AfterDawn: Tech news

International video game piracy is rampant, says ESA

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 12 Feb 2008 16:49 User comments (49)

International video game piracy is rampant, says ESA The ESA(Entertainment Software Association) had filed a new Special 301 Report with the US Trade Representative which shows the growing struggles for growth in the international video game industry thanks to ever increasing piracy.
The report specifically mentions a few countries where piracy is highest, notably Canada, China, Malaysia, Russia and eastern Europe.

Michael Gallagher, CEO of the ESA, explained, "Countries that support computer and video game piracy discourage publishers from establishing viable and legitimate markets. The Special 301 process sends a strong message to them to clean up their act to avoid damaging trade sanctions."

The ESA even went on to say that in some of the areas listed, piracy exceeded 80 to 90 percent. These included areas in southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, and Central and South America. The ESA defines "piracy" as any "factory production of optical discs (such as CDs and DVDs); CD-R and DVD-R 'burning'; cartridge counterfeiting; Internet downloading and file trading; as well as Internet cafe piracy."

The report acknowledges that there are no short term fixes for the major problem areas but hopes that progress can be made in less problem areas such as Canada.

"This year our Special 301 filing highlights countries that urgently need to begin backing up their commitment to creativity and innovation,"
added Gallagher.

"We look forward to working with USTR and other supporting government agencies to achieve tangible results and hopefully succeed in lowering piracy in these key countries."

"Freeing these markets from the pirates' stranglehold will also help empower a local video game economy."

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49 user comments

112.2.2008 17:16
vinny13
Inactive

No, really? Thanks Tips :P

Those bastards caught me once... Threatened to cut my internet and sue if I didn't stop downloading and deleted some game... I finished downloading the game, burned it, copied it to another drive, and then deleted it. I'm not gonna waste my bandwith for some BS :P

***

Oh ya, that remnds me... CopyRight Canada called me today, wanted to tell me about Music and Recordings... I said I was busy and I hung up. Real effective :P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 17:21

212.2.2008 17:19
vinny13
Inactive

Lol... 1000 posts later and I'm still mixing up the Quote button with the Edit button :P

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 17:21

312.2.2008 17:36

despite this "rampant" problem they continue to gain market share at a greater rate then music (declining) and movies (holding steady)

412.2.2008 17:38

The game industry like the other industries are doing things backasswards, they do not lower prices, the quality of products is questionable they go out of their way to make stuff unstable through all the extra protections.

Its not sharers thers not enough of them who share retail stuff, its not the downloaders theres not enough of them who would buy the product in the time frame that it needs to be bought in to effect the game and the pirates well...like the sharers they can only do so much and like the downloaders when they finally get the cracks and stuff going the only ones they really hurt are local places that sale the game because they undercut the retail market and since its after the 3-6 month attention span of the publisher it wont effect sales THAT much.


So really the industry is crying foul that its bottom has sprung a leak and they are to bothered to patch it themselves its not a outside source thats effecting them so.....

512.2.2008 17:43
corn
Inactive

Lmfao. What do you expect? No one wants to pay $60.00 for a new game when you can get it for free.

612.2.2008 17:54

Originally posted by corn:
Lmfao. What do you expect? No one wants to pay $60.00 for a new game ,when you can't return it if it SUCKS!

Edited for truth!
if games were 30-40$ I would be mroe inclined to buy into the crap pooing out of the game industry...

712.2.2008 17:57
varnull
Inactive

ooo.. like I'm shocked.. Fair pricing or suffer.

812.2.2008 18:01

Originally posted by varnull:
ooo.. like I'm shocked.. Fair pricing or suffer.
pretty much I ca see the independent(if there are any left) games being 50+ but for the big pubs theres no reason they cant do 39$ new games....

912.2.2008 18:18
hm577
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
The game industry like the other industries are doing things backasswards, they do not lower prices, the quality of products is questionable they go out of their way to make stuff unstable through all the extra protections.

Its not sharers thers not enough of them who share retail stuff, its not the downloaders theres not enough of them who would buy the product in the time frame that it needs to be bought in to effect the game and the pirates well...like the sharers they can only do so much and like the downloaders when they finally get the cracks and stuff going the only ones they really hurt are local places that sale the game because they undercut the retail market and since its after the 3-6 month attention span of the publisher it wont effect sales THAT much.


So really the industry is crying foul that its bottom has sprung a leak and they are to bothered to patch it themselves its not a outside source thats effecting them so.....

Zippy............I love ya' man but you gotta start using commas to separate your sentences and words like "to, too, and two". "To - meaning 'we're going 'to' the park", "Too - meaning we're going to the park 'too'" and "Two - is the number 2". I had to read your post 3 times to catch the jist of it because it made no sense what-so-ever.

Anyway, calling software and games "questionable" is just a head up your arse statement. I pirate a game here and there but buy most of them. In fact, I just bought Bioshock. THAT GAME ROCKS and is well worth 40 bucks. Personally I don't buy any game until it's been out for 3 months and then lowered to the 40.00 dollar mark BUT THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. Gettin' real tired of people alleviating the responsibility they have to NOT CONSISTENTLY STEAL by saying "oh wahhhhhh, put out a better product and maybe you won't get stolen from". That's B.S. and anybody that takes this mentality is an adolescent moron and can't succeed in society. Anyone who makes this assertion in the past, now or in the future is truly showing their ignorance and will be treated accordingly and a deviant child. OWN UP YOU LITTLE BIATCHES AND DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1012.2.2008 18:22
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by corn:
Lmfao. What do you expect? No one wants to pay $60.00 for a new game ,when you can't return it if it SUCKS!

Edited for truth!
if games were 30-40$ I would be mroe inclined to buy into the crap pooing out of the game industry...

Yet another head up your arse statement!!

Which is it?!?!?! Are the games worth buying or are they NOT worth buying because they're "crap pooing out of the game industry"? Tell me snuffaluffagus.................at what price would you honestly be willing to purchase this "crap"? This is a serious question. If you don't answer then I will assume you can't answer because your foot is in your mouth.

1112.2.2008 18:30

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
The game industry like the other industries are doing things backasswards, they do not lower prices, the quality of products is questionable they go out of their way to make stuff unstable through all the extra protections.

Its not sharers thers not enough of them who share retail stuff, its not the downloaders theres not enough of them who would buy the product in the time frame that it needs to be bought in to effect the game and the pirates well...like the sharers they can only do so much and like the downloaders when they finally get the cracks and stuff going the only ones they really hurt are local places that sale the game because they undercut the retail market and since its after the 3-6 month attention span of the publisher it wont effect sales THAT much.


So really the industry is crying foul that its bottom has sprung a leak and they are to bothered to patch it themselves its not a outside source thats effecting them so.....

Zippy............I love ya' man but you gotta start using commas to separate your sentences and words like "to, too, and two". "To - meaning 'we're going 'to' the park", "Too - meaning we're going to the park 'too'" and "Two - is the number 2". I had to read your post 3 times to catch the jist of it because it made no sense what-so-ever.

Anyway, calling software and games "questionable" is just a head up your arse statement. I pirate a game here and there but buy most of them. In fact, I just bought Bioshock. THAT GAME ROCKS and is well worth 40 bucks. Personally I don't buy any game until it's been out for 3 months and then lowered to the 40.00 dollar mark BUT THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. Gettin' real tired of people alleviating the responsibility they have to NOT CONSISTENTLY STEAL by saying "oh wahhhhhh, put out a better product and maybe you won't get stolen from". That's B.S. and anybody that takes this mentality is an adolescent moron and can't succeed in society. Anyone who makes this assertion in the past, now or in the future is truly showing their ignorance and will be treated accordingly and a deviant child. OWN UP YOU LITTLE BIATCHES AND DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
me trains are marked to to and to....I know what they mean...but to others they just look like...to to and to.... LOL
:P

Again look at the problem look at whos wiling to buy stuff at top dollar RIGHT NOW and you will find the industry is whining about a loss of 1-2% worldwide, the problem is not as simple as removing fair use and becoming the hardware version of the MP3 police.

BTW Bioshock,it sucks(at least to me it burns me so they watered it down for mainstream so much its barely a 6,if they didn't rape it for the console market it would have been a 10....) its not only watered down but poorly made the game is not nearly finished enough to be released and the PC port was broken until they patched it.....Crysis is a much more polished and finished game.

1212.2.2008 18:33
corn
Inactive

At most 50 for a new game. But then, id be questioning myself. But, I don't buy new games, I buy my games used.

1312.2.2008 18:39

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by corn:
Lmfao. What do you expect? No one wants to pay $60.00 for a new game ,when you can't return it if it SUCKS!

Edited for truth!
if games were 30-40$ I would be mroe inclined to buy into the crap pooing out of the game industry...

Yet another head up your arse statement!!

Which is it?!?!?! Are the games worth buying or are they NOT worth buying because they're "crap pooing out of the game industry"? Tell me snuffaluffagus.................at what price would you honestly be willing to purchase this "crap"? This is a serious question. If you don't answer then I will assume you can't answer because your foot is in your mouth.
Mainstreamized crap is worth 20-30$ anything over that I will have to call into question the sanity of the publisher.
Examples

Halo?:25$
FF12: 25$
Bioshock:20$
Crysis:35$
Unreal tournament 3:30
Prey:25$
DMCX:30$
Castelvina?:25$
Jericho:15$
Doom 3:15$(I would pay 30-50$for ultimate doom done with the D3 engine with slight AI and level design changes to better utilize the 3D environment)

in general they price stuff at the most they can and still sale in volume...they can knock 20-30$ off most games they don't because the publishers run the industry.

So I wait and buy used always checking out the stuff I get via downloads first.

1412.2.2008 18:42
tripplite
Inactive

argh U.S.A all the way im pretty sure tat its against r constitution to cut of the internet from our homes, see us Americans have rights for a reason so we can abuse them ;P



1512.2.2008 18:45

Originally posted by tripplite:
argh U.S.A all the way im pretty sure tat its against r constitution to cut of the internet from our homes, see us Americans have rights for a reason so we can abuse them ;P
wrong thread mate :P
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12884.cfm

1612.2.2008 18:55
vinny13
Inactive

Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...

1712.2.2008 18:56

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by corn:
Lmfao. What do you expect? No one wants to pay $60.00 for a new game ,when you can't return it if it SUCKS!

Edited for truth!
if games were 30-40$ I would be mroe inclined to buy into the crap pooing out of the game industry...

Yet another head up your arse statement!!

Which is it?!?!?! Are the games worth buying or are they NOT worth buying because they're "crap pooing out of the game industry"? Tell me snuffaluffagus.................at what price would you honestly be willing to purchase this "crap"? This is a serious question. If you don't answer then I will assume you can't answer because your foot is in your mouth.
If ID made a Quake seqaule that was direct in design and game play as 2 was but bigger or Bungie get together combine Halo 1-3 together clean up the gameplay issues and polish out the level design or Square release a updated FF7 that has not been raped by their modern gameplay design teams I might could well put out 50$ for them but heres the thing they wont and never will design and quality are like water and oil more often than not in the this shortsighted money now media industry.
And as they out pace both music and film they will be the worst of the lot over consumer issues.

1812.2.2008 18:59

Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
LOL
I like the PSX and SNES myself,as I play new games I find the poor design to be frustrating or boring or both.

1912.2.2008 20:13

Actually I don't believe nor agree with these comments based on the ESA stats at all. I think it is another round of whimpering from a company that does a services for other companies and claims to come up with these findings. The average consumer usually purchases the game, plays the game for what its worth and it ends up at your local game trader in which the game becomes devalued and sold used at a discounted price. Since the game was already purchased at retail value these larger companies or publishers gain no profit afterwards when a "used" sale is made at the game trader. So in order to dig deeper into the pockets of the consumer of course they will find someone to take the blame so the company for hire can get the heat taken off of them. If they did not then they wouldn't be doing their job now would they. Sure there are deemed illegal downloads of games but I doubt piracy nearly scratches the surface of actual reasons why publishers cant make a buck but, I'll give you a hint....crappy games!

2012.2.2008 20:37

Originally posted by Sazaziel:
Actually I don't believe nor agree with these comments based on the ESA stats at all. I think it is another round of whimpering from a company that does a services for other companies and claims to come up with these findings. The average consumer usually purchases the game, plays the game for what its worth and it ends up at your local game trader in which the game becomes devalued and sold used at a discounted price. Since the game was already purchased at retail value these larger companies or publishers gain no profit afterwards when a "used" sale is made at the game trader. So in order to dig deeper into the pockets of the consumer of course they will find someone to take the blame so the company for hire can get the heat taken off of them. If they did not then they wouldn't be doing their job now would they. Sure there are deemed illegal downloads of games but I doubt piracy nearly scratches the surface of actual reasons why publishers cant make a buck but, I'll give you a hint....crappy games!
This is true everything takes money away from the hands of the software pubs,if its not a new game less than a month old it dose not make them money, they are trying so hard to push that bottom line on the consumer they are only adding tot he reasons to ignore them.

2112.2.2008 21:12
varnull
Inactive

I haven't paid for a game in years and years.. I rented a lot, and shared them but went into a shop and paid full price?? let me think..

Rick Dangerous on the commodore64 back in 88.. 2.75
There was a hell of a lot more than 6 hours of play in it as well.

Again they are whining about losing probably non existent sales.. If you want to play online and access the extra content you have to buy a subscription to the online servers, and use a legit bought game.. I can't see where they are actually losing..

The people who are losing are the government who are missing out on a second bite of the tax cherry for the second hand sales. They have already had their cut, and the game writers don't see a brass farthing from second hand sales.. so they are crying over nothing.. again..

2212.2.2008 21:22

Originally posted by varnull:
I haven't paid for a game in years and years.. I rented a lot, and shared them but went into a shop and paid full price?? let me think..

Rick Dangerous on the commodore64 back in 88.. 2.75
There was a hell of a lot more than 6 hours of play in it as well.

Again they are whining about losing probably non existent sales.. If you want to play online and access the extra content you have to buy a subscription to the online servers, and use a legit bought game.. I can't see where they are actually losing..

The people who are losing are the government who are missing out on a second bite of the tax cherry for the second hand sales. They have already had their cut, and the game writers don't see a brass farthing from second hand sales.. so they are crying over nothing.. again..
Not really local state/prov tax get put on local retail shops,now the gov(fed and local) is missing out on the 3rd bite from internet sales.

Game pubs are sad they can;t have their "Columbia gold" like the music/movie industry :P

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

2312.2.2008 23:17
varnull
Inactive

Different countries, different scenarios.. but all the same crying over nothing..

Quote:
Oh ya, that remnds me... CopyRight Canada called me today, wanted to tell me about Music and Recordings... I said I was busy and I hung up. Real effective :P
You know something.. a great opportunity to have a real stab at 'em missed!
If it was me they phoned it would have been more like this

Them : hello copyright canada

me:: who?

them:: copyright canada

me :: where did you get this number?

them :: errr.. off your isp

me:: oh really?? why did they give it to you?? what do you want?? Do you know about my right to privacy?? do you have a court order to extract my private information from a third party?

them :: click.. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The marketing model has changed.. the days of physical media are dying as more and more content is available online.. whether put there by the makers or not. They need to change their business models or they will die under the flood of freely available content.
It isn't the fault of the sharers, it is the fault of the makers for sitting on their hands for all these years while the rest of us moved forward into the digital age where paying for something, because of the makers lack of imagination, has become a matter of conscience for the individual....
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Feb 2008 @ 23:25

2412.2.2008 23:25
Icanbe
Inactive

Quote:
Different countries, different scenarios.. but all the same crying over nothing..

Quote:
Oh ya, that remnds me... CopyRight Canada called me today, wanted to tell me about Music and Recordings... I said I was busy and I hung up. Real effective :P
You know something.. a great opportunity to have a real stab at 'em missed!
If it was me they phoned it would have been more like this

Them : hello copyright canada

me:: who?

them:: copyright canada

me :: where did you get this number?

them :: errr.. off your isp

me:: oh really?? why did they give it to you?? what do you want?? Do you know about my right to privacy?? do you have a court order to extract my private information from a third party?

them :: click.. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LOL, so true.
Ask them for their number and tell them you'll call them back when you got a min.

2513.2.2008 5:06

I pay 95$ (65 euors, welcome to Finland) per game, but I don't complain. If the game is good and keeps me entertained long enough, that's a fair price IMO. Movie tickets tickets are 15$, so I see games having a much greater value per euro.

2613.2.2008 6:13
tripplite
Inactive

Quote:
argh U.S.A all the way im pretty sure tat its against r constitution to cut of the internet from our homes, see us Americans have rights for a reason so we can abuse them ;P

wrong thread mate :P
ha ha thats great! i dont know how i made that mistake!


2713.2.2008 6:38
corn
Inactive

Originally posted by arcanix:
I pay 95$ (65 euors, welcome to Finland) per game, but I don't complain. If the game is good and keeps me entertained long enough, that's a fair price IMO. Movie tickets tickets are 15$, so I see games having a much greater value per euro.
$15 for a movie ticket?! Thats horrible! The movies before 8 are $7.25 ( I still have a hard time paying for), and if we go late there $10. Wow, I would never pay $15..

2813.2.2008 11:43

$30 for me. That's the most I pay for any game. If it's not that low, then I wait a year before I buy it. Or buy it used. I had 100 NES games when I was a kid. The price range was $20 - $30. Granted we've had inflation and the value of the dollar has decreased, the amount of $$$ I'm willing to pay for gaming entertainment has not increased with inflation. Sorry to all the developers out there making some pretty sick games.

2914.2.2008 11:43
hm577
Inactive

Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

3014.2.2008 11:48
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
The game industry like the other industries are doing things backasswards, they do not lower prices, the quality of products is questionable they go out of their way to make stuff unstable through all the extra protections.

Its not sharers thers not enough of them who share retail stuff, its not the downloaders theres not enough of them who would buy the product in the time frame that it needs to be bought in to effect the game and the pirates well...like the sharers they can only do so much and like the downloaders when they finally get the cracks and stuff going the only ones they really hurt are local places that sale the game because they undercut the retail market and since its after the 3-6 month attention span of the publisher it wont effect sales THAT much.


So really the industry is crying foul that its bottom has sprung a leak and they are to bothered to patch it themselves its not a outside source thats effecting them so.....

Zippy............I love ya' man but you gotta start using commas to separate your sentences and words like "to, too, and two". "To - meaning 'we're going 'to' the park", "Too - meaning we're going to the park 'too'" and "Two - is the number 2". I had to read your post 3 times to catch the jist of it because it made no sense what-so-ever.

Anyway, calling software and games "questionable" is just a head up your arse statement. I pirate a game here and there but buy most of them. In fact, I just bought Bioshock. THAT GAME ROCKS and is well worth 40 bucks. Personally I don't buy any game until it's been out for 3 months and then lowered to the 40.00 dollar mark BUT THAT'S YOUR CHOICE. Gettin' real tired of people alleviating the responsibility they have to NOT CONSISTENTLY STEAL by saying "oh wahhhhhh, put out a better product and maybe you won't get stolen from". That's B.S. and anybody that takes this mentality is an adolescent moron and can't succeed in society. Anyone who makes this assertion in the past, now or in the future is truly showing their ignorance and will be treated accordingly and a deviant child. OWN UP YOU LITTLE BIATCHES AND DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
me trains are marked to to and to....I know what they mean...but to others they just look like...to to and to.... LOL
:P

Again look at the problem look at whos wiling to buy stuff at top dollar RIGHT NOW and you will find the industry is whining about a loss of 1-2% worldwide, the problem is not as simple as removing fair use and becoming the hardware version of the MP3 police.

BTW Bioshock,it sucks(at least to me it burns me so they watered it down for mainstream so much its barely a 6,if they didn't rape it for the console market it would have been a 10....) its not only watered down but poorly made the game is not nearly finished enough to be released and the PC port was broken until they patched it.....Crysis is a much more polished and finished game.

Label out two (2) detailed and explained reasons why you think Bioshock sucked, was watered down and not "finished".

Counter this if you can...........Game is visually stunning, very difficult, and imaginative as can be. It's a first-person-shooter with the same core ideas as the others and is just outright fun. I'm just curious as to why you don't like. Two reasons please SPECIFIC. Thanks.

I hear ya on the second paragraph!!

What games (besides Crysis) would you consider to be awesome, including the past 3 years. HL2 ROCKED wouldn't you say?
F.E.A.R. was awesome too. C.O.D 2 was great right?? C.O.D. 4 as well???????

Feel blessed mi amigo............we're still 10 bucks under the console prices and probably always will be.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Feb 2008 @ 11:52

3114.2.2008 15:14

hm577
BS is all art/theme alil gameplay and lildetail within.

(order as they come to mind)
1.Inventory
2.equipment(plasmids haphazardly replace them)
3.Simi bland level layout(could use more depth).
4.Dumb AI (can see long range but is generally deaf up to 3 feet,one started its more liking to mindlessly dog you than try and play hit and run with you or find cover)
5.Weapon mods/balances are meek.
6.Invisible walls and meek level layout/design.
7.BUGS BUGS BUGS (subtitle timing off,muse broken,even with the patch you can tell its still a bit off,locked limited key binding)
8.Hard? the game is easy as sht INF lives and near inf ammo System shock 2 is hard BS is easy...on hard its just grinding/wasting time.
9.physics boxs could be heaver its very hard to use them to stack to make steps.

Details like legs,arms,picking up/moving stuff with out a power and using it to distract AI,freezing water,inventory,equipment,balances are missing that makes it feel watered down.


If this game was more SS2 and less gun and run it would have been a great game but the AI with the flow of the game...blah.

Dark messiah is more complete but as unfinished its direction to create a solid RPG FPS is alot better than the gun and run direction BS took,what BS is missing is finish work on the port and details, the game feels moderately rushed.


Altho as jaded as a game nazi I am its still a 5-6 which makes its a 8+ by industry standard, I want to get turok and try it I mgiht put in 50$ but befor I do anyhtign I want to see how stable it is and how bad the modern sci fi army theme they are using is...I love the old sci fi fantasy turok....the generic army man knock off style the new takes is...a turn off...really people fantasy/magic is not a bad word.....



Crysis is ok but falls into the repetitive trap faster than FEAR due to lack of story.

I don't play COD its not my game type ( post or pre modern war/human on human=boring), want to try COD4 tho.


I feel blessed when I buy its 30$ under :P

3214.2.2008 16:49
vinny13
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

3314.2.2008 17:11

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P
Did that and ninja gaiden...........a few times.....

:P

3415.2.2008 12:36
hm577
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
hm577
BS is all art/theme alil gameplay and lildetail within.

(order as they come to mind)
1.Inventory
2.equipment(plasmids haphazardly replace them)
3.Simi bland level layout(could use more depth).
4.Dumb AI (can see long range but is generally deaf up to 3 feet,one started its more liking to mindlessly dog you than try and play hit and run with you or find cover)
5.Weapon mods/balances are meek.
6.Invisible walls and meek level layout/design.
7.BUGS BUGS BUGS (subtitle timing off,muse broken,even with the patch you can tell its still a bit off,locked limited key binding)
8.Hard? the game is easy as sht INF lives and near inf ammo System shock 2 is hard BS is easy...on hard its just grinding/wasting time.
9.physics boxs could be heaver its very hard to use them to stack to make steps.

Details like legs,arms,picking up/moving stuff with out a power and using it to distract AI,freezing water,inventory,equipment,balances are missing that makes it feel watered down.


If this game was more SS2 and less gun and run it would have been a great game but the AI with the flow of the game...blah.

Dark messiah is more complete but as unfinished its direction to create a solid RPG FPS is alot better than the gun and run direction BS took,what BS is missing is finish work on the port and details, the game feels moderately rushed.


Altho as jaded as a game nazi I am its still a 5-6 which makes its a 8+ by industry standard, I want to get turok and try it I mgiht put in 50$ but befor I do anyhtign I want to see how stable it is and how bad the modern sci fi army theme they are using is...I love the old sci fi fantasy turok....the generic army man knock off style the new takes is...a turn off...really people fantasy/magic is not a bad word.....



Crysis is ok but falls into the repetitive trap faster than FEAR due to lack of story.

I don't play COD its not my game type ( post or pre modern war/human on human=boring), want to try COD4 tho.


I feel blessed when I buy its 30$ under :P

I almost feel bad for you Zip.............I'm guessing you have one Hell of a rig or at least some serious spent cash in "gaming" related hardware, whether computers or consoles, and ain't nothing out there that is even slightly entertaining to you or realistically ever will be. You should code games yourself. I bet you would produce some dope results.

BS has patched all those "quirks" so you know and unfortunately you have limited you game selections by only wanting to kill monsters and demons only. COD was by far one of the best games ever.........period. How could millions and millions be so wrong? Now..............the truly defining moment---------HL2/Episode One/Episode Two. Dog any of these and your credibility regarding taste in video games is KA-PUT.......no offense.

Besides........when it comes to games............they should be critiqued similarly to movies............by asking yourself "Was I entertained by this?" If you were then it is not all that bad and everyone just wants to be a critic for some unknown cosmic reason.

3515.2.2008 12:40
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??

3615.2.2008 12:42

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....

3715.2.2008 12:47
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....





I'm 34 ...........and I KNOW that I was one of the first couple thousand to have gotten the NES first in the Chicagoland area. NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY and only occurred after time and IF,,,,,,,,,and I mean IF, you got it working then yes it was good for a while but not a long while. I'm inclined to think that you're not quite sure........The only way I can make clearer certain is for you to give up the year in which you were born because I remember when I bought mine.

3815.2.2008 12:53

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....





I'm 34 ...........and I KNOW that I was one of the first couple thousand to have gotten the NES first in the Chicagoland area. NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY and only occurred after time and IF,,,,,,,,,and I mean IF, you got it working then yes it was good for a while but not a long while. I'm inclined to think that you're not quite sure........The only way I can make clearer certain is for you to give up the year in which you were born because I remember when I bought mine.
The NES slot loading system was always a bit wonky jerk it in the right way it crashs do to lost connections, out of all the cart based systems I had it was the worst to screw up, I had a model 2 it worked fine even the Turbo duo cards worked fine the NES...it could be fickle but it don't "degrade" like the 360 tends to.

3915.2.2008 12:58

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
hm577
BS is all art/theme alil gameplay and lildetail within.

(order as they come to mind)
1.Inventory
2.equipment(plasmids haphazardly replace them)
3.Simi bland level layout(could use more depth).
4.Dumb AI (can see long range but is generally deaf up to 3 feet,one started its more liking to mindlessly dog you than try and play hit and run with you or find cover)
5.Weapon mods/balances are meek.
6.Invisible walls and meek level layout/design.
7.BUGS BUGS BUGS (subtitle timing off,muse broken,even with the patch you can tell its still a bit off,locked limited key binding)
8.Hard? the game is easy as sht INF lives and near inf ammo System shock 2 is hard BS is easy...on hard its just grinding/wasting time.
9.physics boxs could be heaver its very hard to use them to stack to make steps.

Details like legs,arms,picking up/moving stuff with out a power and using it to distract AI,freezing water,inventory,equipment,balances are missing that makes it feel watered down.


If this game was more SS2 and less gun and run it would have been a great game but the AI with the flow of the game...blah.

Dark messiah is more complete but as unfinished its direction to create a solid RPG FPS is alot better than the gun and run direction BS took,what BS is missing is finish work on the port and details, the game feels moderately rushed.


Altho as jaded as a game nazi I am its still a 5-6 which makes its a 8+ by industry standard, I want to get turok and try it I mgiht put in 50$ but befor I do anyhtign I want to see how stable it is and how bad the modern sci fi army theme they are using is...I love the old sci fi fantasy turok....the generic army man knock off style the new takes is...a turn off...really people fantasy/magic is not a bad word.....



Crysis is ok but falls into the repetitive trap faster than FEAR due to lack of story.

I don't play COD its not my game type ( post or pre modern war/human on human=boring), want to try COD4 tho.


I feel blessed when I buy its 30$ under :P

I almost feel bad for you Zip.............I'm guessing you have one Hell of a rig or at least some serious spent cash in "gaming" related hardware, whether computers or consoles, and ain't nothing out there that is even slightly entertaining to you or realistically ever will be. You should code games yourself. I bet you would produce some dope results.

BS has patched all those "quirks" so you know and unfortunately you have limited you game selections by only wanting to kill monsters and demons only. COD was by far one of the best games ever.........period. How could millions and millions be so wrong? Now..............the truly defining moment---------HL2/Episode One/Episode Two. Dog any of these and your credibility regarding taste in video games is KA-PUT.......no offense.

Besides........when it comes to games............they should be critiqued similarly to movies............by asking yourself "Was I entertained by this?" If you were then it is not all that bad and everyone just wants to be a critic for some unknown cosmic reason.

You think I am bad on this you should see me on comic/game movies, entertained, I would be entertained if they didn't water down the fiction for the mindless masses I love it when they rape fiction be it game or film with reality...

BS has patched only some of the quirks the mouse still feels of but at least its playable.

Like hollywood gaming has more cash in titles than well built ones I call it like it is most people don;t care thus why 60$ mediocre and some low grade crap feasts sell well, is the nature of the medium I suppose.

When it comes to BS it as so much potential and it was wasted launch it a year early and my opinions on what was launched is as good as it gets a 6..

As for HL2 I felt it was nerfy and the level design was not as good as 1 the Orange box is about a 8, altho I hate steam so I wont buy it.

4015.2.2008 13:01
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....





I'm 34 ...........and I KNOW that I was one of the first couple thousand to have gotten the NES first in the Chicagoland area. NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY and only occurred after time and IF,,,,,,,,,and I mean IF, you got it working then yes it was good for a while but not a long while. I'm inclined to think that you're not quite sure........The only way I can make clearer certain is for you to give up the year in which you were born because I remember when I bought mine.
The NES slot loading system was always a bit wonky jerk it in the right way it crashs do to lost connections, out of all the cart based systems I had it was the worst to screw up, I had a model 2 it worked fine even the Turbo duo cards worked fine the NES...it could be fickle but it don't "degrade" like the 360 tends to.

Agreed about the degrading part.........Damn lasers are responsible for that .......... and of course the spinning mech. 360 has not degraded that I've seen and MS is fully warranting the boxes for the known issues and I have several friends with 360 for well over a year (or since they came out) and no issues. Not like PS2s anymore.......now THOSE degraded. Mine died inside 3 years. Buddy #1 of mine is on 2nd and that's now dead (thin model) and same with buddy #2. PS3 better be an improvement or can Sony say "Class action lawsuit?"


AGE PLEASE ZIPPY??? Trying to get an idea of the range of coolio peeps that are regulars.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Feb 2008 @ 13:04

4115.2.2008 13:46

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....





I'm 34 ...........and I KNOW that I was one of the first couple thousand to have gotten the NES first in the Chicagoland area. NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY and only occurred after time and IF,,,,,,,,,and I mean IF, you got it working then yes it was good for a while but not a long while. I'm inclined to think that you're not quite sure........The only way I can make clearer certain is for you to give up the year in which you were born because I remember when I bought mine.
The NES slot loading system was always a bit wonky jerk it in the right way it crashs do to lost connections, out of all the cart based systems I had it was the worst to screw up, I had a model 2 it worked fine even the Turbo duo cards worked fine the NES...it could be fickle but it don't "degrade" like the 360 tends to.

Agreed about the degrading part.........Damn lasers are responsible for that .......... and of course the spinning mech. 360 has not degraded that I've seen and MS is fully warranting the boxes for the known issues and I have several friends with 360 for well over a year (or since they came out) and no issues. Not like PS2s anymore.......now THOSE degraded. Mine died inside 3 years. Buddy #1 of mine is on 2nd and that's now dead (thin model) and same with buddy #2. PS3 better be an improvement or can Sony say "Class action lawsuit?"


AGE PLEASE ZIPPY??? Trying to get an idea of the range of coolio peeps that are regulars.
30..soemthing... >>

Zippy acts half his age... >>

and because his brain is wired wrong(learning disabled) speaks a quarter of it :P


Well the 360has more issues than simi cheap DVD drives... the hardware itself is just poorly built.

4215.2.2008 14:03
hm577
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by vinny13:
Most games today are pretty much garbage and full of ads... There is the occasional good one but they always come with a ruthless price.

I still think the NES was like the greatest console ever created...
NES pioneered the game console and the gaming industry BUT YOU'RE LIVIN' IN THE DARK AGES MAN to think that it's the "greatest console ever created". Yeah...........hmmmmmmm.......like anytime in the future you're gonna go out and buy a NES instead of something new, more challenging, more visually stunning and more technologically advanced. You still wearin' 'Toughskins'??

I'd take a NES over a 360 any day... It's kinda sad how a system made 23 years ago still works and your average 360 today doesn't last longer then a year without problems. At least with the NES I know I'll be playing it more and not camping outside the Post Office :P

Oh, and challenging? Every game today gets beaten sooner or later. You try beating Super Mario Bros. without cheating :P

Yeah.....right..........works today........MY ASS!

Can you say "Turn power off, pull the cartridge out, blow back and forth, stick back in, turn power back on, doesn't work, REPEAT, REPEAT REPEAT, REPEAT." How old are you man........??? Too young to remember or too old and forgot??
Its always had that and generally once running and not knocked/vibrated it works fine the 360 however degrades....





I'm 34 ...........and I KNOW that I was one of the first couple thousand to have gotten the NES first in the Chicagoland area. NOT ALWAYS THAT WAY and only occurred after time and IF,,,,,,,,,and I mean IF, you got it working then yes it was good for a while but not a long while. I'm inclined to think that you're not quite sure........The only way I can make clearer certain is for you to give up the year in which you were born because I remember when I bought mine.
The NES slot loading system was always a bit wonky jerk it in the right way it crashs do to lost connections, out of all the cart based systems I had it was the worst to screw up, I had a model 2 it worked fine even the Turbo duo cards worked fine the NES...it could be fickle but it don't "degrade" like the 360 tends to.

Agreed about the degrading part.........Damn lasers are responsible for that .......... and of course the spinning mech. 360 has not degraded that I've seen and MS is fully warranting the boxes for the known issues and I have several friends with 360 for well over a year (or since they came out) and no issues. Not like PS2s anymore.......now THOSE degraded. Mine died inside 3 years. Buddy #1 of mine is on 2nd and that's now dead (thin model) and same with buddy #2. PS3 better be an improvement or can Sony say "Class action lawsuit?"


AGE PLEASE ZIPPY??? Trying to get an idea of the range of coolio peeps that are regulars.
30..soemthing... >>

Zippy acts half his age... >>

and because his brain is wired wrong(learning disabled) speaks a quarter of it :P


Well the 360has more issues than simi cheap DVD drives... the hardware itself is just poorly built.

Cool......then at least you were of "buying" age (barely, like me) to have bought it when it FIRST came out. 6 months down the road for each game.........nothing but problems.

4316.2.2008 6:19

hm577
meh the NES was wonky but stable,the 360 is just flammable 0-o

4416.2.2008 7:20
varnull
Inactive

My brick nes is still working just fine.. and since I built a cart with an eeprom in I can even play downloaded roms on it.. much better than emulation any day (proper controller.. on the TV.. all kinds of things) I seriously doubt any 360's will be working after more than 10 years. they seem to be made to just outlast the warranty period and then screw up.. IF they get that far.. I suspect the same will be true with the ps3, but they haven't been around long enough yet to tell.

and please knock it off with the quote function... it's really irritating.. easier to read if people just quote the relevant bit of the post like

Originally posted by varnull:
what I am referring to
[where do those typos come from?]
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2008 @ 7:23

4516.2.2008 7:23

Originally posted by varnull:
My brick nes is still working just fine.. and since I built a cart with an eeprom in I can even play downloaded roms on it.. much better than emulation any day (proper controller.. on the TV.. all kinds of things) I seriously doubt any 360's will be working after more than 10 years. they seem to be made to just outlast the warranty period and then screw up.. IF they get that far.. I suspect the same will be true with the ps3, but they haven't been around long enough yet to tell.

[where do those typos come from?]
Sorry I much prefer emulation,with timing tweaks save states and graphic filters its just ALOT better, most lens units last about 4-5 years anyway so disc consoles have a 5-8 year life span.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

4616.2.2008 7:48
varnull
Inactive

Quote:
most lens units last about 4-5 years anyway so disc consoles have a 5-8 year life span.
tell that to most 360 owners who are starting to see laser failures in droves.. They defo have a 12-18 month lifespan.

478.4.2008 22:16

There never going to stop piracy. They also missed a big piracy market within the countries mentioned :)

4812.11.2008 22:50

Also to the people that dis the Nes for the flashing blocks error i will tell you how easy it is to fix

1) never blow in any cartrage, that only makes it worse as green shit starts growing on the connectors, instead use a double swap and wipe the connectors with at least a alcohol rating of 70%(90% is preferred)

2)open that beige toaster and locate the pins on the mainboard,take a piece of electric tape and tape the pins on the tray(preferably right where the pins make curved angle)

3) For Christ sake slam those carts in there. Jesus it was the 80's people. you don't sissy handle the Nes, like you do with todays electronics.

#3 pisses me off the most people threw there nes's away because they weren't pushing the cartridges in all the way.

4913.11.2008 16:10

I find that I enjoy a game more when I pay for it. If it's free, I just lose interest because it seems cheap. Now this is just in general, but I think there's something to be said for the psychology behind this.

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