AfterDawn: Tech news

Blu-ray title suffers coating rot?

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 16 Jun 2007 17:45 User comments (42)

Blu-ray title suffers coating rot? A thread over at AVS Forum has been running for weeks now, discussing what many have discovered; "Blu-ray disc rot". Some users are reporting finding small spots on their discs that render them unplayable, particularly with "The Prestige". However, as it usually goes, many other users are reporting that their discs are still working correctly and do not show the dreaded signs of rot.
It's impossible to use a forum to judge how widespread a problem really is, but in the past, forum posts have lead to product recalls. If you check your Blu-ray titles now and find that the data side seems to be showing signs of rot (picture below), you should seek a refund or replacement disc immediately.

Here is an image posted by the user Venom5 on AVS Forum...



Sources:
Engadget HD
AVS Forum

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42 user comments

116.6.2007 17:50
hughjars
Inactive

I said elsewhere that this is God's revenge for them f*cking about & taking the pi*s with that BS about Manchester Cathedral.

They apologised so it may be limited.

Kidding aside, wow, just what neither BD nor the PS3 needed right now.

It'll be interesting to see just how widespread this is.

Even if it's not the perception of major trouble could do a hell of a lot of damage.

216.6.2007 17:53

I think they just forgot to advertise another part of Blu's DRM... open the package and you begin the "rental period", after which your disc becomes unplayable without the purchase of another license, aka disc :)

316.6.2007 17:57

It's still early in Blu-Ray's life; as such I bet this problem is related to the printing plants not properly printing the DVD. They'll get the kinks worked out.

416.6.2007 18:02

The problem isn't widespread so its probably just some (really) bad pressed disks.

If this was more common among Blu-ray disks then yeah I would agree with akaangus and say its the other DRM Sony has not mentioned yet. :-p

I wonder if something like this has also happended to DVDs earlier in their life or even in the other competitor, HD DVD.

516.6.2007 18:10

PeaInAPod and Pop_Smith have good points.

HD-DVD had playback problems with some copies of Children of Men and The Good Shepherd:

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/9229.cfm

The good thing is both sides are doing something to rectify the problem and are replacing the defective discs.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jun 2007 @ 18:12

616.6.2007 18:54

HD-DVD Rule just cause it's not sony's

716.6.2007 19:28

Damn it! Sure enough, there are pits in two discs. One of them I've never even watched. Just like the early DVDs had, only worse. I bought both formats, so I still have one of each that's playable, but I paid a lot of money for these collector's boxes. There is NO excuse for this. Did they learn nothing from DVDs? Settles it for me. No more middle of the road. From now on, if it isn't on HD DVD, I don't buy it.

816.6.2007 19:55
26r0cK
Inactive

Originally posted by rihgt682:
HD-DVD Rule just cause it's not sony's
Blu Ray Rules because it is SONY. and has a bigger capacity...feel ripped off with HD DVD capacity.

916.6.2007 20:25

Yeah but capacity isn't an issue as no current titles today even fill up the disc. If they did menus,special features, and extra audio tracks wouldn't exist.

1016.6.2007 20:49

Not true. The Black Hawk Down release saw 49 gigs worth on Blu-ray.

1116.6.2007 21:14

What I am saying is that 49 Gbs was not just for the movie and the audio track corresponding to its release region. I bet that included " __ # of hours of extras footage", 5 additional Dolby HD audio tracks, and who knows how big those interactive menus get. I am saying Blu-Ray's capacity is a moot point because no movie(not the extras, and not the commentary, but the actual featured film) actually uses the full capacity of Blu-Ray's disc, same goes for HD. Sure the movie studios may use a discs full capacity but that full 49 Gb disc is including extras thats not just the movie.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jun 2007 @ 22:01



"Some people have no damn sense." - Nephilim, March 27 2007 @ 18:08

1216.6.2007 21:38

Perfectly said PEAINAPOD.

1316.6.2007 22:03

yeah a good point but people buy movies for extras and stuff like that now days. Just like cars with dvd players as long as the kids sit down and shut up they will buy it. Even if it gets 20 MPG or 50 MPG. I have to say on the Cars dvd they used some of that space for a short "film". Im sure many other dvd as well a next-gen media will use this space now that they have the option.

1416.6.2007 23:22

Originally posted by PeaInAPod:
What I am saying is that 49 Gbs was not just for the movie and the audio track corresponding to its release region. I bet that included " __ # of hours of extras footage", 5 additional Dolby HD audio tracks, and who knows how big those interactive menus get. I am saying Blu-Ray's capacity is a moot point because no movie(not the extras, and not the commentary, but the actual featured film) actually uses the full capacity of Blu-Ray's disc, same goes for HD. Sure the movie studios may use a discs full capacity but that full 49 Gb disc is including extras thats not just the movie.
Not really because if you look at the trailers & Extra's most Blu-ray there are not done in High-def.High-def take alot of space in that case if it didn't then there would be not need for a bigger disc they would be still using DVD-9.Audio is a space hog on any HD-format.Extra's & Trailers play little in to most high-def video's because there are not done in High-def on Blu-ray
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jun 2007 @ 23:35

1517.6.2007 2:11

I believe a good portion of the space in Blu-ray is used as DRM. And well, this seems real funny to hear now considering Sony was being sued on infringing some company's special coating or materials used on their Blu-ray disc recently.

Edit: I just removed the quotes I used

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jun 2007 @ 2:12

1617.6.2007 4:37
hughjars
Inactive

Anyone who wants to know how much actual movie is taken up on the disc can easily see with a straight BD-rip.

The vast majority are 24gb and under with one or two at 40gb

(Black Hawk Down for instance is 42.50gb with English PCM 5.1 Surround; English Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround; French Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround;
Subtitles/Captions - English SDH; English Subtitles, French Subtitles, Spanish Subtitles, Portuguese Subtitles, Chinese Subtitles, Korean Subtitles & Thai Subtitles.
It also 3 Audio Commentaries & a documentary.
Basically a ton of 'extra' cr@p other than the movie which would come in at well under 40gb without it,
It certainly does not 'need' a 50gb capacity disc.

I'd lay money on it that the same thing would fit on a dual layer 30gb HD DVD disc with VC-1 encoding, easily.
Even without VC-1 encoding or any changes I'd say it looks like it would probably fit on the new 17gb per layer dual layer 34gb HD DVD disc that is coming soon.

Of course clunky & "dead" (according to Steve Jobs) Java is also a space-hungry element HD DVD happily does without.

But as Paramount & Warner's dual format releases show, with a modern & efficient codec like VC-1 you just don't need all that size - or transfer rate for that matter.

The truth is it was only there to allow Sony to continue collecting royalties on the ancient, almost 20yr old, MPEG2 codec which needed that size & transfer rate to try to look in any way half decent......and usually failed to anyways, the list of poor transfers is almost all BD and in large part thanks to MPEG2.

It's so bad in fact that Sony now claim they will re-release the worst titles to correct their error(s) - wow, after how many months? That's assuming they actually do & it's not just quietly forgotten.

But to return to topic.......

The stuff we're seeing on those discs looks like oxidisation of some kind, I've heard laser disc had that at one point so it may easily be resolved......their problem at this stage is how widespread is it and how badly will it affect their brand as news of this spreads.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jun 2007 @ 4:38

1717.6.2007 5:35

Quote:
The truth is it was only there to allow Sony to continue collecting royalties on the ancient, almost 20yr old, MPEG2 codec which needed that size & transfer rate to try to look in any way half decent......and usually failed to anyways, the list of poor transfers is almost all BD and in large part thanks to MPEG2.
That is totally not true.That was a issue with the First Gen Blu-ray titles like Underworld.2 & House of flying daggers it was only like 5 titles that looked horror able.But til this Date Crank which is mpeg2 still hold the highest mark as the best picture on Blu-ray.Hughjars stop spreading these lies on here you don't own any Blu-ray movies so how would you know?????You don't, only what everyone say thats what all your Misleading info be based on.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jun 2007 @ 5:37

1817.6.2007 6:24

Quote:
I think they just forgot to advertise another part of Blu's DRM... open the package and you begin the "rental period", after which your disc becomes unplayable without the purchase of another license, aka disc :)

Lol, you can never be sure when it comes to sony. If only sony would care about their customers as much as their money.

1917.6.2007 6:46
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
Hughjars stop spreading these lies on here


- What lies?

It's true that the list of real stinker encodes is (with one exception) full of BD MPEG2 howlers.

It's also true that with a modern codec you don't need BD's capacity or bitrate.

.....and finally I was also 100% true in giving the size of 'Black Hawk Down' which does not turn out (even with most of the 'extras' left in) to be close to the 50gb you imagined it was.


Originally posted by Nextgen76:
you don't own any Blu-ray movies so how would you know????
- Well, stickly speaking that's not entirely true.

LMAO. :P

Originally posted by Nextgen76:
You don't, only what everyone say thats what all your Misleading info be based on.
- I have friends with BD players, k?

.....amd like I said I have a little collection of *cough* BD movies *cough*.

Try not to take it all too much to heart tho, eh?

..........and may I just say how amusing I find it that you are not trying to claim here that this whole tread is a mountain being made out of a molehill.

Like you'd really know whether it was or not, eh?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jun 2007 @ 6:58

2017.6.2007 7:31

Blu-ray is the Wave of the Future! woohoo (sarcasm for those of you without a brain)
Maybe Blu-ray disc are made of Blue Cheese and are supposed to Rot for that enhanced flavor.

2117.6.2007 7:36

reason number 193,863,0181 to not buy ANYTHING you cant get for free online. the time of respecting companies that dont respect the consumer is over, capitalism is a joke if you start out on the bottom.

2217.6.2007 8:15

Originally posted by rihgt682:
HD-DVD Rule just cause it's not sony's

Well that's an ignorant statement if Ive ever heard one.

And I agree, its just some stuff that has to be refined in the process, besides its not like they dont refund the disks.

2317.6.2007 8:44

I would love too see BD beat HD-DVD just because but thats not what this topic is it's the rot that worries me what if they really haven't made the disc that good this time around.

What it's really only the first Generation and almost everyone just got into the regular DVD's and I am kind of made about this format I just got use too having dvds and burning them and all.

I would like too know when they tv shows wil they put the whole season on 1 disk because they will be able too now or at least I think you could instead of making 7 disk for 1 season.

2417.6.2007 16:57

Ok Blue-ray is not going to make it and HD-DVD will win this whole crap...its cheaper and cheaper for people to mass produce..also did I meantion its cheaper..


back to topic we'll that sucks for Blue-ray disc!

2517.6.2007 19:43

BR dose have size about 10-20GB however its a wonky setup add Sony onto it and their anti consumer schemeing tis just not worth it unless they can prove they can dish out 100GB discs and there be nothing wrong with them and if it requires new hardware its almost pointless to try it.

Still the brunt of the differences in BR and Hdvd is that sony has been heading the tech and effort a lousy 20GB is not goign to help sony win this they need to put the protections on the back burner get the bugs worked out and get 100GB made and done.

Until then Hdvd offers a more coherent tech that slightly cheaper,2 discs will make up for anything needed, frankly 2 or 3 DVD9s are all thats really needed.

2618.6.2007 8:36

And now - back to the topic.... ;)

2718.6.2007 8:43

Originally posted by eandtc:
And now - back to the topic.... ;)

the topic at hand is a non issue, all starting formats have issues hell this is like the 360 and its stock of poorly built 360s that have heating issues.

it happens, hopefully this is not as bad as the 360s hardware issues.

So now what, the war goes on until they give up or merge.

2818.6.2007 10:29

Originally posted by wolf123:
I would like too know when they tv shows wil they put the whole season on 1 disk because they will be able too now or at least I think you could instead of making 7 disk for 1 season.
No, see, they'll never do that, because then they'll lose money. They'll have 7 discs, each with a bunch of features you'll never watch and charge a lot of money. That's how business works.

Like how Saab COULD make a car as strong as a jet, but doesn't.

Like how doctors don't cure anything, they just give you ways to cope with it.

2918.6.2007 10:46

Quote:
Originally posted by wolf123:
I would like too know when they tv shows wil they put the whole season on 1 disk because they will be able too now or at least I think you could instead of making 7 disk for 1 season.
No, see, they'll never do that, because then they'll lose money. They'll have 7 discs, each with a bunch of features you'll never watch and charge a lot of money. That's how business works.

Like how Saab COULD make a car as strong as a jet, but doesn't.

Like how doctors don't cure anything, they just give you ways to cope with it.
sukouto
they would adjust it around some anime is done about 1-2GB a 30 min ep for SD so HD would 4-10 a ep,at 4GB a ep you can put only 3 or 5 onto disc, however if they are smart they would offer a SD quality set at 800-1000GB a pop they could put most 25ep shows/seasons onto 1 disc and that would be worth 20 to me,100$ for a 25 ep show with fickle Americanizations just dose not cut it nor dose it cut it for TV shows.

3018.6.2007 13:04

that looks like chemials misted on it. i lost timsplitters 2 to that once, and the disk looks the same! i sprayed lysol or febreeze, and it burned dots on my disk and my ps2, leaving an untuched disk print on the ps2 cover.

3118.6.2007 19:56

I believe this is what will happen unless someone says screw the format war and waits for the next gen of dvds then I Believe HD-DVD is not enough capacity So BD disk will win and it will be around for what 5 or 6 years thats what we had dvds for maybe alittle longer 2013 thats the end of regular dvd 95-98% of people have dvd players by this time at least 40% will have BD dvd recorders and dvd players in there homes.

By this time in 2010 HD-DVD will die a new format will be born it will be virtual DVD and this already excist if you look back it already was announced the next Gen DVD so I think I will wait because right now I have plenty of DVDs and I will have stuff too make on these things for a while.

Plus once they have a dual burner for old and new dvds it will be the most spectacular thing ever.


Blu-Ray rules


DIE A GOOD DEATH HD-DVD.

3219.6.2007 0:55

Originally posted by wolf123:
I believe this is what will happen unless someone says screw the format war and waits for the next gen of dvds then I Believe HD-DVD is not enough capacity So BD disk will win and it will be around for what 5 or 6 years thats what we had dvds for maybe alittle longer 2013 thats the end of regular dvd 95-98% of people have dvd players by this time at least 40% will have BD dvd recorders and dvd players in there homes.

By this time in 2010 HD-DVD will die a new format will be born it will be virtual DVD and this already excist if you look back it already was announced the next Gen DVD so I think I will wait because right now I have plenty of DVDs and I will have stuff too make on these things for a while.

Plus once they have a dual burner for old and new dvds it will be the most spectacular thing ever.


Blu-Ray rules


DIE A GOOD DEATH HD-DVD.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
meh Hdvd can go to 150GB on new hardware and it seems to go over 50GB on BR will require new hardware as well, at least thats the vibe I am getting.

its always something I guess, I was leaning to BR now I am leaning to Hdvd because they are simply "better".

3319.6.2007 13:22
duckNrun
Inactive

Originally posted by wolf123:
I would like too know when they tv shows wil they put the whole season on 1 disk because they will be able too now or at least I think you could instead of making 7 disk for 1 season.
I do not believe you will ever see this for one reason: MONEY

They can 'justify' a $60 $80 or even $99 price tag on tv series becuase of the perception that you are REALLY PAYING for 5 discs.. so at $40 on sale 5 discs aren't a 'bad' deal.

Now look at the faces of the people who walk up and see ONE DISC selling for $64.98

Yes there a whole season of tv shows on there (they know that) and yes they will have it all on one disc (they know that) and yes they really are not paying anything more than before when they got it on 5 discs (they know that) but I think you will find most people having trouble getting over the hurdle that they are paying $65 for ONE disc regardless of the content amount.

It all comes back to the psychology of consumerism, packaging and pricing. Why do you think stores sell stuff for $xxx.99 or $xxx.48 instead of just saying screw it lets round it off... because the CHANGE allows someone who buys something for $99.99 to say well I got that for under 100 bucks (yeah like that extra penny was gonna kill the deal... BUT IN SOME INSTANCES IT DOES! lol Thats why the pricing scheme is set like that.)

But anyways thats why you will not see whole seasons of episodes of 1 disc-- at least not until the format is ingrainded as the current SD dvd and priced the same as it is now... and even then you may just end up with multiple discs that have all those extras we all care about seeing.... like interviews with the hairstylist, or the interview with the 'best boy' talking about the time he ran an errand for director spielberg and brought back a live virginia pig thinking he was told to get a ham to buy instead of a ham on rye-- and thats why theres a pig seen running in the background at timecode xxx.xxx.xx because it was an inside joke for the cast and crew---blah blah blah

3419.6.2007 23:37

duckNrun

funny I would only buy it if the whole thing was under 40 I don't pay $5+ or more per disc for anything.


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

3520.6.2007 2:13
duckNrun
Inactive

lots of others sure do! I can remember when they were wanting $100 for ONE season of the Sopranos on 5 discs!

--edited for typo (blasted pain meds, late nights and keyboards just dont mix sometimes...)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Jun 2007 @ 5:22

3620.6.2007 5:07

Quote:
It all comes back to the psychology of consumerism, packaging and pricing. Why do you think stores sell stuff for $xxx.99 or $xxx.48 instead of just saying screw it lets round it off... because the CHANGE allows someone who buys something for $99.99 to say well I got that for under 100 bucks (yeah like that extra penny was gonna kill the deal... BUT IN SOME INSTANCES IT DOES! lol Thats why the pricing scheme is set like that.)
This is the reason for it nowadays, but originally this was done to force cash register operators to make change for purchases, so there would be a receipt. Just FYI. :)

3720.6.2007 9:59
hughjars
Inactive

Sony's DADC plant in the USA was well known for producing, especially towards the end of the LaserDisc era, discs known to suffer extensively from rot.

Maybe they just are reverting to their old ways?

BTW I hear theres more than 'The Presige' involved in this, 'Stranger Than Fiction', 'Pearl Harbor', 'Gone in 60 Seconds' and 'The Departed' have all been mentioned so far.

3821.6.2007 17:39

looks like any other marks :)

3921.6.2007 17:49

Originally posted by hughjars:
Sony's DADC plant in the USA was well known for producing, especially towards the end of the LaserDisc era, discs known to suffer extensively from rot.

Maybe they just are reverting to their old ways?

BTW I hear theres more than 'The Presige' involved in this, 'Stranger Than Fiction', 'Pearl Harbor', 'Gone in 60 Seconds' and 'The Departed' have all been mentioned so far.
maybe this is like what happened to me, a spray that burned the plastic. then, using old news, they push this rot and make it believable. has sony officially said anything anyhow?

4025.6.2007 12:04

One good reason I like this site is--in the course of others using wit and a small amount of indignation to discuss/debate the issues--I am sure the members who read the comments get a broader range of facts to figure out their own problems/needs/ideas. I like it. Human minds excel when provoked to prove a point. Well done, folks.

4125.6.2007 12:25

Originally posted by Jmark:
One good reason I like this site is--in the course of others using wit and a small amount of indignation to discuss/debate the issues--I am sure the members who read the comments get a broader range of facts to figure out their own problems/needs/ideas. I like it. Human minds excel when provoked to prove a point. Well done, folks.

Need to take with a drop of salt what most say or post :P

do some digging and believe it or not for yourself ^^

If this is real I don't see it hurting BR, BR has to much for/against it this is just random pressing of bad discs if its real at all,unless sony states otherwise..

4225.6.2007 12:32

Although I only use regular DVDs and have no plans otherwise...my quest for KNOWING how things work is my fascination. For example, what would I gain with the newer technologies? Very little--a clearer picture--slightly. Another reason I want to know about technologies is to follow the Chinese domination in this field. They absolutely own the DVD market.

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