AfterDawn: Tech news

Toshiba slashes HD DVD player prices

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 14 Jan 2008 16:12 User comments (57)

Toshiba slashes HD DVD player prices In response to several studios backing the Blu-ray format exclusively over the past couple of weeks, Toshiba Corp. has slashed the prices of its HD DVD player line-up by 40% - 50%, according to a Reuters report. The price cuts are in effect now, aimed at pushing HD DVD players into more consumer homes after Toshiba reported a successful fourth quarter.
Toshiba's HD DVD players now go for prices between $149 and $399 for a top-end player. "While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer," said Toshiba executive Yoshi Uchiyama in a statement. The company will also step up its marketing drive for the format including joint advertising campaigns with studios and extended pricing strategies.

Consumers who buy HD DVD players from Toshiba will continue to get five free HD DVD titles. In the past two weeks, the world's media has focused more on the format war after Warner Bros. decided to release in the Blu-ray format only, causing several studios to follow suit. Rumors that Paramount, DreamWorks and Universal were about to do the same circulated immediately, but have all been denied so far.

Link: http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12544.cfm

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57 user comments

114.1.2008 16:15
nobrainer
Inactive

No Matter what Hd-DvD do the MPAA DRM advocates (Sony, Disney & Fox) have already decided to only back Drm-Ray because of the extra layer of security and region coding which enables global price fixing.

Bad news for Hd-DVD as the consumers have not been allowed to choose what they want, it has been decided by the MPAA already, HD-DvD is by far the most consumer friendly option of the two formats. so i will stick with DVD for the foreseeable future & not have the worry of DRM and privacy issues of phone home Blu-Ray BD+ on upcoming profile 2.0+

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2008 @ 16:18

214.1.2008 16:29
banned2X
Inactive

I agree 'nobrainer'. It's really an F'en shame. Big business has made yet another decision for us. I hope that BD gets the sh*t hacked out of it sooner rather than later.

In my opinion, when BD and HD-DVD players are down to below 100.00 bucks then they'll be worth buying. Sorry folks but the raw materials needed to build those are similar to that of standard dvd...........which can be bought for 80 bucks.

314.1.2008 16:33
ljbanner
Inactive

i really do think that toshiba are doing the right thing and pushing the whole upscale thing to be honest if i popped in a standard disc into my hd player people would really not be able to tell that much difference!
even on standard 576 with no upscale my toshiba hd e1 wipes the floor with my sony dav that cost £299 and with the lower prices coming in for hd dvd its a bargain

414.1.2008 16:36
ljbanner
Inactive

lets rename it hd rocky dvd,
keep knocking it down and it still gets back up
your not so bad
your not so bad
your not so bad
sony threw a big ivan drago with the warner
but rock keeps fighting

514.1.2008 16:44
vinny13
Inactive

Well Rocky is getting old. He lost his last match in the last movie correct? :P

Anyways, a price slash? Gee, I wonder what this is about lol

614.1.2008 16:50
ljbanner
Inactive

you mean you actually watched the last one

714.1.2008 17:01

The most likely scenario according to avs insiders involved in the actual negotiations is this:

Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks are delaying any BluRay announcements until Toshiba has a chance to sell off their existing stock of HD DVD players. Once the stock is depleted to some extent then you will hear an announcement from these studios.

Not a bad exit strategy. This is also the likely reason why Universal has not announced any new HD DVD releases since CES 2K8.

These insiders have signed an NDA or non-disclosure agreement and have requested the avsforums mods to delete their posts regarding this scenario.

814.1.2008 17:33
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by ljbanner:
you mean you actually watched the last one
Yep... I think the last one was better :P

914.1.2008 18:59
hughjars
Inactive

It's not just Toshiba in this either.

Universal & Paramount are selling HD DVD movies at a lower cost too.

Despite the hype, this is far from over.

Warner don't actually do anything until the end of May and are not tied by contract to Blu-ray
(this has been done to protect Sony from US anti-trust actions as they have tried to buy the majority of the movie studios).

If Warner decide that Blu-ray sales are unimpressive at the end of the year they could easily go back to HD DVD
(and splash on an ad campaign funded by Sony's $500 mill).

With Blu-ray having nothing 'profile 2.0'
(and therefore nothing to full spec or guaranteed 100% safe with the final spec)
until God only knows when
(nevermind a decently spec'd range at sane prices)
Blu-ray really aren't going to be picking up much steam this year anyways.

The game console niche is where Blu-ray is stuck for a long time to come.

(with the added problem of 250,000+ very pi$$ed off 'profile 1.0' & 'profile 1.1' who find their kit won't work properly with 'profile 2.0' discs.....and who face the cavalier attitude of the BDA who have simply said tough luck boys, "you knew what you were getting into".

.....and to think they have the nerve to slam Microsoft as anti-consumer or to have whined about whether or not the relative handful of 1st gen Toshiba HD A1 owners might have had problems using the 3rd layer on the 51gb TL HD DVD discs.
Hypocritical fanboys, pure and simple)

1014.1.2008 18:59

Quote:
Originally posted by ljbanner:
you mean you actually watched the last one
Yep... I think the last one was better :P
The last one was on par with the first 3. I liked every Rocky, but the 4th and 5th were just too much, 6th is pretty good.

1114.1.2008 19:12
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by hughjars:
It's not just Toshiba in this either.

Universal & Paramount are selling HD DVD movies at a lower cost too.

Despite the hype, this is far from over.

Warner don't actually do anything until the end of May and are not tied by contract to Blu-ray
(this has been done to protect Sony from US anti-trust actions as they have tried to buy the majority of the movie studios).

If Warner decide that Blu-ray sales are unimpressive at the end of the year they could easily go back to HD DVD
(and splash on an ad campaign funded by Sony's $500 mill).

With Blu-ray having nothing 'profile 2.0'
(and therefore nothing to full spec or guaranteed 100% safe with the final spec)
until God only knows when
(nevermind a decently spec'd range at sane prices)
Blu-ray really aren't going to be picking up much steam this year anyways.

The game console niche is where Blu-ray is stuck for a long time to come.

(with the added problem of 250,000+ very pi$$ed off 'profile 1.0' & 'profile 1.1' who find their kit won't work properly with 'profile 2.0' discs.....and who face the cavalier attitude of the BDA who have simply said tough luck boys, "you knew what you were getting into".

.....and to think they have the nerve to slam Microsoft as anti-consumer or to have whined about whether or not the relative handful of 1st gen Toshiba HD A1 owners might have had problems using the 3rd layer on the 51gb TL HD DVD discs.
Hypocritical fanboys, pure and simple)
How do you know it was 500 million? I bet HD-DVD put in an offer too but they were just outbid. That's life. You learn to get used to it after buying and selling on ebay so much.

Blu-Ray is basically what more consumers have picked. It's not like it was forced on them. It's a choice that not everyone agrees with but oh well. That's what you get for buying into something so soon. It's just like the people who bought into Beta or whatever. If I didn't already have a player(my PS3) I would probably buy Bu-Ray as it has more support now and looks like a safer buy. I'm pretty sure right now that's what many new people who are getting into HD movie players are looking for, even though it just might cost a little more. That's all they need to know to be sold on it.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2008 @ 19:12

1214.1.2008 19:32

Originally posted by juankerr:
The most likely scenario according to avs insiders involved in the actual negotiations is this:

Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks are delaying any BluRay announcements until Toshiba has a chance to sell off their existing stock of HD DVD players. Once the stock is depleted to some extent then you will hear an announcement from these studios.

Not a bad exit strategy. This is also the likely reason why Universal has not announced any new HD DVD releases since CES 2K8.

These insiders have signed an NDA or non-disclosure agreement and have requested the avsforums mods to delete their posts regarding this scenario.
This scenario does make sense and also reinforces your idea that all unsold HD DVD players should have a disclaimer clearly explaining the current studio situation.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2008 @ 19:32

1314.1.2008 19:48
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by error5:
Originally posted by juankerr:
The most likely scenario according to avs insiders involved in the actual negotiations is this:

Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks are delaying any BluRay announcements until Toshiba has a chance to sell off their existing stock of HD DVD players. Once the stock is depleted to some extent then you will hear an announcement from these studios.

Not a bad exit strategy. This is also the likely reason why Universal has not announced any new HD DVD releases since CES 2K8.

These insiders have signed an NDA or non-disclosure agreement and have requested the avsforums mods to delete their posts regarding this scenario.
This scenario does make sense and also reinforces your idea that all unsold HD DVD players should have a disclaimer clearly explaining the current studio situation.
Why would they put that on their stand-alones and such? Then they wouldn't sell :P

1414.1.2008 20:27
camaro17
Inactive

wow man this is bleep pathetic, i cant beleive they are trying to drag people down with a soon to be dead format, people think oh sweet look at how cheap these hd-dvd formats are, its a fire sale people. a desperate attempt to raise there numbers for one more chance. whatever.

Peace

[two day ban. A Member should know better. - Neph]

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2008 @ 22:52

1514.1.2008 21:30

juankerr and camaro17 have said everything,i'll just add that you should expect same tactic from microsoft,sooner or later they'll have to drop the price at the 360's external HD-DVD drive.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2008 @ 21:30

1614.1.2008 21:52
hughjars
Inactive

Wow, way to discuss in a respectful manner camaro17; not.

It's always so amusing to see how much petty hatred & anger HD DVD simply being around gets the Blu-ray/PS3 fanclub.

Obviously their choice not to just roll over has upset some people.

Hard lines guys; they are still in this and Blu-ray has not forced them out despite umteen claims to have done so.

Hollywood remains divided with HD DVD still having exclusive support from the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios.

1714.1.2008 22:05
MrMexican
Inactive

hughjars

give it up, were are not trying to brag on how blue ray is winning or how we are laughing hard on your mistakes (hd dvd).

We are just trying to inform people that its a trap from a loosing format to gain one more chance for survival.

And people do we really want a format that just plays movies or a format that is used for more than just movies, more like games, cameras and whooping 25 to 50gb of data.


You should have choose to win , but you choose to loose , and now your asking y?

1814.1.2008 22:28

This is what it is. Toshiba has gotten ($$$) Universal and Paramont to not state their plans for HD for a few months. I wonder why they would do that? Toshiba has SLASHED their prices. I wonder whats going on?? They are just trying to give the coustomer a good deal rite??? I shur would not think that they were getting Uni and Para to hold up on their Blu anouncement untill they could sell off remaining supplies of players. I mean, Toshiba is so up standing.

1914.1.2008 22:57

MrMexican,

Knock off the comments towards hughjars.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

2015.1.2008 0:02

First where's the proof that Toshiba has given up and is just selling off old stock??

There are dual format players.

I think Blu_Ray should have a warning label on it's box warn people it's not user friendly.

And whats the point in these high definition players anyways if there will be Ultra High-definition coming out in less than 7 years. My up converting player does fine for now.

2115.1.2008 1:00

anyone reading on these forums would already know the situation and know what they're doing buying into HD DVD (and Blu-ray apparently)
but normal consumers will see these UPCONVERT players that play 'HD' DVD for prices very close to other DVD upconvert players, and if discs prices are slashed as well to DVD prices then there you go
theres still until the end of May before Warner stops putting out HD DVD, imo that's a very long time in the movie business
I already have HD DVD so I'm really hoping BD 2.0 players are released and drop in price faaaaaaast.

edit: spelling

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 1:01

2215.1.2008 2:08

Originally posted by Nephilim:
MrMexican,

Knock off the comments towards hughjars.
not trying to start things but if you are going to punish one you need to punish all! a few posts up Hughjars made comments towards Camaro17. he dishes it out just as much as the rest.

2315.1.2008 3:58

you guys realise that in every post that involveds the words blu ray or hd dvd and sony etc. you always say the very same things? have you guys run out of things to critize?? jesus christ!

give it a f'in rest already. drm this, evil sony that, the money the studio got payed, the consumer this, this that and the same... you might as well copy paste every comment from every other article and be done with it. lets keep an open mind here please!

2415.1.2008 5:28

Jeezzz.. are you people really that surprised by this decision?

Blu-Ray owning 70% of Home Video Market = Death for HDDVD
It's their last stand.

And why is everyone bashing Sony for DRM..? we all know that's going to fizzle out. Blu-Ray being the only viable next-gen optical format, DRM's heyday is over, trust me they talk tough but Sony is at the feet of consumers when it comes to their buying habits. If people don't adopt BD because of DRM, they'll change.

Look at SonyBMG, they gave up, people got pissed off, they found out about Rootkits, etc... they wanted their rights back. Sony knows when to back down.



2515.1.2008 6:27
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by Amir89:
Look at SonyBMG, they gave up, people got pissed off, they found out about Rootkits, etc... they wanted their rights back. Sony knows when to back down.
sony will never back down, the only reason they pulled xcp (rootkit) was because it was opening up ppl's pc's to attack and violating privicy with the report home facility built into it., and the legal onslaught because of this sony had no choice.

the MPAA lobby included a section into the SPY-ACT that makes rootkits legal fronted by sony so you think this isn't going to happen again?


http://weblog.infoworld.com/gripeline/ar...ct_only_pr.html

Quote:
April 24, 2007

Spy Act Only Protects Vendors and Their DRM

In other words, it's perfectly OK for basically any vendor you do business with, or maybe thinks you do business with them for that matter, to use any of the deceptive practices the bill prohibits to load spyware on your computer. The company doesn't have to give you notice and it can collect whatever information it thinks necessary to make sure there's no funny business going on. And by the way, another exception provision specifically protects computer manufacturers from any liability for spyware they load on your computer before they send it to you. Of course, the exception for software companies checking to make sure you're an authorized user is the strongest evidence of what this bill is all about. After all, in terms of function, there's not much difference between spyware and DRM. Too bad for Sony this bill wasn't already the law when its rootkit-infected CDs came to light.
there is an option instead of Drm-Ray its called DvD.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 6:32

2615.1.2008 8:48

Originally posted by chubbyInc:
I think Blu_Ray should have a warning label on it's box warn people it's not user friendly.
It's not much better with my XA2 HD DVD player. You need a pretty tech savvy person to set it up properly.

Fresh out of the box you need to update the firmware. You connect it to your router and you have to follow a very specific procedure or else you risk bricking the machine. You can also download the update but you have to know where to obtain this and burn it with the proper software. Again the update procedure is very specific or else you could end up with a non-working player.

If you're using HDMI then you have to deal with handshake issues depending on your setup.

For lossless audio you need to decide between decoding in the player or decoding in your receiver, if it has that capability. You need to know which setup choices you need for either one. Otherwise you also need to know how to use the 5.1 analogs if that's your only feasible alternative.

Finally, everyone knows about the playback issues with some combo discs.

Both technologies are relatively new and as such, "user-friendly" is not a word that you can use to describe either one of them.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 8:49

2715.1.2008 9:46
varnull
Inactive

Well first off. I'm drunk so neph has a good chance.. Stuff the yankee imperialist pigs.. I will continue to buy my R5 dvd's from wherever they come from. I'm not going HD.. probably along with the majority of the film buyers worldwide.. These HD formats can rot for all I care. Wait for the bollywood studios to decide what they are going to release on.. HD will be with us for a long time.. The format will probably replace dvd eventually for normal burning, because that sony crap is just too restricted.

I can hear you asking why somebody who doesn't own any hd kit should be interested in this so called "format war".. I can answer that dead easy.. I don't support region coding or drm in any shape or form./. It's a rip-off.. c'mon muppets.. go open source and give these bleep the finger.. It's less than they deserve..

OI.. yanks.. subserviant to the japanese eh?? what happened.. ( oh I forgot.. you are easily led sheeple. airport security, maccyD's and all.. what a bunch of ***kers ** sigh.. what a future..led by bleep who only want to fleece as much cash out of us as they can ** me isn't playing)

/me thinks them bombs were dropped on the wrong target.. hollywood would have been better......

flame war begins

edit::: because after 1/2 bottle of vodka things get complicated.. especially connections between fingers and brain

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 10:17

2815.1.2008 10:05

Quote:
not trying to start things but if you are going to punish one you need to punish all! a few posts up Hughjars made comments towards Camaro17. he dishes it out just as much as the rest.

That was not only off topic but also something that needs to be dealt with in a private message. If you have a problem with something I've done you need to deal directly with me. You have a week to think about whether you want to pull that crap again.

Quote:
you guys realise that in every post that involveds the words blu ray or hd dvd and sony etc. you always say the very same things? have you guys run out of things to critize?? jesus christ! give it a f'in rest already. drm this, evil sony that, the money the studio got payed, the consumer this, this that and the same... you might as well copy paste every comment from every other article and be done with it. lets keep an open mind here please!
I couldn't have said it better myself.


Ah, varnull. Still the same saucy lass I remember. We need to watch the language though darling ;)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 10:18

2915.1.2008 10:51

This sudden price drop could also have some consequences for retailers with regard to holiday purchases. I know Best Buy, Circuit City and Costco have extended holiday return or price matching. So if you show proof of a Toshiba player purchase from Nov 1st to Dec 24th I think you can get back the difference based on the current prices.

The other thing I'm wondering about is how Venturer must feel at this time. They were hoping to be the "budget" brand for the format. Now that Toshiba has undercut them price-wise, they must be very concerned. They're faced with the prospect of limited sales due to the better recognized Toshiba brand, or they can cut back prices and deal with lower profits. Either way it's a no-win situation for them.

3015.1.2008 11:46

Quote:
Quote:
not trying to start things but if you are going to punish one you need to punish all! a few posts up Hughjars made comments towards Camaro17. he dishes it out just as much as the rest.

That was not only off topic but also something that needs to be dealt with in a private message. If you have a problem with something I've done you need to deal directly with me. You have a week to think about whether you want to pull that crap again.

Quote:
you guys realise that in every post that involveds the words blu ray or hd dvd and sony etc. you always say the very same things? have you guys run out of things to critize?? jesus christ! give it a f'in rest already. drm this, evil sony that, the money the studio got payed, the consumer this, this that and the same... you might as well copy paste every comment from every other article and be done with it. lets keep an open mind here please!
I couldn't have said it better myself.


Ah, varnull. Still the same saucy lass I remember. We need to watch the language though darling ;)
You need to read your own forums a bit more Nephilim. Hughjars is the biggest troll on this site. Just wave a Blu-ray thread in front of his face and he's all over it like a rash. He has no sense of impartial opinion and is the worst sort rabid fanboy. Defending him when he gets a bit of stick is not the best idea, it just makes other less aggressive contributors simply walk away.

3115.1.2008 12:55

I think thats smart to get of rid of their HD inventory to get started on full support of Blue-Ray, its a rumor I heard?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 12:55

3215.1.2008 13:16

+1 on the Connolly Post.

Hug, when you say that this is far from over. Is that in House Fly years = 2 weeks or in Katoba Worm Years = 1 year. I guess 4-1/2 month would be a long time for a fly and a fair amount of time for the worm. I mean, you have always been correct. 51gig disk will play on all players, Disney is defecting, Fox is defecting, Warner is defecting, New Blu disk wont play on old players, CES anouncement, its not over. BTW, Amir got the boot, MS is no longer behind HD DVD.

3315.1.2008 13:48
Marklight
Inactive

Quote:
wow man this is bleep pathetic, i cant beleive they are trying to drag people down with a soon to be dead format, people think oh sweet look at how cheap these hd-dvd formats are, its a fire sale people. a desperate attempt to raise there numbers for one more chance. whatever.

Peace

[two day ban. A Member should know better. - Neph]

A little heavy on the Band button i see but some how you seem to miss this.




Quote:
Wow, way to discuss in a respectful manner camaro17; not

You gave Mr.Mexican a warning for making a comment towards another member but some how you didn't see Hughjars comment off topic also & toward a member also.

Quote:
MrMexican,

Knock off the comments towards hughjars
Why this don't suprise me when stuff like this pops up & have your name all over it.How bout you take a day off & rehash the rules before you try to band someone for Bullshit trying to protect a rabit fanboy who ripped members to no end on this forum for months.But you wasn't around for that right ?

3415.1.2008 14:19
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by glasd:
51gig disk will play on all players
- ....and your proof that they won't is.....?

That's hysterical considering the way 'profile 1.0' & 'profile 1.1' stand-alone owners are about to be left out in the cold by the BDA when they find they can't play 'profile 2.0' discs ("they knew what they were getting into").

But you can continue to deliberately mislead and just pretend that it all only relates to 'extras' eh?

Originally posted by glassd:
Disney is defecting, Fox is defecting, Warner is defecting
- Well those who know know that WB were set to go HD DVD exclusive that Friday.
That was the only 'knowable' fact (seeing as the WB board thought they had decided upon it).
It was hoped that with WB going HD DVD exclusive Disney & Fox would follow suit.
It looks now like Fox were only in there as a spoiler and never seriously contemplated changing.

Originally posted by glassd:
New Blu disk wont play on old players
- Er, it was the BDA themselves that have said this recently, not me.

Originally posted by glassd:
CES anouncement
- Er, we already done that one, like I said WB were indeed all set to go HD DVD.

It was a last minute decision by their new pro Blu-ray CEO & a couple of others on the WB board that presented everyone with a fait accompli.
Anyone saying the 'knew' WB were going Blu-ray beforehand is lying cos the board's decision had been to go HD DVD
(which was what I correctly said).

Originally posted by glassd:
its not over.
- Well clearly it isn't over.

HD DVD still has the exclusive support of the 2nd & 3rd largest Hollywood studios and over 60 independent & smaller studios.

HD DVD has also -
Quote:
According to Jodi Sally, Vice President of Marketing, Toshiba's Digital A/V Group, "HD DVD is the best way to watch movies in high definition. Our HD DVD players not only play back approximately 800 HD DVD titles available worldwide and deliver an entirely new level of entertainment, but also enhance the picture quality to near high definition on legacy DVD titles by all studios.

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showA...cleID=205800262

HD DVD players are selling very very well on Amazon USA right now - the HD A3 & HD A30 are at number 1 & 2 in their bestsellers DVD section and the HD A35 is at number 3.

In fact the HD A3 is the 3rd best selling electrical item Amazon USA are selling right now, period.

I know some of you guys can't abide seeing these facts but tough luck, it's my pleasure to present them for everyone to see.

(and no Mr Mexican & glassd, as far as camaro17 was concerned s/he was - before the post was edited - abusing people with the 'f' word and I thought it was not only against the rules & completely unnecessary but worth a gentle comment of disapproval.

That might be the kind of Afterdawn you'd prefer to see around here but it isn't mine.

It's also only fair to point out that what I said was hardly in the same league as some of the pathetically laughable stuff that has been aimed at me....and the latest habit of some people creating of new accounts just to make ridiculous personal attacks - or back up ridiculous personal attackers - is, frankly, risible.

You'll be a long time looking for any kind of direct abusive personal attack from me on any member here
(and certainly not one that uses abusive foul language).


Would that it applied the other way around.

But the way some of you guys have leapt to express such obvious fake outrage is as telling as always.

Not only are you (as usual) completely misrepresenting my comments here but your obvious bile and anger is as transparent as ever.

It's quite clear that anyone sympathetic to or putting what might be described as an 'HD DVD point of view' is quite intolerable to some of you.

Whether it's personal abuse or weak childish jibes it's very clear that unless 'pro Blu-ray' (or at least non-critical) comments are expressed you queue up to attempt to do your bully routine, day in day out.

It's pretty lame & sad really.
But the only person it reflects (badly) upon is yourselves doing it.

But don't worry.

I'll stick around and challenge the usual Blu-ray BS and post the facts & comment on what is really going on.

It's also very clear that HD DVD's fightback
(and the complete failure of Universal and/or Paramount to abandon HD DVD)
has really got up some of your noses.

Shame.

This, coupled with the recent admission from the BDA that 'profile 1.0' & 'profile 1.1' players may have severe problems playing the coming 'profile 2.0' discs, has been a nice fillip after the news of WB's move.

Like I said, no matter how much you wish it wasn't so, the truth is that this is all far from over.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 14:47

3515.1.2008 16:49

Im not mad or angry at you. I kinda think your funny. It appears that thoes of you in the Know, really never knew nothing. Nothing new thow. Where is your proof that the 51gig disk will work. Tosh said that they did not know if it would work. You know more than them? Para and Uni will be Blu soon enough.

3615.1.2008 18:28
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by glasssd:
Where is your proof that the 51gig disk will work. Tosh said that they did not know if it would work.
- Actually that is a quote from some time back.

Toshiba did not ever say "will not work with the relative handful of 1st gen HD A1 players" either.

Things had moved on by the time 51gb TL discs were approved by the DVD Forum.

Originally posted by glasssd:
You know more than them?
- I know what their reps were saying in the months after that quote came out.

They were very confident that even the 1st gen players could read TL discs (and 34gb DL HD DVD discs for that matter).

Originally posted by glasssd:
Para and Uni will be Blu soon enough.
- Dream on.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 18:29

3715.1.2008 20:08

There go three more, one permanently. If you want to argue with me do it in pm's.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

3815.1.2008 20:53

Originally posted by hughjars:
Toshiba did not ever say "will not work with the relative handful of 1st gen HD A1 players" either.
Things had moved on by the time 51gb TL discs were approved by the DVD Forum.
I think you need to update your sources. Dave Vaughn is an industry insider who has close ties to the HD DVD group. His posts lean heavily toward HD DVD and he has even been vilified at bluray.com so you know he's reliable and unbiased with this info. He says that the problem with TL51 now is not even compatibility but viability. (post dated Jan 8, 2008)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...51#post12735388

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

People here have been questioning the viability of BD50 replication, well I've got news for you, TL51 is a complete and utter failure if you think BD50 bad.

So much so that any company pursuing this avenue is doing so, not for real gain, but for a few headlines in the media.

If you don't believe me, where are the TL45 discs and prototype players we were promised in 2006, and where are the TL51 discs and players that were promised this CES?

TL51 is far from viable and anyone who thinks it is needs their head checked...

Edit: I will happily make a full retraction if I see a TL51 disc make it to the market...

Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn

Max and I can agree 100% on this. Even from my inside contacts with the HD DVD group have admitted that the chances that TL51 discs ever saw the light of day was very slim. The studios saw no need for the extra space. Also, the yields would have been VERY poor. I know Amir has stated that they would have been better than BD50's, but I don't think that would have been the case at all.

As for the rumor that Disney was testing it out etc..., that is plain BS as far as I have been able to find out.
This is the same Dave Vaughn who has been leaking the 100% accurate weekly Nielsen numbers.

According to his sources inside the HD DVD group: The chances of TL51 ever seeing the light of day are very slim. Plus the yields would have been very poor.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2008 @ 22:19

3915.1.2008 23:35

all so pointless in the end. toshiba and its loyalists will simply try to do a little pr spin and compare standalone sales which mean absolutely NOTHING. i say and back that because of the recent past history where hd-dvd touted "successful" SA sales, but could never take the cake in medium sold. apparently Warner found that to be quite an important piece to the puzzle as they went Blu.

it would be nice if retailers put a BUYER BEWARE or informative sign/paper depicting the current studio support each format has along with the current and UPCOMING titles. i really don't see how any INFORMED consumer would want to buy a HD-DVD player. let me guess, it upconverts really nice, fanfreakintastic. does nothing FOR HD-DVD or AGAINST their competitor Blu-Ray.

$249 walmart players will help combat this. either or in the end it won't matter, much like i said all along standalone sales won't determine any outcome. well atleast not for HD-DVD. now im being biased but arent we all. hahaha

4016.1.2008 4:26
nobrainer
Inactive

Originally posted by hade:
$249 walmart players will help combat this. either or in the end it won't matter, much like i said all along standalone sales won't determine any outcome. well atleast not for HD-DVD. now im being biased but arent we all. hahaha
instead of being a tool for a company why not fight the consumers side, or are you simply employed to be on this forum and gloat?

4116.1.2008 7:11

There goes another.




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

4216.1.2008 10:26

Ouch...

You'd think these people were defending each other's mothers here..



4316.1.2008 10:29
hughjars
Inactive

error5 those comments make for interesting reading but they are about yields and replication.
They don't say anything about whether or not the relative handful of HD A1 owners can or cannot read the TL discs.

As far as the rest of what is going on is concerned I think some people need a bit of a reality check.

We are not talking about a mature market where two players have been slugging it out for years and as a desperate last throw one cuts prices to dump stock & calls it a day.
That is simply not the case.

This is a fledgling market with 'drop in the ocean' movie sales volumes compared to SD-DVD
(which was and is always the primary consideration in any of this).
We are talking about two HD players fighting for the biggest slice of the HD market share.

Toshiba are the only player that is making the moves of any note to influence it. Unlike Blu-ray they have got the complete product and it's all about the price.
BR, by any serious practical gauge, isn't a better product and there is nothing to differentiate it for it to be worth a(ny) premium over HD-DVD.

Announcements of allegiances, posturing and positioning by the studios matters very little here - especially those post-dated for almost 6 months.
In fact that's just semantic noise at this point.

Paramount switched to HD-DVD a couple of months ago. I doubt it added much to the sales.
Similarly, the Warner switch away I doubt will detract sales. There's 6mths before they switch anyway and a lot can happen in that time.
It wouldn't be a surprise that Paramount came on board because Warner were looking to switch and certainly Toshiba wouldn't be announcing major price cuts like that unplanned.

The bottom line is price.

Get price right and the mainstream public comes onboard.

It's not about which studio backs you (maybe.....in 5 or 6 months time).
It's ALL about if mainstream public backs you.
It's the only backing both Sony and Toshiba are vying for and it's the only one that matters.

Toshiba's announcements are real and of meaning in this war.
Price was always a weapon HD-DVD had over and above BR technology. Toshiba are simply pressing home their advantage.

I would say this is the first move of any major note in this format war (the Black Friday sales come close but aren't sustained like this).

Toshiba's line up now ranges from $130 - $260 plus bundled HD-DVD's. Now that means serious business.

Quite frankly, that's not only blowing BR clean out of the water, it's actually hitting on and crossing into the SD player market.
The winner is going to be who can convert SD buyers into HD buyers.

Toshiba have just gone the right way about it and I reckon they're onto a winner.
They now just need to add Divx/Xvid support and they have a real weapon at SD DVD's throat.

Why would anyone looking to buy a sub $140-$200 quality upscaling SD DVD player (as millions still are, as the sales numbers continue to prove) buy anything other than the excellent HD A3 or HD A30?

Clearly it's an argument that is convincing a lot of customers on Amazon USA.

Not only are the Toshiba HD A3, HD A30 & HD A35 the top 3 best selling DVD players they stock but the HD A3 is the 9th best selling electrical item in the entire Amazon catalogue
(it was 3rd yesterday).

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jan 2008 @ 10:34

4416.1.2008 16:32
vinny13
Inactive

I have never seen an HD-DVD add on TV in my LIFE, just so you know...

I don't think the public will be "jumping in" because half of the people out there barely know what it is.

Toshiba hasn't done anything to convert SD buyers. They basically made a HD movie player and threw it on a shelf and left it for the consumer to find out wtf it was. When I first started seeing the "on Blu-Ray and HD-DVD" stuff I knew that Blu-Ray was a new format frm other commercials and I thought HD-DVD was just a better quality disc that was better then the DVD-9s and was for regular DVD players :S

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jan 2008 @ 16:39

4516.1.2008 19:38

I went to Best Buy last night, and got $100 back thanks to the price slashing. Thanks Toshiba.

4617.1.2008 11:36

Originally posted by hade:
all so pointless in the end. toshiba and its loyalists will simply try to do a little pr spin and compare standalone sales which mean absolutely NOTHING. i say and back that because of the recent past history where hd-dvd touted "successful" SA sales, but could never take the cake in medium sold. apparently Warner found that to be quite an important piece to the puzzle as they went Blu.


I tend to agree with this. Software sales is what drives the industry.

The Nielsen numbers for the week ending January 13 were announced by Home Media Magazine and tvpredictions.com:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/hddiscsales011708.htm

BluRay - 85%
HD DVD - 15%

This reflects the greatest disparity ever since Nielsen started releasing the ratios.

All the titles in the Top 10 were BluRay.

The top selling HD DVD - The Kingdom - sold only 10 percent as many discs as the top selling BluRay - 3:10 to Yuma.

These numbers are the first indicators of the damage done by the Warner announcement.

Next week we'll see if the Toshiba fire sale will have an effect.

4717.1.2008 12:16
ljbanner
Inactive

check the history on bluray its riddled with bugs
1 harry potter collection on blu had hd dvd on the last film so could not be played and people had to send it back
2 pirates of the carabian had problems with the tops of heads chopped off in most scenes had to be sent back
3 blade runner box set the last disc was copy of the first disc had to be sent back
4 terminator encoded in standard def instead of hd had to be recalled.
with all the new specs on films like 2.0 1.1 1.2 will not all be compatable with early adopters and even some newer blu players exept ps3 they will all shout out (yes thats sony looking out for its self)
i got a hd e1 from toshiba popped in the mummy and it stuttered for 5 seconds on the universal logo yet watched the whole film and all the extras without 1 glitch
following day plugged the ethernet cable into the back and it auto found and installed the latest firmware,popped in the mummy and bang no problems what so ever!and thet is why i am a hd dvd fan because it does what it says on the tin.

4817.1.2008 12:27

Good going for the HD DVD camp! I always like seeing a good scrap come down to the nitty gritty. Cheaper HD DVD players and cheaper discs means nothing but good for the consumer. If they can gain anything in the market at all, it'll bring a response from the BD camp and then we all win yet again. I'm still choosing to back both formats, but I'm being choosy on what I buy so this is fantastic. Once these HD movies are down around what a regular DVD costs, you'll see a pick up in purchases. Should be fun to watch.

4919.1.2008 3:17

Toshiba and the HD DVD camp are so desperate that is pathetic. The war is going to be over soon and Blue Ray seems to be the clear winner. Still...I don't bleep care. I'm still happy with DVD and Upconversion.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2008 @ 7:20

5019.1.2008 4:40
MrMexican
Inactive

Wow i haven't been able to log on for a couple of days and i come back to this post just to see what happens. And we have like over 4 people gone, why because they are telling the truth. I thank everyone for being united in times like theses. I have seen my name defended a couple of times yet i barely even know ya.Lol

Anyway before i get banned i just wanted to say something quick.

1. Blue Ray is being supported by %70 of studios. While hd dvd is being supported by %30 of studios.

(Meaning, i really don't care who wins as long as this format war ends and we can advance with the technology we have in hand.)

(How many people will agree with me that a blue ray disc or hd dvd disc will be necesary when a game needs more than 10,15, or even 20gbs of space for the games. Wait forget what i said about hd dvd it is just used for movies and not games.)

2.About the people getting banned , what can i say i too would ban anybody that would remind me of my hd dvd $300(more or less) paperweight player.

3. Nephilim (Moderator) i want to ask you something, but i want everyone to know why im getting banned.

Do you have any relation to hughjars? I mean you seem to favor the guy that starts these fight over the people that are trying to have an intelligent conversation.

Okay my rant is over go ahead neph do what you got to do. Ill be playing Rock Band in the meanwhile.




5119.1.2008 7:19

Buh bye child.


hermes,

Lets watch the language.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2008 @ 7:21



My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

5219.1.2008 19:42

I have been a member for a few years now. the site has been most helpfull
in correcting problems i had with some software i was using. Today i thought i would check comments on HD-DVD or Blu-ray players, since i will purchase one shortly, when price here in Toronto, Canada, comes in line with my budget. As far as players go the image i have seen in store demos
blows my mind, they are both great, and i will buy either one. The only thing stopping me now is price, HD is leading now, slightly. I currently own a sony upconverter, a jvc sd player, not a upconverter and a jvc dvd recorder( love my tv series).These players were each purchased about a year apart and do a wonderful job. Please Toshiba and Sony give me a break in price, after all I will buy your dvds. Afterdawn keep up the great job.

5319.1.2008 21:16

Do we really want sony monopolizing this market? The damn things would never come down in price. I think the price drop is a great idea. its a last ditch effort, but if sony is stubborn (prolly will be) perhaps this will save hddvd. then, dual format players could be the way to go.
Its all a pipe-dream though, as sony will likely become exclusive. but hey, i can dream...

5427.1.2008 18:04

The war rages on more and more.

5527.1.2008 19:52

Quote:
The war rages on more and more.
So true old friend................

5628.1.2008 15:43

In what has become a popular debate in the vein of “Will they or won’t they”, Jeff Bell confirmed that Microsoft has been in talks with the Blu ray association for sometime now regarding an add-on for the Xbox 360. The idea of a Blu ray add-on, similar to the current HD DVD add-on, first emerged when Peter Moore made mention of it prior to last year’s E3 conference.

"We've been talking to Blu ray all along because we have the best piece of software in the business, called HDi. It is the backbone that powers interactivity in HD-DVD and we have that available to potentially partner with others," Jeff Bell told 1UP.

"You never say never. I think we'd like to see how things evolve. Our commitment, however, to HD-DVD is profound and consistent, and we have done very, very well in term of our accessory sales."

While HD DVD still has major support from Universal, Paramount, and Dreamworks; the recent move by Warner Bros to go exclusively Blu ray later this year has changed the entire game plan for many directly involved in the next-gen movie format debate.

Bell also pointed out that it shouldn’t be seen as too crazy a concept for MS to support Blu ray. Sony’s Vaio line of computers all use Windows software. Fanboys often forget that these companies are out to make money and will partner with whoever it takes to make that money. It’s not about fanboys. It’s about business. If a Blu ray player could sell as an add-on for the Xbox 360. Everyone wins.

http://xboxfamily.com/xf/index.php?optio...d=1283&Itemid=2

you see that (annonimous cuz i dont feel like getting banned)??? stop being a fanboy and reason for one FOR ONE!!!

5729.1.2008 11:34

I'd still like to see the prices drop more. I realize that Toshiba is probably losing money already, but as a consumer, I can't justify spending too much money on a luxury item that basically provides a little more "eye-candy" than my current DVD player.

I could be wrong, but I think high-def will truly take off once the media is the same price as standard-def (or slightly more, an extra dollar or two).

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