Europe gets price drop on Xbox 360 HD DVD add on

14.9.2007 09:58

BIGnewb

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that's still a rip off.the playstation 3 has blu-ray already included in it so when you buy an add-on for the 360,the ps3 is actually cheaper.correct if im wrong but does microsoft even use hd-dvd for their games?i heard they're dual layer dvds.if that's true that's pretty lame.but if that's wrong,well then stick to the first thing i said.

24.9.2007 10:22

Pride1

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Originally posted by BIGnewb:
that's still a rip off.the playstation 3 has blu-ray already included in it so when you buy an add-on for the 360,the ps3 is actually cheaper.correct if im wrong but does microsoft even use hd-dvd for their games?i heard they're dual layer dvds.if that's true that's pretty lame.but if that's wrong,well then stick to the first thing i said.

1. Having the HD DVD player as an OPTIONAL piece is a great idea, we don't all have a Hi def tv so why buy something we are not even going to use
2. Wow the PS3 has a built in Blu Ray Player, well whats the point on having ALOT more storage space for a game if the game sucks
3. IMHO M$ has kept the DL DVDs because they've seen the light, next gen gameplay doesn't rely on Storage capabilities but on Online playability

thats my opinion anyways

BTW i'm NOT a M$ fan boy

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Sep 2007 @ 10:29

34.9.2007 10:30

diabolic

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correct if im wrong but does microsoft even use hd-dvd for their games?i heard they're dual layer dvds.

Yes it does and I'm glad they do, they are cheap and easy to backup.

44.9.2007 11:38

hughjars

Inactive

Originally posted by diabolic:
Yes it does and I'm glad they do, they are cheap and easy to backup.

- No they don't.

They use DVD5/9 for games and HD DVD is purely used for movies.

Why one earth would they start putting games on HD DVD and restrict their market to a minority of XBox 360 owners?

The truth is that there is no need to use anything beyond DVD9 for games, not now consoles are getting decent sized HDDs built-in and on-line gaming is taking off properly.

54.9.2007 11:38

ChromeMud

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There are way too many 50gig games that are superior to 360 games.
Just check out the charts,you'll see.....oh!
Well it has CELL so all is well in the universe.

/gets coat & runs!

64.9.2007 12:11

camaro17

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microsoft doesnt use hd dvd games and if they did why the hell would there be one that you can install the 360's would already have a hd dvd reader for the games

74.9.2007 13:55

NexGen76

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Originally posted by pride1:
1. Having the HD DVD player as an OPTIONAL piece is a great idea, we don't all have a Hi def tv so why buy something we are not even going to use.

1.All games on 360 & PS3 are in High-def...lol so to fully enjoy games on either system it would be best to get a HD set, not just for movies but for gaming also.

Originally posted by ChromeMud:
There are way too many 50gig games that are superior to 360 games.
Just check out the charts,you'll see.....oh!
Well it has CELL so all is well in the universe.

Because a game takes up 50gigs don't mean that its going to be a long game or better game.A lot of people got the concept of more storage wrong.That space is there to make fully polished games far as sound & visual with less CG & more real time in games.There is a reason that G.O.W was short because DVD-9 limited some of the things that Epic Mark Rein stated at the E-3 07 this years thats why the PC version going to be better & also has the main Boss stage on the PC version i really think the 360 fans got hosed.Right now the reason games not looking good on the PS3 is the Dev's are still learning how to code on the PS3 its going to take time,But as seen Killzone 2 & MGS4 is going to be like no game on either system.

Sony's Phil Harrison said in an interview on Wednesday that the quality of third-party PS3 titles will likely improve due to the sharing of first-party technologies with outside publishers.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=130688

Originally posted by hughjars:
The truth is that there is no need to use anything beyond DVD9 for games, not now consoles are getting decent sized HDDs built-in and on-line gaming is taking off properly.

Not even being anywhere close to the truth if so why are Microsoft hiding from the user the some games into the future going to require use of the HD...Because games on the 360 are being limited on space.

Microsoft announced on Monday that it would soon allow MMO developers to require hard drive space when playing games on Xbox 360 despite the console maker's previous denial of such claims.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=129068

Epic vice president applauds extra "legroom" on PS3's discs

During a session at the Edinburgh Interactive Festival, Mark Rein, vice president of Epic Games, has expressed his appreciation for the extra storage space on Blu-ray discs over the standard DVD format.

Speaking on the forthcoming Unreal Tournament 3 title, which will be released on the PlayStation 3 before the Xbox 360, he warned that "we may have fewer maps on the 360 version…Blu-Ray has definitely given us a lot of legroom.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27675

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Sep 2007 @ 1:58

84.9.2007 14:28

hughjars

Inactive

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Because a game takes up 50gigs don't mean that its going to be a long game or better game.

- True.

But quit it with the kidding here, there arent going to be any 50gb games.
This is about single layer 25gb Blu-ray discs.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
A lot of people got the concept of more storage wrong.That space is there to make fully polished games far as sound & visual with less CG & more real time in games.

- Not true.

We already know from statements by Sony execs that Blu-ray was put into the PS3 for Blu-ray's sake, not the PS3's.

We can clearly see how this has wrecked the PS3 from a gaming position.

Sure they (might) have a handful of Sony 'in-house' exclusives as consolation to look forward to (in amongst the rushed in-house dross) as they move to try and give PS3 owners something they can claim as their own but we can already see that as far as the 3rd party developers go it's XBox 360 & Wii all the way.
Too many XBox 360 & Wii owners & nothing like enough Ps3s sold.
No point crying about it that's just the cold hard economic facts.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
There is a reason that G.O.W was short because DVD-9 limited some of the things that Epic Mark Rein stated at the E-3 07 this years thats why the PC version going to be better & also has the main Boss stage on the PC version i really think the 360 fans got hosed.

- Sure you do.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Right now the reason games not looking good on the PS3 is the Dev's are still learning how to code on the PS3 its going to take time,But as seen Killzone 2 & MGS4 is going to be like no game on either system.

- It's always 'jam tomorrow' with PS3 (and Blu-ray for that matter too).
Wake up, without the sales improving massively (not the brief spurt and fall we just saw) it's not going to happen.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Sony's Phil Harrison said in an interview on Wednesday that the quality of third-party PS3 titles will likely improve due to the sharing of first-party technologies with outside publishers.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=130688

- "likely improve".....wow what a lame endorsement.
Not quite a long & impressive list of imminent triple A games heading PS3's way tho, is it?

The facts are that game publishers are only interested in how much they can sell and the sad truth for PS3 fans is that it trails in a distinct 3rd place in this current round of the console 'wars'.

But seriously.

Wow, hold the presses, 'Sony exec says Sony stiff is great and will get greater still'.

You'll be trying to tell us next that it's a revelation Ford execs reckon their cars are great and say so publicly too.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Not even being anywhere close to the truth if so why are Microsoft hiding from the user the some games into the future going to require use of the HD...Because games on the 360 are being limited on space.

- Nextgen if you're going to try and have a go at my stuff at least do me the courtesy of reading it properly first.

I specifically mentioned the HDD (hard disc drive) as a reason why you don't need more than DVD9's.....just like you don't with PC games either.

......and even for someone trying to take a bash I'd say it's a little hard to claim Microsoft are "hiding" the hard drive when they just brought out a new 120gb one, wouldn't you say?

Or do you reckon the 'Elite' etc is some kind of secret to anyone?

The low sales of the core model XBox 360 would tend to indicate that 'most people' are well aware that to get the most out of it you really need the HDD......and those that don't bother with it are likely casual users not so interested in such things or maybe they are mainly XBox 360 HD DVD add-on users?

Originally posted by nextgen76:
During a session at the Edinburgh Interactive Festival, Mark Rein, vice president of Epic Games, has expressed his appreciation for the extra storage space on Blu-ray discs over the standard DVD format.

Speaking on the forthcoming Unreal Tournament 3 title, which will be released on the PlayStation 3 before the Xbox 360, he warned that "we may have fewer maps on the 360 version…Blu-Ray has definitely given us a lot of legroom.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=27675

- We'll see when the stuff actually appears.....you never know, maybe he's telling the truth and you'll then have 3 games worth bothering with on the PS3. :P

But seriously, if the best you can come up with is some link to one guy claiming his company needed the extra room then I'd say that's not really much of substance.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Sep 2007 @ 2:34

94.9.2007 14:30

hughjars

Inactive

Back OT.

The real issue here is whether they are going to extend the incredibel offers that have been made in the USA.

Recently (including the copy of King Kong in the box) they were giving away 9 free HD DVDs.

If only we saw something similar here......but I've read recently that Toshiba are extending their 5 freebie HD DVD movie offer to buyers of their HD DVD players.
You never know. ;)

104.9.2007 14:33

ZippyDSM

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hughjars
Looking at the direction of PGR and a few other games MS is going to have to evole what they do with data multi discs and mandatory HD caching will have to be put in placed for the 360 to not get hand me downs games in teh coming 4 years,its still a good 20ish months off until more and more games will get larger but believe me brother its coming and MS has to advance to meet it, they should have left HDVD games as a option and put a Hdvd Elite out in 09/010 as well as bring the Hdvd player down to 90$ by then.

In any case MS can drop the core and get the 360 ready for larger games.

ChromeMud
not really its still 50/50 most of the mutli console titles run better on the 360,not all but most..
the PS3 still has abotu 20 months before it will have a steady flow of optimized games might even be 30 months,in any case the PS3 can only get better (unless they raise the price and I wont put that past them with the "its more of a vaule at 799" spew) the 360 has a hump to get over and MS has not revealed how they will climb the hill before them(droping core,mandatory HD caching,multi disc games,ect)..

NexGen76
the 360 dint have a Hdef standard till a few months(or year) ago, the 360 was a early bloomer and a bit of a organized mess when it comes to Hdef its better now but the PS3 dose have better Hdef options however it has optimization issues to get over.

Price aside the PS3 has the long run(if it can lower the price), for now its rife with optimization issues and crappy launch titles.

The 360 has a developed line up but suffers from hardware issues the newest of which is giving games the legroom they need, MS is in a pickle they made mistakes over the HD size and are ignoring the game size issue if they do not own up to up and let devs optimize as best they can for it the 360 is dead in the water.

BTW I see sony doing 2 mistakes in this 1 price 2 BWC,if the focused the launch at 400-480 for the 60GB unit they would have not only sold a lot of PS3s but BR movies along with it laying a solid foundation for them instead they had to go swim in the quickcert...

114.9.2007 14:38

hughjars

Inactive

Zippy mate if PS3 needs 20 months to come good it's all over.

People won't wait......hell you can see in the numbers they aren't waiting now nevermind for another 1.5yrs+.

In 20mths we're due the next systems appearing and they are going to be stuck trying to convince people their system is now sorted & optimised in the face of the next Xbox which will be a whole generation on.

If they wish to give up & settle for a 'Wii' approach and desert the leading edge then that's up to them & it's a perfectly reasonable strategy (as Nintendo are showing only too well) but somehow I doubt they would stomach that.

124.9.2007 14:57

ZippyDSM

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Originally posted by hughjars:
Zippy mate if PS3 needs 20 months to come good it's all over.

People won't wait......hell you can see in the numbers they aren't waiting now nevermind for another 1.5yrs+.

In 20mths we're due the next systems appearing and they are going to be stuck trying to convince people their system is now sorted & optimised in the face of the next Xbox which will be a whole generation on.

If they wish to give up & settle for a 'Wii' approach and desert the leading edge then that's up to them & it's a perfectly reasonable strategy (as Nintendo are showing only too well) but somehow I doubt they would stomach that.

Please they waited on the 360 to get better when it was the only damn thing out,because asia backs sony/nin,sony wont be going away any time soon and with a solid amount in the used market it will only take a few big titles to help them gain ground but the steady optimized games are months off and the 360 will be nearing tis end by then because of the rate games are evolving.
If the 360 was a solid world wide console it would have sold 20-30 million units ,but tis not its just a niche of console that has been trumbed by the piss...er WII... LOL

Dont get me wrong the 360 is a fair system but its showing its age and has a ton of issues wrong with it, and with MS's upgrade approach you can see Hdvd enabled 360 varints in at least 3 years,I mean much like the PS3 it has power hidden in it but the build quality sucks, they could revamp it with more ramm and CPU/GPU power and let it go untill 014.

The PS3 can be seen as a 2 generation console,mostly because of the uphill battle with price and optimizations,the frist 2-4 years will be the worst for it the final 4 a breeze when you have a solid 300-400 price and games highly optimized games.

Really I do not want to see a new console system for at least 4 or 5 years spend time on gettign the damn thing right you bastards(MS/Sony).

BTW what do you see replacing the WII? I see NIn goign with something like the 360 in trems of power and they will expand their online store to offer retail console games of the new system for digi download as well as normal store bought games, I can see them goign with a mix stream/D2D the current WII mix and live to offer everything Nintendo gaming, it should offer GC and WII support GBA and DS support you will have to buy in the form of a VC game.

I do not really see nintendo getting into media out side of gaming do you?

134.9.2007 15:02

hughjars

Inactive

Well it's all conjecture but I don't go along with the idea that Sony will keep the Ps3 '1st division' for more than 5 or 6 years.
They'll be working flat out on PS4 right now and (bearing in mind the PS3s delays) it may come sooner than some expect too.

As for the next Nintendo?
I reckon on another Wii-type idea but somewhat faster & with more RAM etc and probably HD......maybe even that rumoured HD DVD drive some had been talking about - now wouldn't that be an interesting twist in the road?
Why not?

144.9.2007 15:09

ZippyDSM

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Originally posted by hughjars:
Well it's all conjecture but I don't go along with the idea that Sony will keep the Ps3 '1st division' for more than 5 or 6 years.
They'll be working flat out on PS4 right now and (bearing in mind the PS3s delays) it may come sooner than some expect too.

As for the next Nintendo?
I reckon on another Wii-type idea but somewhat faster & with more RAM etc and probably HD......maybe even that rumoured HD DVD drive some had been talking about - now wouldn't that be an interesting twist in the road?
Why not?

Nin is froogle and would like to jab back more at sony ^_~

I dunno a PS4 is unlikely in teh next 5 years unless its as fast as the PS3 and half the price....if not then they will launch it in 012-013

would really like to see MS launch something with full Xbox support
I can see it now Xbox 2 with nearly twice the power of the 360 with a 80GB HD and HDVD drive for only 499.99
*gag*
seroiuly tho...keep it under 400 fool LOL

Tho MS would be best off delaying a new system until they make a solid replacement with full BWC out of the box....altho if a higher build quality only cost 100 more it would be worth it in the ling run...

154.9.2007 16:56

NexGen76

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Originally posted by Zippy:
hughjars
Looking at the direction of PGR and a few other games MS is going to have to evole what they do with data multi discs and mandatory HD caching will have to be put in placed for the 360 to not get hand me downs games in teh coming 4 years,its still a good 20ish months off until more and more games will get larger but believe me brother its coming and MS has to advance to meet it, they should have left HDVD games as a option and put a Hdvd Elite out in 09/010 as well as bring the Hdvd player down to 90$ by then.

Thanks Zippy for explaining that to him.Because the 360 is going to start putting Data on the HD still don't solve the dvd-9 limited issue.Right now the 360 look like a good bang for the buck but its future is very short.

Originally posted by hughjars:
- Nextgen if you're going to try and have a go at my stuff at least do me the courtesy of reading it properly first.

I specifically mentioned the HDD (hard disc drive) as a reason why you don't need more than DVD9's.....just like you don't with PC games either.

......and even for someone trying to take a bash I'd say it's a little hard to claim Microsoft are "hiding" the hard drive when they just brought out a new 120gb one, wouldn't you say?

Or do you reckon the 'Elite' etc is some kind of secret to anyone?

I'm trying to educate you on this issue because you are a long way off thinking that Elite going to solve this issue.

Originally posted by hughjars:
Zippy mate if PS3 needs 20 months to come good it's all over.

People won't wait......hell you can see in the numbers they aren't waiting now nevermind for another 1.5yrs+.

In 20mths we're due the next systems appearing and they are going to be stuck trying to convince people their system is now sorted & optimised in the face of the next Xbox which will be a whole generation on.

If they wish to give up & settle for a 'Wii' approach and desert the leading edge then that's up to them & it's a perfectly reasonable strategy (as Nintendo are showing only too well) but somehow I doubt they would stomach that.

The Wii outsold the PlayStation 3 by a factor of three to one in August, but its overwhelming lead narrowed for the second consecutive month according to Reuters.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=132308

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Sep 2007 @ 5:10

165.9.2007 05:47

hughjars

Inactive

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Thanks Zippy for explaining that to him.

- Nextgen try acting like a grown up and discussing things with the person saying them.

You ridiculous side comments just make you look like a bitchy little brat.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Because the 360 is going to start putting Data on the HD still don't solve the dvd-9 limited issue.

- Don't be absurd.
The HDD means you can use multiple DVD9s (as happens with some PC games) which means that the 'capacity issue' (in the few examples where it might genuinely exist) is meaningless.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Right now the 360 look like a good bang for the buck but its future is very short.

- You (so obviously) wish.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
I'm trying to educate you on this issue because you are a long way off thinking that Elite going to solve this issue.

- Swerve the issue all you like but on the one hand you want to make a dumb little dig as if the use of the HDD is some kind of secret move and on the other you want to spin it as being of no real use.

Both points are nothing remotely close to "educational" but are the usual predictable 'want it all ways around' bashing of a fanboy.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
The Wii outsold the PlayStation 3 by a factor of three to one in August, but its overwhelming lead narrowed for the second consecutive month according to Reuters.

http://www.gamepro.com/news.cfm?article_id=132308

- There's a world of difference between a short-lived sales spike cos of the recent 'fire sale' of the old & dead 60gb PS3 model and the situation regarding overall sales.

They can "narrow" the gap all they like, it just means they are losing by less than they were losing before......and of course the losses on each unit are just magnified every time they drop price (which may or may not be about to happen on the 80gb model.

Like I said, the facts are that the PS3 is stuck trailing the XBo 360 & Wii by a large margin.

175.9.2007 08:33

emugamer

Inactive

Quote:
that's still a rip off.the playstation 3 has blu-ray already included in it so when you buy an add-on for the 360,the ps3 is actually cheaper.

An HD addon is very smart of MS. If HD loses the war, they can cut their losses and discontinue the player. Since HD TV is not mainstream yet, customers can enjoy a 360 without having to spend extra money on a HD player.

Customer feels less risk and pressure = happy customer

Sony forces the format down your throat. If Bluray losses, customer cries over bluray collection = unhappy customer.

185.9.2007 10:51

plutonash

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Can u add a HDD to the 360 core. I just think M$ should replace defected
Cores with the premiums and gave all Core owners a voucher for a free upgrade or usb HDD. Storage problem that doesnt exist solved

195.9.2007 17:16

hughjars

Inactive

Originally posted by plutonash:
Can u add a HDD to the 360 core.

- Yes.

Either the 20gb or 120gb HDD can be fitted to teh core model.

Originally posted by plutonash:
I just think M$ should replace defected
Cores with the premiums and gave all Core owners a voucher for a free upgrade or usb HDD. Storage problem that doesnt exist solved

- Personally I think something close to this is what is going to happen.

When games needing the HDD appear my bet is that they will make the 20gb HDD very cheap (or bundle it or make it some kind of a low cost upgrade voucher deal with certain games that need the HDD for core owners) so that anyone can upgrade to having the HDD easily & without any great trauma.

With a little imagination this ought not be a big deal to the small minority of core owners.

It would also be nice if they brought in a new, say 250gb, size and cut the price of the 120gb HDD while they were at it.

All the drives (from any manufacturer/format) ought to be priced much more in line with regular PC drives, it just pi*ses people off if there is a huge discrepancy.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Sep 2007 @ 5:18

205.9.2007 18:10

ZippyDSM

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hughjars
have you seen this one?
Sony says it will take 4 years for the PS3 to be running fully :P
http://www.gamepoliticsforums.com/showthread.php?t=2966

216.9.2007 04:37

hughjars

Inactive

Oh dear.

4 years is too long in techy stuff, that's almost the whole length of a game console life-cycle (in fact including the 1 year delay it is, 5yrs seems about it).

Obviously they're in big trouble if this is true.

226.9.2007 09:32

ChromeMud

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Had to catch up on all those comments....phew!
The extra capacity of Blu-Ray is nice and the CELL chip might one day prove IBM's/Sony's strategy of competing with Intel and AMD but it might not be enough to make a difference this generation.
I believe that the programming complexity of the CELL is inefficient to get a desired result in a certain amount of time.As we all know times costs money so expecting games to leap way and above the 360 is wishful thinking.It takes way too much effort and time to even match what the 360 can do given equal resources.
This argument could also extend to the Blu-Ray format that can provide a lot more storage data but this also requires time and money to create the extra content so as you can see it's a catch22 situation all round.
Sony have created a very complex beast that is expensive to develop for whilst Nintendo and Microsoft have consoles that are both easier and quicker to develop for and thus cheaper.
It's all about business at the end of the day and I think Nintendo and Microsoft are playing with better hands than Sony this time round.
All in all,I think there's room for all three in the market but I don't see Sony changing position from third any time soon.

236.9.2007 12:09

ZippyDSM

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Originally posted by hughjars:
Oh dear.

4 years is too long in techy stuff, that's almost the whole length of a game console life-cycle (in fact including the 1 year delay it is, 5yrs seems about it).

Obviously they're in big trouble if this is true.

Well the PS3 dose have the power and disc space to run 7+ years giving them time to nutrue and build a better console for the PS4,but I dunno sony dose not seem like the nuture type 0.o

the 360 is goign to show its age in a couple years and will need to be replaced in 3-4,the WII will be fine in its niche for 4 or 5 years.

2410.9.2007 15:42

borhan9

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price drops always comming everyday.

2510.9.2007 17:33

ZippyDSM

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Originally posted by borhan9:
price drops always coming everyday.

more like every few months.

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