 fps to a game. DOse the 4400 have 1mb cache? I know tis dual core but dual core alone wont help on most things,and I dont ahve 200+ for a new CPU :P

4015.8.2006 14:59

yes the 4400 is a dual 2.2 ghz with 1 meg cache per core. i am undecided as to what to go for so many things can change in the next 4-5 months, sound card waise this has the x-fi music in it so what ever i go for will need at least 2 free usable pci slots (going to have to upgrade the msi board i am using) as this rig is agp .I would also like to retain both ide channels as some of the newer ones have started to do away with them in favour for more sata/sata2 ports.

4115.8.2006 15:17

bluetac that should be fun,altho there are plently of Mobos that can do PCIe and have 2 IDE ports for under 130 and some under 100 it al depends on who and what you want. http://www.directron.com/lputnf4ultrad.html http://www.directron.com/k8nf9.html http://www.directron.com/a8nslid.html there are even soem that have vid cards built as well as have PCIe and SLI the vid chipset sux but are good if you want to build and use it while you upgrade.

4215.8.2006 21:35

Thanks for the links. do like the dfi boards i have used some in the past. going to wait n see what comes out though over the next 5 months may ned to do a full rebuild and sell my currnt gear like cpu memory and gpu and just keep the pysix card,sound card n hard drives etc. just not sure yet still have time to see whats out there.

4316.8.2006 6:41

wd_2k6 ture ture, check out direction.com now and then they have some good deals,between them and Neweggs I bearly go to ebay or elsewhere for comp stuff. I know if might be costly but if your goign for the long haul DDR2 is the palce to start. I ahve a DFI NF3,for 120 ff ebay I knw its insane for a used mobo but its the only AGP,ADM64 mobo I could find that was not fcked over,I ahd 2 count them 2 Abit boards that are fickly to dyeing,I ahev tried giga byte and meh,,,DFI seemed to be the high brand that didnt screw with thier quailty unlike everyone else whos useing cheaper parts and selling them at normal prices its liek the bloody 360 1/3rd or more sent back...its disgusting >< Alto I dislike one thing about this mobo it it so fickle on ramm it aint funny,only reaosn I am running it now is becuse it liks the 512 of hydai ramm I got in it,the infreron and Cosir vale I have hate it >> I realy need 2GB ramm,I dont want to get 1GB at a tiem it fcks with dual channle mode >< sigh.... hel this is the 3rd or so month I been running it still ot put it in the case...sleveing the calbes in er,and well...1 sleveing kit aint enough for PSU and all,I would put 50$ into a new PSU but I ahve a 540 ehco star,modded with 2 temp senceing 80MM fanns,one of the fans in it died,and I got these fans for the super crapy copper tower heatsink I got *L* I so ahte it when I fugde up on aprts I got acouple 120MM HD fans..I wanted normal HDs fans these are drive bay fans >< *L* oh well will use them for soemthign and 20$ aint worth mailing back to new egg,with thier shiping prowess surely they can charge you and have UPS or whoever pick up the damn thing....oy vay... I love advance RMAs I am disalbed and its hard to get out.

4428.8.2006 16:44

well maybe if they didnt have prices of games at crazy stinkin prices then i dunno. $75 for the collectors edition of Oblivion was a rip off. and thats my major reason. i dont make enough to play every single game they release. i either play the demo, like it and buy it when its $20 (a reasonable price) or dont get it at all. and a ti4600? jebus man, get rid of that piece of crap. also a tip, NEVER buy bleeding edge, you will end up wasting your money. i had a 2003 computer (2.5ghz p4, 256mb 2100 ram, 80gb 5400rpm hdd, 64 integrated vid) for $600 that i put about..$300-500 into it after in upgrades. just spent $700 in this new one this year (3800 64 athlon single core, 1gb dual channnel 3200, eVGA 256mb 7600gt oc'd, new mobo, new case, more fans) i ported every thing else over XD. i need a new replacement to my 200gb maxtor since the warranty is up. (i have 600gb+ ) i can play 95% of all games at 1280x1024 at max settings. AND i also bought a 360 and two 360 games this summer. can people in third world countries afford that kind of money? i dont think so. and im only 17 too. go figure.

4528.8.2006 23:15

Gvaz I bought bleeding edge shit at least acouple tiems in my life ahhh..I recall that summer so clear...my friend build...and a 700$ 600Mhz CPU *L* ah well now I go cheap as much as I can *L* wait and year and some thigns halve in price 0_o Oblivion is good enoug to make 75 seems like alitte to much but not so bad..I got preys coloectors ed for 30 the game is bearly worth 20 do I feel cheated? kinda but I can live with it unlike Quake 4 50$ for a bland ass dimly thought out game is jsut to fing much....another thign that floors me Oblivion download is 50$ I can by it used for 30....do we se a problem here? WTF is up with these downloadable games that are not priced right frist off they should have the downloads in 2 formats 1 you pay 60 a year for the "serivce" and msot games are 10$ new games are are no more than 30 unless the retail goes for 90 or soemthing....*L*

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