AfterDawn: Tech news

Best Buy publicly snuffs HD-DVD

Written by Dave Horvath @ 12 Feb 2008 12:43 User comments (61)

Best Buy publicly snuffs HD-DVD The largest electronics chain the U.S. has announced that it will begin focusing its recommendations to customers toward Sony's Blu-ray technology, according to an article by Reuters.
"Because we believe that Blu-ray is fast emerging as that single format, we have decided to focus on Blu-ray products," Brian Dunn, Best Buy's president and chief operating officer, said in a statement Monday.

It's not an exclusive arrangement since Best Buy says it will still continue to offer HD DVD. But having Best Buy's valuable endorsement in the form of Sunday circulars, front-and-center store kiosks, and staff recommendation seems to be the icing on the cake for a Blu-ray victory in the format war, and potentially the death rattle for HD DVD.

The HD DVD Promotional Group responded with a statement "We have long held the belief that HD DVD is the best format for consumers based on quality and value, and with more than 1 million HD DVD players on the market, it's unfortunate to see Netflix make the decision to only stock Blu-ray titles going forward. While the Best Buy announcement says they will recommend Blu-ray, at least they will continue to carry HD DVD and offer consumers a choice at retail."

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61 user comments

112.2.2008 13:28
hughjars
Inactive

Since when did Best Buy not favour Blu-ray anyways?

....and btw they are not dropping HD DVD entirely; from your link -

Quote:
Best Buy will prominently feature Blu-ray hardware and software beginning in March, but will also carry an assortment of HD DVD products for customers who want those, Best Buy said.
How arrogant are these people, hmmmmm?

The consumer neeeds a store telling them how to spend their money and on what products now eh?

Not quite what anyone sane would call 'freedom of choice' and 'free & fair competition', is it?

212.2.2008 13:33

I just don't know how HD DVD can keep up the fight.

First, the #1 online rental service drops you.

Then a few hours later the #1 electronics retailer in the US makes it official company policy to support BluRay.

You can say the BB has been favoring BluRay all along but there was no announcement of official company policy - until now. You can expect HD DVD hardware and software to become less and less prominent at their stores and become relegated to "request-only" status.

You can bring up theories about payoffs and incentives all you can but remember this is business. Bottom line is the BDA played the game better than the HD DVD group. The BluRay side just made the right moves at the right time and HD DVD was simply outplayed.

Yesterday was a really bad day for HD DVD and their weak response to the events compounds their problem:

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9869591..._______________

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 13:37

312.2.2008 13:37

That does it !! I'm buying blue Ray. I no longer need to decide.

412.2.2008 13:40
RIPHDDVD
Inactive

Paging Dr. Kevorkian. You're wanted now.

512.2.2008 13:54

Its all comes down to marketing & BDA did a better job.Toshiba sat on there hands for months & didn't do anything to off set any motivation BDA start having in January 07.If you go into BB & CC your would see at lease 3 LCD hooked up to BD players.HD-DVD player would be in the back hooked up to one TV.WHY ? because BDA knew they had to market there product aggressively & they did.Blockbuster's stores are getting Sony - 46" 1080p Flat-Panel LCD HDTV with a PS3 hooked up as a BD player on display for the next few months my BB just got there display last week.Yet another aggressive move for BDA but you don't see Toshiba doing this they are hoping that price point win sells but don't want to do any aggressive marketing.


Its all Toshiba fault they loss this format war they had a very strong lead in 06 but they forgot that if you have a low price point you still got to market your product.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 13:55

612.2.2008 14:03

Proud owner of Ps3 !!! Blu-ray All the Way!!

HD-Players are flooding Fleabay.....

I can see Universal, Paramount, DreamWorks Animation JUMPING SHIP SOON....

712.2.2008 14:22

Quote:

The consumer neeeds a store telling them how to spend their money and on what products now eh?

Not quite what anyone sane would call 'freedom of choice' and 'free & fair competition', is it?
Welcome to sales. Their objective is to sale their store's goods, so obviously they'd be attempting to persuade you to buy whichever product they benifit most from. The real question is, why did they pick Blu-Ray? I'd like to say because they want to end all confusion for the good of the consumer but I wouldn't be supprised if there was some underhandedness going on here.

Also, most people go into a store like Best Buy in search of something specific. I mean, who goes into Best Buy and browses? Even more so, who is stupid enough to get the store's opinion on a potential purchase? Give people some credit.

812.2.2008 14:38

Quote:
Since when did Best Buy not favour Blu-ray anyways?
True, as mentioned in previous articles Best (or really Worst in my opinion, I have always hated Best Buy) Buy has always put Blu-Ray out for display without any (or very small) notice to HD DVD. Heck, I went searching for HD DVD movies at BB the other day and at both best buy's in my area they had a nice big tag showing where Blu movies were and even though HD DVD's were right next to the Blu-Ray there wasn't anyway to notice unless you walked down the isle.

I have seen a few pages in the ads dedicated to HD DVD but its only for the few BOGOs and sales on the players. Blu-Ray has had the front cover several times if I remember right, with no notice on the front for HD.

I wonder if Sony had a hand in this or if it was just employee bias? I would bet my money on both.

Peace

912.2.2008 14:58
varnull
Inactive

DRM-Buy.. another reason not to buy their low cost poor quality crap.

1012.2.2008 15:09
goodswipe
Inactive

LOL @ that varnull, so true. Also I agree with Pop, Best Buy needs to change their name to Worst Buy. Only time you will find anything at a "best buy" is if you are purchasing something that comes bundled with some free stuff, otherwise that place is way over priced.

1112.2.2008 15:28

It's sad to see people trashing Best Buy like this.

They're just the number one electronics retailer in the US and I would venture to say the number one contributor to HD DVD's numbers in both Neilsen software and NPD hardware data.

I bought 2 HD DVD players from Best Buy (at very good prices) not to mention several HD DVD discs which were on BOGO or B2G1. Next to amazon Best Buy has run the most special offers for HD DVD movies. So much so that the average price I've had to pay for an HD DVD disc there is a measly $15.

One of the senior members here on AD (diabolos) works at Best Buy and I'd like to hear his take on this. BTW - he's a staunch supporter of HD DVD.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 15:29

1212.2.2008 15:30
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by goodswipe:
Only time you will find anything at a "best buy" is if you are purchasing something that comes bundled with some free stuff, otherwise that place is way over priced.
- Which is so true of so many B&M stores.

That is also why anyone trying to make huge deals out of retail stats that ignore the enormous & rapidly growing on-line trade - as we have just seen with those leaked NPD numbers - and especially a retail giant like Amazon, are so absurd.

1312.2.2008 15:52

Having worked at Best Buy in the past Sony OWNS end cap space throughout the store. You will ALWAYS see a top notch Sony HDTV display on an endcap in the home theater section, and this is what their president is reinforcing. The end cap will be all Sony products, including the HDTV< BD player, movies, accessories, etc.

Not to make this a bash post, but Sony also has an endcap in the digital camera section, typically featuring a camcorder and also a setup for PS3, all of which is paid for by Sony for advertisement.

Intel also pays for the same privileged shelf space in the PC section, which showcases Centrino platform laptops, or media center PC platforms, and may be bundled with Gateway, HP, etc.

Before someone questions this, ask someone that works at Best Buy in the merchandise department, why they cannot deviate the floor plan (ie. put other product in a "Sony" endcap) when that space is empty, etc.

Bottom line, Sony used their advertising muscle and the strategy looks to have paid off.

1412.2.2008 16:07
goodswipe
Inactive

Quote:
Next to amazon Best Buy has run the most special offers for HD DVD movies.
Errr, I can go into my local Frys electronics and pick up about 80 percent of their HD DVD's at prices anywhere from 15 to 19 dollars. Best Buy, if it's not a BOGO deal, would cost you around 24 dollars for the same movies. Even Frys new releases are 3 to 5 dollars cheaper then Best Buy. They don't carry a large selection of a/v equipment such as toslink or HDMI cables and the ones that they do have are all those absurdly high priced Monster cables. If Best Buy wants to have their customers in "the know", they should start by getting rid of those high priced a/v cables and carry a bigger selection of cheaper cables that will give you the same result. To me, that's not leaving the customer in "the know".

1512.2.2008 16:16

I don't have Fry's within a hundred mile radius of me - sorry.

Best Buy or CC is still the only viable option for me.

1612.2.2008 16:22
goodswipe
Inactive

Have you been into CC lately? I went in there the other night and the HD DVD selection was nowhere to be found. Either it's flying off the shelves or they are phasing it out. Is yours like that?

1712.2.2008 16:24

Quote:
How arrogant are these people, hmmmmm?

The consumer neeeds a store telling them how to spend their money and on what products now eh?

Not quite what anyone sane would call 'freedom of choice' and 'free & fair competition', is it?
It says "recommend" Blue-ray not "force you to buy" Blue-ray. I figure your intelligent enough to know this but most consumers have no idea how or what to buy when it comes to electronics and need the store to guide them. You, me and all the other posters here with a clue what they are talking about are the minority in all this.

....and how is this any different from what you do here on Afterdawn every day? You try your hardest to shove HD-DVD down everybody's throat with every post you make. Let’s not be a hypocrite and take your loss like a man.

1812.2.2008 16:26
camaro17
Inactive

Originally posted by varnull:
DRM-Buy.. another reason not to buy their low cost poor quality crap.

ok if they are so poor quality then why does everyone complain about how hard and expensive it is to make them huh?


Peace

1912.2.2008 16:42

Originally posted by SProdigy:
Having worked at Best Buy in the past Sony OWNS end cap space throughout the store. You will ALWAYS see a top notch Sony HDTV display on an endcap in the home theater section, and this is what their president is reinforcing. The end cap will be all Sony products, including the HDTV< BD player, movies, accessories, etc.

Not to make this a bash post, but Sony also has an endcap in the digital camera section, typically featuring a camcorder and also a setup for PS3, all of which is paid for by Sony for advertisement.

Intel also pays for the same privileged shelf space in the PC section, which showcases Centrino platform laptops, or media center PC platforms, and may be bundled with Gateway, HP, etc.

Before someone questions this, ask someone that works at Best Buy in the merchandise department, why they cannot deviate the floor plan (ie. put other product in a "Sony" endcap) when that space is empty, etc.

Bottom line, Sony used their advertising muscle and the strategy looks to have paid off.
Your right i work at BB part-time for 4 years.Sony does pay for those end cap spaces but Toshiba has the same right its called marketing.

2012.2.2008 17:08
vinny13
Inactive

I don't know... Best Buy is over-priced but FutureShop (Canadian, owned by BestBuy) has some pretty good deals here and there... I bough a 1TB EXT HDD for $170 and a Sharp 42D64U TV for $1300 (cheapest I could find,save something like $500 off of the org. price and $900 off of BB's org. price).

2112.2.2008 17:35
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by djeazyg:
....and how is this any different from what you do here on Afterdawn every day?
- Er, at what stage am I looking to take any amount of money (nevermind large amounts) off of anyone in exchange for the goods I choose to stock and am 'advising' them to buy, hmmmm?

Just a bit of a massive & glaring difference, I'd say.

Originally posted by djeazyg:
You try your hardest to shove HD-DVD down everybody's throat with every post you make.
- No, it's called contibuting to an open & free discussion board with my POV.

No-one forces you to read it or accept it or do anything with it that you don't want to.

Originally posted by djeazyg:
Let’s not be a hypocrite and take your loss like a man.
- Maybe this means something in your own head?

2212.2.2008 17:55

although it's probably simply because it's better for their bottom line, maybe best buy is accidentally doing the right thing. they leave hd-dvd on the shelf, but let consumers know many in the tech community consider it a dying format. i'm sure that's not how it's working out, but it sounds good in theory.

also with the best buy bashing...they seem to have better deals than circuit city, and i'm 98% certain those two are the only truly national big box electronics retailers. there aren't any other options where i'm at.

2312.2.2008 18:16

I have to laugh at all the Blu-ray bashers on here bitching about huge incentive deals and massive pay offs to stores and film companies etc to get them to promote their stuff when they have absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

Even if it was true then you should be bashing Toshiba & Universal etc over the head for not doing the same thing and if the reason they didn't is because they don't have the same power/money then stupid fools them for going up against Sony in the first place !

As for denying consumers the freedom of choice etc - consumers have had the freedom of choice for over a year now - and they chose blu ray in every continent - even in the USA but look at Japan/Asia and Europe and HD-DVD barely exists !

From what I can see, far from denying consumers choice - they have been very closely analising consumer choice - the consumer has chosen and they have listened - you can't blame them for not continuing to back a format which is obviously destined to be eliminated from the market place pretty soon for all essential purposes. Why should they stock HD-DVD when the vast majority of their customers are asking for blu ray ?

If they had enough demand for HD-DVD then of course they wouldn't drop it - they are a business after your money - if Netflix and Best Buy have gone or are heading to Blu Ray exclusivity then it's for a damn good reason - their business analists have worked out they can make money that way and that supporting HD-DVD will drag them down.

Remember there is a recession on the horizon, nobody wants to continue this insanity of 2 HD format discs especially when neither one of them is even remotely close to universal popularity over the DVD yet.

2412.2.2008 18:36
hughjars
Inactive

Consumers have not chosen Blu-ray over HD DVD across the world.

The PS3 buyers have bought some Blu-ray movies.

There's a big difference.

The sad things about all of this is that we can see from the stunningly poor (and falling) high def movie sales that Blu-ray (assuming it wins this - which is a huge if at this point still) can only ever be a niche product.

Their replication limitations alone mean that they are bound to be a niche product.

HD DVD could escape the niche as it shares replication facilities with SD DVD and Twin discs (and to a lesser degree combo discs) mean the switch to high def can be made with no-one getting hurt or left behind.
Blu-ray can never do that.

2512.2.2008 18:37
vinny13
Inactive

Oh ya the freedom of choice thing is kinda retarded... They don't take away the customer's freedom of choice at all... They just help a newcomer arrive at a decision of which player to get.

A local newsgroup interviewed some people that worked in that department at BB and they said that if you didn't want to spend too much then get the HD-DVD as it is cheaper but if you have the extra money then they said that you should probably buy a Blu-Ray player or even a PS3 as it has a much larger selection and is currently winning this war...

I don't find that bias at all.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 18:37

2612.2.2008 19:43

Funny cause every BB I have been to here in Arizona has sold out of almost all of its HDDVD players. I think Fry's is a hell of a lot better than BB anyways as it offers better deals on almost everything in the store. Something funny I saw at Fry's the other day was an HDDVD player running on a Sony TV. I laughed and walked away. To bad the normal consumer doesn't know the truth about Blu Ray and why studios are jumping ship but if common knowledge cant tell the average joe that they are about to line these studios pockets while not having the freedom to do whatever you want with a disc that you payed for then well...thats all your fault. Blu Ray can win the format war all day yet it'll be funny when some of you BRD supporters come whining on afterdawn for a way to circumvent the copyright protections of the disc just because you wanna back it up or what ever the hell you want to do with it and cant. When this happens dont come here cryin or blaming Sony blah blah blah...blame yourselves. It's BS like this why people are just giving away their freedoms without knowing it due to lack of knowledge or pure ignorance. Anyone who wants to call me a fanboy after this post can get over it cause I'm definitely not that. I'm just into choice without all the BS and I'm definitely all for the underdog. Go ahead waste money to see these companies become even more wealthier. When they finally have pockets deeper than all of your pants combined you'll be sued quicker than you purchased the BD disc for trying to do whatever you want with it. Funny what Sony can do with your freedom and your own money.

2712.2.2008 21:46
jagstilv
Inactive

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Funny cause every BB I have been to here in Arizona has sold out of almost all of its HDDVD players. I think Fry's is a hell of a lot better than BB anyways as it offers better deals on almost everything in the store. Something funny I saw at Fry's the other day was an HDDVD player running on a Sony TV. I laughed and walked away. To bad the normal consumer doesn't know the truth about Blu Ray and why studios are jumping ship but if common knowledge cant tell the average joe that they are about to line these studios pockets while not having the freedom to do whatever you want with a disc that you payed for then well...thats all your fault. Blu Ray can win the format war all day yet it'll be funny when some of you BRD supporters come whining on afterdawn for a way to circumvent the copyright protections of the disc just because you wanna back it up or what ever the hell you want to do with it and cant. When this happens dont come here cryin or blaming Sony blah blah blah...blame yourselves. It's BS like this why people are just giving away their freedoms without knowing it due to lack of knowledge or pure ignorance. Anyone who wants to call me a fanboy after this post can get over it cause I'm definitely not that. I'm just into choice without all the BS and I'm definitely all for the underdog. Go ahead waste money to see these companies become even more wealthier. When they finally have pockets deeper than all of your pants combined you'll be sued quicker than you purchased the BD disc for trying to do whatever you want with it. Funny what Sony can do with your freedom and your own money.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't HD-DVD have copy protection? I think that it features a version of AACS - does that grant you the freedom that you speak of? Just curious if you know what you're talking about or are you jumping on the anti-BD bandwagon?

2812.2.2008 21:50
_H06_
Inactive

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Funny cause every BB I have been to here in Arizona has sold out of almost all of its HDDVD players. I think Fry's is a hell of a lot better than BB anyways as it offers better deals on almost everything in the store. Something funny I saw at Fry's the other day was an HDDVD player running on a Sony TV. I laughed and walked away. To bad the normal consumer doesn't know the truth about Blu Ray and why studios are jumping ship but if common knowledge cant tell the average joe that they are about to line these studios pockets while not having the freedom to do whatever you want with a disc that you payed for then well...thats all your fault. Blu Ray can win the format war all day yet it'll be funny when some of you BRD supporters come whining on afterdawn for a way to circumvent the copyright protections of the disc just because you wanna back it up or what ever the hell you want to do with it and cant. When this happens dont come here cryin or blaming Sony blah blah blah...blame yourselves. It's BS like this why people are just giving away their freedoms without knowing it due to lack of knowledge or pure ignorance. Anyone who wants to call me a fanboy after this post can get over it cause I'm definitely not that. I'm just into choice without all the BS and I'm definitely all for the underdog. Go ahead waste money to see these companies become even more wealthier. When they finally have pockets deeper than all of your pants combined you'll be sued quicker than you purchased the BD disc for trying to do whatever you want with it. Funny what Sony can do with your freedom and your own money.
Listen fanboy, you know why HD-DVD's have been selling out? Because there selling for about $150 and the average person doesnt know or cares that Blu-Rays winning the war. So if i was an average person and i saw a 150 player over a 300 player i would of course i would choose the 150. But since i know Blu-Rays going to win the war, i wouldnt choose HD-DVD

2912.2.2008 23:24

While I wont sit here and argue with ignorance I will state to you fanboys as you are, something that is fact of reason for defection to the Blu ray camp. Yes HD DVD does have copyright protection which is AACS etc. but how many times has AACS been hacked and cracked by tech people like me and others who really and I quote really work hard on cracking protections like these in order to create methods of backing up ones personal collection. HD DVD has copyright protection like any other disc because in order to sell or become insurance for movie producers it has to have copyright protection to prevent piracy and gain a profit. Is that statement simple enough for you fanboys. Now while there currently is reverse engineering going on for the and I quote a need to back up your BD movie collection, the catch to insure movie producers to make a profit from sales is the use of Durabis or Scratch Guard. This not only protects the data as it is written closer to the surface of the disc but it also serves the so called purpose of not needing to back up your BD collection. There was a flaw to this back in 2007 where the Durabis coating actually started to rot and retailers began replacing the BD discs to consumers. Later on the Blu Ray camp began quality control on the product including free replacement discs and we all know that isn't a bad thing at all. Now fanboy wouldn't you defect if you were assured some type of financial security for your works. Anyways as you have heard Microsoft and Toshiba are playing catch up in sales of players and movies in which I do commend them for doing such a hell of a job in so little time. As it is stated that any camp backing HD DVD will run out of catalog titles to release vs. BD backed titles, I'd say that cutting cost and putting all of your cards on the table for consumers at a now reasonable price will somehow pay off. For those of us fortunate enough to own the dual format players at the $700 and $800 dollar price range get the best of both worlds so it I guess it doesn't matter now does it. Now back to what most people of the forums do as we all did with standard dvd decryption back when this site was hot and on fire. We all asked for help in ways to back up dvd discs. Don't deny that it's not true because its all within the forum archives and such with current DVD titles now. When we switch to the BD format and you have a hard time trying to back up your movie...where do you think you will be asking for help at? Until college tech geeks like me and including a whole lot of others around the world find a way to get past the BD+ and BDROM Mark which proves to be extremely difficult as we speak, a lot of you will be SOL. We will all be back to the start of things where we will be backing up standard dvds or downloading movies again. Talk about selling your soul huh! I already concluded that BD won the physical format war and we all know how long thats gonna last. So while guys like you are here flaming everyone else, who cares about the format war. Welcome to the world of home media centers where media is stored on hard drives with the net already connected to it. So lets not forget about those good ole HD downloads that are out there and guess what....those dls are only at about 1 to about 3gbs of space. So whether a lot of people are way ahead of you including studios that back HDDVD with there already touted HD download to own service (Paramount and Microsoft even if just the Live rental dl service)... I guess it kind of takes away from the little consumer wars. So there goes your fairy tale. Anyways one of us will crack it soon. A lot of us help out and save each other behinds on here and really I know I don't mind. Just remember who brought it to your attention. I'm just glad for the fact that I got your attention. Thank You!

3013.2.2008 2:27

Some more bad news for HD-DVD. I should have waited before I purchased a HD-DVD.

3113.2.2008 3:42

HD DVD is going away and a new standard is taking a foothold. Whether you accept it or not, by this time next year, "HD DVD" will be a footnote alongside Betamax and Circuit City's DIVX. Blu-ray is just a standard and we should welcome a single standard (for as long as it lasts). Don't worry, the tech and content companies will find ways to milk us for it for now and have another one in the wings. At least we won't be scrambling for one in 2008-2009. If you're squeamish, stick with DvD and upscaling.

3213.2.2008 4:49

Best buy is not the best buy i will go anywhere else to avoid them! i go 1x a year cause someone keeps getting me a damn gift card for there every xmas! Trey are overprices & they limit your selection to the expensive shit! yeha go try to find a HDMI cable for under $50! most of theres are $100 or more i went & got mine for $15 (p.s. they are the same )

3313.2.2008 7:58

Don't you LOVE how people say they HATE a store, then mention they keep shopping there anyway??? :-) <cough>HYPOCRITE!<cough>

There's nothing odd about manufacturers paying for certain shelf space in retailers' stores...ALL stores do it and they would only be doing a bad thing if they were doing something to keep competitors from doing the same. Like others, Best Buy is doing consumers a favor by promoting Blu-Ray over HD-DVD to stop a prolonged format war...Blu-Ray was widely considered the better technology all along, but it was a lot more pricey to implement, so some companies decided to do what was cheaper and supported HD-DVD instead. Very simple w/ absolutely NO ulterior motives anywhere.

3413.2.2008 8:24

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:
There's nothing odd about manufacturers paying for certain shelf space in retailers' stores...ALL stores do it and they would only be doing a bad thing if they were doing something to keep competitors from doing the same. Like others, Best Buy is doing consumers a favor by promoting Blu-Ray over HD-DVD to stop a prolonged format war...
What I was trying to say is Best Buy really wasn't promoting Blu-Ray in the first place: Sony was (from the inside.) The visual appearance is that Best Buy was supporting them all along, though it's only "official" now with this announcement.

3513.2.2008 10:27
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by DieMPAA:
HD DVD is going away and a new standard is taking a foothold.
- Well thankfully there's really no real sign of that, no matter how much the PS3 gang want to convince themselves of it.

HD DVD hardware is still selling very strongly on Amazon around the western world (if you check the USA, UK & German stats) & Play.com shows similar strong sales in the UK too.

.....and that 'fire-sale' BS is complete lie.
Amazon have been seen to go out of stock and then restock
(with the HD A3 more than once).

Blu-ray continues to revolve around the PS3 game console....and lately, as NPD recently said, they have been giving away dead profile 1.0 players as fast as they can )

Neither Universal nor Paramount
(despite months of the Blu-ray fanclub's claims that they are 'out of contract' or have 'escape clauses')
have done anything other than continue to back HD DVD exclusively and recently offer good discounts on HD DVD movies.

But nevertheless the truth is that as a whole high def movie sales have dropped by almost 50% since the start of the year.

There is no genuine sign of Blu-ray taking over anything.
How could it?
Their limited replication facilities practiclly guarantee it can only ever be a nich product
(cos the existing SD DVD productyion isn't going away anywhere) and demand isn't encouraging anyone to provide much more capacity.

In fact in the highly unlikely event of Blu-ray actually winning anything the most likely conclusion would be a small niche market over-charged at will revolving around a game console.

Even at the official launch of their new profile 2.0 player (the DMP BD50) Panasonic refused to give a price.
How weird is that!?

I expect people are in for a shock when they see how much they expect people to pay for those 'premium features'.

But it won't matter.
The general public simply will never pay $200, $300 & $400+ for their 'new DVD player'.
Sub $200 yes some will but the mass-market really isn't interested until we see sub $100
(sadly for the UK prices make a straight £1 = $1 conversion, they don't call us 'treasure island/rip-off Britain' for nothing).
HD DVD has already proved this (as SD DVD did long before it).

If HD DVD does go under then the rest of the market will stick with upscaled SD DVD & as HD TV numbers explode move on to HD TV services with a DVR
( = HD on your HD TV all the time......which sure as hell beats an occasional expensive Blu-ray disc in an overpriced player of God knows what spec & lifespan) & downloading.

3613.2.2008 10:45

The real problem about HD DVD was that microsoft didnt include an HD DVD player internal . I mean if your a gamer you wont buy an addon simply because you dont like movies but if it was internal , there is a chance that you might buy an HD DVD titles. Alltough i like HD DVD better and even owns some titles i dont see how they can make it in 2009. Its nearly impossible. If Warner stayed than it would have been different and lots of people would be happy

3713.2.2008 10:59
OhCrap
Inactive

@Sazaziel

Slysoft has already claimed to have cracked Blu-Ray and HDDVD months ago. People have been ripping their disks to their hard drives for months now. So what is your point? Why do we need "tech geeks" like you when we can just invest in a program like that? From the way you talk you've single-handedly conqured the universe.

3813.2.2008 11:27
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by OhCrap:
Slysoft has already claimed to have cracked Blu-Ray and HDDVD months ago.
- Only the AACS HD DVD & Blu-ray movies.

Non-BD+ discs.

There has not been a single one of the (growing number of) BD+ movies
'cracked'.

Originally posted by OhCrap:
People have been ripping their disks to their hard drives for months now.
- That's not the same as ripping & copying a disc
(and I'm sure you know that perfectly well).

You can put the movie on your HDD and watch it from there, you can't copy it and you need the original disc to do that.

Are you trying to misinform people deliberately with these tales or what?

Originally posted by OhCrap:
So what is your point?
- The point is what it always was.

You cannot rip & copy Blu-ray BD+ discs.

Originally posted by OhCrap:
Why do we need "tech geeks" like you when we can just invest in a program like that?
- Er that program you think works a certain way doesn't.

Slysoft have been claiming for months that they think they will be able to crack BD+ but so far have actually produced nothing.

Then there's the whole issue of what happens when they change it and revamp the BD+ (which it is specifically designed for).

There can be no blind confidence that BD+ can be cracked.

(....and yes there are numerous examples of so-called security systems that have remained uncracked.
Sky TV's digital service encryption being a prime example, 7 years and counting despite a 'market' of many millions who'd love to see their stuff for a fraction of their exorbitant charges.....as so many did when it was the old analogue service)

Originally posted by OhCrap:
From the way you talk you've single-handedly conqured the universe.
- I managed to make out his meaning (that BD+ Blu-ray discs cannot be ripped & copied) perfectly well.

What happened to you?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Feb 2008 @ 11:29

3913.2.2008 12:38

I'm seeing folks starting to act like children towards each other. The next person to say something even remotely derogatory or disrespectful to someone else will get the hammer dropped on them. I have NO sense of humor in these threads so be warned!




My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

4013.2.2008 12:46
varnull
Inactive

ooo.. PMT there Neph?

I think this whole disk format nonsense has been done to death.. Who cares anyway? This market will remain tiny like audio dvd has, because very few can see any gain for themselves in the current situation. Not enough HD content from broadcasters means minimal sales of HD equipment to the select few..

The audio system has makes a valid comparison.. While a few people went to extremes with high end equipment (an expensive hobby if you like) the rest of the populace were happy with a £50 grinder.

4113.2.2008 13:11

Wow, looks like MSNBC says its over. Wonder why Universal and Paramont does not anounce " and on HD-DVD " on their movie trailers any more?

4213.2.2008 14:29

Originally posted by hughjars:
If HD DVD does go under then the rest of the market will stick with upscaled SD DVD & as HD TV numbers explode move on to HD TV services with a DVR
( = HD on your HD TV all the time......which sure as hell beats an occasional expensive Blu-ray disc in an overpriced player of God knows what spec & lifespan) & downloading.
Precisely Hugh... I enjoyed watching "We Own The Night" upscaled in 1080i last night. Anything else I want to watch, I'll record it on my HD DVR (Punisher and Batman Begins are excellent "reruns" that come to mind this week.)

4313.2.2008 16:04

I'm sure this is pointless to bring up on a site like AD, but seriously, besides Home entertainment systems-o-philes, how many people are clammering to start a brand new collection of Movies.


I really wanted to see HD DVD get strong because I FREAKIN' hate sony shoving overpriced crap down our throats (not always but in general), but it's a shame so many movie studio's made a decisions to solely back Blu ray. I personally think that sony paid for many of those decicsions, but whatever gets the job done, maybe I'll get one next year after we come out of this recession, and after they screw over a few more early semi early adopters.

4413.2.2008 16:19

I dont know about Blue ray vs HD DVD....they are overrated expensive, even now I still only buy DVD. To me it cost wayyy too much money because you have to buy the "special" player and the "TV" that supports the "Hi Def". what is the point if your not so damn rich and really cares about the definition? I find it that the DVD still works well, still GREAT quality. Even now I believe DVD sales are wayyy more than BD or HDD. I find it stupid, unless they sale their so call "hi def" to the same cost as the original DVD, there is no freaking point of buying them unless you are really geeked about hi def quality. I find it pointless right now to even purchase one of these things.

4513.2.2008 16:23

Originally posted by Hyasuma:
I dont know about Blue ray vs HD DVD....they are overrated expensive, even now I still only buy DVD. To me it cost wayyy too much money because you have to buy the "special" player and the "TV" that supports the "Hi Def". what is the point if your not so damn rich and really cares about the definition? I find it that the DVD still works well, still GREAT quality. Even now I believe DVD sales are wayyy more than BD or HDD. I find it stupid, unless they sale their so call "hi def" to the same cost as the original DVD, there is no freaking point of buying them unless you are really geeked about hi def quality. I find it pointless right now to even purchase one of these things.

Base on the fact that I have bought alot of Sony products, and they last me longer than ever I could ask for, their quality of their products are insanely LONG, I actually prefer buying Sony products as long as is not too expensive to purchase.

4613.2.2008 17:10

Toshiba set to release a Blu-Ray player


1080living.com has learned through sources in the distribution and retail business that the buzz is Toshiba already has a Blu-Ray player in the works ready for production for a September 08 release but now this has been pushed up to a July 08 release with recent events in the industry.

This would make sense as Toshiba is a major electronics giant and supporting Blu-Ray will only benefit the company in the long run. Toshiba is currently liquidating HD-DVD players for as little as $90.00 which many analyst consider to be under their cost but as demand dries up Toshiba is trying to cash in on last minute consumers that will be swayed by price alone.

One source cited 2 players are in the works with a price target of $250 and $350.00


Looks like Toshiba ready to lay there cards on the table if this is true.

http://www.n4g.com/industrynews/News-110548.aspx

4713.2.2008 17:13
goodswipe
Inactive

Yea, eatsushi pointed that out yesterday. Had to know this was comming. Does this mean they will drop support for any of the HD DVD models?

Update: Toshiba has just released FW 2.0 for the following models:

A3, D3, A30, and A35

The FW update has added 1080p/24 video capabilities to the A30 and A35. Ahh, that stupid playback error seems to have been fixed with this update as well. Anyone with a HD DVD player knows that I'm talking about.

Electronista

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Feb 2008 @ 17:22

4813.2.2008 17:15

Originally posted by Hyasuma:
I dont know about Blue ray vs HD DVD....they are overrated expensive, even now I still only buy DVD. To me it cost wayyy too much money because you have to buy the "special" player and the "TV" that supports the "Hi Def". what is the point if your not so damn rich and really cares about the definition? I find it that the DVD still works well, still GREAT quality. Even now I believe DVD sales are wayyy more than BD or HDD. I find it stupid, unless they sale their so call "hi def" to the same cost as the original DVD, there is no freaking point of buying them unless you are really geeked about hi def quality. I find it pointless right now to even purchase one of these things.

My feelings exactly. I bought an Oppo upconverter and my DVDs look better than ever. I'm in no rush to get either format. Especially until HD movie prices match regular DVD prices, which won't be for a long time!!!

4914.2.2008 10:35
hughjars
Inactive

Originally posted by NexGen76:
Toshiba set to release a Blu-Ray player
- Pure speculation & rumour

Anyone can do that.

Sony set to abandon Blu-ray

http://digg.com/gaming_news/PS3_without_...itch_the_format

I read it on the internet/in a newspaper so it must be true, eh?

LMAO.

Originally posted by goodswipe:
The FW update has added 1080p/24 video capabilities to the A30 and A35.
- That's weird, my HD A/EP 35 has always had excellent 1080p/24 playback
(I bought it in Nov 2007).
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Feb 2008 @ 10:36

5014.2.2008 11:09

1080p/24 has been enabled since the 1.3 firmware for the A30 and A35.

However, avs members are reporting problems with "jaggies" with the new 2.0 firmware when outputting 1080p/24. Some are even reverting back to the 1.3 firmware because of this problem.

My XA2 also had this problem with 24fps "jaggies" on the 2.8 firmware so I reverted back to version 2.7.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992822&page=4

post#109

5114.2.2008 11:21
goodswipe
Inactive

Originally posted by eatsushi:
1080p/24 has been enabled since the 1.3 firmware for the A30 and A35.

However, avs members are reporting problems with "jaggies" with the new 2.0 firmware when outputting 1080p/24. Some are even reverting back to the 1.3 firmware because of this problem.

My XA2 also had this problem with 24fps "jaggies" on the 2.8 firmware so I reverted back to version 2.7.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=992822&page=4

post#109

Hmm, interesting. I don't think I will be flashing mine then. I've always been a bit cautious when it comes to this sort of thing. I wonder how well they really test the FW before they release it?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Feb 2008 @ 11:24

5214.2.2008 14:32

Originally posted by goodswipe:
Hmm, interesting. I don't think I will be flashing mine then. I've always been a bit cautious when it comes to this sort of thing. I wonder how well they really test the FW before they release it?
If your HDTV doesn't support 1080p/24 then you shouldn't have any problem with the new firmware. You can set the output to 1080p/60 and you should be fine. Also the "jaggies" seem to be a problem only with AVC/MPEG4 encoded titles such as Transformers.

If you still need to revert back then there's a way to do it. However, reverting to older firmware is very tricky and requires you to do some HEX editing on the firmware ISO. Basically you change the HEX value on the firmware to trick the machine into thinking that the older firmware is actually newer than the installed one. There's a guide on avsforums on how to do this.

5314.2.2008 15:28
OhCrap
Inactive

@ Hugejars


Slysoft claims to have cracked BD+ back in Novemeber, where have you been? There are BD+ movies available on many bittorrent websites. And who wants to buy BD blank media now when it's still $10-$20 bucks a disc and the burners are still through the roof. In time when the prices are better it'll be a little more economical to do so. You're just upset because your team lost. Here is a link that might help you with your denial problems. Everywhere it says alcohol just subsitute the word HD-DVD.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info/a/aa981021.htm

5414.2.2008 16:55
vinny13
Inactive

Originally posted by OhCrap:
@ Hugejars


Slysoft claims to have cracked BD+ back in Novemeber, where have you been? There are BD+ movies available on many bittorrent websites. And who wants to buy BD blank media now when it's still $10-$20 bucks a disc and the burners are still through the roof. In time when the prices are better it'll be a little more economical to do so. You're just upset because your team lost. Here is a link that might help you with your denial problems. Everywhere it says alcohol just subsitute the word HD-DVD.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info/a/aa981021.htm


Lmao I think Step 3 is the toughest :P

5514.2.2008 16:57

Hughjars...thank you for the co-sign, Nephilim please don't be pissed. If you've read any of my post towards this format war in the past you can understand why I try to school the kids if you know what I mean. Not trying to start childishness in the forum in any way.

For anyone who understands the BD+ security on blu ray discs, you know what I'm getting at. If you are just the average consumer and not a programmer then do your research. BD+ has not been cracked. How could I explain it....they weren't dumb when this technology was created and thats why Sony of all companies stands strongly behind it. If we can compare it to HIV, anything that combats the blu ray system causes it to lets say mutate and correct itself when the flaw is exposed. Kind of like learning from the mistake and then correcting itself into something more immune for later discs when published. This link is to Slysoft's statement about cracking BD+.

[url=http://forum.slysoft.com/showthread.php?t=9453][/url]

Now for myself and any of the other tech geeks out there.... EngadgetHD explains exactly what the problem is for us. Take note that this is poseted after the Slysoft claims in November 2007.

[url=http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/09/bd-has-not-been-compromised-yet/][/url]

The BD+ security can also be explained on Wikipedia if you doubt me. My whole statement is based on the fact that even though HD DVD was compromised, we still had the same freedom of backing up and added no region coding just as we had on standard DVD. Even Paramount and Universal knows this but they don't care. They're kinda more on the side of the people or value consumer. Even though not made public....this is the real reason why the studios started jumping ship. If you read the earlier post it states this fact. For those who enjoy having a collection of backups in the physical format...it just isn't going to happen (yet anyways)in the blu ray format. Just like I and others....Slysoft has its work cut out for them as well.

Also I would ask any of you to read more into BD-Live which is profile 2.0 . There's a reason why there are compatibility issues with profile 1.1 . This is because the security has corrected itself to the exposed vulnerability that the manufacturers now know about. I guess you can thank Slysoft for that.

Again not trying to cause any turbulence on the site but, know the facts before you start flaming in ignorance. Like I said before to you BD fans, you kind of sold your soul and didn't even know it. Vendors are backing blu ray because now they know they will definitely make a profit without piracy of the disc format. The technology of blu ray is actually genius but, until BD+ is fully cracked.....I'd chose freedom over this security anytime.

5614.2.2008 17:39

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Also I would ask any of you to read more into BD-Live which is profile 2.0 . There's a reason why there are compatibility issues with profile 1.1 . This is because the security has corrected itself to the exposed vulnerability that the manufacturers now know about. I guess you can thank Slysoft for that.
I's like to see your source on this if possible and would appreciate a more in depth explanation.

If I understand BD+ correctly, it works even if you don't have the player connected to the internet. (Which makes sense since practically all standalones released so far have no ethernet port.) I'm also under the impression that the player profiles have nothing to do whatsoever with BD+ or any other security scheme.




http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/bd-ha...ompromised-yet/

As I have posted in another thread, one of our senior members has done a field test with the first BD-Live 2.0 title available and the main movie played fine on his 1.0 player.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Feb 2008 @ 17:41

5714.2.2008 19:14

OhCrap just learned what a piss poor sense of humor I have in these threads and vinny13 got a two day vacation for his pointless post after OhCrap's blatant jab at hughjars.


I'm not kidding folks. Keep it cool or you'll be shown the door.



Sazaziel, you're fine. You've posted relevant facts whilst taking jabs at no one :)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Feb 2008 @ 19:15



My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33

5814.2.2008 19:55

The end could be near.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/cont...7d0bfb0c25aa58d

Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say


Quote:
The format war has turned into a format death watch.

Toshiba is widely expected to pull the plug on its HD DVD format sometime in the coming weeks, reliable industry sources say, after a rash of retail defections that followed Warner Home Video's announcement in early January that it would support only the rival Blu-ray Disc format after May.

Officially, no decision has been made, insists Jodi Sally, vp of marketing for Toshiba America Consumer Products. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," she said.

But she hinted that something's in the air. "Given the market developments in the past month," she said, "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

The article also revealed the Nielsen Videscan numbers for the week ending February 10th:

Quote:
Blu-ray Disc titles also accounted for 81% of all high-def disc sales for the week, with HD DVD at just 19%.


Finally:

Quote:
Toshiba had been pitching its discounted HD DVD players toward the standard DVD crowd as well as high-def enthusiasts, noting in its ad message that the new players would make DVDs look a lot better as well. And as a last-ditch effort, the company ran an ad during the Super Bowl -- a 30-second spot that reportedly cost $2.7 million.

But in the end, sources say, the substantial loss Toshiba is incurring with each HD DVD player sold -- a figure sources say could be as high as several hundred dollars -- coupled with a series of high-profile retail defections has driven the company to at last concede defeat.

5914.2.2008 20:02

Quote:

- Pure speculation & rumour
Anyone can do that.
Sony set to abandon Blu-ray
http://digg.com/gaming_news/PS3_without_...itch_the_format
I read it on the internet/in a newspaper so it must be true, eh?
LMAO.

actually you read it on an obscure forum site for tech geeks from a self promoting self styled "reporter" with "inside sources " from the sony camp ;) and way too much ego - not criticising anyone here - just reflecting on what the idiot posted on that site.

6014.2.2008 21:59

Originally posted by juankerr:
The end could be near.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/cont...7d0bfb0c25aa58d

Toshiba to drop HD DVD, sources say

The story is being picked up by other sites.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/14/toshi...to-drop-hd-dvd/
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/T...rop_HD_DVD/1468
http://www.homemediamagazine.com/
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/20...to-drop-hd-dvd/

Added: Even the Washington Post has picked it up:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...8021403919.html

Quote:
Toshiba's HD-DVD going the way of Betamax
...and Reuters as well:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/technology...451010520080215
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 0:44

618.4.2008 21:36

I guess this is the way to go when everyone else is going onthe wat of the blu-ray then if your the last one left then u will loose out more than anything if you do not make the move sooner.

The fact is blu-ray is the better choice in the features and quality however how its not the more cost effective in the long run consumers will not mind paying extra for a better product.

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