AfterDawn: Tech news

EA increases activations for 'Spore' owners

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 19 Sep 2008 15:58 User comments (40)

EA increases activations for 'Spore' owners Mounting pressure and harsh reviews on Amazon have seemed to finally get through to EA who has announced that all Spore owners will have 5 activations now for their game, compared to the 3 users are currently allowed.
Frank Gibeau, EA Games Label president, made a statement this morning in which he said, "We've received complaints from a lot of customers who we recognize and respect. And while it's easy to discount the noise from those who only want to post or transfer thousands of copies of the game on the Internet, I believe we need to adapt our policy to accommodate our legitimate consumers."

Besides announcing the added activations, the company said they will also offer easier ways for users to receive additional activations, if they are "warranted." The publisher added that they were currently developing a system that would allow gamers to de-authorize a machine (perhaps before a reformat) and then transfer the authorization to a new computer.

Gibeau did note however, that the DRM was not going anywhere. "We're willing to evolve our policy to accommodate our consumers. But we're hoping that everyone understands that DRM policy is essential to the economic structure we use to fund our games and as well as to the rights of people who create them."

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40 user comments

119.9.2008 17:47

Being able to deauthorize a machine would be nice. At least that may help some of the multiple installation problems.

However, DRM is still DRM and regardless of how many more activations they allow it won't prevent piracy, like they "intend" it too.

The only proof needed of this is in the fact that this game was pirated, successfully, 4 days before its official release. DRM is nothing more than a waste of money and a great way to piss off your customers.

219.9.2008 17:51

Seriously, I was going to buy this game. My girlfriend was actually excited about it too. As soon as I heard about the DRM, I told her we weren't going to buy it. Unfortunately I am one of those many people that reformats their hard drive often. As I would love to be a legitment company, this just isnt possible for me. My gaming dollars will not go towards a limited product. I still have my original copy of Final Fantasy for the NES, and my copy of WarCraftII. These are games that I pickup and play every coulple years. I would rather avoid getting attached to a game I would have to rebuy. After seeing this whole thing, it kinda makes me not want to buy their console games either. It makes me think that the EA brand is "dirty" now.

319.9.2008 17:54

Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
Being able to deauthorize a machine would be nice. At least that may help some of the multiple installation problems.

However, DRM is still DRM and regardless of how many more activations they allow it won't prevent piracy, like they "intend" it too.

The only proof needed of this is in the fact that this game was pirated, successfully, 4 days before its official release. DRM is nothing more than a waste of money and a great way to piss off your customers.
well said, save for that De-authorize machine part. there already telling me how to use there game i purchased, dont want them to tell me how to use my machine.

419.9.2008 17:58
varnull
Inactive

They ARE already telling you how you can use your machine... a new hdd or graphics card or network card and probably any bit of new network hardware will trigger a reactivation scenario.

It's endemic.. The developers of Crysis: Warhead (Crytek) should really re-evaluate who publishes their games. It's been noted that once again, EA has placed install limits on the latest FPS from Crytek in addition to the much protested SecuROM.

Spyware gone mad.. along with fista you won't be able to eat at your keyboard soon..... unless it is an "approved" snack prepared in an "approved" way.

I saw somebody saying in one of the other threads (or maybe on this topic on another site) how they would be happier with Starforce drm... hahaha.. swap invasive spyware for IDE emulation which can cause real physical damage to your hardware.. nice one !

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Sep 2008 @ 18:03

519.9.2008 19:43

Originally posted by varnull:
They ARE already telling you how you can use your machine... a new hdd or graphics card or network card and probably any bit of new network hardware will trigger a reactivation scenario.

It's endemic.. The developers of Crysis: Warhead (Crytek) should really re-evaluate who publishes their games. It's been noted that once again, EA has placed install limits on the latest FPS from Crytek in addition to the much protested SecuROM.

Spyware gone mad.. along with fista you won't be able to eat at your keyboard soon..... unless it is an "approved" snack prepared in an "approved" way.

I saw somebody saying in one of the other threads (or maybe on this topic on another site) how they would be happier with Starforce drm... hahaha.. swap invasive spyware for IDE emulation which can cause real physical damage to your hardware.. nice one !
Starforce, Has ceased Hasn't it?

Every 5 years i Do a major upgrade MB and all. im not exactly the High End User, but i do upgrade components when necessary about every 2 years.

Wanna know something funny im using a 7 year old SoundBlaster EMU and it will destroy most sound cards to date. New never means better, Just more toys.

BTT\ Still label it what you want EA, Install limits, remote activation, unSecurom, DRM Had a boom in the late 90-02, but its a dinosaur thats about to get struck my the asteroid.

619.9.2008 20:43

BS had the revoke tool to get your tokens back, of course this was after begging and whining for it, why dose this DRM think its bad to revoke the fcking install?

719.9.2008 21:36

The are kidding themselves is they think DRM is helping them in any monetary way. This probably hurt their sales by 50% or more.

819.9.2008 23:13

Trying to reason with EA, or any DRM using company for that matter, is a waste of time. So long as their product is within an acceptable revenue range, they could really care less what you think.

It's enjoyable for an hour or so, maybe 2, but that's it. I wouldn't pay more than $19.99 for it, creature creator included. Anything more is a rip-off, in my irrelevant opinion.

919.9.2008 23:58

Its been known for awhile that the video card makers ATI and Nvidia are actually dependent on piracy to a large extent..

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid...636202&from=rss

yet if you swap out your video card and motherboard, it triggers the DRM...

oh the irony.

1020.9.2008 1:13

Hummm.... lemme think, oh yeah i play WOW & i know you have to pay monthly but there isnt much of a DRM scheme! I just use the disks & enter my user acct that is tied to my reg key from the disk & i can play! I have installed it on 3 computers i cant play more than 1 @ a time, i don't see how this cant work? install with the cd key & create a user acct the 1st time that locks your cd key to you! whats the big deal? then u only need to access the internet 1st install, i have Sins Od a Solar system & they have the same kind of thing! I think i can install it how ever many times but no updates on an install that isn't registered! Or what about my Guild Wars! no monthly fee & i have installed it on 2 comps with no issues just have cd key tied to user acct!

1120.9.2008 3:07

No....

EPIC FAIL.

Play again, EA?

1220.9.2008 3:14

Originally posted by ripxrush:
Hummm.... lemme think, oh yeah i play WOW & i know you have to pay monthly but there isnt much of a DRM scheme! I just use the disks & enter my user acct that is tied to my reg key from the disk & i can play! I have installed it on 3 computers i cant play more than 1 @ a time, i don't see how this cant work? install with the cd key & create a user acct the 1st time that locks your cd key to you! whats the big deal? then u only need to access the internet 1st install, i have Sins Od a Solar system & they have the same kind of thing! I think i can install it how ever many times but no updates on an install that isn't registered! Or what about my Guild Wars! no monthly fee & i have installed it on 2 comps with no issues just have cd key tied to user acct!
there little or no DRM on a Pay to play MMoRPG, simply because if you dont pay they kick you off the server, leaving you with no game.

Spore correct me if im wrong, is a single player Simulation.

so they feel the need to protect themselves from the consume....Oops Pirates with a false sense of security called DRM which bye the way they pay good money to license for each unit sold.

Now the funny part, i bet Sony is laughing and singing Show me the money, because ea bought into another failed DRM.

DRM means higher retail prices, lower Resale value if any, Spore HAS no Resale value.

1320.9.2008 8:43
atomicxl
Inactive

Originally posted by jetyi83:
The are kidding themselves is they think DRM is helping them in any monetary way. This probably hurt their sales by 50% or more.
Nah. I read somewhere that off pre order alone Spore sold like 500k units day one and its been adding about 40k people on a daily basis. The normal person doesn't have like 50 different computers they want to install spore on so the DRM doesn't affect them.

And wasn't it actually that you could only install it one 3 machines at once, not that you can only install the game 3 times? How many people have 5 computers that they actively use and need to install Spore on?

1420.9.2008 8:45
13thHouR
Inactive

great you get two more activations, btw does this EULA not conflict the first sale doctrine?

3. Transfer. You may make a one time permanent transfer to all your rights to install and use the Software to another individual or legal entity provided that:(a) the technical protection measures used by the Software supports such transfers; (b) you also transfer this License and all copies of the Software; (b) you retain no copies of the Software, upgrades, updates or prior versions; and (c) the receiving party accepts the terms and conditions of this License. You may not be able to transfer the right to receive updates, dynamically served content, or the right to use any online service of EA in connection with the Software.You may not be able to transfer the Software if you have already exhausted the terms of this License by authenticating the Software on the allowed number machines. Subsequent recipients of this License may not be able to authenticate the Software on additional machines. EA may require that any end user of the Software register the Software online as a condition of use and/or purchase additional licenses.

drm.jpg" border=0>


dam cant put this image up keeps giving the above error. anyway here is the link:

http://files.xboxic.com/general/anti-drm.jpg

drm.jpg" border=0>


Originally posted by jetyi83:
The are kidding themselves is they think DRM is helping them in any monetary way. This probably hurt their sales by 50% or more.
well it helping Sony as they can continue their fear campaign so everyone purchases their rootkit SecuROM DRM, and secretly turn everyone over to a pay per, view/listen/use basis.

"Guns don't kill people, rappers do!"







did cassettes actually kill music?





This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Sep 2008 @ 9:43

1520.9.2008 10:34
13thHouR
Inactive

Here is a great vid from the tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKUPYMxkbVY

Originally posted by video info:
What is SecuROM & why are consumers unhappy with it?

UPDATE:

This will be of interest to anyone who has ever had the
"This application has crashed. The application will now terminate" Message...

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM

SecuROM v4.84 and beyond includes "Trigger Functions" which allow the developer to program multiple and fully customizable authentication checks throughout the entire application. As the protection places itself between the application's code and the OS, it can alter the behaviour of selected system functions.

However, as SecuROM can modify the function's result, the application can check for the protection's presence during runtime; if the protection has been removed, the function will return with some other valid value, giving the application the opportunity to display an error message or render the application unusable (e.g. provoking a crash to desktop).

There are many different ways how "triggers" can be integrated into a program, making it much more complicated to universally circumvent the protection.
-------------------
Phanteria:
In short this is saying that SecuROM makes intermittent checks during the running of the game. If SecuROM cannot validate your (legally bought) game it will terminate it which will generate the "This application has crashed. The application will now terminate" Message.

Now everything is totally clear...

SECUROM DOES CRASH THE GAME.

EA shame on you for using such a flawed piece of copy protection software.

one user kroneage wrote about EA DRM

Originally posted by kroneage:
SecuROM is a part of Sony Family of DRM (Digital Rectal Manipulation)!!!

If you remember, Systernals were the ones that uncovered the Sony Rootkit Fiasco. But getting burnt for $Millions$ didn't teach Sony anything. The reason is Sony is still headed by Sir Howard StringNutz and his brother runs Sony BMG Records (London). As long as these two degenerates are in charge, we never know what they are willing to do to us that plunk down money for their music and games protected by SecuROM! Fukem!

1620.9.2008 10:36

13thHouR

It might but you have to drag it to higher courts first...

1720.9.2008 10:45
13thHouR
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
13thHouR

It might but you have to drag it to higher courts first...
I'm in the UK so first sale is not a right here me thinks.

1820.9.2008 11:03

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
13thHouR

It might but you have to drag it to higher courts first...
I'm in the UK so first sale is not a right here me thinks.
holy fckits worse you have to pay raolties on resold goods 0-o

http://www.artquest.org.uk/artlaw/resaleroyaltyright/28870.htm

anyone have a software version of this?

Found this German one squishing the right of resale 0-o
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/08...censes_illegal/

scary sht......

1920.9.2008 11:14

@13thHouR:
Awsome pictures you have there :)


Ìncreases activations? What will that help? It still has DRM =/

2020.9.2008 18:19
spamual
Inactive

i dont see the problem with secuROM.

i reinstall my HDD everyfew months, but storage and games are on a different HDD to my OS one.

we dont need a DVD to play anymore, and now we have 5 reinstallations.

thats about 3-4 years worth of upgrades in which time you will be playing a new game.....

bash me all you want but IMO (MY OPINION), for MY USE, not generalising, secuROM doesnt change the way i play games, so i dotn care if it is in or not.

2120.9.2008 20:46

Originally posted by spamual:
i dont see the problem with secuROM.

i reinstall my HDD everyfew months, but storage and games are on a different HDD to my OS one.

we dont need a DVD to play anymore, and now we have 5 reinstallations.

thats about 3-4 years worth of upgrades in which time you will be playing a new game.....

bash me all you want but IMO (MY OPINION), for MY USE, not generalising, secuROM doesnt change the way i play games, so i dotn care if it is in or not.
One can also say that you can crack it so it dose not matter, but thats not the point. They are infringing on consumer rights and the right of resale.

2220.9.2008 21:19
spamual
Inactive

PC games dont fetch much resale value as it is.

2320.9.2008 21:48

Originally posted by spamual:
PC games don't fetch much resale value as it is.

No worse than lack luster console titles that don;t sale well.

PC games start out 10$ less than console titles as well, but the point is they are infringing on the consumer rights.

its funny you should bring up price Spore is going for 50-80$ yet its new on ebay for 30$ they are creating a situation where thy are undercutting themselfs due to bad PR, people wanting to get rid of it will sell it off cheap opened or not.

2420.9.2008 22:22
spamual
Inactive

so what rights are being infringed exactly?

2520.9.2008 22:28

Originally posted by spamual:
so what rights are being infringed exactly?
Right of playing it when you want not dependent on a sever that wont be around in 5 years, unrestricted resale as well as a half dozen oth4er chilling effect issues.


All they have to do is use a revoking install system to allow people to uninstall it properly, then the only real issue of annoyance is the need to be online to activate it..

2621.9.2008 11:52
spamual
Inactive

Quote:

Right of playing it when you want not dependent on a sever that wont be around in 5 years, unrestricted resale as well as a half dozen oth4er chilling effect issues.


All they have to do is use a revoking install system to allow people to uninstall it properly, then the only real issue of annoyance is the need to be online to activate it..
they aready said if the server is going down they will give patches.

you dont need to be onlien to play SP mode, the only time activation checks are made is when you are online, or downloading and using an update.

most if nto all PC gamers have internet, i dont see the problem with an online activation, atleast we dont have to use dvds in the drive anymore.

2721.9.2008 13:50

Quote:
Quote:

Right of playing it when you want not dependent on a sever that wont be around in 5 years, unrestricted resale as well as a half dozen oth4er chilling effect issues.


All they have to do is use a revoking install system to allow people to uninstall it properly, then the only real issue of annoyance is the need to be online to activate it..
they aready said if the server is going down they will give patches.

you dont need to be onlien to play SP mode, the only time activation checks are made is when you are online, or downloading and using an update.

most if nto all PC gamers have internet, i dont see the problem with an online activation, atleast we dont have to use dvds in the drive anymore.
Ya and I can garrentee you hey wont because its an old game that they no longer support.

Online only anything for physical distributed goods(outside of MMos) is a oxy moron.

2821.9.2008 15:12
13thHouR
Inactive

Quote:
they aready said if the server is going down they will give patches.
If that's the case it should be written into the EULA as a right to protect customers.

2921.9.2008 15:14

Quote:
Quote:
they aready said if the server is going down they will give patches.
If that's the case it should be written into the EULA as a right to protect customers.
They wont and you'd still have to sue to get them to fix it.

Its rather simple to me DRM can coexist with offline physical media.

1.Normal disc protection.
2.Install via CD key and phone in automation system where you punch in the numbers, or online activation.
3.If activated online the disc protection is removed.
4.Install limits are 10 install tokens for the online activation and phone system(key+phone passcode = 1 token), when you uninstall you may get a token back by sending the information back to the install server.

This is a no brainier, without this the current systems damage both consumer and resaler rights.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Sep 2008 @ 15:17

3021.9.2008 15:31
spamual
Inactive

it shame, everyone bitches about something with DRM, but i bet it has never stopped you doing anything you wanted to.

DRM doesnt stop piracy its seen here, but if it doesnt affect ME or the avg joe while trying to game, then i dont see the problem.

3122.9.2008 7:09

Originally posted by spamual:
it shame, everyone bitches about something with DRM, but i bet it has never stopped you doing anything you wanted to.

DRM doesnt stop piracy its seen here, but if it doesnt affect ME or the avg joe while trying to game, then i dont see the problem.
the only shame is to see someone defending DRM, don't be a sheep and i hope you wouldn't bet anything important on that because you'd lose.

DRM doesn't do anything except SHAFT the consumer paying his hard earned $$$.

labeling every consumer as a potential pirate is offensive and it just ends up turning more people into pirates.

i'm not saying they should lie down and take it, maybe things could be a tad cheaper?

maybe make movies for the love of making movies, make music for the love of making music, make games for the love of making games, not for the need to make millions of dollars, if that applied, prices would be different.

downloading music/movies/games will not stop anyone from making anything, because in the beginning they weren't just about $$$.

intellectual property? what the fu** is that? -peter sunde

3222.9.2008 7:43
varnull
Inactive

Quote:
intellectual property? what the fu** is that? -peter sunde
If he was the kind of asshat the media and certain people are trying to paint him he would now be suing you for stealing his "intellectual property".. the words out of his mouth.

Some of these companies believe they still have the right to attempt to make money from console roms which went out with the ark.. you could get busted for downloading colecovision roms if any group of "rights holders" saw fit... because you are "stealing" from them.

Anyway.. according to people who have played this game.. it's not very good. Save your money and go elsewhere to publishers who don't use DRM.. Encourage them instead of the old, large and greedy.
EA won't be the first game publisher to go under, and they won't be the last.

3322.9.2008 11:08
spamual
Inactive

how exactly so they shaft the customer?

im not defending DRM, im just saying it doesnt get in the way of someone who just wants to play a game.

and they are not labeling they consumers as pirates, they are trying to stop pirating, ofcourse completely failing in the proccess.

we are in a capitalistic world, where everyone is out to make money. its simple.

i have gotten over 1000 hours out of cod4 on the PC, id say it was worth the £35 i payed for the collectors edition.

same with spore, i have gotten over 50 hours so far of that.... DRM didnt stop me once.

bioshock i have played countless amount of times, no problems, through a good few OS installs, never once had a problem.

3422.9.2008 12:10

Originally posted by spamual:
how exactly so they shaft the customer?

im not defending DRM, im just saying it doesnt get in the way of someone who just wants to play a game.

and they are not labeling they consumers as pirates, they are trying to stop pirating, ofcourse completely failing in the proccess.

we are in a capitalistic world, where everyone is out to make money. its simple.

i have gotten over 1000 hours out of cod4 on the PC, id say it was worth the £35 i payed for the collectors edition.

same with spore, i have gotten over 50 hours so far of that.... DRM didnt stop me once.

bioshock i have played countless amount of times, no problems, through a good few OS installs, never once had a problem.
so basically your logic is "because i have gotten over 1000 hours of COD4 on the PC, DRM is not a problem!"

that's great man really, i'm happy for you that you haven't yet had a problem with DRM but that doesn't mean others haven not. don't forget DRM isn't just in your games, DRM can be in movies, music, software, etc.. just because you have played bioshock countless times without a problem doesn't mean that everyone else has. you forget when bioshock was released for the PC MANY people including myself owned the game for almost a WEEK without being able to play it thanks to DRM, guess you bought your bioshock later on.

yahoo! music store is going to be shutting down their DRM servers on sept 30th, if you don't consider that being shafted then all the power to you.

how would you like it if someone stuck a hidden camera in your showerhead to watch you shower? say no to rootkits!!! you should educate yourself a bit on DRM before you start saying people are "bitching" about it like it's no big deal, DRM is a big deal, and until people like you realize it and stop purchasing things with DRM will it ever stop.

please don't misinterperet my post, i am by no means calling you an idiot or stupid or anything like that, my english/grammar is not very good so i apologize if i am coming across like that, i am just saying you must not know much about DRM, our opinions differ and that is all.

3522.9.2008 12:31
spamual
Inactive

look as i have said before, it is my opinion, i am not stating a general fact, i am jsut stating what i have experianced first hand and how DRM is affecting me.

btw i was only talking about DRM in games.

Movies its fine aswell, for me anyways as i dont rip my dvds to HDD.

and i buy my music DRM free online to download, so that isnt a problem, and apples itunes have drm, they havent exactly got in the way of playing music, as i just have one 80GB ipod, and for me i only use that to play music, not other deivces, so music being restircted to that device is fine by me.

i am sure, just like vista, most of the people who complain about DRM are people who dont use things with DRM. vista for me is fine aswell no problems once i turn of uac and give my self ownership of the C drive.

3623.9.2008 12:56

DRM is bad, but this one takes the cake. And for all the reasons stated above (I'm not going to repeat them because they've been repeated over and over again). For someone to say that anything is ok just because it hasn't affected them yet really shows a lack of understanding of any larger issues that may be prevalent. This is not a personal attack. I personally have never been impacted negatively by DRM - it's never prevented me from doing what I've wanted. I read about it and am fully aware of how and where it's implemented. And I have no problem bypassing it, as I feel that it is my right to do whatever I want to do with something that I've purchased. This form of DRM takes away that right. It absolutely can make paying (informed) customers feel like criminals. Because EA is now allowing me to play their game instead of owning it, but on a short leash. No thanks. Anyone who buys anything with this DRM is allowing these companies to make the leash shorter and tighter. Soon all freedom will be choked off. I'm getting ready to cut all ties with the gaming industry if it comes closer and closer to that.

3723.9.2008 13:45
varnull
Inactive

First they came for the fourth amendment,
and I did not speak out, because I didn't deal drugs.

They came for the fifth amendment,
and I was silent because I owned no property involved in crimes

They came for the sixth amendment,
and I did not protest because I was innocent.

They came for the second amendment,
and I said nothing because I didn't own a gun.

And then they came for the first amendment,
and I could say nothing at all.

Illinois State University College of Fine Arts

I had a very interesting communication with the head of Microsoft's console division a few years back. We got to talking about DRM and copied games. He had a very interesting take on the banning of gamers for using hdd backups or burned (pirated) games on consoles.. His take was this..

"OK.. so a gamer is playing a burned or backed up game online. They have still bought a Microsoft console and they are still paying us for the server and network to play their game. Why do we ban people we catch? Simple.. because the game publishers demand that we do. Microsoft one way and another really are not that interested in where online players have sourced the online enabled Live! game. We make from each step of the process. There is no requirement to go into a store and buy a new game to play live online, you can buy a used/2nd owner game, and in that the game publishers are being short sighted about the possible revenue streams they are denying themselves by insisting on originality of media."

Now isn't that an interesting take on DRM and restriction from somebody on the front line?

Maybe EA should have a serious rethink of what they are doing.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Sep 2008 @ 13:57

3824.9.2008 8:28

I was going to buy spore for my child for christmas until I found out the restrictions that apply to it - and here's the best bit, when I explained why I didn't think he'd get it for christmas (he was chomping at the bit for it) he even said "well, forget that, I don't want it if that's how they treat people!" ... out of the mouths of babes!
Here's an example of how much EA values it's customers - it's an excerpt from the "Terms of Service" on their spore site...

You have the right to cancel your Account or a particular subscription to an EA Service at any time. If you do not agree to the terms in this Terms of Service, your sole remedy is to not use EA Services and to cancel your Account or applicable subscriptions. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with EA, including any dispute related to, or arising out of: (1) any term of this Terms of Service or EA’s enforcement or application of this Terms of Service; (2) the Content available through EA Services or any change in Content provided through EA Services; (3) your ability to access and/or use EA Services; or (4) the amount or type of fees, surcharges, applicable taxes, billing methods, or any change to the fees, applicable taxes, surcharges or billing methods for EA Services.

As my son says "FORGET THAT!"

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Sep 2008 @ 8:32

3924.9.2008 8:53
varnull
Inactive

It's really sad isn't it?.. I like EA games.. Tiger Woods golf must be one of the best "value for money" game series there is.

All mine are pirated, but I have still paid for the live account to play them online since my partner walked out. How much have the server and online providers made out of me?.. 10x the price of the games.. if I had bought them.

Your son sounds like the future.. EA should listen to him because we are old timers and we don't matter isn't it.

4024.9.2008 14:29

Originally posted by varnull:
It's really sad isn't it?.. I like EA games.. Tiger Woods golf must be one of the best "value for money" game series there is.

All mine are pirated, but I have still paid for the live account to play them online since my partner walked out. How much have the server and online providers made out of me?.. 10x the price of the games.. if I had bought them.

Your son sounds like the future.. EA should listen to him because we are old timers and we don't matter isn't it.
Nah, the only thing they listen to anymore is good ol Benjamin Franklin & Mr.Green.

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