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CES 2008: LionsGate exec agrees Blu-ray copy protections won't stop pirates

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 10 Jan 2008 21:48 User comments (30)

CES 2008: LionsGate exec agrees Blu-ray copy protections won't stop pirates In an interview from CES with Don Reisinger, the CEO of LionsGate said his company's decision to back Blu-ray over HD DVD was a simple matter of its improved anti-piracy measures. But when pressed later he admitted that the best anti-piracy measure is selling a product people want to buy.
While it's refreshing to see a studio head owning up to the importance of Blu-ray's additional copy protection in their selection, Steve Beeks comments highlight the contradictions inherent in replacing good business decisions with technology. DRM might give warm, fuzzy feelings to studio heads, but spending all their time worrying about it hasn't won them any new customers.

And that's what's really missing from the whole Blu-ray / HD DVD Battle - some customers to fight over. With all the news from both camps over the last year you would think there are huge sales at stake, but so far both together have managed to Capture less than 4% of the total home video market. So far they're biggest accomplishment was finally overtaking VHS sales last year.

The good news for them is that they appear to have hit on a anti-piracy measure far more effective than ACSS, BD+, or anything else industry developers could ever come up with. Continue to avoid selling anything to most consumers and it's a sure thing they won't copy it to give to their friends who also aren't interested in your product.

Source: CNet News

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30 user comments

110.1.2008 22:24

And the truth comes out. . .but lets say we made out decision because this is what the customer wants.

210.1.2008 22:34

truthfully, DRM isnt even an issue at this point because it would actually cost more to burn a pirated bluray and than to buy the original. I suspect that by the time DRM is no longer an issue on bluray it would still be more cost efficient to buy. So if I were a studio exec I would just support both because eventually when prices people drop low enough DRM will be long goneon bluray and people will ultimately be right back to pirating. Might as well soak up as much profit as you can while its in your favor. The people that actually buy these high def players are most likely the people that will be the first to know how to pirate anyways. Lets be honest here.

310.1.2008 23:05

Which movie studio will be forever known as "The Last to Go Blu"?

Will Universal go Blu Before Paramount or Vise-versa?

Which ever studio is left holding the smelly bag of crap known as HD-DVD, will be the laughing stock of the electronics industry FOREVER! A permanent, bad reputation that they will never be able to shake. Wikipedia, Ask.com and every other web site in the Universe will display either Paramount or Universal as the very last to switch. Who will the lucky winner of the "enormous Bad Press prize" be? Who will forever be known as a "LOSER!"? :eek:

Think about it... let's say Paramount went blu today. From that moment on, all we would be hearing about is the lack of vision Universal Studios has. As the days pass, it would only get worse for the last HD-DVD supporter. I can't wait to see who the Unlucky one will be.

Please Vote:

Which studio will forever be known as "The Last To Switch"?

(a) Paramount/Dreamworks

or

(b) Universal Studios


(Post your Vote on this Thread)

410.1.2008 23:11

Originally posted by gleone:
Please Vote:

Which studio will forever be known as "The Last To Switch"?

(a) Paramount/Dreamworks

or

(b) Universal Studios


(Post your Vote on this Thread)
I vote that you're a tool and that you're post isn't anywhere NEAR on topic. Par for a BR fanboy.

510.1.2008 23:15

Quote:
Originally posted by elfman12:
I vote that you're a tool and that you're post isn't anywhere NEAR on topic. Par for a BR fanboy.
Sounds like you are the HD-DVD fanboy butt buddy. I just asked a simple question. No need to get your cheapo feathers all ruffled up over it.

How is this question:

did you eBay your HD-DVD stuff yet?

That should be a little easier for your little pea-brain to process.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 0:30

611.1.2008 0:24

gleone please stop flodding the forums, youre posting the same idiotic "poll" in several article, if you cant think of anything for any particular news dont post at all.

back on the piracy topic, as i've said before i think taht this is the oportunity to hd-dvd to take advantage, if they release pc burners and media, they will become mainstream on computers wich would mean that you could very well rip a blu-ray and burn it on a hd-dvd, also for big file backup, i know its not their primary mission to dominate the pirate business but it wouldn't be the first time to make a move with a hidden agenda. This would be specially effective since blu-ray would off course try to keep media and burners off the regular end user as much as they can.

711.1.2008 0:29

Originally posted by Gradical:
gleone please stop flodding the forums, youre posting the same idiotic "poll" in several article, if you cant think of anything for any particular news dont post at all.
What are you a Blog cop?

It's a legitimate question. Just answer it!

811.1.2008 0:30

Irregardless of what format you back neither is going to win this "war" imho. I think another type of distribution will take care of both formats and these arguments will have only served one purpose...

time wasted posting flame messages at one another for being fanboys!

@grkblood I think iwould have to agree with your statement about who would eb pirating first!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 0:32

911.1.2008 0:33

Originally posted by Blackjax:
Irregardless of what format you back neither is going to win this "war" imho.
What does "Irregardless" mean?

and

What does "imho" mean?

I'm not privy to this tech lingo. Please explain. Thanks

1011.1.2008 1:09

Quote:
Originally posted by Blackjax:
Irregardless of what format you back neither is going to win this "war" imho.
What does "Irregardless" mean?

and

What does "imho" mean?

I'm not privy to this tech lingo. Please explain. Thanks

Its not tech lingo, its common sence mixed with a simple understanding of english.

Irregardless: an erroneous redundancy for regardless.

imho: in my humble opinion

In other news pirates agree Blu-ray copy protections won't stop pirates.

1111.1.2008 2:05

I don't really care which wins or loses, since both formats play great from my hard drive with powerdvd and other programs. I do know however that Spielberg has stated that he prefers Blu-Ray. And since he is the one that will green light Indy, J.Park and Jaws, I'd say he will cast the final ballot.

1211.1.2008 3:27
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by stumpied:
And the truth comes out. . .but lets say we made out decision because this is what the customer wants.
DRM is not about stopping pirates its about selling licences and global price fixing with region coding by the MPAA, and other **AA, ect globalist media companies using American laws and the WTO to force every nation to agree to their laws!

Since when did we give them the right to control our culture and information, music is dying because of these companies that are just out to make a profit and care little for the quality or depth, only sales

this is what they want:

Sony recently released Warhawk game via PSN. if you purchase it you purchase a NONE transferable licence to play it, you cannot resell it, Lend it or even give it away it is locked to 1 account forever, you cannot even give it away with your ps3 as it is a violation to let anyone use your psn account and can have the account banned for life for this, it's kinda of like purchasing an empty bag, not even other family members can use it on their accounts because of the DRM if you family members want to play warhawk on their accounts they all have to purchase their own copy.

They want all media locked to 1 piece of hardware with 1 licence per user, this is their goal and piracy, is a great excuse to take away the freedoms we have enjoyed with media we own but soon you will only purchase a licence of use!

This is the reason the MPAA want Drm-Ray to succeed because as a final countermeasure against piracy with DRM-Rays BD+ DRM, studios can run ANY code they wish, including phone home authorisation and the ability to disable your hardware if you are running any hacks including a region code hack so you can watch films in your language where ever you live in the world.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 5:45

1311.1.2008 4:01

elfman12 & gleone,

enjoy a weeks vacation on me...my treat. When and if you decide to return keep in mind that flaming and fanboy talk won't be tolerated at afterdawn.



1411.1.2008 7:29

Originally posted by Blackjax:
Irregardless of what format you back neither is going to win this "war" imho. I think another type of distribution will take care of both formats and these arguments will have only served one purpose...

time wasted posting flame messages at one another for being fanboys!

@grkblood I think iwould have to agree with your statement about who would eb pirating first!
I would think one would win the Hdef market, most if not all moives will be made for one format while the other gets some stuff but mostly thrives in the 2ndry markets, HDVD would be perfect for cams mini dsics and whatnot because of tis price.

Nobrainer
Not to rain on your parade with facts but...the PSN version is locked to a limited about of accounts...maybe because its a MMO style game after all...... the retial version is not limtied.

Its like Guild wars where the serial is limited to one account, Live also has games that are locked to accounts the DRM is quite frustrating once it gets fouled up but normally its a non issue.


From what I know of the WII has fully non drm games on the VNC.

1511.1.2008 9:09
nobrainer
Inactive

@ ZippyDSM

its locked to 1 account but you can move it to 5.... here you go:

http://threespeech.com/blog/?p=575

Originally posted by above link:
In order to protect our investment in this ground-breaking game and maintain our ability to offer a 24-hour free online gameplay experience, SCE will be utilizing an alternative Digital Rights Management (DRM) policy for the downloadable version of Warhawk. The downloadable version of Warhawk, which will be available from the PLAYSTATION Store on Thursday 30th August, will be directly tied to the registered PLAYSTATION Network (PSN) account that purchased the game. Only that registered PSN account will be authenticated for gameplay. You will still be able to download the game to up to five PS3 systems. However, if a user downloads Warhawk onto a different machine, he / she will only be able to play via the original PSN user account on that machine and could not play on a different machine for 24 hours.

it is locked to 1 account and you cannot sell it on transfer, give away ect, ect ect. you will never get a return from your outlay on a game console, game, does this just sound like what the future holds, 1 licence per person that you cannot sell on?

is this what BD+ is going to be used for in the future, locking media to 1 ip address or 1 account so the second hand market becomes none existent!

no DRM will ever work because every piece of code is able to be reverse engineered or bypassed, even HDCP has been broken as you can get a card for your pc that does this, so the industry's war on targeting professional criminals with DRM is a huge lie as its the normal consumer that loses out from locked up content that you cannot time shift and you are forced yet again to purchase the same media you own in another format because they keep changing the hardware and making content incompatible!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 9:11

1611.1.2008 9:44

Copy Protection is important.
Imagine you're trying to break into the movie industry.
You make your film,release it on HD-DVD,and before it gets released,it's cracked & leaked onto a Torrent site.Everyone downloads it,you don't make enough money to recoup your costs and you get demoted to toilet scrubber.
No-one wants to lose money.
Also,Toshiba wouldn't aid pirates by releasing cheapo HD-DVD burners just to get back at Blu-Ray,that's idiotic.
A back-up feature is needed though.Consumers should still be able to protect their investments even if it is restricted by DRM.

1711.1.2008 10:15

One thing everyone should know is that there is a way around everything. Copy protection can only last for so long before it is broken. I think this article hit the nail on the head, though, when it said: "that the best anti-piracy measure is selling a product people want to buy". Which is sort of like something I said a while ago. There is no real reason to upgrade your DVD collection for either of the two new formats. They haven't made any amazing breakthough, like there was from VHS to DVD, to make joe everyman want to switch. There is some progress though with Sony putting a PSP version of the movie you buy on Blu-Ray; however, this requires you to have a PSP which not everyone has or wants to have. Still, atleast they are thinking bigger than just movies and deleted scenes.

1811.1.2008 11:42

ant-DRM is not pro-piracy, itīs pro-consumer, pro-freedom...

I wonīt buy a $50 movie to find out I canīt play it on my player because the player maker got its HDCP keys revoked for some unspecified reason or that it will be played in lo-res because itīs a different brand...

1911.1.2008 12:20

Originally posted by tefarko:
ant-DRM is not pro-piracy, itīs pro-consumer, pro-freedom...

I wonīt buy a $50 movie to find out I canīt play it on my player because the player maker got its HDCP keys revoked for some unspecified reason or that it will be played in lo-res because itīs a different brand...
Consumers have rights.Companies wouldn't profit from making their products redundant without good reason.
A film being played in low-res because it's a different brand!
Next you'll be saying Father Christmas won't be delivering presents next year because his Blu-Ray player revoked his sleigh mid-flight then crashing into Toshiba's HD-DVD production facility which caused a fusion reaction and ending the world as we know it.

2011.1.2008 12:28
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by tefarko:
ant-DRM is not pro-piracy, itīs pro-consumer, pro-freedom...

I wonīt buy a $50 movie to find out I canīt play it on my player because the player maker got its HDCP keys revoked for some unspecified reason or that it will be played in lo-res because itīs a different brand...
to follow on; To time shift so your investment to protect it, which is illegal because of DRM so you end up having to purchase all new media for the new equipment!

@ sciascia

you could move any media to any of your portable devices but this leads back to the media companies wanting to sell 1 licence per device per user which is what the studios use DRM for, price fixing. If Drm-Ray didn't have region locks on you could purchase films from the USA long before they are released in the UK and half price even after shipping costs but BD+ on DRM(Blu)-Ray stops you from using imported films by shutting down the player.

DRM = Global Price Fixing & propertarian lock in's, this is seen in Sony's products through out the range like PsP UMD media, memory card duo & the bravia's "Theatre Sync" which is restricted by sony to only control other sony products!

then you see another form of lockins in action with sony's deal with amazon that will see europe and especially the UK pay much higher prices for digital mp3's

Apple to cut UK download prices

this is because of the studios price fixing in europe which is against the law!

Originally posted by FTA above hyperlink:
Apple is now taking action against record labels that charge more to distribute music in the UK than in the rest of Europe.
The EU was investigating whether the iTunes store violated its competition rules because each country had its own store and consumers were only allowed to download music if they have a credit card from a bank registered in that country.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and now sony's new drm free amazon store, still global price fixing for digitally distributed media!

Quote:
And here goes good old Sony with their global price fixing!

http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/n...t-sony-drm-free

Originally posted by link:
AS PREVIOUSLY predicted by the INQ, Sony BMG has decided to abandon DRM on MP3 tracks it is currently selling via the Amazon MP3 beta site. The bad news is that the service is presently restricted to US customers only.

Efforts to defeat the system and try to purchase items from outside the USA – even if you use a false address and telephone number – will fail since the service checks against your credit card number for your origin.
DRM by the back door, credit card checks because DRM in media is so unpopular and finally ppl realise its about restricting sales to regions and fixing prices!


@ ChromeMud

The movie studios are closing the analouge hole and forcing us all to purchase new equipment because of HDCP (HDMI DRM) old equipment even some new lcd/plasma screens do not conform to the latest DRM and have all HD signals blocked, this is not a joke its reality and happening now, and the ICT is what will be switched on around 2010 to down res any equipment that is not hobbled enough because of the MPAA. this has been common knowlege for a long time but kept from main stream media as they have a lot of old stock to sell before they flick the switch!

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/05/23/hdmi-the-manchurian-.html

Originally posted by link:
Hollywood studios and some CE manufacturers have reportedly entered into an informal agreement to hold off on using the "image constraint token" in HDMI DRM until 2010 or 2012. The image constraint token is a flag in a video signal that instructs receivers, DVD players and other high-definition sources to "down-rez" their output to a low-definition signal when connecting to an "untrusted" screen or other sink.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 12:54

2111.1.2008 13:33

Originally posted by ChromeMud:
A film being played in low-res because it's a different brand!
http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/hdcp.cfm

Originally posted by AfterDawn:
So if a display device has been compromised, a source HD DVD player may find when KSVs are exchanged that it is part of the revocation list and will not send HD data to it; instead either transmitting standard definition video or no video at all.

2211.1.2008 13:34

Quote:

@ sciascia

you could move any media to any of your portable devices
Yes but now they have removed the process of you ripping a movie onto your PC then shrinking the file size and all that good stuff. I'm not saying there are doing anything revolutionary, but this is a step in the right direction in terms of enticements to make joe everyman want to buy into the new format. Still though, more is needed.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 13:35

2311.1.2008 14:41
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by sciascia :
Originally posted by nobrainer:

@ sciascia

you could move any media to any of your portable devices
Yes but now they have removed the process of you ripping a movie onto your PC then shrinking the file size and all that good stuff. I'm not saying there are doing anything revolutionary, but this is a step in the right direction in terms of enticements to make joe everyman want to buy into the new format. Still though, more is needed.
NO you are wrong they are giving you more propertarian media that is only compatible with the psp ffs, name me one other device that uses psp UMD, where is the mp4 file for ppl's smart phones and iPods, it doesn't exist as sony want to lock all content to their hardware.

DRM is about selling multiple licences, global price fixing and monopolising nothing more and the scare factor they use to take away your rights is piracy!

Please try to read all my above post! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/612947#3703213


2411.1.2008 15:07

In general though, it is a step in the right direction. I mean it IS ridiculous that you cannot use it on other platforms besides the PSP, I agree with that and that is not what I meant at all.

The point was that they are experimenting with adding content other than just some deleted scenes and commentary tracks, and that is a good thing, because right now, rebuying your DVD collection is pointless.

2511.1.2008 15:22
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by sciascia:
The point was that they are experimenting with adding content other than just some deleted scenes and commentary tracks, and that is a good thing, because right now, rebuying your DVD collection is pointless.
its completly pointlees moving away from DVD with upscaling dvd players on the market and with css (dvd drm) smashed beyond repair you can do anything you like with the content on them!

Downgrading to Drm-Ray or Hd-DvD is just losing the ability to do what you want with media you own!

2611.1.2008 17:27
vinny13
Inactive

OMG who cares about DRM! It always gets hacked and everyone is happy. Actually, it's already been hacked! So the players are still locked. Oh well. Wait. Do any of you people even have a BR burner?

Bunch'a pirates...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2008 @ 17:29

2711.1.2008 17:40

Originally posted by vinny13:
OMG who cares about DRM! It always gets hacked and everyone is happy. Actually, it's already been hacked! So the players are still locked. Oh well. Wait. Do any of you people even have a BR burner?

Bunch'a pirates...
We worry because we like our freedoms, because if the DRM industry gains more momentum i will be a crime to circumvent it becuse they bought some shiny new laws.....

as for BR writers...its simple :No because its to slow and to costly.

2811.1.2008 17:47
hughjars
Inactive

It's simply an ignorant lie to pretend that all DRM gets hacked in anything like a useful time-frame.

Go look at the UK's Sky satellite digital TV service encryption.

It's been working uncracked since 2001 and most think it will never be cracked (and given the millions of subscribers across Europe it's not as if there wouldn't be a huge demand for a cracked card - just like there was with the old analogue service which was successfully cracked).

With BD+ as it currently stands you cannot rip movies.
Even the HDMI capture method (which costs quality) is very simple to close off.

2911.1.2008 18:33
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by hughjars:
It's simply an ignorant lie to pretend that all DRM gets hacked in anything like a useful time-frame.

Go look at the UK's Sky satellite digital TV service encryption.

It's been working uncracked since 2001 and most think it will never be cracked (and given the millions of subscribers across Europe it's not as if there wouldn't be a huge demand for a cracked card - just like there was with the old analogue service which was successfully cracked).

With BD+ as it currently stands you cannot rip movies.
Even the HDMI capture method (which costs quality) is very simple to close off.
Well when Direct TV shut everybody down Dish Net and Bell got hacked in no time at all... Took like a couple months.

Once they finally shut us down again people will probably give another try for Direct TV and Star Choice. From what I've heard Star Choice is hacked but it's really really quiet... I can't find anything on it. My cousin was telling me that he had a friend that had a Star Choice receiver hacked so it could accept the signal. He said that you had to add something to the motherboard and you would have to change something every time it went down.

Things get hacked when they need to. Nobody is hacking DTV or anything because everybody is happy with DN, BEV and some european one. I think the same applies for Blu-Ray. It isn't that popular still so no one sees a major need for it to be messed around with at the moment.

3023.1.2008 16:33

Slysoft will break all protection in its way. It's as simple as that :)

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