AfterDawn: Tech news

The future of Blu-ray and HD DVD still not decided

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 05 Jan 2008 15:53 User comments (57)

The future of Blu-ray and HD DVD still not decided With the increase in available Blu-ray and HD DVD titles both formats are seeing increased visibility in stores. Blu-ray with more releases and higher Title sales than HD DVD, is also gaining more shelf space, but both have seen significant increases over the last year.
“It’s really a function of more titles being available,” said Best Buy spokesman Brian Lucas. “We are still supporting both equally and haven’t staked a position on [the format war]. We are definitely giving more space and presence to next-generation titles. Part of that is once you start selling the hardware, you have a responsibility to help people get the most out of it.”

It's also worth mentioning that as DVD sales have declined over the same period, industry analysts have said they expect shelf space for them to drop as well. With the increasing emphasis, both among studios and retailers, on replacing DVDs with so called "next-gen" formats this seems to be an accurate prediction.

A bigger question right now, which the studios and consumer electronics manufacturers don't appear willing to tackle head on, is whether any format can have the success enjoyed for many years by DVD. An anonymous source from one studio told Video Business “At the beginning of the year we started at less than 1%, and now that has gone closer to 5%. Unit sales have increased more than six and a half times between December 2006 and December 2007.”

But in a way this highlights the problem right now. A 650% increase in DVD sales would be massive, but the same percentage increase in the new formats doesn't really amount to that many sales, and certainly not enough to make either format profitable, either for studios or player manufacturers.

Clearly the best sign for the future of both formats is the steady adoption of HDTVs by the public, but unlike HD DVD and Blu-ray players, they're still not available for the kind of bargain basement prices necessary to sell them to many people who haven't made the switch yet. Even a $50 player isn't useful to someone who can't afford a $500 HDTV.

In light of Warner Brothers' recent decision to drop HD DVD support and throw their weight behind Blu-ray, it appears that the "war" between the two formats may be over. Assuming that's the case, what have they really won?

So far they've apparently won less than a 10% share of the home video market, and there's no guarantee that anything resembling the success of DVD is even possible. The differences between DVD and Blu-ray (or HD DVD) are as striking as the similarities.

Source: Video Business

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57 user comments

15.1.2008 16:42
evz
Inactive

Two words...BS

25.1.2008 17:21

vurbal: The title of the article is IMO only half correct.

The future of BluRay is still uncertain. That much can be said. Can it replace SD DVD's in the long term? That's the big question that will take years to answer. Clearly the chances of success vs SD DVD increases with just one format in the picture.

However, the future of HD DVD was pretty much decided with the Warner announcement. When the biggest Hollywood studio in terms of home video sales tells you in no uncertain terms to please roll over and die, there's really no way you recover from that.

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/...1700383,00.html

Quote:
"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," said Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."
That's a very diplomatic way of saying: "You had your chance, now let the other side take over."

The title should read: Blu-ray vs SD DVD still not decided

...or something similar. It's over for HD DVD.

(For the record: I have both formats. I have A Toshiba HD-XA2 in my main setup and an A1 in my bedroom. I have 75 HD DVD titles - majority of which are Warner.)

35.1.2008 17:43
red2tango
Inactive

sell your hd-dvd players lmao

losers!

45.1.2008 17:47
vinny13
Inactive

Lol this reminds me of a Smack Down show I went to once. The Undertaker(Warner) gave an amazing Choke Slam to some guy's manager(HD-DVD). It was really sick. I have pictures :)

55.1.2008 17:54

Originally posted by red2tango:
sell your hd-dvd players lmao

losers!
Congratulations. You're the definition of a "gracious winner."

65.1.2008 18:01
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
Originally posted by red2tango:
sell your hd-dvd players lmao

losers!
Congratulations. You're the definition of a "gracious winner."
I know I am... That would just take away from my PS3's shine :)

75.1.2008 18:07

Quote:
vurbal: The title of the article is IMO only half correct.

The future of BluRay is still uncertain. That much can be said. Can it replace SD DVD's in the long term? That's the big question that will take years to answer. Clearly the chances of success vs SD DVD increases with just one format in the picture.

However, the future of HD DVD was pretty much decided with the Warner announcement. When the biggest Hollywood studio in terms of home video sales tells you in no uncertain terms to please roll over and die, there's really no way you recover from that.

http://www.timewarner.com/corp/newsroom/...1700383,00.html

Quote:
"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," said Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."
That's a very diplomatic way of saying: "You had your chance, now let the other side take over."

The title should read: Blu-ray vs SD DVD still not decided

...or something similar. It's over for HD DVD.

(For the record: I have both formats. I have A Toshiba HD-XA2 in my main setup and an A1 in my bedroom. I have 75 HD DVD titles - majority of which are Warner.)

While I tend to agree that Warner's decision was the final nail in HD DVD's coffin, I refuse to make any predictions at least until May. Ironically I think Blu-ray is probably better off with HD DVD around because any comparison to regular DVD makes pretty much all the companies involved look foolish for spending so much money for so little return. And they'll look even worse if it turns out they spent billions of dollars to own a market worth only a small fraction of that.

85.1.2008 18:50
hughjars
Inactive

Warner can request HD DVD roll over & die until they are Blu (lol) in the face (which I guess is what they are today, boom boom).

But the truth still remains, HD DVD has the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios behind it exclusively and a host of smaller studios.

For all the over-blown comment HD DVD is not dead.

Damaged yes but not dead nor out of this.

For as long as Hollywood is divided like this Blu-ray has not won anything and will not be sliding in to just take over from DVD.

.....and the bulk of the people will continue to ignore Blu-ray as over-priced and not worth it; not matter how many $1+ billion shady deals the studios and CE corps cook up between themselves.

95.1.2008 18:58

Originally posted by hughjars:
Warner can request HD DVD roll over & die until they are Blu (lol) in the face (which I guess is what they are today, boom boom).

But the truth still remains, HD DVD has the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios behind it exclusively and a host of smaller studios.

For all the over-blown comment HD DVD is not dead.

Damaged yes but not dead nor out of this.

For as long as Hollywood is divided like this Blu-ray has not won anything and will not be sliding in to just take over from DVD.

.....and the bulk of the people will continue to ignore Blu-ray as over-priced and not worth it; not matter how many $1+ billion shady deals the studios and CE corps cook up between themselves.

Honestly I don't know how much difference these factors will ultimately make, which is why I refuse to actually predict anything. However things turn out I expect to be sitting smugly on the sidelines with my HTPC so quite frankly I won't be upset if neither one is around 2 years from now.

I would, however, add to your comments by saying that just because an American studio is Blu-ray exclusive doesn't mean their movies aren't available on HD DVD. With no region codes to worry about there are an awful lot of "Blu-ray" exclusive movies that can be found on HD DVD due to distribution deals with foreign studios.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 19:06

105.1.2008 19:16
hughjars
Inactive

Well it didn't take long.

Welcome to the new Blu-ray future.

Sony just raised the price of it's BDP S300 from $299.99 to $399.99

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stor...ategoryId=27898

I see the latest Fox release is BD+, 25gb & MPEG2.

Don't complain, this is exactly what the PS3 gang wanted so badly.

115.1.2008 19:37

I personally will never buy either format, till the day comes when the hardware for backing up either a Bluray disc or HD-DVD is reasonably affordable. Till then, I'll stick to my upconverted DVD player.

125.1.2008 21:32

Hughjars how is the raise in a blu-ray player price what the PS3 gang wanted. Most of the people who own a PS3 probably wont buy another blu-ray player since the PS3 plays blu-ray. If your going to comment like that at least say blu-ray boys why does it always have to go back to the PS3 when this isnt about that system?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2008 @ 21:33

135.1.2008 21:43
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by spydah:
why does it always have to go back to the PS3 when this isnt about that system?
- Are you kidding?

The only reason many of the people here are 'supporting' Blu-ray is cos they have a PS3 and they see
Blu-ray = PS3 & Sony : HD DVD = XBox 360 (HD DVD add-on) & Microsoft.

For many if not most it's just that gormless infantile game console BS carried over, that's all.

145.1.2008 21:59

It seems everybody is sided with blu-ray, everytime I go into Best Buy I look at the bright blu-ray set up and then look at the dull hd-dvd setup. I can't help think to myself that Best Buy used the analog hook up for hd-dvd and the hdmi 1.3 for blu-ray.

Well...good thing I only paid $90 for my HD-A2 from Walmart. So now I have a high-tech upconverting dvd player. Nice.

155.1.2008 22:04

Ebay just went HD DVD exclusive. There is hope.

165.1.2008 22:13

I don't own a PS3 I own a Wii. Not everyone that likes blu-ray owns a PS3. I don't see the buggy play that Hughjars talks about on my S300. I myself would prefer a flash media player like buying a movie on a thumb drive and pluging it into your player. Can't scratch and no moving parts.

176.1.2008 0:40
red2tango
Inactive

LOL funny that hughjars can say that the 2 BIGGEST STUDIOS are behind Hd-dvd.nobody cares honestly,you know why?because blu-ray has outsold hd-dvd EVERY SINGLE F*CKIN WEEK! without Warner.and guess what?Warner is going Blu so you can take your 2 little studios and shove em where the sun dont shine cuz after the deal is done they're going blu-ray too :D

186.1.2008 1:19
26r0cK
Inactive

you kno hughjars you really asked for the beat-down here on afterdawn. article after article of anything positive or negative about blu-ray you always gotta bring it down even more. sure you brought up smart points with hd-dvd but it didnt justify anything cuz you still didnt want to believe the truth. let alone you still arent. so long to you, hughjars, the biggest hd-dvd fanboy. anything you say is nuthing more then just jibberish.

196.1.2008 1:27

Quote:
Originally posted by spydah:
why does it always have to go back to the PS3 when this isnt about that system?
- Are you kidding?

The only reason many of the people here are 'supporting' Blu-ray is cos they have a PS3 and they see
Blu-ray = PS3 & Sony : HD DVD = XBox 360 (HD DVD add-on) & Microsoft.

For many if not most it's just that gormless infantile game console BS carried over, that's all.


No thats where your wrong again. Because most people on here that make comments about these so called format wars dont own either. They usual post that in their comments. People pick sides based on many factors. Popularity, quality, price, and word of mouth. We can sit here and argue points all day because there are plenty to throw around. Also HD DVD dont equal no XBOX because they havent choose any side i dont know where you got that from and XBOX is Microsoft.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 1:28

206.1.2008 1:40

Originally posted by red2tango:
LOL funny that hughjars can say that the 2 BIGGEST STUDIOS are behind Hd-dvd.

Well apparently you care enough to take personal shots at him on a public forum so that can't be true. What is true is that you misstated what he said.
Originally posted by hughjars:
HD DVD has the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios behind it exclusively and a host of smaller studios.

Originally posted by red2tango:
nobody cares honestly,you know why?because blu-ray has outsold hd-dvd EVERY SINGLE F*CKIN WEEK! without Warner.and guess what?Warner is going Blu so you can take your 2 little studios and shove em where the sun dont shine cuz after the deal is done they're going blu-ray too :D

It never ceases to amaze me how much vitriol and bile can be generated over this issue. Like everyone here, hughjars has an opinion that he's entitled to express. Unlike some others, however, he manages to do so without coming off like a raving lunatic. If you have something of substance to add to the discussion, whether it's for, against, or not related to his opinion I encourage you to post it. However, if all you want to do is accuse others of being full of it because they don't agree with you, don't expect the mods to put up with it for long.

For some time I've noticed this issue devolving into the kind of free-for-all that more or less forced AVSForum to make certain related subjects off limits because of the fanboys. If you're not sure who those fanboys are you're probably one of them. I would hate to see Afterdawn make a similar move because a few people can't control their inner 3 year old.

From this point forward I will be doing everything I can to make it as easy as possible for the mods to stay on top of these discussions. If you'd like to stick around longer than a couple of posts I'd recommend turning the fuel down on these flamewars before the mods and admins are forced to put them out for good.

Rich Fiscus
@Vurbal on Twitter
AfterDawn Staff Writer

216.1.2008 1:55

Originally posted by vurbal:
Ironically I think Blu-ray is probably better off with HD DVD around because any comparison to regular DVD makes pretty much all the companies involved look foolish for spending so much money for so little return. And they'll look even worse if it turns out they spent billions of dollars to own a market worth only a small fraction of that.
I disagree.

You have to remember that regular DVD started the same way. It had to overcome laserdisc and later DIVX discs (not the codec - the disc format sold by Circuit City). After that they took on VHS. They also started with a very small portion of the market.

Two HD formats have no chance against SD DVD. For HD media to become mainstream and eventually replace SD DVD's there has to be only one standard bearer. I was expecting this to be HD DVD but the BDA pulled off a last minute miracle.

One HD format will give those standing on the sidelines confidence to buy into HDM. They won't be waiting for a winner anymore. They'll just start buying players and movies.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 1:58

226.1.2008 2:52

Anyone who says HDVD is dead is a fool, theres plenty of fight left in this format war.

236.1.2008 3:21

Quote:
I disagree.

You have to remember that regular DVD started the same way. It had to overcome laserdisc and later DIVX discs (not the codec - the disc format sold by Circuit City). After that they took on VHS. They also started with a very small portion of the market.

Apparently our memories are different because I didn't see DVD having any problems overcoming laserdisc. All the laserdisc owners I knew and knew of bought DVD players almost immediately. When it came to VHS the only real obstacle was price. As soon as player prices fell the general public jumped on board. However, there are two major differences here. First off there was an obvious difference in the quality of DVD vs. VHS. Even if you had to use a RF converter the quality was a huge improvement. Many people don't believe such a distinction exists between DVD and Blu-ray/HD DVD, or more importantly between HDTV broadcasts and those formats. Other people don't even have HDTVs to use them with. No matter how much emphasis is put on the price of players, you could give them away for free and they wouldn't do any good for a pretty sizable portion of the population.
Quote:
One HD format will give those standing on the sidelines confidence to buy into HDM. They won't be waiting for a winner anymore. They'll just start buying players and movies.

You're assuming that they only reason people aren't buying is the format war. This is off base in more than one way. As I already mentioned, some people simply can't take advantage of either formats' benefits. If I had a HDTV I'm sure I might have one or the other, but since I can't afford to go drop hundreds or thousands of dollars on a TV in the forseeable future there's no reason to even worry about a HD player. In addition, many people who haven't bought one or the other simply don't see what the big deal is. Either they're happy with the picture they get from the DVDs they've already paid for or they consider broadcast HDTV to be as good as they need. Neither group will care one way or the other how many formats there are that they don't want.

No doubt there will be increased sales if one format or the other disappears, but I can't imagine any format will ever see the kind of success DVD had. DVD wasn't a fluke, but its success was fueled by unique circumstances that aren't likely to be repeated again, and certainly aren't in place now.

246.1.2008 3:40

Vurbal

People tend to pick sides and make favorites they tend to forget the sausage making that format wars are, first you have to create and sustain your niche market, then you move to lower priced products for the masses.

Either HDVD/BR winning\losing is irrelevant without low to consumer prices nothing will happen without that BR could easily fall into the trap LD did if they do not push hard for lower prices, but frankly 2-4 years out the prices will halve by default even if the blu diode is still the same price so in time it could set itself up to replace DVD but in 4 years time another format could emerge that in 8ish years from now replace it.

256.1.2008 3:41

Here's my 2 cents and I have nothing more to say about the bullshit format wars. Blu Ray nor HD DVD will ever compare to the sales of the original DVD sales. Even though movies are being created in the new formats they are still being created and sold on regular DVD at a cheaper price as well. Yet no one seems to be throwing up numbers to those sales. All of the combined studios using the new formats are still producing movies on the original DVD. This would go to show you that in my opinion a lot of people arguing about this so called war are idiots. The reason I have stated this is because no matter what...it is the same damn movie on a smaller storage disc. In my opinion neither of the newer formats look better than the other. Its probably better if both formats stick around and a dual formatted player be created. All 3 formats are indeed profitable. If I were a blind man sitting in front of an HDTV listening to an HD DVD or Blu Ray porno that I cant watch then wtf should I do. So to conclude this statement which format would you choose if all of you were blind? But...thats my 2 cents!

266.1.2008 3:50

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Here's my 2 cents and I have nothing more to say about the bullshit format wars. Blu Ray nor HD DVD will ever compare to the sales of the original DVD sales. Even though movies are being created in the new formats they are still being created and sold on regular DVD at a cheaper price as well. Yet no one seems to be throwing up numbers to those sales. All of the combined studios using the new formats are still producing movies on the original DVD. This would go to show you that in my opinion a lot of people arguing about this so called war are idiots. The reason I have stated this is because no matter what...it is the same damn movie on a smaller storage disc. In my opinion neither of the newer formats look better than the other. Its probably better if both formats stick around and a dual formatted player be created. All 3 formats are indeed profitable. If I were a blind man sitting in front of an HDTV listening to an HD DVD or Blu Ray porno that I cant watch then wtf should I do. So to conclude this statement which format would you choose if all of you were blind? But...thats my 2 cents!
*sigh*
you seem to fail to udnerstand how DVD was born it was a long slow process to replace VHS and it did so after 10ish years, all 1 format has to do is to remain in the game and lower its prices its that simple.

HDVD/BR are only viable as long as they are seen profitable by the media industry thus meaning one will rise one will fall as the mainstream format, until then they will fight tooth and nail to gain and keep as much ground as they can meaning the format war will take awhile.

276.1.2008 4:18

I realize it the whole ordeal. With so many other formats coming forward its like trying to be the popular guy or girl in high school. Eventually when you get older you really don't care anymore. When radio broadcast were around there was no television. When television came into play and finally affordable it did not mean it was the end for radio. Eventually they began to work together for the same cause...media and entertainment. Its not I who doesn't get the point...its all of you fan boys out here band wagoning bullshit. Regardless of the new format the outcome will still be the same. You are still watching a movie. The same thing you go to theaters for or anything else etc. If I wanted to have it where I wanted to charge a service to view movies that are in theaters...online and they are quality. When all the fan boys jump aboard does that mean that I will start the trend for theaters to lose business. I would hope not. Id rather have somewhere to go on a date instead of watching the shit at home all the time. The birth of DVD had its reasons. Mainly for issues involving a disc vs. a bulky assed vhs tape. But everyone arguing back and for like they live and die for this shit... well get a life. If somebody wins then more power to them. If they both stick around then great.

286.1.2008 4:27

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
I realize it the whole ordeal. With so many other formats coming forward its like trying to be the popular guy or girl in high school. Eventually when you get older you really don't care anymore. When radio broadcast were around there was no television. When television came into play and finally affordable it did not mean it was the end for radio. Eventually they began to work together for the same cause...media and entertainment. Its not I who doesn't get the point...its all of you fan boys out here band wagoning bullshit. Regardless of the new format the outcome will still be the same. You are still watching a movie. The same thing you go to theaters for or anything else etc. If I wanted to have it where I wanted to charge a service to view movies that are in theaters...online and they are quality. When all the fan boys jump aboard does that mean that I will start the trend for theaters to lose business. I would hope not. Id rather have somewhere to go on a date instead of watching the shit at home all the time. The birth of DVD had its reasons. Mainly for issues involving a disc vs. a bulky assed vhs tape. But everyone arguing back and for like they live and die for this shit... well get a life. If somebody wins then more power to them. If they both stick around then great.
So you are saying they should not bother with making new formats because its not form over function?.......
I mean why bother posting because you could care less right?

I mean really...you are bitching about people making comments in a comment/opinion FORUM.....

And while you are at it define "fanboy" if you mean by crazy tech nerds then yes we are :P
If you mean by format zombies...not so much..... sure theres a few of them but I tend to ignore their vitriol and go with the general truth of things.

I also like flexing my mental musecls(as weak as they are) on figuring out how the format war will move and end, its a interesting process.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 4:29

296.1.2008 4:49

Actually I'm not bitching at all. More so else is bitching and I'm saying let it ride out but I know thats not gonna happen. Second it is a forum of commenting opinions. In which I am doing just as everyone else is in here as well as including my 2 cents. Third the term fanboy has nothing to do with your phrase "crazy tech nerds" because I along with others have been just that since grade school. Fanboys obsess about things they favor regardless of fact. I don't need to obsess about anything. If anything I'm with vurbal on this one. And as soon as someone comes in here supporting their camp we all have a big free for all taking shots at each other which is ridiculous at best. You're right I don't care..so why post. Well I post based on what I view as simple facts...the key word being "simple"! I'm sure that a couple years later we will have this pointless argument again over the next format but in the end who cares. All of our same hard earned money will be wasted away for things dealing within the realm of entertainment anyways.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 4:52

306.1.2008 4:54

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Actually I'm not bitching at all. It more so I'm everyone else is bitching and I'm saying let it ride out. Second it is a forum of commenting opinions. In which I am doing just as everyone else is as well as including my 2 cents. Third the term fanboy has nothing to do with your phrase "crazy tech nerds" because I along with others have been just that since grade school. Fanboys obsess about things they favor regardless of fact. I don't need to obsess about anything. If anything I'm with vurbal on this one. And as soon as someone come in here supporting their camp we all have a big free for all taking shots at each other which is ridiculous at best. You're right I don't care..so why post. Well I post based on what I view as simple facts...the key word being "simple"! I'm sure that a couple years later we will have this pointless argument again over the next format but in the end who cares. All of our same hard earned money will be wasted away for things dealing within the realm of entertainment anyways.
Mmmm I thought fanboys whine about minuscule and non exsistant details while crazy tech nerds trash talk to each other about the ins and outs of tech :P

Oh well whatever wins win lets just hope its cheap in protection and price :P

316.1.2008 6:47

surely lg super blu players are gonna cancel out the need for either a blu ray player or hd dvd? regardless which format is best, customers will just buy the hd or blu ray dvds of the films they like as it is irrelevant which format they are in.

326.1.2008 7:21

Originally posted by vurbal:
No doubt there will be increased sales if one format or the other disappears, but I can't imagine any format will ever see the kind of success DVD had. DVD wasn't a fluke, but its success was fueled by unique circumstances that aren't likely to be repeated again, and certainly aren't in place now.
I agree with error5 on this. I tend to be more optimistic about the future of HD media. DVD has been an unqualified success but evolution is the natural order of things including technology. Apparently your webmaster dRD also shares our view:

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12335.cfm
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jan 2008 @ 7:23

336.1.2008 12:52

red2tango & 26r0cK just got temp bans. anybody else want 1 because if not then knock off the flames or i'll flame you off this site. your choice!!!

346.1.2008 13:48

Originally posted by ddp:
anybody else want 1
Er...huh?

356.1.2008 13:53

testing new sig


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

366.1.2008 13:54

temp ban.

376.1.2008 17:11

They are not what people like Warner said they were interested in.

Warner said they were interested in seeing how the numbers looked for Q4 of 2007.

It's HD DVD that has come out of Q4 of 2007 showing that it's attachment rates do matter and that despite Blu-ray's 10:1+ lead in players they cannot even hold their old 2:1 advantage in sales.

A 10:1+ advantage in player numbers holding a 1.56:1 lead is pathetic.

Blu-ray have simply bought every week with BOGOs (20 Blu-ray BOGOs to 2 HD DVD BOGOs this year) - adding even further significant costs to the already more expensive format.

Yes indeed, CES 2008 is going to be very illuminating
(and some people are in for a shock, count on it).

387.1.2008 5:07

this format war is not even close to being over. It's going to take awhile to replace dvd or it's not going to happened at all. You have realize vhs to dvd was Huge change, But it's not for a fact that DVD will be replaced by blu-ray or hd-dvd. It can be replaced by new thing suck as internet TV. I know for a fact that i'm not buying hd-dvd or blu-ray till it has more than half of dvd sales. right now torrents works fine by me

397.1.2008 10:09

FROM THIS POINT FORWARD ANY AND ALL NEGATIVE OR DISPARAGING REMARKS AIMED AT AN INDIVIDUAL OR INDIVIDUALS WILL RESULT IN A BAN.

I have no patience and less than zero tolerance for idiotic crap like that so make sure your post is squeaky clean before you click the post button!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Jan 2008 @ 1:13

407.1.2008 20:06

Rambling mans rampent post warning



WOW somebody woke up the beast. hey Nephilim its okay. some people are just two fry's short of a happymeal.

but yeah there have been flames after flames with the whole mentune of the new format wars. but thats sometimes to be expected

oh uh guys if you gonna flame do it in a more self mannered way directed flaming is the number one reason people pass by forum.

why would i sign up and post a comment to have some guy flame me.

when you think of it this way its no wonder moderaters despise such behavour.

so keep it clean and fun.

thanks

418.1.2008 15:25

I don't get the point of this discussion of "who will win the format war." I decided back when the PS3 came out to get that console and then the cheapest Toshiba 1080p player (the A20)so I'd have both bases covered - I figured both formats would be around for at least 3 years. If not my fallback plan is as follow:

If the HD-DVD standard dies, then I'll go buy all those obsolete HD-DVD titles for pennies on a dollar that being dumped. I'll continue to use the HD-DVD player as an excellent upconverter to 1080p for standard def discs.

If the Blu-ray standard dies, then I've still got a PS3 game console, even though I'm not a gamer. Better yet, the PS3 is one of those original ones with 4 USB ports, media card readers, and the Emotion Engine for backward game compatibility, which probably has a good resale value if I wanted to unload it. I'll probably just keep it as a game machine for when my grandson visits, load Linux as an alternate OS, continue to use it for for slideshows of all my pictures, etc. It's a multipurpose machine, not just a blu-ray player.

So I don't really care about the future of Blu-ray and HD-DVD...

428.1.2008 17:19

Eventually companies will have to make choices and go with a format. The way things are panning out i think that blu-ray may go ahead however i dont know if they are going to win because if HD DVD is microsoft backed then it may be very close call still.

438.1.2008 17:26

Originally posted by Grampaw:
I don't get the point of this discussion of "who will win the format war." I decided back when the PS3 came out to get that console and then the cheapest Toshiba 1080p player (the A20)so I'd have both bases covered - I figured both formats would be around for at least 3 years. If not my fallback plan is as follow:

If the HD-DVD standard dies, then I'll go buy all those obsolete HD-DVD titles for pennies on a dollar that being dumped. I'll continue to use the HD-DVD player as an excellent upconverter to 1080p for standard def discs.

If the Blu-ray standard dies, then I've still got a PS3 game console, even though I'm not a gamer. Better yet, the PS3 is one of those original ones with 4 USB ports, media card readers, and the Emotion Engine for backward game compatibility, which probably has a good resale value if I wanted to unload it. I'll probably just keep it as a game machine for when my grandson visits, load Linux as an alternate OS, continue to use it for for slideshows of all my pictures, etc. It's a multipurpose machine, not just a blu-ray player.

So I don't really care about the future of Blu-ray and HD-DVD...
think of it as kids thinking they know better about a subject and battle it out with childish immaturely...altho in geekdom its more "I can speculate better than you" or "Zomg I fanboy smash"...I gues its still childish hot hotheadedness, I do like guessing and sharing my opinions over it.

But I wont claim I am more...mature ^_~

In the end bitchign whining and speculating here keeps us younguns off drugs :P...well...in some fanboy cases...maybe not.... LOL

4412.1.2008 8:51
RNR1995
Inactive

The people should support HD DVD just for the fact that the Blu Ray specification REQUIRES DRM
If you like DRM go Blu Ray
Personally I do not like DRM, and I will not purchase anything that resricts where and when I can use it

4512.1.2008 9:52
vinny13
Inactive

I'd rather have DRM then no movies at all.

4612.1.2008 10:47
RNR1995
Inactive

Vinny don't you have cable??

4712.1.2008 11:01

Originally posted by vinny13:
I'd rather have DRM then no movies at all.
't my

Thats like saying "I'd rather be a slave then to be free".I cant support a company who had people unknowingly install their rootkits to computers as a measure of copyright protection, Gives the RIAA and MPAA fully backed support in what they are doing to people who legally purchase their products on the market with false accusations, Failed at MD format and UMD format and doesnt want you to have any chance at backing up your legally purchased products at all. This list can go on. Maybe I'm a supporter of freedom or a world that has some kind of freedom. I go to theaters and all but purchasing blu ray even if it were all in favor of blu ray isn't my type of thing. I don't spend much time watching TV and purchasing movies are in no way a necessity for me.

RNR1995....I do agree with you though. So I compared all of this nonsense to the 2008 presidential election. If the wrong format if any is chosen we're all going to suffer from the consequences.

4812.1.2008 11:29
vinny13
Inactive

Ya I got DN and BEV...

Is it really that big of a deal? This crap always gets cracked and then a couple years down the road it was like it was never there. And I'm pretty sure sooner or later they'll come out with a firmware that allows you to watch BD+R or whatever because that's just retarded lol

Or I bet when the PS3 finally gets hacked like the PSP they'll find a way, and then everyone will buy PS3s :P

BR writers are slow and overpriced so they're not worth getting at the moment, and the discs are like $12 a pop, so they aren't worth it either. So where does this DRM issue come in if nobody has this stuff to complain about?

I have a PS3, and I haven't boughten any movies for it becaus it's too expensive. I have 1, but I got it for Christmas... I don't go to the movies because it's like $10 a ticket and like $14 for popcorn so screw that. I'd rather own it for that price. I just rent a movie and copy it or find it on good ol' Bit Torrent and burn it on a DVD.

I couldn't care less really about the RIAA and MPAA because I'm Canadian, so I only have the little guys to worry about. They can't enforce their garbage over here :P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2008 @ 11:43

4912.1.2008 11:46
RNR1995
Inactive

It has already been cracked http://www.slysoft.com
That's not the point
Consumers have the power to choose
Which is why I will never buy, or support $ony products since the root kit fiasco,
and why I would not waste my money on DRM crap like iTunes and Vista
The way to change is through your wallet
If the consumer quits bending over and taking it, the corporations will have to stop trying to put it there......

5012.1.2008 11:51
vinny13
Inactive

Well the average consumer doesn't know what DRM is, and nobody is going to inform them about it because that only makes things worse for them. Most of them think Sony a good brand anyways with their LCDs and all(even though they're a little pricy). I've never had any problems with them, but everybody has their own opinions.

And what's this root kit stuff?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2008 @ 11:55

5112.1.2008 11:54
RNR1995
Inactive

Google Sony Root Kit
Google DRM too

5212.1.2008 11:59
vinny13
Inactive

Lol wow I can't even remember the last time I bought a CD.

5312.1.2008 12:22

vinny13 I'm not trying to be funny but you do understand what the term DRM means. And yes it does affect you regardless of whether you live in Canada or not. I assume you d/l just as much as all of us just by reading your comments so I'm not against you nor agreeing with you. Even though they claim DRM is dead which isn't possible to believe. I just want to know what after you have purchased something legally to be yours...what doe the term limited usage mean to you the consumer and this is just an example.

5412.1.2008 12:55
RNR1995
Inactive

I actually have not purchased a CD in a year or so
Not because of the format, but because I have not heard an album worth purchasing... most new music should go back to the garage it sounds like it came out of....

5512.1.2008 13:14
vinny13
Inactive

Ya basically DRM is a bunch of different "techniques" implemented in mainly movies and music and now video games that limit the usage of it eg. music cannot be shared or ripped onto computers or burned ect. or games will only work on your console after it's played, so you can't resell it(WarHawk is supposed to be like that, I think the PSN download anyways). Basically this impairs the things you buy with a whole bunch of restrictions meaning you can't do whatever you want with it as it may not work, even if it has nothing to do with piracy, like making back-ups incase you damage the disc in general. This was supposed to slow down piracy, which obviously it only ruined sales and gave people a bigger reason to become "pirates".

It's pretty much the Hitler of Copy Rights.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2008 @ 13:17

5612.1.2008 13:15
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by RNR1995:
I actually have not purchased a CD in a year or so
Not because of the format, but because I have not heard an album worth purchasing... most new music should go back to the garage it sounds like it came out of....
There's something we both can agree on :P

5712.1.2008 21:43

Who wrote this?

The better and winner format is bluray, but you all missing the point!:

It does not matter who wins! the money is going to Japan anyway!

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