AfterDawn: Tech news

Microsoft defends HD DVD support

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 06 Nov 2007 10:40 User comments (88)

Microsoft defends HD DVD support Last week, at the Blu-ray Disc Festival in Los Angeles, 20th Century Fox president Mike Dunn took shots at a company he characterized as an 800 pound gorilla looking for customer confusion to spark online media sales. It was a thinly veiled reference to HD DVD supporter Microsoft, and later in the week a Microsoft representative responded, saying “The [Blu-ray] camp’s claims about Microsoft’s desire to have a format war are baseless.” Kevin Collins, director in the Microsoft Consumer Media Technology Group said Microsoft has over 100 people working on HD DVD interactivity and we believe that HD DVD is the next-generation optical format.”
Collins said the company's decision to back HD DVD was a result of purely pragmatic concerns such as lower disc manufacturing costs and mandated managed copying, which is supposed to make it possible to exercise some fair use rights without compromising DRM concerns. On the subject of copying, he said “AACS today is rapidly approaching the ‘final agreement’ that will start to make this available for customers, though I do not have a firm timeline on this.” He added, “The key fact is that Microsoft believed that a next-generation format should be ‘consumer friendly’ and at the time of the decision, only HD DVD supported this.”

He also addressed the decision not to make HD DVD a standard feature for the Xbox 360. “If you look historically at the attach rates (i.e. the number of DVDs purchased per DVD player) you will see that game consoles have a single-digit attach rate, while dedicated DVD players have an attach rate in the mid-20s,” said Collins. Microsoft knew if we put in an HD DVD drive that we would have to raise costs and disenfranchise our customers (that are primarily gamers) as the unit would become too expensive.”

To illustrate this he pointed out the sales gap between Nintendo's Wii, which debuted at a significantly lower price than either the Xbox 360 or PS3 (and has no next-gen media support) and subsequently outsold both by a considerable margin. Microsoft recently introduced a bare bones version of the Xbox 360, called the Arcade Bundle, to close the price gap with Nintendo.

Source: Home Media Magazine

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88 user comments

16.11.2007 11:00

good point about the wii outselling both, and not being 'next gen' (IMO it is) but im sure other factors contribute to its sells..
i believe MS should lower the price of the add-on quick to compete with the $99-ish stand-alones as well...if it was $100 i'd probably get 2 or 3 add-on's as gifts for christmas haha

26.11.2007 12:24
nobrainer
Inactive

the problem with blu-ray is the drm lock-ins, BD+ is the most anti consumer drm ever created far more so than sony's, secuROM or their xcp rootkit and far worse than starforce, but this level of drm with ability to make it impossible to use the media on other devices on fair use, is what the MPAA (sony, disney, fox) want, which is why blu-ray is still region coded so global price fixing can continue.

imho, both hd-dvd and blu-ray are bad for consumers because of HDCP, HDMI, of which was forced on us all by the MPAA and are only in place to stop backups & fair use.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Nov 2007 @ 13:37

36.11.2007 13:33

Theres nothing wrong with HDVD for the most part, BR dose have issues with BD+ and price, in the end price will determine the outcome of this.

As for copy protection it will be hacked even if its illicit because the consumer needs their backups to be protected from the greedy corporations.

46.11.2007 14:26

Its funny that the big corporations still push us to buy BR or HdDVD because of its storage capacity and or quality. Yet they still sell their Musicians music on CD's and even software still comes on CD's. Yes, some are moving to DVD but none have utilized its own BL or HdDVD, but for some reason they continue to think we may need to store our files on a 50 gig disc that will take 10 hours to burn ( Wait isnt it Illegal to store music and or movies, So why do we need 50 gigs??).

They could change the CD's to a better quality High Def format the big corporations wont because of cost(So I have to rip and burn it to this format, Illegal). And yet I'm supposed to drop $999 on a BR player or $199 on a HD player. No thank you I will stick to what works just as good and isn't going to cause me to Mortgage a house.

My point here is that if they want change then they need to make it themselves. Don't just put the products on the market and then block us with this DRM crap from utilizing it to its fullest potential.


This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Nov 2007 @ 14:28

56.11.2007 16:13

here we go.. *sigh*

66.11.2007 16:35

Paramount took $150 million to back HD-DVD but lost $500 Million in Blu-ray sales! LOL. Who inked that deal??? Does he still have a job? Well, whom ever it was, we know he can't add!

Let's do some simple math for Paramount

7+ Million Blu-Ray players sold world wide! Transformers would have easily sold 6 million units by Christmas 07. EASILY!!! Add that to all the other titles Paramount would have sold on BD. Now Minus all the money Paramount will lose by missing the 2007 Holiday Blu-ray-Season (Q4 07). Also minus the money Paramount will lose on all the leftover HD-DVD discs there will be in 2 years. What does all that equal??? Paramount has NO clue! They are following a company (Microsoft) that has NEVER turned a profit in the videoGame industry! That's what this whole BD/HD war is about. It's about Microsoft battling Sony.

Paramount got dragged into the battle. Wow, Paramount really got Dooped!! Microsoft doesn't care because they have an endless amount of capital. M$ can recover from almost any loss. Can Paramount?

If Paramount misses the 2008 Holiday Blu-ray-season (Q4 2008) they might not be able to fully recover. The other movie Studios will take over!

Same goes for Universal. Giving up the Holiday season for no reason. Dumb!

76.11.2007 16:38

Techgadgets:

Hitachi has announced a new Blu-ray disc that has the capacity to store up to 100GB of data.

The four-layer Blu-ray disc utilizes a standard Blu-ray drive optical head, which has been enhanced to read and write data across the four 25GB layers.

Apparently, the existing Blu-ray drives will only need a firmware upgrade to be compatible with the latest 100GB disc. Earlier, many companies have come up with 100GB multi-layer discs. However, they used a specially developed optical head to read the disc.

The company said that they are currently working on modifying the signal quality of its quad-layer technology before releasing commercially. In addition, Hitachi is also planning to develop an eight-layer Blu-ray Disc that would be capable of holding 200GB data.

86.11.2007 16:47

Originally posted by gleone:
Techgadgets:

Hitachi has announced a new Blu-ray disc that has the capacity to store up to 100GB of data.

The four-layer Blu-ray disc utilizes a standard Blu-ray drive optical head, which has been enhanced to read and write data across the four 25GB layers.

Apparently, the existing Blu-ray drives will only need a firmware upgrade to be compatible with the latest 100GB disc. Earlier, many companies have come up with 100GB multi-layer discs. However, they used a specially developed optical head to read the disc.

The company said that they are currently working on modifying the signal quality of its quad-layer technology before releasing commercially. In addition, Hitachi is also planning to develop an eight-layer Blu-ray Disc that would be capable of holding 200GB data.
link or it didnt happen :P

Its good BR is pioneering space however its its not cost effective tis dead int he water, I figure BR can only cost 50% more than HDVD in the long run to sustain itself if it wants the market it will need to go for heavy price cuts.

BR can get by being a bit more costly but if its too much the consumer market will ignore it.

96.11.2007 17:03

Echos his earlier comments.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=261297


Some factual issues. Sony isn’t the only one making BD50 discs, etc.

http://www.emedialive.com/articles/reada...cleid=11425#ixl

106.11.2007 17:08

Originally posted by pstorage:
Echos his earlier comments.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=261297


Some factual issues. Sony isn’t the only one making BD50 discs, etc.

http://www.emedialive.com/articles/reada...425#ixl


Sony dose set the pace for BR, but I think if BR as a whole can lower prices it will win, however it enes to effect price changes in the next 2 years to do it, they they remain 100$ above HDVD I don't think they have a chance of winning even with the higher discs.

116.11.2007 17:20

Originally posted by gleone:
Paramount took $150 million to back HD-DVD but lost $500 Million in Blu-ray sales!

Please cite your source. That's simply not true, and even the first part is just speculation. They've only said that there were "promotional considerations" with MS.
(edit: spelling)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Nov 2007 @ 17:22

126.11.2007 19:25

Originally posted by sk8flawzz:
good point about the wii outselling both, and not being 'next gen' (IMO it is) but im sure other factors contribute to its sells.

The only thing "Next Gen" about the wii is the controller. It's really a game cube in in shiny new wrapper. And even the controler isn't all that "next gen" either, does anyone remember the power glove???? And I think if M$ would lower thier price on the add on it would sell better.

137.11.2007 0:23

Quote:
Originally posted by elfman12:

Please cite your source. That's simply not true, and even the first part is just speculation. They've only said that there were "promotional considerations" with MS.
(edit: spelling)
New York Times Article

Microsoft is paying $150 Million in Paramount's Bills for 18 months.

Get with the program guys! It's called a kick-Back or a Pay-off. Pick one!

PLEASE DO Research before posting on this site. PLEEEEEEEASE!!!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Nov 2007 @ 0:58

147.11.2007 0:47

Quote:
Originally posted by elfman12:

link or it didnt happen :P

Its good BR is pioneering space however its its not cost effective tis dead int he water, I figure BR can only cost 50% more than HDVD in the long run to sustain itself if it wants the market it will need to go for heavy price cuts.

BR can get by being a bit more costly but if its too much the consumer market will ignore it.
Cost effective??? Is cost effective buying a HD-DVD player for less then $100??? The HD-DVD player for Less then $100 DOESN'T play HD-DVD movies in 1080p! So you buy a $25 dollar HD movie, but you can't watch it in 1080p. Is that cost effective???

You spend a few thousand dollars on a 1080p LCD, but then you buy a HD-DVD player that doesn't play 1080p movies in 1080p? Is that cost effective?
Please let me know your definition of "Cost Effective".

I'll tell you my definition of "COST EFFECTIVE". I bought a PS3 for $399. It's FULL 1080p HD. It upscales my standard DVDs to 1080p. It has a web browser so I can go online. The PS3 online service is FREE! It is a video game console and it's a FULL 1080p Blu-Ray player. Now That's Cost Effective!

Cost Effective is NOT buying an HD-DVD player that is being discontinued. Cost Effective is NOT buying 1080p HD-DVD movies for $25 dollars, then buying a player that doesn't play them in HD.

You might as well buy a PS3 and upconvert Standard DVDs! Now that's cost effective!

Please do some research before you post on this site.


Hitach100GB BD Disc1
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Nov 2007 @ 0:53

157.11.2007 9:04

Gleone, calm yourself down.

I know you like Sony and will try your best to make it seem like the $400.00 you spent on the PS3 was great bang for the buck but calm down.

First of all, the PS3 is gaming machine, the fact that it has a built in web browser and a blue-ray player are extra perks. Second, the $400 version is not backwards compatible, so looking at it from a gaming perspective, why would i even buy that version?

If you bought your PS3 as a Hi-Def player then you got a good deal for a Blu-Ray player and I'm glad for you. People who have chosen to go with HD-DVD got an even better deal with the promotions that took place not too long ago. Don't argue this. It is a fact.

In regards to the 1080i and 1080p output, The PS3 handles handles the progressive recovery and that is how it outputs the 1080p. If you have player that ouputs 1080i then your TV will have to handle the progressive recovery, so how good it looks depends on your TV. With a mid-budget TV you will not see the difference between 1080p and 1080i.

In regards to paramount, Hi-Def sales account to I think about 1% of all video sales, I am not sure of the number but go ahead and check for yourself. This is the reason why Paramount can back HD-DVD, their losses or gains in the High Def market are negligible in comparison to overall sales.

167.11.2007 13:47

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

First of all, the PS3 is gaming machine, the fact that it has a built in web browser and a blue-ray player are extra perks. Second, the $400 version is not backwards compatible, so looking at it from a gaming perspective, why would i even buy that version?


Sorry Wanpa Kun, You are incorrect. The PS3 has been deemed an "Entertainment Hub" or "Family Entertainment System". It is a Multi Function console. The features are not "Extra Perks" as you put it. It is a multi-functioning unit.

On your other point, if you have an extensive PS2 library then that means you already have a PS2. Why would you need Backwards Compatibility? Do you need two PS2s? And to answer you question; "why would i even buy that version?" A: You'd buy it to watch Blu-Ray Movies, Play PS3 Games or to go online. You can purchase the 80GB for an extra $100 if you feel it to be that necessary. The 80GB PS3 is BC.


Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

If you bought your PS3 as a Hi-Def player then you got a good deal for a Blu-Ray player and I'm glad for you. People who have chosen to go with HD-DVD got an even better deal with the promotions that took place not too long ago. Don't argue this. It is a fact.
LOL. Who deemed it a "Fact"? You or Best Buy? That is funny. Actually, it's a horrible deal in the long run and here is why: Now you're compelled to buy 1080p movies for $26.00 +TAX that you CAN'T watch in 1080p. Eventually you'll want to upgrade to full HD 1080p. You won't be able to sell the player on eBay for over $30 bucks! Toshiba is dumping an obsolete HD-DVD player for $100. Does that mean you MUST buy it? Just because it's cheap? Sometimes cheap doesn't = Smart. This is one of the times.

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

In regards to the 1080i and 1080p output, The PS3 handles handles the progressive recovery and that is how it outputs the 1080p. If you have player that outputs 1080i then your TV will have to handle the progressive recovery, so how good it looks depends on your TV. With a mid-budget TV you will not see the difference between 1080p and 1080i.
Sorry Wanpa-Kun, wrong again. This point is SO wrong. First, let's make something perfectly clear: A side by side comparison between 1080p (progressive) and 1080i (interlaced) is like Night & Day. The only people that can't decern between the two are people that don't have a 1080p HDTV. #2. PS3 is specificaly made for HDMI 1.3(a,b & c), native 1080p output with Java 1.1 capability and is fully upgradeable. The PS3 is an open-ended system so the Firmware upgrades you are able to receive are limitless where as EVERY SINGLE HD-DVD player on the market, regardless of price, is limited to it's hardware. Also, the HD-DVD players that are currently on the market for under $300 DO NOT output 1080p and are NOT full HD. If you do not have a 1080p HDTV, your TV is NOT full HD, period! And believe me, it's a world of difference.

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

In regards to paramount, Hi-Def sales account to I think about 1% of all video sales, I am not sure of the number but go ahead and check for yourself. This is the reason why Paramount can back HD-DVD, their losses or gains in the High Def market are negligible in comparison to overall sales.
Sorry Wanpa-Kun, wrong again! (Wow, you're really batting .1000 here)

You obviously do not own a business or have taken any business courses, so here is a quick lesson;
I will use Paramount and Transformers as the example since that was the subject of my Blog.

Lesson #1 - According to the Nielsen VideoScan, HD-DVD has accounted for 45% of total HD Sales in the month of October. Click HERE for Nielsen Numbers. The Transformers HD-DVD ALONE has accounted for 2% of all it's own video sales, selling a total of 190,000 copies on the HD-DVD format with the DVD selling 8.1 million for a grand total of 8.3 million copies. Sounds like a alot? Spider-man 3 BD ALONE out sold Transformers HD-DVD. That is without counting Spidey 1 & 2. The Exact numbers will be released by Nielsen this Friday (Nov. 9th 2007) although the preliminary numbers are posted. The Spidey3 BD has accounted for just under 10% of it's Total sales.

Now, take the %percentage gap, (which is 8%) and multiply that by the total Video sales. Then Divide that by 2. That gives you the average of the monthly loss or the Average of what profit Transformers does not share in (.08 X Total Video sales / by 2 = Average monthly Loss occurred by Paramount).

Lesson #2 - Here's an even quicker formula: Almost 10 Million BD players World Wide. 1/3 of BD Player owners bought a HD Spider-man movie. Spider-man and Transformers fans represent the same customer base demographic. Paramount LOST sales of approximately 3.3 million units of Transformers in the BD format. 3.3 Million X $26.99 = $89,067,000.00 of possible revenue. IN THE FIRST MONTH! BEFORE Q4 2007 Holiday season!

Lesson #3: Simple math - $150 Million over 18 months is $8.3 million per month (150mm paid to Paramount for 18 month HD-DVD exclusivity). $89 million X 18 months = $1.6 BILLION!!!


So Please Wanpa-Kun, Until you have some sort of clue what you are talking about, Pleeeeeease do not post on this site. Do some sort of research first.


This is what Wanpa-Kun should have posted; "If you can't afford a 1080p Player & 1080p LCD then stick with your Standard DVDs for now. Why spend the money on 1080p HD-DVD discs when you can't watch them in 1080p. If you feel you MUST buy a format NOW but you still wanna save some money, then you're much better off watching your current DVD collection on a 1080p LCD and a Playstation3 (PS3 upconverts STD DVDs to 1080p). Taking that approach will save you hundreds on movies alone. HD movies have an AVERAGE price of $26.99 vs. DVD's $11.99. There is no cheap path to HD right now. Why spend alot of money on expensive HD 1080p movies if you can't watch them how they are intended to be viewed? Thought the whole reason for going HD is so you can watch stuff in HD.

So my opinion is, save your money for now. Wait 3 to 6 months (Q1-Q2 2008). You'll have a much clearer view on Blu-Ray's & HD-DVD's position after the 2007 Holiday season".


Now if Wanpa-Kun posted something like that it would have made sense
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Nov 2007 @ 15:16

177.11.2007 15:03

Im confused as to why 1080p is so great compared to 720p and 1080i.

A lot of people are making the shift to HD for compliance and are not really worried about 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I think a number of people are feed BS at the store and waste their money on such things as expensive 1080p tv's and players.

I have seen all the tv's in action and I really cant see a Huge difference for me to throw out a couple of hundred bucks more just to get 1080p when 720p,1080i is sufficient for most general viewing.

And when I read the new Hi-def guides on this site I noticed something interesting.

720p:
"Depending on the constraints of the video codec being used, you could see framerates as high as 60fps."

1080p:
"requires a much higher bitrate than 720p, it's also the rarest in terms of content. Like 1080i, framerates commonly peak at 30fps. "

So if my Sony Bravia that is Native 720p can achieve a possible 60fps with the right equipment. Then I would be better off buying that equipment(to achieve 60fps)with the money saved from buying a 1080p tv and it will have better frames than the 1080p alone.

And according to the High def guide:
720p:
"Generally considered the best format for smaller HDTVs"

So unless I want a large 50+ tv taking up the space of my old tube TV. A smaller 27-37in 720p Tv would be the better route to go for my buck.

No I am not trying to make anyone look stupid. I just want to know if I am correct in thinking this, according to the guides provided my Afterdawn themselves and reading it in its entirety.

187.11.2007 15:42

Quote:
720p:
"Depending on the constraints of the video codec being used, you could see framerates as high as 60fps."

1080p:
"requires a much higher bitrate than 720p, it's also the rarest in terms of content. Like 1080i, framerates commonly peak at 30fps. "

Remember that for HD DVD (and BluRay for that matter) a film-based source will be encoded in 1080p/24fps. This is the video data as it is stored on the disc. All HD players can take this 1080p/24fps data and apply 3:2 pulldown to output the video at 1080p/60fps or 1080i/60fps depending on the model. The peak framerate noted in your quote (30fps) does not apply for HD DVD or BD.

The problem with 3:2 pulldown is that it can introduce judder especially during slow pans. The best way to avoid this is to have the 1080p/24 signal transmitted unchanged from the player to a display that can accept 1080p/24. The display then applies 3:3 timing at 72Hz (like the new Pioneer Kuro plasmas - I think error5 just got a new 50" Kuro so he can attest to this.) or 5:5 timing at 120Hz (like some new high end flat panels and projectors).

Quote:
So if my Sony Bravia that is Native 720p can achieve a possible 60fps with the right equipment. Then I would be better off buying that equipment(to achieve 60fps)with the money saved from buying a 1080p tv and it will have better frames than the 1080p alone.
Again this doesn't apply to HD DVD and BluRay since both can output full 1920x1080 either i or p at 60fps.


Now as to the question of which is better 720p or 1080p - I think the better question is when does the advantage of a higher resolution become apparent? It's all a matter of screen size and viewing distance. I still refer to this graph:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadg...ution_chart.jpg

197.11.2007 16:47

Thank you for the Clarification.

Ill just stick with my 720p :)

¤ÅцÏLJ-‡®Ï§†¤

207.11.2007 23:38

Gleone,

"89 million X 18 months = $1.6 BILLION!!!"

And that is why I'm not a business major

1/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base = 89 Million
2/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base (Overly Optimistic) = 178 Million
3/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base = 267 Million

By your calculations in 18 months there will be 60 million Blu Ray players sold and everyone in the world with one will have a paid copy of Spiderman 3.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Nov 2007 @ 23:49

217.11.2007 23:57

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

By your calculations in 18 months there will be 60 million Blu Ray players sold and everyone in the world with one will have a paid copy of Spiderman 3.
Wanpa-Kan, is this how you express your points? By confusing the issues?

I NEVER mentioned or predicted the sales of BD players. Spidey sold over 3 million copies in HD which account for 1/3 of BD player owners. Paramount's Transformers could have and should have shared in those sales. Paramount made a bad decision. What is so hard for you to understand? You're talking like Blu-Ray format will not sell another Machine or Disc. Do the math. Don't be so naive.

228.11.2007 0:02

Gleone

I am not confusing the issue. You performed wonder math and concluded that Paramount will lose 1.6 billion in sales for making Transformers an HD-DVD exclusive. I pointed out how absurd that is.

238.11.2007 0:24

Originally posted by Solo_Tek:
Im confused as to why 1080p is so great compared to 720p and 1080i.
Hey Solo Tek,

EatSushi pretty much answered your question. There is an X-Factor though. I have a 2007 model, Sharp Aquos LCD which is 1080p. I also have a PS3 that I use for viewing Blu-Ray movies and video games. Both the Aquos LCD and the PS3 have an Auto FPS option which automatically switches to the native Frame rate of the Movie being viewed.

Most "Films" are filmed at a 24fps frame rate. Most TV shows/Sporting events that are recorded with a Digital HD Studio camera have a 30fps frame rate. Digital cartoon movies such as PIXAR movies & Disney movies are all 30fps. Video games vary in Frame Rate depending on what type of game it is and how many variables are on the screen at any given time.

Mostly every new LCD has or is going to have a varied FPS option. The trick is to find an Hi-Def player that has the FPS option as well. The PS3 has this option. The Samsung BD series also has the FPS option. Remember, both the player and HDTV MUST have the FPS option in order to view a movie in it's native FPS.

248.11.2007 0:41

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:
Gleone

I am not confusing the issue. You performed wonder math and concluded that Paramount will lose 1.6 billion in sales for making Transformers an HD-DVD exclusive. I pointed out how absurd that is.
again, do the math. Paramount is not releasing 1 single title on Blu-ray. They will miss 18 months of sales plus 2 full Holiday seasons. Transformers, Godfather Box set, Ironman (2008), The Lost Arc, etc. There is an endless amount of titles in Paramount's catalogue that they will not be selling. Ya know what, they might lose $10 Billion in total. I was just figuring Transformers. So please, Do the math before you write.

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:

1/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base = 89 Million
2/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base (Overly Optimistic) = 178 Million
3/3 of Current Blu-Ray Base = 267 Million
LOL! This would be good if Blu-ray didn't sell another machine ever again. LOL. once they fill up the other 2 thirds they're done. Do you put any though behind what you write?

Please, enough. You win. You're right. Go buy the non-HD HD-DVD player and a whole Stack of $30 paramount movies. I give up with you. You're too funny!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Nov 2007 @ 0:48

258.11.2007 6:38

Originally posted by Wanpa-Kun:
Gleone

I am not confusing the issue. You performed wonder math and concluded that Paramount will lose 1.6 billion in sales for making Transformers an HD-DVD exclusive. I pointed out how absurd that is.
He has a point however its not lost sells hes not the MPAA/RIAA he should say it like that, now potential sells yes by putting it out on both formats there is profit to be had only on 1 less profit.

Now if its their whole catalog it would be reasonable that 1 B of profit could be missed.

268.11.2007 9:48

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM :

He has a point however its not lost sells hes not the MPAA/RIAA he should say it like that, now potential sells yes by putting it out on both formats there is profit to be had only on 1 less profit.

Now if its their whole catalog it would be reasonable that 1 B of profit could be missed.
EXACTLY! Finally! Thank you ZippyDSM. Good Post!

Also remember that Paramount/Dreamworks only have to sell 40mm units, over 18 months, at the current average price ($25) to pull in $1 Billion of revenue. With 10mm+ players on the market, you can achieve that number with 4-8 strong titles. By next Christmas (Q4 2008) the number of BD players will most likely be in the 30mm range.

My original point was this: Over an 18 month span, Paramount/Dreamworks would have well exceeded the $150 million if they would have went Blu.

Further more, Microsoft has Never turned a profit in this area of electronics. Just look at M$'s track record.

Microsoft's Win/Loss record:

XBox1 - $5+ Billion loss (Battle w/Sony) CLICK HERE:SOURCE

XBox RROD - $1.9+ Billion loss CLICK HERE:SOURCE

Zune - LOSS (Battle w/Apple) CLICK HERE:SOURCE

XBox Division since inception - Over $7+ Billion loss (Battle w/Sony

HD-DVD - ??? (Battle w/Sony, Apple, Disney/PIXAR, Dell, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, LG, FOX)

Windows Franchise - Hundreds of Millions in Profit CLICK HERE:SOURCE

MS Office Franchise - Hundreds of Millions in Profit CLICK HERE:SOURCE
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Nov 2007 @ 12:19

278.11.2007 18:33

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM :

He has a point however its not lost sells hes not the MPAA/RIAA he should say it like that, now potential sells yes by putting it out on both formats there is profit to be had only on 1 less profit.

Now if its their whole catalog it would be reasonable that 1 B of profit could be missed.
EXACTLY! Finally! Thank you ZippyDSM. Good Post!

Also remember that Paramount/Dreamworks only have to sell 40mm units, over 18 months, at the current average price ($25) to pull in $1 Billion of revenue. With 10mm+ players on the market, you can achieve that number with 4-8 strong titles. By next Christmas (Q4 2008) the number of BD players will most likely be in the 30mm range.

My original point was this: Over an 18 month span, Paramount/Dreamworks would have well exceeded the $150 million if they would have went Blu.

Further more, Microsoft has Never turned a profit in this area of electronics. Just look at M$'s track record.

Microsoft's Win/Loss record:

XBox1 - $5+ Billion loss (Battle w/Sony) CLICK HERE:SOURCE

XBox RROD - $1.9+ Billion loss CLICK HERE:SOURCE

Zune - LOSS (Battle w/Apple) CLICK HERE:SOURCE

XBox Division since inception - Over $7+ Billion loss (Battle w/Sony

HD-DVD - ??? (Battle w/Sony, Apple, Disney/PIXAR, Dell, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, LG, FOX)

Windows Franchise - Hundreds of Millions in Profit CLICK HERE:SOURCE

MS Office Franchise - Hundreds of Millions in Profit CLICK HERE:SOURCE

Preacher on Brotha i been saying this for a while but the HD-DVD fan boys don't want to hear it.Microsoft never committed to any corp they have done business with.Microsoft is playing both sides of the fence they hinted a year ago that if Blu-Ray win they would make a BD stand alone.

288.11.2007 18:49

gleone/NexGen76

Zune is more a "gadget" than direct competition with Itunes i has yet to fail like say sonys UDM.

The Xbox was a newly built brand to create it and make it flush like it did took ALOT of money and during the time who didnt lose tot eh PS2 it had all the games?

MS also had to build the live and they have taken it in a new direction with the 360, they have managed to break even with it however the RROD issues have put them back into the red of almsot 2-4B while Sony is in teh red around 1.5 - 2 B.

While MS might be losing moeny on HDVD sony is bleeding much worse from it.

You also have to udnerstand Sony wont easily share profits with other departments within itself so any losses the game dev takes is doubled if not tippled because the whole will not back it up.

MS has invested billions in the Xbox brand and contenuies to deliver at a steady pace, I just wish they would fix the thing NOW..... and lower the price 40% the 360 is to costly to be a duct taped easy break oven.....


Don't get me wrong the PS3 is better built but the games are going to far and few between and the prices not worth it mainly due to the hell of coding for the cell.

Right now the WII is worth the moeny and wont start hacking itself up to try and save moeny for the creator, Nin has it right keep it simple stupid and keep it about mostly about games.

299.11.2007 12:49

I agree with mostly everything you're saying...

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
MS also had to build the live and they have taken it in a new direction with the 360, they have managed to break even with it however the RROD issues have put them back into the red of almsot 2-4B while Sony is in teh red around 1.5 - 2 B.


XBoxLIVE has good points and bad points. Yes, XBL was a pioneer of sorts in the gaming industry but it is not unique any longer. I have a 20MEG FiOs connection and I encounter major LAG time on XBL when the online room is up to 75% full( 16 player limit). PSN has absolutely no lag, even rooms that are completely full (34 players +). XBoxLIVE is $50 bucks were as PSN is Free and will remain free for the foreseeable future, as reported by Sony.
When Sony releases HOME it will change the online community forever. Imagine living on a virtual planet with a virtual community. Walking into a virtual NIKE store and buying a pair of sneakers. Then the sneakers get mailed to your house. It's Genius! I don't care if I have to walk past Billboards and advertisements. As long as PSN is FREE I'll be happy.

On your second point, Sony is in the Red right now because of an investment. Sony was in the Red for over 3 years with the PS2. For M$ the Red Ring of Death (RROD) loss is NOT an investment. That money is non-recoverable.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

While MS might be losing moeny on HDVD sony is bleeding much worse from it.


I don't agree with this at all, and here is why; Let's pretend it is November 2008. Consumers are shopping for a new computer, PC/Laptop. You walk into BestBuy or Circuit City or CompUSA or CostCO and you see 2 different types of computers. 1 has a HD-DVD-R and the other has a BD-R. The salesman says, "The computer with the HD-DVD-R burns on 15GB discs and The computer with the BD-R burns on 25GB discs". Which one do you think people are going to buy? 100% will by the computer with the BD-R drive. #2. Apple is BD only. Those 2 reasons alone ensures Blu-ray will prevail.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
MS has invested billions in the Xbox brand and contenuies to deliver at a steady pace, I just wish they would fix the thing NOW..... and lower the price 40% the 360 is to costly to be a duct taped easy break oven.....


You are 1000% correct! XBox360 should, at the very least, WORK! A Console that has been reworked, and is on it's 5th version should at the very least TURN ON when you buy it. The 2007 holiday season will be only the 3rd of it's short life and it still doesn't function properly. But have no fear! The XBoxHD rumors that leaked out of the Toshiba camp are true. M$ did acquire the rights for the HD-DVD drive. The XBoxHD has been sleighted for a Q4 2008 release! Just in time for Christmas.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Don't get me wrong the PS3 is better built but the games are going to far and few between and the prices not worth it mainly due to the hell of coding for the cell.


PS3 is an "Open Platform" which is actually easier to develop for. The developers themselves wish every system was "Open". Here is a Direct quote from one of the SE's of Electronic Arts -

"Rival gaming systems should make way for a single open platform", a senior executive at Electronic Arts has said. Gerhard Florin said incompatible consoles made life harder for developers and consumers. "We want an open, standard platform which is much easier than having five which are not compatible", said EA's head of international publishing.CLICK HERE for Full ARTICLE

EA is not alone on this either. Silicon Knights President Dennis Dyack made the same statement.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Right now the WII is worth the moeny and wont start hacking itself up to try and save moeny for the creator, Nin has it right keep it simple stupid and keep it about mostly about games.


The Wii is a great for $250. I don't believe it is for the Hard Core Gamer though. I was playing Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare last night on the PS3. It was like no other game I have ever played. 50X better than Ghost Recon, Vegas & Splinter Cell combined. It was like being on the actual battle field except better because you can't die. (c:
If you are someone that enjoys that kind of intence gaming, then the Wii is NOT for you. It's just not going to give you that kind of experience.
If you wanna jump around for a while with your Kids or you enjoy "Baby Games" with "Cartoonie" graphics, then the Wii is great, especially for $250. You can not compare the Wii to the 360 or the PS3 at all. Not even close.
Philosophically, the Wii is on the opposite side of the spectrum than the PS3 and 360. Nintendo has made hundreds of Millions on the Wii. It is intended to be a "quick hit". Cheap in price with a relatively short shelf life of 1 to 2 years (like the GameCube. The Wii is a Bang'em out product. The PS3/360 philosophy is to have a console that is in it for the long hall. Hopefully 5 - 7 years. PS2 is the prime example of that philosophy working to it's fullest potential (8 strong seasons). XBox 360 is in all accounts the failure of that philosophy; Original XBox lasted 2 holiday seasons // XBox360 lasted 1.5 years before being reworked into the Elite // XBox Elite will be out 1 holiday season (2007) before the XBoxHD-DVD is released. // XBoxHD will launch Q4 2008.

Nintendo takes a different aproach to gaming which makes them alot of money, But remember, the shelf life of Game Cube was 16 months, so don't be surprised if the Wii follows in it's foot steps. Developers are already saying that the Wii won't last and I agree. It's more of a gimmick.

Doesn't it strike you odd that the few Good Wii games are ALL made by Nintendo??? Here is why:joystiq:Software developers worried about the Wii, hesitant to make games
IGN:Developers 'Nervous' About Making Wii Games
Developers are worried of making Wii games

You bring up a lot of good points though. Great talking with you!

G
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 13:30

309.11.2007 13:24

gleone

Mmmmmmmm Home is over rated, I prefer a simple menu driven system and find home to be 90% fluff, yes thos that don't know any better will love it but frankly I see it as slightly silly.

Well then the 25B and 5B are investment and nothign to worry voer while the 1B on the RROD issues is "lost", you can't have it both ways, Sony is bleeding moeny through bad decisions its true MS has made a few of them but they are not worse off from it.

And less we forget the 51GB HDVD disc that will become part of the standard in less than a year, current space is no longer a issue with BR and HDVD and the 100GB+ discs will take to long to come down in price so the only REAL thing to separate BR and HDVD is price and BR is losing on that and if they keep ignoring it they will have lost the consumer market again.

For me the 360 is a 200$ system with tis wonky BWC and iffy hardware even with the better hardware I still don't feel like paying more than 200 for it because tis handicapped PC gaming, get me customizable controls and full KB and mouse support and I will buy in, hell the whole of gaming treat customization as the great evil plague the WI would be 10X the system it is if they let you re button map it however you want(using wii more on GC and VC games or using official pads) hell you pay the pads but can't use them because theres no customization this BS needs to stop, even sony is not maikng KB and M a choice, its only for the few games that might support it...sloppy weak is all I can say...


Open wha?
Been drinking the cool aid much? have you not even seen the issues they have been having with games?
The PS3 sucks to code for and until devs and sony fixes the coding and optimization issues the "reported" power of the PS3 is a overstatement to be disregarded with all the other features missing at launch.

I still believe theres hidden power in the PS3 and as long as sony dose not rail it into the ground should be a great system in acouple years but for now its a headless mechanical chicken losing parts with every revision, unlike MS whos ignores whats broken sony is tryign to fix things that are not broken and this is just not good for the brand.

the pot shot at nintendo was good how about why are all the good PS3 games by sony?

Frankly graphics can take a flying fck I am so tired of shiny fluff I can puke Bioshock is heavily neutered FPS RPG thats watered down for the masses halo 3 is hella short and almost pointless as a SP only game.

Nin is offering the best of the lot cheap prices decent games,the game indutry needs to do a 180 on pricing games are to much for to little I am so tired of buying 50$+ games to find them lacking in content and options, Nin is the best of the lot but still is far from good enough IMO.

tacted on rantage 9000
Both sony and MS are avoiding the adult issue in this fight, Nin never gave a flyign fck abotu it there bread is not buttered here, but I recal the fight with Se3ga so long ago before the 32X Sega, Sega unlike Nintendo didn't ham string development of gore/violent titles (at least in comparistion to nin).

MS above all could benefit more from basic nudity and a higher level of violence in their games, they should embrace AO but instead of letting just any game pass on it they should develop a rantings board for it, to review the content to make sure its no worse than a R or NC17 film(not talking abotu unrated), basically open up the door a bit to AO titles, like have DOA vollyball with basic full frontal nudity but nothign past that, as for violence leasts say the whole ball ripper thing from Man hunt 2 is to much but the rest of it is ok.

The again who are they making games for frat boy slackers with no cash or kids/teens that get all the crap they want >>

blah.....
end rant mode

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 13:29

319.11.2007 13:40

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
For me the 360 is a 200$ system with tis wonky BWC and iffy hardware even with the better hardware I still don't feel like paying more than 200 for it because tis handicapped PC gaming, get me customizable controls and full KB and mouse support and I will buy in, hell the whole of gaming treat customization as the great evil plague the WI would be 10X the system it is if they let you re button map it however you want(using wii more on GC and VC games or using official pads) hell you pay the pads but can't use them because theres no customization this BS needs to stop, even sony is not maikng KB and M a choice, its only for the few games that might support it...sloppy weak is all I can say...

HERE YA GO! ONLY ON PS3! Because it's a computer, not a Game Console. It's an Open Platform.


This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 13:42

329.11.2007 13:54

gleone
Oh I know it can use a KB and a mouse so can the 360 and the 360 has a 3rd party adapter to use them on ANY game, however is this much like the KB and mouse support for the PS3 its only for the games that use it or is a replacement for the pad? try a link wif info :P

339.11.2007 14:03

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Mmmmmmmm Home is over rated, I prefer a simple menu driven system and find home to be 90% fluff, yes thos that don't know any better will love it but frankly I see it as slightly silly.
How can you comment? It's not out yet. Spring 2008. Beta Q1 2008

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well then the 25B and 5B are investment and nothign to worry voer while the 1B on the RROD issues is "lost", you can't have it both ways, Sony is bleeding moeny through bad decisions its true MS has made a few of them but they are not worse off from it.
I don't understand? Are you saying that M$ is better off from the bad decisions?

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
And less we forget the 51GB HDVD disc that will become part of the standard in less than a year, current space is no longer a issue with BR and HDVD and the 100GB+ discs will take to long to come down in price so the only REAL thing to separate BR and HDVD is price and BR is losing on that and if they keep ignoring it they will have lost the consumer market again.


I think you mean the triple layer 45GB HD-DVD disc. In a year BD & HD-DVD will be the same price. In a few months the first 50GB VideoGame will be released for the PS3. Movie content will be over 50GB in 6 months. They will utilize the 100GB Blu-ray disc (Hitachi-See earlier POST). Then What? Please tell me. I'd love to hear your answer.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Open wha?
Been drinking the cool aid much? have you not even seen the issues they have been having with games?
The PS3 sucks to code for and until devs and sony fixes the coding and optimization issues the "reported" power of the PS3 is a overstatement to be disregarded with all the other features missing at launch.
See links on earlier POST. The Developers are saying it, not me. I'm telling you what they said. I don't develop games for PS3 or 360 so I don't know first hand. Do you develop games?

349.11.2007 14:07

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
gleone
Oh I know it can use a KB and a mouse so can the 360 and the 360 has a 3rd party adapter to use them on ANY game, however is this much like the KB and mouse support for the PS3 its only for the games that use it or is a replacement for the pad? try a link wif info :P
Sorry. It's a replacement for the pad.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 14:12

359.11.2007 14:29

Quote:
How can you comment? It's not out yet. Spring 2008. Beta Q1 2008

Because its a 3rd person apartment VR world where you can go and buy things and talk to friends and other 3D chat crap its not as end all amazing as you might think, its "nice" but its gimmicky as all hell.
------------------------
Quote:
I don't understand? Are you saying that M$ is better off from the bad decisions?

maybe because they have not been "damaged" from it, losses gained from it are part of their business expense, sales and what not have not slowed much, also any losses MS takes it shares thought some of its devisions unlike sony that dose not cover time of trouble easily.
------------------

Quote:

I think you mean the triple layer 45GB HD-DVD disc. In a year BD & HD-DVD will be the same price. In a few months the first 50GB VideoGame will be released for the PS3. Movie content will be over 50GB in 6 months. They will utilize the 100GB Blu-ray disc (Hitachi-See earlier POST). Then What? Please tell me. I'd love to hear your answer.
the 45GB disc is good enough but they upgraded it too :P

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/28/51gb-...-gets-official/

Somehow I doubt by Xmas of 08 there will be 100$ BR players, not to mention disc prices wont match any time soon,since BR discs cost more by default.
-----------------------------------
Quote:
See links on earlier POST. The Developers are saying it, not me. I'm telling you what they said. I don't develop games for PS3 or 360 so I don't know first hand. Do you develop games?

Its called dev speak dear they do it to pump up the masses and should be taken with a grain of salt since they have a tendency to lie through their teeth to protect sales and the chance reailty is known to the masses.

And in this case its from EA..whos wanting to sell their crappy games on all systems in a generic format in order to make more money, they do not want the consoles to be different if they are it costs them more money.

And BTW most devs are "anonymously" "hesitant" about making costly games on the PS3 that sell poorly because of poor optimizations and worse sells.

Most devs or..er... hell are there really any devs anymore? most publishers are worried about their bottom line and doing everything but making good games to try and save money, both the PS3 and WII have doubters the 360 is pretty much a must unless you been bought out by someone or have your hand fulls with PS3 deving/optimization.


Quote:
A Future Firmware update make the Keyboard & Mouse compatible with all PS3 FPS. Come on man! Everyone knows that.

Not all FPSs will support it trust me they have messed up that before, and what about 3rd person shooters?
I want it over all games so I don't run into that 1 game I can stand that wont support it.

369.11.2007 15:01

Quote:
Because its a 3rd person apartment VR world where you can go and buy things and talk to friends and other 3D chat crap its not as end all amazing as you might think, its "nice" but its gimmicky as all hell.
LOL. Ok. I think the 2010 Mercedes 550 drives like crap. I think the 2011 Jeep Wrangler is Gimmicky as all hell. LOL

Quote:
maybe because they have not been "damaged" from it, losses gained from it are part of their business expense, sales and what not have not slowed much, also any losses MS takes it shares thought some of its devisions unlike sony that dose not cover time of trouble easily.
I own 2 very succesful businesses. An Insurance Company and Fidelity. From my experience, your statement is boarderline moronic. M$ can NEVER go out of business. Going out of Business is NOT the POINT. The point it LOSSES/GAINS. Their VideoGame division is a perenial loser and has never and probably will never profit. The type of loss M$ shows on it's VG division would put any other company on the planet on the unemployment line.

Quote:
the 45GB disc is good enough but they upgraded it too

http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/28/51gb-...ficial/

HD-DVD, at it's peak, is 5X larger than DVDs. Blu-ray at it's peak is peak is 21X larger than DVD and 4X larger than HD-DVD.

You still didn't answer my question; Q:How are they going to fit the 50GB Video Games and 60+GB movies on the HD-DVD disc? Please let me know. I'd love to hear your answer.
(I'll give you a hint... They C_ _'T).

Quote:
Somehow I doubt by Xmas of 08 there will be 100$ BR players, not to mention disc prices wont match any time soon,since BR discs cost more by default.
I hope there are no $100 blu-ray players. The HD-DVD player for $100 doesn't even play in full HD. You buy a 1080p movie for $30 but can't watch it in 1080p. LOL That is the biggest Joke ever!

And remember... Buying HD-DVD doesn't make you smart, It makes you cheap.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 15:28

379.11.2007 15:25

its mostly gamers that own/are buying blu-ray(PS3). if they think gamers will win the format war for them, then they are stupid. with the number of blu-ray capable units out there, they should be killing hd-dvd in disc sales... which they aren't. lol, pretty sad.
its just vhs vs betamax all over again. with the cheaper priced format winning again

389.11.2007 15:42

Originally posted by weird0:
its mostly gamers that own/are buying blu-ray(PS3). if they think gamers will win the format war for them, then they are stupid. with the number of blu-ray capable units out there, they should be killing hd-dvd in disc sales... which they aren't. lol, pretty sad.
its just vhs vs betamax all over again. with the cheaper priced format winning again
Weird0, do you read? You have the internet at your finger tips yet you still don't read. Let me help you...

The Nielsen HD sales report came out today (Friday Nov. 9th, 2007). Weird0 obviously DID NOT read it. Nielsen/VideoScan

Here it is. And YES, It includes Transformers!!!:

HIGH-DEF MARKET SHARE - BRD VS HD-DVD SOFTWARE SALES (11/4/07 - Nielsen/VideoScan):
Week End. 11/4.....Blu-ray Disc: 71%.....HD-DVD: 29%
Year to Date..........Blu-ray Disc: 64%.....HD-DVD: 36%
Since Inception......Blu-ray Disc: 61%.....HD-DVD: 39%


Imagine if they posted the numbers for World Wide Sales! It would be more like BD:96% / HDDVD:04%

America is the only place that fell for the HD-DVD trick. America, The Land of the Free??? Nope. America, The Land of The Dumb!

PLEASE DO Research before posting on this site. PLEEEEEEEASE!!!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 15:49

399.11.2007 15:55

[HD-DVD, at it's peak, is 5X larger than DVDs. Blu-ray at it's peak is peak is 21X larger than DVD and 4X larger than HD-DVD.

You still didn't answer my question; Q:How are they going to fit the 50GB Video Games and 60+GB movies on the HD-DVD disc? Please let me know. I'd love to hear your answer.
(I'll give you a hint... They C_ _'T).

LOL,
Hey Zippy the answer is A N, you can't!

I don't understand why people can't see HD-DVD as illogical, it's like upgrading your old B&W TV with a new 25" color TV with stereo. Your new TV will be obsolete in a few months.
I'm not saying that everything in home theater these days doesn't have an expiration date on it, but your library of discs doesn't have it to.

The most cost effective purchase you can make (when you're ready to take the HD plunge from standard DVDs) is Blu-Ray

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 15:56

409.11.2007 16:00

why don't you learn how to read gleone

i was talking about disc sales compared to the number of bluray vs hd-dvd units out there.
so how many blu-ray units do you think are out there compared to hd-dvd?

blu-ray's disc sales numbers should be way more higher than that

419.11.2007 16:05

yeah lol, wasn't betamax the better format back then?
and look what happened to them

429.11.2007 16:10

Originally posted by Scapp70:
[HD-DVD, at it's peak, is 5X larger than DVDs. Blu-ray at it's peak is peak is 21X larger than DVD and 4X larger than HD-DVD.

You still didn't answer my question; Q:How are they going to fit the 50GB Video Games and 60+GB movies on the HD-DVD disc? Please let me know. I'd love to hear your answer.
(I'll give you a hint... They C_ _'T).

LOL, Hey ZippyDSM the answer is A N, you can't!

I don't understand why people can't see HD-DVD as illogical...
The most cost effective purchase you can make (when you're ready to take the HD plunge from standard DVDs) is Blu-Ray
Scapp70! There is hope for America yet. "Cost effective!" Finally! Some one that went to 4th grade Math class! Someone that won't buy an obsolete HD-DVD player just because it's $100! God knows, it doesn't play in HD so what other reason could there be for buying one. You'll just have to upgrade when HD-DVD gets put in the Divix bin!

Correction: The only other reason to buy a $100 Non-HD, Non-1080p HD-DVD player is because you feel the need to spend $30 bucks on DVDs. LOL

439.11.2007 16:22

i wonder what other business Sony will sell off to try and keep this blu-ray thing going. rofl

449.11.2007 16:25

Originally posted by weird0:
why don't you learn how to read gleone

i was talking about disc sales compared to the number of bluray vs hd-dvd units out there.
so how many blu-ray units do you think are out there compared to hd-dvd?

blu-ray's disc sales numbers should be way more higher than that
Weird0, I didn't think it was possible but your second post is dumber than your first.

On HD-DVD's BEST Week that they will EVER have (The release of Transformers), they were out sold 71% to 29% in AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!

HD-DVD Does NOT sell anywhere but in the USA!

Did Bill Gates Brain wash you with a "Men in Black" light stick?

Please say he did because no one could be that dumb on their own!

459.11.2007 16:39

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
why don't you learn how to read gleone

i was talking about disc sales compared to the number of bluray vs hd-dvd units out there.
so how many blu-ray units do you think are out there compared to hd-dvd?

blu-ray's disc sales numbers should be way more higher than that
Weird0, I didn't think it was possible but your second post is dumber than your first.

On HD-DVD's BEST Week that they will EVER have (The release of Transformers), they were out sold 71% to 29% in AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!

HD-DVD Does NOT sell anywhere but in the USA!

Did Bill Gates Brain wash you with a "Men in Black" light stick?

Please say he did because no one could be that dumb on their own!
what are the worldwide unit/disc numbers then?
you sound like you have the numbers and i'm pretty curious myself

469.11.2007 16:39

Originally posted by jimmer:
yeah lol, wasn't betamax the better format back then?
and look what happened to them
Completely different. The difference between Beta & VHS is somewhere between 1% & 3%. The difference between BD & HD-DVD is 25% and growing. Remember HD-DVD discs are Capped out at 3 layers. Blu-ray can someday reach 7 layers.

Originally posted by jimmer:
i wonder what other business Sony will sell off to try and keep this blu-ray thing going. rofl
Sony sold Toshiba the rights to produce the CELL microprocessor for $1 Billion. Also, Sony gets a percentage of any unit sold with the CELL microprocessor installed.

What is Toshiba & Microsoft developing right now???

479.11.2007 16:53

Originally posted by jimmer:
what are the worldwide unit/disc numbers then?
you sound like you have the numbers and i'm pretty curious myself
Jimmer, If you're going to comment then you should know your stuff. Google it. You will find the World Wide Players and Disc numbers. I mean, you're commenting on a site, but you don't know the numbers. Come On Man!

It's something like 11 Million BD vs. 1.6mm HD-DVD players WORLD WIDE. With 97% of all HD-DVD players located in the USA.

Actually, don't look that up. Instead, look up the number of idiots there are floating in the sea of morons known as America. I think those numbers are something like, 95% of the United States can't find Texas on a Map. Don't count yourself though, I'll just minus one off the number you give me.

The format war is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, wouldn't you say. It will all be over soon. Go Blu!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 17:01

489.11.2007 17:28

with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic

499.11.2007 17:36

Originally posted by weird0:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic
what is pathetic is the pretzel logic you use. You must go through life so blissfully dumb.

509.11.2007 17:48

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic
what is pathetic is the pretzel logic you use. You must go through life so blissfully dumb.
11million units compared to 1.6mill. you do the math idiot

519.11.2007 18:10

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
why don't you learn how to read gleone

i was talking about disc sales compared to the number of bluray vs hd-dvd units out there.
so how many blu-ray units do you think are out there compared to hd-dvd?

blu-ray's disc sales numbers should be way more higher than that
Weird0, I didn't think it was possible but your second post is dumber than your first.

On HD-DVD's BEST Week that they will EVER have (The release of Transformers), they were out sold 71% to 29% in AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY! AMERICA ONLY!

HD-DVD Does NOT sell anywhere but in the USA!

Did Bill Gates Brain wash you with a "Men in Black" light stick?

Please say he did because no one could be that dumb on their own!
Ya..and at the double import premium BR is sold at outside of japan no one can afford it... and unlike BR MS is only a part of the HDVD movement unlike sony that can't help take BR down with them.

With HDVD moving to the under 200$ player setup even sony can't sue to keep them from importing it! LOL

but really with the price BR can only sustain half of the market, when the price halves twice the market share will double if it dose not in the next 2 years HDVD will win because it can out price the competition.

529.11.2007 18:31
animefan
Inactive

HD DVD and Blu Ray are both great formats, I have a HD and a Blu Ray player(it's the only way to go)! It makes me wonder why some people have to come on a quality site like Afterdawn and bicker over formats and wars......I don't understand the personality that has to "get behind" a brand or format and dump on everyone who disagrees with them. Kids in the fifth grade are more mature.

539.11.2007 18:49

Originally posted by animefan:
HD DVD and Blu Ray are both great formats, I have a HD and a Blu Ray player(it's the only way to go)! It makes me wonder why some people have to come on a quality site like Afterdawn and bicker over formats and wars......I don't understand the personality that has to "get behind" a brand or format and dump on everyone who disagrees with them. Kids in the fifth grade are more mature.
becuse baiting..er debiting is fun :P

Really tho the whole crux of the issue to me is price and market share if BR can not halve its prices twice within 2 years they are dead in the water.

Now if they could bring the 100+ GB disc out and Hollywood would put 3X the content on it for 80% the cost (3 seasons of a TV show for 50$) then well...ya price V cost BR wins...but really tis all about price V cost and with a high price BR is in trouble.

549.11.2007 18:53

Originally posted by weird0:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic
71% to 29% is 2:1??? On what planet?

weird0, Please do something for me. Go get a pen and a piece of paper. Write " AMERICA ONLY!" on it. Then get a nail gun and nail the paper to your forehead. Then go look in the mirror!

559.11.2007 18:57

Originally posted by weird0:
Ya..and at the double import premium BR is sold at outside of japan no one can afford it... and unlike BR MS is only a part of the HDVD movement unlike sony that can't help take BR down with them.

With HDVD moving to the under 200$ player setup even sony can't sue to keep them from importing it! LOL

but really with the price BR can only sustain half of the market, when the price halves twice the market share will double if it dose not in the next 2 years HDVD will win because it can out price the competition.
I don't understand a word of what you're saying. What is "BR"? and what does "halves" mean?

569.11.2007 19:06

Originally posted by animefan:
HD DVD and Blu Ray are both great formats, I have a HD and a Blu Ray player(it's the only way to go)! It makes me wonder why some people have to come on a quality site like Afterdawn and bicker over formats and wars......I don't understand the personality that has to "get behind" a brand or format and dump on everyone who disagrees with them. Kids in the fifth grade are more mature.
I like arguing with dumb hicks. It's a hobby of mine. After each arguement I evaluate the data that I've compiled. It helps me to figure out how fast the blithering idiots of America can melt the polar Ice caps. Once I figure the approximate date of the flooding of the earth, I will calculate where the water front property will be so I can buy it up at a cheap price.

Now you know! You don't have to "wonder" anymore.

579.11.2007 19:08

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
Ya..and at the double import premium BR is sold at outside of japan no one can afford it... and unlike BR MS is only a part of the HDVD movement unlike sony that can't help take BR down with them.

With HDVD moving to the under 200$ player setup even sony can't sue to keep them from importing it! LOL

but really with the price BR can only sustain half of the market, when the price halves twice the market share will double if it dose not in the next 2 years HDVD will win because it can out price the competition.
I don't understand a word of what you're saying. What is "BR"? and what does "halves" mean?
its simple 400 to 200 to 100(halve twive) if BR dose not have 100$ players in about 20 months the damage done by HDVD will be to much for BR to cope with.

On the other hand BR can fight dirtier and use the 100+GB discs to sale 300$ worth of media for 50-100 (2 or 3 seasons on a disc), but there again thos discs wont see the light for 20+ months and the media industry is not interested in lowering their profiteering.

So it comes back to the only way BR will remove HDVD from the market is via price.

If hollywood as a whole was more interested in space BR would have won by default but there are more things to consider than space or DRM, consumer price will make or break the formats, and BR is due for a huge price drop in 8-15 months the sooner it comes the faster BR can counter 100-150$ range HDVD players if they wait to long they will lose to much market share to HDVD,sony has to bite the bullet and elad BR to lower prices take debt in the start make it the main format and reap the rewards from it but like with the PS3 they refuse to place bets and do whats need to be done to build a brand.

589.11.2007 19:09

huh?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 19:10

599.11.2007 19:11

Quote:
Originally posted by animefan:
HD DVD and Blu Ray are both great formats, I have a HD and a Blu Ray player(it's the only way to go)! It makes me wonder why some people have to come on a quality site like Afterdawn and bicker over formats and wars......I don't understand the personality that has to "get behind" a brand or format and dump on everyone who disagrees with them. Kids in the fifth grade are more mature.
I like arguing with dumb hicks. It's a hobby of mine. After each arguement I evaluate the data that I've compiled. It helps me to figure out how fast the blithering idiots of America can melt the polar Ice caps. Once I figure the approximate date of the flooding of the earth, I will calculate where the water front property will be so I can buy it up at a cheap price.

Now you know! You don't have to "wonder" anymore.


its fun "trading sticks" look miens bigger!!
LOL

:P

PS: double post much? :P
Quote:

ts simple 400 to 200 to 100(halve twive) if BR dose not have 100$ players in about 20 months the damage done by HDVD will be to much for BR to cope with.
dude...havle, 1/2,half, twice 2 times,X2........... so reduce 400$ 50% X 2 =100$ or 100X 2 =200$ X2 = 400$.

Halve is to split in half....to do so twice is to quarter!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 19:14

609.11.2007 19:15

Originally posted by weird0:
Ya..and at the double import premium BR is sold at outside of japan no one can afford it... and unlike BR MS is only a part of the HDVD movement unlike sony that can't help take BR down with them.

How could I have been so dumb?!?! You guys are right? Blu-ray stinks. HD-DVD is better. HD-DVD is the best! HD-DVD WINS! HD-DVD is better in every way! The news just broke, there is a 900GB HD-DVD disc on it's way!

I've seen the light.

Later!

619.11.2007 19:18

Originally posted by zippyDSM:
dude...havle, 1/2,half, twice 2 times,X2........... so reduce 400$ 50% X 2 =100$ or 100X 2 =200$ X2 = 400$.

Halve is to split in half....to do so twice is to quarter!
ok DUDE! You win. Havle halve, BR, whatever!

HD-DVD WINS!!!

629.11.2007 19:20

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
Ya..and at the double import premium BR is sold at outside of japan no one can afford it... and unlike BR MS is only a part of the HDVD movement unlike sony that can't help take BR down with them.

How could I have been so dumb?!?! You guys are right? Blu-ray stinks. HD-DVD is better. HD-DVD is the best! HD-DVD WINS! HD-DVD is better in every way! The news just broke, there is a 900GB HD-DVD disc on it's way!

I've seen the light.

Later!
LOL

Not quite both formats are equal, skew things how you will they are even because they share the Hdef market nether has enough of it to push the other out and the reason for this is price, HDVD has started its under 200$ players BR needs to match fast(under 10 months) or lose their market share and eventfully the war.

639.11.2007 19:29

Quote:
Originally posted by zippyDSM:
dude...havle, 1/2,half, twice 2 times,X2........... so reduce 400$ 50% X 2 =100$ or 100X 2 =200$ X2 = 400$.

Halve is to split in half....to do so twice is to quarter!
ok DUDE! You win. Havle halve, BR, whatever!

HD-DVD WINS!!!

So you have nothing to say but that to show you have no thoughts or reason of your own other than the PR kool aid you drink, believe it or not the US has major consumer buying power still thus if tis cheap in the US and takes root the format or device will win because the US will suck it up why do you think the duct taped easy break oven(360) dose so well?

Price will decide what wins market competition 8 time out of 10(the other 2 bankruptcy/give up or buy out/merger), BR is the better format for the long road but without them effecting the market now they are dead, much like Beta and UDM.

There are more to formats and markets than the consumer drool they give out as brain washing kool aid, find a better drink..but stay away from the biter....it will make you pissy and hate everything >>

649.11.2007 20:11

Originally posted by gleone:

71% to 29% is 2:1??? On what planet?
Originally posted by gleone:

HIGH-DEF MARKET SHARE - BRD VS HD-DVD SOFTWARE SALES (11/4/07 - Nielsen/VideoScan):
Week End. 11/4.....Blu-ray Disc: 71%.....HD-DVD: 29%
Year to Date..........Blu-ray Disc: 64%.....HD-DVD: 36%
Since Inception......Blu-ray Disc: 61%.....HD-DVD: 39%


according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2007 @ 20:19

6525.11.2007 16:52

The fact is that Microsoft has put all its eggs in one basket and does want HD DVD to win the war. It will be hard for them to win i do feel the way thing s are going that both formats are going to last and eventually as we can see with some brands that dual format players are coming out and eventually dual format burners will follow.

6625.11.2007 17:56

Originally posted by borhan9:
The fact is that Microsoft has put all its eggs in one basket and does want HD DVD to win the war. It will be hard for them to win i do feel the way thing s are going that both formats are going to last and eventually as we can see with some brands that dual format players are coming out and eventually dual format burners will follow.
And sony has not? MS has more money to toss away,and that should help them with something,also unlike sony MS didn't put all their eggs in 1 basket but 2 or 3 if you count MS being more engrossed in the game depo than sony is.

MS might be breaking even or keeping up with their debt sony is doing the same, really I can see the whole PS3 V 360 going into extra innings as far as games/sales go with the PS3 optimized and the 360 having HDVD games things will be interesting in 3+ years.

6725.11.2007 19:24

Originally posted by weird0:

according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Right! It's Nielsen weekly report! WEEKLY!!!

Idiot!

Just so everyone knows, weird0 is now deemed the official idiot of the United States. He posts on electronics sites but doesn't know Nielsen is weekly.

KING IDIOT of the USA!!!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Nov 2007 @ 19:45

6825.11.2007 20:32

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:

according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Right! It's Nielsen weekly report! WEEKLY!!!
no shit! thats what i was pointing out
i mentioned 2:1 disc sales lead, so i was obviously talking about overall disc sales. why would you quote that and then mention 71% to 29% data

how bout some reading comprehension fucking idiot

6925.11.2007 20:45

Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Right! It's Nielsen weekly report! WEEKLY!!! You couldn't be any dumber! LOL

7025.11.2007 20:45

Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Right! It's Nielsen weekly report! WEEKLY!!! You couldn't be any dumber! LOL

7125.11.2007 20:48

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Right! It's Nielsen weekly report! WEEKLY!!! You couldn't be any dumber! LOL
in my original post, did i mention Nielson weekly report?
you attached it to my post. nice job son. keep making yourself look like a stupid n00b

don't you get it? thats what i was trying to point out. ROFL!!!!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Nov 2007 @ 20:52

7225.11.2007 21:08

Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
LOL. You couldn't be any dumber. You still don't get it. Nielsen is a WEEKLY REPORT!!!

According to my report 71% to 29% was ONLY for the week. It was NOT a total!!! Nielsen is WEEKLY!!!

It's not that hard to get. It's a simple concept. W-E-E-K-L-Y!!!

You're dumber than everyone first suspected.

7325.11.2007 21:11

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
LOL. You couldn't be any dumber. You still don't get it. Nielsen is a WEEKLY REPORT!!!

According to my report 71% to 29% was ONLY for the week. It was NOT a total!!! Nielsen is WEEKLY!!!

It's not that hard to get. It's a simple concept. W-E-E-K-L-Y!!!

You're dumber than everyone first suspected.
could it be that the report was based on that week and that the report is not from nelson?

7425.11.2007 21:21

Originally posted by gleone:
Quote:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic
71% to 29% is 2:1??? On what planet?
my original post, i was talking about total disc sales not weekly sales. like i said, how bout some reading comprehension idiot.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Nov 2007 @ 21:42

7525.11.2007 21:37

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
my original post, i was talking about total disc sales not weekly sales. like i said, how bout some reading comprehension idiot
Are you that dumb?!?!? I posted Nielsen's weekly numbers! Nielsen is WEEKLY!!! Nielsen is NOT total. It has nothing to do with your post. It's the WEEKLY numbers. go back to sleep. W-E-E-K-L-Y!!!

It's not that hard to understand!!!

7625.11.2007 21:44

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead?
how pathetic
71% to 29% is 2:1??? On what planet?
go back and read the original post again. you responded to me not the other way around. that quote shows you bringing up weekly stats when i was obviously talking about total disc sales.

Sony/blu-ray has their wee-wee so far up your ass that you can't even thing strait

7725.11.2007 22:01

Originally posted by weird0:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead? how pathetic
You're missing the point. Nielsen is a weekly report. How do you not understand that. sales are 3:1 fyi

7825.11.2007 22:20

Originally posted by gleone:
Quote:
with that many units out there, blu-ray can only manage a 2 to 1 disc sales lead? how pathetic
You're missing the point. Nielsen is a weekly report

listen my brain damaged friend, that post that you originally responded to had nothing to do with nielsen weekly figures. yet for some reason you responded 71% to 29% yadda yadda dur dur. you're the dumbass for getting confused. please try and get that in that thick skull of yours

7925.11.2007 22:36

Originally posted by weird0:
listen my brain damaged friend, that post that you originally responded to had nothing to do with nielsen weekly figures. yet for some reason you responded 71% to 29% yadda yadda dur dur. you're the dumbass for getting confused. please try and get that in that thick skull of yours
No you're wrong. Nielsen is WEEKLY. That means it comes out once every week. How do you still not get that?!?!?!

WOW. It's not that hard!

8025.11.2007 22:46

Originally posted by gleone:
No you're wrong. Nielsen is WEEKLY. That means it comes out once every week. How do you still not get that?!?!?!

WOW. It's not that hard!

no dude, i get it. Neilsen is your dad, and he anally rapes you W-E-E-K-L-Y. enjoy

8125.11.2007 22:48

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
no dude, i get it.
Nielsen is WEEKLY!!! It's not that hard.

8225.11.2007 23:09

Originally posted by weird0:
WOW. It's not that hard!

no dude, i get it. Neilsen is your dad, and he anally rapes you W-E-E-K-L-Y. enjoy
LOL!

8325.11.2007 23:10

From the article:
“The key fact is that Microsoft believed that a next-generation format should be ‘consumer friendly’ and at the time of the decision, only HD DVD supported this.”

I think the public will at most be only aquaintances as far as the goal of getting to the level of 'consumer friendly'.

8425.11.2007 23:26

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
no dude, i get it. Neilsen is your dad, and he anally rapes you W-E-E-K-L-Y. enjoy
Wow Weirdo, you truly are a dopey moron. Your idiotic, immature remark shows that you actually DON'T get it. How freakin' hard is it to comprehend a stupid Nielsen's VideoScan Weekly Report? I suppose if you knew how to read it in the first place, it would be apparent to you that you backed the wrong horse in the first place. Maybe that's why you are getting so bent out of shape, don't take it out on Gleone.

8525.11.2007 23:28

Originally posted by jimmer:
WOW. It's not that hard!

no dude, i get it. Neilsen is your dad, and he XXXXXX XXXXX XXXX W-E-E-K-L-Y. enjoy
No jimmer, you have it all wrong. Nielsen does a weekly review of sales. The numbers I posted were the weekly stats.

Thanks

8626.11.2007 2:08

Originally posted by weird0:
XXXX thats what i was pointing out
i mentioned 2:1 disc sales lead, so i was obviously talking about overall disc sales. why would you quote that and then mention 71% to 29% data

how bout some reading comprehension
No. That's not correct. It's a weekly report. Nielsen Has always been putting out weekly reports.

8726.11.2007 9:08

Originally posted by weird0:
Originally posted by jimmer:
Originally posted by weird0:
WOW. It's not that hard!

no dude, i get it. Neilsen is your dad, and he anally rapes you W-E-E-K-L-Y. enjoy
LOL!
Take a breath for a couple of days, and learn to mind the language. Thanks.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Nov 2007 @ 2:30

Jari Ketola
Administrator
http://www.AfterDawn.com

8826.11.2007 16:05

Quote:
Originally posted by weird0:
according to what you posted earlier, that 71% to 29% was only for the week, not total... moron
Nielsen does a weekly sales report. They added the YTD #'s in this one. Maybe this will help you. Here are the weeks past:

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 18th
WE: BD-66% HDD-34% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 11th
WE: BD-65% HDD-35% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending November 4th
WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 28th
WE: BD-55% HDD-45% YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-60% HDD-40%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 21th
WE: BD-51% HDD-49% YTD: BD-65% HDD-35% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 14th
WE: BD-71% HDD-29% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending October 7th
WE: BD-68% HDD-32% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%

HD-DVD was actually doing better a year ago. Now that the word is out on the Weak format, it's only getting worse. HD-DVD will probably be around for approx 4 more months.

Enjoy!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Nov 2007 @ 16:12

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