AfterDawn: Tech news

Sony remains confident in Blu-ray

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 14 Jun 2007 16:55 User comments (27)

Sony remains confident in Blu-ray Just as the HD DVD Promotional Group is set to cut global sales forecasts for HD DVD players, Sony has said that shipments of its Blu-ray disc players could jump to about 600,000 this year. The company attributes growing demand for Blu-ray to movie titles released exclusively for the Blu-ray disc format.
Out of the top 20 blockbusters "there were 14 or 15 that were exclusive to Blu-ray", Sony's Randy Waynick told a meeting in San Francisco, according to Bloomberg. Sony is relying on exclusive movies to drive demand, having shipped only 100,000 units in 2006.

The U.S. sales target for HD DVD players has been lowered to 1 million from the previous 1.8 million prediction. "Obviously we are going to have to lower our previous global estimate," Toshiba's Yoshihide Fujii said. The HD DVD group is claiming that it has sold 150,000 dedicated HD DVD players, giving it the lead when you exclude the PS3 (Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on also excluded).

Source:
BBC News

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27 user comments

114.6.2007 16:58
hughjars
Inactive

Here's what Sony really think (now); it makes a change from the idiotic 'we already won' BS they have been condescending people with since CES 2007.

Sony now declare the high def war has only just begun!

Quote:
Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Sony says the war has just begun

Sony (SNE) executives in the United States are well aware that the battle has barely begun between their Blu-ray disc format for high-definition content and rival HD DVD, they told me over lunch this week.

Randy Waynick, senior vice president of marketing in Sony’s Home Products Division, said that Sony has sold somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 stand-alone Blu-ray disc players so far; that number does not include the hundreds of thousands of PlayStation 3 consoles that include a Blu-ray drive. That number is low enough, I told him, that it probably will be dwarfed by the number of high definition players that sell in the month of November alone. He didn’t disagree. (The holiday season and its discounts will really begin to shape the HD player landscape. Note: Microsoft (MSFT) has backed HD DVD with an add-on for the Xbox 360.)

Meanwhile, the rival HD DVD format is showing signs of life. Though fewer movie studios are backing the HD DVD format, the machines that play the discs are far more affordable than Blu-ray players. At Amazon.com, the Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player costs $250, and is the top-selling DVD player as of Thursday morning. Sony’s most affordable Blu-ray player, the BDP-S300, costs twice as much. The highest-ranked Blu-ray player on Amazon’s list is at #30.

Waynick said he believes one format, either Blu-ray or HD DVD, will win this format war – the players that combine both formats are just too expensive, he said. He acknowledged that Blu-ray’s price would be a big factor in determining which format wins, and said Sony is working hard to close the gap.

I pushed a bit on this point about price. If HD DVD players are already selling for $250, it’s conceivable that they could be at $199 or even less during the holiday season sales, I pointed out. If the Chinese manufacturers start building HD DVD players, the price will get especially low. How will Blu-ray compete? Waynick pointed to the larger volume of movies that are available in Blu-ray format, which is a decent argument.

But again, Amazon.com’s listings offered a powerful counterpoint Thursday morning. On the list of top-selling DVDs, Planet Earth in HD DVD format is ranked #4 – higher than the regular DVD versions of Seinfeld - Season 8, The Sopranos: The Complete First Season, and Ghost Rider. The top-selling Blu-ray title is Planet Earth – but it’s way down at #19. I’ve been checking for several days, and they’ve stayed in roughly the same positions.

What does this mean? Here’s my take:

Blu-ray has an early lead, but that doesn’t count for much. What matters is, who will have the lowest-priced high-definition players at a decent quality level when mainstream consumers finally start buying HD?

If the mainstream starts buying HD players this holiday season, expect to see HD DVD surge ahead of Blu-ray in a big way. Market makers like Wal-Mart will run with whatever player they can price below $200, just to draw people into stores. And most people in the mainstream won’t necessarily buy 10 HD movies; they’ll buy one or two, and wait for the studios to follow the installed base.

And if HD DVD sells big, you’d best believe the Hollywood studios will follow. Aside from Sony, they really don’t care with HD format wins – just as long as they get sell a lot more movies.
http://blogs.business2.com/utilitybelt/2...y_vs_hd_dv.html
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jun 2007 @ 18:08

214.6.2007 17:18

http://blogs.business2.com/utilitybe..._vs_hd_dv.html

hughjars: Your link doesn't work.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jun 2007 @ 17:36

314.6.2007 18:10
hughjars
Inactive

Sorry about that it got truncated, Fixed now.

Thanks.

It should have read (without the space between http & the colon :)

http ://blogs.business2.com/utilitybelt/2007/06/bluray_vs_hd_dv.html

414.6.2007 18:17
fgamer
Inactive

Don't you see how Sony is including PS3's in it's Blu-ray sell numbers? Now look how HD-DVD is EXcluding the 360 add-ons, because their not trying to spin their numbers like Sony is. I think we all should support HD-DVD in the near future. Also, they'll be no porn on Blu-ray(Sony has said in the past)...just a side note!;)

514.6.2007 18:33

What are the numbers for 360 HD-DVD add-ons sold?

614.6.2007 18:47

The adult industry will decide the war just as they did with VHS and beta max. When the industry comes down on one side its all over.

714.6.2007 22:55

Quote:
Out of the top 20 blockbusters "there were 14 or 15 that were exclusive to Blu-ray", Sony's Randy Waynick told a meeting in San Francisco, according to Bloomberg. Sony is relying on exclusive movies to drive demand, having shipped only 100,000 units in 2006.
This should not come to a shock to anyone Blu-ray has alot of Exclusives which is there driving force to winning the HD market in US & EU not bragging about how cheap there Hardware is.HD-DVD flooding the market with old titles everyday that most people have on SD.How long its going to take HD-DVD to see that its software not Hardware that going to have the final say in the outcome.It wont be long before Universal give in to the pressure & go format neutral
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jun 2007 @ 22:57

815.6.2007 0:14

[quote]The adult industry will decide the war just as they did with VHS and beta max. When the industry comes down on one side its all over.[quote]The adult industry will not be as much of a deciding factor as it was when VHS and Betamax because now the mojority of adult materail is download/ viewed over the internet rather than bought on DVD's.

915.6.2007 0:15

Quote:
The adult industry will decide the war just as they did with VHS and beta max. When the industry comes down on one side its all over.
The adult industry will not be as much of a deciding factor as it was when VHS and Betamax because now the mojority of adult materail is download/ viewed over the internet rather than bought on DVD's.

1015.6.2007 2:33
Ludikhris
Inactive

i love to see the HD DVD guys come out and talk smack when HDDVD has fallen behinde. HDDVD groupd doesn't want to count PS3s? Thats fine, you still have to count the software they buy and by the software figures HDDVD is getting an early burial. Not that they can't come back, but they getting their asses handed to them, facts. I do see the HDDVDs point in not counting the PS3 sales but lets be honest now, just because they don't buy 'as many' movies overall doesn't mean you just throw them out the window. That would mean the stats would read all 150000 bluray owners bought like 40 movies a piece already. That's illogical. You have to consider them, at least in part.

1115.6.2007 3:13
26r0cK
Inactive

@ Ludikhris - i definately agree.

1215.6.2007 4:46
hughjars
Inactive

The HD DVD group is very happy to discuss PS3 numbers.

In fact the percentage of PS3s to BD stand-alones means BD is effectively PS3 now aways.

The truth is that PS3 gave the BD side a short tactical boost and has now stalled with sales in the USA around 15,000 a week and still falling.

Sales of both formats remain pitifully low, especially in Europe (which is why mention of the position in Europe is particularly funny).

BD movie sales remain very poor considering the numbers of PS3s out there.

The split in sales between the formats has come down from slightly better than 70:30 for BD to now a fraction under 60:40.....and this at a time with BD had the boost of the POTC movies.

It's also worth bearing in mind that there aren't another 3 million PS3s going to be sold any time soon.

Meanwhile HD DVD players just get on with selling well and selling HD DVD discs.
....and in the coming year the numbers will be boosted by Toshiba's laptops incorporating an HD DVD burner (they sold almost 10 million last year, more than the number of PS3s sold so it could be very significant in this).

We can't tell just yet about the full impact of the recent big HD DVD sales cos 5 or 7 freebie discs were included with those players (depending on the deal) and it'll probably take a little while for the new owners to go out & get new ones regularly.

But credit to the Sony PR machine for (for once) coming out with something much closer to the truth
(even if it does make all their fanboys and their ravings to date look more than a little ridiculous).

Vindicated? Moi? LMAO :D ;)

The 'war' hasn't even got started yet......and finally Sony admits it.

........which is one reason why Universal won't be changing stance any time soon.....nevermind the whole question of why should they assist Sony in dominating the movie & video industry for the next gen.

(Jeeez give it a rest, what are you going to take up next, huh?
Proclaiming the end of the world "any minute now.......er, I mean any minute now......ummmmm, now!.......etc etc" )

......and HD DVD owners continue to benefit from the distribution and publishing deal around the world that mean that many of those supposedly 'BD exclusive discs' turn out to be available on HD DVD afterall and with no region coding you can get them from anywhere in the world & enjoy.
Not all of them of course but very many of them nevertheless.

1315.6.2007 6:22

My problem with this is the monopolizing of the movie title. Rather than let consumers decide which they want, many of the the companies make exclusive deals and require one or the other.

Amazing how Microsoft get sued up the rear for this same practice yet Sony can do it all they want. EA Sports does the same thing. Their sport title suck, yet they have exclusive rights to the professional sports.

I have looked at these systems and I must say that I like HDDVD much better mainly because it has ethernet connections and is compatible with DVD's. Blu-ray is too monopolized and the systems will not be diversified.

1415.6.2007 7:27
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by gallagher:
I like HDDVD much better mainly because it has ethernet connections and is compatible with DVD's. Blu-ray is too monopolized and the systems will not be diversified.
- Uh oh, steady there gallagher, you'll be having the BD fanclub on to you.

All BD players on the market right now can (to varying degrees of quality) play regular DVDs.

The bit they prefer to keep quiet about is that whilst SD DVD playback is mandatory in the HD DVD spec
SD DVD playback is not a mandatory requirement in the BD spec.


BD could at any time decide to ditch SD DVD .......and those who moan about 'old' movies in high def and how they have no intention of replacing their SD DVD collections might find that comment interesting and worth thinking about a little.

I must admit I do find the idea of those exclusive studio deals fundamentally anti-consumer.

But then if all the movie studios were format neutral BD would have absolutely nothing to claim as an advantage over HD DVD in any practical sense at all.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jun 2007 @ 7:28

1515.6.2007 7:57

Seems odd that we would even think of buying from a company (Sony) that consistantly walks all over consumer rights, no matter how "Good" their format is, after all Beta video quality was better than VHS, and I don't see Betamax VCRs on the shelf at Wal-Mart stores.

1615.6.2007 10:12

Personally I'm gonna wait until the generic HD players come out and also at a better price. Remember when DVD players first came out, they were selling for £1000. Nowadays they practically give them away.

When I see a player that can do both formats at a decent price, then I'll buy.

1715.6.2007 14:58

There aren't that many movies out there that I would drop $30 on. When better movies are released there will be better sales. I will buy Star Wars 1-6, LOTR 1-3, Matrix Trilogy, not the one star crap they are trying to sell now. The two Pirates of the Carribean movies were the first movies I was actually looking foward to buying. I had to go to 4 different stores to find them because they were sold out the same day.

How can you not count PS3 sales in the total? Unless the stand alone player price drops you would be a fool not to buy a ps3 as a BD player. Even then the ps3 will be updated more (upscaling is now reality),it has wi-fi, and reads memory cards. I didn't buy my PS3 for the games because you can't even call most of them games. Until there are quality games I will play the Wii and watch movies on Blu-ray.

1815.6.2007 16:02

Can anyone remember Betamax tapes?? How sony failed at this once before. They are setting up yo do it again, why pay $600+ for a blueray player when HD-DVD players are now selling at $300. More people are going to buy the cheaper player and demand that the titles get released on HD-DVD, for now I am just watching till one wins out to choose a player to buy (my dvd player works just fine). Poor Sony here is to betamax2 :)

1915.6.2007 16:58
flyingv
Inactive

Quote:
Out of the top 20 blockbusters "there were 14 or 15 that were exclusive to Blu-ray", Sony's Randy Waynick told a meeting in San Francisco, according to Bloomberg. Sony is relying on exclusive movies to drive demand, having shipped only 100,000 units in 2006.


As long as these movies are still released on regular DVD's the majority of the people out there will continue to purchace them rather than convert over to a new format anyway. The average person cannot afford these new "HD DVD" formats until they come down in price. But by the numbers, this shouldn't be much more than a year or so. If you were to ask anyone that I know what the new formats were, that wouldn't know what you were talking about!

2016.6.2007 16:36
hughjars
Inactive

No-one mentioned the 'Blu-ray disc rot' yet?

That's not going to help BD's cause at all.

It may just be a short-run batch problem or it may be Sony using cheapo materials.

It'll be fun if this develops into something big. Recalls?

I hear that so far it's confined to 'The Presitge' atm, but if it spreads to other things especially PS3 games etc this could be the moment BD permanently lost the wider public's trust......and no amount of PR shilling by the fanclub will ever turn around a perception like that.

Perception could be the real problem here and not necessarily the facts of the matter.

Looks like an interesting twist in things.

2116.6.2007 23:25

Originally posted by hughjars:
No-one mentioned the 'Blu-ray disc rot' yet?

That's not going to help BD's cause at all.

It may just be a short-run batch problem or it may be Sony using cheapo materials.

It'll be fun if this develops into something big. Recalls?

I hear that so far it's confined to 'The Presitge' atm, but if it spreads to other things especially PS3 games etc this could be the moment BD permanently lost the wider public's trust......and no amount of PR shilling by the fanclub will ever turn around a perception like that.

Perception could be the real problem here and not necessarily the facts of the matter.

Looks like an interesting twist in things.

As always your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

2217.6.2007 4:51
hughjars
Inactive

No.

As always you downplay & soft-soap anything that you imagine might 'hurt' your beloved.

Nevermind that there may well be a truth here folks could do with being informed about or that some actual paying consumers might suffer loss tho, eh?

2317.6.2007 5:41

Originally posted by hughjars:
No.

As always you downplay & soft-soap anything that you imagine might 'hurt' your beloved.

Nevermind that there may well be a truth here folks could do with being informed about or that some actual paying consumers might suffer loss tho, eh?
Suffer loss from what that if your disc got rot....you can exchange it for a new one...So where is the suffer also it has been reported that most of the disc still play.....


Like i said mountain out of a mole hill...

2417.6.2007 7:01
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
Suffer loss from what that if your disc got rot....you can exchange it for a new one...
- Hmmm, that's strange, when Universal were saying that they would replace defective HD DVD discs that had a problem a little while back you were on here trying to claim it was a huge problem yet here......?

LMAO

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
So where is the suffer also it has been reported that most of the disc still play.....


Like i said mountain out of a mole hill...
- Yeah right ...."most", cos you'd really know just how many it affects and how large a problem it is.

Soft-soap away.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jun 2007 @ 7:02

2518.6.2007 0:27

Blockbusters now coming down on the side of Blu-ray.

http://www.psu.com/node/11698

70% of customers opting for Blu-ray at the moment, they say.

These might simply be people testing the water with a disc rental for a PS3, but even so, consumers will become aware that one format is becoming more prominent than the other and it will make a difference when they eventually choose hardware.

2618.6.2007 4:09

Originally posted by connolly:
Blockbusters now coming down on the side of Blu-ray.

http://www.psu.com/node/11698

70% of customers opting for Blu-ray at the moment, they say.

These might simply be people testing the water with a disc rental for a PS3, but even so, consumers will become aware that one format is becoming more prominent than the other and it will make a difference when they eventually choose hardware.

Here a link from a unbiased site so the HD-DVD mouth piece wouldn't have any issue about it....

This is a major blow to HD-DVD no matter how they think it wont be.


Blu-ray-is-the-war-over/" target="_blank">http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/17/block...s-the-war-over/
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Jun 2007 @ 4:14

2721.6.2007 15:21

The battle rages on :)

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