AfterDawn: Tech news

The Pirate Bay is under fire again

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 06 Sep 2008 18:55 User comments (98)

The Pirate Bay is under fire again The infamous torrent tracker The Pirate Bay is back in the news today, this time for refusing to take down a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year.
The photos are part of a larger collection of material that came from a police investigation into the case.

Niklas Jangestig, the father of the murdered children, pleaded with the admins of the site to have the pictures removed but Peter Sunde, one of the admins, refused.

“We don’t even want to them to remove the investigative material. But we don’t want there to be pictures of my dead children there,”
Jangestig said.

Sunde responded to the request with an email that said “that is one helluva gripe. No, No and again no.”

“I don’t think it’s our job to judge if something is ethical or unethical or what other people want to put out on the internet,”
added Sunde.

“People can express themselves and spread material they think is important, that’s one of the things we’re fighting for and if it’s then used for things which can be uncomfortable for some, so be it, but it’s more important that such a possibility exists than that it doesn’t exist,”
he finished.

We can be sure that this situation is not over.

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98 user comments

16.9.2008 19:24

Walking a fine line.

I would state my argument but I think I will keep it to myself and watch the post for a few days before I post anything.

26.9.2008 19:26

Mm...sounds like a bad scam to me, almost trying to make people hate pirate bay, for instance how does one acquire autopsy photo's, on children without a parental consent, makes me look and question the motives of the so called parents.

36.9.2008 19:28

the bay probably thought the complainer was a cop/newsman and thought we dont listen to you.

46.9.2008 19:30

In this case i really feel pirate bay is flat out wrong. It's sad that they won't honor this request.

56.9.2008 19:33

Quote:
The photos are part of a larger collection of material that came from a police investigation into the case.
if such was the case and if they where my children, hell would break loose on every police officer within the investigative unit.

66.9.2008 19:35

Originally posted by grkblood:
In this case i really feel pirate bay is flat out wrong. It's sad that they won't honor this request.
No, whats sad is why they got there in the first place

76.9.2008 19:39

This sounds like the police departments fault. Their inability to maintain a secure environment is what should be questioned here. It brings into question their level of competence in conducting an investigation.

86.9.2008 19:43
fgamer
Inactive

Oh boy, it probably would be a good idea to just take it down. Some things are just the right thing to do, and just put all the bullsh!t aside. Plus, TPB really doesn't need all this extra unnecessary headlines which only helps further the case of the MPAA, RIAA and other anti-PirateBay entities. Hopefully something like this doesn't further the ANTI-PirateBay cause. But I do think they should/should've just taken it down. Anyways, long live TPB!!

96.9.2008 19:50
jony218
Inactive

This puts the pirate bay on a different level, music/videos etc is one thing but pictures of dead children. You can't defend that. This might finally get them closed down if they don't play it right and do the right thing, maybe next time the pirate bay will defend child porn. This don't look good at all.

106.9.2008 20:00

I never minded the antics that pirate bay used, but this is an example of their arrogance, and devil may care demeanor. They dont care about unfair copyright laws, or helping create a fair playing field over digital media, they simply want to be rebels for the sake of their own vanity. and this example very well may be there downfall, I for one am emailing the admins there stating my displeasure and that I once supported their cause, and now I do not, I recommend anyone else unhappy with this story to email as well.

116.9.2008 20:03
Kerpalguy
Inactive

TPB went over the fine line of ethics with this one. Absolutely tasteless and in poor judgement. Maybe the time has come for TPB to be shut down for good.

126.9.2008 20:15

Anarchists R' Us.

136.9.2008 20:51

C'mon Pirate bay...

This isn't about censorship. This is about good taste and about respect for people's own privacy.

I lost a lot of respect for them.

146.9.2008 21:20
evnflow
Inactive

you know normally i am cheering pirate bay on for their determination to stand up to MPAA, etc...but this is tasteless of them to do..like most posts before me..i've lost a lot of respect for them..it would be very easy for them to take the uploaded file down..grow a heart and take it down

156.9.2008 21:36

Quote:
C'mon Pirate bay...

This isn't about censorship. This is about good taste and about respect for people's own privacy.

I lost a lot of respect for them.

Oh really, i guess the police don't give a shit about people's privacy, as the autopsy fell from there hands.

I still think its a ploy, to get people on TPB's bad side. and to some of your posts its working, this story has to many holes
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Sep 2008 @ 21:44

166.9.2008 21:38

Its Clear!

I am glad I am reading that people agree that these photos should be taken down. I also agree that the photos could not be released without consent. Now did the police do it without the fathers permission or did he sign a paper releasing the photos for whatever reason and not fully read what he was doing. Either way the photos should be removed and this should be investigated by the proper authority.

I remember when I was in Anatomy and Physiology class a few semesters back and we where shown autopsy photos of organs and parts of bodies but the faces where always blackened and at one point we where shown a slide of a deceased fetus. Now mind you these photos were taken with consent of all parties and they knew the photos would be used for teaching and medical advancement. Our professor was an ex corner and did all the autopsies and he was professional about everything. So it can be done just no in this manner and not to this extent. What would anyone want with these photos and what does TPB or the police have to gain from this bad publicity.

Again I am glad to see the wonderful people at AfterDawn have Morals.

176.9.2008 21:41

The nice/polite thing for TPB to do would definetly be to take the torrent down, but like others have stated this is a internal problem that should be dealt with by the Police Station. For one the parents most definetly could file a personal injury lawsuit against the police department, and two; who in there right mind would knowingly and willingly want to view autopsy photos of 2 small children??

186.9.2008 21:52

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=...F-8&sl=sv&tl=en

I can't imagine how horrible it would be to see pictures of your dead children being spread on the internet. But it seems that the pirate bay's admin's goal is "to let people communicate, exchange information and ideas, without being censored."

I understand that the admins are trying to follow their policy, but I still think it is very wrong not to remove the torrent. This isn't letting "people communicate, exchange information and ideas, without being censored," this is plain wrong. They should really consider in making that torrent an exception.

196.9.2008 21:58

first of all if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent.. second of all it isn't about material.. if it was a closed zip file and renamed.. no body would know S**T.. so some nut posted it.. pirate bay has removed zero torrents... from request from anyone.. why start now?.. and why are you looking up things on pirate websites anyways.. don't you have funerals to plan and attend.. im not trying to be a jerk.. but whoever downloads it is sick.. but thats not on us to judge.. it might have been wise to remove it.. but it might have seem as a sign of weakness in the eyes of MPAA/RIAA if it were the first torrent removed.

206.9.2008 22:09

lxfactor:

Your post made me think, and I realized that you are right. The fault is of the person who posted it, not The Pirate Bay. The one who should be asked to remove it is the user who posted it, not them.

And heck, maybe there are thousands of copies in rapidshare and megaupload already, if TPB removes it, nothing is going to change.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Sep 2008 @ 22:11

216.9.2008 22:11

lxfactor, you are ignorant. children can, and do die from several factors that have NOTHING to do with bad parenting, anything from cancer to parasitic infections, from weather conditions to war, its your ignorance that is a prime example of the same narrow, ignorant, probably young, outlook on things over at pirate bay, you are soooo wrong for saying that, and I hope one day, you will grow to understand.

226.9.2008 22:24

Quote:
first of all if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent
I second gsuscrazy's opinion. From a person who's family has dealt with two miscarriages your post hits my heart.

lxfactor, what would you say to a family whos' unborn baby has a malformed heart!? Would you say...
Quote:
...if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent

Yeah, a unborn baby with a heart defect, must be the parents.

In closing, lxfactor....think before you post dumbass.

236.9.2008 23:10
atomicxl
Inactive

Originally posted by samus250:
lxfactor:

Your post made me think, and I realized that you are right. The fault is of the person who posted it, not The Pirate Bay. The one who should be asked to remove it is the user who posted it, not them.

And heck, maybe there are thousands of copies in rapidshare and megaupload already, if TPB removes it, nothing is going to change.
But the pirate bay runs the system.

It doesn't matter if its on other places. To me thats like crack dealers who use the argument, "someone would sell it anyways." Thats not an excuse. Let someone else destroy your community. Don't jump for joy to be the one feeding poison to your neighbors.

The Pirate Bay, kept alive by theft and dead children. These are the people afterdawn users praise and worship.

246.9.2008 23:43

What they are doing is tasteless. Fuck ehm, so many better trackers out there. Sure content wise others may not be able to compare, but at least there community isn't run by people who think children are okay to be watched when they are getting an autopsy! fucking morons. Sure good for them to fight the MPPA and RIAA, but this is to much.

257.9.2008 0:02

Originally posted by lxfactor:
first of all if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent..

You sir are an ass. My girlfriend just lost her daughter and it had absolutely nothing to do with parenting skills. Tragic things happen all the time to children. I pray nothing ever happens to yours.

I for one will never use TPB again because of this. I have lost all respect for them.

267.9.2008 0:30

The only thing that I really agree with is that there are too many missing facts in this story. Most significantly, how did the documents get out in the open in the first place? Second of all, who in the world shared them? I find it odd that with all the press this story has received, not once have I seen even an alias for the user who actually uploaded the torrent in the first place.

I don't think it's right for things like this to be spread, but it seems like people are using this as an excuse to point a finger at TPB, while completely ignoring the person(s) actually responsible for violating this family's privacy in the first place. Why aren't authorities taking down all of the IP addresses in that torrent's swarm and going after the real sickos?

Finally, even if TPB complies and takes down the offensive material, what's to stop the sick people who shared it from doing so again - perhaps in an even more grotesque manner? Until the people who are ultimately responsible are stopped, it would seem that TPB is just a means to an end for them.

277.9.2008 0:31

Quote:
I for one will never use TPB again because of this. I have lost all respect for them.
I see it the other way around. I loss faith in the tastleless human who didn't see the problem in uploading this to a public website. The Pirate Bay has always said the won't remove this/blah blah and yes this is something that should be removed but with lawsuits looming I don't think it's the best time to change there stance of torrent removal.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 0:53



"Some people have no damn sense." - Nephilim, March 27 2007 @ 18:08

287.9.2008 1:20

I sent the Bay a letter.

The Pirate Bay:

I am concerned about a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year that I heard about on http://www.afterdawn.com/news/.

The photos can be considered depictions of child abuse post mortem.

Removal of the photographs of the dead children would be in the best interests of the Pirate bay and in good taste.

Anonymous

297.9.2008 2:12

One really negative effect of making this incident wide spread is that people who didn't know about the pictures being posted on TPB might become curious and download them.

So in retrospect, this article may have the opposite effect from what the parent's want. (opposite as in more people downloading/viewing the photos).

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 2:13

307.9.2008 2:35
varnull
Inactive

What a load of crap there is in this topic.. Nothing is wrong in posting information.. just because YOU may not like it doesn't mean others should be censored to fall into line with your personal choices.

There is more to this than just some pictures, and child abuse post mortem.. what garbage. An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.

The content is legally available and public domain in Sweden. I suggest people get clued up on the facts before they continue with this hysterical "protect children" ranting which just proves how media brainwashed you are.

Originally posted by illunatic:
TPB is all of us. Don't you guys get that? TPB is not a person or group that is "allowing" these files to be shared. TPB is an impartial tool which is allowing humanity to operate without interfering; despite the flaws we continue to exhibit through our actions.

TPB is merely a tool. It is up to us as *individuals* to accept the responsibility for how we use this tool. To expect that everyone will use it the same way you do will inevitably bring you more disappointment because it won't end with these pictures. Remove them and something else will appear that will piss you off. It will only be a matter of time before you are the one who is pissing others off and the lynch mob comes for you.

http://suprbay.org/showthread.php?p=197087

There it is.. YOU may not like the fact that this information is available.. but YOU don't have the right to say it shouldn't be available. Information is just that.. information. It is impartial.

Demanding the removal of information of any kind is against the principles of freedom of information which I'm sure we all hold very dear. Those rights bring with them responsibilities which we have to accept and learn to deal with. If you don't like this sort of thing then DON'T LOOK AT IT, but don't tell me that I can't.

317.9.2008 2:56

Quote:

There is more to this than just some pictures, and child abuse post mortem.. what garbage. An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.



well if i dug up your recently deceased grandmother or aunt, and had sexual intercourse with her, im commiting a post mortem crime, so there can be forms of criminal abuse. so do not talk of things you do not know.



varnell, you seem to think that this is some sort of legal battle we are declaring, its not, its about taste, and lack thereof, think of it like this..

say you are a mildly conservative person, with religious beliefs, and
your favorite show decides to turn everyone gay, and have every episode focus on darwinism and evolution, you are going to protest what they are doing, and boycott them...

and that is what we are doing...we do not condone their actions, so in turn, we are abandoning them, and informing them, and others of that action.

go ahead, stand up for them, be their cheerleader, im glad you support showing someones child being cut up, im glad you endorse all the sickos high fiving each other, and laughing at the corpses of these poor children being cut up, when a father asks to remove the torrent of his childrens autopsy, and you are so shallow as to deny him that right, then your scum, and frankly those that defend the sites right to refuse a grieving father is also scum IMHO
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 2:58

327.9.2008 3:17
varnull
Inactive

Quote:
well if i dug up your recently deceased grandmother or aunt, and had sexual intercourse with her, im commiting a post mortem crime, so there can be forms of criminal abuse. so do not talk of things you do not know.
And if you did that it would just show how sick you are.. It wouldn't offend the dead person because they would have no opinion!

Quote:
go ahead, stand up for them, be their cheerleader, im glad you support showing someones child being cut up, im glad you endorse all the sickos high fiving each other, and laughing at the corpses of these poor children being cut up, when a father asks to remove the torrent of his childrens autopsy, and you are so shallow as to deny him that right, then your scum, and frankly those that defend the sites right to refuse a grieving father is also scum IMHO
You miss the point completely.. take your religious and moralistic BS somewhere else where you might get your half baked ideas listened to.
Whether I agree or disagree with this content is irrelevant. I haven't even said what I personally think about the actual content.. so you are making assumptions abut me based on YOUR prejudice and ingrained morals (usually sign of a hypocrite hahaha)

So you are saying because YOU don't like it it should be taken down.. Hi mr censor.. Who made YOU the guardian of my sense of decency.. next you will be saying "I don't like xxxxxx because it is offensive to MY SENSE of decency, so nobody else should be allowed to see it either.. You represent the tyranny of evil men, whether you like it or not. YOU are the cheerleader for the mob. YOU are the person who will accuse and abuse unfairly. I just defend the right to information. Whether that information is seen by people like you as offensive I care not, that isn't the point and idiots like YOU had better get used to it!!

TPB have a very good point.. As long as the content is not illegal there are no grounds for removal. This content may not be to everybody's tastes, but it is not illegal and must stay. NOBODY is forcing anybody too look (unlike the German people who were forced to look at the death camps in 1945 to see the extent of their crime)

FYI.. before any other retarded f--k starts ranting at me.. I am a parent, and IF this was about my children I may not like it being posted, but I would not be demanding that it be taken down as it is publicly available information which has been legally obtained. As such I would defend the rights of the person posting it to share the information in the common public good.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 3:20

337.9.2008 4:08

Quote varnull

“An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.”

Your opinions on the dead not having feelings is something that is your belief and your opinion and you want to tear ours down and say that you are correct and that we should all fall in line with you or leave.
You are saying we should.
“mean others should be censored to fall into line with your personal choices. “

If you can use and convey your beliefs,views and opinions then others should have the same right as you and not be talked down to in a harsh manner.

Quote varnull
“An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.”

Hence the word professionals

The content is legally available and public domain in Sweden”

Prove it

You posted this link where only a handful of people agreed with what you say. And there is nothing within this link to back up anything you have claimed in this post. So you want to continue to force your views and be little and talk down to people.

http://suprbay.org/showthread.php?p=197087

Quote varnull

“Demanding the removal of information of any kind is against the principles of freedom of information which I'm sure we all hold very dear.”

I suggest you read the first paragraph of the information provided in this link:

http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/en/about/e...information.htm

“In general, person identified information can be collected and stored only after the explicit informed consent of the individual.”

Further in the outline

“There are limitations on how and when the data can be used, and there are rules about which authorities, organisations and/or individuals that can get access to the data. According to these rules, person identified health data can only be used for
1.research,
2.statistics, and
3.follow-up of health care.
The  principles of public disclosure and confidentiality”
If we all hold them so dear “ principles of freedom of information” then look at our HIPPA laws as well.


Do what you want but don't come here and put down people and call people names and force your views and belief's and opinions upon people and tell them that the only ones that matter are yours. If you cant accept to read and argue in a civil manner with other peoples belief's and views and opinions in a calm and intelligent manner as others have before you then maybe you need to leave this specific forum and return when you can act intelligent and carry and intelligent conversation with other human begins.

P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.

347.9.2008 4:20

wow i didnt read one comment backing tpb. I dont want to see the pics of this guys dead children, but im all for pirate bays decision.

stay out of it unless forced by law. let people share what they want. More respect for pirate bay, much more than before even.

357.9.2008 4:22

I really do like some of TPB previous antics. Bashing the MPAA and watnot but I really do think they should take it down. Maybe the Swedish have different views on whats acceptable or not but I don't think it's right for them to basically tell him to sod off. They could have delt with it a little better.

Although I am guessing there is far worst content out there on the net.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 4:25

367.9.2008 5:05

Originally posted by lxfactor:
first of all if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent.. second of all it isn't about material.. if it was a closed zip file and renamed.. no body would know S**T.. so some nut posted it.. pirate bay has removed zero torrents... from request from anyone.. why start now?.. and why are you looking up things on pirate websites anyways.. don't you have funerals to plan and attend.. im not trying to be a jerk.. but whoever downloads it is sick.. but thats not on us to judge.. it might have been wise to remove it.. but it might have seem as a sign of weakness in the eyes of MPAA/RIAA if it were the first torrent removed.
I really don't like you. If this site allowed, I'd call you immature names.

You should grow up and do some living in the world.

377.9.2008 5:29

This has nothing to do with censorship but taste......This is totally classless on TP part.

387.9.2008 5:38
varnull
Inactive

Quote:
P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.
I have prick.. I have sought out the Sewdish laws and quotes on TPB (where I am a member BTW.. unlike 99% of the other people posting in this topic.

ALL this information is available from the Swedish authorities for a small fee to cover printing and postage. All that is happening here is the information is being distributed in a more accessible way.

Now about your irrelevant misquoting of laws.. Those only apply to THE LIVING who may be harmed by disclosure of information. The dead have no such rights.

You think we should allow a free for all abuse session?.. I suggest "junior member" YOU check your facts before you try to correct and censor your elders and seniors!

Whay about the videos there of American soldiers being beheaded, or saddam hussiens execution?? not a whimper.. some pictures and an autopsy report and all hell breaks lose.. get some perspective n00bs.. this is the real world and it may not be what you like it to be.. but it is what we have.

According to certain people only the views THEY hold are valid.. any other opinion brands somebody a sicko.. Enjoy your big brother religion/bigot/politician/newspaper/mob and big business run world you are creating.. You don't own me f--kers.. and you aren't going to change my opinions by abusing me.. I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.

YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONTENT THEN DON'T LOOK AT IT... end of story.. This stuff mey not be tasteful, but it is not illegal. TPB are perfectly right to keep it up there.. censor one legal thing and where next.. everything that MAY offend somebody?

You can stick your USA laws right where the sun don't shine, because they are not relevant in a global context.. They are not relevant when it comes to this subject. USA does not own the internet or the world just yet!! asnd we are so glad it doesn't because we would only get sanitised church approves crap if it did!

A little point about true freedom..

Freedom means the right to make your own choices
Freedom means the right to make your own dicisions
freedom means the right to hold your own views
Freedom means the right to speak your mind without the fear of reprisals from do gooders and repressive bigots who come touting laws and restrictions.
Freedom means the right to look at, or not look at anything you choose.
Freedom means the right to access the information you want to make those choices and form those opinions.
Freedom involves responsibility and understanding that you will see things you may not like along with the things you do.
Freedom means you do not have the right to say what should and should not be available. It means that you treat people with the respect you would hope to receive as a free thinking adult capable of making your own decisions.

This is about a lot more than a few pictures.. it is a sign of the general decline into sheep that is being fostered by the state controlled media across the world.. You people need to learn to think for yourselves before shouting down and attacking people who understand the responsibilities which come with freedom.

Remember this.. Under the laws of every country I know it is impossible to invade the privacy of, slander or libel the dead.

I will support TPB over any kid trying to sound big on afterdawn because they are a force for freedom, whereas the censors and the "take it down" ranters are a force for compliance with those who would restrict and refuse access to public domain information..

You people make me sick. You are the same mob who don't like to hear your soldiers are getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan because of inadequate leadership and equipment. Would you like that information suppressed too? How about taking all the names off war memorials while we are at it..

You can find out all about the dead.. some countries try to make money out of information about the deceased since 1970.. but really as information about the dead from before that date is freely available that also is wrong. Public documents are public documents.. live with it.

This is my last comment on the matter.. I will leave it to you ranters and censors to carry on with your wailing and head holding now....
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 5:42

397.9.2008 6:06
Efreedom
Inactive

Many people comment. Only a few make valid arguments.

What is the point of ANY material? Who gets to play judge and jury demanding there be a point to information? That information be justified to a criteria that is acceptable to.... who? You?

The point of the material is beside the point.

You may need to find a site that has a moral code it follows that suits the code you like. One that censors material unless it meets your needs for material being *acceptable.*

Where does it STOP? Piratebay already has a stopping point.... the point at which it becomes illegal. You're demanding it go beyond that. I ask you again, why THIS particular instance above all others?

I'm sorry you feel the principle of freedom of information is so worthless, but thankful that how you feel about it doesn't matter.

407.9.2008 6:37
sgtwesker
Inactive

i also belive that piratebay.org is wrong for not removing the pics. i have a child due to be born soon, and if somthing ever happened to it i shure as hell wouldnt want any pics of any kind on the internet for people to see.

417.9.2008 7:06
13thHouR
Inactive

Good for the Pirate Bay, freedom of speech is every humans right and what we should be fighting for, removing these images would be censorship. BTW child porn is ALWAYS removed for The Pirate Bay.


i know this is a touchy subject but ppl have the choice NOT to look.

see i used to visit www.Ogrish.com until the powers that be shut it down because too many american soldiers being killed were uploaded to the site.

now you are just redirected to propaganda machine LiveLeak.com which is moderated to happy none american upsetting material.

This is life, nannying adults is control and not acceptable

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 7:08

427.9.2008 7:21

There are two sides to my thinking there, one is they really should remove that content out of human decency. Its not about picking and choosing what is morally right or not, its about being decent human beings. I love the pirate bay but am looking at them in a different light. if its not all about money and they have a real love for torrents and the people who use then they should remove the content.

the other is that this is illegal downloading and who is anyone to try and take the higher ground. I am leaning towards the former

You have a good point varnel, if you dont like the content then you have the freedom of choice not to look. But people also have the freedom to express their opinions on the topic without being attacked by you, and before you attack me also I am just exercising my freedom of opinion and have not said a bad word against you (as tempting as it was lol). I personally dont think that people (in general) are smart enough to exercise all these rights you got so excited and talked about. they need rules and guidelines to keep them in check, this is not a perfect world. I think the pirate bay needs to vet certain content, not all as that would be ridiculous but just things which are a cause for concern with people such as this. ofc with torrents there will be content people don't agree with but if you give total freedom to people they it will be taken to far and when will it stop, there are sick people out there (some of whom have commented on this very topic from what I have read) when will we say stop, when it is to late I guess.

Its just a little hard to not think that tbh have just washed their hands of a touchy subject to shake the responsibility of it. However they aren't in control of what people upload so it isn't really their fault, not directly anyway.

this kind of thing may not bother those who aren't particularly religious hence the differences in opinions. I am not a strict and devout Christian but i was brought up on Christian morals and values which is a definite influence on the opinion I have expressed here.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 8:01

437.9.2008 9:37
advent
Inactive

Regardless of all the arguments, for or against , the decent thing to have done would have been to remove the article.
As for TPB itself, i have'nt used it for ages-there are far better trackers out there.

447.9.2008 10:25
varnull
Inactive

Hi Rosetta.. but.. people are not making a valid point, they are screaming and ranting like the herd they have been trained to be "Censor..remove.. ban"

The Pirate Bay is the embodiment of a philosophy. If information is legal then it is in the common interest to share it. It doesn't matter what the information is. In that they are in line with the more progressive parts of society which say you shouldn't necessarily turn your eyes from what is shocking or offends you, that you should look and learn from it.

There is no "decent" thing to do.. removing the link is against the philosophy of free and open access to information. To demand it is removed is the indecent thing as it requires censorship of information. It doesn't matter why people have decided to download this information, that is up to them. I will not judge people who chose to access this kind of material. Also I will draw no opinion about why the person who sourced and shared it did so, again that is a matter for them alone not for us. we know nothing about them, or what their motives are for sharing this content.

I'm pleased to see that you have thought about the subject and come to your conclusions based on what you believe, but you must understand that it is not for us to say what is right or wrong or what should or should not be available. Once you start using the "decency" and "offensive" excuses then the floodgates are open for every other group of extremists to start demanding content be removed.. and all because they don't like it, not because it is illegal or harming or invasive.
This is a good torrent.. it has raised a subject normally buried and shown lots of people for the censors and ranters for the "common good" that they really are.
They don't speak for me, I hope they don't speak for you, and I'm so glad that from the view of TPB owners they don't speak for or influence them either.

It doesn't matter what we think, because TPB admins have already spoken on the matter.. and it stays.
As a member of EFF I agree with them and support the decision not to remove the link, and I don't care what assumptions anybody here wants to make about me from that statement.

I think this subject has run it's course.. there is nothing to be learned or gained here, except an insight into people who believe they have the right by demanding things be removed to speak for us and to "protect" us from things they don't like.

457.9.2008 10:27

Where do you draw the line if you start having one or two people filtering? I see on TV all the time of real dead people, usually blurring out their faces, but still just as bad. But, Pirate Bay is an organization that believes all information should be freely available, and I would say on the top of their list is ESPECIALLY any info coming out of a government agency such as police files. So if they aren't filtering info that could be potentially "owned" or copyrighted, they certainly shouldn't start filtering info that's probably in or going to be in or should be in public records.

467.9.2008 10:53

I understand everyone's frustration at the content and the right to post. WHat if it were a different subject matter that we all were offended by? A picture of a toddler's cleft surgery gone awry? Pictures of the unibomber's aftermath of all the small children blasted to pieces? The victims jumping for their lives at the WTC?
What i am trying to say is that it really doesn't matter what the topic, picture or discussion is posted about. The fact of the matter is that it is posted and life goes on.Some will get pissed, hurt and some will like it or some could give a shit. The Pirate bay is just one of the many outlets that allow us to send this info up for the whole world to see. If it were at a different P2P site we would be all over them. Don't knock the collecter, look at the user. The collecter is there for all of us and we use it as we need and never complain. As a parent my heart goes out to this man and his family. Can't say that i feel your pain, an i hope i never have to feel that type of pain. However, content that we do not want to see nor hear is simply dealt with by clicking that thing that use use daily to surf the net! it's that simple.

Enjoy life!

477.9.2008 10:57

This really all boils down to who thinks of this either logically or emotionally. Logically, there is no reason to take them down. The pictures are part of an overall investigation and serve its purpose in that way. While emotionally/morally, it can be seen as wrong. To post pictures of a fathers young children being opened up is really messed up, especially after he pleaded to have them taken down.

Really, TPB is not responsible for what users post. But they should step in and take it down. I'm all for trying to prove a point, but in cases like these, where it is a father and his children, I don't think your point can really justify the means.

487.9.2008 11:07
varnull
Inactive

Originally posted by 2IQ:
TPB is not responsible for what users post. But they should step in and take it down.
Way to go.. one for my "how to contradict yourself in one sentence" award.

They have no responsibility for the content posted.. by the same token they have no responsibility to take it down.

497.9.2008 11:16

That's why I said I think they should. But if they don't, so be it. Since they aren't responsible, they don't have to listen to anyone's opinions. And they don't, which is fine.

507.9.2008 11:33

WOW seems to be alot of anger on this topic. I wanted to tune in on it a little bit, but not for anger reasons. I for one am proud of Pirate Bay for not taking these pictures away. Now before you post your anger for me please read the entire post....
I believe for the pictures to be out in the openn is totally wrong. And the people that are looking at them and downloading them are rather twisted. I for one will not be searching for these.
But yet there are rotten tomatoes out the that post pictures of autopsys' all the time. Thats the base of several websites.
If Pirate Bay were to take these pictures down it would go against what they are popular for, Standing up against authorities, wheter it be the RIAA, MPAA, some father that is upset cause his kids died and somebody leaked his childrens photos to the masses.
If P.B. were to take these down it would prove that people can stop them from allowing the puplic information. Although these were and should be kept private, some idiot released them.
Do I believe these pictues are wrong...yes
Do I believe that P.B. should take these away from people...no
It would be censorship.
Theres a talk show host (shock Jock) here that has had a great quote, which he probly stole from an other.
"If you don't like what I talk about, change the channel"
If you don't like the pictures, don't download them. Don't censor the sick folk that wanna see them.(at least sick in my opinion)

I hope this all make sense.
LD
* new edit below
If you want censorship, go to a country that is run under communism.
You want morals, join a church (ok well jaded morals)
This is the world, this is reality.
The facts are 2 toddlers died, and had a autopsy some to find the reasons behind their untimely death, pictures were taken, those pictures were released to the internet, people downloaded those pictures.
Who are we to tell people "no those are wrong to look at"
Just because we "view" this as wrong doesn't mean we should keep others from viewing them.
Little of topic, but if history serves me correct.....
It used to be "wrong"
for nudity to be on TV
for murder to be on tv
for porno graphic images to be taken
for certain types of religion to be practiced
for people other then caucasian to do any thing
for presidents to cheat get hummers from ladies other then their wives
for people to smoke
for people to drink
for women to vote
in some countries women still aren't "supposed" to show their faces

These are all things that were at one point "wrong" and socially unacceptable. I truly hope that these pictures never become socially acceptable, but who am I to not "allow" these things.
I mean comon now, theres a store down the road where I can buy salvia, water bongs, glass pipes, and rolling paper. Next door to that I can buy whips, chains, handcuffs, sexual pleaseing devices, lotians, and provacative clothing.
Now years ago (less then 10) this store would have never been allowed, and in some cities it still isn't.

How does this relate??????

CENSORSHIP
Don't allow it and will not support any sort of censorship.
What about the kids you ask.
As a parent I am in full control of what my daughter does, and see's.
She only watches T.V. in the family room.
I know all of her friends and have personally visited every one of the houses she ever goes to.
So don't try to use that excuss either.
It's our job as parents to watch and care for OUR children.
Not everybody elses

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 11:53

517.9.2008 12:51

Why would anyone upload those kinds of pics to a torrent tracker anyway?

527.9.2008 13:07

Quote:
They have no responsibility for the content posted.. by the same token they have no responsibility to take it down.
Then why do they remove child porn?

You know, I'm not going to read everything that people have had to say, but in my opinion, this is not a matter of censorship, legality, nor a conflict with TPB's policy of not removing content (when it suits them), but a matter of respect which the whole e-party involved has not shown.

The documents involved, including the photos, are freely available via Swedish police, as set down by Swedish law (or so I understand it). For them to be openly available on one of [if not the] largest public trackers is another matter completely, showing a complete lack of respect for those involved outside of the geared up "free the internet, content sharing FTW" junkies. Furthermore, for Sunde to show such stubbornness, not even replying with a sense of courtesy and explaining their stance on the situation (bar the disgruntled statement issued on their blog), he has lost all credibility where I am concerned. And after all, this is the internet; it's not like if I don't look hard enough I couldn't find the files elsewhere by now.

On the other side of the e-coin, and how a friend of mine so lovingly put it, we do not live in a cotton wool covered world and sh@t like this happens every day (and most likely on a larger scale too) so my personal feelings towards the individuals involved are null and void, I just think that the complete lack of compassion shown by parties involved is below par, on this particular occasion.

Feel free to rip me a new one!

Quote:
I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.
*Ducks for cover!* :D
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 13:31


537.9.2008 13:25

Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.

Prove your point.




Quote:
Quote:
P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.
I have prick.. I have sought out the Sewdish laws and quotes on TPB (where I am a member BTW.. unlike 99% of the other people posting in this topic.

ALL this information is available from the Swedish authorities for a small fee to cover printing and postage. All that is happening here is the information is being distributed in a more accessible way.

Now about your irrelevant misquoting of laws.. Those only apply to THE LIVING who may be harmed by disclosure of information. The dead have no such rights.

You think we should allow a free for all abuse session?.. I suggest "junior member" YOU check your facts before you try to correct and censor your elders and seniors!

Whay about the videos there of American soldiers being beheaded, or saddam hussiens execution?? not a whimper.. some pictures and an autopsy report and all hell breaks lose.. get some perspective n00bs.. this is the real world and it may not be what you like it to be.. but it is what we have.

According to certain people only the views THEY hold are valid.. any other opinion brands somebody a sicko.. Enjoy your big brother religion/bigot/politician/newspaper/mob and big business run world you are creating.. You don't own me f--kers.. and you aren't going to change my opinions by abusing me.. I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.

YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONTENT THEN DON'T LOOK AT IT... end of story.. This stuff mey not be tasteful, but it is not illegal. TPB are perfectly right to keep it up there.. censor one legal thing and where next.. everything that MAY offend somebody?

You can stick your USA laws right where the sun don't shine, because they are not relevant in a global context.. They are not relevant when it comes to this subject. USA does not own the internet or the world just yet!! asnd we are so glad it doesn't because we would only get sanitised church approves crap if it did!

A little point about true freedom..

Freedom means the right to make your own choices
Freedom means the right to make your own dicisions
freedom means the right to hold your own views
Freedom means the right to speak your mind without the fear of reprisals from do gooders and repressive bigots who come touting laws and restrictions.
Freedom means the right to look at, or not look at anything you choose.
Freedom means the right to access the information you want to make those choices and form those opinions.
Freedom involves responsibility and understanding that you will see things you may not like along with the things you do.
Freedom means you do not have the right to say what should and should not be available. It means that you treat people with the respect you would hope to receive as a free thinking adult capable of making your own decisions.

This is about a lot more than a few pictures.. it is a sign of the general decline into sheep that is being fostered by the state controlled media across the world.. You people need to learn to think for yourselves before shouting down and attacking people who understand the responsibilities which come with freedom.

Remember this.. Under the laws of every country I know it is impossible to invade the privacy of, slander or libel the dead.

I will support TPB over any kid trying to sound big on afterdawn because they are a force for freedom, whereas the censors and the "take it down" ranters are a force for compliance with those who would restrict and refuse access to public domain information..

You people make me sick. You are the same mob who don't like to hear your soldiers are getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan because of inadequate leadership and equipment. Would you like that information suppressed too? How about taking all the names off war memorials while we are at it..

You can find out all about the dead.. some countries try to make money out of information about the deceased since 1970.. but really as information about the dead from before that date is freely available that also is wrong. Public documents are public documents.. live with it.

This is my last comment on the matter.. I will leave it to you ranters and censors to carry on with your wailing and head holding now....

547.9.2008 13:37

Quote:
Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.

Prove your point.
It's posts like this that have nothing to add; stop bouncing off other people!



557.9.2008 14:30
H08
Inactive

you know im getting really tired of viewing articles about the MPAA or The Pirate Bay Because I know varmull will be there posting some comment on how Its Great That The Pirate Bay Allows Pictures Of Dead Kids on There Site or How Bad The MPAA IS For Suing Somebody.

Varmull Please Stop, your Reminding Me Of The Guy who Went Crazy on blu-ray and Sony Articles and got suspended from doing it.

Ohh And Any Human Being That Has A Heart Would Understandd Why The Pics Shouldnt Be Up, I Dont Know Why You Would Want To See Some Dead Kids Anyway

567.9.2008 15:17

Why don't you read all the post and see that I was going back and forth with this person who posted.
So why don't you stop with your BS and read all the post and give some form of input that has to do with the topic.

See no one person in here can prove that the dead do not have these rights in Sweden. Only mindless babble and complaints.

I on the other hand provided viable information from Sweden and an official website.




Quote:
Quote:
Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.

Prove your point.
It's posts like this that have nothing to add; stop bouncing off other people!

577.9.2008 15:31

Sure thing Jackass! Or, why don't you try reading my post and see which side of the fence I'm on?

I guess that won't change the fact that I'm anti post-tards.

~ Typo Edit ~

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 15:32


587.9.2008 15:50

Is it me our an I dealing with the most unintelligent person in the world.

Name calling, WoW , I feel like I am back on the play ground in grade school.

Speaking of school why don't you go back and learn something and how to support your answers and have arguments and discussions in an intelligent manner.

So I bid you a good day sir/madame and hope that some day you grow out of the childish name calling and can talk in a civil manner.

Originally posted by Ripper:
Sure thing Jackass! Or, why don't you try reading my post and see which side of the fence I'm on?

I guess that won't change the fact that I'm anti post-tards.

~ Typo Edit ~
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 15:52

597.9.2008 16:03

Are you kidding me?

Was I wrong to presume that because you were arguing with varnull that you had conflicting views with her? And that my views may coincide with yours, hence my suggesting you should re-read my post before you accuse me of getting on your back?

Speaking of intelligence, your manner of posting doesn't suggest to me that you are of any superiority over my good self in that area whatsoever.

You really need to find somewhere else to take your insecurities!

607.9.2008 17:16

ok usually i am all for TPB and its causes but on this matter i tend to agree with the other side. I feel its the pirate bays responsibility to at least police their own internet traffic in a way that they know what gets uploaded to their site and if its appropraite. In my book child porn and murdered pics and things along those lines are truely not what we want to have access to.

Torrent sites are yes for pic files and vids and music etc... but it has to be at least classified as the govt classifys what we see or choose to see with ratings soo we can make an informed choice.

617.9.2008 21:12

I ain't no mod.....but....
Lets settle it down. I'd hate to see people get their hands slapped for open discussions. Let's be adult about this.

627.9.2008 21:39

By the laws of the country they're in (and in fact, just about every country), THE DAMN TORRENT IS LEGAL.

If you don't like the fact, and you live in Sweden (or whereever TPB has their servers now - lol), then either get on your government's collective asses to change the laws or shut the hell up!

I also think it's tasteless to post the damn autopsies on TPB. So what? I also think Barry Manilow is tasteless, yet I support peoples' rights to listen to his crappy music. "Tasteless" does not equal "illegal".

There are far, far too many torrents posted every day on TPB for anyone to truly vet, even if they wanted to. Now, if someone complains about a specific torrent, and it is shown to be illegal (by their country's laws), guess what? TPB removes the damn torrent! This is why kiddie porn, which is illegal in nearly every country, IS removed, on request and also by the staff when they notice it.

637.9.2008 22:00

i choose Freedom!
If you dont like it then go back to your cages!

647.9.2008 22:00

TPB are a bunch of hypocrites. Their shtick on defying the corporate media companies seemed to be their primary cause. But now they are totally defying the wishes of a private citizen which makes TPB a bunch of scum. I wonder whose privacy are TPB going to invade next. I wonder if those pedophiles at TPB are masturbating to those photos. TPB will be irrelevant and three years.

657.9.2008 22:14

Um, mfgnet, how does "defying the wishes of a private citizen" make TPB "scum"..? If some "private citizen" wants you to stick your wanker in a meat grinder, are you scum for defying them? They're just applying their principles uniformly, whether it involves public or private entities. Sounds rather impartial and non-hypocritical to me!

As for them being pedophiles, how exactly do you derive that? They remove kiddie porn when notified; can YOU vet thousands upon thousands of torrents each day, especially considering (since they do NOT host the actual data) they'd have to d/l each damn torrent themselves? The answer, in case you're an idiot, is "no".

Apparently you're also not aware that these very same images are publicly available,, for a small fee to cover costs, from the government itself. In other words, it's already in the public domain, AND is legal. If you don't like that, I reiterate: either get active in politics and change the laws in the country it's hosted in, or shut the hell up.

I found your post offensive, but I also am completely commited to your right to both make that post, AND ignore anything I have to say about it; after all, you broke no laws by posting it. Can you say the same? Will you give a crap when the stormtroopers come to MY door because I said or did something uncomplimentary, but legal, about/to the government?! I sincerely doubt it, and governments all over the world LOVE sheeple who are exactly that way.

Edit --> Damn space bar ;p

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Sep 2008 @ 22:16

667.9.2008 22:27

to Varnull

this is my last post on the subject as well, further communication on the matter should be done via private messages., DO NOT misconstrue someones request to take down an item as censorship, and DO NOT misconstrue my statements of comparison as my personal beliefs, I was showing you COMPARATIVE SCENARIOS, you can Google the term if you do not understand it, you have sat here ranting and raving about whats right and wrong, and how everyone opposed to this decision is a Censor and so on, its a point of view, about decency..and if you read what i typed you would have understood my views, and that we are simply not going to support TPB, this is a very common view it seems, so deal with it, the world wont bend to your opinionated argument, it doesn't mean that the earth will stop spinning.


I remember when dinosaurs roamed the land
I remember when thinkin the earth is flat was cool...
but most of all...i remember when the Apple ruled the schools...GO NUMBER MUNCHERS!!!

678.9.2008 1:00

how sickening and insensitive. they were CHILDREN, robbed of their innocent lives, which are now being gawped at by idiots who for some reason think it's ok to look at pictures of somebody else's dead children.

sod freedom of speech and all that other immature anarchistic rebel tripe, they are pictures of somebody's DEAD CHILDREN.

grow up and stop living in a dream world.

take the pictures OFF.

i used to think the pirate bay guys were ok and wished the best for them when they got in a fix, but i will boycott the site full stop, and if they get busted, they deserve it for this one.

if that was MY children being distributed via pb, i'd track the idiots down myself and post 'entertaining and informative' pictures of THEIR fate on pb... it wouldn't be pretty...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Sep 2008 @ 1:02

688.9.2008 1:07

don't you think the parents have suffered enough??

we cannot comprehend unless we have been there...

698.9.2008 1:38

Again, those pictures are already in the public domain, and can be acquired for a nominal fee to cover postage/copying of the material directly from the Swedish government. If you don't believe me, fine. I actually called the Swedish embassy (I live not far from Washington, D.C., so it was a local call), and they verified this FACT for me. You can do the same damn thing, so scream all you like, it's still quite true.

Your rage is wasted; even the Swedish government, apparently, thinks so. In fact, in the US, you can get exactly the same type of information (yes, pictures and all) about most police cases and autopsies, unless they're under intentional media blackout, which happens a lot with cases still under active investigation.

You may find freedom of speech to be "immature anarchistic rebel tripe", and, in fact, you're free to do so. You can thank the Founding Fathers of the US (assuming you're FROM the US - lol; thank whomever if not)for your freedom to do so. They sure as hell didn't seem to find the subject to be "immature" at all!

So, it's not ok for future doctors/police/coroners/etc. - you have NO IDEA who downloads the damn torrent - to look at these pictures, eh? So, it's only ok for them to view the fresh corpses..? You know, by your exact logic, it was irresponsible and immature to show the world pictures of the Nazi atrocities at Buchenwald and Auschwitz, or of the Oklahoma City bombing (yup, they showed pictures of dead children; GASP)! Plenty of dead, innocent babies there, as well; where's your outrage for that?! A little Googling will find ALL of that (and a lot more =/ ), and guess what? It's LEGAL.

I rarely take so much pleasure in throwing a BS line back in someone's face: Grow up and stop living in a dream world.

708.9.2008 1:41
susieqbbb
Inactive

Here is what i find funny..

These pictures Are apart of a investigation right. And in police hands right. So then i take it the police would have had to upload the images.

Right???

Stupid Really stupid..

If the cops where the only ones with the images then the police uploaded them.

718.9.2008 1:47

Well, actually, the cops (as part of the government in Sweden in general) will give out this information, as required by Swedish law, to ANYONE who pays the required fee(s). It takes a direct court order for them to be allowed to do otherwise!

The logic behind this (assuming the low-level embassy staffer I spoke with wasn't full of poo) is that crimes that are kept secret:
- Are more likely to be repeated, because the public isn't aware of them.
- Tend to hinder police investigations.
- Cost MONEY to keep secret.

The main exception is cases of "national security". It's a bit easier (but not very much so) to stop distribution of similar material in the US...

728.9.2008 2:43

ok bozobub, many fair points there; fine, you've obviously put a lot of energy and research into this subject, thank you for taking the time.

as a female with some at least compassion i see it more as a personal case from the parent's point of view, so unfortunately much of what you say is irrelevant to my comment: who downloads this stuff, if it's legal, other places i can get it, that freedom of speech is a very big deal (of course...............). i don't care about that, jesus, i just got home from a ten hour day.

this is not rage. what i feel is disgust at pb's sunde's refusal to the father's plea. and i find it, YES!- immature, anarchistic and childish for him to base that refusal on 'it's not for me to judge what's right or wrong, we stand for freedom of speech'. oh come off it!

i did not mean that freedom of speech is childish anarchaic immature tripe- i wrote those words in a context, quite easy to see. there are trials going on right now in the adult entertainment industry which completely defy 'freedom of speech' etc which i *strongly disagree* with. so i'm all for freedom of 'speech' etc, so long as it doesn't involve a father asking for a torrent of photos of his dead kids to be modified on a site and some dude who is in a position to do that replying 'no, no, and again, no'.

again- if that was my child/ren it would be painful to know that there are many 'idiots'(they come in all walks of life, you know)/'who-e-ver and for whatever reason' looking at pictures of their dead bodies, possibly for decades to come. very creepy, do you NOT think?

but as you say; shock horror! pictures of dead children have existed for a long time already. so it's OK!

as i said, grow up and take the picture/s OFF.

738.9.2008 3:12

No, I don't say it's "ok", not in the way you mean. I also do say that you, and in fact NOONE, has the right to say it's NOT "ok" for TPB to follow the law in their own country. Again, you might as well rail at the Swedish government, or the US government, for that matter, for allowing exposure of this type of material to their respective public(s). You won't get anywhere; this is a very old argument, indeed.

Don't you see? It's those very photos of Nazi evil, the Oklahoma City bombing, the victims of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, and so on ad nauseam that MUST be seen! Hell, no, the events they show aren't ok, but showing the world what happened is not only "ok", it's damn well necessary. Similar arguments, in fact, have been raised against exposure of all of my examples: "It's too painful for the victims and/or their families", or "Only perverts/sadists/fill-in-the-psychosis-here would look at this material", and just about all the other arguments against the pictures' distribution I've seen here.

Ignoring evil never, ever, EVER makes it go away, but people always seem to insist on trying. You have to learn from it, so it doesn't happen again!

As for the father's pain, well, damn, that's got to be well-nigh unbearable. But guess what? I've also seen parents who WANTED this type of material to be seen - MADD is a great example - to hopefully teach the public-at-large more about their pain, and possibly to get them to avoid it themselves. Are THEY wrong for doing so? Were they perverts or evil sadists, to show me those rather sickening photos of dead children, mangled in car wrecks..? I may question their methods (I sure did at the time o.o ) but I do NOT question their motives.

In response to an earlier post: I wouldn't LIKE seeing pictures of my dead children, parents, or any other relative(s) posted in such a way at all, but I also put my money where my mouth is: I WILL NOT ABRIDGE LEGAL SPEECH, PERIOD, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CAN POSSIBLY SERVE A USEFUL PURPOSE FOR SOCIETY. If a picture of my mom after an autopsy helps ONE other person, it's damn well worth it. If some other creepy f*ck gets off on it at the same time, well, there's people who get off on mud, poo, animals, shoes, dead people, and just about everything else known to Man... That doesn't make the information itself "evil" or "bad". If it IS bad, then SHOES are bad, and mud, and so on. It's not the information, it's what you do with it.

And how the hell would you know someone viewing the content was so perverse anyway? Worrying about the mere possibility is pretty damn futile. It's also possible I might be hit in the head by a meteor in the next 5 minutes! Nothing I can do about that either. >.>

748.9.2008 3:54

This just came to mind.
It have been proven to me now that it is legal to obtain this information. And it must be obtained with a small fee and through the proper government channels. So I am now dumbfounded at how this information is not being removed since it would be illegal for anyone to now download those pictures and posses them without going through the proper government channels to obtain them.

So now we have a different situation.
Someone has bought the photos through the proper channel and has now posted them in a torrent for others to download and not properly pay for the photos through the correct government channels. Deeming the photos being downloaded Illegal.

Am I wrong?
Am I right?

A whole new set of issues.

"for a small fee to cover costs, from the government itself. "

758.9.2008 4:13

*Snort* Completely wrong. The information, again, is in the public domain. The fee the Swedish government charges is merely to cover copying and postage, nothing more. You ARE NOT "buying" the information, just the service that supplies it.

A good comparison is the procedure every city/town hall in the US uses: For all information they contain, they charge a small fee - to cover administrative expenses - to supply you a copy, even though it ALL is in the public domain. This is true of real estate information (who owns which plat, and suchlike), utility runs for construction companies (so they don't dig up a water line, say), copies of books from the city's law library (to determine municipal code) and so on. Re-publishing such information on your own dime is quite legal, hence the term "public domain". You can't copyright arrest records, land plats, utility runs, census data, or anything of the sort, for many excellent reasons.

In fact, just about everything produced by the US government - in this case, I'm reasonably certain but not sure Swedish law is completely congruent, I didn't ask this question specifically - that isn't labelled "Secret" or above, under executive privelege, or certain other very specific cases, is public domain. That's exactly what the Freedom of Information Act is all about (for the US)! This is more or less true of most reasonably democratic societies around the world.

Need another example? The Congressional Record is not only gigantic and unwieldy (and expensive as hell), it's also completely legal to re-publish any or all of it in whatever format you desire. If it wasn't it would be illegal to retransmit anything any Congresscritter said while in session, considering it's recorded in the Congressional Record!

Edit --> Rogue "is" - lol.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Sep 2008 @ 4:41

768.9.2008 4:50

Thank you for the information.

778.9.2008 4:59

You're quite welcome.

788.9.2008 5:25

I agree with a lot of points on both sides to this argument, I personally do not want to see pictures of this sort, BUT it is in the public domain and those that want to view them should be allowed to.
As far as taking them down because of the family wishes, or because it shows dead children? well then we have to get rid of all the Egyptian displays in all the museums across the globe then, because they display the same thing, or any such display that shows the remains of the dead, BUT those are allowed to enrich our knowledge and understanding of the past. It really depends on personal choice of what you find distasteful, morally objectional, or ugly. your views don't represent mine or some one else's necessarily, I don't agree with the tone of the response the PB gave when asked to take them down, it was insensitive, but i do agree with the right he has to keep the torrent up. That's what free speech is, the right to say or express what you want even if it offends someone.

798.9.2008 6:16

Why do most of you don't understand that just because something is legal doesn't mean you have to do it? As long as whatever TPB is tracking doesn't cause any personal harm I don't mind, but in this case, by express wishes from the parents, I think it's not about being legal, but about to respect.

Actually I don't know what need the parents had to download the torrent, but still I do understand their point and in my opinion TPB should have taken the torrent down.

808.9.2008 9:39

Originally posted by patrick_:
Why do most of you don't understand that just because something is legal doesn't mean you have to do it? ............ in this case, by express wishes from the parents, I think it's not about being legal, but about to respect.
exactly.

i'm out. this one can be debated forever...........

818.9.2008 9:44

just one more thing:

Quote:

I also do say that you, and in fact NOONE, has the right to say it's NOT "ok" for TPB to follow the law in their own country
but i can say what i want ! it's my opinion! and freedom of speech man!

pfffffff! ...... . . ... . . .

828.9.2008 15:45

I like The Pirate Bay. I come there daily to find the torrents I need. However, the way they are acting, they will be brought down sooner or later. And they will go down hard.

And posting pictures of dead children has nothing to do with freedom of speech. If you say it is, you're also saying that child pornography should be allowed.

838.9.2008 16:08
Dragula96
Inactive

Quote:
this time for refusing to take down a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year.
Could be used for educational purposes, like medical students and such? Oh well, they can do what they want. I got a question for you guys, should the courts or lawyers here in the United States be sued, or get into any trouble for showing pictures of bloody deaths scenes? Including people hung, stabbed, shot in the face, heads cut off. Happens all the time in court cases. People see death all the time. They aren't hurting anyone - if you don't like it, don't download it!

Sounds more like the people who had control of the pictures in the first place should be investigated. Sucks for the parents to have to go through this, but the world is a cruel place.

848.9.2008 17:56

If you don't want to see the pics, don't d/l them. Emails containing pics of damaged/injured/dead people have been circulating for years, now someone uploads a torrent and everyone cracks! Personally I'm more offended by those emails containing pictures of cats with silly captions.

With any luck the surrounding furore will out the killers.

859.9.2008 7:47

Originally posted by Bozobub:
Again, those pictures are already in the public domain, and can be acquired for a nominal fee to cover postage/copying of the material directly from the Swedish government.
Its one thing to have pictures as public domain, its another to advertise it.

869.9.2008 7:49

Originally posted by fionah:
don't you think the parents have suffered enough??

we cannot comprehend unless we have been there...
+1 million

879.9.2008 9:47

You live in a country that you may leave at any time then you are agreeing to abide to the laws of said country. You elected to take part in said countries practices. This particular country allows this type of information to be released for a nominal fee or however they do it then talk to them about it. It's not up to the Pirate Bay to police their business due to feelings of visitors of said site. You don't like it then don't partake in it's rules/regulations/laws. Simple.

889.9.2008 10:05
Dragula96
Inactive

Originally posted by daddymo:
If you don't want to see the pics, don't d/l them. Emails containing pics of damaged/injured/dead people have been circulating for years, now someone uploads a torrent and everyone cracks! Personally I'm more offended by those emails containing pictures of cats with silly captions.

With any luck the surrounding furore will out the killers.
LMFAO - exactly!



899.9.2008 11:32

Dragula69-


909.9.2008 12:08

The pirate bay took the right action because of what the pirate bay represents. I am sure there is a lot of stuff on the pirate bay that would not meet your approval. This one made the news.

I admit this sucks for the family and I would hate this to happen to anyone but it did and they will deal. A cold thing to say but it is true.

If you disagree with the pirate bay on this one, you truly never supported them, you justed wanted a well known place with a lot of quality music and movie torrents. Period. They are just as bad (or good to some people) for having torrents of music, videos, etc as they are for this autopsy information.

So draw your line in the sand, you are entitled to. I respect that and your opinion. But please respect mine and others as well, even if it might disagree with yours. :-)


These opinions are not meant to start a stupid fanboy fight or any kind of fight for that matter.

919.9.2008 22:40

well said, well said

9211.9.2008 10:35

Let them do what they want. Can you stop it no! Voice your opinon writing a full paragraph but its not going to change a thing

9312.9.2008 8:04

I agree with those who believe it is appropriate for people to be allowed to distribute public records or public domain material freely.

As much as I feel for the child's parents, and I do, I would be offended if TPB started censoring public material.

TPB was clearly insensitive in their emphatic response to that person. I fault them for that. It would have been much better if they had been kind and said they understand why they would want it taken down, but as a public service organization, it is not their role to censor public information or freedom of expression.

I don't see why this episode would pose any kind of threat to TPB, though, as the author seems to infer.

9412.9.2008 21:35

i don't doubt that all this is heart breaking for some people in respect to the children. My query is that if it is so upsetting then why does the father keep participating? He certainly is NOT protecting the children's memory. In fact, if the whole schemozzle is so upsetting then why does anyone keep getting involved by this repeated picking of the scab?

9512.9.2008 22:09

Read this article called "Pirate Bay Boycotts Press after Public Witch-Hunt" from TorrentFreak.

It explains the Pirate Bays stance more clearly than any article I have read.

9614.9.2008 19:54

Originally posted by earthasa:
I agree with those who believe it is appropriate for people to be allowed to distribute public records or public domain material freely.

As much as I feel for the child's parents, and I do, I would be offended if TPB started censoring public material.

TPB was clearly insensitive in their emphatic response to that person. I fault them for that. It would have been much better if they had been kind and said they understand why they would want it taken down, but as a public service organization, it is not their role to censor public information or freedom of expression.

I don't see why this episode would pose any kind of threat to TPB, though, as the author seems to infer.

Exactly.

In addition, "advertising" the availability of public records isn't the problem. In fact, too few people are aware that they have the right to these records! This lack of public knowledge about such things is a great part of why the Bush administration's refusal of legal FOI requests is easily swept under the rug in the US. I'm sure similar behavior only benefits the tyrants in ANY country.

No matter the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the peanut gallery, in the final analysis, the pictures are legal, the torrent is legal, and they're not coming off TPB until the torrent dies of old age. If they somehow were forced to do so, I WOULD HOST THE DAMN IMAGES MYSELF. I refuse to let this type of "soft" censorship win, any more than any other type.

Similar types of censorship/ban arguments have been raised against Huckleberry Finn, for heavens' sake, because it uses the word "n*gger". ANyone who argues Samuel Clemens (AKA "Mark Twain") meant that word in a bigoted manner is a fool. It was a lesson ABOUT bigotry..!

9724.9.2008 19:19
vudoo
Inactive

Don't you see that this is yet another ploy for the anti p2p companies to "educate" you that p2p is in fact evil and steeling and their way to compare it to child pornography in order to have a worthy case to be used to take down The Pirate Bay. Don't be fooled.

Fact 1 The music industry is doing away with DRM by being beaten into submission. Examples are: Napster, Rhapsody, SpiralFrog (With AEM read more about my ideas about AEM and you'll see how the industry is using my idea), iTunes with its iTunes plus (Charging more for non DRM meterial unlike Amazon and Napster)

Fact 2: Pepsi is giving away FREE Mp3's on amazon by using pepsi points. This can be a great way to pay the artists and to help keep America clean. I've used the codes myself to redo my music collection as I've lost tons of music when my Alienware was struck by lightning. you'll be surprised at the number of Pepsi caps you'll find and I just put the codes into my portable organizer and when I get home I have 100's of FREE songs waiting for me to Download.

Fact 3: Check out IMDB as there offering FREE media streaming.

TPB is simply taking on the take all and share it all concept. Yes I'm a Pirate as well and damn proud of it. Too many companies want to get rich quick and if it takes screwing over a widow, elderly person, or 12 yr old child then so be it according to these companies. Don't even fall prey to this anti p2p article. Rejoice in the fact that TPB stood proud and firm and didn't cave in like a whining baby bitch boy.

9824.9.2008 22:52
varnull
Inactive

goddam.. looks like we won the "freedom of information" argument here at least.

keep it up lads. it's our vision of the future not the corporate scumbags ideal future we need to win next.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3170086

when you buy something do you own it?.. is the rental aspect clearly labelled?

/me listens to Pulp - I Spy... my theme song ripped from my vinyl.. and they say that is illegal too.. watch out.. soon you will have to pay to breathe because some scumbag business will patent the act of sucking in air.... oooo.. /me heads off to USA patent office applications.

grey cats are the coolest.. next time I want to be a grey cat.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Sep 2008 @ 23:18

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