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Warner still not picking a side in the hi-def format war

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 12 Sep 2007 22:35 User comments (28)

Warner still not picking a side in the hi-def format war Despite reports of lucrative offers to follow Paramount's lead and get behind HD DVD exclusively, Waner Home Video president Ron Sanders says competitive sales of both formats are likely to ensure they release titles in both formats.
In an interview with This Week In Consumer Electronics, Sanders answered questions about the future of HD at Warner, saying "we’re talking to both sides and it’s crazy right now. We remain committed to both for the time being. We’ll see how the fourth quarter plays out. The consumer is still kind of divided, and we still believe that we should offer the content in both formats. Now, we will watch the marketplace very closely, and see how it plays out, but for now we are supporting both."

He called the current situation between HD DVD and Blu-ray "a Mexican standoff", and indicated that his company doesn't really care which side wins, as long as people are buying some kind of players so they can sell whatever kind of discs they play.

Unlike other companies, Warner has hedged it's bets by creating TotalHD which includes HD DVD on one side of the disc and Blu-ray on the other. According to Sanders plans for TotalHD releases are "on hold right now" because other studios haven't shown interest in it.

Source: This Week In Consumer Electronics

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28 user comments

113.9.2007 1:44

Why they`re not picking a side ? All HD DVD needs is warner on there side...and we have our WINNER finally...come on Warner !

213.9.2007 2:28
BIGnewb
Inactive

in case you didn't notice they said they don't care who wins.blu-ray still has more support from studios and stores.i say this format war is bs and i simply don't care anymore because it's causing a mix up.

313.9.2007 4:40
deadlove
Inactive

Why should warner care? They are still selling massively more films on dvd than on either of the other formats.

On the subject.. It happens I saw my first blu-rayer running on demo in a shop last week. nice panasonic widescreen 40" plasma.. didn't look any better than the standard dvd players to me.. still visible blockyness and gradients. player £699.. tv £1499 = £2200 for something that doesn't look as good as a vhs tape on my old 24" crt tv.. I detect shennagins ;-)


413.9.2007 5:10
hughjars
Inactive

Don't worry, they will soon enough.

My bet is after X-mas and into spring when we see how well the entry-level HD DVD players are selling.

......and if what Denon are saying ((that 'profile 1.1' & 'profile 2.0' discs and players may not work with all the existing 'profile 1.0' players and they are still hard at work to correct this possible flaw) is true?

It may be that it can't be done & Blu-ray never moves on from 'profile 1.0', which will lose it studios as many of them are looking forward to some of those 'advanced features' (which HD DVD has had since day 1) as an additional income stream.

See here -

Quote:
JT: The profile itself is the next step in the Blu-ray evolution. HD DVD is what I call a "baked format", meaning it's basically done. There are some copy protection things, but that's later, and they’re not going to affect performance and playback of material. For Blu-ray, on the other hand, Profile 1.1 is just the next step — there's actually a Version 2 some time next year. That's going to deal with players and the software, so it's two-sided. But back to Profile 1.1. It mandates that players must have secondary audio and video processing for picture-in-picture capabilities, be able to support external storage of some type — or internal storage, it's really an option, I believe — for downloaded Web material. Current Profile 1.0 Blu-ray players do not have to have any “connect” port. Those that do, it's really for firmware update, but that’s the only thing it's really good for. Where HD DVD, has HDI, it's an interactive version. And even that port is required to go to a movie’s web site or a dedicated space to download extra material. When our player comes out, the first thing people will notice on the front panel is that is has an SD card slot. We give you an SD card, and obviously, you can buy others. You would take that to your computer, go to the movie website on the card and download this material, toss it into the player, and then be able to access that simultaneously with the movie playback.

Q: Will that load the information to the disc's menu system?

JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you to make it a truly interactive experience. After that, it's standard Blu-ray.
But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile, they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.

Q: Really?

JT: It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and new discs.
The BD portion [of the DVD-3800BDCI] is going to be the newest and latest and greatest available, but the biggest concern for us was not to forget about SD, standard definition.
So in reality, for a lot of your readers and your customers and a lot of the people out there that check the site, this is like a DVD-3930CI with Blu-ray added. [But without DVD-Audio or SACD – Ed.


http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_...adge.aug.07.php

- Right now that's got to mean there is a huge question mark hanging over Blu-ray...... no wonder they keep delaying the introduction of 'profile 1.1' (nevermind 'profile 2.0').

513.9.2007 6:14

I like this TotalHD idea. HD on one side bluray on the other. How is this even possible? This combined with dual player format would be a unique idea. Totally expands the movie experience.

613.9.2007 7:17
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by c1c:
I like this TotalHD idea. HD on one side bluray on the other. How is this even possible?
- I'm not sure it really is.

The biggest deal would be getting around the licencing and I very much doubt either side would licence or formally approve of these discs.

I really can't see the DVD Forum giving their approval when they have no say in how the Blu-ray element is executed and vis-versa for the BDA.

713.9.2007 7:25

why would they want to chose hd dvd unless they get a paycheck like paramount(which they are already regretting after in house backlash)?

you people seem to forget that studios make their money off software not hardware, and blu ray is pulling ahead even more regardless of being to the market late and being more expensive all around. 300 the biggest HD move so far this year, sold better on bluray what 2 to 1?

now with the impeding new ps3 sku priced at $400 rumored to be this month, and the fact that china has chosen which format they want to pirate hd dvd(for the simple fact that it is easier to pirate on hd dvd than bluray, which is one of the main reasons most studios chose bluray in the first place), and blockbuster, and etc, etc.

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...

813.9.2007 7:47

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....

OOPS! Sorry hughjars. I forgot this is your space.

You can take over now.

913.9.2007 8:01

Quote:
Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....

OOPS! Sorry hughjars. I forgot this is your space.

You can take over now.
even tho i think you were being sarcastic, i will still respond cus i know hughjars would probably still say the same exact thing lol.

dominate marketshare how? the obligatory more didicated players even tho it doesnt translate to more software sales?

better as in codec maybe, which was being changed when paramount started supported better ones, that is why the hd dvd camp paid them off, they didnt want them to support it with better codecs.paramount wouldnt switch without a big check when they were selling more on blu ray. also they are only exclusive through 08? very smart of them, considering hd movie revenues wont start getting really big until most likely, and by then their contract will be over and (150?)million spent.

and i have dealt with hughjars before, he remembers...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Sep 2007 @ 8:02

1013.9.2007 9:10

The problem with Total HD is that it would be very hard to pack 2 double layers on a disc. Combo's have had some problems in the pass now add the low yield for BD and you have a recipe for failure. Also CaLiMaCk you are incorrect Warner get a cut off the hardware as while as licensing since they help make HD-DVD (this is a fact). The only reason they are in the Blu-ray camp is because Sony is subsiding the discs for them. Also what the hell is that high school musical you are talking about. Never heard if it and it doesnt seem like a system seller when most BD owners are Ps3 owners. As for Pirates the AR is all screwed in that one so that a tier 0 in my book.

1113.9.2007 9:27
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by eatsushi:
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....
- If by holidays you mean X-mas then yeah, I reckon.

.....and after what Denon has had to say about Blu-ray trying to reach final spec I'd say it's fully deserved too.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless.
- Given that HD DVD is fully operation I'd love to know what exactly you're referring to here?

If it's codecs then nope, HD DVD's VC-1 codec is so good that even Sony have used it and the rest are using to increasingly.

If it's operating software then nope again, HD DVD has a fully functional and complete spec, unlike Blu-ray.

Go see what Denon have to say about Blu-ray's incomplete spec and worry about how it will affect you and the rest of the BD owners.

It's quoted & posted above.

Some 'lagging behind'. LMAO.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
- Dream on.
Transformers is the biggest movie of the summer and it's HD DVD.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
dominate marketshare how? the obligatory more didicated players even tho it doesnt translate to more software sales?
- Er, yes it does on a movies per player basis (ie those attachment rates which means HD DVD averages out at over 4 movies per player verses Blu-ray's less than 1).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
better as in codec maybe
- .....aha, so perhaps "the software still lags behind regardless" is by your own admission nonsense then, huh?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
which was being changed when paramount started supported better ones, that is why the hd dvd camp paid them off
- Prove it (and prove it without quoting a report of a rumour).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
they didnt want them to support it with better codecs.
- Where are you getting this rubbish from?
Warner continue to use VC-1 and even Sony have used it.

see www.blu-raystats.com

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
paramount wouldnt switch without a big check when they were selling more on blu ray.
- Prove it (and prove it without reference to the Blu-ray shill Bill hunt's own rumours being reported.....cos that's where this little fairy tale originates)

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
also they are only exclusive through 08?
- Nope, go look you'll find quotes from Viacom/Paramount saying "indefinite".

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and i have dealt with hughjars before, he remembers...
- Er, no I don't.
I have absolutely no idea who you are ......and with an ego as laughably large as that I might have remembered, if only in a derisory sense.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Sep 2007 @ 9:28

1213.9.2007 9:34

Quote:
Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....

OOPS! Sorry hughjars. I forgot this is your space.

You can take over now.
I don't reallly think there going to be any dominate from the HD-DVD side because every big title HD-DVD can throw out so can Blu-Ray.

Transformers-HD-DVD total gross $311,381,546 Blu-Ray Spider-man 3 plus the box set also total gross $336,530,303.

Shrek 3-HD-DVD total gross $320,706,665 Blu-Ray Ratatouille total gross 201,994,07.

The Bourne Ultimatum total gross $210,294,605 Blu-Ray Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End total gross $308,929,593 .

Lets not forget Fox is also releasing there titles now also with BD+ now working.

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer total gross: $131,696,748

Live Free or Die Hard total gross: $133,897,281

The Simpson's Movie total gross: $180,272,179

Trust me there won't be any dominate this holiday season from either side & next year the timed exclusive deal will be over between HD-DVD & paramount.HD-DVD can hope to break even this holiday but 2 major movie's from Paramount not going to do it for them.So you can say was 150 million for a short term boost really worth it?


Originally posted by hughjars:
- Dream on.
Transformers is the biggest movie of the summer and it's HD DVD.
Your right for the summer not the year because Spider man 3 still have the highest gross this year read the top number or you need me to direct you to it.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Sep 2007 @ 9:46

1313.9.2007 11:04

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....

OOPS! Sorry hughjars. I forgot this is your space.

You can take over now.
I don't reallly think there going to be any dominate from the HD-DVD side because every big title HD-DVD can throw out so can Blu-Ray.

Transformers-HD-DVD total gross $311,381,546 Blu-Ray Spider-man 3 plus the box set also total gross $336,530,303.

Shrek 3-HD-DVD total gross $320,706,665 Blu-Ray Ratatouille total gross 201,994,07.

The Bourne Ultimatum total gross $210,294,605 Blu-Ray Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End total gross $308,929,593 .

Lets not forget Fox is also releasing there titles now also with BD+ now working.

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer total gross: $131,696,748

Live Free or Die Hard total gross: $133,897,281

The Simpson's Movie total gross: $180,272,179

Trust me there won't be any dominate this holiday season from either side & next year the timed exclusive deal will be over between HD-DVD & paramount.HD-DVD can hope to break even this holiday but 2 major movie's from Paramount not going to do it for them.So you can say was 150 million for a short term boost really worth it?


Originally posted by hughjars:
- Dream on.
Transformers is the biggest movie of the summer and it's HD DVD.
Your right for the summer not the year because Spider man 3 still have the highest gross this year read the top number or you need me to direct you to it.
Update:With New Line Cinema coming to Blu-Ray this holiday them HD-DVD first of 08 count another hit title for Blu-Ray this holiday

Hairspray total gross $114,675,912.Sorry for the double post.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Sep 2007 @ 11:05

1413.9.2007 11:06

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:

even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless. that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....

OOPS! Sorry hughjars. I forgot this is your space.

You can take over now.
I don't reallly think there going to be any dominate from the HD-DVD side because every big title HD-DVD can throw out so can Blu-Ray.

Transformers-HD-DVD total gross $311,381,546 Blu-Ray Spider-man 3 plus the box set also total gross $336,530,303.

Shrek 3-HD-DVD total gross $320,706,665 Blu-Ray Ratatouille total gross 201,994,07.

The Bourne Ultimatum total gross $210,294,605 Blu-Ray Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End total gross $308,929,593 .

Lets not forget Fox is also releasing there titles now also with BD+ now working.

Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer total gross: $131,696,748

Live Free or Die Hard total gross: $133,897,281

The Simpson's Movie total gross: $180,272,179

Trust me there won't be any dominate this holiday season from either side & next year the timed exclusive deal will be over between HD-DVD & paramount.HD-DVD can hope to break even this holiday but 2 major movie's from Paramount not going to do it for them.So you can say was 150 million for a short term boost really worth it?


Originally posted by hughjars:
- Dream on.
Transformers is the biggest movie of the summer and it's HD DVD.
Your right for the summer not the year because Spider man 3 still have the highest gross this year read the top number or you need me to direct you to it.
Update:With New Line Cinema coming to Blu-Ray this holiday then HD-DVD first of 08 count another hit title for Blu-Ray this holiday

Hairspray total gross $114,675,912.Sorry for the double post.

1513.9.2007 12:13
hughjars
Inactive

Fox?

Big deal?

We'll be seeing a fair few of Fox films on HD DVD.

They have a tie-up with 'Highlight' in Germany who are HD DVD in this.
Cue another lot of supposedly 'Blu-ray exclusive' movies that will turn out to be nothing of the sort.

......and BD+?
Hmmmm, let's see how much new trouble this 'added security' cr@p causes.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Sep 2007 @ 12:16

1613.9.2007 19:06

Wish Paramount would just give Spielberg the finger and release Raiders/Last Crusade on HD-DVD without his Holiness' approval.

1713.9.2007 20:25

I almost fell asleep from long winded posts as to why one format is better than the other.
As qouted in the story they don't care who wins this dumba$$ format war just so long as it puts money in their pockets.

I think I'll stick with my plain old dvd's for now. I have seen both in action and I'm not impressed with either.

1813.9.2007 23:33
HDextreme
Inactive

I think this is a wise move from Warner. If you look at it from a business perspective, why cater to one customer when you can cater to both. I'm surprised that more studios aren't doing the same thing. This kinda reminds me of the DVD+R and DVD-R format war. In the end, it was the dual format players that won.

In the HD format war, there will be no "real" winner... just a loser, the consumer.

1914.9.2007 8:50

by software i meant software sales, can you not comprehend or do you not just want to acknowledge that, or 300? good job with making yourself look like a fool. and you remember me, i owned you so many times on here with your hd dvd propaganda its sad, the fact that you got so defensive proves that you remember me.

2014.9.2007 9:14

Quote:
Originally posted by eatsushi:
You can't be serious. HD DVD is better in every respect and will dominate market share this holiday season....
1. - If by holidays you mean X-mas then yeah, I reckon.

.....and after what Denon has had to say about Blu-ray trying to reach final spec I'd say it's fully deserved too.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
even tho hd dvd players are cheaper, the software still lags behind regardless.
2. - Given that HD DVD is fully operation I'd love to know what exactly you're referring to here?

If it's codecs then nope, HD DVD's VC-1 codec is so good that even Sony have used it and the rest are using to increasingly.

If it's operating software then nope again, HD DVD has a fully functional and complete spec, unlike Blu-ray.

Go see what Denon have to say about Blu-ray's incomplete spec and worry about how it will affect you and the rest of the BD owners.

It's quoted & posted above.

Some 'lagging behind'. LMAO.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
that is sad, as soon as high school musical and spiderman 3(which is rumored to be packed in with the cheaper ps3, sure to get people picking up more titles ;)) and pirates, and all the other hits from the blu ray camp this fall its pretty much over...
3. - Dream on.
Transformers is the biggest movie of the summer and it's HD DVD.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
dominate marketshare how? the obligatory more didicated players even tho it doesnt translate to more software sales?
4. - Er, yes it does on a movies per player basis (ie those attachment rates which means HD DVD averages out at over 4 movies per player verses Blu-ray's less than 1).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
better as in codec maybe
5. - .....aha, so perhaps "the software still lags behind regardless" is by your own admission nonsense then, huh?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
which was being changed when paramount started supported better ones, that is why the hd dvd camp paid them off
6. - Prove it (and prove it without quoting a report of a rumour).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
they didnt want them to support it with better codecs.
- Where are you getting this rubbish from?
Warner continue to use VC-1 and even Sony have used it.

see www.blu-raystats.com

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
paramount wouldnt switch without a big check when they were selling more on blu ray.
7. - Prove it (and prove it without reference to the Blu-ray shill Bill hunt's own rumours being reported.....cos that's where this little fairy tale originates)

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
also they are only exclusive through 08?
- Nope, go look you'll find quotes from Viacom/Paramount saying "indefinite".

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and i have dealt with hughjars before, he remembers...
- Er, no I don't.
I have absolutely no idea who you are ......and with an ego as laughably large as that I might have remembered, if only in a derisory sense.
1. hd dvd will not only not dominate the software sales, hardware neither, $400 ps3 means game over.

2.you misunderstood me, software sales :)most movie goers dont care about connecting to the internet interactively through their hd player, who wants a cord running though there house connected behind their tv? almost no one.

also vc-1 isnt hd dvd's codec, its microsoft's all it is is supperior compression, which if you have more space you dont even need. paramount started to support vc 1 and the hd dvd camp got scared and bought them out for a year and a half.

hd dvd movies are mandated to use vc-1, on blu ray its up to the studios, they have a choice to as if they want to pay MS for vc-1 or still will good ol mpeg2.

who are you laughing at, yourself? LOL

3.the other guy disproved your transformers worship, every movie the hd dvd camp has blu ray has a bigger one.

4.this is the disgusting tricks the hd dvd camp loves to use, you must work for them, i wouldnt doubt it one bit. when it comes to overall players period the hd dvd camp doesnt want to count em and only wants to count dedicated players, they want to pretend like ps3 doesnt exist.

but when it is for their benefit in obligatory stats such as attach rate(which doesnt matter anyways cus studios dont care about how many are sold per player, they want more movies sold PERIOD) the want to count ps3. its disgusting really

5. this is part of your misunderstanding, i have said vc-1 is supported on all hd dvd movies but not blu ray.

6. its widely known, i dont need waste my time informing you of something everyone else already knows. and not all studios support vc-1, and not all studios have transformers and shrek like paramount does...

7.we know that they paid, and paramount wouldnt switch without being enticed, since they were selling more on blu ray, these are widely known and reported everywhere, everyone who supports both is selling more on blu ray, biggest hd movie of the year so far 300 selling twice as much on blu ray dispite having less features, like i said consumers dont care about a lot of those extra features. why would warner want to switch to hd dvd after that? unless they recieve a large check like paramount ;)

call me at the end of 08 when the deal is over, and paramount jumps back on the blu ray waggon after hd dvd's innevitable death.

that is all.

2114.9.2007 13:17
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
1. hd dvd will not only not dominate the software sales, hardware neither, $400 ps3 means game over.
- Yeah right and I'll have this weeks lottery numbers whilst you're at it.

As we saw from Sony's own graph at CEDIA a couple of weeks back Blu-ray's lead in movie sales has been in steep decline.

PS3 = Blu-ray is not a winning formula.
There are enough 'eggs' in that 'basket', heaping some more in is not going to change a thing.
It's a game console primarily......as very poor attachment rates demonstrate only too clearly.

Even as game console it's selling poorly, there are few good games and any price move they make will be matched by the others.
It's hardly the huge hit you obviously want it to be.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
2.you misunderstood me, software sales :)most movie goers dont care about connecting to the internet interactively through their hd player, who wants a cord running though there house connected behind their tv? almost no one.
- Tell that to everyone connecting up a subscription cable or satellite PVR/DVR.

Don't be absurd.

.....and it's not just a matter from the consumer's POV; another reason behind the Viacom/Paramount dumping of Blu-ray is that the 'industry' sees those 'advanced features' as key to additional income streams.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
also vc-1 isnt hd dvd's codec, its microsoft's all it is is supperior compression, which if you have more space you dont even need.
- Actually it's not just Microsoft's, it's been licenced and others have a (surprising?) degree of 'ownership' of it now.

......and thanks for admitting what many on the HD DVD side have said for ages, there are no serious technical reasons for such a size, the whole point of Blu-ray's 50gb size was thanks to using the ancient space-hungry MPEG2
(oh, and that wasteful unnecessary bloated audio they insist upon).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
paramount started to support vc 1 and the hd dvd camp got scared and bought them out for a year and a half.
- OK, you keep spouting the fairy-tales and I'll keep asking you to prove it.

You can't.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
hd dvd movies are mandated to use vc-1, on blu ray its up to the studios, they have a choice to as if they want to pay MS for vc-1 or still will good ol mpeg2.
- LMAO.

You're wrong actually.

The DVD Forum has 'mandated' VC-1, H.264, and MPEG-2 for the HD DVD format.
The Blu-ray Disc Association has 'mandated' the same three codecs for their blue-laser Blu-ray Disc format.

......and 'good ol'......'The Fifth Element', 'Robocop', 'House of the Flying Daggers'..... MPEG2?
Blu-ray movies so bad the 1st time around that they had to re-do and re-issue them?
No thanks.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
3.the other guy disproved your transformers worship, every movie the hd dvd camp has blu ray has a bigger one.
- "worship"
Jayzuss wept.
Pathetic.
Awesome level of debate there. Not.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
4.this is the disgusting tricks the hd dvd camp loves to use, you must work for them, i wouldnt doubt it one bit.
- I'm retired actually.
I do not work for, nor have I ever worked for, any of the companies (on any side) in this nor any company in any way connected to or with any of them.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
when it comes to overall players period the hd dvd camp doesnt want to count em and only wants to count dedicated players, they want to pretend like ps3 doesnt exist.
- I realise it's an advanced concept but try and keep up.

When you're counting 'stand-alone' players you count 'stand-alone' players.
The day Toshiba makes a game console that also plays HD movies then you'll get a comparison in the sales numbers with the PS3.
They don't so why should they?

Anyhoo, I still don't see how come you guys get your panties in such a knot over this, the HD DVD side is only to happy to see comparisons showing the 4, 5, or 6 million PS3s (depending on what numbers they're using in any particular week) can only manage a (shrinking) 60:40 movie disc sales lead over 200,000 or so HD DVD players and another 200,000 XBox 360 HD DVD add-ons.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
but when it is for their benefit in obligatory stats such as attach rate(which doesnt matter anyways cus studios dont care about how many are sold per player, they want more movies sold PERIOD) the want to count ps3. its disgusting really
- Wow, what are you like with real and actual 'serious stuff'?

Try getting a gasp on reality and some sort of sense of perspective & proportion why dont you?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
5. this is part of your misunderstanding, i have said vc-1 is supported on all hd dvd movies but not blu ray.
- Blu-ray studios have supported VC-1.

There's no misunderstanding.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
6. its widely known, i dont need waste my time informing you of something everyone else already knows. and not all studios support vc-1, and not all studios have transformers and shrek like paramount does...


- OK, feel free.
Which major Blu-ray studio has not issue movies on VC-1?

Even Sony has.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
7.we know that they paid
- No you don't.

You don't actually 'know' Jack 'S'.

You read reports of unnamed 'industry insiders' claiming that they knew Viacom/Paramount had been paidshortly after the move was made public.
Those rumours came right back to well-known Blu-ray shill Bill Hunt & his pal, actually.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and paramount wouldnt switch without being enticed
- Says you.
On the board of managing directors at Viacom/paramount are we, hmmmmm?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
since they were selling more on blu ray
- .....so?

Try reading what they actually said about costs and how those sales, like the market itself, are still tiny relative to the total retail movie disc market (under 3%).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
these are widely known and reported everywhere
- No.
The rumours were reported everywhere and supposedly 'known'; very few people seem to have actually bothered reading what Viacom/Paramount themselves had to say on the matter.

......and btw, to top it all 'shill-Bill' had to remove his allegation (which didn't stop it being reported as 'rumours' later on) from his blog after Microsoft, Toshiba & Vaiocom/Paramount publicly denied that little fantasy......and started talking about lawyers.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
everyone who supports both is selling more on blu ray, biggest hd movie of the year so far 300 selling twice as much on blu ray dispite having less features
- .....and the bit you guys just don't want to hear is that at this stage with the market so tiny and immature those numbers mean nothing in the overall scheme of things, it's far to early to be making big claims when the total sales are so small
(less than 3% of total retail movie disc sales - 100% more of almost nothing is still almost nothing).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
like i said consumers dont care about a lot of those extra features.
- Ah, I see.
So despite Sony et al advertsing the format as having 'advanced features' to attract custom & help justify the enormous price-premium you think people don't care.

....well OK, besides pulling that from out of your imagination, how can you back that up?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
why would warner want to switch to hd dvd after that? unless they recieve a large check like paramount
- Or alternatively maybe what Vaicom/Paramount said was their experience with costs and projected profitability after 1yrs experience with both formats is not unique just to them and others are finding exactly the same thing?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
call me at the end of 08 when the deal is over


- Viacom/paramount have said that as far as they are concerned the deal is 'indefinite'.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and paramount jumps back on the blu ray waggon after hd dvd's innevitable death.
- Yeah of course.
We have climbing HD DVD movie sales, climbing HD DVD hardware sales, entry level players about to hit @ $149 for X-mas followed by at least 2 (and probably 4) other entry level brands likely to push prices even lower
(sub $100 by summer 2008?).
Compared to the Blu-ray entry level which is pitched at the same level as a high-end Toshiba HD XA2!
LMAO.
But once again the Blu-ray side resort to ludicrous claims that HD DVD is 'dead or 'dying'.

.....and all while Blu-ray can't get their own spec finalised and 'profile 1.0' layers and discs to work properly with 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' players and discs.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
that is all.
- Promises promises. :P
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Sep 2007 @ 13:21

2214.9.2007 14:37

Originally posted by hughjars:
- No you don't.

You don't actually 'know' Jack 'S'.

You read reports of unnamed 'industry insiders' claiming that they knew Viacom/Paramount had been paidshortly after the move was made public.
Those rumours came right back to well-known Blu-ray shill Bill Hunt & his pal, actually.
It was New York times that broke the story also...They was paid i don't have a problem with it but why would Toshbia try to hide it? Desperation ?

The two studios may have left themselves wiggle room, however. Paramount’s agreement to use only HD DVD is limited to only 18 months. And Paramount noted that no films directed by Steven Spielberg were included in the deal “as his films are not exclusive to either format.” Mr. Spielberg is a co-founder of DreamWorks SKG, a unit of Paramount
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/techno...ssyahoo&emc=rss

I would think that they would know more than you with ties to the market analyst they can see when money change hands.


Originally posted by hughjars:
- Viacom/paramount have said that as far as they are concerned the deal is 'indefinite'.
[bold]in·def·i·nite (ĭn-dĕf'ə-nĭt) pronunciation
adj.

Not definite, especially:

1. Unclear; vague.
2. Lacking precise limits: an indefinite leave of absence.
3. Uncertain; undecided: indefinite about their plans.


Originally posted by hughjars:
- Yeah of course.
We have climbing HD DVD movie sales, climbing HD DVD hardware sales, entry level players about to hit @ $149 for X-mas followed by at least 2 (and probably 4) other entry level brands likely to push prices even lower
This holiday season you really think there going to be more demand for a cheap 200.00 HD-DVD player over a PS3 multimedia console sku that 400 bucks? You really dreaming there wakeup no one is foaming at the mouth for a cheap HD-DVD player...lol HD-DVD hasn't seen any movie climb.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Sep 2007 @ 14:57

2314.9.2007 18:03
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by nextgen76:
It was New York times that broke the story
- You mean the NY Times reported they had heard 'rumours' and 'inside sources' claiming this had happened.

That's nothing like the same thing.

For someone who wants to quibble over the precise dictionary meaning of words your acceptance of a report of a rumour as if it were a cast-iron guaranteed fact is rather hilarious.

Particularly when all 3 parties supposedly involved in the deal have publicly denied those rumours.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
They was paid
- Then prove it if you claim to know it for a fact.

You can't.

You just claim you 'know' because that is the story you want to believe. You have no actual proof of it at all.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
i don't have a problem with it
- It's simply a matter of fact or not, it's nothing to do with whether you would prefer the story to be correct or not.

You have no facts in this, only reports of rumours and hearsay.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
why would Toshbia try to hide it? Desperation ?
- Well case closed Colombo.
That must be it.

It couldn't possibly be that it just isn't actually true, huh?

Tell me, do you believe everything you read in 'newspapers'?

Originally posted by nextgen76:
I would think that they would know more than you with ties to the market analyst they can see when money change hands.
- No they can't, what money did the NYT see change hands?
When did this happen (in front of them) & where was this reported?!

Unless they are party to the agreement (which they are not) then they have nothing besides the same rumours and tall-tales the rest of us have heard.

Do you always accept what you read in a 'newspaper' at face value everytime?
'Market Analyst' is just a fancy name for an opinion-given, informed or not it doesn't necessarily make the stories of 'rumours' or 'insider tales' actual facts.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
Not definite, especially:
- Yeah. OK. Let's cut to the chase.

'Indefinite' - as in you can't possibly make claims about 18mths cos you don't know, you weren't there and you have never seen the actual agreement that was made
(and neither was anyone else claiming this little gem......and it sure as hell isn't coming from anyone authoritative, official or connected with any of the companies involved that would know. cos those people have said just the opposite of the innuendo that this is a short-term deal).

Originally posted by nextgen76:
This holiday season you really think there going to be more demand for a cheap 200.00 HD-DVD player
- Demand for the $200 Toshiba HD A2 has placed it as the best selling DVD player on Amazon (out of all DVD players, not just high def ones) and that has been so for several months now.

The next stage is the $149 Venturer.

After that comes a $100 Shinco.

All high quality upscaling SD DVD players that happen to be excellent HD DVD players (taking the gen 3 players as their 'reference design').

Don't worry, the public are going to love them, especially as they will be bundled with low-cost LCD/Plasma TVs at certain outlets etc etc.

HD DVD's entry level @ $100/$149 verses a mythical PS3 @ $400. lol
Keep dreaming.

The game console market (and no matter how they try and kid themselves with garbage about 'media centres', 'home entertainment hubs' and all the rest of that marketing BS, it is just a game console) is not the a/v market.
Never was and never will be.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
over a PS3 multimedia console sku that 400 bucks?
- LMAO
'Multimedia', hilarious. Yeah but only really to PS3 fans.

You guys can keep beating the drum about the PS3 all you like but it's a game console with few games.

The early adopter crowd who wanted one as their cheap(est) way in to Blu-ray got theirs long ago.

The rest that are left now are mainly people wanting a game console.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
You really dreaming there wakeup no one is foaming at the mouth for a cheap HD-DVD player.
- You're dreaming if you imagine the PS3 is suddenly going to drive Blu-ray movies with this (*only rumoured*) move.

But that's been the story with Blu-ray all the way through, always something about to appear which will finally settle it for them.....and never quite either happening or making much odds.

Nevermind a cheapo PS3, they ought to be sorting out and finishing the format itself.

Originally posted by nextgen76:
..lol HD-DVD hasn't seen any movie climb.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/index.cfm


- Are you blind?




It's clear HD DVD has closed back up on Blu-ray.

With 4, 5 or 6 million PS3s verses 200,000 HD DVD & a further 200,000 XBox 360 HD DVD add-ons that 'lead' is pathetic.

No wonder Viacom/Paramount saw the writing on the wall and dumped Blu-ray.

You can dismiss the effect all you like but HD DVD now offers the most actual and available content, the most exclusive content and (thanks to being region-free everytime & deals with major & independent movie studios, publishers and distribution companies worldwide) the most potential content.

....and when the 51gb disc arrives HD DVD will also have the largest storage (and if the 1.5 spin speed is confirmed) the highest bit-rate too.

Meanwhile Blu-ray are still working hard to try and make sure 'profile 1.0' players & discs (ie everything sold to date) will work properly with 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' players and discs.
Nevermind, maybe in 6 - 12mths those features will all be available on the next Blu-ray player you're forced to buy if you want to enjoy them.
:P

2414.9.2007 21:01

All this is telling me is that Warner is still putting its eggs in both baskets.

2517.9.2007 17:36

Originally posted by hughjars:
Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
1. hd dvd will not only not dominate the software sales, hardware neither, $400 ps3 means game over.
1.- Yeah right and I'll have this weeks lottery numbers whilst you're at it.

As we saw from Sony's own graph at CEDIA a couple of weeks back Blu-ray's lead in movie sales has been in steep decline.

PS3 = Blu-ray is not a winning formula.
There are enough 'eggs' in that 'basket', heaping some more in is not going to change a thing.
It's a game console primarily......as very poor attachment rates demonstrate only too clearly.

Even as game console it's selling poorly, there are few good games and any price move they make will be matched by the others.
It's hardly the huge hit you obviously want it to be.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
2.you misunderstood me, software sales :)most movie goers dont care about connecting to the internet interactively through their hd player, who wants a cord running though there house connected behind their tv? almost no one.
2. - Tell that to everyone connecting up a subscription cable or satellite PVR/DVR.

Don't be absurd.

.....and it's not just a matter from the consumer's POV; another reason behind the Viacom/Paramount dumping of Blu-ray is that the 'industry' sees those 'advanced features' as key to additional income streams.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
also vc-1 isnt hd dvd's codec, its microsoft's all it is is supperior compression, which if you have more space you dont even need.
3.- Actually it's not just Microsoft's, it's been licenced and others have a (surprising?) degree of 'ownership' of it now.

......and thanks for admitting what many on the HD DVD side have said for ages, there are no serious technical reasons for such a size, the whole point of Blu-ray's 50gb size was thanks to using the ancient space-hungry MPEG2
(oh, and that wasteful unnecessary bloated audio they insist upon).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
paramount started to support vc 1 and the hd dvd camp got scared and bought them out for a year and a half.
4. - OK, you keep spouting the fairy-tales and I'll keep asking you to prove it.

You can't.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
hd dvd movies are mandated to use vc-1, on blu ray its up to the studios, they have a choice to as if they want to pay MS for vc-1 or still will good ol mpeg2.
5. - LMAO.

You're wrong actually.

The DVD Forum has 'mandated' VC-1, H.264, and MPEG-2 for the HD DVD format.
The Blu-ray Disc Association has 'mandated' the same three codecs for their blue-laser Blu-ray Disc format.

......and 'good ol'......'The Fifth Element', 'Robocop', 'House of the Flying Daggers'..... MPEG2?
Blu-ray movies so bad the 1st time around that they had to re-do and re-issue them?
No thanks.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
3.the other guy disproved your transformers worship, every movie the hd dvd camp has blu ray has a bigger one.
6. - "worship"
Jayzuss wept.
Pathetic.
Awesome level of debate there. Not.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
4.this is the disgusting tricks the hd dvd camp loves to use, you must work for them, i wouldnt doubt it one bit.
7. - I'm retired actually.
I do not work for, nor have I ever worked for, any of the companies (on any side) in this nor any company in any way connected to or with any of them.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
when it comes to overall players period the hd dvd camp doesnt want to count em and only wants to count dedicated players, they want to pretend like ps3 doesnt exist.
8. - I realise it's an advanced concept but try and keep up.

When you're counting 'stand-alone' players you count 'stand-alone' players.
The day Toshiba makes a game console that also plays HD movies then you'll get a comparison in the sales numbers with the PS3.
They don't so why should they?

Anyhoo, I still don't see how come you guys get your panties in such a knot over this, the HD DVD side is only to happy to see comparisons showing the 4, 5, or 6 million PS3s (depending on what numbers they're using in any particular week) can only manage a (shrinking) 60:40 movie disc sales lead over 200,000 or so HD DVD players and another 200,000 XBox 360 HD DVD add-ons.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
but when it is for their benefit in obligatory stats such as attach rate(which doesnt matter anyways cus studios dont care about how many are sold per player, they want more movies sold PERIOD) the want to count ps3. its disgusting really
9. - Wow, what are you like with real and actual 'serious stuff'?

Try getting a gasp on reality and some sort of sense of perspective & proportion why dont you?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
5. this is part of your misunderstanding, i have said vc-1 is supported on all hd dvd movies but not blu ray.
10. - Blu-ray studios have supported VC-1.

There's no misunderstanding.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
6. its widely known, i dont need waste my time informing you of something everyone else already knows. and not all studios support vc-1, and not all studios have transformers and shrek like paramount does...


11. - OK, feel free.
Which major Blu-ray studio has not issue movies on VC-1?

Even Sony has.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
7.we know that they paid
12. - No you don't.

You don't actually 'know' Jack 'S'.

You read reports of unnamed 'industry insiders' claiming that they knew Viacom/Paramount had been paidshortly after the move was made public.
Those rumours came right back to well-known Blu-ray shill Bill Hunt & his pal, actually.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and paramount wouldnt switch without being enticed
13. - Says you.
On the board of managing directors at Viacom/paramount are we, hmmmmm?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
since they were selling more on blu ray
14. - .....so?

Try reading what they actually said about costs and how those sales, like the market itself, are still tiny relative to the total retail movie disc market (under 3%).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
these are widely known and reported everywhere
15. - No.
The rumours were reported everywhere and supposedly 'known'; very few people seem to have actually bothered reading what Viacom/Paramount themselves had to say on the matter.

......and btw, to top it all 'shill-Bill' had to remove his allegation (which didn't stop it being reported as 'rumours' later on) from his blog after Microsoft, Toshiba & Vaiocom/Paramount publicly denied that little fantasy......and started talking about lawyers.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
everyone who supports both is selling more on blu ray, biggest hd movie of the year so far 300 selling twice as much on blu ray dispite having less features
16. - .....and the bit you guys just don't want to hear is that at this stage with the market so tiny and immature those numbers mean nothing in the overall scheme of things, it's far to early to be making big claims when the total sales are so small
(less than 3% of total retail movie disc sales - 100% more of almost nothing is still almost nothing).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
like i said consumers dont care about a lot of those extra features.
17. - Ah, I see.
So despite Sony et al advertsing the format as having 'advanced features' to attract custom & help justify the enormous price-premium you think people don't care.

....well OK, besides pulling that from out of your imagination, how can you back that up?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
why would warner want to switch to hd dvd after that? unless they recieve a large check like paramount
18. - Or alternatively maybe what Vaicom/Paramount said was their experience with costs and projected profitability after 1yrs experience with both formats is not unique just to them and others are finding exactly the same thing?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
call me at the end of 08 when the deal is over


19. - Viacom/paramount have said that as far as they are concerned the deal is 'indefinite'.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and paramount jumps back on the blu ray waggon after hd dvd's innevitable death.
20. - Yeah of course.
We have climbing HD DVD movie sales, climbing HD DVD hardware sales, entry level players about to hit @ $149 for X-mas followed by at least 2 (and probably 4) other entry level brands likely to push prices even lower
(sub $100 by summer 2008?).
Compared to the Blu-ray entry level which is pitched at the same level as a high-end Toshiba HD XA2!
LMAO.
But once again the Blu-ray side resort to ludicrous claims that HD DVD is 'dead or 'dying'.

.....and all while Blu-ray can't get their own spec finalised and 'profile 1.0' layers and discs to work properly with 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' players and discs.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
that is all.
21. - Promises promises. :P
1.you can make dream filled predictions about hd dvd winning and no one else cant even though blu ray has been dominating? you are the elite one here right? LOL

steep decline? i thought the sales were so miniscule it doesnt matter at this point? contradiction ftl

enough eggs in the basket? blu ray has always been a part of the basket so your point is moot. the software attach rate again part of your camp's dirty tactics to make it seem like hd dvd is ahead, overall sales is what matters and hd dvd is losing, deal with it.

as a $600 console which had no killer apps for the longest time its actually selling pretty good, $400 is long considered the sweet spot for high end electronics, iphone just moved down to that price ;) and $400 ps3 packed with the biggest movie of the year will get movies sold anf consoles moved whether you like it or not. and now the system is starting to get games, heavenly sword has been selling out and with GT5 prologue coming, drakes, ratchet future, unreal tournament 3, etc, etc coming it should be fine for the holidays ;) sounds to me like you are scared of the $400 ps3 packed with spiderman 3, i would be too if i was in the hd dvd camp LOL>

2. tell that to everyone? you mean all 12 people who are doing it? you know damn well as i do the number of people actually connecting to it is not even worth mentioning, otherwise prove it, oh you cant cus the 300 that had more features sold twice as less, owned. in the future they will provide additional income streams, as far as right now no, and in the future in the coming months blu ray will have those features , so again your point is moot.

3. vc 1 was developed by microsoft, oh and i thought you were saying most studios on blu ray use vc 1, which is it? make up your mind, more contradictions, oh and i got another one, why is toshiba trying so hard to get a 51gb disc out there? hmmm. oh yes and the audio is wasteful cus hd dvd doesnt support it, its superior deal with it.

4. google it, its all over the web, i think you are the only person on the planet denying that money exchanged hands AHAH. in these types of deals there are provisions stating that neither parties can confirm exchanging of money or lenght of the contracts, indefinite doesnt mean forever and in fact that is pretty nice way of saying "for now". the fact that you grasp so hard on that word shows how desperate you are.

5. all hd dvd movies were using vc 1 for the most part if not all since the beginning, thats why people stated that early hd dvd movies looked better, the sinlge layer blu ray discs were too small and used mpeg 2 which resulted in bad compression. again you are contradicting yourself, how many times do you need to do that?

many studios are supporting vc 1 now but many did not, like dreamgirls and other movies.

6.you conceded you lost then? we can all see your worship here, every thread that has to do with hd dvd even when it is bad news like new line holding off hd dvd till next year you try your best to spin it. everyone can see here you are probably a viral marketer, to the point that its sad.

7.oh so it is just worship? ok

8.basically you admit the dirty tactics, its sad almost, no it is sad. you yourself just said at the beginning that most ps3 players wont be used as blu ray players but mostly as consoles, but now you count them all as blu ray players... how many times can you contradict yourself in one post? seriously this is getting crazy now, dude are you bi polar? make up your mind. and thats 60/40 in america last i checked nielson, in the rest of the world how existent is hd dvd? almost non?

9. the irony oh the irony, you are the guy spouting hd dvd is winning when in reality it is being pounded and the lead widening, 300 is a prime example of that and studios(especially warner) are seeing those figures, blu ray production costs have come down tremendously and are basically the same as hd dvd now that it is being more mass produced as it is being used for games on ps3. the fact that more studios are paying to license vc 1 on blu ray now than before proves this

10.i never said they didnt, just not all of them do, that is your misunderstanding.

11.plenty of studios havent, thats why people complained that hd dvd quality was better before. mpeg 2 in hd has problems fitting on a single layer blu ray. but now studios are switching.

12. its widely reported and considered fact by everyone but you, google it if you feel. why would a studio switch to a format that is behind even when they themselves are selling more on blu ray? the extra revenue streams arent making any money right now and wont be with those extra features for a while and blu ray will start supporting them through soon anyways. you are like those japanese guys stuck on islands in world war 2 after 10 years who thought the war was still going on and they hadnt lost. you are in so much denial its sad LOL

13. says anyone with half a brain, hmm sell twice as much on blu ray and make more money or sell less by going hd dvd exclusive? does it really take a rocket scientist?

14.exactly why they are exclusive through only 08, the market is too small right now. call me at the end of next year when the deal is over, and if it is over you should leave this site, we can make a bet ;)

15.i read it and it was all PR as usual. and he wasnt the first one to talk about the deal it was reported long before him. you cant track the leak to him otherwise you would have proof, you dont. and again indefinite doesnt mean forever and the fact that you try to pretend that it does shows how desperate you are.

16. so now when it is to your benefit we cant use ratios right? 2 to 1 sales is a big deal especially with the biggest multiformat movie of the year so far. denial

17.its PR advertising from companies, whats new? everyone does it even the hd dvd camp. the fact that 300 had way more features on hd dvd proves that consumers at this point could care less about them, they just wanna see the movies on their hd tvs, maybe in 2 years they will care.

18.again since warner's 300 is selling twice as much on blu ray id have to say no.

19.in other words that means for the time being, selfownage.

20. sales are climbing but still chasing blu ray, obviously not climbing fast enough ;) do you honestly think blu ray wont answer to cheap hd dvd players? at this point they dont have to, hd dvd started earlier and has always been cheaper yet they still got passed up by blu ray and still are being beat by them. whether you like it or not ps3 made the difference and a cheaper one will sell more a month than hd dvd players will sell in 6 months. and blu ray will still come out with cheap standalones as well, they can be $100 more and still maintain the lead, they pretty much are doing that now.

you can grasp on the specs all you want cus in the end it will be a non issue that will be solved in no time. thats pretty much all the hd dvd camp has been able to grasp to since the start

studios dont seem to mind, new line was it just favored blu ray? AHAHHA

21.you got owned, goodbye, i feel no need to reply to you anymore since you contradict yourself more than anyone i have seen to date on any forums and you are in complete denial.

sweet dreams atsutoshi LMAO
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Sep 2007 @ 19:59

2618.9.2007 4:50
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
1.you can make dream filled predictions about hd dvd winning and no one else cant even though blu ray has been dominating?
- But that's precisely the point you're missing.

It is not and cannot be "domination" when the market is so immature and the numbers sold are so tiny.
It's inconsequential is what it is.
It's not really got started is the truth (you so obviously desperately want to deny).

The facts are that it's a (actually pretty weak) wholly expected consequence of the PS3 coming along.

But those numbers are minute compared to the whole retail disc market.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you are the elite one here right?
- Try making sense & sticking to the facts, eh?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
steep decline? i thought the sales were so miniscule it doesnt matter at this point? contradiction ftl
- It's not a contradiction to point out the falling level of Blu-ray sales.

It would be if I claimed Blu-ray was 'dead' or 'winning' because of them tho.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
enough eggs in the basket? blu ray has always been a part of the basket so your point is moot.
- The basket is Blu-ray, the eggs were the PS3.
Do try and keep up.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the software attach rate again part of your camp's dirty tactics to make it seem like hd dvd is ahead, overall sales is what matters and hd dvd is losing, deal with it.
- "Dirty tactic"?!
LMAO.
The attachment rate is a fair and long-used statistic.

You don't like them cos they show that as HD DVD player numbers grow HD DVD will catch then pass Blu-ray disc sales numbers.
It's just a matter of time.

No doubt if they showed Blu-ray doing a lot better you'd like them then.
It's a ridiculous point you're trying to make.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
as a $600 console which had no killer apps for the longest time its actually selling pretty good
- Well so the propagandists love to claim.

The fact is that it's caught in a vicious circle, sales are too low compared to the competition so relatively few games get bought so few game developers want to put money into developing games for it etc etc.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
$400 is long considered the sweet spot for high end electronics, iphone just moved down to that price ;) and $400 ps3 packed with the biggest movie of the year will get movies sold anf consoles moved whether you like it or not.
- Always 'jam tomorrow' with Blu-ray/PS3.

I prefer to wait and see if it comes to be.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and now the system is starting to get games, heavenly sword has been selling out and with GT5 prologue coming, drakes, ratchet future, unreal tournament 3, etc, etc coming it should be fine for the holidays ;) sounds to me like you are scared of the $400 ps3 packed with spiderman 3, i would be too if i was in the hd dvd camp LOL
- The PS3 is still trailing in 3rd place (and recently we saw console sales drop to cap it off).

....and Spiderman 3 was an awful movie. Wow, if that's your idea of a 'killer' move then "lol" indeed.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
2. tell that to everyone? you mean all 12 people who are doing it? you know damn well as i do the number of people actually connecting to it is not even worth mentioning
- What are you on about?

Of course the on-line stuff has only just got up and running......but all HD DVD players sold since day 1 can use it and the rest of the 'advanced functions', unlike the existing BD competition.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the 300 that had more features sold twice as less
- .....and yet the reports are that due to the costs it was nothing like twice as profitable for the studio.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
owned
- Why are you talking like you're 9yrs old or something?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
in the future they will provide additional income streams, as far as right now no, and in the future in the coming months blu ray will have those features , so again your point is moot.
- Er, no it isn't.

Blu-ray's 'Profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' require hardware as well as software, you can't just upgrade to it by firmware.

We now know from Denon
(who are only making a high-end 'profile 1.1' & 'profile 2.0' player....what would they know, huh?)
that they are having to work "very hard", right now, on getting 'profile 1.0'
(ie everything Bluray that has been sold to date)
discs and players to work properly with Blu-ray 'profile 1.1' and 'profile 2.0' discs and players.

http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_...adge.aug.07.php

So no, it's not moot that Blu-ray is (still) having great difficulties and in trouble getting to it's final spec.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
vc 1 was developed by microsoft, oh and i thought you were saying most studios on blu ray use vc 1, which is it?
- No. Why not read and stick to what I actually said?

You claimed Viacom/Paramount were encouraged to switch to being HD DVD (for a laughably tiny - to them - $150 million) because "they didnt want them to support it with better codecs".

I replied "Where are you getting this rubbish from?
Warner continue to use VC-1 and even Sony have used it."

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
make up your mind, more contradictions
- No, you're just proving incapable of sticking to the (obvious) point, it's easy to see & pretty obvious why.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
why is toshiba trying so hard to get a 51gb disc out there?
-Because for a tiny number of movies it will be useful; it's also likely to be very useful to the home PC user in a suitably equipped drive and it's good PR.
And what?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the audio is wasteful cus hd dvd doesnt support it, its superior deal with it.
- Uncompressed audio is enormously 'space wasteful' compared to Dolby True HD audio
(which is also totally loss-less and therefore the equal of anything out there, deal with that)

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
it's all over the web, i think you are the only person on the planet denying that money exchanged hands AHAH.
- Oh well, if rumours are "all over the web" then case closed Colombo.
Never-mind that the source of the rumour can be traced and that all the connected parties publicly denied it.

Mind you, the fact that you obviously believe Viacom/Paramount would dump Blu-ray for what is - to them - effectively lose change is very amusing.

(they can spend $150 million in the blink of an eye, make or lose $150 million in a week or two on any movie......not just the big ones these days).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
in these types of deals there are provisions stating that neither parties can confirm exchanging of money or lenght of the contracts, indefinite doesnt mean forever and in fact that is pretty nice way of saying "for now". the fact that you grasp so hard on that word shows how desperate you are.
- No your invention and disregarding of the facts here is the clear & obvious 'desperation'.
But the fact you prefer to believe that a mere and paltry $150 million would have Viacom/Paramount dump Blu-ray is the funniest part of this.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
all hd dvd movies were using vc 1 for the most part if not all since the beginning, thats why people stated that early hd dvd movies looked better
- Er, I never said otherwise.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the sinlge layer blu ray discs were too small and used mpeg 2 which resulted in bad compression. again you are contradicting yourself, how many times do you need to do that?
- I see back to this laughable ploy now are we?

Try sticking to what was actually said.

You claimed "hd dvd movies are mandated to use vc-1, on blu ray its up to the studios, they have a choice to as if they want to pay MS for vc-1 or still will good ol mpeg2."

I replied "LMAO.

You're wrong actually.

The DVD Forum has 'mandated' VC-1, H.264, and MPEG-2 for the HD DVD format.
The Blu-ray Disc Association has 'mandated' the same three codecs for their blue-laser Blu-ray Disc format.

......and 'good ol'......'The Fifth Element', 'Robocop', 'House of the Flying Daggers'..... MPEG2?
Blu-ray movies so bad the 1st time around that they had to re-do and re-issue them?
No thanks."


My answer is factually correct....so it's pretty obvious why you now want to try and pretend I had said something else.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you conceded you lost then?
- What are you referring to?

Cos I found your "worship" comment to be absurd & infantile?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
we can all see your worship here, every thread that has to do with hd dvd even when it is bad news like new line holding off hd dvd till next year you try your best to spin it. everyone can see here you are probably a viral marketer, to the point that its sad.
- LMAO

I already told you, I'm retired.
I have not and never had had anything to do with any of the companies involved in this......but I do really enjoy pi*sing over the pitch ruining it for the people who are actually here as "viral marketeers".

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
basically you admit the dirty tactics
- It's not "dirty tactics" (like as if it makes much odds to anything anyways).

Stand-alone players get compared to other stand-alone players and game consoles get compared to game consoles.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you count them all as blu ray players.
- .....and what exactly is your distress here?

You claim it's a "dirty tactic" not to count them as stand-alone players but now say I'm being contradictory if I do count them as Blu-ray capable players?
Yeah right, of course, to you I'm the one being inconsistent and contradictory. LMAO.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
and thats 60/40 in america last i checked nielson, in the rest of the world how existent is hd dvd? almost non?
- Both formats are tiny in "the rest of the world" but I can show Amazon graphs from Germany, the UK & Japan all showing the same thing (surprising in the case of Japan I thought).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you are the guy spouting hd dvd is winning when in reality it is being pounded and the lead widening
- No, try sticking to what I actually said.

I said that claims of one side "winning" are far too early to make and that on balance I think that with the lowest costs and the greatest content HD DVD will win.
That's not quite the same thing, though if the subtlety escapes you that's your problem.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
300 is a prime example of that and studios(especially warner) are seeing those figures
- Yeah this is true.
But seeing as you don't know the whole story or those figures the rest is just invention on your part.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
blu ray production costs have come down tremendously and are basically the same as hd dvd
- Well go ahead, prove it then if you 'know' this.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the fact that more studios are paying to license vc 1 on blu ray now than before proves this
- Er, no.
All that proves is that they prefer to use a decent modern codec.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
i never said they didnt, just not all of them do, that is your misunderstanding.
- No, once again you ought to try sticking to what you actually said (and people wonder why I quote).
You actually originally said "i have said vc-1 is supported on all hd dvd movies but not blu ray."

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
plenty of studios havent
- Well I did ask & I'm still waiting to hear which ones haven't.

You said "its widely known, i dont need waste my time informing you of something everyone else already knows. and not all studios support vc-1"

I replied "OK, feel free.
Which major Blu-ray studio has not issue movies on VC-1?

Even Sony has"


Still no answer then ,huh?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
thats why people complained that hd dvd quality was better before. mpeg 2 in hd has problems fitting on a single layer blu ray. but now studios are switching."
- You know you could just admit that you meant not all Blu-ray movies have been done in VC-1 (which whilst true would be a rather funny statement of the obvious).
Correct me if I'm wrong but that seems to 'fit' much more with what you might be trying to say.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
its widely reported and considered fact by everyone but you
- Just because there have been reports (of a rumour) that does not make it a fact.
Facts require proof to back them up, not mere repeated assertion.....which is all you have here, just admit it and move on.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
why would a studio switch to a format that is behind even when they themselves are selling more on blu ray?
- Maybe cos what they said about costs is true?
Maybe that that fact and the likely sales of low cost HD DVD players has them deciding their best interests lie elsewhere?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you are like those japanese guys stuck on islands in world war 2 after 10 years who thought the war was still going on and they hadnt lost. you are in so much denial its sad
- .....and your continual move away from debating the issues and on to personal attacks says everything about how you have so little to be shouting about.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
says anyone with half a brain, hmm sell twice as much on blu ray and make more money or sell less by going hd dvd exclusive? does it really take a rocket scientist?
- Actually it takes someone involved who can see the costs associated to those sales.
Sadly only someone with the most laughably superfical grasp on this kind of thing would only imagine that the sales numbers themselves are the only factor worth considering.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
exactly why they are exclusive through only 08
- Well if this is another "fact" then lets see you back it up and prove it with some real and actual evidence
(as opposed to mere reports of yet more rumours & hearsay).

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the market is too small right now. call me at the end of next year when the deal is over, and if it is over you should leave this site, we can make a bet
- Pathetic. Grow up.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
indefinite doesnt mean forever and the fact that you try to pretend that it does shows how desperate you are.
- No.
The fact that you'd try & compare 'indefinite' to 'forever' to back up your (fact-free) claim of '18 months' is the indication of desperation.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
so now when it is to your benefit we cant use ratios right?
- Excuse me?
The total market is the one number that ought to be used above all others as it places so much of the spin & PR into perspective.

Placing the numbers of both formats sold before the total retail disc market is hardly to anyone's 'benefit' whilst both are so tiny.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
2 to 1 sales is a big deal especially with the biggest multiformat movie of the year so far. denial
- Not when the numbers sold are so small it isn't.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
17.its PR advertising from companies, whats new? everyone does it even the hd dvd camp.
- The difference there would be that the HD DVD is a finished format and the extra functions work on all HD DVD players sold since day 1.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
the fact that 300 had way more features on hd dvd proves that consumers at this point could care less about them, they just wanna see the movies on their hd tvs, maybe in 2 years they will care.
- Really? Surveyed all the buyers of the 300 on HD DVD now have we?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
again since warner's 300 is selling twice as much on blu ray id have to say no.
- ......and I'd continue to point out that unless you actually know anything abut the costs involved in those sales that you are just spouting your (obvious) prejudices.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
in other words that means for the time being
- I see, so unless they actually say "forever" it probably means until next week - to you - huh?
Jayzuss wept.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
selfownage.
- Pathetic US kiddies TV-speak?

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
sales are climbing but still chasing blu ray, obviously not climbing fast enough
- That depends on the timescale you prefer to use.
Blu-ray wanted everyone to believe it was all over around a year ago, it's very obvious why right now.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
do you honestly think blu ray wont answer to cheap hd dvd players?
- The truth is they can't.
The steep fall in HD DVD prices has shocked almost eveyone watching this.

Not only are we getting those low-cost Chinese HD DVD players but instead of the expected (a year ago) $300 they will be selling for half that @ $149.
Instead of taking their 'reference design' as the gen 2 Toshiba HD A2 it turns out it is the gen 3 HD A3.

It took years setting up the licencing deal with China (Toshiba signed with the Chinese in 2005).

Blu-ray have not done this, you cannot just ignore that fact
(and they have specifically said they would not do this as part of the intention behind BD was to recover the kinds of profit margins CE companies & corporations used to 'enjoy' when DVD 1st appeared).

They all source components from China already (open up your PS3 console & see), that is not the same thing as licencing a 'reference design'.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
at this point they dont have to, hd dvd started earlier and has always been cheaper yet they still got passed up by blu ray and still are being beat by them.
- Only because of the (wholly expected) short-term boost of the PS3.

Without the PS3 Blu-ray died and was buried long long ago.
The truth is that PS3 is Blu-ray.

.....and they aren't selling another 4, 5, or 6 million of them anytime soon, not even if this rumoured $400 sku appears.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
a cheaper one will sell more a month than hd dvd players will sell in 6 months.
- We'll see.
More 'jam tomorrow'.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you can grasp on the specs all you want
- Well that's one way to try and dismiss sticking to the facts.

Originally posted by CaLiMaCk:
you got owned, goodbye, i feel no need to reply to you anymore since you contradict yourself more than anyone i have seen to date on any forums and you are in complete denial.

sweet dreams atsutoshi LMAO
- ....and there we have it, a final resort to the invented personal jibes.
Pathetic.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Sep 2007 @ 6:19

2724.3.2008 19:21

i feel so vindicated right now lol!!!

2825.3.2008 12:26

As you should. May we never have to sit throug moronic arguments again.

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