AfterDawn: Tech news

Toshiba HD-A2 to sell for $98 USD tomorrow at Wal-Mart

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 31 Oct 2007 23:58 User comments (80)

Toshiba HD-A2 to sell for $98 USD tomorrow at Wal-Mart This isnt much of a news article, but just a heads up that Wal-Mart will be selling the Toshiba HD-A2 1080i HD DVD player for $98 USD tomorrow beginning at 8 am.
The price is half of the current lows offered by Circuit City and Amazon, and also marking the first time an HD standalone has fallen below $100 USD which is normally the realm of standard DVD players.

Find more information here:
Wal-Mart Secret Sale

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80 user comments

11.11.2007 1:43

This is a price that real people could afford! Unless the Blu-ray camp can deliver something similarly priced, this could have a big effect on the outcome of the format war.

21.11.2007 1:58

so cheap i can afford another one

...things just keep getting worse for blu-ray. Bye-bye K-Mart and next will be bye-bye Warner

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Nov 2007 @ 2:23

31.11.2007 8:55

This isn't going to kill BD but is a great deal I might consider one at that price. HD must be hurting to drop their price in half hopefully BD will come down to $300 which I would consider as well since that is what I want as my stand alone. I'll get a combo BD drive burner for my PC and rip HD to BD, so I don't need an HD player.

41.11.2007 9:00
OhCrap
Inactive

This sounds like an act of desperation. Plus you know if wally world is selling it, it's a quality product.

51.11.2007 9:06

If other vendors follow suit this could be a big deal.

61.11.2007 9:07
OhCrap
Inactive

I just found this. It states you also get 5 free HDDVD titles through the mail. Here is the link.

http://bfads.net/Walmarts-Secret-Friday-Sale

71.11.2007 10:02
hughjars
Inactive

Incredible value.

This isn't going after Blu-ray anymore, this is taking on regular DVD.

Why would anyone bother with an 'ordinary' DVD player when these Toshiba's do an excellent job at everything an ordinary upscaling DVD player does and they are great HD DVD players?

81.11.2007 10:14

Now were talkin! For this price, we can all get a taste of HD. I will return my phipips upconvert dvd player and get this for 50$ more, then get 5 free movies, and I'll be set.

But if only I can rip the HD movies from renting them. I hope this isnt a desperate measure before this format decides to call it quits and leaves all these 98$ players being used for only 'upconvert'!

91.11.2007 10:34

Originally posted by hughjars:
Incredible value.

This isn't going after Blu-ray anymore, this is taking on regular DVD.

Why would anyone bother with an 'ordinary' DVD player when these Toshiba's do an excellent job at everything an ordinary upscaling DVD player does and they are great HD DVD players?
Dang hughjars, you're right. So much for the $150 DVD/VCR upconvert recorder combo I bought 6 months ago, right? Now I need more HDMI ports!

101.11.2007 10:52
OhCrap
Inactive

Originally posted by c1c:
But if only I can rip the HD movies from renting them. I hope this isnt a desperate measure before this format decides to call it quits and leaves all these 98$ players being used for only 'upconvert'!

This is why I'm sticking with good old standard DVD's for a while. I can't stand the fact you can't copy the HD stuff bluray or HDDVD.
Oh, and sears is going to have the Toshiba HDA3 HD DVD Player for 169.99 on black friday.

http://bfads.net/Sears/Name/Page3

111.11.2007 10:59

Simple. The HD-A3 is out and these A2's are being reduced because of that. That just makes a GREAT opportunity for anyone wanting a fantastic 1080i HD-DVD player for under $100!!! Blue Ray won't be able to touch that for at least a year, and that is bad new for them...

Oh, and for those Wal-Mart haters out there, they sell the PS3. Is that crap hardware too? And Xbox360... and WII...

121.11.2007 11:25

I'm a bit disappointed in the selection for the 5 free movies...

I looked on a few sites, including Toshiba's. Can anyone verify that the A2 is capable (or not) of playing Divx movies? My Samsung upconvert and Phillips DVD players both support it, and I would hate to replace one of those two with a player that doesn't support this format.

131.11.2007 11:35

Will this $100.00 player play normal DVD's as well?

141.11.2007 11:47

It will upconvert your DVD's to new HD, so it can play them. But yeah you are right about DiVX. I was all geeked up about going to return my philips upconvert player for this A2 and now you made me realize I will lose DivX, damn!

I dont want to go back to converting my divx to video-ts DVD-Video, takes too long.

151.11.2007 12:11

Nice, Hdef formats are starting to get their feet wet in the kidde(dvd) pool, now lets see if they can sustain the fight with the lil bastards!

161.11.2007 12:22

Hughjars nailed it why buy DVDís when you can get a high quality player for so cheap.

SProdigy, I would think it would play Divx but there is no logo on the front of the player and Toshibaís Web site doesnít mention it, you would think they would. They are MPEG 4 compatible so again you would think the Divx format would be covered. Iím a little put back that they are still having compatibility issues with old media as stated from there Web site below.

Direct from Toshiba:
HD DVD with high-definition content required for HD viewing. Viewing high-definition content and up-converting DVD content may require an HDCP capable DVI or HDMI input on your display device. Up-conversion of DVD content will result in near HD picture quality. Firmware update may be required for some interactive features depending on content, which may also require an always-on broadband internet connection. Some features may require additional bandwidth. Some recordable media may not be supported. Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS support for up to 5.1 channels (DTS HD support for DTS core only). MP3/WMA audio files not supported. Some current DVDs and CDs may not be compatible. Some Combo Discs and Twin Format Discs may not be compatible. HDMI audio support for PCM only. Because HD DVD is a new format that makes use of new technologies, certain disc, digital connection and other compatibility and/or performance issues are possible. This may, in rare cases, include disc freezing while accessing certain disc features or functions, or certain parts of the disc not playing back or operating as fully intended. If you experience such issues, please refer to the FAQ sections of this site or www.toshibahddvd.com for information on possible work-around solutions or the availability of firmware updates that may resolve your problem, or contact Toshiba Customer Solutions. Some features subject to delayed availability. 1080p capable display required for 1080p output resolution. In some cases, the universal remote control may not operate additional devices or certain features of such devices, in which case, it is suggested that you use the original remote control for the applicable device. While Toshiba has made every effort at the time of publication to ensure the accuracy of the information provided herein, product specifications, configurations, system/component/options availability are all subject to change without notice. *Resolution comparison based on 480i vs. 1080i pixel counts.

From Toshibaís Web site:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/product.asp?model=HD-A2

c1c / OhCrap, I havenít used AnyDVD to rip a HD yet but they state you can with their product is this not true?

171.11.2007 12:22
OhCrap
Inactive

Originally posted by elfman12:
Simple. The HD-A3 is out and these A2's are being reduced because of that. That just makes a GREAT opportunity for anyone wanting a fantastic 1080i HD-DVD player for under $100!!! Blue Ray won't be able to touch that for at least a year, and that is bad new for them...

Oh, and for those Wal-Mart haters out there, they sell the PS3. Is that crap hardware too? And Xbox360... and WII...
The bad thing is, if you want to rent movies for your new HDDVD player forget running down to the local Blockbuster and getting them. Almost every small town in the US has a blockbuster by the way. I know netflix is a possibility but the waits for hd movies for both services are pretty long compared to normal dvds. I'm not a big fan of buying every movie I want to watch. Walmart does sell alot of low end crap that is made specifically for them. But as for wii's, ps3's and xbox360's I would imagine those are the same ones you get elsewhere.

181.11.2007 12:31

Quote:
Originally posted by elfman12:
Simple. The HD-A3 is out and these A2's are being reduced because of that. That just makes a GREAT opportunity for anyone wanting a fantastic 1080i HD-DVD player for under $100!!! Blue Ray won't be able to touch that for at least a year, and that is bad new for them...

Oh, and for those Wal-Mart haters out there, they sell the PS3. Is that crap hardware too? And Xbox360... and WII...
The bad thing is, if you want to rent movies for your new HDDVD player forget running down to the local Blockbuster and getting them. Almost every small town in the US has a blockbuster by the way. I know netflix is a possibility but the waits for hd movies for both services are pretty long compared to normal dvds. I'm not a big fan of buying every movie I want to watch. Walmart does sell alot of low end crap that is made specifically for them. But as for wii's, ps3's and xbox360's I would imagine those are the same ones you get elsewhere.
ya walmart is bad abotu that,if tis not made for them or on a volume discount deal its almost 10% more than any other place,game prices are stupid there, DVD prices aren't to bad, seems wallmarts pricing on Hdvd is 20-30, but finding them can be tricky.

if more 100$ range Hdvd players are sold else where I bet more places will pucker up and start selling the movies too.

191.11.2007 12:43

LOL with you Zippy. That 40gb PS3 contraption should be a WAL-MART EXCLUSIVE!!!

BTW, my "small-town" and surrounding area, which is a fairly large portion of NE Ohio, does not have any Blockbuster stores, not that it would matter considering they are Blu-Ray only.

201.11.2007 12:53

Originally posted by SProdigy:
LOL with you Zippy. That 40gb PS3 contraption should be a WAL-MART EXCLUSIVE!!!

BTW, my "small-town" and surrounding area, which is a fairly large portion of NE Ohio, does not have any Blockbuster stores, not that it would matter considering they are Blu-Ray only.
warmart could get away selling it for 350 and it still would not sell well :P

Sony is trying to fill the price gap and doing it mindlessly, is it so bad to want them to do things without raping features from it?

I mean they can save the same amount of bandwidth by by putting BWC updates in default off position, saving them money while giving users that want it a choice, its all about choice and sony is trying to give to lil for the price they want for it, at 400+ BWC should be default.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Nov 2007 @ 12:57

211.11.2007 12:59

Do you think this Walmart deal will only be available online or in store as well? My Walmarts here dont have HD DVD players on display. What are the 'free' movies to choose from?

221.11.2007 15:07
OhCrap
Inactive

Originally posted by SProdigy:
LOL with you Zippy. That 40gb PS3 contraption should be a WAL-MART EXCLUSIVE!!!

BTW, my "small-town" and surrounding area, which is a fairly large portion of NE Ohio, does not have any Blockbuster stores, not that it would matter considering they are Blu-Ray only.
Every NE Ohio zip code I put into their store locator. Came up with a store within 15 miles. I live in a fairly small town and there are two within 10 miles.

231.11.2007 15:21

C1C, here are the 5 free choices if you didn't see them in the KMart thread.

Category A (choice #1)
Aeron Flux
Babel
The Italian Job

Category B (choice #2)
The Hulk
Pitch Black
The Thing

Category C (choice #3)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
Swordfish
Full Metal Jacket

Category D (choice #4)
Firewall
The Frighteners
U2: Rattle and Hum

Category E (choice #5)
Black Rain
Darkman
Troy

Hardly a chic flick in there, LOL.

241.11.2007 15:22

Quote:
Every NE Ohio zip code I put into their store locator. Came up with a store within 15 miles. I live in a fairly small town and there are two within 10 miles.
Try Youngstown, OH and Warren, OH, and Sharon, PA and New Castle, PA... Closest one is Ellwood City, PA, 11 miles outside of New Castle, or you can venture to Akron or Cleveland area stores, about an hour's drive! (Not exactly good for fuel economy or returning videos!)

Our Blockbusters were franchised and went out between 10-15 years ago! I applaud your efforts though!

251.11.2007 15:39

Quote:
Originally posted by c1c:
But if only I can rip the HD movies from renting them. I hope this isnt a desperate measure before this format decides to call it quits and leaves all these 98$ players being used for only 'upconvert'!

This is why I'm sticking with good old standard DVD's for a while. I can't stand the fact you can't copy the HD stuff bluray or HDDVD.
Oh, and sears is going to have the Toshiba HDA3 HD DVD Player for 169.99 on black friday.

http://bfads.net/Sears/Name/Page3


DVDFab HD Decrypter can rip HD DVD and BR discs and there is a free version, not trial software avaiable. Now all we need are affordable media and burners

261.11.2007 16:54

hey you'all go here for the original specs on this player: http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/dvd/product.asp?model=HD-A2


also here:
http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-i...vd2firmware.asp there is information about an firmware update that brigs the player's firmware version to 2.5.

Also I noticed this FAQ question you may find interesting:
Q1. What does this update do?

A1. This firmware update adds support for 1080p/24Hz output to the HD-A20 and HD-XA2 players. For the HD-A2, HD-A2W, HD-D2, HD-A20 and HD-XA2 players, it adds more on-screen language display options. In addition, this firmware update improves network connectivity for supporting the download of web- enabled network content associated with certain HD DVD discs, and also addresses certain disc playback and HDMI/DVI related issues identified by Toshiba.

and finally here:
http://tacp.toshiba.com/tacpassets-image...ingfirmware.asp
To find out How to check your Firmware Version on your HD DVD Player, so you could see if the player you bought is already updated or if you need to update it.

271.11.2007 20:28
hughjars
Inactive

Blockbuster are part of the Vaicom/Paramount group.

They will be changing tack soon (by Jan), count on it.

The US retail business just 'called' on the high def war, it's HD DVD.

Watch Warner go HD DVD exclusive this Jan.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Nov 2007 @ 20:29

281.11.2007 21:25

Good move by HD-DVD. BD was giving away movies to counter the transformers release and now $98.00 HD-DVD players in the same week Spidy 3 is released. Good to see toshiba is starting to play hardball. Plus Wal-mart giving BD the finger is good news too.

Quote:
This sounds like an act of desperation. Plus you know if wally world is selling it, it's a quality product.
Ya when dvd players hit $20.00 I'm sure it was an act of desperation on their part to.

291.11.2007 21:34

Don't know who asked this but this is going to be in store. Doesn't look like it's going to be on line but In Store only.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 Nov 2007 @ 21:35

301.11.2007 21:39

Please, please tell me you're not falling for this?

They're dumping 50k unsold A2's onto the market to clear them out.

Unfortunately they're also killing any market for 3rd gen HD-DVD players, and any prospect of other CE's producing HD-DVD players.

When manufactures dump stock like this you know somethings up.

They'll sell another 50k players, many to current HD-DVD owners, many to those who won't pay $30 for a HD-DVD movie, but they're killing the future market.

The 40GB PS3 is out this week, they'll sell hundreds of thousands, millions by Christmas, and stock won't be exhausted after a day or two.

One side is being smart and planning for the medium to long term, the other is panicking and chucking limited stock overboard.

311.11.2007 22:20

I checked my local BB and they were out of stock but the sales guy pointed me to the HD-A3 and said, "but these new players at $299 are a great deal." I'm pretty certain that meets the definition of a "bate and switch tactic." Just another reason I hate BB. Hopefully I'll have better luck @my local Wal-Mart tomorrow morning.But something is really fishy about this deal.

322.11.2007 0:18

There not killing the third generation market just trying to dump the little bit of stock left on the shelves. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot? You can get the A3 for $169 on Black Friday to me that's the way to go but I could see buying the A2 for $99 with 5 free movies as well. If you go to Worst Buy they might be $300 and I never trust their sales people, that would be like following the blind, no offence to the blind of course. :)

It is nice that someone looked into firmware revisions and 1080p update that's good news.

332.11.2007 1:56

i remember a year ago when i said i'll buy a hd player when it becomes less than $99. This is better deal! it comes with 5 free movies! Too bad i'm broke! But this is really good deal. My tv only does 1080i anyway. It looks almost the same with 1080p. My eye can't even tell the difference.

342.11.2007 2:57

If I can afford the BETTER technology of Blu Ray (and a 1080p tv to play it on) anybody with a decent job can(i'm enlisted in the Navy). I have the s300 from sony. It's an upconverter and supports firmware upgrades. Which i recently upgraded to 2.6. I have 20 movies on blu ray and my wife just bought 8 more for $10 a piece. Why would somone want to buy inferior technology (HD-DVD)just to save a buck and have to purchase a whole new system in 3 or 4 years. Blu Ray is by no means maxed out yet. It will be able to support any kind of media for years to come. And if for some reason the masses decide to be stupid and Blu Ray goes the way of Beta-Max i guess i'll buy a crap load of blu ray movies off of ebay for next to nothing.

352.11.2007 6:20

Originally posted by ringwar:
If I can afford the BETTER technology of Blu Ray (and a 1080p tv to play it on) anybody with a decent job can(i'm enlisted in the Navy). I have the s300 from sony. It's an upconverter and supports firmware upgrades. Which i recently upgraded to 2.6. I have 20 movies on blu ray and my wife just bought 8 more for $10 a piece. Why would somone want to buy inferior technology (HD-DVD)just to save a buck and have to purchase a whole new system in 3 or 4 years. Blu Ray is by no means maxed out yet. It will be able to support any kind of media for years to come. And if for some reason the masses decide to be stupid and Blu Ray goes the way of Beta-Max i guess i'll buy a crap load of blu ray movies off of ebay for next to nothing.
Keep telling yourself that and continue wasteful spending....


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

362.11.2007 7:13
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Please, please tell me you're not falling for this?
- Now that's what I call the sound of desperation.
LMAO

Originally posted by NexGen76:
They're dumping 50k unsold A2's onto the market to clear them out.
- No.

'They're' also doing excellent deals on the new gen 3 HD A3.

"Dumping".
Hilarious.

Talk about plagerism or a 'party line' going out.

For those that don't know this is lifted almost word for word straight out of that ludicrous cretinous shill Bill Hunt's latest column.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Yeah, cos fully spec'd players @ ultra low prices are so bad for the consumer, eh?

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Unfortunately they're also killing any market for 3rd gen HD-DVD players, and any prospect of other CE's producing HD-DVD players.
- More of that buffoon Hunt's column
(why didn't you just link to it nextgen76?
Then we could all laugh at the source (who once used to pretend to be a 'consumer champion').

Originally posted by NexGen76:
When manufactures dump stock like this you know somethings up.
- When competitors go for the jugular like this (and the largest retailers in the US are in on it too then yes something is very definitely happening).

You see this didn't just happen and it's not 'dumping'.
It's been going on since April (remember the stories about Walmart buying 2 million HD DVD players @ $50 a time)?
http://blogs.zdnet.com/carroll/?p=1683

Originally posted by NexGen76:
They'll sell another 50k players, many to current HD-DVD owners, many to those who won't pay $30 for a HD-DVD movie, but they're killing the future market.
- You really are sounding desperate now you know.

First of all you have no actual idea of how much stock is spread across the US.

But be honest what you really mean is how does Sony think it's ever going to make any money from the Blu-ray format?

Seriously... Sony is losing $200 on the purchase on every PS3 even when they were selling them at $500-$600, and now they're presumably losing up to $300 on PS3's at $400? Granted, the PS3 isn't the only thing going for the Blu-ray, but it is by far the most popular Blu-ray player and supposed to be the Trojan horse for the BDA.

And yes, Toshiba will still make money off of HD DVD, just like Sony still believes it can make money off the PS3 by selling it at a loss. It's termed the "give-away-the-razors, sell-the-blades" strategy first made famous by Gillette. Toshiba is still going to make a lot of money off of this deal.
I'm not even sure if Toshiba is losing money on the HD DVD players, read below...

Originally posted by NexGen76:
The 40GB PS3 is out this week, they'll sell hundreds of thousands, millions by Christmas, and stock won't be exhausted after a day or two.]
- Like I said, you know nothing about the stock level (and given that there are excellent deals on the HD A3 it's pretty ridiculous to try and pin all your hopes on HD A2s selling out fast).

But this is typical Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub double-speak.

If Sony sell the PS3 at a loss and cut prices (even if they gut the thing) that's great and not "dumping" but if anyone else prices aggressively that's terrible and bad for the consumer.

The arrogant tunnel vision is hilarious.

Originally posted by NexGen76:
One side is being smart and planning for the medium to long term, the other is panicking and chucking limited stock overboard.
- .....and when Warner declare for HD DVD in a few weeks we'll all see who the smart money has been on.

This is all just symptomatic of the whole idiotic Blu-ray 'campaign', they have little or nothing to actually 'sell' in terms of how impressive their own 'format' is so they have spent this last year and a half bashing HD DVD.

Now that HD DVD has turned round and answered back and bitten hard they are panicked.
As can be seen with a little look at that laughably inept fanzine back-slapping self-congratulatory - and worst of all - ignorant and intollerant of a word being said against their 'beloved' site Blu-ray.com shows very clearly (the 'we must focus' thread is especially funny & sad).

372.11.2007 7:25

hughjars
HDVD is pulling no punches and Sony and co are suffering from the blows but so far they are not devastating but if sony refuses to block and counter BR is done for.

As for the 40GB unit sadly I see it selling well as much as 500K units world wide but I cant help to think what the back lash will be when they figure out they been duped again by sony, even tho I loath the 40GB unit as it is, it just might be enough to help the brand worm its way back into the market..

382.11.2007 8:37

are u nuts? people that buy movie players dont buy a PS3 and a remote.

392.11.2007 8:41

Originally posted by DoomLight:
are u nuts? people that buy movie players dont buy a PS3 and a remote.
since only 5ish milloin units have sold world wide theres a lot of people waiting on the PS3 to gain a reasonable price.

402.11.2007 9:56

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by DoomLight:
are u nuts? people that buy movie players dont buy a PS3 and a remote.
since only 5ish milloin units have sold world wide theres a lot of people waiting on the PS3 to gain a reasonable price.
Presumably, the word "Blu-Ray" is synonymous with "PlayStation 3" and that could be the death knell for both platforms right there. Case in point, how many stand alone Blu-Ray players has Samsung sold? Outside of the PS3, what are Sony's figures for their stand alone? I'm not seeing a whole lot else advertised for Blu-Ray outside of those $500 players.

The Average Joe off of the street only cares about price, and not "which camp" a studio is in. If HD-DVD players go in more homes, guess which direction the studios will be heading? (And you can't base the number of PS3's sold as support for Blu-Ray; did the consumer buy it as a game console or a home theatre device?)

Wal-Mart has been trying to make a CE push for years, and gain market share on Best Buy, Circuit, Sears, etc. They tried with cheapo brands tailored for their needs and that ultimately did not help them turn the corner. I'm willing to bet that your local Wal-Mart has revamped it's Electronics department lately, to include brands such as Vizio, Phillips, etc. to squeak out shelf space from that Durabrand, Emerson, and Sanyo crap they sell.

It's called better quality products at a cheaper price and Wal-Mart is the king of doing this. Just think about it. Target went Blu-Ray exclusive months ago. Wal-Mart woke up, smelled the coffee and decided they could be "the place" to go for HD-DVD. If they get players in consumers homes, where will you go to buy movies? It's a no-brainer. Also notice they are selling some recent films for $15-$20 on HD-DVD, competitively priced with standard DVD. Hughjars is right, retail just called on HD-DVD. The ball is now in Blu-Ray's court and they need a slam dunk soon.

412.11.2007 10:06
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by SProdigy:
The ball is now in Blu-Ray's court and they need a slam dunk soon.
- I honestly think (from a Blu-ray perspective) that it is worse than that.

They have lost any and all control now.

The horrible truth for Blu-ray is that if HD DVD cannot sell at sub $100/$200 prices then they are in the deepest sh*t with their kit at several multiples of those prices.

If HD DVD does not take off this Q4 (which, thankfully, there is no reason to believe will be the case) then both formats will IMO be fatally wounded.

In that circumstance I could easily see the movie studios quietly wind back their high def output and wait the next 'big thing' (which if this fails will be a long time coming and a long time getting customer acceptance).

422.11.2007 10:36

So what happen when a lot of misinformed consumers get home with this player & then want to buy any Disney,Fox,MGM,Sony,Newline,Buena Vista or Lion gate movie ? that right this player going to have a high return value.Toshiba doesn't info there buyer about HD-DVD only bost about there player being cheap but never bost about studio support which they are lacking bad.

432.11.2007 10:44

Originally posted by SProdigy:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by DoomLight:
are u nuts? people that buy movie players dont buy a PS3 and a remote.
since only 5ish milloin units have sold world wide theres a lot of people waiting on the PS3 to gain a reasonable price.
Presumably, the word "Blu-Ray" is synonymous with "PlayStation 3" and that could be the death knell for both platforms right there. Case in point, how many stand alone Blu-Ray players has Samsung sold? Outside of the PS3, what are Sony's figures for their stand alone? I'm not seeing a whole lot else advertised for Blu-Ray outside of those $500 players.

The Average Joe off of the street only cares about price, and not "which camp" a studio is in. If HD-DVD players go in more homes, guess which direction the studios will be heading? (And you can't base the number of PS3's sold as support for Blu-Ray; did the consumer buy it as a game console or a home theatre device?)

Wal-Mart has been trying to make a CE push for years, and gain market share on Best Buy, Circuit, Sears, etc. They tried with cheapo brands tailored for their needs and that ultimately did not help them turn the corner. I'm willing to bet that your local Wal-Mart has revamped it's Electronics department lately, to include brands such as Vizio, Phillips, etc. to squeak out shelf space from that Durabrand, Emerson, and Sanyo crap they sell.

It's called better quality products at a cheaper price and Wal-Mart is the king of doing this. Just think about it. Target went Blu-Ray exclusive months ago. Wal-Mart woke up, smelled the coffee and decided they could be "the place" to go for HD-DVD. If they get players in consumers homes, where will you go to buy movies? It's a no-brainer. Also notice they are selling some recent films for $15-$20 on HD-DVD, competitively priced with standard DVD. Hughjars is right, retail just called on HD-DVD. The ball is now in Blu-Ray's court and they need a slam dunk soon.
Just on the gaming side I think the PS3 can do 500ishK worth of unit sales with the 40GB unit the question is what next thats not going to help the BR troubles.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

442.11.2007 11:31
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by NexGen76:
So what happen when a lot of misinformed consumers get home with this player & then want to buy any Disney,Fox,MGM,Sony,Newline,Buena Vista or Lion gate movie ?
- The more clued in ones will go on-line for many of those titles on HD DVD or make do with upscaled regular DVD (as they were doing until now).

All ways around it's just the same as what happens with the Blu crowd who can't get from every studio either.

....only with the huge jump in HD DVD player sales we'll shortly be seeing Warner go HD DVD exclusive and people like New Line, Lions Gate and Disney (when the 51gb discs appear) going HD DVD.

The studios will follow the money and right now it's clear that the money and all the retail support is moving decisively towards HD DVD.

Originally posted by NexGen76:
that right this player going to have a high return value.
- If you think anyone is ditching their excellent HD DVD player cos they might miss out on some movies you're fooling yourself.

It's just as likely they'll look at Shrek 3, Stardust or Transformers and be glad they went HD DVD.

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Toshiba doesn't info there buyer about HD-DVD only bost about there player being cheap but never bost about studio support which they are lacking bad.
- Stop kidding yourself.

HD DVD offers the most available content and the most exclusive content.

The rest will follow soon enough.

It is hilarious just how laughably empty & hollow those "we already won" Blu-ray Assoc claims they have been making all year since CES are now, eh?

That's what you get for the incredible level of arrogant condescension towards the consumer that has characterised the whole Blu-ray 'campaign'.

452.11.2007 14:02
hughjars
Inactive

It's just been announced that Best Buy and Circuit City are now offering Toshiba's latest third-generation A3 player for $199, $100 off the original price.

This A3 deal includes 7 free HD DVDs - two of which can be selected instantly and another 5 sent via mail-in offer.

Amazon have just cut the price of their HD A2's to $129.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Nov 2007 @ 15:25

462.11.2007 14:53

What no DIVX support? I like my current Toshiba I got for $50 that plays about anything I download off the net.

472.11.2007 16:26

They should read the small print, only 10 per store wooooo they will be sold out in like less then 10 mins.

482.11.2007 16:51
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by ninjakid:
They should read the small print, only 10 per store wooooo they will be sold out in like less then 10 mins.
- Yeah, you wish everybody had stocks so low. Very clearly.

But you are right in there being no shortage of demand & them selling very very well today.

.......are you trying to say Amazon (who have just chopped their HD A2 price to $129) only have 10 too?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Nov 2007 @ 16:54

492.11.2007 21:53

I picked up a couple of these this morning and two HD-DVD's, too (Big Lebowski and 12 Monkeys each at $15). Set up one of them on my 50" Pioneer 5070 768p plasma (about as good a plasma as exists short of the 1080p Pioneers). Small problem in that my receiver was set up for DD AC-3 and the Toshiba, strangely enough, uses the DTS inputs on the receiver. Proceeded to watch The Big Lebowski, a film I have seen a dozen times on the same TV using a Sony up-converting DVD player on the same HDMI input.

I can see some improvement in image quality (using both 720p and 1080i) vs the up-converted regular DVD, but it is nothing jaw-dropping.

I think that the slow adoption of HD-DVD and Blue-Ray is not just the consequence of a format war. I think it is also a case of modest improvement vs up-converted DVD. I suppose that at screen sizes over 50" or very close viewing distances the quality improvement mught be greater, but most folks are not buying sets that big and in the 50 and below sizes DVD looks plenty good enough.

I think that unless Sony drops their prices to match HD-DVD in the $100 to $200 range HD-DVD will win by default and most folks will mostly use their HD-DVD players to watch upconverted normal DVD's most of the time.

503.11.2007 0:03

You know what will decide it for me. Which ever one has Divx support will have my support. Its pointless in my opinion to buy another dvd player that does not have Divx period thats my deciding factor. No since in bickering back and forth over overkill specs when Divx is the key for me.

513.11.2007 3:01

well i was there at 830 this morning. when i got mine there were about 10 left. seeing is believing. it is head and shoulders above my sony dvd upconvert player i bought last year for $110.00. the picture(up convert standard dvd) is as good as my hidef channels on cable. i cant wait to get a high def dvd to watch. imo its the best bang for the buck. the remote is a little cheap but the picture is great and the audio is pretty good too. it was also very easy to set up.

523.11.2007 12:33

Some of these BR vs HD postings just crack me up! :)

I consider myself a 'video geek' and own more than 2500+ dvd's. Prior to that I was a VHS collector. I remember when DVD vs Divx started and I knew that the DIVX format was a failure from the beginning. Being a huge DISNEY fan, I was a little disappointed that they were exclusive to DIVX, but there was no doubt that divx would fail and eventually Disney would be on DVD. I am now the proud owner of EVERY Disney dvd made.

When the 'next gen' format was announced and it was TWO formats instead of one, I thought.. HERE WE GO AGAIN! Only this time, they were two viable contenders (unlike the DIVX fiasco which was bound to fail from the beginning). With BluRay and HD-DVD both offering very nice features and for the most part they are EQUAL to one another. At that moment, I decided that I would not buy into either until there was a clear winner, or at least until one was at a very reasonable price. With BR being $1000 and HD being more than $500, I didn't think either was very reasonable, plus I never buy into ANY electronic device upon it's initial release, simply because of the various bugs that need to be worked out.

Well, here we are roughly a year-and-a-half or so into this battle and there is really no clear winner to date. HOWEVER, as of yesterday I am now a proud owner of a TOSHIBA HD-DVD player for less than $100. I am also going to get one of those A3's on Black Friday for $169. I may pick up an HD disc or two, but primarily I'm still going to be buying DVD's instead. They are much cheaper and I can play them anywhere! I bought the A2 (and will be buying the A3) with the intention of using them as upconverting dvd players. $100 for an upconverting dvd player is a good deal and I have the option of playing HD if I decide to buy or rent them. Even if HD was the only format out there, I'm NOT paying $25-30 for a movie such as Happy Gilmore when it can be purchased on DVD for $10. Does anyone really care if a typical movie like this is HiDef? I don't! Now, highly visual films like Star Wars, 300, Transformers, etc are another story. Those definitely benefit from a HiDef transfer.

So, even if there is a true winner in the near future, I will still buy standard def versions of certain titles, until the price of HiDef discs come down to the $15-20 dollar range. $30 is just unacceptable to me for a movie unless it's something truly worth that price tag.

I honestly have been pulling for HD-DVD from the beginning, but will obviously buy into Blu Ray if that ends up being the true winner. I just don't think that BR is worth the price tag, and I think tecnically it has the potential for more problems than HD-DVD (at least from what I've read about the technology).

Lastly, the argument about PS3's being the 'saviour' for BluRay, seems ridiculous to me. Yes, there are a lot of units out there, but there are also a lot of users that use it for it's primary function (TO PLAY GAMES) and not for movie watching. I own a PS2, an Xbox, and an Xbox 360, all of which can play DVD's. I have honestly NEVER played a single movie in any of them!! I use an actual DVD player to watch movies on! I have a feeling that there are others out there that do the same. Also, I'm sure a huge portion of those PS3 owners are kids/teenagers that don't have the money (or desire) to go out and buy many (if any) BR movies for $30 bucks a pop (they'd rather save their money for the very expensive games)! Sure, a movie like Spiderman might be purchased for them by there parents, but I don't think the average PS3 customer purchased it to build a large movie collection of OVERPRICED BR discs.

That's all I have to say about the subject. BR fanboys, feel free to attack me if you want. I'm simply stating my opinions on the matter.
If anyone sees the HD-DVD camp as being desperate for dropping player prices to under $200, you are fooling yourself. It is a maneuver that will bring in lots of new buyers, plain and simple. I know lots of people that are not "techno geeks" like most of us on this board. They are 'average joes' who shop at Walmart, only buy dvd's when they are in the "2 for $11" bins, and will not even look at the option of buying a HiDef TV, or HiDef dvd player until the price is right. HD-DVD's camp made a smart move by doing this. What will it take for BR to do the same?

-Rick

533.11.2007 17:03

HD dropping their price is an act of desperation but you will also see BD do the same, for the same reason, this is a good thing for us.

D@mn HD fanboy.... :) Sorry just couldn't resist since I see those kinds of comments ridicules in general however we all use them from time to time.

What killed Divx was the rental scheme they came up with and embraced, their compression scheme is good since it is based on MPEG-4. Like you I donít understand why people love it so much especially as a home player, the only thing Iíd consider it for is compressing a movie for my PocketPC or other hand held device.

Personally Iím not buying DVDís anymore unless they are $10 or less and still Iím holding back. HD, and I donít mean HD-DVD, is so much better then SD why would I waste my monies on a lesser format when a much better one is here. If I continue to buy DVDís Iím only throwing the money away as I will be getting it in one of the HD formats eventually. I have a friend that was still buying VHS movies a short time ago he has finally woke up, a little late I must say. I havenít been able to watch a VHS for long time now.

543.11.2007 17:24

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
HD dropping their price is an act of desperation but you will also see BD do the same, for the same reason, this is a good thing for us.

D@mn HD fanboy.... :) Sorry just couldn't resist since I see those kinds of comments ridicules in general however we all use them from time to time.

What killed Divx was the rental scheme they came up with and embraced, their compression scheme is good since it is based on MPEG-4. Like you I donít understand why people love it so much especially as a home player, the only thing Iíd consider it for is compressing a movie for my PocketPC or other hand held device.

Personally Iím not buying DVDís anymore unless they are $10 or less and still Iím holding back. HD, and I donít mean HD-DVD, is so much better then SD why would I waste my monies on a lesser format when a much better one is here. If I continue to buy DVDís Iím only throwing the money away as I will be getting it in one of the HD formats eventually. I have a friend that was still buying VHS movies a short time ago he has finally woke up, a little late I must say. I havenít been able to watch a VHS for long time now.
isn't gaining ground always a act of desperation?
I mean are not moves like these when one undercuts the other heavly a move to put all there cards on the table?

Sony was bribing off store after store thats more desperate than this is and rankly this is smarter as well get the players to people and market share is yours.

553.11.2007 17:48

Sooo very true! :^)

563.11.2007 17:54

I may be wrong, but I don't think the DIVX players that were out actually used the 'divx compression' that is now so famous! I believe the technology was pretty much the same specs as DVD. There were many problems with the DIVX systems from the beginning. They offered movies for $4.99 and required you to activate it on your player (which had to be connected to a phone line). Once activated, it gave you 48 hours to watch it and then deactivated it. They gave you an option to "permanently" activate it for an additional $14.99, which brings the movie to the $20 price range (equivelant to the price of a dvd). NOW, this all sounds well and good, but here's where the problems began. A disc that was "permanently" activated was only activated on THAT particular player. If you took it to a player in another room, or to a friend's house, it wouldn't work. On top of that, I believe more titles were 'full screen' as opposed to widescreen. To add insult to injury, when they killed this format, they also killed the ability to play those discs that were 'permanently' activated, as the players had to have connection to that service in order to keep them active.

Of course with HDDVD and BluRay, it is a much more level playing field. If BluRay was the only one out there, of coure I'd adopt it eventually (but would wait for the prices to come down dramatically).

With that said... I just came from Best Buy a few minutes ago and bought my 2nd HD-DVD player. I picked up the A3 unit for 199.99 PLUS 9 FREE MOVIES!!! So, I spent a total of $300 this weekend and bought TWO players and 14 movies! For those that don't know, the A3 comes with "300" and the "BOURNE IDENTITY" in the box, plus the 5 FREE mail in movies. BEST BUY is also throwing in ANY 2 regular movies in their store (I picked up BATMAN BEGINS and TRANSFORMERS). Not a bad deal if you ask me!!

--Rick

573.11.2007 17:57

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Sooo very true! :^)
HDVD dosent have that many holes in its boat, and at the most sony only has 3 or 4 more at the end of the day the one to bring the players and discs to the consumer at the cheaper price generally wins.

neither BR or Hdvd are sinking yet and sony has a good 5-8 months to do a real price match before the market sweeps them to shore and right now it looks bad for BR.

583.11.2007 19:53

That's were we disagree, I believe they BOTH will be around for some time and since BD has a bigger market potential it won't be going away even if HD gets a jump on them. HD compresses their audio for a reason, BD doesn't, and doesnít need to especially when they go to several layers. In the long run both HD & BD will be going away as they are working on more dense formats as we speak but for now expect to see both of these formats around for a decade or so.

I know all of the cheapsters want HD but cheap doesn't make it better, at least in this case, BD isn't really that much more and as they get the MFG cost down they will be very closely priced but you'll get a lot more with BD.

RickWJ324, that is a great deal way to go, you should be able to enjoy that for some time and getting 14 movies too, wow!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Nov 2007 @ 19:59

593.11.2007 20:14

MrMovie... I also believe that both will be around for some time! Which is a shame, because I'd really like to see a clear winner soon, which would mean ALL studios supporting one format!! Even though I'm in the HD-DVD camp right now, doesn't mean I'm anti-BluRay. I just went with a hunch and the price is right! I haven't bought a single HD-DVD movie yet, but the 14 free movies I got with the players was too good a deal to pass up. If HD-DVD loses, I won't cry about it. I'll still have two decent players that were very cheap to me and I'll be able to play my 2500+ dvd's that I have on these players and upconvert them to 1080i.
It would really be interesting to see what would happen if ALL studios made ALL movies available on both formats. Who do you think would be winning right now? :)
--Rick

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
That's were we disagree, I believe they BOTH will be around for some time and since BD has a bigger market potential it won't be going away even if HD gets a jump on them. HD compresses their audio for a reason, BD doesn't, and doesnít need to especially when they go to several layers. In the long run both HD & BD will be going away as they are working on more dense formats as we speak but for now expect to see both of these formats around for a decade or so.

I know all of the cheapsters want HD but cheap doesn't make it better, at least in this case, BD isn't really that much more and as they get the MFG cost down they will be very closely priced but you'll get a lot more with BD.

RickWJ324, that is a great deal way to go, you should be able to enjoy that for some time and getting 14 movies too, wow!

603.11.2007 20:23

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
That's were we disagree, I believe they BOTH will be around for some time and since BD has a bigger market potential it won't be going away even if HD gets a jump on them. HD compresses their audio for a reason, BD doesn't, and doesnít need to especially when they go to several layers. In the long run both HD & BD will be going away as they are working on more dense formats as we speak but for now expect to see both of these formats around for a decade or so.

I know all of the cheapsters want HD but cheap doesn't make it better, at least in this case, BD isn't really that much more and as they get the MFG cost down they will be very closely priced but you'll get a lot more with BD.

RickWJ324, that is a great deal way to go, you should be able to enjoy that for some time and getting 14 movies too, wow!
oh trust me I wont be surprised if this drags past 010.

In order for sony to gain ground here they need to do soemthign drastic in a few months, they don't they will start waning and it might be to late then, its still 2+ years before anythign is done but it looks really bad for BR right now.

613.11.2007 20:38

RickWJ324, I understand your plight but the two formats will be no more difference then +/- DVD formats. With combo drives already out there who cares what format it is as long as you get what you want as cheap as you can. Having both formats has caused such a competition that the prices are coming down quick and even DVD format are going to 3 layers now to compete, which Zippy misrepresented in another post.

Zippy if you read in that other post you'll see its not just Sony that makes BD devices and I really don't agree with your doom and gloom views, but don't get me wrong I like you and normally agree with you so please don't take this or my other post too personally. You're a great guy and offer a lot of good knowledge to this forum plus some pretty good common sense.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Nov 2007 @ 20:40

623.11.2007 21:08

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
RickWJ324, I understand your plight but the two formats will be no more difference then +/- DVD formats. With combo drives already out there who cares what format it is as long as you get what you want as cheap as you can. Having both formats has caused such a competition that the prices are coming down quick and even DVD format are going to 3 layers now to compete, which Zippy misrepresented in another post.

Zippy if you read in that other post you'll see its not just Sony that makes BD devices and I really don't agree with your doom and gloom views, but don't get me wrong I like you and normally agree with you so please don't take this or my other post too personally. You're a great guy and offer a lot of good knowledge to this forum plus some pretty good common sense.
Sony is heading the BR movement one could say its more their baby than anyone else's, but besides that you can't ignore the damage being done to BR this holiday season, will be be over in a year, doubtful, sony will have to lead BR to cheaper players and prices in order to to gain market share without that they will only start to linger.

This move by HDVD will give them a better share of the Hdef market for a while and it will last until BR counters it and that can only be done with better deals and lower prices.

For the lay man price comes before everythign thus why it needs to be cheap.

633.11.2007 21:25

Third generation BDís will be around $300 soon which will support 50GB discs. This will be in time for Christmas so Iíve read. Unfortunately our economy is not the best so this may still be too high for the average person especially when you can get a third generation HD for $170, so I think your right HD will have the leverage this holiday season. And with the average person not aware of the difference between HD and BD they will most probably buy the cheaper unit.

If people are going to spend big money on anything it will be HDTVís, not players at least at first.

643.11.2007 21:46

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Third generation BDís will be around $300 soon which will support 50GB discs. This will be in time for Christmas so Iíve read. Unfortunately our economy is not the best so this may still be too high for the average person especially when you can get a third generation HD for $170, so I think your right HD will have the leverage this holiday season. And with the average person not aware of the difference between HD and BD they will most probably buy the cheaper unit.

If people are going to spend big money on anything it will be HDTVís, not players at least at first.
Frankly there is no difference in BR and HDVD not with the 51GB single sided discs that are so very close to market end any real difference in the formats not to mention by the time they hit the market they will be as much or cheaper than the BR50 GB discs, so size dose not matter as much as price and if HDVD remains the lower priced format for acouple years they win.

BR is nice but it can not beat a cheaper "like" alternative, not if its 60% or less the price, I wait for what BR dose next, lets hope they don't cock it up with some retarded off the wall moeny scheme from sony yes men......

654.11.2007 0:18

Frankly there is a difference a couple of them. A BD disc can hold 25GB/layer where as HDís typical size is 15GB/layer or possibly 17GB/layer on a 3 layer disc. So at best case for HD, BD retains 1.47x more capacity which to me makes size matter. However this isnít the only significant difference BD is capable of high bitrates which translates to sharper picture and sound quality. Now you can compare 3 layer discs to 2 layer discs and say that is a fare comparison but I would beg to differ, itís not the same, apples to apples BD is better! On the fare side it does carry more DRM garbage since it also incorporates BD+ and BD-ROM Mark.

Technical specifications
The current specification version for HD DVD-ROM and HD DVD-Rewritable is version 1.0. The specification for HD DVD-R is currently at 0.9; the HD DVD-RAM specification is not yet finalized.

Disc structure
HD DVD-ROM has a single-layer capacity of 15 GB, a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB, and a 51 GB single-sided triple-layer disc (which uses slightly bigger 17 GB layers), approved in September 2007 by the DVD Forum. Toshiba has claimed that all existing and future players should be compatible with the triple layer.

A 51 GB triple-layer preliminary spec has been approved. However, no movies are currently scheduled for this disc type.

As of October 30, 2007, 327 HD DVD titles have been released in the USA.[1] As of September 15, 2007, 133 HD DVD titles have been released in Japan, while 21 titles pending to be released.[2]

The primary rival to Blu-ray Disc is HD DVD. At the moment, Blu-ray Disc has the advantage in maximum disc capacity with 50 GB, over HD DVD's 30 GB. However, in September 2007 the DVD Forum approved the triple-layer, single-sided 51 GB HD DVD-ROM in a preliminary specification. It is unknown at this time whether the final specification will be compatible with current players. or when it will be released. As of September 2007 40% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB disc and 60% use the 25 GB disc while almost all HD DVD movies are in the 30 GB dual layer format.

HD DVD-R and HD DVD-RW has a single-layer capacity of 15 GB, a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. The HD DVD-RAM has a single-layer capacity of 20 GB. Like the original DVD format, the data layer of an HD DVD disc is 0.6 mm below the surface physically protecting the data layer from damage. The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is 0.65, compared with 0.6 for DVD. All HD DVD players are backward compatible with DVD and CD.


Physical size      Single layer capacity        Dual layer capacity 
12 cm                 single sided 15 GB                 30 GB 
12 cm                 double sided 30 GB                 60 GB 
 8 cm                 single sided 4.7 GB                9.4 GB 
 8 cm                 double sided 9.4 GB                18.8 GB

Read mechanism: 1x@36 Mbit/s & 2x@72 Mbit/s and so onÖ.

Maximum bitrate           BD          HD            DVD
Raw data transfer   53.95 Mbit/s   36.55 Mbit/s   11.08 Mbit/s
Audio+Video         48.0 Mbit/s    30.24 Mbit/s   10.08 Mbit/s
Video               40.0 Mbit/s    29.4 Mbit/s    9.8 Mbit/s

Here is an interesting artical which suggests HD will be gaining some ground in the so called battle.

October 26, 2007
HD-DVD expected to close the gap on Blu-ray


Blu-ray DVD titles outsold rival HD-DVD titles by almost 2-to-1 in the first nine months of the year, but analysts expect additional HD-DVD support and new hit releases to "transform" the high-definition DVD battle score in the fourth quarter.

Home Media Research, a division of Home Media Magazine, said on Tuesday total U.S. sales of Blu-ray discs, using a Sony-backed technology, totaled 2.6 million units from January 1 through September 30, versus 1.4 million HD-DVD discs sold.

HD-DVD was developed by Toshiba. It is backed by Microsoft as well as film studios like Time Warner's TWX.N Warner Bros.

The division in Hollywood grew deeper in August when Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG signed exclusivity deals to distribute their next-generation discs on HD-DVD format for the next 18 months.

Gerry Kaufhold, analyst with In-Stat research firm, believes newly released HD-DVD titles with new advanced web-enabled features, such as Paramount's Transformers, will help the HD-DVD camp in the fourth quarter.

Paramount Home Video said that Transformers had the biggest debut of any high-definition titles, selling over 100,000 HD-DVDs on October 16, its first day of release.

Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research, also said the 18-month period of exclusivity for HD-DVDs by Paramount and DreamWorks should strengthen HD-DVD's hand this quarter.

"This definitely smooths out the edge that Blu-ray had in exclusive titles and it very much strengthens HD-DVD's hand in the fourth quarter," he said, but still expects Blu-ray will lead for the year overall.

Adams predicts that for 2007 overall, consumers will spend $US186 million purchasing Blu-ray discs, versus $US91 million for HD-DVD.

Walt Disney, Sony, News Corp's 20th Century Fox, and Lions Gate Entertainment are exclusively in the Blu-ray camp.

Hollywood and electronics manufacturers had hoped new high-definition DVDs, with better picture quality and more capacity would revive the slowing $US24 billion home DVD market.

But like the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, the DVD standards war has slowed adoption and created customer confusion. It has also raised the likelihood it will be years before next-generation players become standard equipment.

Since both formats launched in the spring of 2006, an estimated 4.98 million high-definition discs have been sold, including 3.01 million in Blu-ray and 1.97 million in HD-DVD through the end of September, according to Home Media.

One big factor giving Blu-ray an edge has been the popularity of Sony's PlayStation 3 game consoles, which also include a Blu-ray disc drive.

"It's going to be 2008 before the dust will really starts to settle. For now, its like watching a yacht race," said Kaufhold, who expects the standards battle will lead more consumers to dual DVD players such as those made by South Korea's LG Electronics, which supports both Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

Samsung Electronics is expected to market a dual format player later this year, ahead of the holiday shopping season.

Reuters
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Nov 2007 @ 0:32

664.11.2007 0:40

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Frankly there is a difference a couple of them. A BD disc can hold 25GB/layer where as HDís typical size is 15GB/layer or possibly 17GB/layer on a 3 layer disc. So at best case for HD, BD retains 1.47x more capacity which to me makes size matter. However this isnít the only significant difference BD is capable of high bitrates which translates to sharper picture and sound quality. Now you can compare 3 layer discs to 2 layer discs and say that is a fare comparison but I would beg to differ, itís not the same, apples to apples BD is better! On the fare side it does carry more DRM garbage since it also incorporates BD+ and BD-ROM Mark.

Technical specifications
The current specification version for HD DVD-ROM and HD DVD-Rewritable is version 1.0. The specification for HD DVD-R is currently at 0.9; the HD DVD-RAM specification is not yet finalized.

Disc structure
HD DVD-ROM has a single-layer capacity of 15 GB, a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB, and a 51 GB single-sided triple-layer disc (which uses slightly bigger 17 GB layers), approved in September 2007 by the DVD Forum. Toshiba has claimed that all existing and future players should be compatible with the triple layer.

A 51 GB triple-layer preliminary spec has been approved. However, no movies are currently scheduled for this disc type.

As of October 30, 2007, 327 HD DVD titles have been released in the USA.[1] As of September 15, 2007, 133 HD DVD titles have been released in Japan, while 21 titles pending to be released.[2]

The primary rival to Blu-ray Disc is HD DVD. At the moment, Blu-ray Disc has the advantage in maximum disc capacity with 50 GB, over HD DVD's 30 GB. However, in September 2007 the DVD Forum approved the triple-layer, single-sided 51 GB HD DVD-ROM in a preliminary specification. It is unknown at this time whether the final specification will be compatible with current players. or when it will be released[99] As of September 2007 40% of Blu-ray titles use the 50 GB disc and 60% use the 25 GB disc[100] while almost all HD DVD movies are in the 30 GB dual layer format.

HD DVD-R and HD DVD-RW has a single-layer capacity of 15 GB, a dual-layer capacity of 30 GB. The HD DVD-RAM has a single-layer capacity of 20 GB.[39] Like the original DVD format, the data layer of an HD DVD disc is 0.6 mm below the surface physically protecting the data layer from damage. The numerical aperture of the optical pick-up head is 0.65, compared with 0.6 for DVD. All HD DVD players are backward compatible with DVD and CD.


Physical size      Single layer capacity        Dual layer capacity 
12 cm                 single sided 15 GB                 30 GB 
12 cm                 double sided 30 GB                 60 GB 
 8 cm                 single sided 4.7 GB                9.4 GB 
 8 cm                 double sided 9.4 GB                18.8 GB

Read mechanism: 1x@36 Mbit/s & 2x@72 Mbit/s and so onÖ.

Maximum bitrate           BD          HD            DVD
Raw data transfer   53.95 Mbit/s   36.55 Mbit/s   11.08 Mbit/s
Audio+Video         48.0 Mbit/s    30.24 Mbit/s   10.08 Mbit/s
Video               40.0 Mbit/s    29.4 Mbit/s    9.8 Mbit/s


yes BR is alil faster and has more space per layer but that dose not make up for the price, and the price will decide the winner in the end.

674.11.2007 0:50

I don't think so I think capacity and speed will be a big factor but you also marketing lies and pigeon holing businesses will enter into the mix. I think when the BlueViolet laser comes down in price, price will no longer be a factor and that will happen. But not only from a movie stance, BD can be used as a backup tool for administrators and even end users amongst other stuff. The market potential in much bigger for BD then HD and your 3 layer disc I believe is a special situation try 7 layers and see if the can still maintain the 17GB capacity and a quality bitrate, I don't think it will happen.

684.11.2007 1:02

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
I don't think so I think capacity and speed will be a big factor but you also marketing lies and pigeon holing businesses will enter into the mix. I think when the BlueViolet laser comes down in price, price will no longer be a factor and that will happen. But not only from a movie stance, BD can be used as a backup tool for administrators and even end users amongst other stuff. The market potential in much bigger for BD then HD and your 3 layer disc I believe is a special situation try 7 layers and see if the can still maintain the 17GB capacity and a quality bitrate, I don't think it will happen.
So? the movie indutry itself is not interested in anything above 50GB and the 100GB BR discs are still lab only and overly fragile for the consumer market, BR dose have the spec but it dosent have what the consumer market needs the most price to cost, if the main players for BR come down 100$ to the 200-300 range by end of next year Hdvd will already be in the 50-150 range price will be a looming issue more than ever.

BR needs to be cheap it might can wade through until it can evenly price match but by then dual players will probably be 300$(by 09/010).

still BR is up for its move lets hope its a grand one.

694.11.2007 1:02

The Hitachi is 1000GB in capacity you forgot a zero in there, BIG difference. And again I think your speculations are off but at any rate until it happens it's a mode point. The fact is that even though you say price is the issue, it really hasn't been so far as BD has had a better year then HD. But regardless even though I prefer BD and say it's better it is good to see HD picking up the pace. I will buy both personally but for my computer BD will be my burner and I will use a HD-DVDROM for reading HD discs.

704.11.2007 2:05

Tonight I saw something that will play the biggest factor in all this. I work for a well known retailer and this lady came back for the second time returning a movie that she bought. "It just won't play in my DVD player she said" As I looked at the one she brought back (BlueRay) I was like do you have a BlueRay DVD player? And she game me the deer in the head light look. She had no clue what HD in general was about.

Until the normal consumer gets a clue what this is all about, things will go no where.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Nov 2007 @ 2:06

714.11.2007 8:32

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
The Hitachi is 1000GB in capacity you forgot a zero in there, BIG difference. And again I think your speculations are off but at any rate until it happens it's a mode point. The fact is that even though you say price is the issue, it really hasn't been so far as BD has had a better year then HD. But regardless even though I prefer BD and say it's better it is good to see HD picking up the pace. I will buy both personally but for my computer BD will be my burner and I will use a HD-DVDROM for reading HD discs.
and its something the consumer market will never see, making it a moot point.

724.11.2007 10:50

Well it looks like we just aren't going to agree. I believe our differences are Iím looking at the big picture and your thinking short term. There were people that said we would never break the 640K limit with PCís years ago and you would never need a bigger drive then 10MBís, these people were short sited obviously. You say a Terabyte drive will not see the consumer market but you are way off here, it will happen. It will be 5 years or better before it happens, at least, but the time will come and honestly if it they were here now it could be used. I could take an array of them and make a video server, besides the backup tool side of things and again these are only a couple of ways it could be utilized. Like Iíve said prior it isnít always about cost sometimes other things are the driving force.

I do believe that AOD/DVD Forum is making a good move by dropping their prices to the $100 to $200 range this will capture the eyes of many people over the holiday and their sales should sky rocket, I hope.

734.11.2007 11:21

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Well it looks like we just aren't going to agree. I believe our differences are Iím looking at the big picture and your thinking short term. There were people that said we would never break the 640K limit with PCís years ago and you would never need a bigger drive then 10MBís, these people were short sited obviously. You say a Terabyte drive will not see the consumer market but you are way off here, it will happen. It will be 5 years or better before it happens, at least, but the time will come and honestly if it they were here now it could be used. I could take an array of them and make a video server, besides the backup tool side of things and again these are only a couple of ways it could be utilized. Like Iíve said prior it isnít always about cost sometimes other things are the driving force.

I do believe that AOD/DVD Forum is making a good move by dropping their prices to the $100 to $200 range this will capture the eyes of many people over the holiday and their sales should sky rocket, I hope.
The only trouble I see is the war will end in less than 5 years with the cheapest being the winner, if BR can fight DVD as HDVD is setting up to do in the next 10 months more power to them but I do not see it happening in 20 months much less 10.

Once the Hdef format prices get in the range of DVD the time needed to satstruate the market quickens and the war will have its victor, the 1TB disc is nice but will take almost 8 years to come down to the price of DVD at which time BR might be a memory, altho with dual player technology it could easily make a come back Mmmmmmm its possible in 8+ years but for he next 3 BR needs to effect lower prices and start fighting DVD directly.

frankly for me the only difference in BR and HDVD is price and price is the key in this if they can not lay a good foundation for the 1TB disc then its all for nought and the only way to do this is start fighting HDVD on price and to a extent DVD.

I see a good year for BR coming they have to counter HDVD and they will do so enough to sustatian their growth however without lowering the player price soon(next 20 months) they will start to lose momentum.

744.11.2007 13:45

I posted on here yesterday that I received 14 free movies for buying 2 players. Well this morning, Best Buy added yet another freebie disc so I went in today and got the extra disc. So, for $300.00, I bought into the HD DVD format and received the following:

Toshiba A2 player w/ 5 movies
Toshiba A3 player w/ 10 movies!!
Here are the movies I got in store:
1)Batman Begins
2)Superman Returns
3)Transformers
Got these in the A3 box:
4)300
5)Bourne Identity
Mail in titles I picked:
6)The Italian Job
7)Babel
8)Pitch Black
9)The Thing
10)Full Metal Jacket
11)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
12)The Frighteners
13)Firewall
14)Darkman
15)Troy
The way I see it, the 15 movies would cost more than $300, so basically the 2 players were free! :)

754.11.2007 22:07

Originally posted by RickWJ324:
I posted on here yesterday that I received 14 free movies for buying 2 players. Well this morning, Best Buy added yet another freebie disc so I went in today and got the extra disc. So, for $300.00, I bought into the HD DVD format and received the following:

Toshiba A2 player w/ 5 movies
Toshiba A3 player w/ 10 movies!!
Here are the movies I got in store:
1)Batman Begins
2)Superman Returns
3)Transformers
Got these in the A3 box:
4)300
5)Bourne Identity
Mail in titles I picked:
6)The Italian Job
7)Babel
8)Pitch Black
9)The Thing
10)Full Metal Jacket
11)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
12)The Frighteners
13)Firewall
14)Darkman
15)Troy
The way I see it, the 15 movies would cost more than $300, so basically the 2 players were free! :)
But why would you do that when you can get a Blu-ray player for $400 with 5 movies! *yes that was sarcasm* :)

764.11.2007 22:15

Quote:
Originally posted by RickWJ324:
I posted on here yesterday that I received 14 free movies for buying 2 players. Well this morning, Best Buy added yet another freebie disc so I went in today and got the extra disc. So, for $300.00, I bought into the HD DVD format and received the following:

Toshiba A2 player w/ 5 movies
Toshiba A3 player w/ 10 movies!!
Here are the movies I got in store:
1)Batman Begins
2)Superman Returns
3)Transformers
Got these in the A3 box:
4)300
5)Bourne Identity
Mail in titles I picked:
6)The Italian Job
7)Babel
8)Pitch Black
9)The Thing
10)Full Metal Jacket
11)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
12)The Frighteners
13)Firewall
14)Darkman
15)Troy
The way I see it, the 15 movies would cost more than $300, so basically the 2 players were free! :)
But why would you do that when you can get a Blu-ray player for $400 with 5 movies! *yes that was sarcasm* :)
Wow... you are absolutely correct! Do you think I can get my money back? ;)

775.11.2007 17:12

Originally posted by RickWJ324:
Quote:
Originally posted by RickWJ324:
I posted on here yesterday that I received 14 free movies for buying 2 players. Well this morning, Best Buy added yet another freebie disc so I went in today and got the extra disc. So, for $300.00, I bought into the HD DVD format and received the following:

Toshiba A2 player w/ 5 movies
Toshiba A3 player w/ 10 movies!!
Here are the movies I got in store:
1)Batman Begins
2)Superman Returns
3)Transformers
Got these in the A3 box:
4)300
5)Bourne Identity
Mail in titles I picked:
6)The Italian Job
7)Babel
8)Pitch Black
9)The Thing
10)Full Metal Jacket
11)Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
12)The Frighteners
13)Firewall
14)Darkman
15)Troy
The way I see it, the 15 movies would cost more than $300, so basically the 2 players were free! :)
But why would you do that when you can get a Blu-ray player for $400 with 5 movies! *yes that was sarcasm* :)
Wow... you are absolutely correct! Do you think I can get my money back? ;)
What do u need 2 HD DVD Players for? And they arent free since you got the *free movies. Would you really buy those movies if they weren't *free? It would be cool to sell one of those players on ebay and keep the movies. Ah!


785.11.2007 19:40

Originally posted by c1c:
What do u need 2 HD DVD Players for?
Ummmmm... because I watch movies in more than one room?!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2007 @ 22:00

796.11.2007 10:37

Quote:
It would be cool to sell one of those players on ebay and keep the movies. Ah!

Lots of people already doing that.

8011.11.2007 16:46

Shame that i am in OZ hey i dont get the offer here...

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