20% to 50%. WOW... that is quite a push. Maybe the fact that 2009 is the beginning of HD as a standard in the U.S. will help them.. but, despite the fact I am a huge Blu-Ray fan, I must admit that 50% is a ballsey push.

Not gonna happen. DVD's are going the way of CD's, and this includes Blu-Ray. Maybe if they started selling $30 Blu-Ray players like a standard DVD player and high def TV's came down in price.

um... no not going to happen, maybe in a couple of years. Unless sony plans to start giving away free blu-ray players and movies. I know a lot of people who own large flat screen tv's and could easily afford to switch to blu-ray, but they simply could care less about resolution this and disc capacity that.

The funny thing is that the people that have money to burn on new high-def technology simply aren't interested. They have had dvd for years and are more than satisfied with it.

I would say a more realistic number would be 25-35% market share in 1 to 2 years. After the players drop below $150 and the movies can compare to what dvd prices are now then maybe they have a shot at 50% market share.

I will believe it when I see it. And the only way for us to see it is there is going to have to be a huge drop in price for every thing. You think I'm going to pass up on a $19.99 or cheaper DVD for a $30 or more Blue-ray.

What's he smoking???

Seems like everyone replying is on the same page as me. I can't afford blu-ray so I keep watching DVD.

Q. Is a monopoly a good thing for anyone except that manufacturer? we have already seen the demise of blu-ray bogof and prices increase for blu-ray stand alone players.

blu-ray offers little for the average consumer over dvd so they may easily get 50% market share when they count all the ps3's against over hardware!

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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... they may easily get 50% market share when they count all the ps3's against over hardware!

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Yeah, they've always done that to look better, but then let's count all the xboxes as standard dvd players, then what? :)

Seriously, I know sony would love to have that market share, but it won't go smooth I'm afraid. People are not ready to give up on dvd. OK, bluray looks better but not THAT much better so it'd make me want to get an expensive player and replace all my dvd discs with expensive bluray's.

Quote:

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Yeah, they've always done that to look better, but then let's count all the xboxes as standard dvd players, then what? :)

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If you want to include the xbox as a dvd player, then also include SONY's greatest seller, the PS2. If you include that then... OMG AVALANCHE.

Quote:

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Quote:

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Yeah, they've always done that to look better, but then let's count all the xboxes as standard dvd players, then what? :)

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If you want to include the xbox as a dvd player, then also include SONY's greatest seller, the PS2. If you include that then... OMG AVALANCHE.

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@ rainofire

this is about blu-ray not dvd, sony want a huge market share, and they probably already have it as ppl do NOT care about the few extra pixels that Hi-Def offers over dvd unless the prices fall lower than current media and hardware which is just not possible for probably 10 years+, if you consider the amount of ps3's sold compared to the stand alone drm-ray players sold they probably have a 95%+ share already but this is not good for anyone except sony in the short term because if other manufacturers cannot compete they will stop making hardware and a company holding a monopoly is not good for consumers!

you comment just enforces the unlikelihood of sonys propertarian, hobbled by DRM format will ever succeed because of the sheer amount of dvd players out there, but with films continuing to be aimed at 13 year old boys who, in their right mind would actually purchase any media coming out of hollywood?

if movies continue to suck sales will fall.

Quote:

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ppl do NOT care about the few extra pixels that Hi-Def offers over dvd unless the prices fall lower than current media and hardware which is just not possible for probably 10 years+,

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A few extra pixels? Original VCR resolution was 360x240 or 86,400 pixels on your screen... the big jump to DVD was max 720x480 (480p) now again that's if you had RGB cables (most didn't and still don't) but let's say you did and could see it at it's best, that's 345,600 pixels or a 4x increase in resolution... significant and the reason everyone made the jump to dvd.. at least eventually, as it took 5 years for DVD to actually start outselling VHS.

Blu-ray (I know.... so horribly hobbled by DRM... wait, isn't DVD DRM copy protected too.. oh wait, don't mention that because it's been cracked) is 1920x1080 resolution or 2,073,600 pixels or an 8x increase in resolution over DVD.

But what about my upconverting DVD player... that says it's 1080p... well it is but its just spreading the same 350K pixels into a 2 million + pixel space... some do it better than others but it doesn't touch a true 1080p source picture... and lord forbid your like the majority of consumers who have, you know the regular old dvd players most people have, the difference is staggering.

Of course if you're watching an old CRT 20 TV, then you're not seeing it... for that matter if you are, you couldn't even see the full quality of DVD, let alone blu-ray.

Clearly we're on opposite sides of the fence but let's be objective and actually talk about what the services offer and let people decide for them selves. I mean if you don't like blu-ray, than you can't like digital downloads because they're mostly 720p at best... and even if they are 1080p... it's only a few pixels right.

You kids move on with your new fangled gadets... I'm hanging out with my 1985 yellow cassette walkman, my 27" RCA CRT TV and my RCA "Hifi" VHS player.... you kids can figure out this ipod, LCD, blu-ray thing.

Originally posted by JimmyNice:

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Quote:

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ppl do NOT care about the few extra pixels that Hi-Def offers over dvd unless the prices fall lower than current media and hardware which is just not possible for probably 10 years+,

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A few extra pixels? Original VCR resolution was 360x240 or 86,400 pixels on your screen... the big jump to DVD was max 720x480 (480p) now again that's if you had RGB cables (most didn't and still don't) but let's say you did and could see it at it's best, that's 345,600 pixels or a 4x increase in resolution... significant and the reason everyone made the jump to dvd.. at least eventually, as it took 5 years for DVD to actually start outselling VHS.

Blu-ray (I know.... so horribly hobbled by DRM... wait, isn't DVD DRM copy protected too.. oh wait, don't mention that because it's been cracked) is 1920x1080 resolution or 2,073,600 pixels or an 8x increase in resolution over DVD.

But what about my upconverting DVD player... that says it's 1080p... well it is but its just spreading the same 350K pixels into a 2 million + pixel space... some do it better than others but it doesn't touch a true 1080p source picture... and lord forbid your like the majority of consumers who have, you know the regular old dvd players most people have, the difference is staggering.

Of course if you're watching an old CRT 20 TV, then you're not seeing it... for that matter if you are, you couldn't even see the full quality of DVD, let alone blu-ray.

Clearly we're on opposite sides of the fence but let's be objective and actually talk about what the services offer and let people decide for them selves. I mean if you don't like blu-ray, than you can't like digital downloads because they're mostly 720p at best... and even if they are 1080p... it's only a few pixels right.

You kids move on with your new fangled gadets... I'm hanging out with my 1985 yellow cassette walkman, my 27" RCA CRT TV and my RCA "Hifi" VHS player.... you kids can figure out this ipod, LCD, blu-ray thing.

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I agree. But you are just wasting your time as some people here like to downplay the increase of quality that Blu Ray offers over DVD and continually complain about Sony for some odd reason.....as that is ALL they do.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Q. Is a monopoly a good thing for anyone except that manufacturer? we have already seen the demise of blu-ray bogof and prices increase for blu-ray stand alone players.

blu-ray offers little for the average consumer over dvd so they may easily get 50% market share when they count all the ps3's against over hardware!

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How about btgof @ amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/re..._rd_i=193640011

Consumers survived the DVD "monopoly", so they can survive the Blu Ray "monopoly," too.

<shakes head>

Blu Ray will get a late 2008 surge when HD sets drop once again for holiday sales. You'll see more bundles, etc. from the box stores (who will likely be down from 2007 due to the slowing US economy.) Translation: they'll be pushing sales and get a nice bump at the end of the year. They are very likely to get that goal, or at least come close. Even in slow economic times, entertainment spending is strong because folks need to feel better - that's where movies, TV, music, etc. come in.

oops

Originally posted by TSRSteve:

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How about btgof @ amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/re...3640011

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thats buy 2 get one free and is only available state side, there are no offers in europe since the demise of the other anti-consumer offering. (btw anti-consumer = DRM = HDMI HDCP)

@pirkster

the monopoly is about manufacturers not a format unless you can dictate prices of components like diodes, and block cheap imports so you can make sure your equipment is the cheapest available, say if the Blu-ray Association failed to issue licences to china, to keep prices artificially high, and such like!


@ JimmyNice, Oner

the average consumer is happy with the quality of DVD as a recent survey stated, and thats in the crazy, keeping up with the joneses, media driven, consume as much as you can USA.

one factor, it is very expensive to replace all your equipment because if you upgrade to HD you have to replace ALL your equipment, because of the DRM, HDCP HDMI that blocks any connection that is not trusted, so when you are spending in the region of £3500+ it is not worth the outlay for the small improvement.

In the UK there are no freeview HD TV channels planned until 2010/12 so if you wish to watch any HD content you have to subscribe to SKY, and when they do get their act together only a few channels will be able to be broadcast in HD because of the available spectrum and even then only 4 channels are actually going to be mpeg4 the rest with a lesser codec, bring back nicam is what i say.

it is going to be the DAB fiasco all over again, where the quality actually drops because of available bandwidth and compression!

Originally posted by above hyperlink:

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04.03.2008 — Sixty percent of U.S. consumers are aware of Blu-ray discs, but hardware penetration for the high-definition DVD format sits at only 9 percent, according to a new survey.

Research firm Interpret, LLC has found that Blu-ray and HD DVD owners continue to buy standard-def DVDs at a rate of 7.7 to 8.7 for high-def titles during the past six months, but more available Blu-ray titles are needed to grow that difference.

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Good to see that Sony going to make more of a impact in the market share by doing other things.I'm very happy with my two BD players a easy upgrade over DVD with no issue with DRM or BD+ like some people claimed.Weather people like it or not HD is going to be mainstream so get use to it thats the way the world works.I'm sorry people like to stay stuck in the caveman days but the world evolve everyday.Blame the world not a company thats trying to make a product to enhance people viewing quality.

Quote:

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Good to see that Sony going to make more of a impact in the market share by doing other things.I'm very happy with my two BD players a easy upgrade over DVD with no issue with DRM or BD+ like some people claimed.Weather people like it or not HD is going to be mainstream so get use to it thats the way the world works.I'm sorry people like to stay stuck in the caveman days but the world evolve everyday.Blame the world not a company thats trying to make a product to enhance people viewing quality.

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I couldnt agree more.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Good to see that Sony going to make more of a impact in the market share by doing other things.I'm very happy with my two BD players a easy upgrade over DVD with no issue with DRM or BD+ like some people claimed.Weather people like it or not HD is going to be mainstream so get use to it thats the way the world works.I'm sorry people like to stay stuck in the caveman days but the world evolve everyday.Blame the world not a company thats trying to make a product to enhance people viewing quality.

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you seem to have a VERY short memory nextgen, as you have posted on these issues on these forums in the past:

there was the issue of FOX's first BD+ blu-ray offerings messing up and failing to play on may players and the BD+ taking as long as 90 seconds to load the disc, and then the early adaptors of blu-ray that have been shot in the back because blu-ray was an unfinished format, rushed out because of the release of HD-DvD. And even some blu-ray discs having the coating rot away.

but other than getting ppl to purchase equipment that they new would not be compatible it has all gone rather well.

Blu-ray: Early adopters knew what they were getting into

Originally posted by link:

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In addition, the BD-J interactivity layer, based on Java, has continued to evolve since the introduction of Blu-ray Profile 1.0. This means that early players may have a buggy implementation and perhaps more importantly, they are not powerful enough to play the latest films properly

When BetaNews asked developers of BD Live whether they were concerned about a backlash from early adopters who supported the format from the beginning, we were told: "They knew what they were getting into."

When BetaNews asked why these manufacturers rushed out players that were not fully capable and potentially buggy due to their BD-J implementation, the Blu-ray partner pointed blame across the room to HD DVD. "We should have waited another year to introduce Blu-ray to the public, but the format war changed the situation," he said. HD DVD was already coming and the BDA had no choice but to launch Blu-ray.

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Fox says, it's not our fault if you can't play our movies

Originally posted by link:

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Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer, we were quick to blame BD+. Fox told Video Business that they're not sure if it's BDJ or BD+ that's causing the issues, but either way it's not their fault.

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That is the price to be paid with the early adoption of new technology that was also in a format war....You know what? I don't even know why I bother, it's not like you will learn or stop posting against big bad Sony and their big bad offering of new technology. This is REALLY getting tiresome and childish.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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you seem to have a VERY short memory nextgen, as you have posted on these issues on these forums in the past:

there was the issue of FOX's first BD+ blu-ray offerings messing up and failing to play on may players and the BD+ taking as long as 90 seconds to load the disc, and then the early adaptors of blu-ray that have been shot in the back because blu-ray was an unfinished format, rushed out because of the release of HD-DvD.

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See this is why i don't reply to your post because you try to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The BD+ issue was Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer & The Day After Tomorrow.They was the two very first BD+ disc released so i don't expect things to be perfect like you do but this issue was fixed(via firmware) in a matter on weeks.But after those two BD+ disc there hasn't been any issues what so ever with BD+ has it ? After those two there has been 103 BD+ disc released with no issue,So I guess this put to rest the BD+ Hoax right ?

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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even some blu-ray discs having the coating rot away.

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Disc rot wasn't even a issue ? Disc rot didn't stop any disc from working so i don't even know why you are nit picking.

Originally posted by Oner:

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This is REALLY getting tiresome and childish.

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I will be glad to come on here one day to post about positive things about Blu-Ray & not some people ranting & raving over copy protection or any other BS that don't have a thing to do with people honestly buying a High Def system & trying to enjoy the HD experience & not trying to cheat the system because they are to lazy to be a careful buyer when it comes to buying movies.

Aye, Sony Shi7 in one hand want in the other, wich will come First i Wonder.

You will not get 50% in your deadline, Forget it.

Many People just Dont See the need for it yet.
and with up converting in almost all DVD players why should they.

Im not hating Sony,they make Fine products. Im Hating the way they do Bussines,there ethics are just Rotten.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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you seem to have a VERY short memory nextgen, as you have posted on these issues on these forums in the past:

there was the issue of FOX's first BD+ blu-ray offerings messing up and failing to play on may players and the BD+ taking as long as 90 seconds to load the disc, and then the early adaptors of blu-ray that have been shot in the back because blu-ray was an unfinished format, rushed out because of the release of HD-DvD.

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See this is why i don't reply to your post because you try to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

The BD+ issue was Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer & The Day After Tomorrow.They was the two very first BD+ disc released so i don't expect things to be perfect like you do but this issue was fixed(via firmware) in a matter on weeks.But after those two BD+ disc there hasn't been any issues what so ever with BD+ has it ? After those two there has been 103 BD+ disc released with no issue,So I guess this put to rest the BD+ Hoax right ?

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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even some blu-ray discs having the coating rot away.

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Disc rot wasn't even a issue ? Disc rot didn't stop any disc from working so i don't even know why you are nit picking.

Originally posted by Oner:

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This is REALLY getting tiresome and childish.

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I will be glad to come on here one day to post about positive things about Blu-Ray & not some people ranting & raving over copy protection or any other BS that don't have a thing to do with people honestly buying a High Def system & trying to enjoy the HD experience & not trying to cheat the system because they are to lazy to be a careful buyer when it comes to buying movies.

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Well said NG, but the sad truth is you & I (as well as MANY others) know it won't change a damned thing with certain people as they tend to omit certain NEW info or use OLD info when trying to make an invalid point. Constantly in some sort of an attempt to propagate misinformation for no good reason.

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Well said NG, but the sad truth is you & I (as well as MANY others) know it won't change a damned thing with certain people as they tend to omit certain NEW info or use OLD info when trying to make an invalid point. Constantly in some sort of an attempt to propagate misinformation for no good reason.

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wow all this from a mod no less........

the thing is all current standalone blu-ray players are profile 1.0 and still new hardware releases are being shipped profile 1.0 which is obsolete because of pending playback issues, with the exception of the ps3, and as of now the ps3 has sold over x-million and standalone players are x-thousand gives sony an unfair advantage against other brands which leaves other manufacturers out in the cold as on price alone they cannot compete with the ps3, is a monopoly on hardware a good thing?

then you have tv's with a blu-ray player built in, are they going to be profile 1.0 to? great when you blu-ray player goes down you have to send your tv back as well.

blu-ray in a pc, pointless atm because of speed & price, the only ppl that would consider this is a "look what i got" person the sort of person that rushed out and got a copy of vista before sp1, well at all....

there is no way that blu-ray will get a 50% share on dvd because of the sheer amount of dvd players out there unless the studios (MPAA) force us all to upgrade to their DRM fest by releasing titles to blu-ray only.

and there is also the alternative to consider downloaded content.

Ask the MPAA/RIAA about apple refusing to raise prices and monopolistic behaviour.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Well said NG, but the sad truth is you & I (as well as MANY others) know it won't change a damned thing with certain people as they tend to omit certain NEW info or use OLD info when trying to make an invalid point. Constantly in some sort of an attempt to propagate misinformation for no good reason.

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wow all this from a mod no less........

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Yep. And your point is?....The thing is I call it how I see it. All you do is make inflammatory mis-informative posts about Sony or Blu Ray news topics. That is fact, as even NextGen pointed out of which you mysteriously seem to not even acknowledge or disprove. Why? Because the truth of what you do is right here, Funny huh? But on that note I will let this go as the proof is blatantly in Black & White.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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the thing is all current standalone blu-ray players are profile 1.0 and still new hardware releases are being shipped profile 1.0

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Absolutely incorrect.

Currently (or shortly) available BluRay standalones that are Profile 1.1:
Panasonic DMP-BD30
Denon DVD-3800BD
Denon DVD-2500BT
LG BH200 (Dual Format)
Philips BDP-7200 (April 08)
Pioneer BDP-05FD (Spring 08)
Samsung BD-UP5000 (Dual Format)

Other announced models coming this year from Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Samsung etc are all 1.1 or 2.0.

Get your facts straight.

Quote:

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Absolutely incorrect.

(or shortly) available

(April 08)
(Spring 08)

Other announced models coming this year from Panasonic, Sony, Sharp, Samsung etc are all 1.1 or 2.0.

Get your facts straight.

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i see, coming..... how many profile 2.0 players that are future proof unlike profile 1.0 are available now?

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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i see, coming..... how many profile 2.0 players that are future proof unlike profile 1.0 are available now?

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Let me quote your incorrect statement again:

Quote:

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the thing is all current standalone blu-ray players are profile 1.0

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I have a Panasonic BD30 which is Profile 1.1.

Many users already have the 1.1 models from Denon, LG and Samsung.

Your statement is still incorrect.

50%.. don't make me laugh. They don't actually have 2% in reality.

They may be shipping this overpriced drm filled rubbish to wholesalers, but it is sitting on the shelves afterwards. We can't even sell BD at £10 because it seems like nobody in our town has a player.

They had 100% with umd and minidisk.. you don't see those very often either.

Word for people.. What a business "wants" is always different to what they get. Sony may be blowing the same BS as usual about how great their marketing is, but lets be brutal for a minute.. They will be very lucky to turn any kind of profit on this technology before the end of the silver disk era. Most people given a chioce of what to spend £200 on are opting for standalone dvd recorders to replace vcr machines.
Not everybody has the luxury of being able to afford watch anytime cable/satellite packages, and in some places they aren't available.

The once only disk is at the end of it's life.. dvd is popular because the hardware is cheap, the disks are cheap and the content is already available. I don't think anybody is stupid enough to be fooled into buying a £800 tv and £300 player just to watch a BD only release...
No.. people on the streets in general have seen through all this smoke and mirrors and would buy a car or a washing machine first.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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i see, coming..... how many profile 2.0 players that are future proof unlike profile 1.0 are available now?

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Are you at least going to correct your statement or at least issue a retraction?

Why should he? I think this is yet another totally pointless pie in the sky non-news item about nothing in particular..

The BD fanboys obviously need their fix of sony otherwise they have nothing to spout on and on and on about.

Sony make (or at least one time they made) good hardware. For everything else they are monopolistic shysters!

Originally posted by varnull:

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Why should he?

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He should because his statement was incorrect as I pointed out.

He shouldn't expect to spout out incorrect statements here without being called out on them.

Yes this thread is Very Interesting Indeed

Quote:

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Originally posted by varnull:

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Why should he?

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Originally posted by eatsushi:

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He should because his statement was incorrect as I pointed out.

He shouldn't expect to spout out incorrect statements here without being called out on them.

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I'm with you eatsushi & the mod, his sig says it all. Bash, bash, bash and then when corrected not a peep or on to something else.

Go get'em Varnull, whoohoo.

How many new upcomming High Def DVD are going to work on your HD-DVD player. Thats what I thought. Sore losers are easy to pick out and wine the longest. So much crap on this thread that I dont remember what the story was about. We know it was not about hd-dvd.

Originally posted by varnull:

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The BD fanboys obviously need their fix of sony otherwise they have nothing to spout on and on and on about.

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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Yes this thread is Very Interesting Indeed ...

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Oh! SOOO-NEEEEE ..... WE Are Not WorthEEEE... To KNEEEEL At Your BLOOO-Ray FEEEEET...




Yummy! [Schrlurppp..] Blooooooo-Ray .... [Ummmmm.... Munch, munch]. :-D

It sure is easy to spot the diehard sony fan boys. One thing is for sure, sony does have a diehard but tiny drm-ray base. I do agree that if drm-ray players, and media, drop into the reasonable price range for average consumers, they'll do it. They will no doubt get more market share when compared to dvd. I think 50% market share by the end of 2008 is extremely optimistic, bordering on delusions of grandeur. But who knows, I guess we'll find out in a few months.

Originally posted by varnull:

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I think this is yet another totally pointless pie in the sky non-news item about nothing in particular..!

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I know it's difficult for some people to accept that Sony actually won a format battle. However, it isn't up to us to chose what news items are put out on AD. You can petition the staff to please avoid reporting on anything remotely positive for BluRay but i think it would be futile.

Or you can just ignore anything that says BluRay in the thread title.

Quote:

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The Sony boss said that the company will offer Blu-ray devices in a wider range of products as part of an effort to increase the global market share of its Blu-ray products from 20 percent to 50 percent, and all of this by the end of 2008.

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Global market share of 50% is still several years off IMO. However, Japan is another thing. BluRay already owns 20% of the recorder base in Japan so this may not be far off for the Japanese market.

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this can happen if a few things are addressed first

1.price

2.more of the back catalog movies

3.the total disaperence of DVD

4.sony can put a ps3 in evrey home

5.strike deals with cable companys to give away free blu-ray players

6.blu-ray must be cracked so it can be bootlegged bootlegging sells players not many movie though,but if people can go down town and buy the movie off the stande then they will i remember when DVD got cracked it sold the shit out of players.not to say that its right to do this but it works and players get sold.and in time when DVD is gone and BLUE-RAY price comes down many will already own the hardware and now ready to buy the much cheaper software from a store.so in the end the DRM must be cracked for this to really take off the way sony want it to.its a double edge sword

If they really wanted this they'd drop the price down to where in-spec players weren't $399.

well fro what i have read in the past and also seen on the bbc news months and months ago,sony paid off disney in the battle between blue ray DVD and HD DVD and a further 2 manufacturers,and now they want 50% of all the sales?? hummmm

Quote:

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Originally posted by varnull:

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The BD fanboys obviously need their fix of sony otherwise they have nothing to spout on and on and on about.

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Originally posted by DXR88:

---

Yes this thread is Very Interesting Indeed ...

---

Oh! SOOO-NEEEEE ..... WE Are Not WorthEEEE... To KNEEEEL At Your BLOOO-Ray FEEEEET...




Yummy! [Schrlurppp..] Blooooooo-Ray .... [Ummmmm.... Munch, munch]. :-D

---

Whats that supposed To Mean, im sorry My tiny Fanboy Brain Can not Decrypt its hidden meaning.

Now kindly look into the Ring.




And Feel are Wrath MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Quote:

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Quote:

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Good to see that Sony going to make more of a impact in the market share by doing other things.I'm very happy with my two BD players a easy upgrade over DVD with no issue with DRM or BD+ like some people claimed.Weather people like it or not HD is going to be mainstream so get use to it thats the way the world works.I'm sorry people like to stay stuck in the caveman days but the world evolve everyday.Blame the world not a company thats trying to make a product to enhance people viewing quality.

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I couldnt agree more.

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No one is disputing that HD will be a standard eventually. NO ONE.

The arguments are that Sony's B.S. monopoly with Blu-ray and the fact that it's an old, antiqueted spinning disc format will probably not be long lived. Sure, BD discs look great but the hefty price increase for media and even more for the hardware is not that significant for the (in my almighty opinion) 'to-be short-lived' new technology. I'm betting that BD is a waste. I, like many many many others I'm sure am not going to participate in BD unless prices drop like rocks to that of Standard DVD.............OR LOWER.

Dual format anyone?

Originally posted by goodswipe:

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Dual format anyone?

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Yes. Regular DVD AND BluRay will coexist for a long time.

Yea, I was waiting for robotech to reply to that one...

Originally posted by goodswipe:

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Yea, I was waiting for robotech to reply to that one...

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Oh..........I'm here amigo. Dual format is the way of the future right?????

HD-DVD and BD are a marriage made in heaven..................and Heaven is called "LG"

/aieeeeee

Oh! SOOO-NEEEEE ..... WE Are Not WorthEEEE... To KNEEEEL At Your BLOOO-Ray FEEEEET...
Yummy! [Schrlurppp..] Blooooooo-Ray .... [Ummmmm.... Munch, munch]. :-D

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Whats that supposed To Mean, im sorry My tiny Fanboy Brain Can not Decrypt its hidden meaning.

---

The friendly, (apparently-benign) image contains secret drms developed by SooooNeeee Drones, to 'Lure You Over To The Dark Side, Luke'. (I wouldn't stare at the pic too long....you can never tell what will happen).

One day, SOO-NEEE will rule the planet, and we will ALL be humbly kneeling before our New God.

(Actually, I was just poking fun at all the sometimes intense, fanatically-supportive folks who eat, sleep, and dream of all things Bloooooo.)

Like-'em-or-lump-'em; love-'em-or-leave-'em; for better or for worse, SOOO-NEEE bought it's way out of the format-war, ($400 mil +) and if you want an HD disc, it's gonna be Blooooo in colour whether ya likes it or not.

Didn't "they" tell you, DXR88, ...




"The whole world's going Bloooooooo-eeeeeeee...."

-- (Chief Blue Meanie, Beatles, Yellow Submarine) --

My guess is that most of the people that complain about Blu-ray and DRM etc. are those that can't afford a high end system and think that they should be able to obtain endless amounts of movies absolutely free to play on their good old reliable CRT.

---

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

My guess is that most of the people that complain about Blu-ray and DRM etc. are those that can't afford a high end system and think that they should be able to obtain endless amounts of movies absolutely free to play on their good old reliable CRT.

---

Walk down any busy city street. I'd bet 9 out of 10 of those you ask won't even know what DRM means or would even care.

DRM means Digital Rights Managment. and just like trojens the come in many different Types. Some Very Anti-Consumer and Some just sit there and do Nothing. there are even some that install software after it opens a back door to your computer, how very trojen like.

(@A_Klingon) Jesus Man that rant made my head hurt. you and Bigtoxy69 should get together and rant all day to see who is better. my money is on Bigtoxy.

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

My guess is that most of the people that complain about Blu-ray and DRM etc. are those that can't afford a high end system and think that they should be able to obtain endless amounts of movies absolutely free to play on their good old reliable CRT.

---

You got that right CRT FTW, Bah what am i saying.

DLP FTW

This is a little off topic, but relax fan boys, drm-ray won. You can breathe easy, your investment in drm-ray is safe for at least a couple more years, maybe longer if they pull their heads out of their butts and drop prices. You get yourselves all worked up into a lather if anyone says anything negative about sony, or drm-ray. Then we have to listen to your Sony sales pitch, and the point of the article isn't even discussed. Again, long deep breath in, long deep breath out. Its not good for your health to get your blood up like that.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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(@A_Klingon) Jesus Man that rant made my head hurt. you and Bigtoxy69 should get together and rant all day to see who is better. my money is on Bigtoxy.

---

Ahhhhhhh, but MY money is sooooooo much better'n his.....

Mine is very...... (ah..).......BLOOOOOOOOO-ISH in colour!!

Originally posted by A_Klingon:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

(@A_Klingon) Jesus Man that rant made my head hurt. you and Bigtoxy69 should get together and rant all day to see who is better. my money is on Bigtoxy.

---

Ahhhhhhh, but MY money is sooooooo much better'n his.....

Mine is very...... (ah..).......BLOOOOOOOOO-ISH in colour!!

---

ill right, jesus i get the picture you like blue, well i like apples.
and thats that.

Originally posted by varnull:

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50%.. don't make me laugh. They don't actually have 2% in reality.

---

The article is referring to Sony's share of the Blu-ray hardware market (ie: Blu-ray players), not Blu-ray's share of the home movie market. This means out of all the Blu-ray players sold and made their way into people's homes, at this point in time 20% of them are Sony branded.

Originally posted by llongtheD:

---

This is a little off topic, but relax fan boys, drm-ray won. You can breathe easy, your investment in drm-ray is safe for at least a couple more years, maybe longer if they pull their heads out of their butts and drop prices. You get yourselves all worked up into a lather if anyone says anything negative about sony, or drm-ray. Then we have to listen to your Sony sales pitch, and the point of the article isn't even discussed. Again, long deep breath in, long deep breath out. Its not good for your health to get your blood up like that.

---

Actually, it's the other way around. Almost every single news item remotely related to Blu-ray is bombarded with negative posts from those that just love to complain about anything to do with Sony and/or Blu-ray. The first post on this thread was conducive to a positive conversation relating to the flow of the news article, followed by 7 posts that were against what the news article was trying to relay.

Those of us that would much prefer to have positive conversations relating to the aforementioned articles can't even do so, as we are continually defending the product that we would like to see make steps towards advancement and the mainstream market.

Of course we would like to celebrate the good news so often associated with the articles posted here. It's what we have invested in, so don't we have all the right to do so? Unfortunately there are some individuals here that wont even let us be to do that. Jealousy perhaps?

Now back to topic, of course 50% is ambitous. However, anyone that has been involved in sales/marketing will know that targets are almost always set higher than may be achievable. Any successful company is surrounded by a culture of stretching their people beyond perceived capabilities...

"If the sky is the limit and you fall short, at least you will be among the stars".

If they aim for 50% and acheive 35%, do you think that is still a worthy acheivement? I do! Any step forward is a step in the right direction for any company. You never know, with the right attitude and an aggressive markting campaign, they just might achieve 50% or more. I have been involved in sales/marketing for about 10 years now. I have successfully managed a team to achieve targets that are very ambitious. All it takes is a unified vision and a never quit attitude. Something tells me that Sony just might have these attributes.

---

Amen brother Ryu77,

I challenge anyone to say the last paragraph of his post isn't an advertisement for Sony!

I rest my case.

LOL

llongtheD, one thing that I overlooked to mention is that you can not do what I was referring to without a quality product! No matter how good your marketing team is, if your product stinks it will not sell. So, yes I am endorsing Blu-ray. I am a proud Blu-ray owner and I completely believe that it is a quality product.

What is the problem? If you don't like something, why participate in any conversation regarding this product? I just don't get it. I can not for the life of me understand the mentality of people that like to put things down or make negative comments that serve no positive purpose at all. You would never find me making such posts. I have said a number of times that if HD-DVD won the format war, I would not hesitate in purchasing a HD-DVD player. It's about what level of entertainment it brings into my home, not who manufactures it!

You claim that my last paragraph is a sales pitch and you also state that Sony fan boys are taking this thread off topic with similar sales pitches. You do need to consider that this article is all about sales targets! So tell me, how do we discuss this news article in a positive way without discussing Sony's sales ambitions?

By the way, you referenced my last paragraph... What about the rest of my post?!

I rest my case!

---

Thank you for your retort.

I never said drm-ray was a flawed product, I was just making light of the Fan boy fervor.
You however, sound like a marketing guru, so I'll say it again for the cheap seats.
DRM-RAY is not consumer friendly right now. Especially the price!

Thats all.

You may continue with your sales pitch.

llongtheD, I edited my previous post. I feel that I have expressed my feelings well enough now.

So yes, let's get back to topic and continue with the sales pitch! :-P

---

I do not wish to join your sales team as of yet.

I am wintering in cuba.

call me when the weather turns.

best regards,

llongtheD

LOL

^ LOL!!!

Just send me your resume when you're ready. By the way our offices are heated... Am I enticing you? :-D

---

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

Actually, it's the other way around. Almost every single news item remotely related to Blu-ray is bombarded with negative posts from those that just love to complain about anything to do with Sony and/or Blu-ray. The first post on this thread was conducive to a positive conversation relating to the flow of the news article, followed by 7 posts that were against what the news article was trying to relay.

Those of us that would much prefer to have positive conversations relating to the aforementioned articles can't even do so, as we are continually defending the product that we would like to see make steps towards advancement and the mainstream market.

Of course we would like to celebrate the good news so often associated with the articles posted here. It's what we have invested in, so don't we have all the right to do so? Unfortunately there are some individuals here that wont even let us be to do that. Jealousy perhaps?

---

I wish that more people would actually respect & understand this excellent viewpoint.

---

Originally posted by Oner:

---

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

Actually, it's the other way around. Almost every single news item remotely related to Blu-ray is bombarded with negative posts from those that just love to complain about anything to do with Sony and/or Blu-ray. The first post on this thread was conducive to a positive conversation relating to the flow of the news article, followed by 7 posts that were against what the news article was trying to relay.

Those of us that would much prefer to have positive conversations relating to the aforementioned articles can't even do so, as we are continually defending the product that we would like to see make steps towards advancement and the mainstream market.

Of course we would like to celebrate the good news so often associated with the articles posted here. It's what we have invested in, so don't we have all the right to do so? Unfortunately there are some individuals here that wont even let us be to do that. Jealousy perhaps?

---

I wish that more people would actually respect & understand this excellent viewpoint.

---

Hmmm, or how bout just ignoring them? That always seems to work. Would be nice if aD could incorporate some type of "block" function that would hide certain users comments from you by adding them to a blocked list.

# opens browser..
# afterdawn.com..
# login, goodswipe..
# ahh, nobrainer..
# block user..

/USER BLOCK FTW!

So Sony plans on making new HDTV's that have Blu-ray players built into them? I think that's a horrible idea. What happens if the player ever breaks? The chances of that happening are pretty slim, but nothing is impossible.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

Actually, it's the other way around. Almost every single news item remotely related to Blu-ray is bombarded with negative posts from those that just love to complain about anything to do with Sony and/or Blu-ray. The first post on this thread was conducive to a positive conversation relating to the flow of the news article, followed by 7 posts that were against what the news article was trying to relay.

Those of us that would much prefer to have positive conversations relating to the aforementioned articles can't even do so, as we are continually defending the product that we would like to see make steps towards advancement and the mainstream market.

Of course we would like to celebrate the good news so often associated with the articles posted here. It's what we have invested in, so don't we have all the right to do so? Unfortunately there are some individuals here that wont even let us be to do that. Jealousy perhaps?

---

I wish that more people would actually respect & understand this excellent viewpoint.

---

I wish that also, but not likely to happen.
But one can always dream.

Yeah id have to block myself thou, wonder how that would work.

I like Sony products. I dont like the Fact that Sony is being the Enforcer of the new HD media. granted they pourd x amount of sums into Blu-ray. they are not the Makers of Blu-ray Just backers of the said technology.

Mabey its just me, but Sony's Consumer mind just hasn't been the same as it used to be.

My biggest fear with Sony right now is this. they are the only contender's of Optical HD Media, what's to stop them from not dropping prices at all, nothing they have no compatition.

Sure its a givin Blu-ray DRM will be Broken, but think about it The don't like people(consumers)Screwing with there Stuff.

PSP is a Fine example Why a Complete HardWare Redesign, it was not Neccesary. they did it to keep people out however it didn't work.

the money wasted in the R&D department could have went to better software design, more first party titles. or just a better way to get a product out there. how many PSP games have you seen advetized on tv.

Sigh, i guess what im tying to say is they need to straiten out there bussinnes model.

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

Yeah id have to block myself thou, wonder how that would work.

I like Sony products. I dont like the Fact that Sony is being the Enforcer of the new HD media. granted they pourd x amount of sums into Blu-ray. they are not the Makers of Blu-ray Just backers of the said technology.

Mabey its just me, but Sony's Consumer mind just hasn't been the same as it used to be.

My biggest fear with Sony right now is this. they are the only contender's of Optical HD Media, what's to stop them from not dropping prices at all, nothing they have no compatition.

---

So which one is it? They are the only company involved in Blu-ray or they are not? I think you answered your own concerns. If you are referring to an alternative to Blu-ray as an optical media, what was the alternative to DVD?

The fact is that there are many companies involved in the Blu-ray Disc Association, so it is not only Sony that will benefit from advances made with this technology. The article clearly states that they currently have a 20% market share of Blu-ray hardware, so that means 80% currently belongs to other companies.

---

Originally posted by Ryu77:

---

My guess is that most of the people that complain about Blu-ray and DRM etc. are those that can't afford a high end system and think that they should be able to obtain endless amounts of movies absolutely free to play on their good old reliable CRT.

---

that sounds just like the sony sales pitch of "if its expensive it must be good" its a keeping up with the joneses remark and most ppl that are 16+ can see right through it.

What sony wish to do is make more equipment with blu-ray in built and phase out dvd, to force everyone to accept the restrictions of their DRM analogue hole blocker. they want a 50% share with current dvd hardware.

if you take into account the ps3 sony already have a 95%+ market share as its pointless purchasing any other equipment as quality is not the gap it was with none HDMI equipment, so sony are basically running a monopoly as there are no manufacturers that can compete with the cheap ps3 which you can pick up off of ebay for as little as £150.

for the average user blu-ray amounts to very little especially in the uk where the only hi-def material is either on a nextgen disc that costs 2 to 3x the price of the equivalent DVD, or via a subscription to sky or cable and the recent announcement from ofcom basically stated there will only be 4 available channels at some point around 2012 that are full mpeg 4 and then the other remaining bandwidth will be sold off for a few others but they will have to use a lesser codec because of the insufficient bandwidth. So why would ppl want to downgrade just as they have found out with DAB (most UK DAB channels broadcast at 96kbps or less, worse quality than current analogue stereo) to a lesser service full of compression?

so ppl in the UK can purchase this overpriced equipment with the overpriced media and then get to watch normal 480i broadcasts on their 1080p screens unless they want to shell out even more cast to subscribe to sky/cable, great and the kick in the bo****ks is that because of the DRM yet to be switched on (broadcast flag not to be confused with Blu-Ray ICT they either forcibly downgrades content to just better than dvd or blocks the signal altogether (Image Constraint Token)) all current sky HD or freeview HD boxes are going to be incompatible so guess what, you get to purchase your equipment all over again!

Broadcast flag

Quote:

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A broadcast flag is a set of status bits (or a "flag") sent in the data stream of a digital television program that indicates whether or not the data stream can be recorded, or if there are any restrictions on recorded content. Possible restrictions include the inability to save an unencrypted digital program to a hard disk or other non-volatile storage, inability to make secondary copies of recorded content (in order to share or archive), forceful reduction of quality when recording (such as reducing high-definition video to the resolution of standard TVs), and inability to skip over commercials.

---

March 13th, 2007
American Studios' Secret Plan to Lock Down European TV Devices

Quote:

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Hollywood's desire to force DRM on TV fans doesn't stop at the U.S. border -- an international consortium of television and technology companies is devising draconian anti-consumer restrictions for the next generation of TVs in Europe and beyond, at the behest of American entertainment giants.

---

Image Constraint Token
Hollywood reportedly in agreement to delay forced quality downgrades for Blu-ray, HD DVD

Quote:

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As the DVD format welcomes two potential heirs to its kingship as the commercial video medium of choice, there are mounting concerns that these new heirs are nothing but pretenders. Blu-ray and HD DVD—the two competing "standards" for the next-generation of video discs—are both shackled with technologically-forged chains, but those chains may be broken by a consumer electronics industry wary of how their existence could hamper sales.

One of the most controversial aspects of these next-generation products is something called the Image Constraint Token (ICT), a security "feature" that allows studios to force-downgrade video quality on players that lack a special video output that was designed to thwart piracy. This "HDMI" connector standard is part of a "protected pathway" for video that was meant to combat piracy by making it impossible for pirates to tap into high-definition video output and press "Record," as it were. Many fear, however, that the only success HDMI will have is in making honest users miserable, inasmuch as consumers could be left with a product that plays at low quality or not at all if HDMI is not present on one's player or TV.

---

@ eatsushi

btw how many players are currently 1.1 and how long have they been on sale(release date please), how many players still in shops are 1.0 (obsolete book ends) and how many players are future proof 2.0?

BTW FYI, i am not anti sony, i am anti MPAA/RIAA/BPI/IFPI/Soundexchange, DRM, anti consumer tactics, ect, sony just happen to be one of the worst offenders, when they offer media or a service that is consumer friendly i will applaud them but while they continue to force draconian anti-consumer DRM on everyone purchasing legitimate media i will point this out as consumers need to know.

the only ppl that win here are teh pirates as they get media without any DRM restrictions, that will play on any device in a quality of their choice.

IFPI Erases Evidence Of Fascist Roots For 75th Anniversary

Originally posted by above hyperlink:

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Any organization reaching a major anniversary would be proud of this fact, with press releases, interviews and celebration. The IFPI hasn’t said anything about reaching its 75th birthday. Instead, one of their staff has edited their Wikipedia page to keep their roots a secret. So what exactly do they want to hide?

On the contrary, the IFPI returned to fascist Italy for the next congress, held in the northern tourist resort of Stresa in 1934. Specially invited was CISAC, the France-based International Confederation of Authors and Composers Societies. They had heavily opposed the IFPI’s goal in giving the phonographic producers rights of their own within the framework of the Berne convention, since they feared this would lessen the composers’ rights. At the meeting in Stresa, the IFPI convinced CISAC to support an alternative line, where the record companies’ rights would be guaranteed in a special convention.

---

Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

# opens browser..
# afterdawn.com..
# login, goodswipe..
# ahh, nobrainer..
# block user..

/USER BLOCK FTW!

---

Excellent idea...and excellent example.

An ignore button like what they have on avsforums or highdef digest would be most welcome.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

# opens browser..
# afterdawn.com..
# login, goodswipe..
# ahh, nobrainer..
# block user..

/USER BLOCK FTW!

---

Excellent idea...and excellent example.

An ignore button like what they have on avsforums or highdef digest would be most welcome.

---

I've already pressed my ignore button. :-D

---

I myself would love a block option but as a mod I really can't...though I do have a ban button! But really, if it is something you guys actually want then suggest/post it in the appropriate area.

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Actually Oner how about this. No more non-information stories about crap supposition from Sony?

We don't give a ---- what sony want or don't want, the simple fact is they are anti competition and anti consumer.

As part of the BIG 4 music and media cartel I boycott everything Sony. That's my choice, and I think people are stupid who buy anything made by sony.. If they want to support a non-free world carry on.. Not for me to stop them being stupid and buying overpriced shoddy goods Globalcorp )engsoc) here we come.

Think in future I will restrict my comments about all these BS non news items to just that.. BS supposition and propaganda.. it's not news!

Whereas a sub $300 laptop comes out... Revolutionary new operating system.. not a murmer.. I'm starting to think certain people are in the employ of Sony on this site, constantly pushing this non news agenda of everything this EVIL corporation spouts.
/rant off.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Actually Oner how about this. No more non-information stories about crap supposition from Sony?

We don't give a ---- what sony want or don't want, the simple fact is they are anti competition and anti consumer.

As part of the BIG 4 music and media cartel I boycott everything Sony. That's my choice, and I think people are stupid who buy anything made by sony.. If they want to support a non-free world carry on.. Not for me to stop them being stupid and buying overpriced shoddy goods Globalcorp )engsoc) here we come.

Think in future I will restrict my comments about all these BS non news items to just that.. BS supposition and propaganda.. it's not news!

Whereas a sub $300 laptop comes out... Revolutionary new operating system.. not a murmer.. I'm starting to think certain people are in the employ of Sony on this site, constantly pushing this non news agenda of everything this EVIL corporation spouts.
/rant off.

---

Here Come the Fanboys Varnull, Marching in to take you away.

I suggest adding an ignore button specifically for varnull's use so he can block any thread that has anything to do with BluRay, Sony, or the BDA. Any news item that has the words BluRay, Sony or the BDA will automatically be invisible on his PC. ;)

This should also be good for nobrainer.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Actually Oner how about this. No more non-information stories about crap supposition from Sony?

We don't give a ---- what sony want or don't want, the simple fact is they are anti competition and anti consumer.

---

Who is we? Please varnull only speak on behalf of yourself and perhaps the rest of your pessimistic group. Unfortunately, you don't have the right to speak on behalf of everybody here at AfterDawn. There are many others here that do want to read news articles related to Sony, Blu-ray and the PS3 etc.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

As part of the BIG 4 music and media cartel I boycott everything Sony. That's my choice, and I think people are stupid who buy anything made by sony.. If they want to support a non-free world carry on.. Not for me to stop them being stupid and buying overpriced shoddy goods Globalcorp )engsoc) here we come.

---

So are you calling us stupid? Please continue to do so... So you can break the rules and get suspended!

I am in no way trying to start a social status war here but I can almost guarantee you that most Blu-ray consumers at this point in time are high end customers. These are the type of people that are successful in their career and have enough disposable income to purchase high end A/V equipment. In my opinion that nowhere near equals "stupid" status.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Think in future I will restrict my comments about all these BS non news items to just that.. BS supposition and propaganda.. it's not news!

---

Yes please! Can you take the rest of your group with you? Hopefully then, the people that actually own a Blu-ray device can have the positive & peaceful discussions that we have every right to have. I seriously don't get this whole fiasco. If you don't want to buy something, that's fine! Of course you have every right to make that decision. Why the constant attacking towards those that do want to enjoy the benefits of that product? Don't we also retain our own consumer rights and therefore have the freedom to make up our own minds?

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Whereas a sub $300 laptop comes out... Revolutionary new operating system.. not a murmer.. I'm starting to think certain people are in the employ of Sony on this site, constantly pushing this non news agenda of everything this EVIL corporation spouts.
/rant off.

---

Thank you, I just did.

---

They Have Spoketh, Varnull

On behalf of Varnull, is this not a news thread Are people not intitled to there view or opinion.

If you dont like the person's view of things then why respond just ignore it, it takes two to argue.

Unless your wierd and argue with yourself.

My final post on this thread

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

On behalf of Varnull, is this not a news thread Are people not intitled to there view or opinion.
If you dont like the person's view of things then why respond just ignore it, it takes two to argue

---

Actually varnull is advocating a ban on all news items remotely related to Sony or BluRay.

So you can also say: "If you don't like the news article then why respond, just ignore it..."

Man, where's the news article about Mitsu's new DLP LaserVue HDTV's? That's something to talk about...

Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

Man, where's the news article about Mitsu's new DLP LaserVue HDTV's? That's something to talk about...

---

oh ya laser tv is what i'm w8ng for before i purchase a new screen, lcd and plasma suck in comparison. cheaper to manufacture, better picture, less energy to run and they don't suffer with digital smear or blocking.

what will be the finest moment is laser projectors as teh bulbs last the lifetime of the unit not limited to a few thousand hours. one of these will occupy my lounge for the long winter nights, lets hope hollywood dies a death sometime soon so real talent can produce films instead of the current trend of films aimed at 13 year old boys full of bad acting, poor scripts and just good special effects to tempt us to part with our cash. *NOTE* to hollywood; better effects do NOT make a good movie! Dr Strangelove FTW!

Originally posted by juankerr:

---

Originally posted by DXR88:

---

On behalf of Varnull, is this not a news thread Are people not intitled to there view or opinion.
If you dont like the person's view of things then why respond just ignore it, it takes two to argue

---

Actually varnull is advocating a ban on all news items remotely related to Sony or BluRay.

So you can also say: "If you don't like the news article then why respond, just ignore it..."

---

I like the bold part myself.

---

Originally posted by nobrainer:

---

Originally posted by goodswipe:

---

Man, where's the news article about Mitsu's new DLP LaserVue HDTV's? That's something to talk about...

---

oh ya laser tv is what i'm w8ng for before i purchase a new screen, lcd and plasma suck in comparison. cheaper to manufacture, better picture, less energy to run and they don't suffer with digital smear or blocking.

what will be the finest moment is laser projectors as teh bulbs last the lifetime of the unit not limited to a few thousand hours. one of these will occupy my lounge for the long winter nights, lets hope hollywood dies a death sometime soon so real talent can produce films instead of the current trend of films aimed at 13 year old boys full of bad acting, poor scripts and just good special effects to tempt us to part with our cash. *NOTE* to hollywood; better effects do NOT make a good movie! Dr Strangelove FTW!

---

Yea, I'm interested to see what they are going to charge for this technology. I'm assuming they will be cheaper then plasma since it cost less to manufacture. They did a side by side comparison between between one model and a Pioneer Kuro and hands down, the Mitsu blew it out of the water.

The sets will range from 60" to 73" and should cost anywhere from 1800 and 4700 USD - hopefully!

Goodswipe's greatest desire - HDTV's with freaken laser beams attached to em!

wrong wrong wrong.. it is the FACT that every little utterance from sony about anything is covered like it is news.. It isn't..It is a company saying in a fantasy world what they would like to see.
Actually my view on the whole item is this.. sony bought out the providers (anti-competitive behaviour) and exterminated the competition.. very likely in direct contravention of most of the planets free trade and anti trust laws. If they only expect 50% of HD hardware and media sales by the end of the year then that is in itself an expression of how ani competetive they really are.. They really want 100% but think by stating their true aims the larger plan will become obvious to the kinds of people they don't want seeing it.. Now we have won we will dominate.. we got away with it once, so we will carry on until either the lawyers get involved or the general consumer base rumble it..
It isn't good for technology and it isn't good for consumers.

So sony employed bloggers.. who cares about consumers, freedom and the future eh? certainly not you.

I was reading back about how 90% of people in the street don't know about DRM and don't care.. Well then.. Isn't it up to us who DO know and DO care to stand up for the ignorant and bamboozled who don't understand when their expensive hardware investment from last year won't play next years disks? We have a moral obligation to stand up for fair use and the freedom to buy hardware from who we want with the sure knowledge that having a certain logo on it means it will play in some piece of hardware bearing the same logo, not at the whim of people like sony and the MPAA!!
Any less is a betrayal of the trust our friends and neighbours put in us as the "geek who knows about this s--t"

Originally posted by varnull:

---

We have a moral obligation to stand up

---

You need to lighten up. You're taking things too seriously.

They're just discs with movies or songs on them.

Are they needed to survive? No.
If you don't buy these products will you cease to exist? Absolutely not.
Are the companies forcing you to buy them? Heck no.

They're a source of entertainment, things you use to pass your free time. Nothing else.

Save your moralizing for the really important issues - like poverty, hunger, and the lack of adequate medical care...things that can really screw up someone's life. Not the shiny little discs with movies and songs on them.

Just because someone can't buy the latest BluRay gadgets and HDTV's doesn't mean he's being oppressed. It just means he'll have to watch the movie in 480i.

@ juankerr

globalisation and capitalism is the rot of this world. it allows the top 2% of the population to own 95% of the wealth of this world.

DRM embedded into blu-ray is anti consumer and because of stupid laws like the dmca gives the MPAA a licence to print money and region coding is their way of global price fixing. its anti consumer and should be fought at ever step to stop Orwellian, draconian laws from being passed.

Quote:

---

They're a source of entertainment, things you use to pass your free time. Nothing else

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An EXPENSIVE form of entertainment which people who know less will ask you for your advice on before buying.

Now you may have no personal integrity towards friends, relations and even somebody you see being mis-sold a product in a shop, but sorry for having a conscience.. I have.

As a member of the FSF I have taken a stance against closed and proprietary formats, this includes all forms of DRM and commercial lockin tactics. This isn't for my benefit (though there is a little kudos attached) it is for the future. As nobrainer correctly reminds people, monopolies are bad, and monopolies who control 100% of something globally are worse.
I'm sure Sony themselves would have ben happy to keep improving their technology in the face of competition by adding features and extras which the competition couldn't compete with. As it is now all that is left is for them to keep selling exactly the same product unchanged till the end of it's life whilst attempting to prolong that life by stifling any new technology that threatens that cushy comfortable secure monopoly.

Surprise here.. It isn't the anti globalisation anti monopolies and anti drm campaigners who are making a big issue over this.. it is the fanboys who can see no wrong in denying access to bought content, and a fair choice in the market place for everybody. An elitist attitude that you will do well to look back on as it all falls apart over the next 10 years.

Originally posted by varnull:

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An EXPENSIVE form of entertainment which people who know less will ask you for your advice on before buying.
Now you may have no personal integrity towards friends, relations and even somebody you see being mis-sold a product in a shop, but sorry for having a conscience.. I have.

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I tell them bluntly - If you can't afford it then don't buy it. Don't go into debt just because you want the same toys as your neighbor. If you need a high def player to cost $99 or less and movies to cost $15 or less then you're not ready to get into this hobby. And yes it's just a hobby. It's a non-essential activity and the gadgets and machines are luxury items.

...and someone like you would be the last person I'd ask for advice on high-def media and technology.

Quote:

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monopolies are bad, and monopolies who control 100% of something globally are worse.

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The only problem with that is that BluRay is not a monopoly. In fact, Panasonic owns most of the BluRay patent pool.

Quote:

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I'm sure Sony themselves would have ben happy to keep improving their technology in the face of competition by adding features and extras which the competition couldn't compete with

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With the addition of BD-Live 2.0 to their upcoming players and to the PS3, Sony has already equalled what the competition (HD DVD) had to offer.

The competition now will be among:
>the player manufacturers - who can put in the most features for the best price.
>the movie studios - who can bring out the best releases.

Consider also: before HD media arrived regular DVD had a virtual monopoly on movie distribution after VHS was pushed out of the way. What did we see with DVD? Price drops on players as manufacturers competeted against each other PLUS price drops on discs as movies studios competed against each other.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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With the addition of BD-Live 2.0 to their upcoming players and to the PS3, Sony has already equalled what the competition (HD DVD) had to offer.

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Don't forget - with onboard DTS-HD MA decoding in the Denon DVD-3800BD, and coming in the PS3 (with the 2.3 update), the Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the Sony BD-S550 - BluRay has surpassed the competition.

No HD DVD player ever came out with onboard DTS-HD Master Audio decoding.

for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

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eatsushi was responding to varnull's statement that without competition there will be no improvement in the product.

Next time read the previous posts for a change then you'll know what people are talking about.

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Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

---

eatsushi was responding to varnull's statement that without competition there will be no improvement in the product.

Next time read the previous posts for a change then you'll know what people are talking about.

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Exactly. varnull asserted that without competition Bluray wasn't going to improve their product with new features. eatsushi pointed out that that this wasn't true given the fact that they're adding new features and extras not just to the PS3 but also to the standalones (such as DivX/DivX HD certification and playback ability in the Denons and the new Panasonic).

Originally posted by DXR88:

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They Have Spoketh, Varnull

On behalf of Varnull, is this not a news thread Are people not intitled to there view or opinion.

If you dont like the person's view of things then why respond just ignore it, it takes two to argue.

Unless your wierd and argue with yourself.

My final post on this thread

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What happened? I thought it was your final post.

If you did actually read my post as error5 correctly indicated that you are having trouble doing, you will see that I was asking varnull to not speak on behalf of everybody.

What I find completely amazing is any solid point that we relay gets completely ignored and instead you guys continue on with your endless anti Blu-ray rant. We rip anything you say to bits and as a retort you guys look for the tiniest little holes in what we say.

You want to know the truth, if you actually previously owned a HD-DVD player I would at least respect where you are coming from. This is why I respect goodswipe. A while back he was quite passionate about HD-DVD technology but at least he is mature enough to participate in conversations regarding Blu-ray without acting like a jealous little Child.

A true A/V enthusiast doesn't really care who manufactures the product as long is it is a high quality product that brings cutting edge entertainment into their homes.

I've already expressed my feelings to the Moderators of having a zero tolerance policy towards any posts that are of a negative or flaming nature. I sincerely hope this gets implemented in full force.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

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As I posted to you on page 3: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/648686/3942302

What was the alternative to DVD?

If anything, Blu-ray is faced with more competition today than DVD did in its inception. There are many other means of obtaining HD material like free to air DTV, digital Cable/Satellite TV and digital downloads etc. What did DVD have to compete with back when it was first introduced to the market? VHS, analog cable/free to air TV perhaps? I don't think this can be classified as viable competition.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

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The way eatsushi spoke sounded nothing like it was supported from the very beginning. Actually, it was completely the other way around! His point was that varnull said that without competition that the Blu-ray format will not be improved any further, so eatsushi's point was that DTS-HD MA on board decoding is an "optional" feature that is currently being added to some Blu-ray players.

PS: varnull is female! I have noticed a few people calling varnull "him". If you look at varnull's profile you will notice female as the gender stated. Please excuse my off topic, personal details post.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

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You make that sound like it's easy to develop a state of the art lossless codec, capable of replicating audio bit for bit identical to the studio original. Maybe HD-DVD would have had something like MP3-HD? LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist that one. DXR88, I honestly think that you are in over your head. You are talking amongst people that are very knowledgeable about the aforementioned A/V technologies. Please, if you are going to make points, at least give us a point of view that is worth talking about.

The truth of the matter is that if HD-DVD was still around they wouldn't be offering something "similar". They would be offering the same High Definition audio formats, which are Dolby TrueHD and/or DTS-HD (Master Audio/High Resolution Audio). Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD are the only two formats (apart from PCM 5.1) that are capable of delivering mind blowing HD audio. Dolby TrueHD is already supported on some players (including the PS3). DTS-HD MA is also already supported by the Denon DVD-3800BD. The PS3 (and other stand alones) will very soon have support for DTS-HD also.

Honestly, I don't mind opposing views. I actually welcome them. As long as they are educated, well researched and coming from an A/V enthusiast point of view. What this means is that there are no "fan boy" emotions or "hateful" annotations attached to their comments.

Look at error5's sig... You will see the type of person that I am referring to. He has both a HD-DVD and Blu-ray player, high end A/V equipment and more than enough titles (in both formats) to show that he is a "true" A/V enthusiast.

If something comes along that did truly rival Blu-ray as a format, I would welcome it with open arms.

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Quote:

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PS: varnull is female! I have noticed a few people calling varnull "him". If you look at varnull's profile you will notice female as the gender stated. Please excuse my off topic, personal details post.

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one would Hope so, and if i did call you a him varnull. just keep in mind my brain is like a 5-inch floppy diskette only 720KB.

Alright you win im done,

But before i let you off, do you know if there is any posability
That i can put my panisonic dmp-bd30k to use. its profile is 1.1

Shout or pm me i dont care.

Now truly my last post, me thinks.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Alright you win im done,

But before i let you off, do you know if there is any posability
That i can put my panisonic dmp-bd30k to use. its profile is 1.1

Shout or pm me i dont care.

Now truly my last post, me thinks.

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So you do own a Blu-ray player?? Now that is confusing! When you say put it to use, what do you mean?

Well, instead of looking at it everynight thinking about how much you dislike it, why don't you try popping one of those shiny little BD discs into it.

Being profile 1.1 wont stop it from playing BD 2.0 titles, it just means that you wont have access to BD-Live.

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I did say me thinks,

Sigh, yeah i tried That i go to Play Movie and it just locks it self up.

Anything 2008ish it does it with sorry im not more specific,

not a help thread so shout when your done ranting.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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I did say me thinks,

Sigh, yeah i tried That i go to Play Movie and it just locks it self up.

Anything 2008ish it does it with sorry im not more specific,

not a help thread so shout when your done ranting.

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Drop the attitude! Ok, my response to you was more than fair. Of course I am confused about your your position here. You do nothing but knock Sony and Blu-ray and now you want help.

Now you claim that I should PM you because it's not a help thread. Well, what sort of thread is it? I think we've already long ago diverted away from the original topic, with no effort from yourself up until now to bring it back to topic.

The fact that I even offered some level of help is more than I should of even done. I'm starting to ask myself if you do actually own that player or if you're just trying to prove some kind of anti Blu-ray point? I find it impossisible to believe that every movie you attempt to play locks up! Did you try a firmware upgrade? So yes, now please do go away.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Now you claim that I should PM you because it's not a help thread. Well, what sort of thread is it? I think we've already long ago diverted away from the original topic, with no effort from yourself up until now to bring it back to topic.

The fact that I even offered some level of help is more than I should of even done. I'm starting to ask myself if you do actually own that player or if you're just trying to prove some kind of anti Blu-ray point?

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Sounds suspicious doesn't it, Ryu77?

I myself find it extremely difficult to believe that someone who posted this last week now actually owns a BluRay player, let alone the $500 Panny BD30:

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/647110#3918264

Quote:

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US has most Blu-ray awareness

DXR88
Member
3. April 2008 @ 20:08
Mwhahahahahaha. Im aware That its a disk format,Doesnt Mean i give A Rats 4$$ about it. Now do the Same survey and ask People do they Care.

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Lol yeah for one that goes thru the thread too pick out things that support His/Her idea of this guy bluffing.

tell you what Error5 butt out sorry, but i wasn't talking to you

yeah yeah its a pulic thread thats why i wanted to pm ryu, but instead id thought save a little time for myself by posting it here.

But i can see that was a mistake...

anyway Ryu sorry to bother you about this. i beleave it maybe hardware related anyway, been googletering it like crazer and nothing tells me its an isolated issue.

but all i do is nock sony, huh. yeah let me tell you im 1000.00% anti-sony yep thats right let me tell you

ive owned every playstation console, even the ps3 till it started munching my discs.

iv got a sony trinton monitor that im typing this message through,

hell i even have a sony dvd/vcr combo, even had an old sony vio desktop.

but im 1000.00% anti-sony and yes i have an attitude now

you know what i dont want your help you can keep it. im thinking about buying the gun medal PS3 anyway

Originally posted by DXR88:

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but all i do is nock sony, huh. yeah let me tell you im 1000.00% anti-sony yep thats right let me tell you

ive owned every playstation console, even the ps3 till it started munching my discs.

iv got a sony trinton monitor that im typing this message through,

hell i even have a sony dvd/vcr combo, even had an old sony vio desktop.

but im 1000.00% anti-sony and yes i have an attitude now

you know what i dont want your help you can keep it. im thinking about buying the gun medal PS3 anyway

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I can not follow you at all. One minute you say you don't care about anything to do with Blu-ray, the next minute you're looking for help on a Blu-ray player which is more than likely fictional.

In that thread that error5 linked to you state that you are only interested in gaming. Now you also back that up futher by saying you've owned every Playstation console, including a PS3 and you are looking at getting the Limited Edition Gun Metal PS3. Are you not aware that PS3 games are pressed on Blu-ray discs? So doesn't that mean that Blu-ray as an optical disc format (not as a movie format) is needed in order for you to enjoy the games on the PS3? Wouldn't it be in your best interest for Blu-ray as a format to develop? This means increased revenue for the BDA. This will result in more money spent on R & D, which will effectively lower manufacturing costs. This will funnel down to us as the consumer in these ways... 1) Less expensive games & movies. 2) More titles to choose from. 3) Lower hardware prices. 4) Enhancements in the Blu-ray technology across the entire hardware/software range.

Believe me, you wont be getting any help from me from now on. There are many others here at AfterDawn that value my help immensely (see my sig for links). I am not going to waste my time offering help to someone that replies with Childish banter.

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Ryu77;

Through no fault of your own, and despite your best efforts, and those of others, this thread has degenerated into a foolish soap-opera-like mess, the end of which seems nowhere in sight.

At your discretion, I will close this thread - it's going nowhere. Don't know if that will help -- similar threads always seem to crop up like weeds elsewhere, but at least it would be a start.

I'll give you the final say on this. (Your choice).

-- A_K --

Originally posted by A_Klingon:

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Ryu77;

Through no fault of your own, and despite your best efforts, and those of others, this thread has degenerated into a foolish soap-opera-like mess, the end of which seems nowhere in sight.

At your discretion, I will close this thread - it's going nowhere. Don't know if that will help -- similar threads always seem to crop up like weeds elsewhere, but at least it would be a start.

I'll give you the final say on this. (Your choice).

-- A_K --

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Yes, these threads often do turn into a soap opera like mess (great analogy).

To be completely honest as I mentioned earlier on in this thread, what I would like to see is a zero tolerance policy towards any negativity or Childish behaviour posted on any news articles. Anyone that gets out of control, no warning... Just instant suspension. Consistent offenders should get banned permanently. Maybe a 3 strike system...? 1st offence: 1 week suspension, 2nd offence: 1 month suspension, 3rd offence: Bye bye!

I know it sounds harsh but how else can these news articles function as intended without such a system in place?

Of course this isn't just for those against the PS3 & Blu-ray etc. I am referring to anything of that nature. If a PS3 Fan Boy/Girl (for lack of a better word) jumps on a XBox news thread and starts ranting away about how crappy the XBox is and how the PS3 is the greatest thing in the World, then the same goes. It's not conducive to positive conversation relating to the news article and as such has no place being there.

I was speaking to LOCOENG a little while back (just before hughjars got the can) and he gave me the impression that a zero tolerance policy was going to be put into place. I truly wish this could be followed up as I thought it would be.

Please understand that I am in no way saying we must all be like timid little Animals, never speaking our mind. Opposing views are always welcome, provided that they are delivered in a mature & respectful way.

It's not up to any of us to decide if a news article is worthy or not (as varnull suggested that all Sony articles are not worthy of news). That choice is and always will be that of AfterDawn staff. It would be a shame to see news articles closed just because people can't be mature enough to have respectful conversations amongst each other. If you don't agree with what the news article is saying... It's simple! Don't participate in any conversation regarding the topic at hand. Is it really that hard? Do we not have enough self control to stop ourselves from posting demeaning comments?

Why all the hatred (I don't even like using that word)? Why the anguish? Can't we all just be friends and get along? We all joined here because we have something in common. We all have a passion for one or all of the following; PC's, gaming, movies, music etc. etc. This site was developed so we could get the most out of what we love. Can we now please carry on and be free to do that, without being judged upon if our opinion is different to someone elses?

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Quote:

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It would be a shame to see news articles closed just because people can't be mature enough to have respectful conversations amongst each other

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every now and then i open a thread with some buds a NON flaming NON flanboy console/brand argument thread, we list all the facts, state cases where hardware/consoles have failed, its actually quite nice to have a peaceful discussion about which brand or console you want or like and why, you learn quite a bit........but then the n00bs shank us till we bleed and we end up leaving the thread because its just about non-nonsensical ranting and arguments about "yo momma"

-tripplite

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Yes tripplite, which is exactly why I suggested the zero tolerance policy. To be honest, I almost always see you posting in a good manner. I find some of the things you say quite entertaining. You seem to have a happy nature.

The way I see it when a thread spirals out of control, there are two options. 1) Close the thread. 2) Remove the person/people responsible for the mess.

I think option 2 is surely the best way to go as that deals with the problem at its source.

On that note, let's leave it at that. Hopefully now this thread can get back to topic and remain open for related discussion.

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Heh, whatever u Say ryu77.

Im done Posting here it has been somewhat dissapointing Experince.

RYU:

Quote:

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Can't we all just be friends and get along?

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.. You are the Rodney King of Afterdawn.com
Except for the looting and stuff..

Your help and expertise is a major factor in why I visit this site.
If someone had a "bad experience" they should move on as it is more than likely their fault.

LOve 4 EVA:

Hunt720 ;-)

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Yes tripplite, which is exactly why I suggested the zero tolerance policy. To be honest, I almost always see you posting in a good manner. I find some of the things you say quite entertaining. You seem to have a happy nature.

The way I see it when a thread spirals out of control, there are two options. 1) Close the thread. 2) Remove the person/people responsible for the mess.

I think option 2 is surely the best way to go as that deals with the problem at its source.

On that note, let's leave it at that. Hopefully now this thread can get back to topic and remain open for related discussion.

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a zero tolerance on negative opinions eh, if that's the case you may as well just turn afterdawn into a huge advertising board for all the tech companies so all the BAD points to the hardware/software can be covertly hidden from the public's eye.

constant fanboyism should not be tolerated i fully agree, but a negative opinion does not constitute "fanboy" behaviour.

fanboy definition from urban dictionary

Originally posted by link:

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2.
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like.
3. See fool or SEGA.
"If you don't worship SEGA and send them all your money and pay $500 for the copy of Panzer Dragon I'm selling on ebay then your obviously a Sony fanboy even though I've never heard you mention a single thing about Sony the entire five minutes I've known you." Said the SEGA Fanboy.

"Yeah but the SNES didn't have Blast Processing" Said the Sega fanboy.

"FF7 sucks" Said the SEGA Saturn fanboy.

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defending a company that utilises anti-consumer behaviour without accepting the fact and trying to play it down or conceal the fact, could also be considered fanboy behaviour, could it not!

as i already stated negative opinions do not equate to the behaviour you are describing Ryu77, only on the official forums like m$ and sony is that considered simply to stop the spread of the truth and not damage potential sales. as far as i'm aware afterdawn is not generating revenue from sony, m$, nitendo, philips, toshiba, amstrad, ect, and hopefully never will be at the whim of the revenue chain being pulled by a corporation like what happened to Gamespot and Jeff Gerstmann.

And as you have clearly stated yourself "It's simple! Don't participate in any conversation regarding the topic at hand" why answer comments you do not agree with?

"Zero Tolerance" in this case is pretty hard to maintain. Outright name-calling, deliberate flames and four-letter words etc. for example, are much easier to deal with. You get suspended for those.

The nonsense we see here is far more "grey" in nature. I try to be tolerant as do all the mods, but in this case I see a few making it very difficult for the many. I'm sorry guys, it's unfortunate but often the case.

I think this thread has gone far enough. Please feel free to begin another similar one if you'd like and we'll take it from there.

-- A_K --

Real quick....Some are lucky you addressed this Klingon and closed it before I got to it again. I was about to hand out some time off.

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