AfterDawn: Tech news

Warner Bros. goes Blu-ray

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 04 Jan 2008 17:17 User comments (138)

Warner Bros. goes Blu-ray According to an announcement by Barry Meyer, Chairman and CEO of Warner Bros., the studio has decided to throw its support behind Blu-ray beginning in May 2008 meaning it will no longer be dual format.
"Warner Bros.' move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want," explained Meyer. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

Up until the end of May, Warner will continue to release in HD DVD, Blu-ray and standard definition DVD.

"Warner Bros. has produced in both high-definition formats in an effort to provide consumer choice, foster mainstream adoption and drive down hardware prices,"
said Jeff Bewkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Time Warner Inc., the parent company of Warner Bros. Entertainment. "Today's decision by Warner Bros. to distribute in a single format comes at the right time and is the best decision both for consumers and Time Warner."

Kevin Tsujihara, president of Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group reiterated what had already been said.

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry,"
he explained. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."

Could this latest move be the beginning of the end for HD DVD?

Source:
Kotaku

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138 user comments

14.1.2008 20:31

yea it looked obvious that if the studios didnt back HD DVD then Blu Ray would get the upper hand since sony has alot of studios in its pocket. Not a big fan of sony but if they can think of the consumer now since they are gettin more support then maybe they might get more fans or ppl to adopt to blu ray.

24.1.2008 20:33

Well Well Well....WE HAVE A WINNER :)

34.1.2008 20:36

Quote:
Well Well Well....WE HAVE A WINNER :)
I dont think this move will totally end Hd-Dvd. It depends on what Paramount and Universal does. those two studios alone would be enough to keep HD-Dvd afloat.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2008 @ 20:37

44.1.2008 20:37

Warner also announced they DID NOT receive a payoff to support Blu-Ray exclusively. So we can avoid that rumor and argument here hopefully.
I hope Sony and the whole DRM thing doesn't plague us now or in the future.

54.1.2008 20:39

Quote:
Could this latest move be the beginning of the end for HD DVD?

Looks like the end.

I just don't see Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks remaining HD exclusive for much longer. I also don't expect too many HD DVD players to move in the next few months - unless they're part of a clearance sale.

The problem is I just gave my Dad a Toshiba HD-A2 (from the $99 WalMart sale) for Christmas. I don't think he knows about the Warner news yet but I'll have to think of way to explain it to him. At least he can still watch his Planet Earth HD DVD set on it and it's supposed to be a good upconverter. I guess he's getting a BluRay player for his birthday.

64.1.2008 20:40

Ah. The joys of this industry. It's like a book with a lot of plot twists!

74.1.2008 20:41
26r0cK
Inactive

Not lookin good for HD-DVD. Good job Blu-ray.

84.1.2008 20:41

This was just announced as well
Warner: New Line, HBO Not Covered By Blu-ray Announcement

interesting to see if this happens
Originally Posted by BozsterHD View Post

I wonder what would happen if

1. Toshiba lowers A3s across the board to $99 now
2. Universal, Paramount and Dreamworks release HEAVY number of titles in 2008 with half of 2008 still being filled with Warner titles.
3. Xbox 360 gets integrated HD DVD drive
4. Xbox 360 add-on goes for $99 too.
5. Marketing initiatives increase to really kick in in 2008 from HD DVD Group


I still think that HD DVD can come back from this and get Warner to rebound. I'm pretty sure Warner didn't sign an iron clad contract with Blu-Ray. They probably left an exit clause in case HD DVD comes back with strong hardware sales.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2008 @ 20:44

94.1.2008 20:44

Originally posted by sk8flawzz:
Warner also announced they DID NOT receive a payoff to support Blu-Ray exclusively. So we can avoid that rumor and argument here hopefully.
I hope Sony and the whole DRM thing doesn't plague us now or in the future.

meh they can hid money and deals easily also the data regarding "sales" is quite sad there is no "demand" for BR, the reason its selling somewhat better is do to a glut of players being in market.

But still DVD will be viable until Paramount or Universal jumps to BR, 08 is looking hot what will win cheap players or BR with more titles on it.


It would be nice if sony sold off more stuff to win the format war and prop up the PS3 more, kinda remove the ogres teeth and club but he can still smash you :P

104.1.2008 20:46

Quote:
Originally posted by sk8flawzz:
Warner also announced they DID NOT receive a payoff to support Blu-Ray exclusively. So we can avoid that rumor and argument here hopefully.
I hope Sony and the whole DRM thing doesn't plague us now or in the future.

meh they can hid money and deals easily also the data regarding "sales" is quite sad there is no "demand" for BR, the reason its selling somewhat better is do to a glut of players being in market.

But still DVD will be viable until Paramount or Universal jumps to BR, 08 is looking hot what will win cheap players or BR with more titles on it.


It would be nice if sony sold off more stuff to win the format war and prop up the PS3 more, kinda remove the ogres teeth and club but he can still smash you :P
I'm waiting until AFTER may and for a profile 2.0 BD player before I buy warner titles on Blu-ray..
anyone think the PS3 will get bumped to that just like it went profile 1.1? (PM me about this so we can keep the forum on topic)

114.1.2008 20:53

sk8flawzz
BR still has some issues with java I think if anyone is waiting to go Hdef they should bide this year with a DVD up converter,BR needs some polishing to be worth the 200-300 for a solidly built player,plus some coding issues might popup still.

As for the PS3 sony is a bit insane with its SKUs truthfully theres no teling what they will do but hopefully they planed ahead with this(unlike BWC) and made the BR spec mandible through firmware.

I kinda wish they would relase a PS3 with ahrdware BWC and a 4X BR drive..now theres soemthing I would consider paying 600 for now that BR has lost some of its dead weight.

and ya last post off topic if you want to jade at my jelloly comments do it through PMs or make a new thread I am always up for making a fool of myself ^^

124.1.2008 20:55
hughjars
Inactive

An 18mth deal for $450 million is what I've seen quoted as the pay-off, $70 million more than HD DVD offered.

This isn't good news for HD DVD, no doubt.

But it isn't over.
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).

But if Blu-ray does 'win' (at least as far as the Blu-ray v HD DVD battles goes) the the sad truth is that the consumer will lose out.

If HD DVD really does fade to a small element of the high def market then Blu-ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices, drop their DRM, to finalise the specs properly or to reduce movie prices to anything even approaching current DVD prices.

My own bet would be that in that case the wider public really will just shrug and continue to ignore optical disc high def preferring instead HD TV DVR/PVRs, 'ordinary' DVD and downloads.

It's perfectly possible that Blu-ray could well have end up with some sort of a win against HD DVD but having lost the chance to become the next DVD.

134.1.2008 21:09

One of many of your quotes. Seems what you say and hear have little cred.


Wow, I've seen some lame claims in this 'debate' but that little list has to be one of the most laughable.

We're now just a few days away from the start of the end of all this.

Even Sony et al are winding down the rhetoric - and that ought to be indication enough that they know there is bad news coming for them.

Note the Fox senior exec who said after CES 2008 there would be one high def format.

Here is the quote -

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
14th Dec 2007:
“The table is probably set for high-def in 2008,” says Dunn. “I think by CES it will be pretty clear there will be one format.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.variety.com/VR1117977725.html

Note that even tho he is a Fox exec he does not go on to claim that single format would be Blu-ray.

That ought to be hint enough of some of the surprises we have in store during CES 2008 & in the 1st half of 2008 (some deals will not 'go live' until later in the year).

Tough luck Blu-ray/PS3 fans, it's HD DVD that is firmly coming through now.
The decisions have been made and the deals done and it's not looking good for Blu-ray
(no matter how much you want to whine about the retail movie disc sales situation during 2007).

I'm really looking forward to discussing the CES news when it breaks!

144.1.2008 21:11
Ludikhris
Inactive

Quote:
An 18mth deal for $450 million is what I've seen quoted as the pay-off, $70 million more than HD DVD offered.

This isn't good news for HD DVD, no doubt.

But it isn't over.
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).

But if Blu-ray does 'win' (at least as far as the Blu-ray v HD DVD battles goes) the the sad truth is that the consumer will lose out.

If HD DVD really does fade to a small element of the high def market then Blu-ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices, drop their DRM, to finalise the specs properly or to reduce movie prices to anything even approaching current DVD prices.

My own bet would be that in that case the wider public really will just shrug and continue to ignore optical disc high def preferring instead HD TV DVR/PVRs, 'ordinary' DVD and downloads.

It's perfectly possible that Blu-ray could well have end up with some sort of a win against HD DVD but having lost the chance to become the next DVD.
Close, but economics would tell you that any substitute makes competition. Since bluray would still have to compete against DVD they will continue to shape up the quality and lower the prices as technology advances in order to bite into that DVD owner market.

Thinking people may stick with what they have may not be far off, but having HDDVD around to compete with Bluray is going to make null difference. Really after 2008 the HD market will have grown to a size where it begins to finally reach masses at which point they will only need one format. Sure it will only be a few but it HD optical no matter which one, will still have to improve itself and or lower prices in order to make people move on it.

154.1.2008 21:13

Such pointless and wasteful format wars are capitalism at its most pathological. All they do is drive up costs and limit choices for consumers... some of who will end up with huge investments in a market loser. The notion that such competition is healthy is bizarre. Take the Beta vs VHS war. One had a better picture the other longer run time. No matter who won, neither had the best ideas of both design teams. When only the inferior compete, only the inferior can win.

And remember Reagan's attempt to let the market decide a format for AM-stereo? Broadcasters didn't want to invest if they were not sure listeners could decode their signal... and consumers didn't want to invest if their radio could not get all the stereo AM stations. In this case AM-stereo pretty much died though there were some lame attempts in the mid-90's to reintroduce it.

The better way is to force industry to cooperate on a common standard right from the start... one that incorporates the best ideas in the industry... and let them figure out the royalties.

Hardware and software will be standardized so no one is afraid of making an investment. Prices will be cheaper and movie selection better at store since they don't have to carry duplicate titles.

164.1.2008 21:19
Ludikhris
Inactive

Glass, dont make me lose faith in humanity by spreading the dumb! You may as well have just said "OH MAN VHS IS GOIN DOWN ANYDAY NOW! WOOT BETA FTW!" The writing is on the wall. Of course nothing is sure, but to hear this news and say "HDDVD is gonna trounce them based on a little bit of speculation where you must read between the lines, on tuesday, with red socks on, while holding a brick of cheese, singing "baby got back", and rubbing your stomach." If nobody sees it but you, we, as society, deem you insane. You're insane dude.

174.1.2008 21:20

seagrave
Is that not how captilisim works?
Both sides hording their abilities to out do the other on the market one wins one falls, this is the way of life.

184.1.2008 21:22

Originally posted by Ludikhris:
Glass, dont make me lose faith in humanity by spreading the dumb! You may as well have just said "OH MAN VHS IS GOIN DOWN ANYDAY NOW! WOOT BETA FTW!" The writing is on the wall. Of course nothing is sure, but to hear this news and say "HDDVD is gonna trounce them based on a little bit of speculation where you must read between the lines, on tuesday, with red socks on, while holding a brick of cheese, singing "baby got back", and rubbing your stomach." If nobody sees it but you, we, as society, deem you insane. You're insane dude.
Yes I am called crazy for seeing details missing in game design and tend to see lax game design in all new games.

194.1.2008 21:32

here's what killed hd-dvd.....PIRATES

204.1.2008 21:36

Blu-Ray's biggest rival is DVD.
Blu-Ray will have to drop prices of disks to near DVD levels to get consumers interested.However,people can buy DVD's from around the world and can back them up/transfer them to their mobile players if they wish.In that respect,Blu-Ray is 10 steps behind DVD and will be indefinitely.

214.1.2008 21:37
Ludikhris
Inactive

Seagrave- go to school, take economics. Everything you just said defys all rational thought.

I make bikes, you make bikes. Because we COMPETE I have to sell for less to make sure I can eat tonight. You make yours better so people buy yours so you can eat. Now both bikes are getting better and cheaper due to competition.

Same thing as the players and discs. Discs are made due to profit perspective, loss today maybe but great profit later. Thats called "risk vs reward". Now the discs will only be made where companies think they will make the most profit. If a company pays them more to make the discs only for their player you factor that in as profit. So discs are being made and support is adequate enough to not need any sort of government intervention.

What you just said breaks down to socialism and or communism. Read the post on China that happened today. That is the result of the slippery slide of the government or some committee making your choices for you. One company makes all the money and prices at whatever they want and the customer has to pay it out.

224.1.2008 21:46
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by hughjars:
An 18mth deal for $450 million is what I've seen quoted as the pay-off, $70 million more than HD DVD offered.

This isn't good news for HD DVD, no doubt.

But it isn't over.
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).

But if Blu-ray does 'win' (at least as far as the Blu-ray v HD DVD battles goes) the the sad truth is that the consumer will lose out.

If HD DVD really does fade to a small element of the high def market then Blu-ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices, drop their DRM, to finalise the specs properly or to reduce movie prices to anything even approaching current DVD prices.

My own bet would be that in that case the wider public really will just shrug and continue to ignore optical disc high def preferring instead HD TV DVR/PVRs, 'ordinary' DVD and downloads.

It's perfectly possible that Blu-ray could well have end up with some sort of a win against HD DVD but having lost the chance to become the next DVD.
Ahaha so much for those "big smiles".

234.1.2008 21:52


Ahaha so much for those "big smiles".
And those other comments from that thread like

"Warner are not ditching HD DVD."

"No matter how many times you wish it so."

244.1.2008 21:52

Originally posted by hughjars:
An 18mth deal for $450 million is what I've seen quoted as the pay-off, $70 million more than HD DVD offered.

This isn't good news for HD DVD, no doubt.

Warner has issued a denial stating that no payoff was involved:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/W...to_Blu-ray/1327

That being said, if no payoff was involved then we can be sure that some other "sweetener" was in play. Something like heavily subsidized replication or heavily subsidized marketing.

At the end of the day it should be acknowledged that this was indeed a masterstroke of a business deal. The negotiating team that pulled off this coup should be congratulated.

Quote:

There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).
I highly doubt this given today's announcement. You have to admit this is bigger than the Paramount/Dreamworks deal some months ago. If I were the CEO of a BD-exclusive movie studio I would definitely take a long hard look at things before supporting HD DVD right at this moment.

What's different now is that Warner is still releasing its previously announced HD DVD titles - which is IMO very classy on their part. Paramount just cut and run and left BluRay blindsided. Remember they canned Blades of Glory on BD a few days before it was supposed to hit shelves.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2008 @ 21:55

254.1.2008 21:53

Ludikhris
is it good for the goverment to saction monopolies via regulation and nurture it via tuning a blind eye since it gets plenty of kickback by fees from it, or have things alway been like that?

the goverment should be hands off unless price gouging goes on and even then they should put pressure on the corporations not "regulate" it.....

264.1.2008 21:59

Everybody wait. Hug says it aint over. Business as usual. Nothing to see here, Nothing to see here. This is just a 12 inch flesh woond to the throat.

274.1.2008 22:03
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by glasssd:
Everybody wait. Hug says it aint over. Business as usual. Nothing to see here, Nothing to see here. This is just a 12 inch flesh woond to the throat.
Woah that's a long neck...

284.1.2008 22:04

50>30 why is so hard to understand

it doens't mather if movies are only 25 probably in a couple of years they will be 35 and that's when every blu-ray user will say i told u so!

294.1.2008 22:09

Originally posted by glasssd:
Everybody wait. Hug says it aint over. Business as usual. Nothing to see here, Nothing to see here. This is just a 12 inch flesh woond to the throat.

Meh its a bad sign but not the end still not ready to buy since BR is still buggy and doesn't have all the movies on it yet.


Originally posted by chaos_zzz:
50>30 why is so hard to understand

it doens't mather if movies are only 25 probably in a couple of years they will be 35 and that's when every blu-ray user will say i told u so!
mainly because they have 2-5X as many players out.

304.1.2008 22:12

Originally posted by chaos_zzz:
50>30 why is so hard to understand

it doens't mather if movies are only 25 probably in a couple of years they will be 35 and that's when every blu-ray user will say i told u so!

Sadly, the above sort of "thinking" is what is being rewarded in this deal. Really sad.

314.1.2008 22:20

Originally posted by hughjars:
An 18mth deal for $450 million is what I've seen quoted as the pay-off, $70 million more than HD DVD offered.
Don't even try it that has been shot down already.I see you haven't been keeping up with the news since they drop this at 4pm est.

Originally posted by hughjars:
But it isn't over.
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).
Not a chance in hell i told you over a month ago that the best news you can hope for from CES08 is Warner staying neutral & that still hold true but there is more news because Newline will go exclsive also because they are own by Warner also.I hate to say i told you so.Lets not forget dimension films(The Weinstein Company) who said they was going to address there format issue during CES so count on them not being HD-DVD exclusive anymore.You have seen the Death Blow to HD-DVD.

Originally posted by Hughjars:
It's perfectly possible that Blu-ray could well have end up with some sort of a win against HD DVD but having lost the chance to become the next DVD.
Do count on it because it was HD-DVD that was looking pass BD always talking about taking on the SD-DVD market but this isn't going to be a War or a battle.Because there going to be a slow movement toward Blu-Ray just like DVD did VHS.The most important part is done Blu-Ray is going to be the next format weather people embrace it or not we will see.Because it isn't going to be HD-DVD.So much for Blu-Ray being a gaming format like you said.


I told you that CE don't look a BS PR spins on attachment rates they look at software & hardware sells money talks.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2008 @ 22:27


324.1.2008 22:48
red2tango
Inactive

where's hughjars?lmao.i thought there was gonna be a HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT AT CES FOR HD-DVD.lol its over.blu-ray wins then ps3 wins because of blu-ray integrated player.lmao suckers who bought hd-dvd players.

334.1.2008 22:48

Originally posted by hughjars:
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).
This is highly doubtful since the HD DVD Promotion Group has just officially postponed (cancelled?) their 2-hour CES Press event at the Wynn.

http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-event-c...nouncement/483/

Quote:
CES HD DVD Event canceled due to Warner announcement

I just received an email from the HD DVD Promotion Group stating that the CES 2008 HD DVD press event has been canceled. The recent Blu-ray exclusive announcement from Warner is cited as the reason for the event being canceled. You can find the full text of the notice below.

Notice of CES Press Conference Cancellation by North American HD DVD Promotion Group


“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2008 @ 22:54

344.1.2008 22:54

Quote:
Originally posted by hughjars:
There may well be other moves at CES 2008 which favour HD DVD
(the rumour is of perhaps 2 Blu-ray exclusive studios going neutral).
This is highly doubtful since the HD DVD Promotion Group has just officially cancelled their 2-hour CES Press event at the Wynn.

http://wesleytech.com/ces-hd-dvd-event-c...nouncement/483/

Quote:
CES HD DVD Event canceled due to Warner announcement

I just received an email from the HD DVD Promotion Group stating that the CES 2008 HD DVD press event has been canceled. The recent Blu-ray exclusive announcement from Warner is cited as the reason for the event being canceled. You can find the full text of the notice below.

Notice of CES Press Conference Cancellation by North American HD DVD Promotion Group


“Based on the timing of the Warner Home Video announcement today, we have decided to postpone our CES 2008 press conference scheduled for Sunday, January 6th at 8:30 p.m. in the Wynn Hotel. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

We are currently discussing the potential impact of this announcement with the other HD DVD partner companies and evaluating next steps. We believe the consumer continues to benefit from HD DVD’s commitment to quality and affordability – a bar that is critical for the mainstream success of any format.

They made this meeting almost a month ago so im guessing that they didn't know what format there was going to support.I think this decision was just made by Warner & not been made months ago.

354.1.2008 22:57

@Ludikhris
Enough with the personal attacks.
It really boggles my mind why these news articles on the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD get so heated so let's take it down a notch and be civil.




Forum Rules
Do this before posting
Do not click this link...

364.1.2008 23:08

What irritates me is the timing of this announcement. It shows very little concern for your customer's interest to make this decision public just barely over a week after Christmas. How many people got HD DVD players for a present which now has the very real potential to be obsolete? They should have said something before the holiday.

374.1.2008 23:31

Quote:
here's what killed hd-dvd.....PIRATES
Unfortunately that seems to be the case. Studios want the most aggressive, virulent, threatening drm in existence to protect their content. Instead of being consumer friendly they want protection that has the ability to disable devices when tampered with.

Well if this truly is the beginning of the end for hd dvd I can only hope that slysoft doubles their efforts to permanently break bd+ and keep sony on their toes. Just think of all the pissed off hd-dvd owners out their... now they have a collective goal.

384.1.2008 23:47

Originally posted by Xian:
What irritates me is the timing of this announcement. It shows very little concern for your customer's interest to make this decision public just barely over a week after Christmas. How many people got HD DVD players for a present which now has the very real potential to be obsolete? They should have said something before the holiday.
Im a Blu owner but I have to agree with you. A lot of people kinda wasted some money. At least WB did not do like Paramont and quit cold turkey. WB will support hd dvd through May. The hd dvd player can still up-convert. Not a total loss. Im just glad that I wont get sucked into anymore stupid arguments from someone here.

395.1.2008 0:20
Ludikhris
Inactive

I totally agree Redux. I've heard a lot of users saying "I won't buy this because DRM is anticonsumer. The problem is that DRM is pro-dev. So studios will want to develop where the content is more protected. Where the content is the consumers will follow. The very small amount of people that truly care about DRM will be outnumbered by those that buy their media from outlets and use it as intended.

My only concern is I will have to remain with DVDs to get my content from disc to iPod. I won't pay twice. The studios should fix this.

405.1.2008 0:23

I'm not a HD-DVD nor a Blu-Ray fan/fanboy but have always stated that if all studios supported both formats and drop the prices of stand-alone players then a true winner would emerge a lot quicker than the way the "war" has been fought thus far. Let the people decide which way they want to go instead of the studios deciding for us. It sucks for fans of one format over the other that can't get certain titles that they might want b/c the studio is on the "other camp". Because of this reason I'll gladly stick to regular "old" DVD for now.

415.1.2008 0:29

When is Bill Gates stepping in? I mean if sony is behind BR with the ps3 BR drive built in why not an Xbox with a HD Dvd drive built in and make some kill, i dont see how having 2 formats is good for competition, it only brings confusion, competition the way i see it is having one format so everybody can enjoy the technology and the common people can buy the hardware making no mistake about it, while the studios kill themselves in order to give us good quality movies, desirable set boxes, trilogies, discs with collectible items, movie memorabilia, studios giving us movies with subtitles and audio track choices, featurettes, interactive stuff, special software, games relative to the movie or whatever, just my 2 cents.

425.1.2008 0:34
camaro17
Inactive

**clear throat** um hughjars told me they were going HD-DVD exclusive, lol, i knew this would happen, another step closer to blu-ray being the winner and the new standard.

Peace

435.1.2008 0:37
camaro17
Inactive

hughjars, i dont hate you nor do i not like you, i respect that you stick up for your chosen format, but i would recommend that you do not post in this thread, it will save alot of flaming and fighting, so for your own sake man, stay out.

Peace man

445.1.2008 1:02
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by camaro17:
hughjars, i dont hate you nor do i not like you, i respect that you stick up for your chosen format, but i would recommend that you do not post in this thread, it will save alot of flaming and fighting, so for your own sake man, stay out.

Peace man
Ya wheew... You should pack up and leave town for a while... 'Think some things over :P

455.1.2008 1:04

First thing: Seagrave you have GOT to learn some basic economics. Everything you said shows a breathtaking ignorance of the market economy (that you used the "term" capitalism shows just how lacking your economic education is; the days of the individual "capitalist" passed long ago, before 1800...)

In my opinion, if the format war isn't solved, the entire business model of selling consumers small, plastic discs may become obsolete.

If and when truly high speed 'Net connections become available (say 10MB/s download speed and up), movies will be downloaded either to PC or to a set-top Tivo-like box.

The days of entertainment delivered via objects is on a short road (more or less) to extinction. High speed delivery is the future.

I just bought a Toshiba HD-DVD player (the AD-30 unit) right before Christmas. I had been considering BR, but problems with BD+, as well as the inclusion of Region Coding and problems with the specs led me to go HDDVD.

While I'm disappointed with TimeWarner's decision (guess there'll be no HD-DVD versions of Lord of the Rings, :o( ), I'm glad TimeWarner released the "final" cut, 5-disc Blade Runner set on HD. (the reformatted version looks amazing, it simply pops off the screen).

My Toshiba unit's upconversion is fantastic. SDVDs look a lot better. I admit that I was skeptical about the whole up-conversion thing, but it really does work.

I agree with the one studio exec who remarked that most people aren't going to replace SDVDs with hi-def discs. And he's right. I'm not going to run out and buy every Coen brothers' film on HiDef again. William H. Macy in 1080 (i or p) 600% clearer isn't going to make Fargo any funnier.

I would fret too much HD-DVD owners. Lower cost dual BR/HD units are supposed to be available the middle of this year. Thus, IF BR turns out to be the next "standard" (and I think that conclusion is premature--at best), dual players will ease the transition.

If, however, neither format manages to become the monopoly (perhaps a Coke-Pepsi siutation with a 70-30 market split), that is the best result for the consumer.

I almost bought BR because my daughter wanted a console system, so I was considering the PS3. However, I'm not really a console player (I have $3000 PC I built mostly with gaming in mind) and I've never liked Sony's creation of its own "DRM" (Arccos/Puppetlock) as well as the fiasco with "protected" CD-DAs that turned out to be total garbage.

Redux79 has got it right: the good folks at Slysoft have already defeated AACS (used by both HD & BR) as well as BR's region coding. Hopefully their software will soon be able to play back up copies on stand-alones, without the computer having to be attached to the HDTV (pls...correct me if I'm wrong).

Until the dust settles--if it ever does--on the "format war", those who chose HDDVD are not suckers yet. Toshiba's player is solid, the upconversion feature is 5-star. And many, many movies are available in the format and studios are still releasing titles.

HDDVD is far from dead. BR far from victorious.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 1:09

465.1.2008 1:17
camaro17
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by camaro17:
hughjars, i dont hate you nor do i not like you, i respect that you stick up for your chosen format, but i would recommend that you do not post in this thread, it will save alot of flaming and fighting, so for your own sake man, stay out.

Peace man
Ya wheew... You should pack up and leave town for a while... 'Think some things over :P
lol man

Peace

475.1.2008 2:22

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Hughjars. This is what you get for talking on and on and on. I stay out of most of these threads because of you. I am happy you havn't decided to join this one. So when are you buying a blu-ray player. I suggest the S300. Mine works awesome. Better start offloading your hddvd's on ebay.

485.1.2008 2:39

I agree that HD-DVD should not be counted out just yet, but this is a major major victory for the Blu-ray camp. Hopefully for HD-DVD, this doesn't start a domino like chain reaction among the major studios left backing them, or, like someone said before about cashing in your HD-DVDs on ebay, people don't start flooding ebay with sales of their HD-DVDs. I'd say the next three days are critical to HD-DVD's chances of overtaking SD-DVD as the new standard.

495.1.2008 3:08

i agree with redux, this is all about drm (copy protection). the movie studios have people on the pay roll to come to sites just like this. ive also noticed that toshiba has had a burner and verbatim has had hd media for quite sometime but none are available for sale (here in the states). this makes me go hmmmmm. yes i think big buisness will make up our minds for us. the only way hddvd will stay alive is if they come out with a comparable or better copy protection than bd+.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 3:13

505.1.2008 3:46

HD DVD shoud offer 17 free car washes with the buy of one HD DVD, that will get people going...

515.1.2008 4:44

i cant believe this, my local news channel just advised people not to buy hddvd players. this has got to be a first. if toshiba and microsoft have any brains at all, they will make sure there is a dvd drive that will read bddvd rom (blueray) and burn hddvd, and flood the market with hddvd media, and sell them both dirt cheap. slysoft will take care of the rest.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 5:22

525.1.2008 5:42

wow. and i tought i was the only one who flat out disliked hughjars fanatism. in every thread he had to come in and bash the ps3, blu ray or anything not related to hd dvd. im glad im not the only one. im surprise the moderators havent told any of you to stop it. hahaha

535.1.2008 7:31

Somewere i have read that with Warner Bros Blu-Ray have reached the 75% of the movie industry.
If sony loose that chance to win the format war then sony would be just incapable to win any war at all console/media.

545.1.2008 8:42
hughjars
Inactive

Wow, all the PS3 fanatics stroking each other's ego (wow, what skill guys, you guessed that your preferred game console might be attached to the winning side in this, how impressive).

Enjoy it whle you can.

There's wrong and there's wrong btw.
The truth is I did not lie.
Up until the start of this week I was right.

HD DVD did have it all agreed with Warner......

...... right up until this week and then a certain BD studio (*ox) who were in on the negotiations (whether genuinely or to end up spoiling remains unclear) backed out.
Warner changed their minds (with the assistance of $450-$500million) and here we are.

The hard part now comes for Blu-ray.

What if people stick to HD set-top HD TV boxes, upscaling regular DVD & downloads?

What if the PS3 market (and a small amount of stand-alone & PC burner activity) is all that Blu-ray ever gets?

It's easily possible that this win means nothing in the wider sense.

It's my view that Blu-ray is the worst outcome for the consumer.

Given all the anti-consumer elements involved in BD it's easily possible that the general public continue to steer well clear.

So flame away........but underneath it all you all know that there's plenty of 'right' about what I'm saying.

555.1.2008 8:46

yeah we read engadget hd too so we know...

565.1.2008 8:46

Some very interesting quotes from Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6517192.html

Quote:
"One of the things you see in the NPD data for this fourth quarter was that even with a $100 premium, BD set-tops outsold HD set-tops in December," said Sanders. "Even with Toshiba having the lower-cost player in the market, software sales remained 2-to-1 in favor of Blu-ray. Our titles were running roughly 60/40 Blu-ray and that didn't change in the fourth quarter even with the price advantage HD had on the hardware side."

"You also can't underestimate the impact of PS3 as a playback device," Sanders said. "The attachment rate may not be very high, and in fact it isn't, but in the aggregate that still adds up to a lot of software sales."

Attachment rates meant nothing to them.

The Q4 numbers were crucial.

575.1.2008 9:13

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by camaro17:
hughjars, i dont hate you nor do i not like you, i respect that you stick up for your chosen format, but i would recommend that you do not post in this thread, it will save alot of flaming and fighting, so for your own sake man, stay out.

Peace man
Ya wheew... You should pack up and leave town for a while... 'Think some things over :P
lol man

Peace

This is some of the greatest news. Oh and hughjars you just lost one ahahaha. All those months of promoting got you no where. You dogged everybody that told you what their preference was when it wasnt HD-DVD you had some arrogant comment. I never cared about this format war because its truly meaningless. It only means something when you are a retailer or the owner of the format.

585.1.2008 9:27

Upscaling my arse, it will never compete with true HD as theres not enough information on a standard DVD to compete.

595.1.2008 9:30

Originally posted by hughjars:
(with the assistance of $450-$500million)
Can you or someone prove that?

605.1.2008 9:36

Quote:
Some very interesting quotes from Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6517192.html

Quote:
"One of the things you see in the NPD data for this fourth quarter was that even with a $100 premium, BD set-tops outsold HD set-tops in December," said Sanders. "Even with Toshiba having the lower-cost player in the market, software sales remained 2-to-1 in favor of Blu-ray. Our titles were running roughly 60/40 Blu-ray and that didn't change in the fourth quarter even with the price advantage HD had on the hardware side."

"You also can't underestimate the impact of PS3 as a playback device," Sanders said. "The attachment rate may not be very high, and in fact it isn't, but in the aggregate that still adds up to a lot of software sales."

Attachment rates meant nothing to them.

The Q4 numbers were crucial.


I have been saying that for months that attachment rates didn't mean one thing to them they was looking at Hardware & software sells.Also Warner looked at the facts not that BS PR spin Toshiba was trying to pull.With PS3 out sell 360 this holiday didn't help there cause either. Just about everything hughjars said was nothing but Fud trying to lure people away from the truth & facts.I really feel bad if someone listen to him & went out to bought one of these player base off what he said.This is why i posted so much because i hate to see anyone waste there money & being told a bunch of BS.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 9:39

615.1.2008 9:37
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by spydah:
Oh and hughjars you just lost one ahahaha.
- .....and?

Win some, lose some, such is life.

You'll learn.

.....and right up until the start of this week I was right
(as will become clear in time as more of this story comes out......what do you think Toshiba's contract comments are about, hmmmm?).

Originally posted by spydah:
All those months of promoting got you no where. You dogged everybody that told you what their preference was when it wasnt HD-DVD you had some arrogant comment.
- BS

I spent some of my time here putting counter-points to the wave of PS3 fanboy Blu-ray exaggeration, lies, ignorance and unjustified slamming of HD DVD.

I put forward my (informed) POV and the facts as I knew them. That's all.

I merely "dogged" those idiots every time they came here to spread their exaggeration, lies, ignorance and unjustified slamming of HD DVD. That's all.

I had every respect for people who honestly held a different POV and respected an honest disagreement in POVs (which does not mean I had to change mine - nor expected others to change theirs necessarily).

I had little or none for the obvious game console fanboy crowd and still do not.

Originally posted by spydah:
I never cared about this format war because its truly meaningless. It only means something when you are a retailer or the owner of the format.
- Sadly that is simply not correct.

It's only meaningless if you go suck up all that's placed before you without question & along with everything you're told to.

It'll have plenty of meaning when you find that prices do not fall quickly, your equipment no longer operates as easily (if at all) in the way you are used to and that future innovation is stiffled.

Blu-ray was never intended to be a 'kinda better DVD'.

It's specifically intended to stop some of the aspects of DVD that had (in the CE corp's view) taken profit from them.
Blu-ray is not consumer friendly.

Cheer that on all you like but it's the consumer that will suffer (including you).

It's easily possible that Warner's decision has killed the hd market, or at least relegated it to a games console owners niche.

They may well have just grabbed whatever money was on offer and given up on high def going beyond the game console niche.

If BLu-ray really does win completely (a massive 'if') then look forward to regional encoding being ubiquitous and BD+ screwing things up regularly.
We'll be back to the good old days of SD DVD before region free hacks were widely available.
Where UK stores could (without a shred of embarrassment or shame) offer such generous deals as 'buy five, get one free' - with each disc costing twenty quid and stripped of all the extras that the R1 discs had.

But for now sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD are poor and not really taking off, these formats are approaching 2 years in the market and right now neither is selling in anything like a real quantity.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 10:03

625.1.2008 9:59

Quote:
But for now sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD are poor and not really taking off, these formats are approaching 2 years in the market and right now neither is selling in anything like a real quantity.
Very true regarding sales of DVD are still massive, alot of people still arent cluded up to the whole HD genre.
Both discs regarding single layer still does not have enough space for true PCM master audio, therefore DDHD and DTSTrue will be thee standard lossless audio codec, which will mean another upgrade to your existing AV reciever.

All in all it will be awhile before HD truely comes to its own.

635.1.2008 10:06
ali2007
Inactive

Blu-ray was never intended to be a 'kinda better DVD'.

bluray is definateley much more qaulity than hd dvd

but they surely would be some problems associated with bluray although

cheers for hughjars, the man sticks for his word

645.1.2008 10:12

Quote:
Quote:
But for now sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD are poor and not really taking off, these formats are approaching 2 years in the market and right now neither is selling in anything like a real quantity.
Very true regarding sales of DVD are still massive, alot of people still arent cluded up to the whole HD genre.
Both discs regarding single layer still does not have enough space for true PCM master audio, therefore DDHD and DTSTrue will be thee standard lossless audio codec, which will mean another upgrade to your existing AV reciever.

All in all it will be awhile before HD truely comes to its own.
Right now the HD market is growing but not as fast as some Corps want it because of this War but to say that HD market isn't is just crazy on anyone part.With this move this give consumers a clear picture because there are alot of consumer that said they was going to wait this format war out.But now they don't have to anymore so this is going to boost sells even more with these customers that was siting on the fence.DVD market isn't growing & hasn't for last 3 years & have been on a steady decline.Corps are looking for that next boost thats going to get it back going this is why the format war should have been avoided.They wasted two years for nothing & thanks to Microsoft for pushing it even farther.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 10:19

655.1.2008 10:58

Originally posted by hughjars:
Blu-ray was never intended to be a 'kinda better DVD'.

It's specifically intended to stop some of the aspects of DVD that had (in the CE corp's view) taken profit from them.
Blu-ray is not consumer friendly.
This is VERY true. The entire shift to HD optical discs was "rushed" to stop piracy. The BR and HD camps have clouded our minds with these discs that hold "X" GB of data for HD movies. The promise of new copy protection, and a way to charge MORE MONEY for the same old crap has these studios salivating! Couple that with the "large amount of data" making it more difficult to download BR and HD disc images/movies through the existing backbone of the net. (The theory being it would take longer to download a movie and that alone would discourage a lot of pirates.) Never mind the fact that current DVD9 discs are filled with trailers, director's commentary and other useless filler.

The MPAA studios are just trying to stay a step ahead of the RIAA, since music can now be distributed across the globe in seconds, making their precious overpriced CD's practically worthless. "Upgrade the technology" and overprice the media, and that will help us fill our pockets with high margin dollars... until the system is broken in much the same way DVD was. That is why you don't see many BD and HD burners on the market and media is overpriced and scarce.

(Studio Exec: So what you're telling me is that it looks better, sounds better, CAN'T be copied and CAN'T be distributed... so I make TONS of profit! *end greed*)

I'm not waving a giant pirate flag, but I guess the point is, in the end, the format that CAN be pirated is the one that will be the "winner". (And maybe, just MAYBE if one side of this war would be pro-consumer and stop bleeding us for our hard earned dollars, piracy wouldn't be such an issue, now would it?)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 11:05

665.1.2008 11:35

Originally posted by SProdigy:
This is VERY true. The entire shift to HD optical discs was "rushed" to stop piracy. The BR and HD camps have clouded our minds with these discs that hold "X" GB of data for HD movies. The promise of new copy protection, and a way to charge MORE MONEY for the same old crap has these studios salivating! Couple that with the "large amount of data" making it more difficult to download BR and HD disc images/movies through the existing backbone of the net. (The theory being it would take longer to download a movie and that alone would discourage a lot of pirates.) Never mind the fact that current DVD9 discs are filled with trailers, director's commentary and other useless filler.
Not really because the move to HD media was about money because Corps was worry that DVD format has been in a decline for 3 years.To say it was about copy protection isn't even close to the real matter.The only reason BDA move to use BD+ because of FOX & MGM who said they was going to put there media with the format with the most protection, it wasn't Sony or BDA fault it was Fox & MGM that wanted extra copy protection.BDA was all set to use AACS encryption.This is why it took FOX & MGM so long to put a movie on BD because they was willing to wait til BD+ was ready.Its was always about who was going to hold the most patent which =the most money.

Fox and MGM are even said to have ceased releasing new Blu-ray disc titles due to the lack of BD+ availability

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/T...s_to_Follow/712
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 12:05

675.1.2008 12:08

About Copy Protection etc all this about BD is BS
If HD-DVD was going to be the dominate format, i am sure that some Copy Protection system would apply to HD-DVD too.There is no doubt about that.

685.1.2008 12:28

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
About Copy Protection etc all this about BD is BS
If HD-DVD was going to be the dominate format, i am sure that some Copy Protection system would apply to HD-DVD too.There is no doubt about that.
HD DVD does have a copy protection system that is cracked. They also have the option to add new protection systems. BD+, one virsion had been slightly cracked, but it is a constantly changing copy protection system. What may crack some of it today may not work next week. I dont copy movies, so I dont care. BTW, Transformers is the most pirated move in HD.

695.1.2008 12:51
llongtheD
Inactive

I haven't committed to either format yet, but if the sony fanboys want DRM crippled devices and discs, let them have it. I have looked at both, and I really can't tell visually which one is a superior format. I think the only real difference is that Sony was more willing to "bribe" studios into using their format. I just wish this ridiculous format war was over so we could just move on.
Does anyone really believe any of these large corporations really have the consumers best interests in mind?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 12:55

If your fish seems sick, put it back in the water.

705.1.2008 12:59

The age really shows on a lot of the immature comments!

If someone would be so kind as to post the official Warner Bros. link which states this Blu-Ray support. I don't believe nonsense announcements from sites other then the real source. I don't watch news so I never heard the announcement, but I have yet to see anything posted on an actual Warner Bros. site.

Why would everyone be happy about this. Lets get one Hi-Def format so there would be no competition thus meaning a standard price for many years. Lets have copy protection shoved in our faces and the false illusion that Blu-Ray is better quality just because of it's larger disc capacity.

Hughjars makes a lot of good points, prefer reading his comments over all the bashful, angry, rude comments that diminish what Afterdawn is all about.

Half you people dissing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray probably don't even have those players or even a good enough TV to notice a difference between Standard and High-Definition so why even have an input, it'll just clog these forums with nonsense and further misinform those who are looking for help or which product to buy.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 13:07

715.1.2008 13:19
red2tango
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by spydah:
Oh and hughjars you just lost one ahahaha.
- .....and?

Win some, lose some, such is life.

You'll learn.

.....and right up until the start of this week I was right
(as will become clear in time as more of this story comes out......what do you think Toshiba's contract comments are about, hmmmm?).

Originally posted by spydah:
All those months of promoting got you no where. You dogged everybody that told you what their preference was when it wasnt HD-DVD you had some arrogant comment.
- BS

I spent some of my time here putting counter-points to the wave of PS3 fanboy Blu-ray exaggeration, lies, ignorance and unjustified slamming of HD DVD.

I put forward my (informed) POV and the facts as I knew them. That's all.

I merely "dogged" those idiots every time they came here to spread their exaggeration, lies, ignorance and unjustified slamming of HD DVD. That's all.

I had every respect for people who honestly held a different POV and respected an honest disagreement in POVs (which does not mean I had to change mine - nor expected others to change theirs necessarily).

I had little or none for the obvious game console fanboy crowd and still do not.
you're crazy.nobody ever bashed hd-dvd.it was you who always bashed Blu-ray on every single news topic that appeared.

"Blah Blah Blah and Blu-ray players are expensive.HD-DVD Players are $100 dollars so it's obvious they're going to win Blah Blah Blah.

YOU ARE THE FANBOY!

Warner went over to Blu-ray because of its sales. There was no money involved unlike HD-DVD's side (cough cough Microsoft?).

Get a grip and go buy yourself a Blu-ray player.

I have a Playstation 3 and I use it mostly for gaming and I buy Blu-ray movies so you're wrong to believe that Playstation 3 owners don't even care about having both. Now most Blu-ray players are going to be less than the 40GB Playstation 3 so more and more people are going to buy it. Not only that, Sony took a gamble and they won it. If they won the format war, they automatically win the console war. And guess what? They're outselling the Xbox 360 worldwide. Once NPD numbers come in (North American stats only), we'll see that even Playstation 3 destroyed Xbox 360 on its own turf.

I'm happy that I didn't have to buy an add-on for my Xbox 3FixMe if HD-DVD won but i was confident in Blu-Ray sales to know not to.

PEACE!

725.1.2008 13:28
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by chubbyInc:

Half you people dissing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray probably don't even have those players or even a good enough TV to notice a difference between Standard and High-Definition so why even have an input, it'll just clog these forums with nonsense and further misinform those who are looking for help or which product to buy.
I know I do. Brand new Sharp 1080P 42". Best TV you'll ever have for the price. I got a PS3 for Christmas, but I only had component cables which outputted to 1080I. Now that I have a HDMI cable, I see a big difference from 1080I to 1080P just in the menu screen alone. So I would have to pick Blu-Ray over HD-DVD because all BR players are 1080I, where as only like one is 1080P for HD-DVD(?) and I can get a BR player for the same price as that one.

PS3 does a great job upscaling BTW...

735.1.2008 13:31
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by red2tango:


you're crazy.nobody ever bashed hd-dvd.it was you who always bashed Blu-ray on every single news topic that appeared.

"Blah Blah Blah and Blu-ray players are expensive.HD-DVD Players are $100 dollars so it's obvious they're going to win Blah Blah Blah.

YOU ARE THE FANBOY!

Warner went over to Blu-ray because of its sales. There was no money involved unlike HD-DVD's side (cough cough Microsoft?).

Get a grip and go buy yourself a Blu-ray player.


Agreed.

745.1.2008 14:12

Hughjars, I'm on your side. You win some, and lose some. I have always been an HD-DVD fan, and never once did I think that this would end up in their favor. HD-DVD eventually would have been the wiser choice for consumers, but money talks, and Sony paid. This IS a huge blow to the HD community. It is a shame that so many people agreed on how much BR is better than HD-DVD. I guess they are blinded by the expensive, software corrupted players. Screw Sony, PS3, and BR. Never have owned Sony equipment, and never will. Live it up guys. Sony finally wins one. And what a shame it is.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 14:16

755.1.2008 14:22

Indeed a sad day for HD DVD, but even so Blu-Ray supporters should be objective and keep in mind that it's you as consumers that will suffer and lose out. If HD DVD really does losses the high def market then Blu-Ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices for their BD players and movies, even adoping a more consumer friendly policy by dropping their DRM such as BD+ and Regional Coding, even to finalise the specs properly that none of their current BD players has.

It's sad that you as consumers failed to recognize that HD DVD offered you a much more consumer friendly scenario than Blu-Ray right from the start, with full specs players even with top grade upscaling SD DVD capabilities at much more accesible prices, movies with no Regional Coding even HD DVD/SD DVD combos, all of this was done to let you know that they were looking out to favour consumers more than movie studio's interests.

If people are irritated with the timing of Warner's announcement, then it's about time you should realize that movie studios have very little concern for your customer's interest (yes, they should had announced this before Christmas) don't allow this to blind you from the fact that Blu-Ray is not consumer-friendly, that has used you as beta testers with unfinished products that eventually will be useless, that it's intent is to cripple your freedom to use and view movies as you wish to, and has only movie studios interests in mind.

DVD sales are down not because people were waiting for a resolution in the HD media war, but rather the lack of appealing titles worth purchasing. In previous years DVD sales were much higher because of the release of blockbuster classic 80s and 90s titles, but know that pretty much everybody owns those movies they wished for on DVD, there are less options to choose from, since only a few of the new releases are worth buying.

When you add to this the overpricing of DVD, HD DVD and Blu-Ray titles, most consumers have avoided double dipping for a ultimate extreme collectors special re-release of a movie they already own, even if that movie is now availible on HD DVD or Blu-Ray... simple as that.

Currently a HD DVD / Blu-Ray edition is priced almost twice than a DVD special edition... we should make it clear that we are all tired of paying DRM overpriced DVD movies, and in order to keep buying from them, we need a significant reduction in price, specially if they want us to support HD DVD and Blu-Ray in the following years.

Nobody is disputing that HD DVD / Blu-Ray offers an improvement in audiovisual quality compared to DVD, but keep in mind that such improvement isn't enough to justify buying the same movies again at even higher prices than we did (and still do) for them in DVD format, specially when you can achieve similar results (not equal) viewing current DVD titles throw upscaling DVD players.

I believe that the best option is if indeed the winner of the HD format war is Blu-Ray, it should work simultaneously with DVD for the next 10+ years, rather than trying to debunk DVD as the dominant vehicle for consumer video. Because billions around the world have at least one DVD player at home, with their own DVD movies and TV series collection, which could go from hundreds to thousands of titles, which you can back them up/transfer them to mobile players if you wish, much quicker and easier than HD DVD / Blu-Ray movies.

The fact is that more than 95% of consumers don't feel the rush to replace their DVD titles to even more overpriced HD DVD / Blu-Ray titles, nor spending thousands of $$$'s to upgrade all their equipment, merely because of an audiovisual improvement, there should be more than that, specially when the movie studios expect us to pay full price again for a movie we already own.

Reducing current retail prices by half and allow consumers to choose either a special DVD edition at $10-15 SRP or an HD DVD / Blu-Ray edition at $20-25 SRP, will appeal consumers to buy more movies than they currently do (even double dipping already own titles) and undeniably stores could offer discount prices to promote higher sales... otherwise it's you as consumers that will suffer and lose out.

765.1.2008 15:07
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by chuckdog:
Hughjars, I'm on your side. You win some, and lose some. I have always been an HD-DVD fan, and never once did I think that this would end up in their favor. HD-DVD eventually would have been the wiser choice for consumers, but money talks, and Sony paid. This IS a huge blow to the HD community. It is a shame that so many people agreed on how much BR is better than HD-DVD. I guess they are blinded by the expensive, software corrupted players. Screw Sony, PS3, and BR. Never have owned Sony equipment, and never will. Live it up guys. Sony finally wins one. And what a shame it is.
You must be one of 'dem 360 folk...

775.1.2008 15:18
vinny13
Inactive

The prices of Blu-Ray movies aren't going to go up too much now... I don't know what you guys are thinking. They try to find new ways for cheaper production all the time. As it gets lower and lower prices will drop. Right now as it was in one artical there aren't to many disc companies producing any of these formats because of this stupid "war". Now with these better odds of Blu-Ray being the replacement for DVD within the next 10 years, surely some of these companies will begin to jump on board.

As for stand-alones, same thing applies. I guarentee you that we will be seeing cheaper BR players by next Christmas as some of the cheaper brands like Sanyo and RCA as well as the store brands jump in too.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 15:20

785.1.2008 15:26

BD players from the China Group have already been Pre-CES anounced. Competition from all of the BD CE's will lower prices. With HD DVD now gone, only one competing CE has been removed. There is no reason that Tosh cant start making Blu players in the near furture.

795.1.2008 16:34
ali2007
Inactive

Indeed a sad day for HD DVD, but even so Blu-Ray supporters should be objective and keep in mind that it's you as consumers that will suffer and lose out. If HD DVD really does losses the high def market then Blu-Ray has no incentive to seriously cut prices for their BD players and movies, even adoping a more consumer friendly policy by dropping their DRM such as BD+ and Regional Coding, even to finalise the specs properly that none of their current BD players has

as if hd dvd wouldb't be expensive try to look from other side i don't why a single company sony is targetted , i know sony is wrong but every other company is wrong, not only sony

805.1.2008 16:39

I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.

815.1.2008 17:56
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by sciascia:
I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.
Geah, 'dem HD-DVD fellers been oll ova the place wit this stuff.

825.1.2008 18:05

Originally posted by sciascia:
I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.
If there was a payoff then we will know because you can't move that much money without it showing on the money market.New York daily News caught the HD-DVD deal.Microsoft paid the money 50 million to Paramount & 100 million to Dream works.

835.1.2008 18:59
caliph
Inactive

holy batman!

845.1.2008 19:03
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by sciascia:
I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.
- $1+ billion split between Fox & Warner.

Of course you won't be seeing "official word"of it anywhere and you won't be seeing it on any results balance sheet either.

(just as there is no actual proof af the Paramount deal to be seen on any balance sheet - which, if anecdotal comment is true, in any event was a deal involving publicity on behalf of; not a direct payment to anyone - these guys can easily hide that sort of thing if they want to, even sums like $1+ billion).

855.1.2008 19:44

I think it was 2 billion and a free PS3.

865.1.2008 21:14

Ebay just went HD DVD exclusive!!!

875.1.2008 23:44
vinny13
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by sciascia:
I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.
- $1+ billion split between Fox & Warner.

Of course you won't be seeing "official word"of it anywhere and you won't be seeing it on any results balance sheet either.

(just as there is no actual proof af the Paramount deal to be seen on any balance sheet - which, if anecdotal comment is true, in any event was a deal involving publicity on behalf of; not a direct payment to anyone - these guys can easily hide that sort of thing if they want to, even sums like $1+ billion).
Blah Blah Blah

885.1.2008 23:46
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by glasssd:
Ebay just went HD DVD exclusive!!!
Huh?

896.1.2008 2:48

Quote:
Originally posted by sciascia:
I would like to see the official word on the pay off (if any) sony made to get Warner to jump, and I'm not talking about stupid fanboy claims and unofficial numbers or 'news' articles. Give some cold hard proof of a pay off and the real numbers involved.

Although, even with proof of a pay off, saying so is a moot point, I'm sure nobody has forgotten the $150M Paramount deal.
- $1+ billion split between Fox & Warner.

Of course you won't be seeing "official word"of it anywhere and you won't be seeing it on any results balance sheet either.

(just as there is no actual proof af the Paramount deal to be seen on any balance sheet - which, if anecdotal comment is true, in any event was a deal involving publicity on behalf of; not a direct payment to anyone - these guys can easily hide that sort of thing if they want to, even sums like $1+ billion).
kinda low for such a thing, also link(of the rumor) or it didn't happen :P

906.1.2008 3:18

Quote:
Originally posted by glasssd:
Ebay just went HD DVD exclusive!!!
Huh?
Thats a joke that everyone will offload their hddvd collections on ebay.

916.1.2008 3:31

Originally posted by hughjars:
these guys can easily hide that sort of thing if they want to, even sums like $1+ billion).

i don't think its quite as "easy" as you feel to "hide" sums of money that large, but w/e.

well i suppose my "ramblings" were a little more than just that. i argued time and time again hardware sales figures, attachment rates, chinese players were all insignificant pieces to the larger puzzle. this warner deal does raise the red flag on viacom's statement back when. what was that about? oh well doesn't really matter now does it? Transformers will hit Blu-ray within another year or two, that i can guarantee. although i still do wonder whatever that HUGE CES ANNOUNCEMENT THAT WOULD HAVE YOU GRINNING WAS GOING TO BE, OLE HUGHJARS?

too many never understood the whole "playstation effect." instead most of the people argued sony's past format experiences. apparently the inclusion of blu-ray has paid off.

if you seriously think universal/paramount are going to save or even prolong HD-DVD, then i guess i shouldn't joke and say the sky is falling as you'd probably duck and run for cover. not even two of the largest studios can withstand the collective lineup that'll be offered on Blu-ray so again as i said SOOOOOO many times, and im sure im just "rambling" again, its all about the CONTENT which has ALWAYS FAVORED Blu-ray. wow, what fantastic xmas gifts those hd-dvd players made this past holiday season. now im being a bit cruel because im sure the players were bought with good intentions, but i did say awhile back consumers were going to pay a price from all this. oh well.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 3:37

926.1.2008 3:31

I checked ebay and they still have blu-ray. So what do you mean they gone HDDVD exclusive???

936.1.2008 3:44

Originally posted by rainofire:
I checked ebay and they still have blu-ray. So what do you mean they gone HDDVD exclusive???
its a joke, if everyone dumps their HDVD stuff on ebay its gone ebay "exclusive".

Guy 1:I just unloaded some collectibles on ebay!
guy 2:you mean your 8track collection?
guy 1:Ya its gone ebay exclusive!

soemthign like that.

946.1.2008 5:55

New Line is also Going Blu-Ray EXCLUSIVE!!!!

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978...oryid=1009&cs=1
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=808

Following Warner's lead, sister company New Line has confirmed that it will support Blu-ray Disc high def releases exclusively. New Line has previously delayed their day-and-date new releases on HD DVD due to the format's lack of region coding, effectively making titles such as Shoot 'em Up, Hairspray, and Rush Hour 3 exclusive to Blu-ray. Although a 2008 release slate for the studio has not been released, an announcement may be possible at this year's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.


Sorry Hughjars. Burn hddvd Burn.

956.1.2008 6:04

Originally posted by ringwar:
New Line is also Going Blu-Ray EXCLUSIVE!!!!

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117978...oryid=1009&cs=1
http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=808

Following Warner's lead, sister company New Line has confirmed that it will support Blu-ray Disc high def releases exclusively. New Line has previously delayed their day-and-date new releases on HD DVD due to the format's lack of region coding, effectively making titles such as Shoot 'em Up, Hairspray, and Rush Hour 3 exclusive to Blu-ray. Although a 2008 release slate for the studio has not been released, an announcement may be possible at this year's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.


Sorry Hughjars. Burn hddvd Burn.

Its still not uni and paramount, but HDVD is hurting from this and tis making for a interesting year already!

966.1.2008 14:54

Here is everyone's chance to flame me. Universal will go neutral with in this Month. Paramont will Live out their contract for the rest of the year.

976.1.2008 15:02

Lots of ps3 fanboys LOL.

986.1.2008 16:17
ali2007
Inactive

Here is everyone's chance to flame me. Universal will go neutral with in this Month. Paramont will Live out their contract for the rest of the year.

we need facts not gossip

996.1.2008 16:26

Is that what you told Hug when he kept talking about the HUGE anouncement at CES from HD DVD. I feel that this would be a Logical decesion.

1006.1.2008 17:08

Blu-ray is on the way to just being another stagnate proprietary game console format with a relatively tiny amount of standalone & PC burner activity tacked on.


Who farted ?

1016.1.2008 17:36
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by HughFart:
Blu-ray is on the way to just being another stagnate proprietary game console format with a relatively tiny amount of standalone & PC burner activity tacked on.
Lmao who is this guy :S

1026.1.2008 21:04

Originally posted by HughFart:
Blu-ray is on the way to just being another stagnate proprietary game console format with a relatively tiny amount of standalone & PC burner activity tacked on.
If it was not backed by movie studios I would believe it.

1036.1.2008 21:20

Well if Warner Brothers throws it support behind Blu-Ray then we will have a definite winner. They are the biggest movie studio. The only thing i wish they would do and i have been advocating this from day one is that if they could bring both Blu-Ray and HD DVD formats out and bring one player that can play both formats and can charge a little bit higher than a standalone DVD player that only plays one of the two formats.

1046.1.2008 21:27

Originally posted by borhan9:
Well if Warner Brothers throws it support behind Blu-Ray then we will have a definite winner. They are the biggest movie studio. The only thing i wish they would do and i have been advocating this from day one is that if they could bring both Blu-Ray and HD DVD formats out and bring one player that can play both formats and can charge a little bit higher than a standalone DVD player that only plays one of the two formats.
the only trouble with that is BR hardware is not cheap, dual lens is not cheap, sure the ahrdware can be about 250$ with 1080 support and soem mid range audio outputs but the lens and tech royalties are another 400-500$.

I believe if BR can effect a a 30-60% price drop they will start a cascade effect that will win them the war but until BR can effect its won price not much will leak out of the niche market BR/HDVD is in.

1056.1.2008 22:10

Originally posted by ali2007:
Here is everyone's chance to flame me. Universal will go neutral with in this Month. Paramont will Live out their contract for the rest of the year.

we need facts not gossip
Insiders have hinted at it, but MSNBC has stated that Universal was asked flat out today about their intentions and they wont make a statement at this time. ?????

1066.1.2008 22:37
vinny13
Inactive

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V

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 22:40

1076.1.2008 22:39
vinny13
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by ali2007:
Here is everyone's chance to flame me. Universal will go neutral with in this Month. Paramont will Live out their contract for the rest of the year.

we need facts not gossip
Insiders have hinted at it, but MSNBC has stated that Universal was asked flat out today about their intentions and they wont make a statement at this time. ?????
They've probably haven't made a decision yet. With Warner now down, I would switch because unless a miracle happens for HD-DVD then they're only going to sell less as HD-DVD slowly bleeds out. I wonder how Toshiba is going to handle this in the coming months...

It was bad enough already.

1086.1.2008 23:36

Sony had better watch. They, unlike toshiba,are considered "competition" to warner fox and disney yet entering into an agreement to "limit" competition is a highly illegal maneuver. Just visit the federal trade commission’s website.

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/index.shtml

Toshiba by courting paramount was simply leveling the playing field and they do not own media interests, yet sony is essentially using unfair business practices to eliminate the competition...instead of the proper way by competing with, price, features, and product quality. Then, letting the consumer decide. They're walking a thin line.

1096.1.2008 23:59

Originally posted by lordesq:
Sony had better watch. They, unlike toshiba,are considered "competition" to warner fox and disney yet entering into an agreement to "limit" competition is a highly illegal maneuver. Just visit the federal trade commission’s website.

http://www.ftc.gov/bc/index.shtml

Toshiba by courting paramount was simply leveling the playing field and they do not own media interests, yet sony is essentially using unfair business practices to eliminate the competition...instead of the proper way by competing with, price, features, and product quality. Then, letting the consumer decide. They're walking a thin line.
On the world stage illicit things become legal, sony is not the core of BR but do have enough sway to aid it, in the end the media companies themselfs not the consumer decide the format, the emdia compnies are the ones to back and create the formats and tech to then sale tothe consumer but they have a long road to win the consumer so these deals and backbiteing and whatever are all part of how the game is played.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1107.1.2008 0:16

Originally posted by lordesq:
Sony had better watch. They, unlike toshiba,are considered "competition" to warner fox and disney yet entering into an agreement to "limit" competition is a highly illegal maneuver.
Warner Home Video sits on the Board of the BluRay Disc Association (BDA). This decision was made by the studio as a member of the BDA.

There may have been incentives involved but you can be sure all parties had teams of lawyers going over the details before Warner made the announcement.

This is probably why Warner is still releasing HD DVD titles until the end of May. I think they have a contract with HD DVD that expires this June.

1117.1.2008 0:29

Well just because warner and or sony may have sheilded themselves from a heavy lawsuit doesn't mean that what they're doing is kosher. I mean what the hell is the BDA association anyway. Its a consortium of electronic companies and movie studios. This is no government body! It means nothing.

But look at it this way. The worst thing that could happen to warner is that they are told to give back the 1/2 billion dollars and forced to make movies for HDDVD. So really how could they turn down what equaits to a spiderman release in the wake of a writers strike and falling profits. Its a no brainer for them to take a slight risk.

As for sony their ps3 sales trail 360 and wii sales and they have everything to loose so for them to try this tactict, as well, is a no brainer. This still doesn't make it legal.

1127.1.2008 0:40

Quote:
Originally posted by ali2007:
Here is everyone's chance to flame me. Universal will go neutral with in this Month. Paramont will Live out their contract for the rest of the year.

we need facts not gossip
Insiders have hinted at it, but MSNBC has stated that Universal was asked flat out today about their intentions and they wont make a statement at this time. ?????
I can't wait to hear what they got to say after all that tongue lashing that HD-DVD Fan boy Ken Graffeo did.I ready to hear him eat his words.He really ticked my nerves.

1137.1.2008 0:47

Quote:
Originally posted by lordesq:
Sony had better watch. They, unlike toshiba,are considered "competition" to warner fox and disney yet entering into an agreement to "limit" competition is a highly illegal maneuver.
Warner Home Video sits on the Board of the BluRay Disc Association (BDA). This decision was made by the studio as a member of the BDA.

There may have been incentives involved but you can be sure all parties had teams of lawyers going over the details before Warner made the announcement.

This is probably why Warner is still releasing HD DVD titles until the end of May. I think they have a contract with HD DVD that expires this June.
this explains the reason for the change of heart and dropping of HDVD stuff, they are closer to the BR core than some of the others.

1147.1.2008 0:52

Look at it this way: Warner going BluRay exclusive doesn't "limit the competition" as you say.

Sony is not the only CE manufacturer making BluRay players. It has competition from Samsung, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG, Philips, etc.

Warner Home Video is not the only studio releasing titles. There's competition from Sony, Disney, MGM, Fox, etc.

Plus there's competition from regular DVD, Video On Demand, and Video downloads.

1157.1.2008 2:37

I don't think you're getting me. We're talking about High Definition Disc Distribution. Not downloads, not dvd, not VHS...(thats a little joke). Cellphones and Plain old telephone lines are regulated differently because they are infact different, although they serve similar purposes. We are also not talking about content.

Try this perspective. Since its inseption Bluray and HDDVD have gone down in price from over $1,000 to (right now on amazon for an HDDVD player) $178. The movies have gone from 30 bucks a pop to bogo deals left and right. That's because there has been competition. What sony has done is, realizing that they cannot compete in price, have negotiated with the "competing studios" to sell movies on their format exclusively. This is the very defenition of unfair business practice. I emplore you to read on the Federal Trade Commision's website about competition. If the format war never existed and everybody agreed at the beginning to produce a singular format you would still have players at the $500 or higher level. Do you think bluray players will come down to sub $200 levels now? Not anytime soon! Especially if Sony wants to continue to sell PS3's.

1167.1.2008 3:24

Originally posted by lordesq:
I don't think you're getting me. We're talking about High Definition Disc Distribution. Not downloads, not dvd, not VHS...(thats a little joke). Cellphones and Plain old telephone lines are regulated differently because they are infact different, although they serve similar purposes. We are also not talking about content.

Try this perspective. Since its inseption Bluray and HDDVD have gone down in price from over $1,000 to (right now on amazon for an HDDVD player) $178. The movies have gone from 30 bucks a pop to bogo deals left and right. That's because there has been competition. What sony has done is, realizing that they cannot compete in price, have negotiated with the "competing studios" to sell movies on their format exclusively. This is the very defenition of unfair business practice. I emplore you to read on the Federal Trade Commision's website about competition. If the format war never existed and everybody agreed at the beginning to produce a singular format you would still have players at the $500 or higher level. Do you think bluray players will come down to sub $200 levels now? Not anytime soon! Especially if Sony wants to continue to sell PS3's.
I think Sony just said there is going to be a blue ray drive avaialable for your computer for $200. This sucks - I just bought a HD DVD player around thanksgiving for $179 and now I'm gonna have to shell out the $400 for a blue ray.

1177.1.2008 8:23

Originally posted by lordesq:
What sony has done is, realizing that they cannot compete in price, have negotiated with the "competing studios" to sell movies on their format exclusively.
Actually BluRay was competing very well against HD DVD. BluRay movies have been outselling HD DVD for 54 weeks straight prior to the Warner announcement. (Just look at the Nielsen/Videoscan sales data.) That's even with a disadvantage in player prices. At the Toshiba presentation at CES 2008 yesterday they even acknowledged indirectly that BluRay was also catching up in standalone player sales.

Quote:
This is the very defenition of unfair business practice.
Let's say Warner accepted a $500 million offer from HD DVD to drop BluRay then BluRay eventually loses. By your definition this would be a case of "limiting the competition", an unfair business practice, and would therefore be illegal. Am I right?

Actually this was what was about to happen. Warner was ready to side with HD DVD until a last minute deal was struck. There was supposed to be a very big announcement at their CES party last night - which was cancelled BTW. Let's face it, BluRay had the better negotiating team and pulled off a great business deal. HD DVD have no one else to blame but themselves for letting Warner slip through their fingers.

1187.1.2008 10:15

Originally posted by juankerr:
Originally posted by lordesq:
What sony has done is, realizing that they cannot compete in price, have negotiated with the "competing studios" to sell movies on their format exclusively.
Actually BluRay was competing very well against HD DVD. BluRay movies have been outselling HD DVD for 54 weeks straight prior to the Warner announcement. (Just look at the Nielsen/Videoscan sales data.) That's even with a disadvantage in player prices. At the Toshiba presentation at CES 2008 yesterday they even acknowledged indirectly that BluRay was also catching up in standalone player sales.

Quote:
This is the very defenition of unfair business practice.
Let's say Warner accepted a $500 million offer from HD DVD to drop BluRay then BluRay eventually loses. By your definition this would be a case of "limiting the competition", an unfair business practice, and would therefore be illegal. Am I right?

Actually this was what was about to happen. Warner was ready to side with HD DVD until a last minute deal was struck. There was supposed to be a very big announcement at their CES party last night - which was cancelled BTW. Let's face it, BluRay had the better negotiating team and pulled off a great business deal. HD DVD have no one else to blame but themselves for letting Warner slip through their fingers.

Selling very well? I don't think so with the number of players BR has out they should have a 3-6 to 1 lead not a pitfall 2 to 1 lead, yes BR is doing alttile better but it the scheme of things its not by much and certainly not enough for a studio to jump formats on "consumer" issues, its a pure "green" deal nothing less nothing more its a shame ti had to be warner who wanted to sale on both formats and not be tied down by the high costs of BR production and royilies, but in the end 1 format one format is probably better for the consumer in the short run.. havign the market compete with itself one tech is more simple and can wind up lowering prices faster as long as there is no price fixing "from above".

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1197.1.2008 10:38

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I don't think so with the number of players BR has out they should have a 3-6 to 1 lead not a pitfall 2 to 1 lead, yes BR is doing alttile better but it the scheme of things its not by much and certainly not enough for a studio to jump formats on "consumer" issues
The problem with that argument is that the you conveniently include the PS3 numbers when you talk about software sales ratios or attachment rates then you conveniently remove the PS3 from the picture when you talk about player sales. You can't have it both ways.

The difficulty lies in the fact that no one knows for sure how many use the PS3 to watch BluRay and how much BD movies the PS3 owners buy. The "PS3 effect" is an unknown quantity.

The bottom line is the BluRay side played the game perfectly. They knew when they had to make their moves and caught HD DVD with their pants down. error5 and juankerr are right. Whoever managed to pull this off were geniuses.

For now I'm keeping my 2 HD DVD players and my HD DVD collection of about 100 movies. I still have my PS3 but I'm looking out for that new Panasonic BD50 with internal DTS HD MA and True HD decoding and BD Live 2.0 specs.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Jan 2008 @ 10:42

1207.1.2008 10:48

Originally posted by eatsushi:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I don't think so with the number of players BR has out they should have a 3-6 to 1 lead not a pitfall 2 to 1 lead, yes BR is doing alttile better but it the scheme of things its not by much and certainly not enough for a studio to jump formats on "consumer" issues
The problem with that argument is that the you conveniently include the PS3 numbers when you talk about software sales ratios or attachment rates then you conveniently remove the PS3 from the picture when you talk about player sales. You can't have it both ways.

The difficulty lies in the fact that no one knows for sure how many use the PS3 to watch BluRay and how much BD movies the PS3 owners buy. The "PS3 effect" is an unknown quantity.

The bottom line is the BluRay side played the game perfectly. They knew when they had to make their moves and caught HD DVD with their pants down. error5 and juankerr are right. Whoever managed to pull this off were geniuses.
Its rather easy to reduce the PS3 sales numbers to 30 or 50% will still give a a huge lead to BR in terms of player sales numbers which are not really fermenting disc sales in the amounts it should be.

In any case the format war is not over and BR has only a 60-70% chance of victory as things are.

Dose anyone know when they are going to drop prices again or when they when the blu diode will be cheaper to produce, when BR gets cheaper the end will come quickly and frankly its about time.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1217.1.2008 11:05

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
BR has only a 60-70% chance of victory as things are.
How did you figure that?

1227.1.2008 11:27

Originally posted by eatsushi:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
BR has only a 60-70% chance of victory as things are.
How did you figure that?
the future is uncertain, if paramount and uni go daul thats 75-85% chance of victory, if one or both go BR exclusive 85-90%.

and yes this is 100% tatained with the foul odor of my poo maker but for now BR dose not have a 90%+ chance to win the Hdef war, if other things fall into place they will gain it for sure but for now they only own alil more than half of the niche Hdef market.

In comparison HDVD has a 20-40% chance of winning the Hdef war currently, and I would still give 20-35%(or 2-3.5 in 10) chance at them joining forces but with ever year that passes that drops 10% so if by 09 no end is in sight and HDVD is still in the market even if by 20-30% the chances of a joint venture for media is 10-15%, hell by 09 the Hdef format war could well be over.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1237.1.2008 11:41

BLUE-RAY THUGH LIFE HOMIES! CRAZY BLUE-RAY FOR LIFE! N WHUT!

1247.1.2008 11:52

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
if one or both go BR exclusive 85-90%.
85 - 90%? You're kidding right?

If one goes BR exclusive the other is sure to follow then it's game over. HD DVD cannot survive without one of the big 6 studios.

1257.1.2008 12:01

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
if one or both go BR exclusive 85-90%.
85 - 90%? You're kidding right?

If one goes BR exclusive the other is sure to follow then it's game over. HD DVD cannot survive without one of the big 6 studios.
first off there is no such thing as 100%, there are also 2ndary markets where HDVD could be viable thus keeping it aloft for years, there are also economic issues to worry about the market could just fall apart or be damaged beyond vision, what would happen if the US falls into a great depression in 3 years time and it slows the world economy just enough, there are to many circumstances to state anythign over 90/95% butI will say that90% is praticaly a win.

1267.1.2008 12:15

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
there are also 2ndary markets where HDVD could be viable thus keeping it aloft for years,
Do you mean p0rn?

1277.1.2008 12:20

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
there are also 2ndary markets where HDVD could be viable thus keeping it aloft for years,
Do you mean p0rn?

Storage,porn,cams,ect,ect if its cheaper than BR to make mini HDVD discs and what not its very viable for 2ndry markets,frankly it would make for a better console format than BR just for the roylity and production costs alone but in 2+ years out thos might be more manageable than they are currently.. oh gwad...I jsut said nintendo would use HDVD in the furture didn't I....with their pension for "obsruce" formats it has to coem to be LOL.
:P

1287.1.2008 12:41

Let's say Warner accepted a $500 million offer from HD DVD to drop BluRay then BluRay eventually loses. By your definition this would be a case of "limiting the competition", an unfair business practice, and would therefore be illegal. Am I right?

Actually this was what was about to happen. Warner was ready to side with HD DVD until a last minute deal was struck. There was supposed to be a very big announcement at their CES party last night - which was cancelled BTW. Let's face it, BluRay had the better negotiating team and pulled off a great business deal. HD DVD have no one else to blame but themselves for letting Warner slip through their fingers.


Absolutley. I'm not a fanboy, just using logic. If Toshiba did the same thing it would still be limiting the competition. Its slightly less offensive because toshiba does not own a movie production studio and is not in competition with warner. I happen to own both a ps3 and a HDDVD standalone...I actually don't think the blu ray is superior. They both do exactly the same thing.

1297.1.2008 13:39

HD movies on USB thumb drives is the future, who wants a fragile disc anyways.

Scrap the whole Blu-Ray and HD-DVD
Concentrate on USB stick which can vary in sizes (because not all HD movies require 25-50 GBs), gives the same HD quality and will last longer than any crappy disc. Think of the consumers for once.

If any company wants to prevail as leader bring out the HD-USB movie stick!!!

1307.1.2008 13:45

Originally posted by chubbyInc:
HD movies on USB thumb drives is the future, who wants a fragile disc anyways.

Scrap the whole Blu-Ray and HD-DVD
Concentrate on USB stick which can vary in sizes (because not all HD movies require 25-50 GBs), gives the same HD quality and will last longer than any crappy disc. Think of the consumers for once.

If any company wants to prevail as leader bring out the HD-USB movie stick!!!
USB(flash,ect)? I don't think so not with it still being 8-13$ per GB, now if, disc will be viable for the movie industry for 10-20 years until they can make a 20-50GB storage device thats small and under 20$.

It will take more than 20 years for the world to become "rich" enough in bandwidth for the media industry's to sale "data" direct to the consumer on a world wide basis so discs are good for the next 15 years easily.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Jan 2008 @ 13:47

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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1317.1.2008 14:25

ooh I don't know about 20yrs. I can download a movie on my 360 in about 40min in 720p hd today. I think in the next couple of years discs will serve as a stepping stone to downloads...although we'll need something to put those discs on...my biggest complaint about the 360 is that the movies are only good for one view or 14 days from download. I want to be able to download an hd movie and then burn it so I can keep it. A combo of a download service with jvc's hd dvd solution would be loads better than the current solutions.

1327.1.2008 14:36

Originally posted by lordesq:
ooh I don't know about 20yrs. I can download a movie on my 360 in about 40min in 720p hd today. I think in the next couple of years discs will serve as a stepping stone to downloads...although we'll need something to put those discs on...my biggest complaint about the 360 is that the movies are only good for one view or 14 days from download. I want to be able to download an hd movie and then burn it so I can keep it. A combo of a download service with jvc's hd dvd solution would be loads better than the current solutions.
*falls off chair*
If they can not sale in volume world wide they can not make a profit, there is not enough users world wide to sustain the indutry on digital download alone thus why you are looking at 10+ years before the switch to it, just because you and 500K-1M people who can download a HD movie in less than an hour dosen't mean the 1B worth of the populace that spends money on media can. The millions upon milloins of people who are not online is where the media industrys bread and butter is at thus why discs and or single film devices will be very relevant to them in that time frame.

The industry dose not work on whats best it works on what they can sell to not only the consumer but to them selfs, BR/discs are here to stay for 10 years easily outside of 10 I can see did distro taking over 5-20% of the "dsic" market but what is most likely you will have "discs" for 20.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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1337.1.2008 14:40

You think poor people in third world countries with dial up are currently in the market for and hdtv and a high def player???

1347.1.2008 14:48

Originally posted by lordesq:
You think poor people in third world countries with dial up are currently in the market for and hdtv and a high def player???
Are they buying DVD? yes why because tis the mainstream format backed by the media industry of the world...you are getting Hdef and current standards crossed, Hdef is a niche market and will be until it can saturate the market's and that wont be till it comes within range of DVDs prices.

Even 2nd world nations don't have good net infrastructure on top of that the US is still only 50-70% covered in reliable fast cheap internet... you are fooling yourself if you think that digital downloads are viable for the media industry's as the main channel to distribute film, that simply wont come to pass for 10-20 years.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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1357.1.2008 14:51

I'm not foolish. I'm not attacking you. Don't attack me. I just think technology is advancing far faster than you give it credit. Think 20yrs back. We're talking 1988! What internet were you surfing in 1988?

1367.1.2008 15:11

Originally posted by lordesq:
I'm not foolish. I'm not attacking you. Don't attack me. I just think technology is advancing far faster than you give it credit. Think 20yrs back. We're talking 1988! What internet were you surfing in 1988?

20 years might be to long, but 10-15 is more than likely, unless the media industry has learned from MS and will make a short trem standards that only lasts 3-4 years(...think of ME..and vista :P)

I understand that growth of tech is fast but also there is the growth of the industry and its financial needs to take into consideration when you are talking abotu changing how media is solely or mainly disturbed on a world wide scale.

Discs will be the main distribution point for media for 5-10 years easily beyond that the industry could head a 2 front effort to ween the world of discs and head a replacement effort for discs. The main problem with replacing discs is that outside of 15 years bandwidth should have grown enough world wide for the media industries to halve or drop physical distribution.

PS:we all are fools in our own way, least me and the vocies think so ^_~

PSS:I also think its foolish to think the media conglomerates would drop physical distribution in less than 10 years,there just to much money to be had to not do both until one is unprofiable.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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1377.1.2008 15:21

No I don't think disc distribution is going to stop. Certainly I think the way we receive our media is going to change. We used to buy cds. I haven't bought a cd in years. That happened pretty fast too. Also we're talking about premium services. We're not talking about the masses yet. It will be a long time before HDTVs make it into the majority of households...and I don't mean digital set top boxes, I mean 42inch or greater 720p or higher tv sets. These are the people who bought playstations to play movies on and download content on their macs so they can watch movies on their phones. The target for HD for the next five years is not india, china, or Russia; its america, japan and europe. These are the consumers that will pay a premium for enhanced picture quality. Which is what we're talking about. Its not unreasonable to think that their methods of acquiring entertainment will change and change quickly.

1387.1.2008 15:40

Originally posted by lordesq:
No I don't think disc distribution is going to stop. Certainly I think the way we receive our media is going to change. We used to buy cds. I haven't bought a cd in years. That happened pretty fast too. Also we're talking about premium services. We're not talking about the masses yet. It will be a long time before HDTVs make it into the majority of households...and I don't mean digital set top boxes, I mean 42inch or greater 720p or higher tv sets. These are the people who bought playstations to play movies on and download content on their macs so they can watch movies on their phones. The target for HD for the next five years is not india, china, or Russia; its america, japan and europe. These are the consumers that will pay a premium for enhanced picture quality. Which is what we're talking about. Its not unreasonable to think that their methods of acquiring entertainment will change and change quickly.
well we are aguring over the same thing but diffrent ends, I was thinking you were talking abotu replacing the main distro of media with digi,

my bad...zomg zippy focus on one thing zippy mash LOL


but ya theres no doubt Hdef will grow and so will digi distro but it will be 10+ if not 15+ years before digi distro the becomes main focal point of the industry.

I think 5-10 to get Hdef to become fully mainstream and another 5-10 on top of it for digi distro to replace it at 50% or above.

But truthfully I think digi distro's main trouble is high speed broadband proliferation and land lines I really think in the next 50 years when satilite tech really breaks to replace land line and we have high speed (5Mbits/700KBPS+) thats when digi distro will be everything, but even without it in 15-20 eyars there should be enough of the world to support media services that can offer "everything" online.

Gee..kinda like what we have now with torrents and such but costing like cable/TV a small monthly fee under 50$ to have access to large media libraries and the media conglomerates would just get a cut or deals to advertise on thos services, of coarse this service would be agreed upon by all media industries in a move to maintain profit having a simplified agreement of profit sharing between the services and the CP/IP "owners"....but that might be wishful thinking LOL.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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