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Update: DVD Forum has not approved 51 GB HD DVD yet

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 16 Sep 2007 15:04 User comments (26)

Update: DVD Forum has not approved 51 GB HD DVD yet A Toshiba spokesperson has said that final approval has not been given to the 51 GB HD DVD format but only that a preliminary version of the three-layer disc has been approved by the DVD Forum.
"We understand that the preliminary version (1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc has been approved," said Toshiba's spokesperson today.

The spokesperson went on to say that it was not sure whether current hardware would be able to use the upcoming format which has been given the name "Trip-Layer".

"Toshiba will study the performance of current HD DVD player/recorders with the disc after the standard receives final approval by the DVD Forum" added the spokesperson.

That quote makes it pretty clear that final approval is still not granted which is contrary to past reports.

A Toshiba official statement adds the following: "We welcome the DVD Forum Steering Committee's decision to approve the preliminary version (Version 1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc. This decision reinforces the fact that HD DVD is capable of offering a range of capacities due to the flexible nature of the format and provides studios with even greater options for creating high definition content. With extended capacities, studios can meet their future needs for releases that may require more storage."

More updates on final approval as they become available.

Source:
BetaNews

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26 user comments

116.9.2007 15:37

Thats sux for a 51 GB disk to be 3 Layers. Well BLU-RAY still is the BEST. And will always bE!!!

216.9.2007 15:37

Thats sux for a 51 GB disk to be 3 Layers. Well BLU-RAY still is the BEST. And will always bE!!!

316.9.2007 15:38

OOOps Double post

416.9.2007 16:11

So when is Toshiba going to fix the issue's with there Trojan Horse combo format disc that so many people are having issues with.A larger disc shouldn't even be there focus right now.

516.9.2007 16:21
DC5R
Inactive

I wouldn't say it sucks. Just a bit different from BD. Sure BD already has the ability for 50gigs on 2 layers, but that's no reason to throw malice towards HDDVD. The only thing I find funny about it, they normally have 15gigs per layer, yet they make 3 layers and stretch it to be exactly 1gig more than what BD has in 2 layers. To me that just shows they hope their format will win, but are not very confident in it. I could be very wrong in my thinking, but it's just what I feel by those actions.

There are those on the other side of the fence who say why is 50gigs needed and who needs to do that much back up, but I sometimes see these same people propping up the ability of a 51gig disc...FOR WHAT and WHY?

616.9.2007 16:37

If this goes through then all 25 people who bought an hddvd player are going to have to buy all new players.

716.9.2007 16:46

Originally posted by limelight:
If this goes through then all 25 people who bought an hddvd player are going to have to buy all new players.
Now now, you are just plain asking for a flaming ;)

816.9.2007 17:08
hughjars
Inactive

You've got to laugh at the Blu-ray fanclub instantly pretending that they "know" any HD DVD players will have a problem with any of the triple layered discs
(check out the Twin disc, very interesting prospect.....it was also approved by the DVD Forum).

The one side in this that we actually do 'know' is having real problems is the Blu-ray side who keep delaying their move to a final settled spec (even the much delayed 'profile 1.1' isn't it, no-one knows how long it'll take until the supposedly 'final' 'profile 2.0' will appear.).
We know (cos Blu-ray producer Denon have publicly told us) that they are (right now) "working very hard" to try and get 'profile 1.0' players and discs (ie everything Blu-ray sold to date) working properly with 'profile 1.1' and 'profile2.0' players and discs.

http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_...adge.aug.07.php

51gb TL HD DVD discs are coming, but they're hardly 'vital' to an excellent HD encode as so many DL 30gb discs prove.
The Blu-ray groupies are just really pi*sed off at losing their bragging rights, that's all.

.....and with the Toshiba HD A2 the best selling DVD player (of any type) on Amazon USA (and it's been that way for months) dumb little digs that hardly anyone is buying are just laughable.

The Blu-ray fanclub would be far better employed pushing their own preferred format to hurry up & produce the final spec than trying to take idiotic little pot-shots at HD DVD.

916.9.2007 17:23

To whom do Combo discs currently appeal? Average movie buyers have continued to stick with the more affordable DVD-only option, a complete failure of the Trojan Horse plan. HD DVD buyers are upset that they're being forced to pay extra for a "feature" they will rarely (if ever) use. And those who support both HD DVD and Blu-ray would just as soon buy the Blu-ray that's $5 cheaper with the same quality and features. Combo discs put HD DVD in a no-win situation.

Worse than that, the damn discs don't even work half the time! Just the other night, I sat down to watch my recently-purchased HD DVD copy of '300' on my Toshiba HD-XA2 player, and I only made it 45 minutes before the stupid thing froze up and ceased playback. No matter how many times I try to restart the movie, the disc will not play beyond Chapter 14. This is an extremely high-profile release; in fact, it's currently the best-selling title on either the HD DVD or Blu-ray formats, and the disc won't function in a top-of-the-line HD DVD player! Who wants to put up with nonsense like that? I certainly don't.

Let's not kid ourselves that this is an isolated defective disc or a one-time anomaly. Complaints about playback problems on '300' are widespread, and similar compatibility issues have plagued earlier Combo releases such as 'Children of Men', 'The Good Shepherd', 'Happy Feet', 'Superman Returns', and 'The Matrix Reloaded' (copies from the expensive 'Ultimate Matrix Collection' box set which has the bonus features in DVD format on the flip-side of the disc). Some of these will only work properly on second-generation HD DVD players but not first-generation models, and some bizarrely just the opposite. Some function fine on Toshiba's players but not on Microsoft's HD DVD add-on accessory for the XBox 360, and others vice versa. Some don't work right on any player at all.

The excuses are manifold. First we were told that certain titles were authored out of spec for the HD DVD format, but if that were true why would they work on some players but not others (even within the same player model)? Then we were told it was a manufacturing error having to do with the bonding process that seals the two halves of the disc together

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/C..._Went_Wrong/894


Looks like HD-DVD haven't got there disc issue fix either at lease i can rest to sure when i buy a Blu-Ray disc it works.So much for your 1.0 & 2.0 fud.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Sep 2007 @ 17:52

1016.9.2007 17:36
BIGnewb
Inactive

lmfao on the last comment ^^^^^^ so true i love my blu-ray movies because they always work :D

1116.9.2007 18:12
DC5R
Inactive

Originally posted by hughjars:
The one side in this that we actually do 'know' is having real problems is the Blu-ray side who keep delaying their move to a final settled spec (even the much delayed 'profile 1.1' isn't it, no-one knows how long it'll take until the supposedly 'final' 'profile 2.0' will appear.).
Sorry, but what exactly does a spec of one format have to do with a disc of another? There you go again, touting the same shite day in and day out. As I have said before, for me, I could care less about what spec is out there. I watch the movie and just the movie. I don't need to be connected to the studio for extras, I don't need PiP playback. If it was available right now, I wouldn't use it, so for me, the 1.1 and 2.0 profile are pointless. I'm sure some others out there think the same thing. You sure like to hang onto this and bring it up a bunch. I can see why though, because BluRay said from the beginning it would have it, well it doesn't. Get over it already. You are not bringing anything new to the table and please don't say you are trying to inform the public, because it is pretty much the same people on this forum day in and day out. Go preaching to some other choir with the tired talk you present.

I'm not pissed whatsoever if HDDVD comes out with a 51GB disc, good for them. What's the point though? The HDDVD groupies talk smack about BD having 50GB already and it is not needed, but damn that 1 extra GB is the kicker and makes the world a much better place to live. :sarcasm:

1216.9.2007 18:16

Quote:
Originally posted by limelight:
If this goes through then all 25 people who bought an hddvd player are going to have to buy all new players.
Now now, you are just plain asking for a flaming ;)
That's cool, being a smartass is fun work. :)

1316.9.2007 20:12

what gets me is do we even have movies that will take up a 50 gig disc or maybe even 30-35 gig disc? no reason for it as of now unless ur looking to make a data disc.....

1416.9.2007 22:29
slowie
Inactive

why BR dvd is the best? I don't understand. for me, HD dvd is good enough for home theater, I think.

1517.9.2007 7:26

hughjars you speak such true words.

God BR fans are soo god dam funny! Its funny before the 3xdics, thtye bragged taht they had the biggest capacity, now that, that will be taken from them, apparently HD DVD is just plain crap! and obivously BR is better because it has 2 layers and 50GB where as HD DVD has 3 layers and only 1 GB more.

BR fan's you mak eme LOL sooo much! please continue your stupid fanboy comments, as they make me rofl when i'm doing my homework!

hughjars keep up the good work, destroyign these BR fans hopes, and stupid dreams, knock them out of the clouds and back into relality plz!

1617.9.2007 7:30
hughjars
Inactive

You've got to laugh at the way the Blu-ray fanclub pretend to be disgruntled HD DVD owner/users and complain as if any problems with playback at this time relate to HD DVD only.

Both formats (being so new) have plenty of documented 'issues' with various players and discs.....just like regular DVD did when it started out too.
Sadly it goes with the territory.
But to pretend that only HD DVD players and occasional movies have problems is just laughable bias, outright lying or pure ignorance.

HD DVD is well known for rapid firmware issues to correct any issues and/or an outright disc replacement if it's a problem with the disc.

.....and DC5R climb down from your high-horse, huh?

If someone is going to leap in on this whining BS and slamming HD DVD 51gb triple layer discs as if they might cause anybody problems (like any one here knows either way right now) then I think it's perfectly fair to point out the known & documented deficiencies of the competing format.
......and I'd say an unfinished spec (still 2 revisions away from being final) is a damned sight more of an issue for buyers of BD, btw.

(Not that you had a word to say about any of that of course)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Sep 2007 @ 7:37

1717.9.2007 8:30
DC5R
Inactive

Originally posted by hughjars:
......and I'd say an unfinished spec (still 2 revisions away from being final) is a damned sight more of an issue for buyers of BD, btw.

(Not that you had a word to say about any of that of course)
Watch out, my horse is HIGH, too hard to get down.

You would say, but obviously the great numbers of buyers of BD aren't really saying it. So what exactly is your point? I get it already, I'm sure others here also get it, you just seem to want nothing to do with BD, good you made your decision. Life goes on doesn't it? I said good for HDDVD for bringing out a higher capacity disc, I just think it's funny why they are and also why the HDDVD fanboys aren't saying why it's not needed, when many say that about the 50GB BD. A street normally goes 2 ways, yet there are some assclowns that don't want to see the other side at all and quick to call others fanboys. These people are fanboys themselves, fanboys of labeling others fanboys. It's a never ending cycle really.

You can call or think of me as a fanboy, I could care less really. I have BD because I purchased a PS3 as it was an overall better value compared to the 360 when you add in all the extras to get it to do what the PS3 does out the box. I'm not purchasing a HDDVD player because I don't need to have 2 HD formats. If I can't get a certain movie in BD, well I can pick it up in DVD and just upconvert it, though not quite the same. I live in Japan, the 360 is a dead horse here and games can not be found really. They are DVD based which means they are probably region coded, I can't say for sure because I don't own it.

1817.9.2007 8:49
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by DC5R:
I just think it's funny why they are and also why the HDDVD fanboys aren't saying why it's not needed, when many say that about the 50GB BD.
- I just love this fancy-foot work.

That's a straw-man argument if ever there was, cos the HD DVD has never said that.

What the HD DVD side said was rubbish (and it still is) is the BS the Blu-ray side were continually spouting (that you 'needed' 50gb to effect a high quality transfer).

You still don't, as so many excellent HD DVD 30gb transfers prove.....and of course this also highlights the ludicrous blinkered element to the Blu-ray fanclub who prefer to just ignore the fact that the majority of Blu-ray content available right now is out on 25gb single-layer BD25 discs.

HD DVD is merely being given additional capacity for the minority of projects that will benefit (and if things work out also as a PC burning media for the home users).

That's subtly different from your initial claim......but then I suspect you already knew that anyways. :P

Originally posted by DC5R:
I purchased a PS3 as it was an overall better value compared to the 360
- Could care less about game consoles.

Originally posted by DC5R:
I don't need to have 2 HD formats.
- Lots of people will be coming to the same conclusion in the USA, the UK and the rest of Europe.
They will be going with the low cost, complete specs and content ie HD DVD.

Things might be a little different in Japan
(for instance I know for certain of 1 HD DVD exclusive title that is available in Japan on Blu-ray......which isn't quite the 60+ we have here which work the other way around - ie they are claimed to be Blu-ray exclusive but are available internationally on HD DVD)
but outside of Japan HD DVD offers the most available content, the most exclusive content and the largest potential library of content.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Sep 2007 @ 8:50

1917.9.2007 8:53

when these hi-def formats become more mainstream, i really can't see people choosing blu-ray over an hd-dvd player. you'll get the same quality picture for less in hd-dvd. the average joe isn't gonna want to pay more for something if they don't have to. blu-ray = betamax

2017.9.2007 9:02
DC5R
Inactive

I wasn't saying the HDDVD camp (as in the makers) was saying such, I was saying those people that ride the HDDVD nuts were saying so about BD, but not saying the same about the format they are gagging. It definitely goes both ways, I see it on both sides. I know you don't care about game consoles, but I was just expressing why I went BD versus going HDDVD.

Anyways, it is 2am here, have to wake up in 3.5 hours so I am out till another time.

2117.9.2007 14:33
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by DC5R:
I wasn't saying the HDDVD camp (as in the makers) was saying such, I was saying those people that ride the HDDVD nuts were saying so about BD, but not saying the same about the format they are gagging.
- I really don't think that is the case.
In fact whilst it's amusing to see the Blu-ray gang get their panties in a knot over losing their bragging rights the fact is that from the HD DVD side's perspective this isn't the massive all-inportant deal some want to claim it to be (on either side).

If you look on the various forums all reports are that the HD DVD side are very relaxed about this (some are suggesting the 'Twin disc - also approved by the DVD Forum now - is actually the big deal, not the 51gb TL disc) .

The argument previously was always because the Blu-ray fanclub insisted you had to have 50gb to make a really decent HD transfer.
Patently that was and remains completely false - as the large & growing number of excellent HD DVD 30gb transfers prove.

But it's true from the HD DVD POV 51gb is not "needed", similarly neither was 50gb
(and if they could see it the Blu-ray groupies might like to be honest and admit that the majority of Blu-ray releases are, right now, on 25gb single layer BD discs....so clearly eve Blu-ray doesn't 'need' 50gb+ either).

But there's no harm in having it for the small minority of movies that will benefit (stuff like the extended editions of LOTR etc I guess).

Originally posted by DC5R:
Anyways, it is 2am here, have to wake up in 3.5 hours so I am out till another time.
- Get to bed!

3.5hrs?!
My sympathies. ;)

2218.9.2007 0:09

Ah! there's the problem though, some of the new to be released HD-DVDs will have extra content via the intenret good you say?

Bad... Paramount are going to charge extra to get the extra content first so you get to pay extra on top of the orginal HD-DVD price.

I haven't seen any complaining about this yet but it's on some of the HD format sites.

So sure 30gig might be enough but not enough if you have to pay to download extra content if you want to see it.

The problem though HD-DVD doesn't exist all that much in the other markets out side the USA, so while there might be a listing on a website for X movie in a country... that doesn't always mean you can goto your local shop and buy said movie in X country.

2318.9.2007 3:10
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by xtago:
Ah! there's the problem though, some of the new to be released HD-DVDs will have extra content via the intenret good you say?
- Er, no, I don't say that it's a fact.....Blu-ray and HD DVD & their supporting studios all say they want to go down this road.

Originally posted by xtago:
Bad... Paramount are going to charge extra to get the extra content first so you get to pay extra on top of the orginal HD-DVD price.
- Jeeez but this has to be about the lamest 'attack' yet.

This element is not just about HD DVD v Blu-ray.

They'll both charge extra for some of the extra content.....but it's hardly a 'plus point' that Blu-ray can't even finalise and offer what is supposed to be it's final spec.

That's why the studios backing Blu-ray are deeply unhappy about Blu-ray's continuing inability to hurry up and reach the supposedly 'final' BD spec.
There are additional income streams that the studios are very interested in tied up in it.

......and it's not just about chargeable extras either; HD DVD does not have to resort to the laughable waste disc space using fake PiP for instance
(unlike Blu-ray which has so far offered a whole movie along side the main feature with the PiP 'screen' burnt in......one can only wonder if 50gbs would be enough! lol ).

Originally posted by xtago:
I haven't seen any complaining about this yet but it's on some of the HD format sites.
- Well there's a surprise, some unsubstantiated hearsay......and that what, proves something does it?
Feel free to actually offer any facts why dont you?

Which 'extra' (charged for) features are being complained about, hmmmmm?
I'd love to know so we might have some sort of independent look for ourselves.

You see Universal have only just launched their site so I'm calling BS on this......so go ahead, let's see you back this one up with some facts, eh?

Generally speaking tho, some of this stuff will be worthwhile and some not, some will be good value and some not......and what?

You think an entire format stands or falls on whether a content supplier offers a great deal on one of it's functioning features?!

(.....don't bother answering that, it was rhetorical.....but it's obvious that you want to pretend to)

Originally posted by xtago:
So sure 30gig might be enough but not enough if you have to pay to download extra content if you want to see it.
- No, 30gb has been plenty for a large and growing catalogue of HD DVD movies.

.....and you'll find Blu-ray has found 25gb enough for approx 184 of their movies.

http://www.blu-raystats.com/index.php

Originally posted by xtago:
The problem though HD-DVD doesn't exist all that much in the other markets out side the USA, so while there might be a listing on a website for X movie in a country... that doesn't always mean you can goto your local shop and buy said movie in X country.
- LMAO.
Back to this lie, huh?

Go on then, I asked you before and you keep running away from it and avoiding the question.

Which "markets" does HD DVD "not exist in", then?
Cos I can show Amazon graphs showing HD DVD closing the gap (a gap wholly expected after the PS3 launch) in the USA, the UK, Germany and even (perhaps most surprisingly) in Japan.

(.....and you now ditching your previous claim that Blu-ray had already won in these claimed "other markets" - cos you were called on it and can't provide and prove it with actual facts at all - is very very funny)

Anyone watching this with the slightest objectivity can see the entire high def disc market is very tiny and immature.

Both formats together have sold under 3 million discs where the total retail movie disc market was 750 million discs last year alone.

2418.9.2007 12:18

Quote:
The problem though HD-DVD doesn't exist all that much in the other markets out side the USA, so while there might be a listing on a website for X movie in a country... that doesn't always mean you can goto your local shop and buy said movie in X country.
I don't know how often you can find them in local shops in x country but they buy them off of the internet just the same. blue-ray exclusive? and import

2519.9.2007 3:32

Originally posted by xXxBG:
Thats sux for a 51 GB disk to be 3 Layers. Well BLU-RAY still is the BEST. And will always bE!!!
All i want to know is the fact that Blu-Ray and HD DVD how much difference does they have in capacity?

2623.9.2007 11:55

its good to see it expanding it can use the 51GB but over all its not goign to help win against BR however tis price and studio backing will, future proofing it persay is a good thing that can only add to it..

BR is to much to soon and too costly.

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