AfterDawn: Tech news

HD-DVD hardware sales plummet

Written by Dave Horvath @ 25 Jan 2008 15:46 User comments (58)

HD-DVD hardware sales plummet Ever since movie giant Warner Brothers defected and sided with the Blu-ray camp, its been an uphill battle for those involved with rival HD-DVD. Just weeks after the announcement of WB switching sides, NPD data shows that hardware sales for HD-DVD came to a virtual halt. The NPD Group recorded Blu-ray as having an astounding 93% sales advantage.
According to raw data provided by NPD, consumers bought just 1,758 HD DVD players the week of Jan. 12, down from 14,558 players the week before. In contrast, consumers bought 21,770 Blu-ray Disc machines, up from 15,257 the previous week. The NPD however, would not confirm or deny the actual sales figures and labeled them as proprietary.

Analysts such as Steve Baker say that although this defection was definitely a hard blow to HD-DVD, he added the caveat that its still too soon to tell whether this is the start of a trend. Baker was quoted in saying, "It’s always very dangerous to make long-term assumptions based on one-week sales data."

Baker also noted that strong marketing pushes by Sony and Sharp to include Blu-ray players along with HDTVs haven't helped the cause. "And we haven’t seen the results of Toshiba significantly dropping the price of their set-top players" Baker said. "One week just doesn’t give us enough data points to say something is going on for the long term. It only tells me in one week something happened."

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58 user comments

125.1.2008 16:22

83:17 Nielsen/VideoScan Weekly Sales Numbers
Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending January 20th

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...2708/index.php

WE: BD-83% HDD-17% YTD: BD-76% HDD-24% SI: BD-64% HDD-36%


Looking at Nielsen/VideoScan numbers its safe to say that its going to be a trend until HD-DVD is gone.With the lack of major studio support they can't make any kind of impact.You got to have Software to drive Hardware sells.

225.1.2008 16:28

But. . .But HDDVD still hasn't lost yet.

325.1.2008 16:52

Originally posted by ZeusAV:
But. . .But HDDVD still hasn't lost yet.


Until I see the numbers start to move the other direction from what they are doing now week after week, I would say HD-dvd's time is pretty limited.

425.1.2008 16:54

Originally posted by ZeusAV:
But. . .But HDDVD still hasn't lost yet.

You are right....but not many can recover from a .50 cal shot to the head....HD DVD is just bleeding out

525.1.2008 19:13
FlakMNKEY
Inactive

It's sad clearly the superior format is losing this fight. Wish sony fan boy would wake up and realize this.

625.1.2008 19:34

I found this article interesting about the week in question.

http://www.dailygame.net/news/archives/007137.php

725.1.2008 20:05
hughjars
Inactive

It's not often that Afterdawn is behind the curve with the news but this is one such time.

These NPD numbers have been examined and explained.

There was no Blu-ray sales spike.
There were a lot of Blu-ray freebies.
That's where the Blu-ray extra numbers come from.

It's true that HD DVD sales tumbled
(hardly a surprise given the recent Warner pledge to go Blu-ray exclusive from June 2008 and the torrent of 'HD DVD is dead' Blu-ray PR BS that has been targeted at & flooding every media outlet available)
but the fact is that they have since recovered as their very strong showing on Amazon USA proves
(they are only the world's 2nd largest retailer - and Walmart the world's largest - responsible for 90,000+ HD DVD sales on Black Friday - do not get counted in the NPD numbers).

Not only are the HD A3, HD A30 & HD A35 all in the Amazon USA best selling DVD listings (the HD A3 is at number 2, the HD A30 at number 3 & the HD A35 at number 8 today - the best selling Blu-ray player is at number 9
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/ele...ref=pd_ts_e_nav )
but the HD A30 is also currently the 30th best selling item in the entire Amazon electrical item inventory - no Blu-ray players make it into the top 100 there.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/ele..._2?ie=UTF8&pg=2

You can bet that now HD DVD sales numbers have recovered that 'leak' won't be repeated.

The recurring problem Blu-ray have is that they keep firing off their big guns & trying so hard to get their message out and accepted & yet for all that HD DVD has not died & disappeared.

HD DVD is still here & still (thanks to imports) with the most available content & the most exclusive content.

If you want Universal & Paramount movies you are only going to see them on HD DVD (personally I'm looking forward to American Gangster, Beowulf, Cloverfield).

Those are the facts.

In fact this weeks Nielson numbers show a small but positive rise in HD DVD sales.
Not a fall. Despite the PR campaign.

Not only do Blu-ray still have HD DVD to fight against but their fight with SD DVD is laughable.

Blu-ray does not even have 1% of the total movie disc market.

Blu-ray has 'won' nothing.

Quote:
NPD clarifies Blu-ray's market share the week after Warner went Blu
Posted Jan 25th 2008 10:35AM by Ben Drawbaugh
Filed under: Industry, Blu-ray, HD DVD

Some were very quick to crown Blu-ray the winner when we learned that the Blu-ray player owned 93 percent of the HD movie market the week after Warner went Blu.

Evidently the numbers were leaked and the NPD group was quick to respond in an attempt to clear things up. As expected, some we're just as quick to discount the Blu-ray success -- which is just as silly as saying the numbers alone mean Blu-ray has won.

Two things happened that week that we're not so sure could continue forever; HD DVD sales were down, and Blu-ray sales were up.

With some help from a a few promotions (free player with a new TV) -- stand-alone Blu-ray player sales were up 30 percent (22k, up from 15k) -- but this alone wasn't enough to shift HD DVD share from 40 percent down to 7.

HD DVD only sold 1,758 stand-alone players during the same week, compared to 14,558 the week before.
So while Blu-ray was up 30, HD DVD was down 88 percent.

So it isn't that the Blu-ray sales were all that spectacular, but instead it was that HD DVD sales were way down.

At this point it doesn't mean anything, but if it continues for more than a month then that's whole another story entirely.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/25/npd...-went/#comments
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Jan 2008 @ 20:31

825.1.2008 20:10

I still havent figured out whats the reason of supporting a Media Format?
Even tho that i am a Sony fun (Not Supporter).

Edit:
Who the F** said that BD is fighting against SD-DVD? and if BD sales are laughable against SD-DVD what HD-DVD sales are? Hilarious maybe?

You head must be made by wood.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Jan 2008 @ 20:15

925.1.2008 20:43
hughjars
Inactive

SDF_GR it's not about "supporting" a media format, it's about preferring one over the other and saying why.

It's also about telling the truth about what is going on and avoiding the PR BS.

Blu-ray is (by a country mile) the least consumer friendly product.

From pricing to DRM/'security' to the intent behind it (they absolutely do not want it to be another 'better' DVD.....which is why those who imagine they'll soon be copying movies and burning them to BD -R/-RE discs are in for a shock) it is not the better option at all.

Both formats are fighting to try to be the next DVD.
SD DVD is the real target.

Unless of course the Blu-ray side have given up on that one and recognise they are too late to stand a chance of doing that and so have decided to bilk their niche PS3 market as much as they can - which is always a possibility.

But only HD DVD can be the next DVD as only HD DVD can make the change to high def & not leave anyone behind with the switch through using the Twin discs (or to a lesser extent combo discs).

Blu-ray cannot do this.

The truth is that Blu-ray does not even have 1% of the total movie disc market so it's ruidiculous to say it has won anything.
Clearly the high def market is tiny and immature.

Because it is so small it only takes a small move incvolving a few thousand units and big 'swings' appear to be happening (as the week or 2 picked out in isolation here demonstrate only too clearly).

It's all 'drop in the ocean stuff' - and there are people spending a lot of time doing their best to talk-up Blu-ray & trying to make mountains out of molehills.

1025.1.2008 20:56
saltynuts
Inactive

Originally posted by FlakMNKEY:
It's sad clearly the superior format is losing this fight. Wish sony fan boy would wake up and realize this.







come on now thats not gonna happend if you paid 600.00 for a console would you want it to lose.however it is a shame to see that the fate of a new form of movie watching be decided by a game console.its really a shame

1125.1.2008 21:04
hughjars
Inactive

Sometimes I think it's a fair analogy to think of this as akin to the DVD-A folks debating with the SACD folks; a bit silly without putting it into perspective against CD/MP3 numbers, even if the quality etc means they are not the 'same'
(although the heavy presence of a game console in this forces the fanboy into it all, sadly).

What you almost never see mentioned much here are the official sales figures for standard DVDs versus HD (both formats).
By that I mean actual numbers, not ratios or percentages.

And there on that point the silence is deafening.......although sometimes we are 'treated' to the Blu-ray fanclub complaining that it's got nothing to do with SD DVD!

1225.1.2008 21:10
hughjars
Inactive

.....oh, and let's not forget that that is 21,000 Sony, Sharp & Panasonic 'profile 1.0' player owners set to be disappointed when the 'profile 2.0' discs arrive.

I guess thats one way to get rid of the 'profile challanged' blu ray players, give them away.
I guess it's easy to 'giveaway' for free the obsolete spec player stocks.

1325.1.2008 22:17

Originally posted by hughjars:

The truth is that Blu-ray does not even have 1% of the total movie disc market so it's ruidiculous to say it has won anything.
Clearly the high def market is tiny and immature.



so that makes hddvd less than 0.5%..........what a joke
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Jan 2008 @ 22:19

1425.1.2008 23:08

Why are so many of the posters on AfterDawn HD-DVD fanboys?

I always thought that most of the people here would float above the fray and be proponents of downloading HD content and at best use whatever hd media format(s) simply as a form of storage.

Does anyone here actually have a vested interest in either format "winning" the format war?

Now just for the sake of disclosure, I have been a Sony fan to some degree or another for a long time, I just like their consumer electronic devices, and have so since the days of the walkman, but I have hardly been slave to their foisting of media formats, I didn't do Betamax, Minidisc, ATRAC, but I do own a couple of Memory Stick Pro Duo only because I own a PSP, but I haven't even bought a single UMD movie since I would rather rip from one of my DVDs and transfer it to the memory stick.

I prefer the Blu-Ray tech only because of it's ability to store more data than HD-DVD but still have yet to buy a player or burner because the prices are still ridiculous to me, I'm sure as soon as the prices hit that magic $100 level, I am sure I will. If they never do and HD-DVD did, I am sure I would buy an HD-DVD burner instead.

I have nothing to gain from either format becoming a standard, and I am guessing most people don't either. So why the zealous nature of praising one format over the other? Is this just tribalism gone a step too far?

1525.1.2008 23:35

Originally posted by relaxin:
So why the zealous nature of praising one format over the other?
I made a $600 purchase of a PS3 is why for me...

1625.1.2008 23:48
red2tango
Inactive

here i am on my ps3 n i see the BS hddvd fanboys r sayn.wenever theres gud numbrs they boost stfu.u sad that u wasted money on that junk.plz stop humiliating yourself.

1725.1.2008 23:48
red2tango
Inactive

here i am on my ps3 n i see the BS hddvd fanboys r sayn.wenever theres gud numbrs they boost stfu.u sad that u wasted money on that junk.plz stop humiliating yourself.

1825.1.2008 23:48
red2tango
Inactive

here i am on my ps3 n i see the BS hddvd fanboys r sayn.wenever theres gud numbrs they boost stfu.u sad that u wasted money on that junk.plz stop humiliating yourself.

1926.1.2008 0:02

Originally posted by hughjars:
.....oh, and let's not forget that that is 21,000 Sony, Sharp & Panasonic 'profile 1.0' player owners set to be disappointed when the 'profile 2.0' discs arrive.

no where near the number of "disappointed" HD-DVD owners who will not be able to buy Warner movies in the VERY NEAR FUTURE.

Originally posted by hughjars:
Not only are the HD A3, HD A30 & HD A35 all in the Amazon USA best selling DVD listings (the HD A3 is at number 2, the HD A30 at number 3 & the HD A35 at number 8 today - the best selling Blu-ray player is at number 9

ummm, the MAJORITY OF AMERICANS do not shop at AMAZON.COM. your bestseller numbers mean little when addressed on the larger scale(take it with a grain of salt).

it should HOWEVER, be noted that even when OVER PRICED, Blu-ray players are still able to compete with UNDER PRICED HD-DVD players.

there is no OFFICIAL WORD from CONSUMERS that those even purchasing HD-DVD players on Amazon, are purchasing said players to play HD-DVDs. as you, yourself continue to say, they are great at UPSCALING. for all anyone knows they could be purchasing them for that very reason, i mean it sure can't be the HD-DVD CONTENT haha. also looking at the price, they are practically GIVING THEM AWAY.

COULD AMAZON BE CLEARING THEIR INVENTORY???? think about it...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Jan 2008 @ 0:16

2026.1.2008 0:19

Quote:
Originally posted by relaxin:
So why the zealous nature of praising one format over the other?
I made a $600 purchase of a PS3 is why for me...

Well, at least he's honest. I think that is a big reason why some feel like that, and some MS fanboys just like to stick it Sony on the other side.

2126.1.2008 1:15
Sagen
Inactive

I personally don't care who wins this so called war... after all the corporate donkeys seems to win no matter what. Soon as there is only one format, the loser will find a way or make some kind of corporate deal to make money out of it.
Somehow, every time I read something the hughjar writes, it seems like he's a "corporate" person in disguise. Trying to sell HD as much as he can. Damn.... it must be a hard job.

2226.1.2008 6:57

Quote:
Why are so many of the posters on AfterDawn HD-DVD fanboys?
well, im not sure about the fanboy thing, but what i can tell u is that the only reason im a member here is because of sony.a few years back, i used to spend alot of money buying movies on dvd. what was happening, was my children and there friends were not taking care of my dvd collection. i was really getting pissed, having to buy the same movie twice. if you have children then u know what im talking about, and if u are a child--trust me u will know what im talking about later on in life. that being said, lets get back to the topic. i was in bestbuy one day, when i stumbled across dvdxcopy platinum. this was a really good thing. i could make a copy of the movie for a fraction of the cost of the original. this worked great for a couple of years. i could put up my original (15.00-$20.00) and let them(my rug rats) destroy the $.50 copy. then came the day that sony came out with the ARcoSS copy protection. i think it was on resident evil "Apocalypse". thats when i knew i had to find something new.i got online and found a couple of handy little apps, called dvddecrypter and dvd shrink. all was going well when one day dvddecrypter asked me to up date, and thats when i saw the link for afterdawn. been here ever since. the point im trying to make is this, sony,lionsgate and walt disney are really making it hard as hell to make back-ups on standard dvds. can u imagine what it will be like with the new blue-ray protection? it doesent take a rocket scientist to figure this one out. dont get me wrong, i have a lot of sony products in my house and in my vehicles and there great, in fact the quality is outstanding.the only thing worse than sony is microsoft (which backs hd-dvd). i would go blue-ray if they would drop: the price of profile 2.0 hardware,bd+ copy protection, and the water mark technology. other than that, i hope someone else has something to offer. ive seen some really good blue-ray movies,good audio equipment, and some great sony hd tvs, but with there track record (on copy protection), its really hard to trust them. before u call anybody a fanboy u should realize where ur at. most people at afterdawn believe in consumers rights, and blue-ray seems to go the opposite way.i know hd-dvd and blue-ray are not using all of there copy protection right now, because there trying to win a war. thats why people with component cables can still play hd quality video. but when all is said and done blue-ray has a very robust arsenal. i know that hd-dvd has alot of the same capabilities, but sony has a track record of using it. if u dont believe me, hang around here( at afterdawn) and watch. almost every thread about problems "backing-up" movies comes from sony,lionsgate,and walt disney. here is some of the stuff im talking about...... products
Quote:
were expected to work "off the shelf" and didn't require frequent "firmware updates" to do so. With the new generation of Blu-ray video players, however, this is the norm: firmware updates are to be expected because the players are constantly evolving and are built around a DRM scheme (AACS) that can be "updated" in the event that a hack is found. Blu-ray goes one step further and adds another layer of anti-copy technology known as BD+, but the latter is only now starting to be used. As it turns out, it appears that it's causing problems for many honest customers.
Case in point: two new Blu-ray titles that have just been released—Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer and The Day After Tomorrow. Both of these titles have been reported to exhibit various degrees of failure on some Blu-ray players. Some refuse to play until after an interminable two-minute delay, others skip randomly making watching the movie futile, and then there is this gem:
So what is the issue with these titles? Both make use of advanced features that utilize BD-J, the Java virtual machine that is part of the Blu-ray spec. Silver Surfer uses BD-J to add a more dubious "feature"—the BD+ copy protection that is layered on top of Blu-ray discs' existing AACS copy protection. While some have claimed that it is BD-J that is at fault and not BD+, the latter requires the former to operate (it runs in a Java virtual machine), and a quick perusal of what BD+ actually does indicates that it is quite likely the culprit. BD+ is being rushed out to titles only shortly after the spec was finalized, partly in response to hackers cracking the protection on AACS earlier this year. This wouldn't be the first time that extra layers of copy protection have harmed legitimate consumers: earlier this year Sony had to recall 20 DVD titles protected with ARccOS that caused problems on some DVD players.
well if sony wins i think we will find out just how smart people are. slysoft will have there hands full and there pockets too. it will be a never ending battle. just thought i should let everybody know. imo this is all about copy protection. plain and simple.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Jan 2008 @ 7:34

2326.1.2008 8:31

Hah, would you look at that!

The blu fan boys found the red font button!!

Congrats guys!

2426.1.2008 8:56
nobrainer
Inactive

i would have supported HD-DvD its a sham the MPAA decided on DRM over this format and pulled ranks to destroy it.

@ gamename

that is why the MPAA has chosen Blu-Ray, Sony, Disney and Fox are the biggest supporters of DRM lockins global price fixing (region coding)

BD+ works on BD-J and many players cannot be updated past profile 1.0 and will see errors with the future evolving DRM.

You are right about BD+ being the worst anti consumer DRM ever invented as its not just diminishing your ability to do as you please with content you own it has greater personal liberties consequences to as in profile 2.0 i can see movie studios taking advantage of the phone home (as sony were caught lying about this ability in XCP Rootkit) authorisation of movies as it is already common knowledge that all blu-ray players will be phoning home with the unique serial number, usage data, IP address and will have the ability to be remotely disabled if a line of players is found to be venerable to hacks. this information was on both dell's site and @ http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=135 but was swiftly removed by BD+ Technologies LLC.


The DVD War Against Consumers

Originally posted by hyperlink:
But all software-based copy-protection schemes can be broken. The only way a DRM can really work is to control all of the hardware the video data flow through, including the monitor. The problem is that at some point an unencrypted video signal is sent to a display device. It can be split off before it gets there or videotaped once it's on the screen.

The AACS (Advanced Access Content System) standard supported by both the Sony and Microsoft camps addresses this problem. The standard calls for scaling down HD content to a low resolution if the player isn't hooked up to an HDCP-compliant connection. HDCP (High Bandwidth Digital Content Protection) is a DRM system invented by Intel (INTC) that attempts to control video and audio as it flows out of a player and onto a display. In other words, if the player is connected to a monitor without the right cables, the quality of the image will be deliberately degraded.

Blu-ray, however, goes beyond the AACS, incorporating two other protection mechanisms: The ROM Mark is a cryptographic element overlaid on a "legitimate" disk. If the player doesn't detect the mark, then it won't play the disc. This will supposedly deal with video-camera-in-the-theatre copies.
STRANGLEHOLD ON CONTENT.

Even more extreme is a scheme called BD+ that deals with the problem of what to do when someone cracks the encryption scheme. The players can automatically download new crypto if the old one is broken. But there's an ominous feature buried in this so-called protection mechanism: If a particular brand of player is cryptographically "compromised," the studio can remotely disable all of the affected players. In other words, if some hacker halfway across the globe cracks Sony's software, Sony can shut down my DVD player across the Net.

The Blu-ray's DRM scheme is simply anti-consumer. The standard reflects what the studios really want, which is no copying of their material at all, for any reason. They're clearly willing to take active and unpleasant measures to enforce this. Last year's Sony/BMG rootkit fiasco comes to mind (see BW Online, 11/29/05, "Sony BMG's Costly Silence"). The possibility that they would disable thousands of DVD players, not because they're hacked but just because they might be vulnerable, would have been unthinkable a few years ago; it's clearly an option today.

sony DRM = AACS (yes they are also part of aacs la), secuROM, XCP Rootkit, BD+(Sony and Cryptography Research these are the ppl blocking 3rd party ink cartridges), ARccOS, MicroVault USB Rootkit, ATRAC (but sony is synonymous for propertarian lock-ins to sony only brand products)

what the MPAA/RIAA lobby did after being caught with their pants down by Mark Russinovich (take a gander on his forums) with XCP lobbied to make it illegal to debug and find DRM and protected them if your hardware is broken by it!

Spy Act Only Protects Vendors and Their DRM now they can do anything to protect their media! beware of DRM....
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Jan 2008 @ 9:43

2526.1.2008 11:22
ken9771
Inactive

You people are constantly complaining about the copy-protection schemes. I can understand the desire to make a copy because the media becomes damaged. Just remember when compaining
about this in regards to the high price of the titles;
it is the consumer that determines what they cost. If everyone
wasn't in such a big hurry to purchase them at the higher costs, then
all these movie discs would be selling for less than five bucks each.
At that price or even lower they would be avaiable and the makers and sellers would still be providing them, then it would be less painfull
to just purchase another cheap copy if you screwed one up.
So you all, the consumer have brought all this on by yourselves,
because you set the price. Everyone knows that the main reason
people make a copy is to steal, so this other war of copy-protection
will only keep escalating.

For what this info is worth; Blu-ray media has a protective coating that reduces the damage.

http://www.durabis.com/en/index.htm

2626.1.2008 11:56

Some people you just dont get it, do you?
The Copy Protection has nothing to do with the Media.
If HD-DVD win the war be sure that all the Copy Protection from BD will move to HD-DVD and thats for sure, Movie industries will demand it.

I can bet my house that none of you complaining about copy protections you haven't even got A BD or HDDVD recorder, some of you amy dont even have an HD/DB reader.

I have paid 659euros for a 60gb PS3 and i dont give a f** about that war.
Why? Cause with less than 300euros I can get a superb HD-DVD player.
That ends the war for me.

2726.1.2008 12:04

lots of people think blu-ray has won. but HD-DVD never died. It's still being supported by 2 big movie stuios. So it's going to take a while for hd-dvd to "die". Even if HD-DVD dies, Blu-ray hasn't won anything. 5% on movie sale does seems like a "winner" to me. personally i don't understand why anyone would go with blu-ray my reasons is PRICE. HD-DVD is already $100 or less. But blu-ray is not. Why would anyone buy 2 or 3 times more for the same quality of a movie? If HD-DVD want to win than they better drop the price to $80 per player and get WB to release both format.

2826.1.2008 12:40
red2tango
Inactive

Originally posted by rihgt682:
lots of people think blu-ray has won. but HD-DVD never died. It's still being supported by 2 big movie stuios. So it's going to take a while for hd-dvd to "die". Even if HD-DVD dies, Blu-ray hasn't won anything. 5% on movie sale does seems like a "winner" to me. personally i don't understand why anyone would go with blu-ray my reasons is PRICE. HD-DVD is already $100 or less. But blu-ray is not. Why would anyone buy 2 or 3 times more for the same quality of a movie? If HD-DVD want to win than they better drop the price to $80 per player and get WB to release both format.
yes and toshiba cancelled their CES for no reason right lmao

2926.1.2008 12:57
hughjars
Inactive

ken9771, the only reason Blu-ray has that coating is cos they are more vulnerable as the data layer is so much closer to the surface edge of the disc.

That's a really daft point anyways as any disc manafacturer worth their salt will be selling that additional protection on all their lines as an added value feature (as indeed some have now started to do).

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
Some people you just dont get it, do you?
The Copy Protection has nothing to do with the Media.
If HD-DVD win the war be sure that all the Copy Protection from BD will move to HD-DVD and thats for sure, Movie industries will demand it.
- Don't be silly.

That would leave every HD DVD player & drive sold to date (now well over 1 million) unable to play any movies with that BD+ absurd dog's breakfast on it.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
I can bet my house that none of you complaining about copy protections you haven't even got A BD or HDDVD recorder, some of you amy dont even have an HD/DB reader.
- .....and that alters the facts about not being able to copy Blu-ray discs how?

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
I have paid 659euros for a 60gb PS3 and i dont give a f** about that war.
- Sure, that's why you bothered to come on here, right?

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
Why? Cause with less than 300euros I can get a superb HD-DVD player. That ends the war for me.
- But that's hardly the issue.

Blu-ray leaves people behind.
That and the so-called 'security' are it's biggest problems (with over-charging for it a close 3nd).

Only HD DVD has Twin discs & combo discs.

The Blu-ray fanclub might want to pretend that doesn't matter but it does.
Anyone who ever took a DVD round to a friend's or their family knows it matters
(especially for those almost certain to never bother with high def).

3026.1.2008 13:39

Originally posted by hughjars:

- Don't be silly.

That would leave every HD DVD player & drive sold to date (now well over 1 million) unable to play any movies with that BD+ absurd dog's breakfast on it.
As everything looks right now, they will anyway, but even if HD-DVD wins the war you think that they cant make a Copy protection compatible with todays player?

If you believe that you are getting money for posting/supporting here HD-DVD.

Originally posted by hughjars:
- .....and that alters the facts about not being able to copy Blu-ray discs how?
of course it does, cause till when you will be able to buy a BD-recorder/Player HD-TV the Copy Protection can be unlocked, or even removed.

Originally posted by hughjars:
- Sure, that's why you bothered to come on here, right?
Everyone that reads news is a format supporter? hahah
At least i am not here for making money by posting.

Originally posted by hughjars:
- But that's hardly the issue.

Thats the only issue, if you had the money to buy original disc you wouldent bother with copy protection, and dont give that bullshit about backing up your own disc's and shit, cause that is at least hilarious.

Originally posted by hughjars:
Blu-ray leaves people behind.
....and what are you?Robben hood? and you care about people so much?
Many other companies have done much worst things than a copy protection, i havent seen you posting about anything else.

I really do starting to believe that you are an HD-DVD paid supporter.

3126.1.2008 13:57

Somebody wake me up when the fat lady starts singing the praises of the winning HD format. Then I'll buy an HD player.

Off topic, but does anyone know a good repair shop for my BetaMax. The tapes are starting to jitter. Thanks.

3226.1.2008 14:46

Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:

Off topic, but does anyone know a good repair shop for my BetaMax. The tapes are starting to jitter. Thanks.
why not ask "HJ" ? I'm sure he knows a betamax repair shop and for sure he can also quote you the amazon betamax repair shop customer visits that show you just why it's the most popular repair shop in the world...after all, the entire Planet Earth plus parts of Uranus, Venus, and Mars buy all their equipment from Amazon - at least I reckon it must be that way or HJ wouldn't repeat the same sales figures in TWENTY SEVEB DIFFERENT THREADS ( yup i counted ) to show how wonderful and superior HD-DVD is :), would he ?

I mean if the entire planet didn't buy everything from amazon then that kind of makes him an ultra radical no.1 Fan-Boy doesn't it ? and we all know how much he hates obsessive fan-boys ( at least those of the blu persuasion ;)

3326.1.2008 15:05
RNR1995
Inactive

It amazes me how the "media" has touted how HD DVD is dead since Warners announcement. I truly think the press is one sided on this.
Keep both formats for all I care, it will be a cold day in hell when I pony up $30.00 for a movie!

3426.1.2008 17:16
ken9771
Inactive

How about this then, right now there are who knows how many
thousand people arguing back and forth,
We have petitions being signed for both sides.
One person even commented that he would have his cat sign one if
he was able to teach it to.

How about doing something that would really work;
Start a new petition and get "EVERYONE" to sign it,
have everyone agree not to buy any more music cds, regular
DVD movies, HD type, whatever until the price would be lowered
to what ever you list in the petition.
Like 2 bucks for 1 yr old music cd releases, 3 bucks for newer ones.
Have these max amounts that the signers would purchase them at.
Fact is I'm sure that using the music cd example, if "everyone"
went along with this and no one defected, then they would drop to that price and money would still be made for those supplying them to us. Manufacturing costs are almost nothing conmpaired to what
everyone has been willing to buy them for, its simply supply and demand, that is why they are 30 bucks, not that it costs so much that
they have to charge that amount. Also you could include a requirement that both formats remain or else those signing refrain from purchasing either.
Direct all this useless energy to something that would work if
you can bring enough people to this.

Finally there is another option that is about as likely to
make a diference as the current petitions, do as Jim Morris said
in one of his songs,,, "You can petition the Lord with Prayer!"

3526.1.2008 19:11

Can we please come up with a different word than "fanboy" Its quickly become a cliche. Its yet another example of a word that someone hears once, then starts using it as if they had been using it their whole life. Doesnt anyone feel silly using it?

3626.1.2008 20:11
ken9771
Inactive

Since this post is about hardware sales for HD-DVD coming to a virtual halt; Be advised Circuit City stores nation wide are currently trying to reverse that as I type this. All stores are dumping their stock of players, clearance prices at this time. Good time to pick up a few extra players!

3727.1.2008 6:41

What a joke this all is, first of all no matter what kind of protection these moguls put out, there will always be somebody to crack it.

Also ken9771 hit the nail right on the head, we the stupid consumers go out like dummies with that I just gotta have one of those attitudes, we as Americans can really be stupid people and the most spoiled, stand fast, don't pay those ridiculous prices and see how fast the prices will drop, but of course that will never happin not in America anyway, like I said spoiled and stupid.

I also have been a sony supporter and customer as long as I can remember and I'm 59 now, but after what they did with the rootkit scandal is when I said enough, after that I never bought anything sony and will not in the future, sure you can say well you can't just boycott them many are doing the nasty to consumers, yes, but, sony is the front runner to all that crap and the rootkit was the final blow for me, I'm hard core when I get screwed like that, in my old little way I am fighting back, how many others are doing what I am, hardly none, but I don't care, in my own little way I am sticking it back up their ass.

As far as hd-dvd or blue ray, again they both can kiss my ass cause I will not pay those kind of prices, also we just start a nice collection and than they want you to start a new one, yeah right, as of right now I am happy with my regular dvd movies, I can still remember when they first came out how astonished we were at that great picture quality, well quess what, I'm still happy with it, so until these new disc's, rom's, writers, players can set a price with todays dvd standards all this hd, ray or whatever can stick it, just imagine if most of us thought the same way.

It's such a no-brainer solution, you hit those moguls where it hurts the most, in their pocket book, and see how fast they would respond to our demands, but again, of course it won't happin, stupid spoiled Americans, and they laugh all the way to the bank while they stick it up our ass, and we let them.

3827.1.2008 9:38
ken9771
Inactive

quote]we the stupid consumers go out like dummies with that I just gotta have one of those attitudes, we as Americans can really be stupid people and the most spoiled, stand fast, don't pay those ridiculous prices and see how fast the prices will drop, but of course that will never happin not in America anyway, like I said spoiled and stupid


You are right about this, good example is all the dummies standing
in line days in advance, camping out in front of stores to buy the next "improvement" in hardware, and waiting days at the doors of movie theaters just to be the first to see a new movie release.
That is why the prices are so high as compaired to how low they would be if the majority would not be in such a damm hury.

I gave up watching all movies a while back, stoped watching
TV the first of the year, and a week ago got rid of my HD TV.
I'm now 56 years old, I've decided that I've seen enough of all that
make believe crap to last a life time. I never will go back and watch
either movies or TV, not unless I've done everything else in the world that is possible to do. For now a small part of new things to do has been a few comments here at this site about the formats.

For me I plan on only using the winning format/s for only data storage.

Its' a big world, there is a lot to do other than giving up a large part of your life to chaseing after the "next" level of video,
sound, tv and I guess computer games likewise, maybey some more of those visiting this site may "realize that" before they find most of their life is gone, never to have it back.

3927.1.2008 10:00
nobrainer
Inactive

@ ken9771

many ppl are doing just that as much of the media now is all mostly meh, and why you ask, well its because its about generating money not talented productions so hours of inane, completely mindless dribble is allowed to enter your living room, or on the other side ppl are pirating the material so they are not forced to jump through hoops to use their media that they purchased legally, as at the end of the day the pirated content is more user friendly as its not locked into someone's (RIAA/MPAA) draconian, propertarian, anti consumer DRM.

either way its all bad for the artists and actors because of the industries greed.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Jan 2008 @ 10:03

4027.1.2008 10:44
ken9771
Inactive

The chance to make a profit is what is the driving force
that gives us all the newer, "better" things. On the other side
it is the consumer "us" that eventually has "control' over what level
the prices could drop to. This system although not perfect works to our favor vrs any other possible economic model; it supplies us with all these newer things, some good and others good only after they convince us that we were lacking something important in our lives because we had not had them before.


Quote:
hours of inane, completely mindless dribble is allowed to enter your living room
Just remember we the consumers decide what is sold and TV is no different. Everything that we see on TV now (all the crap),
is on there only because the people have decided that they want it to be that which is. Tells you a lot about how stupid people now are,
the majority living today. The programming on TV is just a reflection of the watchers!

As to the "pirating", now that the genie has been out of the bottle this long, we can't go back, so both sides will just keep taking it to the next level.

4127.1.2008 11:10

aS i DID WITH THE 1ST DVD PLAYERS- i'LL WAIT FOR HD-DVD PLAYERS TO BE AROUND $79- AND THAT won't BE TOO LONG FROM NOW- I'm happy with what I have

4227.1.2008 11:36
ken9771
Inactive

fplman

If you want one today at $79.99 use this link.

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=...-670-HD370-INOI

4327.1.2008 12:36

Originally posted by fplman:
aS i DID WITH THE 1ST DVD PLAYERS- i'LL WAIT FOR HD-DVD PLAYERS TO BE AROUND $79- AND THAT won't BE TOO LONG FROM NOW- I'm happy with what I have
Exactly. My upconverting HDMI does just fine right now. Whoever wins will have to sell them at sub $100 prices if they want 'joe consumer' to buy them.

4427.1.2008 12:40

Quote:
The chance to make a profit is what is the driving force
that gives us all the newer, "better" things. On the other side
it is the consumer "us" that eventually has "control' over what level
the prices could drop to. This system although not perfect works to our favor vrs any other possible economic model; it supplies us with all these newer things, some good and others good only after they convince us that we were lacking something important in our lives because we had not had them before.


Quote:
hours of inane, completely mindless dribble is allowed to enter your living room
Just remember we the consumers decide what is sold and TV is no different. Everything that we see on TV now (all the crap),
is on there only because the people have decided that they want it to be that which is. Tells you a lot about how stupid people now are,
the majority living today. The programming on TV is just a reflection of the watchers!
It is 'stupid' to make such a broad generalization. Evidently you missed the memo about the National Geographic channel, The History Channel, The Bloomberg channel, The Learning Channel and a litany of others.

4527.1.2008 13:55
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
As everything looks right now, they will anyway
- No, that is just you playing your own little guessing game here.
You have no basis for saying this other than you think it might happen.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
even if HD-DVD wins the war you think that they cant make a Copy protection compatible with todays player?
- It might be technically possible on new players (tho without significant revisions I doubt it) but you are left with a major problem of ensuring compatibility with 1 million+ existing players.

BD+ and the Blu-ray watermarking system are not a 100% software based system, they incorporate elements of specific & unique hardware too.

So no, I disagree.
I think you are just guessing wrong here so you can try to claim Blu-ray is either as bad as anything else or that the other format, HD DVD, is potentially just as bad as Blu-ray.
But the reality is nothing like so simplistic.

.....and if I may say that's the kind of disingenuous & spurious 'argument' I'd expect from a project hydra paid shill.
Are you getting paid for this speculative nonsense?

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
If you believe that you are getting money for posting/supporting here HD-DVD.
- Wow, stunning logic.
Sorry my bad, there was I thinking you were discussing this sensibly.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
of course it does, cause till when you will be able to buy a BD-recorder/Player HD-TV the Copy Protection can be unlocked, or even removed.
- Maybe you'd like to rephrase that in intelligible English?

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
Everyone that reads news is a format supporter? hahah
- How the hell does that follow?

You originally said "i dont give a f** about that war".

It clearly follows that you 'care' enough to repeatedly post about it here.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
At least i am not here for making money by posting.
- Frankly I could care less whether you are or not.

Obviously as far as I'm concerned your claims that you are not are probably about as believable as my saying I am not to you.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
Thats the only issue, if you had the money to buy original disc you wouldent bother with copy protection, and dont give that bullshit about backing up your own disc's and shit, cause that is at least hilarious.
- Yeah well if you honestly don't know about or can't see the problems DRM can & does cause legitimate users then that's you problem.

Obviously if you also wish to be a corporate b!tch and suck up whatever 'piracy' sh!t they want to spew out at you that's also your affair.
I side with the sharers, myself.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
....and what are you?Robben hood? and you care about people so much?
- WTF are you on about?

I'm a consumer that wants to see the most consumer-friendly format win.

If you can't see how Blu-ray excludes any kind of inclusive compatibility with the vast number of existing SD DVD owners then that's your problem.
HD DVD does not.

Anyone who ever took a movie round to a friend's house or a family member's house knows how useful & beneficial this will be.

Only HD DVD through the Twin disc (and to a lesser extent the combo) allows the change to high def to happen with the minimum alienation.

If you honestly don't get that then I suggest you take off the blinkers & wake up a little.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
Many other companies have done much worst things than a copy protection, i havent seen you posting about anything else.
- Er, wrong.
Actually I regularly post about things other than DRM.
The various court battles going on & sharing in general are other topics I often post about.
Usually there's little debate about what is happening but you'll see my comments about the EU story that is recent here, for instance.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
I really do starting to believe that you are an HD-DVD paid supporter.
- Well that probably says more about you than me then.

You're wrong btw.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Jan 2008 @ 14:16

4627.1.2008 16:02
ken9771
Inactive

Response to ChiefBrdy (Junior Member)

This thread is currently going in a different direction; I don't want to interfer with that, however at least I'd like to comment on the following statement that you made. One of the quotes was made by
nobrainer (Junior Member), and I was agreeing with it.

Reference your statement:

Quote:
It is 'stupid' to make such a broad generalization. Evidently you missed the memo about the National Geographic channel, The History Channel, The Bloomberg channel, The Learning Channel and a litany of others.

I use to have a 10 ft C-Band sat dish before the days of
the small dishes (DDS). Back then I use to purchase my programming most of the time at a reduced price based on a yearly prepaid subscription. There were probally about a dozen different companies offering program subs; the one I purchased from most of the time,
would allow me to pick as little as 5 individual channels, each at a very low price. Reason I had this choice was most likely because of the competition.

The consumer,,,,
"mainly" controls what is sold through his choice of what to purchase and secondly competition also helps bring down the prices. Everyone know this! I remember back then the TLC was one of the many free channels that I was able to watch via C-Band. For the channels that you mentioned I would be willing to pay 30 to 40 bucks a month, but only if there were no interruptions, no commericals on the channels that I am paying for. Local PBS sometimes has good programming however regardless of what they say, they also have comericals,
and they cannot seem to go for more than three days without stoping and asking for donations for another five days in a row.

Anyway, now I have found that I can learn much more via the internet. While I have posted a few comments the past couple days,
at the same time I have spent much more time exploreing and searching many other topics, especially info related to a likely connection of the sun's solar cycles modulated by the changeing
solar system's center of gravity.

Lastly,,,
"Competition"
I guess same applies in reference to this "war",
to the victor go the spoils and he then can demand more,
listen to the consumers less, and they in the end lose,
maybey lose even more than if both formats survived throughout
the life cycle of this level of technoloy.


Time for me to sit in the sidelines once again;
come back and visit this site once and a while.

4727.1.2008 20:14

Quote:
and if I may say that's the kind of disingenuous & spurious 'argument' I'd expect from a project hydra paid shill.
Quote:
Obviously if you also wish to be a corporate b!tch and suck up whatever 'piracy' sh!t they want to spew out at you that's also your affair.

hughjars, I gave you a benefit very few folks get from me yet I see stuff like this posted. Incidents like this where my good advice is ignored is why I rarely give it anymore. Calling someone a paid shill and corporate b!tch falls solidly in "personal comment" territory. You got two weeks to think about what I'm gonna say right now AND THIS GOES FOR EVERYONE- I only give two, maybe three suspensions before its not worth my time and I go for something permanent. You're arguing about silly formats people, get real!



My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

4827.1.2008 22:21

Quote:
Response to ChiefBrdy (Junior Member)

This thread is currently going in a different direction; I don't want to interfer with that, however at least I'd like to comment on the following statement that you made. One of the quotes was made by
nobrainer (Junior Member), and I was agreeing with it.

Reference your statement:

Quote:
It is 'stupid' to make such a broad generalization. Evidently you missed the memo about the National Geographic channel, The History Channel, The Bloomberg channel, The Learning Channel and a litany of others.

I use to have a 10 ft C-Band sat dish before the days of
the small dishes (DDS). Back then I use to purchase my programming most of the time at a reduced price based on a yearly prepaid subscription. There were probally about a dozen different companies offering program subs; the one I purchased from most of the time,
would allow me to pick as little as 5 individual channels, each at a very low price. Reason I had this choice was most likely because of the competition.

The consumer,,,,
"mainly" controls what is sold through his choice of what to purchase and secondly competition also helps bring down the prices. Everyone know this! I remember back then the TLC was one of the many free channels that I was able to watch via C-Band. For the channels that you mentioned I would be willing to pay 30 to 40 bucks a month, but only if there were no interruptions, no commericals on the channels that I am paying for. Local PBS sometimes has good programming however regardless of what they say, they also have comericals,
and they cannot seem to go for more than three days without stoping and asking for donations for another five days in a row.

Anyway, now I have found that I can learn much more via the internet. While I have posted a few comments the past couple days,
at the same time I have spent much more time exploreing and searching many other topics, especially info related to a likely connection of the sun's solar cycles modulated by the changeing
solar system's center of gravity.

Lastly,,,
"Competition"
I guess same applies in reference to this "war",
to the victor go the spoils and he then can demand more,
listen to the consumers less, and they in the end lose,
maybey lose even more than if both formats survived throughout
the life cycle of this level of technoloy.


Time for me to sit in the sidelines once again;
come back and visit this site once and a while.
Dude, I have no idea what you're talking about. Longest pile of dribble I've seen in a long time.

4927.1.2008 23:47
ken9771
Inactive

ChiefBrdy

Your right, sorry about that.

5028.1.2008 7:45

Good on you Nephilim ..
I'd really love to see what people like Hughjars are going to say next year when HD-DVD will cease to exist.

This is the final nail in the coffin if you ask me.. it can only downhill from here for HD-DVD..



5128.1.2008 9:55

i feel bad for choosing bD :( poor toshiba

5228.1.2008 11:07

It's sad to see Hughjars go from a blatant HD-DVD fanboy to a troll in such a short time. It's like watching a snowman melt under the warm Blu rays of spring.

5328.1.2008 15:21
magodeoz
Inactive

Sony is giving away free movies. not just one but like 3 or 5 depending on what you buy. I think that was very smart on their part. Toshiba has to set up a similar program, even if they loose money until they get a head start. Dropping the price on the players has shown not to be enough.

They also should have come with a catchier name like sony did. Blu-ray, its just two sylabels, so much simpler to pronounce, memorize and it even has a rign to it. I've met people that have no idea what blu-ray is yet they talk about it like its the most awesomest thing. Its called name recognition.

5428.1.2008 20:10

quote
They also should have come with a catchier name like sony did. Blu-ray, its just two sylabels.

that is so right, I know it doesnt make a great deal of differance as far as it's demise (hd-dvd), its just so much harder to pronounce.

5529.1.2008 1:12

This will NOT turn into a hughjars bashing party just because he is suspended.

DieMPAA,

You just got two weeks for that crass post of yours.





My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

5629.1.2008 7:51

Here are the new hardware numbers from NPD for the week ending January 19, 2008. Remember Toshiba slashed prices on all its players on January 13 so the numbers reflect one week of the sale. Remember also that the PS3 and 360 addon are not included in these numbers. These numbers include online retailers like amazon.

HD DVD - 8,639 units - 34.37%
BluRay - 16,496 units - 65.63%




http://www.digitalbits.com/#mytwocents

Quote:
So it would certainly appear that Toshiba's price cutting has at least contributed to a modest rebound in the number of HD-DVD units moved, though sources are telling us that Blu-ray earned approximately 83% of all the actual dollars spent on high-def players for the week. Here are those totals...

Blu-ray Disc - $6,033,540
HD-DVD - $1,182,248

Again, that would seem to reflect the fact that Toshiba's prices had been heavily discounted. The dollar volume percentage is key, because that's where retailers are going to see profits. As such, they're obviously making more money on each Blu-ray player sold than each HD-DVD player sold right now.

FYI, we'd like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that two weeks of data points does not equal a trend, just a very small line. We're sure that all parties involved (including the NPD Group) will make their own comments shortly.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Jan 2008 @ 8:05

5719.2.2008 7:26

In these articles we are saeeing the demize of a good format that put up a great figt but i have to say the killer blow was when Warner chose sides and well the demise and end of HD DVD is for told here and in this month we has said R.I.P HDVD and congrats to blu-ray.

5819.2.2008 16:16
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by juankerr:
Here are the new hardware numbers from NPD for the week ending January 19, 2008.
- I wonder if any members of the Blu-ray fanclub have the nads to do a week by week or month by month pie chart of Blu-ray v SD DVD.

I doubt it, with well under 1% of the market the miniscule blue sliver would be almost invisible. :P

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