AfterDawn: Tech news

US Government goes after console mod chip makers

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 01 Aug 2007 15:47 User comments (118)

US Government goes after console mod chip makers This morning, the US Government announced it has executed 32 search warrants in 16 different states in an effort to crackdown on console mod chip makers, claiming the chips cause the video game industry billions of dollars in lost revenue each year.
The warrants were out for companies that produce mod chips, which effectively bypass any copyright protection, allowing gamers to play downloaded or copied games. To date, there is no mod chip for the Sony PlayStation 3 but there are for the PS2, Microsoft Xbox, Nintendo Wii and there are hacked DVD drives for the Xbox 360.

The warrants were the result of investigations by Immigrations and Customs Enforcement (ICE). According to ICE, seizures of pirated works increased by 83 percent in 2006.

"Illicit devices like the ones targeted today are created with one purpose in mind, subverting copyright protections,"
ICE Homeland Security assistant secretary Julie Myers said. "These crimes cost legitimate businesses billions of dollars annually and facilitate multiple other layers of criminality, such as smuggling, software piracy and money laundering."

The US Chamber of Commerce has made a very bold statement, claiming that counterfeiting and piracy, of all types, cost the US economy over $200 billion each year.

Microsoft supported the warrants of course, and said so in a prepared statement. "Microsoft applauds ICE for its effort to reduce piracy and protect the intellectual property of Microsoft and its industry partners," it said.

"This is an important step in the continuing fight against piracy and the threat it presents to the global economy and consumers throughout the world."


Source:
BetaNews

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118 user comments

11.8.2007 16:11

Im glad that the ICE Homeland Security is protecting my safety by going after........ mod chip makers? *sigh*

21.8.2007 16:28
armorthis
Inactive

That is rediculous. . .

31.8.2007 17:01

does this mean there goin after swap magic too

41.8.2007 17:22

Originally posted by tucker001:
does this mean there goin after swap magic too
mod chip makers. whoever makes the chips and sells them. if you dont make or sell the chips dont be worried.

51.8.2007 18:00

wow. They will get of their duff to go after mod chip makers because the industry claims billions in losses. But we can't get the US Government to enforce immigration law and stop the 10 billion dollars per year we American in California have to pay to service illegal aliens.

Good job President Bush! I feel so much safer now.

61.8.2007 18:38

Originally posted by tucker001:
does this mean there goin after swap magic too
Although swap magic is less effective than mod chips im sure the govt doesnt care and will go after sellers of it.

71.8.2007 19:19

Who ever got the money has got the power,Hollywood,media america, Corporations are the true government.

81.8.2007 19:34

Originally posted by asoggy:
wow. They will get of their duff to go after mod chip makers because the industry claims billions in losses. But we can't get the US Government to enforce immigration law and stop the 10 billion dollars per year we American in California have to pay to service illegal aliens.

Good job President Bush! I feel so much safer now.
DITTO!

91.8.2007 19:48
vinny13
Inactive

YAY CANADA!

lol

101.8.2007 20:08

Originally posted by asoggy:
wow. They will get of their duff to go after mod chip makers because the industry claims billions in losses. But we can't get the US Government to enforce immigration law and stop the 10 billion dollars per year we American in California have to pay to service illegal aliens.

Good job President Bush! I feel so much safer now.
Nice rant. I completely agree.

111.8.2007 20:13

they have this arse backwards with console online and update reguraly modchips will decrees in their effectiveness to pirate games, they need to focuses on pirates and organized ISO sites not mod chip makers because people do ahve a legit use for modchips how else to play the backup I made of my game huh?huh? this is ridiculously stupid.

121.8.2007 20:21

Sad thing is I know people that are directly affected by this.....good job US gov't! Screw the war on terror, drugs, and shady corporate practices that are ruining our nation, lets go after nerds who like games!

Stupidest sh!t ever.

131.8.2007 20:38

Originally posted by asoggy:
wow. They will get of their duff to go after mod chip makers because the industry claims billions in losses. But we can't get the US Government to enforce immigration law and stop the 10 billion dollars per year we American in California have to pay to service illegal aliens.

Good job President Bush! I feel so much safer now.
Yeah it's all Bush's fault. Because I'm sure his Administration had anything to do with that.

141.8.2007 21:00

Originally posted by svtstang:
Sad thing is I know people that are directly affected by this.....good job US gov't! Screw the war on terror, drugs, and shady corporate practices that are ruining our nation, lets go after nerds who like games!

Stupidest sh!t ever.
Yeah this is gay, cause I don't wanna buy a whole new console just to play my imported games!! Plus, now it means I gotta be even more anal about who plays my games since for the future consoles I wont be able play back ups on them fearing people wont be so nice to my originals. $hit, aren't there more disastrous things like drugs and such to take down. Aaahhh, this is a big waste of time for the government.

152.8.2007 0:29
dpickett
Inactive

Behold the results of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to circumvent a copy protection system even if you use it for fair and legal purposes and don't pirate any material. The law that makes it a felony to rip a DVD you legally purchased even though it conflicts with earlier fair use laws.

The DMCA is a bunch of crap and needs to be thrown out. It was basically written by the entertainment industry, they shouldn't be writing laws.

162.8.2007 3:38

If the big N, Sony and Microsoft had made their consoles Region Free, I NEVER would had modded my console. I didn't ever consider making backups until I had a chip installed. These things are great.

I'm glad I backed up my games too. I lent out my original Zelda:TP to a guy at my work. He quit and moved away a week later without returning my game...@$$

172.8.2007 4:56

Originally posted by dpickett:
Behold the results of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, which makes it illegal to circumvent a copy protection system even if you use it for fair and legal purposes and don't pirate any material. The law that makes it a felony to rip a DVD you legally purchased even though it conflicts with earlier fair use laws.

The DMCA is a bunch of crap and needs to be thrown out. It was basically written by the entertainment industry, they shouldn't be writing laws.
Problem is, the lobbiests, who were former capitol hill people are encouraging former collegues to help the indusry. I think it is stupid. I bought it, I should have the right to back it up. Now, if I made copies and distribute them, then throw the book at me. But, if I am making a copy, so my little one doesn't destroy the orginal, then I should have the right.

182.8.2007 6:52

What the hell!!! did anyone read the one line that says that mod chips are only used subverting copyright protections. Someone should kick Julie Myers in her nuts. My friend literally has over 200 paid ps2 games with a third being imports since his Chinese. He needed the chips because the asshole at Sony prefer free trade one in their favor. This is one of the stupids things tax payers money could go to. Luckily I haven't got my Wii mod yet so it wouldn't getseize by this assholes.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Aug 2007 @ 8:29

192.8.2007 8:20

I was about a day away from getting a mod chip for my Wii, looks like I'll be holding off for a while now. It appears that OTB Mods was shut down, can't believe this bs...

202.8.2007 8:24

Yay for DVD drive firmware flashing :-P

Quote:
The US Chamber of Commerce has made a very bold statement, claiming that counterfeiting and piracy, of all types, cost the US economy over $200 billion each year.
So if thre were no mod chips, then people would spend $200 billion on entertainment? The $200 billion "not being spent on entertainment" is being spent elsewhere to help the economy.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Aug 2007 @ 8:37

212.8.2007 9:59

they need to take down blackcats-games.net not modchip makers/ 360 firmware/swap magic


Kindle Fire 1st Gen running Jelly Bean
Nexus S 4G running 4.1.1 Jelly Bean
PS3 Slim 3000 Model 4.3.1
PS3 ID: killbarney1123

222.8.2007 10:04
TheReturn
Inactive

What will happen to chip makers who are outside of the US?

232.8.2007 10:37

Originally posted by TheReturn:
What will happen to chip makers who are outside of the US?
They will import new chips to newly established dealers in US. :)

242.8.2007 10:42

Originally posted by tucker001:
they need to take down blackcats-games.net not modchip makers/ 360 firmware/swap magic
amen to that!


252.8.2007 10:49

and the ppl who buy the chips...what happens to them...or is it just the ppl who make the chips and sell them


oo and did modchipstore.com get hit or anything because there site looks a little different???

....dcma sucks...they should let ppl legally backup their own games

262.8.2007 11:03

Quote:
Originally posted by tucker001:
they need to take down blackcats-games.net not modchip makers/ 360 firmware/swap magic
amen to that!
I'd prefer if they didn't.

272.8.2007 11:04
TheReturn
Inactive

damn.....
modchips are going to be rare...
Plus high costs.

282.8.2007 11:28

blackcats has tons of isos

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Aug 2007 @ 14:07

Kindle Fire 1st Gen running Jelly Bean
Nexus S 4G running 4.1.1 Jelly Bean
PS3 Slim 3000 Model 4.3.1
PS3 ID: killbarney1123

292.8.2007 11:43

erm admitting you uploaded 84 gigs isnt exactly the most wise thing to do in a public forum me thinks....

Originally posted by tucker001:
i dont want them to take down blackcats either because i have a 2.0 ration 42 down 84 up



302.8.2007 11:50

This sux. There are more important things to worry about then banning modchips. Nice job bush.

312.8.2007 14:15

The United States Government Pty. Ltd.

322.8.2007 14:42

There is no sense in blaming ole George Dubya... I'm pretty positive he wasnt sitting in the oval office trying to find a reason to make all the 'hardcore gamers' around the world mad by banning modchips. the sad thing is that a lot of people use them for piracy. i know there are a few people that dont and that only use them to play backups of their legitimately owned games and for things of that sort. I have an xecuter 2.6ce in my xbox and i dont download games or anything of the sort, i got it so i could put a 300 gig hard drive in my xbox and use it as a media center. its not right that its happening but theres not much that can be done.

332.8.2007 16:10

sigh Just when I decided to get a PS2 laser replacement down the road in a year or two, this happens and now the site I was going to get mine done is temporarily down it seems sadly.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Aug 2007 @ 16:10

342.8.2007 16:20

This is not going to stop mod chip makers at all.

352.8.2007 18:35

f*** dat! this is just hot air nothings gonna happen. Complete and utter BULL-SHIT!

362.8.2007 20:31

Originally posted by zegame:
f*** dat! this is just hot air nothings gonna happen. Complete and utter BULL-SHIT!
yep, this is why how many MAJOR online modchip sellers are now out of stock on all their chips?

372.8.2007 20:37

Originally posted by zegame:
f*** dat! this is just hot air nothings gonna happen. Complete and utter BULL-SHIT!
Very intelligent arn't you.....wait I lied. Your opinion is the utter BULL-SH!T around here, you obviously are clueless. Go to teammodder's website.....down by coincidence?? Didnt think so.

Now go to the psp forum with all the other kiddies.


382.8.2007 20:50

Everyone... if u have a ps3... the new blu ray disks dont scratch easy. i swear. all my games... noooo scratches at all. i have my nephew grabbing my games hella ugly with his finger nails and stuff. and not one little scratch... now about making back up games... what the hell. ur waisting time and money. just buy the game and play the hell out of it. thats why u bought it for. just like dvd movies. take good care of them... really. im happy they are doing this. because it pisses me off that i pay 60 bucks for a damn game and like a million people are burning them for free.... thats gay.

392.8.2007 20:53

apparently you sir, are of the vast majority of people who think modchips are for pirates. you can also play games that you LEGALLY owned and backed up. dont think that your better than anyone else and dont go around saying that everyone else does bad things because they have modded consoles. please.

402.8.2007 20:57

Originally posted by bzkilla:
Everyone... if u have a ps3... the new blu ray disks dont scratch easy. i swear. all my games... noooo scratches at all. i have my nephew grabbing my games hella ugly with his finger nails and stuff. and not one little scratch... now about making back up games... what the hell. ur waisting time and money. just buy the game and play the hell out of it. thats why u bought it for. just like dvd movies. take good care of them... really. im happy they are doing this. because it pisses me off that i pay 60 bucks for a damn game and like a million people are burning them for free.... thats gay.
ya.......and every other word is dripping with ignorance and immaturity >>

Do try to understand WTF is going on before you open your mouth.

Oh and BR discs scratch like any other what a fcking shock!

413.8.2007 0:30

Well, crap, modchip sites are either shutting down, removing modchips from stock, or shipping only within Canada... *bleep* you, US government.

Looks like I'm going to have have to stay in Canada for a month awaiting a modchip delivery to the motel... That or move. :P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Aug 2007 @ 12:53

423.8.2007 3:19

The war on terror goes on,corporate greed..What happened to revolution.

433.8.2007 7:03

if the people making the systems were smart, they'd make their own modchips and sell them specifically for making backups. you'd have to put in the real game then the backup.

443.8.2007 7:28
TheReturn
Inactive

Quote:

bzkilla (Junior Member) 3 August 2007 0:50
_
Everyone... if u have a ps3... the new blu ray disks dont scratch easy. i swear. all my games... noooo scratches at all. i have my nephew grabbing my games hella ugly with his finger nails and stuff. and not one little scratch... now about making back up games... what the hell. ur waisting time and money. just buy the game and play the hell out of it. thats why u bought it for. just like dvd movies. take good care of them... really. im happy they are doing this. because it pisses me off that i pay 60 bucks for a damn game and like a million people are burning them for free.... thats gay.


You are really suck. Just tell us that you dont know how to mod, dont know how to use the technologies, dont know how the consoles work, dont know how to use computer......

You need brain to mod the consoles and to backup games.


Don't get pissed off. Dont complain. Just enyjoy what you're doing right now. Paying $60 per game and play the hell out of it.

453.8.2007 7:43
vinny13
Inactive

Who ever said that Blackcats should be taken down, you are just a horrible, horrible person. Why? That place is like my home lol

Sweet IRC Chat too.

463.8.2007 7:46

Originally posted by vinny13:
Who ever said that Blackcats should be taken down, you are just a horrible, horrible person. Why? That place is like my home lol

Sweet IRC Chat too.
because, as nice as it may be for people who own the originals for games they download, its still illegal to upload anything that is bypassing copyright protection.

473.8.2007 7:48
vinny13
Inactive

Quote:
because, as nice as it may be for people who own the originals for games they download, its still illegal to upload anything that is bypassing copyright protection.
Wouldn't you have to do that anyways to copy it and then burn?

483.8.2007 7:59

Originally posted by vinny13:
Who ever said that Blackcats should be taken down, you are just a horrible, horrible person. Why? That place is like my home lol

Sweet IRC Chat too.
Blackcats and other torrent sites are the ones that should be taken down or targeted. People should be able to do what they want to their hardware though. But MS and the like know that you take down one site, and 5 more pop up. If I had an XBOX 360, I wouldn't even be buying games from retailers anyway. I would be buying them used off Amazon or Ebay. I will never pay $60 for a game. I would rather wait until it's sold used for half that price.

Modders are not theifs or criminals. They perform a legitimate service and have such an incredible knowledge of the consoles. At least, the ones whom I've come in contact with. Like someone said earlier, MS and company should find a way to incorporate modding into their business model. Work with the modders.

I love the mod-scene. It gives me a way to really customize my consoles. Something more than a piece of crap faceplate and gay stickers. I hope this goes to trial, and that someone steps up to fight this injustice. Save the raids for the home methlabs and crack dens. Put more money into Education and Social Services - combat domestic abuse. Not some guy who likes to tinker with game consoles.

And whoever said that backing up games is not necessary - that's beyond the point. The point is a person should be able to have the option of backing up a game if he or she so chooses.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Aug 2007 @ 8:19

493.8.2007 8:09

grr... i want a wii modchip because i wanna play us imports..

no other reason.

503.8.2007 8:25

Quote:
Quote:
because, as nice as it may be for people who own the originals for games they download, its still illegal to upload anything that is bypassing copyright protection.
Wouldn't you have to do that anyways to copy it and then burn?
no, you dont have to upload it once you do it to your originals. its not downloading games thats illegal. its uploading them. at least thats how it is in the US.

513.8.2007 8:58

To all you smart ass's that think this is some game or isnt real...here is Joe Schmoe Nobody getting raider by the fbi, taken from xbox-scene:

Quote:
he following is a firsthand account, written in his own words of the last 24 or so hours in the life of FallInc.

FallsInc - When ICE hit me, they had a warrant for my grandma's house where I had all my packages sent. They had a picture of the house, and a description of it, meaning they were ready to come find me. When they were there, they didn't find much, since I hadn't had my computer and most modding stuff there for a while, but I continued to have the orders sent there for security of the packages. They went in the house and woke everyone up and watched them get dressed and started going though everything that was in my old room, and the stuff I had in the garage. They took anything that was related to gaming. They opened all the mail I had waiting for me there (which included someone's Xbox and $150 for a mod and 400gb), and took all the consoles and all console parts that I had stored there they even took my original xbox1 games, that were in retail cases. They took my 360, power brick and video cable, while its modded with xtreme 5.1b, it has never had 1 single burned game booted on it. They also felt it necessary to take all my old Xbox parts, mostly dead, my controllers for the 360 and Wii (?) and packed it in a box, and left.

They got my phone number from my grandma and they called me, but I was sleeping, just like everyone else in Ohio. They eventually figured out where I was, and came to find me at my girlfriends' house. They asked me about modding and what I did, and how I did it. They showed me the list of modchips that they collected, and asked me if I ever imported modchips from Canada. I told them I did, but I didn't know it was a Canadian site until after I made the order. They asked me how much money I made, and how many mods I've done, and how many chips I still had, and where they were and where my computers were.

I wasn't forced to turn over my stuff since they didn't have a warrant for where it all was, but they told me that if I volunteered it, it would look better when the case is reviewed. They also said that I would have a better chance of getting it back (at first, they promised that I would get it back in 10 days, but once we got to the location, that was changed to "better chance" and "looks better in the eyes of XX". I did the only thing I felt I could do, I let them take what they wanted. We went to where I had my workshop area. They took my laptop, and desktop, and the soldering iron (which was one of their main things to find for some reason). All the chips and relative parts were taken on the recommendation of the computer forensics guy who was to be doing the analysis on my things.

In their defense, the ICE people who came to my girlfriends house were nice people, and they tried to help me make the right decision. I knew they were just doing their job, but I have been out of work since early may, and modding is the only thing that was keeping me above water with the bills. Now I can't mod, and I can't even sell anything off to pay for bills either since it has all been confiscated due to a ludicrous interpretation of the DCMA. Now it's all said and done, and I just have to wait for them to decide what I did wrong, but while I'm waiting, I have NOTHING of any worth anymore, other than a computer monitor, and my car. Because of what happened I'm not allowed to see my girlfriend and our 4 month old daughter, and last night, I slept in my car and my girlfriend sent me a text message telling me it felt like someone was taking me away from her. They took my life away. I would like to formally thank Microsoft and Nintendo for cracking down on the little guy with a soldering iron in his garage, rather than going after the people that are responsible for the bootlegs being available.

HSD - Xbox-Scene and it's affiliate sites do not condone or endorse piracy, however we do strive to discuss, educate, and explore methods of modifying and operating game consoles in ways not originally intended or envisioned by the manufacturers. We whole heartedly believe in the right to backup your investment. This act in and of itself isn't legal in many jurisdictions. Running a "modchip" store, site or service in many jurisdictions isn't legal. XS advises that anyone, regardless of country you are in take the time to educate yourselves on what is legal, and not legal in your jurisdiction. FallsInc wasn't some large modchip site or service. He was an individual making a few coins on the side. While his story won't be the last we'll hear about the raids, we do encourage everyone reading, especially those in the US to take the time and the measures necessary to ensure that you won't be in the next batch of raids.

This isn't JUST a problem for the United States. Europe isn't exempt from the broad strokes of the bloated DCMA legislation. Europe in 2001 passed the EU copyright Directive which has many similarities to the DCMA. There are many good resources on the net about the DCMA and the EUCD. Wikipedia is a good start Digital Millennium Copyright Act.



523.8.2007 12:56

Quote:
damn.....
modchips are going to be rare...
Plus high costs.
Maybe, but I doubt that I think that if it seriously hits the fan it will just stimulate people to make their own chip.

Please notice I said "chip" and not software.

I remember coming uppon a site that helped you make your own chip and then you'd just download the software on to it (flash the chip) and voila!

Plus the parts cost about 4 bucks or something like that. You can see where this could go if things take a spill for the worse.

533.8.2007 13:36
ChaosEnvy
Inactive

the gouverment is full of shit their a bunch of lazy bastards why should they be worying about this when theirs hundreds of other thing munch more importnat to work on

543.8.2007 15:52
mrmcman
Inactive

Nice job George. way to crack down on petty homebrewers when many New York murders become cold cases. Really good prioritizing.
Nothing happened in Canada, that I am aware about. I'm pretty sure if they were doing something in Canada, I'd know. I've got so many files and stuff, but no modchips, surprisingly. Just bootleg, which I may delete now, don't want this to be me...back to just homebrew.


NOT!

553.8.2007 16:55

this is a god damn shame... but it was bound to happen sooner or later...

563.8.2007 17:26

OK so assume that the company who had your console modded was raided and they found your name on a list. What can they do? Could they come and arrest you?

573.8.2007 17:30
mrmcman
Inactive

Not arrest you, take away all of your things. I don't think having a modded console is illegal, but the process of having it modded is, so they can only confiscate your things that give you contact to the modification world.
You can get arrested if you have a bootlegged copy of a game though.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Aug 2007 @ 17:31

583.8.2007 18:06
jaems12
Inactive

hey guys I just ordered a Wiikey earlier this week and I live in the US. I'm new to the modding scene I just need to play some imports and backups.
Do you guys think its possible for em to bust me though?

593.8.2007 19:43
rallyprox
Inactive

Anyone else think bzkilla is a representative for Sony?

Quote:
bzkilla (Junior Member) 3 August 2007 0:50 _
Everyone... if u have a ps3... the new blu ray disks dont scratch easy. i swear. all my games... noooo scratches at all. i have my nephew grabbing my games hella ugly with his finger nails and stuff. and not one little scratch... now about making back up games... what the hell. ur waisting time and money. just buy the game and play the hell out of it. thats why u bought it for. just like dvd movies. take good care of them... really. im happy they are doing this. because it pisses me off that i pay 60 bucks for a damn game and like a million people are burning them for free.... thats gay.

603.8.2007 19:44

Question, let's say they find my name on a list. So they can take my modded xbox. But now what if I have games I don't own backed up on the modded xbox's hard drive? Can they arrest me for that?

613.8.2007 19:46

trust me, they arent going to go after you personally, they want to stop the chip makers not the people with chips. they are much too busy to worry about trying to arrest you. (no offense)

623.8.2007 20:41

....now that the chip makers/ distributors/ installers were taken care of by the gov. is that the end of it for now, or do you think that they (the fed's) are checking out what those people did and going going after...lets say...people whom the installer preformed a service for

also...what are the consequences for all of those people that got caught?? is it just a simple confiscation or are they further punished?

633.8.2007 20:43

That isnt entirely correct. I have yet to see any announcement or press release of going after chip makers, ICE is only targeting modders, sites/companies importing chips, installing them, etc. If the fed's really wanted to end this, they would target release groups, chip makers as you suggested, and file sharing. I gurantee the dev's/console makers could do themselves a giant favor and reduce the price of their goods, no telling how much this would deter someone who was hellbent on illegaly copying games but im sure it would positively increase sales.....just even a little.




643.8.2007 22:12

soo basically only the people that sell get their stuff onfiscated and then put in prison or pay a fine or something ??

and since u mentioned file sharing...what do they do to the downloaders...or is it only to uploaders?

653.8.2007 22:33

You need to do some basic research. File sharing is illegal regardless, if you download any copyrighted.....game/music/movie/app and get caught you are in trouble. No point singling out the gaming portion of the file sharing community, if you get caught you are in trouble...regardless of the media type. And no, doesnt matter if you are downloading or uploading....either way it is a no no. Best advice, DONT DO IT! Uploading seems it would be considered the worst though since that person made it available initially....dont take that to mean downloading is ok by any means though lol.



663.8.2007 22:36

ooo ok...ive been trying to figure that simple thing out for a longgggg time now and i always get some twisted 2 sided answer which doesnt make sense or goes against something else i'd heard...thanks for a simple straightforward answer

674.8.2007 2:42

SUCKS

684.8.2007 4:11

Yes the naughty terrorist mod chip makers..

I find it funny microsoft supported this.... however as far as im aware to 360 mod is all software.

And i cant see microsoft helping to take down sony mod chippers and suppliers.

So how come it was reported as mod chip when there is no chip involded in a 360 mod ?

694.8.2007 17:10

Originally posted by plazma247:
Yes the naughty terrorist mod chip makers..

I find it funny microsoft supported this.... however as far as im aware to 360 mod is all software.

And i cant see microsoft helping to take down sony mod chippers and suppliers.

So how come it was reported as mod chip when there is no chip involded in a 360 mod ?
What on earth are you talking about..? Ever heard of Xeno360?

704.8.2007 17:13

Quote:
Originally posted by plazma247:
Yes the naughty terrorist mod chip makers..

I find it funny microsoft supported this.... however as far as im aware to 360 mod is all software.

And i cant see microsoft helping to take down sony mod chippers and suppliers.

So how come it was reported as mod chip when there is no chip involded in a 360 mod ?
What on earth are you talking about..? Ever heard of Xeno360?
Actually no, but ... i stand corrected.

714.8.2007 19:27

You have to look at the situation this way: Like it or not, modchip are used for illegally playing games you don’t own. They can use for playing backup or homebrew but ARE used for playing games you don’t own. If a modchip company was able to make a chip that would only play homebrew and original imports, and would have some fullproof way of making sure you own the original copy of a backup (like having to put in the original in one time to be scanned by the chip of verify ownership) that chip would not be as much of a threat to M$ or Sony. But it wouldn’t sell as well as one that allows anyone to do anything they want. The people that want to play games they don’t own, like it or not, are a big consumer base to modchip companies.

And plazma247, M$ and Sony have a common enemy with modchip makers. If they make one for Playstation, one day they’ll make one for X-Box. They work together as far as this goes because they both be targets in the long run. Nintendo too.

And it will only get worse. If people start making chips, they just target the individual. Look what the do with Sudafed. People who buy Sudafed use it to make meth, which is a big problem so how did they try to solve it? You have to sign your name & SSN to a sheet every time you buy the nasal decongestant. They could do the same, is it really that unbelievable? Radio Shack already asks for your information when you buy batteries, they could just send the info off to M$, Sony or the FBI when you buy blank chips.

And by the time Halo 5 comes out: “What that? All I have to do is sign a piece of paper waiving all my constitutional privacy rights and have M$ shove a tracking chip up my ass to make sure I’m following all the rules or I can’t play. Let me bend over. Do you have a pen?”

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Aug 2007 @ 19:30

724.8.2007 19:40

Dude i had already conceeded defeat on that one, but i think your wrong mod chip providers normally have mass supplies coming in from countries that dont care what they are used for, which is why they are so hard to shut down.

734.8.2007 22:45

Originally posted by plazma247:
which is why they are so hard to shut down.
I don't think it's possible to do so. :P

744.8.2007 23:45

zedro
hopfuly by then they will allow some home brewing and soft moding but in a controled closed enviroment,look at steam and its statistical data gathering MS could implement something like it to watch over data and what not and then ban any console from online if enough complaints/odd data or whatever,I mean even if its 5 a month or 50 a year I would pay to be able to mod games a bit (mostly use cheat devices or trainers to rebalance games back to fun) sure it will never happen because fascist capitalism demands twice as much money for less the innovation.

As opposed to normal capitalism which just prevents the games from being copied and sold but lets the market deal with itself when it comes to 3rd party devices and stuff...like modchips.

755.8.2007 10:58

Then it just goes to who decides what's ok and what's not. Open modding will work until someone wants to do something that M$ says no to. Opening the door to emulation and homebrew games could, maybe, in some way hurt the bottom line in the future. The way I see it, monitored & controlled homebrew/modding defeats the purpose.

And Steam is just the begging of the end of privacy. Steam is about forced monitoring. What if they want to force you to watch commercials in between levels sometime in the future? Or have Steam randomly scan your computer for programs, files or websites that MAY be used for piracy. Or maybe the full price of a game only gets you six months of play before have to fork over more money. Requiring registration (information that they can sell to any number of companies) and having an internet connection for playing a single play game is only for them to get their meat hooks in you slow and steady so the can really screw you later on. Same goes for M$ and Sony online system. Once the systems in place, they can change it to whatever they want and in the end they can force you to do pretty much anything they want. And if you don’t like it, you won’t be allowed to play anything on their systems.

765.8.2007 11:31

Originally posted by zedro:
Then it just goes to who decides what's ok and what's not. Open modding will work until someone wants to do something that M$ says no to. Opening the door to emulation and homebrew games could, maybe, in some way hurt the bottom line in the future. The way I see it, monitored & controlled homebrew/modding defeats the purpose.

And Steam is just the begging of the end of privacy. Steam is about forced monitoring. What if they want to force you to watch commercials in between levels sometime in the future? Or have Steam randomly scan your computer for programs, files or websites that MAY be used for piracy. Or maybe the full price of a game only gets you six months of play before have to fork over more money. Requiring registration (information that they can sell to any number of companies) and having an internet connection for playing a single play game is only for them to get their meat hooks in you slow and steady so the can really screw you later on. Same goes for M$ and Sony online system. Once the systems in place, they can change it to whatever they want and in the end they can force you to do pretty much anything they want. And if you don’t like it, you won’t be allowed to play anything on their systems.
Ya I hate steam with every other fiber of my being because it prevents you from fully owning a game,however to using a system like it to enable home brews/cheats on a console is not a bad idea,I would put up with it if they let me cheat in SP games and play backups...I tend to not get a game I cant cheat on anyway LOL.

775.8.2007 12:41

Agreed if its a single player game zippy, however on the online games ... one of the sad fact remains that the guys who normally do the best in what ever game normally do so by running some sort of a mod.

Dont get me wrong or flame me this is not always the case but its sooo common place.

However i think mods are a good things, mod trainers especially apart from being lots of fun they teach you how to play the game more effectivly without them.

785.8.2007 12:55

Originally posted by plazma247:
Agreed if its a single player game zippy, however on the online games ... one of the sad fact remains that the guys who normally do the best in what ever game normally do so by running some sort of a mod.

Dont get me wrong or flame me this is not always the case but its sooo common place.

However i think mods are a good things, mod trainers especially apart from being lots of fun they teach you how to play the game more effectivly without them.
thats why you have a DRM style system in place to protect online and statical gathering to find and prevent abuse.

I think console makers need to have the cheat device makers a bit closer to them so they can work together to make cheating profitable but at the same time protect online.

795.8.2007 12:59

Haowwwdy Zipps :> long time no c.... anyway i agree something like punk buster would be idea... however dont get me wrong that been by-passed at times in the past but has always been upgraded.

Microsoft did try locking modded consoles from xbox live (home) a while back but then someone released a patch for that as well, hehe.

805.8.2007 14:04

Originally posted by plazma247:
Haowwwdy Zipps :> long time no c.... anyway i agree something like punk buster would be idea... however dont get me wrong that been by-passed at times in the past but has always been upgraded.

Microsoft did try locking modded consoles from xbox live (home) a while back but then someone released a patch for that as well, hehe.
Well if tis somethign you buy with a one time fee for your live account then MS would watch over it more and ban the accounts as needed,no matter what they do things are goign to get hacked but offering the people a choice with a small fee they then can watch over it more closely,big brother is not bad when you know where he is ^^

again I prefer a middle ground hell prehaps MS should make a kit sale it for 50 and people can have their home brew and cheats of coarse it would disable online, of coarse anythign is almost better than "zomg call of the black boots".

I still think MS should take the lead with its own cheat system, alas its all wishful thinking...

815.8.2007 14:57

I hope you werent pointing at me :-p

825.8.2007 15:27

Originally posted by plazma247:
I hope you werent pointing at me :-p
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P

835.8.2007 16:38

Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P
That's wishfull thinking, my friend. ;)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Aug 2007 @ 16:39

845.8.2007 17:05

Quote:
Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P
That's wishfull thinking, my friend. ;)
yes yes its true big brother can not keep his hands off 0-o

856.8.2007 2:31
blompod
Inactive

Here in Australia there was a court case a few years back in which the Judge ruled in favor of mod-chips and modders. What he (the Judge) basiclly said went something along the lines....that Region Encoding (locking) was a means by which the console manufacturers (he mentioned Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo by name) and the software industry could lock-in different makets and essentially "price-fix" those markets. He said Australian consumers had "the right" to purchase and use Software from anywhere in the world. Consumer's also had the right to make leagal backups of expensive software that they had leagaly purchased. He also said that the hardware (consoles) once bought and paid for by the consumer was their property do to with as they pleased.

What's NOT legal of course is the "aqusisition" and use of software that breaches any form of copyright.

So a long stoy short - "chipping" and modding consoles is perfectly leagal in Australia as it should be in all free countries...

Regards
Mark

866.8.2007 3:16

Originally posted by blompod:
as it should be in all free countries...

Are you referring to the US? Our freedom left us when the DMCA came into effect, so I fail to see how this comment is relevant to the news article... :P

876.8.2007 3:22

I think it was mate, as it does make a good example of how 1 country, ie australia saw in favour of the modchip manufactures. Where as a country which had a console maker in its borders saw infavour of the manufactures.

I think his freedom comment was a moot point at the end mate... but never the less it wasnt a bad one.

886.8.2007 4:35
blompod
Inactive

Yeah, by "all free countries"...I wasn't singling out the US in particualr...perhaps "all free market economies" would have been better.

It has always been a sticking point for Aussies how our software (particularly games) prices are substantially higher than elsewhere especially when compared to US prices. For example FFXII retails here for $99AU (approx.$85US). I did some investigation into this discrepancy some time ago and there appears to be absoultly no reason for it other than "that's what the industry believes the market will bare here" - that's an exact quote from an Australian distributor.

My point is - that's how Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo et.al. facilitate these discrpancies is by "locking-in" various markets via region encoding. Forcing some smaller markets to essentially subsidise the larger ones. If they'd open up the market and make everything "region free" - thus lowering prices - there'd be be a lot less people bothering to mod their consoles and therefor (hopefully?) less piracy.

Another point - I'm an ardent RPG fan and the number of great Japanese RPG's (english versions) that are released only in NTSC format (Persona, Odin Sphere etc.) almost necessitates a modded console and importing. It would be ridiculous and unfair to prosecute people for this.

Sorry for waffling on...but these are very sore points with me and have been for some time....

896.8.2007 12:11

My last post was simply a witty comment, though to a large extent true, I'm not contesting what you're saying at all.

I am a bit more than upset by what's going on on this end, but the prices for you guy's is nuts, I wasn't aware they were that much higher there... Importing really isn't that much of an issue for me, but to not be able to run backups... Not good, not good at all...

906.8.2007 12:42
blompod
Inactive

That's cool nintenut - I know where you're comming from.

I've been a 'lurker' here on AD for quite a while but this issues got me riled enough to sign up and start posting. I just hate the way the industry heavyweights like to take the "high moral ground" when their own morals are seriously in question on these issues.

I believe they are largely responsible for the current situation regarding piracy with their highly questionable so called "marketing stratagies".

On prices here again - PS3 and Xbox 360 games hit the shelves here at $120AU (over $100US) and we just 'cop it sweet' - why?. I think that was one of the points the Judge in the court case I mentioned saw. He noted that pricing discrepancy also.

916.8.2007 12:58

the US and Jp get price breaks for being preferred,while other places get highjacked by 30-60% ontop of what we get in the US,even if taxes are part of that 30-60% it still dose not add up.

As always I am disgusted with corporate greed, for me its simple,profit is ok profiteering (making more than 2X profit) is bad for capitalism and the world.

927.8.2007 14:11

BULL****! This entire thing is about money, money, money! They can't stand that they're losing money. They spend 2.5 million at most for a huge hit, make 2.5 billion off of it and ***** about a couple million dollars worth of illegal copies! Corporate Communists!!!!!

937.8.2007 14:35

Originally posted by Crazykid3:
BULL****! This entire thing is about money, money, money! They can't stand that they're losing money. They spend 2.5 million at most for a huge hit, make 2.5 billion off of it and ***** about a couple million dollars worth of illegal copies! Corporate Communists!!!!!

Fascist would be more correct,Communist is give everything to the people but take away their rights.

What they are doing is stifling innovation and consuemrs rights,once they are removed from capitalism you have a stagnant climate where the current industry is protected at the cost of meaningful growth and consumer rights.

947.8.2007 16:31

I shutter to think what’s next. If they somehow got control of the “piracy” and region control and locked it completely, which at it current state is not possible, but if they could, people would be at the mercy of the companies. They price games in a way people don’t “really” feel there getting ripped off. They say prices they charge now are high because of piracy (And I think they classify bypassing region control as piracy or else they wouldn’t lock it). But if they got rid of it completely, do you really think the price would go down? If anything, it would go up because no one would be able to get it any where else.

959.8.2007 8:57

Well what can one say,its all bad
Sites are dropping like flies
Teammodders is down (a site of which i was there at the beginning),team Xecuter is no longer supplying,and now i here norcalmods is closed
thats probaly the tip of the iceberg

Having said that,i have never copied anything in my life,so at least i'm safe here in the u.k (for now)




join me,and other members here,on the "unofficial" afterdawn live chat channel ->
http://www.adbuddies.org/

969.8.2007 12:42

but to be honest this isnt going to stop this at all, when companies announce that their console cannot be chipped and that is when hackers step in and prove them wrong. the thing is locking the regions have created this problem in that since im living in the uk it is hard to get hold of games like for example chrono trigger on the ps1 just because they decided they wont release it over here and the only solution is to import and make sure the console is able to play it really. to play games which other countries cant get hold of but being told that the game is good is annoying to players all across the world since they wont have the experience of the game. i agree with modding in that case just to make your console multi regional.

9710.8.2007 0:13

I agree that consoles/games should be region free,but that,in my opinion is not the reason why most user's mod there consoles
The main reason,plain and simple,is so they can boot copied games
Theres no getting away from that fact,no matter what anybody says.
Yes,some say they want to preserve there original,and my dads the pope,....but lets get real....

We all knew this would come one day,and we hope it will blow over,because losing teammodders was a blow to me and a lot of other members there who have been there from the beginning,even before the TM site
People have just got to hold tight,and remember one thing

Piracy will never be stopped
It may be tamed,and they may think it will be under control to a certain extent.
But it will never cease,there is just too much money involved.

Regards

Hursty

9812.8.2007 19:47

Thats bullocks that Teammodders.com got taken down, along with all the other sites. I've heard that TM was a great forum too, just never got around to registering there, though I wish I had.

9913.8.2007 6:45

Just for the record tho TM was taken offline by choice

10013.8.2007 12:36

Oh ok, so they weren't forced then.

10113.8.2007 18:05
Bremen
Inactive

i could quote someone but everyones points are good

only thing i can say is gay gay gay gay gay


i lost a M$ live account due to a modded xbox..... b/c it was on the same network as my other box (both on at the same time) oh well theres 50$ of the 2 billion they lose back

10215.8.2007 15:20

fucking feds

10315.8.2007 23:48

Let's me start with some info concerning the DMCA. U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes under section 117(2) as stated on the ESA's website ESA FAQ's on Anti-Piracy . Now with that being said aren't the manufactures’ of game console infringing upon our rights, as a consumer, to play a legal backup copy of a game, which is governed by the DMCA, by designing their console to block any copied games, which drives us to purchase a mod-chip to allow us to play our legal backups? Sounds to me like a catch-22.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Aug 2007 @ 23:50

10415.8.2007 23:51

Originally posted by jay317:
Let's me start with some info concerning the DMCA. U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes under section 117(2) as stated on the ESA's website ESA FAQ's on Anti-Piracy . Now with that being said aren't the manufactures’ of game console infringing upon our rights, as a consumer, to play a legal backup copy of a game, which is governed by the DMCA, by designing their console to block any copied games, which drives us to purchase a mod-chip to allow us to play our legal backups? Sounds to me like a catch-22.
There is no "fair use" in the corporate scheme of things ^^

10516.8.2007 1:34

Originally posted by jay317:
Let's me start with some info concerning the DMCA. U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes under section 117(2) as stated on the ESA's website ESA FAQ's on Anti-Piracy . Now with that being said aren't the manufactures’ of game console infringing upon our rights, as a consumer, to play a legal backup copy of a game, which is governed by the DMCA, by designing their console to block any copied games, which drives us to purchase a mod-chip to allow us to play our legal backups? Sounds to me like a catch-22.
It's fair use until the CEO's want a new yacht.

10616.8.2007 1:40

Originally posted by emugamer:
Originally posted by jay317:
Let's me start with some info concerning the DMCA. U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes under section 117(2) as stated on the ESA's website ESA FAQ's on Anti-Piracy . Now with that being said aren't the manufactures’ of game console infringing upon our rights, as a consumer, to play a legal backup copy of a game, which is governed by the DMCA, by designing their console to block any copied games, which drives us to purchase a mod-chip to allow us to play our legal backups? Sounds to me like a catch-22.
It's fair use until the CEO's want a new yacht.
you mean their platinum gold cocaine its the only way to explain their shenanigan's.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

10721.8.2007 18:18

THIS SUCKS i was like one or two days away from getting my console shipped to me until this bullshit happens im pretty pissed at the government but i think that ICE is starting to back off as the modchip bust is not on their front page anymore now their looking for a drug trafficker by te name of luis albeiro and i just believe it was on big BRIBE from nintendo,ms and sony to go after modders.but the dumb part is that they went after modders and not chip makers.

10822.8.2007 1:02

hehe simple math when your cooking the figures theres more moders than chip makes, which means you have a higher probablity of catching and convicting a modder.

So logic says go after the modders as the figures look better.

10925.8.2007 18:13

more modders will still rise they'll just keep a lower profile and modders wwould be useless without chips that the chip makers make like diveneo but since diveneo is in a country where modchips are legal and since diveneo is a big company and not some guy with a soldering iron they have the ability to fight back and sony can't do shit to them even though they still tried and nothing happened as of late and they are one of the biggest chip makers out there.

11025.8.2007 18:16

Originally posted by yojacks:
more modders will still rise they'll just keep a lower profile and modders wwould be useless without chips that the chip makers make like diveneo but since diveneo is in a country where modchips are legal and since diveneo is a big company and not some guy with a soldering iron they have the ability to fight back and sony can't do shit to them even though they still tried and nothing happened as of late and they are one of the biggest chip makers out there.

Link sang fought back alright,sorry if sony sues anyone in 3 or 4 countries at the same time they are as good as dead 0-o

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

11125.8.2007 19:03

the only thing i think that shouldn't be hacked at the moment is the ps3.if the ps3 gets hacked in a way where backupgames can be played that'll be a real big blow to sony as there a;ready having trouble getting developers to make games for them and if people can acquire those ga,es for free alot of game will go multi-platform or not for the ps3 at all.the ps2 is basically old new and they shouldn't be worriedanymore about modchips for the ps2 it's been fully hacked and there is no stopping it now especially now that the freevast team at www.freevast.biz is making a free memory card exploit that'll work like vast and will be basically a free modchip. man i can't see how that turns out.

11225.8.2007 19:12

Originally posted by yojacks:
the only thing i think that shouldn't be hacked at the moment is the ps3.if the ps3 gets hacked in a way where backupgames can be played that'll be a real big blow to sony as there a;ready having trouble getting developers to make games for them and if people can acquire those ga,es for free alot of game will go multi-platform or not for the ps3 at all.the ps2 is basically old new and they shouldn't be worriedanymore about modchips for the ps2 it's been fully hacked and there is no stopping it now especially now that the freevast team at www.freevast.biz is making a free memory card exploit that'll work like vast and will be basically a free modchip. man i can't see how that turns out.
It wont matter public presepction is more important,the PC is the great evil its the most easiest thing to pirate (BS 360 is easier,if I had a 360 ,I could run a copy of Bioshock from day 1,the PC version will take a few more days to get hacked) the ps3 is a beast (codeing,price) and in general is selling poorly,they actually need pirtiing more in order to push more merchandise.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

11326.8.2007 6:27

that is true though if a hack did come out to allow backup games more people would buy due to that that's maybe one of the reasons the ps2 is selling like it is now.but wat makes it so hard to hack a ps3

11427.9.2007 12:15
Oxadillia
Inactive

In my opinion, how exactly could they know how much they loose, I mean, firstly, who do they get these facts from (they would have to ask most of the people with modded consoles, which alone is close to impossible) and then they would have to differentiate between the probably small community that do use it for pirating, and the others who use it for homebrew, or backups of the original game. They probably took a fact then made an "estimate" that ended up blown out of proportion, mainly to add effect to the ludicrous comments that they have said.

11519.12.2007 20:29

software piracy and money laundering."

Um how the hell do you launder money selling modchips???

11620.12.2007 0:42

Oxadillia/XdjxedxdX

It dose not matter what the truth is, they can make it illeagle just because they have the power to try to do it.

11724.3.2010 20:25

My fight with homeland security
On 1/6/10 Homeland security knocked down my house and took all my computers and DVD,
They cuffed me and removed all my stuff after they had all my stuff they told me that they would be in contact with me. They did not arrest me the charges are copyright infringement. I have now started to use programs called trucrypt to hide all my data. I suggest anyone who has backups make a container and put your game in there or make a hidden volume this could have save me a lot of trouble. I’m going to court on May 13. I did have the original games but when they server warrant like this if you any file or DVD they will screw you. This is the new USA that we live in remember song anything on your computer is under search can be used against you in a court of law I will be doing updates to let you know also the warrant is attached to this take a look at it covers anything in you house real scary shit what homeland security can do to us in the USA god help us.
Please use the program it could save your ass it is free and open source http://www.truecrypt.org/

11825.3.2010 6:54

Originally posted by BigDEEZZY:
My fight with homeland security
On 1/6/10 Homeland security knocked down my house and took all my computers and DVD,
They cuffed me and removed all my stuff after they had all my stuff they told me that they would be in contact with me. They did not arrest me the charges are copyright infringement. I have now started to use programs called trucrypt to hide all my data. I suggest anyone who has backups make a container and put your game in there or make a hidden volume this could have save me a lot of trouble. I’m going to court on May 13. I did have the original games but when they server warrant like this if you any file or DVD they will screw you. This is the new USA that we live in remember song anything on your computer is under search can be used against you in a court of law I will be doing updates to let you know also the warrant is attached to this take a look at it covers anything in you house real scary shit what homeland security can do to us in the USA god help us.
Please use the program it could save your ass it is free and open source http://www.truecrypt.org/

Hey man really sorry to hear about your plight :( does make me glad to be in the UK for a change although im sure our 51'st state wont be far behind in employing the same game plan.

Out of intrests what started the investigation and lead upto the raid..?

Using crypt programs is all well and good, however i heard if you do use it and refuse to give them the access password they will do you for that, although im sure it carries a leser sentance. Im not sure if this is the same in the us but i heard it was here in the UK it applies.

You may also want to have a look out there on the internet for DECAF , this will run on your drive and if it detects the police forensic tools will trash data or what ever.

Its a sad old world we live in when the price of a life now appears less than that of a copyrighted material, it does beg the question have we really come any further than the days of people having hands cut off or put to death for stealing a loaf of bread.... you make up your own mind.

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