Microsoft banning Xbox 360 consoles again

Typical Microsoft behaviour.

wont make any differnce to people who play their 360 offline with pirated games

Hmmm, sounds like that was written by someone in the PR department. I'd like to know what percentage of xBox's are modified -- and if this announcement will actually cause more people to engage in illegal behavior. Personally, I had no idea you could modify your xBox.

I'd like to know how many people have modded systems in order to play backups of original discs. It may be few, but there is no way of telling, and these people get labeled "pirates."

They are shooting themselves in the foot. That just lowers their Live customer rate.

I can understand some punk kid with a bunch of mods for Halo that just kills everyone on the screen.

But someone playing a backup copy?? Please!

Okay this is poor to admit, but I do have a console with modified firmware. I NEVER played a backup copy of a game on Live and still got nailed with the ban hammer.

Does that make me a pirate? No.
Did I know the risk? Yes.
Did Microsoft lose a paying customer by banning my Live? Absolutely.

MS needs to shift gears and concentrate on their product and not alienating their fan base. Unlike their competitors, they charge for online service, plus they've had 2 sales record shattering hits, but have yet any profit to show for in their gaming division.

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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Okay this is poor to admit, but I do have a console with modified firmware. I NEVER played a backup copy of a game on Live and still got nailed with the ban hammer.

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What is the point of modding your firmware? Does it help performance?

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Originally posted by SProdigy:

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Okay this is poor to admit, but I do have a console with modified firmware. I NEVER played a backup copy of a game on Live and still got nailed with the ban hammer.

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What is the point of modding your firmware? Does it help performance?

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Modding the firmware allows you to play a burned copy of the original disc. Unfortunately, XBOX 360 games are all over p2p and the like, making it a difficult case for those who want to save their originals and play backups.

It's in their Terms of Use, so they have the right to do what they want. What they should have done is locked the system tighter like Sony.

They need to stop throwing around the word "pirate" and recognize that there are legitimate uses for a modded console. Just say that it violates the Terms of Use for XBL. That is a perfectly fine statement.

Honestly though, if they tell you that you will get banned from XBL for playing a modded console, then don't use a modded console on XBL.

Microsoft does make money through the fees associated with XBL, but that amount is trivial, as much of it goes back into development/ maintenance for XBL itself.

It's not a big deal to M$ to lose $50 a year. Microsoft doesn't care about you Mr. XBox Modder, they care about punishing you and making you an example so that more people don't follow suit and M$ doesn't lose game sale revenue.

Locking the system up tighter, like Sony? Sony has plenty of experience with their consoles being easily hacked. Look at the PSP... It seems like there has been custom firmware for that since day 1. It's only a matter of time until the PS3 is cracked,

Tough.. read the live TOS.. copied games and modified consoles aren't allowed.. end of story.. It's in the rules.. break them and suffer the consequences.
Same as drinking and driving or wife beating.. lots of people do it. Doesn't make it right does it? The ones who get caught are punished.

Quit whining.. the rules are clear for all to see.. play copies or use modified hardware online and get banned.. simple as. M$ are perfectly within their rights to enforce their terms of service.. which BTW you have agreed to by signing up.. or has that fact escaped some people?

btw.. M$ have an interesting take on modifying consoles.. they don't care as it increases the sales of the consoles because some people can avoid paying for games they wouldn't buy anyway.. making the console a more attractive purchase.. bottom line.. those people probably aren't going to try playing online anyway.. they will not be prepared to pay for the account. It's rich kids who can afford the monthly fees and can well afford to buy games who get banned... not average joe skint in his shack playing a few downolads.

Originally posted by Moomoo2:

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"It's only a matter of time until the PS3 is cracked,"

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I wish. It's already been two years now, and we still having nothing exciting. I would be happy if they just allowed the use of the RSX in Linux.

Well, this is all pretty interesting. Yes, M$ is well within their rights to ban those playing copied games, legit or not. No, not everyone who is playing a copied game is a pirate and yes, everyone knew the potential concequences when they decided to mod their box....but let's try to make some use of this discussion rather than argue about right and wrong.

Is M$ actually taking legal action against modders or just banning them from live? Does anyone have information on what firmwares are actually getting banned? Last time M$ did this they used a game that was downloadable to get people....is it the same this time? Has anyone who played a legit backup online gotten banned yet? Has anyone who played an original game with a modded system gotten banned yet? Is their a paticular drive type that is getting banned more than others? Any of this info would be helpful.

Originally posted by mshockey:

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Is M$ actually taking legal action against modders or just banning them from live? Does anyone have information on what firmwares are actually getting banned? Last time M$ did this they used a game that was downloadable to get people....is it the same this time? Has anyone who played a legit backup online gotten banned yet? Has anyone who played an original game with a modded system gotten banned yet? Is their a paticular drive type that is getting banned more than others? Any of this info would be helpful.

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don't bold please its almost as irritating as using CAPS TO TYPE EVERYTHING. answers to your (?) no. no. no. yes. yes. no.

there happy?

Makes sense I don't mind because i didnt mod mine but i was thinkin about it a while back now i wont do it at all

i honestly am not surprised by this. its completely reasonable. i mean, they are just trying to limit the powers of the modded consoles, trying to convince people not to mod their systems and pirate games that they should buy. yea, it sucks for us consumers, but its completely reasonable. it worked for me and my friends, because Xbox Live! is completely worth it, better than playing by urself offline.

Originally posted by Leningrad:

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Typical Microsoft behaviour.

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Wow, they are stoping you from playing games for free.
How dare they!

Its less than a week until you can back ur 360 games up on its HDD, stop complaining, alteast M$ are now giving people that actually want to backup for safety the ability to do so.

People don't really have a case, if its in the Terms and conditions! Why the hell do it, it costs £1 to repair a disc at gamestation!

Sorry for the bold statement...I didn't realize people were so sensative. I guess we could continue this but I think most would agree that the most IRRITATING part of forums is people just complaining and arguing about things that don't resolve anything regarding the situation at hand. If anyone does have any useful information please post it. If you've been banned post your drive type, firmware, game played, etc.

Can't really get mad at Microsoft, but where's the penalty for them selling us botched fautly hardware?

Originally posted by Moomoo2:

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Honestly though, if they tell you that you will get banned from XBL for playing a modded console, then don't use a modded console on XBL.

Microsoft does make money through the fees associated with XBL, but that amount is trivial, as much of it goes back into development/ maintenance for XBL itself.

It's not a big deal to M$ to lose $50 a year. Microsoft doesn't care about you Mr. XBox Modder, they care about punishing you and making you an example so that more people don't follow suit and M$ doesn't lose game sale revenue.

Locking the system up tighter, like Sony? Sony has plenty of experience with their consoles being easily hacked. Look at the PSP... It seems like there has been custom firmware for that since day 1. It's only a matter of time until the PS3 is cracked,

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I should have been clearer. I assumed that people would grasp the obvious - that I was talking about the PS3 and comparing like consoles. This is not a PS2 or PSP discussion. Yeah, a matter of time dude. That's what it all comes down to - time. If the 360 was as tight as the PS3, there may still be no hack for it today and all of this would have been non-existent.

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Originally posted by Moomoo2:
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"It's only a matter of time until the PS3 is cracked,"
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I wish. It's already been two years now, and we still having nothing exciting. I would be happy if they just allowed the use of the RSX in Linux.

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Exactly. 2 years. 2 Years is a lot of time that MS would have bought. That's almost half the consoles life (let's not get into a discussion on how long a consoles lifespan is - the XBOX 1 was about 5 years and this is just a comparison).

So yes, it's only a matter of time. No system is 100% secure.

Originally posted by mshockey:

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Sorry for the bold statement...I didn't realize people were so sensative. I guess we could continue this but I think most would agree that the most IRRITATING part of forums is people just complaining and arguing about things that don't resolve anything regarding the situation at hand. If anyone does have any useful information please post it. If you've been banned post your drive type, firmware, game played, etc.

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This is a news article open for all discussion and opinions. If you want a long list of detailed information, it might be a good idea to start a forum thread if one has not already been started.

Originally posted by MrXenu:

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Its less than a week until you can back ur 360 games up on its HDD, stop complaining, alteast M$ are now giving people that actually want to backup for safety the ability to do so.

People don't really have a case, if its in the Terms and conditions! Why the hell do it, it costs £1 to repair a disc at gamestation!

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Having worked in the video rental industry for 5 years, I can tell you that the disc repair options rarely work. Some of the devices coat a layer of "turtle wax" to shine the bottom protecting layer, in order to enhance the readability of the disc. Other devices grind into this layer, trying to remove the surface scratches (it will not work for deep scratches.)

I have seen a friend's 360 literally eat one of his games and read reports online. You will still need to insert the disc in order to play from your HDD, so the risk is still there, though the disc should not spin as much and hopefully this will cut down on noise and heat generated by the console (think: another quick fix by MS; that's why I said they need to concentrate on their product.)

Originally posted by MooMoo2:

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It's only a matter of time until the PS3 is cracked

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Agreed, but said ability would have to take advantage of the internal Blu-Ray drive to rip to an internal HDD and then some form of HDD Loader program, much like Xbox1 and PS2 for it to "catch fire". I don't see the masses buying up Blu-Ray burners and media for their PC, as it's not cost effective. Then again, some people would rather "cheat" the companies than pay the same price for the real deal.

On a personal note, I wasn't defending my actions of having modded firmware in my 360. I always played my original copies when I went on Live and lasted about a year before I was mysteriously banned out of nowhere.

To give some insight, I had updated my dashboard when last year's Fall update came out. Since I used my 360 primarily for renting and streaming HD video, I was enthused by the Divx upgrade. I updated the dash and was instantly banned, without the ability to get the Divx software download.

Keep in mind, I had not played my system for at least 2 weeks, and had not signed into Live, even from the dash. This was something built into the software to sniff out custom firmware.

MS is doing the same thing now with the NXE update, which users are grabbing from the net. I don't see the problem, really, as MS will offer the update as an ISO that banned/offline users like myself can get burn from our PC.

My only comment is that MS has lost my subscription fee, plus any additional revenue from Marketplace and Live Arcade. I'm not sure why you would lump all of those together like that; it's not like renting a movie (making MS money) has anything to do with playing games online. As for the Silver version of XBL, they are foolish for banning a service that doesn't allow online play and only access to their store.

Looks like Nintendo gets my Live Arcade business on their WiiWare service.

Same goes for the tiny HDD and users that wish to upgrade: Sony has the better plan in that department.

I can't believe M$ is banning people from a service that you have to pay $30 a month for... Seems kinda contradictary of typical M$... I'd think they'd make more off selling XBL than the loss of a few games...

i have a question, if u have a modded xbox 360 and just log in to xbox lives but dont play mutiplayer online game with it? will you still get ban? i think the reason why people get banned is because they play multiplayers games such as gears of war 2, and call of duty world at war. i remember last year when call of duty 4 came out, alot of modded xbox 360 players log on and started playing it multiplayer online. that's how everyone got banned. i was wise not to play some of the new games that just came out online because i knew this would happen. my xbox 360 lives is not banned, just for people who wanna know. u wont get banned if u dont play multiplayer online. you can play the old games on xbox lives and not get banned.. confirmed

Originally posted by johncchc:

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i have a question, if u have a modded xbox 360 and just log in to xbox lives but dont play mutiplayer online game with it? will you still get ban? ... u wont get banned if u dont play multiplayer online. you can play the old games on xbox lives and not get banned.. confirmed

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Wrong my friend, so wrong. I didn't even log into XBL with my account and got banned. It was a new update that detected the modded firmware.

awww.. S.. that's unlucky.

@ DXR88 dont use bold? dont use caps? its irritating? well how bout this

I COULD CARE LESS! I PAY FOR MY GAMES, SO I WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE BANHAMMER!! DONT WANT TO GET BANNED? DONT BE A "PIRATE". SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU CHILDREN! YOU WANT TO MOD YOUR GAMING MACHINE? BUY A FREGGIN PC AND MOD THAT, SILLY TURDS :)

how could u get banned from system update? never happened to me before. did u install the leaked version of the new dashboard? the only way u will get ban from what i know is that if u play multiplayer online.. which i dont. i just log in to xbl and i have never gotten banned.

Originally posted by johncchc:

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how could u get banned from system update? never happened to me before. did u install the leaked version of the new dashboard? the only way u will get ban from what i know is that if u play multiplayer online.. which i dont. i just log in to xbl and i have never gotten banned.

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If you read my post, I got banned around a year ago, right after the Fall update which opened up new video formats and Divx. Never played any copies on multiplayer and never signed into Live unless it was my profile saves.

I hate to give misinformation, but I could've played an "advance" copy of a game before street date, but the ban came within hours of installing the new dash, and not any game, from my memory.

Note: there are dozens of posts in the ban thread whenever a new update, etc. comes out, so I'm sure I wasn't the only one and I know I won't be the last.

Disclaimer: I'm not looking for a "poor me" by posting this. In fact, I think ripoff artists deserve to be banned. Like I said, I knew the risk and it happened. It doesn't bother; just came as a bit of a shock when it did happen!

I just think you got really unlucky. It's not like you were cheating the system in the way most people moan and whine about when they get caught.

While it's unfortunate it's clearly in the rules.. and as adults we understand the implications of our actions and accept them when it comes down.

One very interesting thing.. I have never heard of somebody who bought a replacement drive and flashed it with their original firmware getting banned. It doesn't seem like there is anything actually hardware related to do with the dvd drive which is checked, just the firmware.

Another thought.. obviously M$ are as capable of downloading all the firmwares and flashing drives just the same as we are, in fact they are stupid if they don't do that, then work out exactly how to detect it remotely. This leads to a very interesting possibility, but it does mean a lot of flashing or how about buying another drive and just swapping them if you want to play on live? Jumper cables and some switches and the modded drive sitting on top anybody?

I know a kid in Australia who was banned and does not have any modded firmware. When his dad contacted M$, he was banned for modded console.

I've actually considered doing just that. It wouldn't be very difficult to have an external drive that was mod free to use with the games you play online. Disconnect from the internet while using the modded drive and put a switch to re-route the power from the internal to the external drive for online use. You would have to own all the online games but we all own all of our games anyways, right? Kind of a happy medium. Wouldn't stop the ban if M$ used a system update to detect it. Once you had the update and switched back to the modded drive while offline your system would still get banned...I think. Good thought though....would definitely cut down on the risk.

Cmon lets be honest here more than half of the people that mod there system have no intent to backup there own games.Its to cheat the system & download games from p2p networks so they don't have to pay for them.Microsoft sells have shown that clearly how can Microsoft have 8 million more install base than Sony but move far less software.If we want to talk about this issue let clearly lay the truth out on the table & stop acting innocence when more than half of the people with modded consoles are not.But there have been some issue where Microsoft have banned people that never had a modded system & my cousin was one of those people.I have no issue with Microsoft doing this but they need to be more accurate.

There are very few legit reasons to have modded firmware. If you want homebrew, MS gives away dev tools for free and for $99 you can use your creations on a 360. So the homebrew question is out of the window.

If you're interested in trying to make your 360 into some super media center device... well it already does that legitimately. If you need more than what it offers... you're a tech head. If you're a tech head you probably have a pc that can connect directly to your TV.

As far as backing up games. I'm highly skeptical. I'm sure a MASSIVE portion of people backed up games that they purchased... and then had something like Gamefly where they backed up every game that they rented. Just in case the disc broke while they rented it or it was scratched... ;)

I know Im really in the minority, but I could care less about the bans. My 360 has been banned for about 18 months now, and the only games I played on Live were UNO and occasionally Hardwood Spades. I dont play other games on live, because to many people just quit anyways. All I play is sports games and GTA, thats it. I got well over 100 backups for the 360, but I dont look at it as taking anything from M$, because I would have only bought maybe 2 or 3 games anyways. I have had my PS3 for over a year now, and the only games I have bought for it are GTA4, MLB the Show 08, and NBA 2k9. Thats it. I have only logged into Playstation Network 3 or 4 times since I have had my PS3. Im just not into online play. Like I said, I know im in the minority.

Hello all

So is it the firm ware that gets you banned or is the pre-release game saves that get the console banned? As i know the acheivements are backed up with the server everytime you log on to xbl for the game tag recovery. Also does this mean if you use that hard drive on a flashed console playing pre-release games and then conect to xbl on an unflahed one that could mean that console could be banned also, although it is for intensive purposes "clean" but you are admiting guilt of playing dodgy games. Can some one with a bit more knowledge clarify this for me as i dont know if to buy and arcade or premium to go back on line with.

thanks

nooop

Originally posted by EricCarr:

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I know a kid in Australia who was banned and does not have any modded firmware. When his dad contacted M$, he was banned for modded console.

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Exactly, I was reading through the posts to see if someone had mentioned this, I to know of people with unmodded 360's(firmware mods etc,etc)and they have been banned too.so is it random banning or is it really a ban for modded 360's ? I would be interested to know if the people that are getting banned and have legit consoles if they in actual fact have refurbished units sold off as new

a guy who modded my xbox informed me of certain games that are "nuked". games with a strand of code in them that cannot be copied. which is how they find you to band you when you play online. i was told it was COD4, COD5, GOW,GOW2 and halo 3. are some of them.... you can play them once twice three times... twenty times online..but its just a matter of time till they get you.

and if you get banned. its not your name that gets banned. its the serial number on the xbox that gets banned. you can go out buy another one and log in to get your membership back.

Originally posted by Brian0423:

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a guy who modded my xbox informed me of certain games that are "nuked". games with a strand of code in them that cannot be copied. which is how they find you to band you when you play online. i was told it was COD4, COD5, GOW,GOW2 and halo 3. are some of them.... you can play them once twice three times... twenty times online..but its just a matter of time till they get you.

and if you get banned. its not your name that gets banned. its the serial number on the xbox that gets banned. you can go out buy another one and log in to get your membership back.

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I understand all this but it still doesn't answer my question about unmodded consoles getting banned and repaired consoles being sold off as new, is this possible ?

its possible, take a broken modded console that was banned for instance. kid probably had a two year warranty with best buy or circuit city, turned it in. got another...modded it...and is back online.. meanwhile that console sent back, stripped and sent back out possibly with the same SN?

not sure..kinda reachin on this one...

Originally posted by Brian0423:

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its possible, take a broken modded console that was banned for instance. kid probably had a two year warranty with best buy or circuit city, turned it in. got another...modded it...and is back online.. meanwhile that console sent back, stripped and sent back out possibly with the same SN?

not sure..kinda reachin on this one...

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Thanks for the reply.but as i said there are some people i know that don't have modded consoles and they have been banned, i understand about advance playing of games before the street date...but you can't with an unmodded console ? what you are talking about is what a majority of hackers and backuppers term "poison pill" in the game. as you have stated early playing this game,thats why i am kind of confused on people with legit consoles being banned and my thinking of refurbs being sold out as new if the drive doesn't need replacing i'm sure M$ won't replace it unless absolutely necassary.
it's very interesting that it only happens once a year and nearly right on the update period,granted the majority of 360's on live are modded and being banned but theres also a certain amount of unmodded 360's also getting banned.
And it takes M$ 12 months to ban these modded 360's.I can only assume why they leave it so long..monetary reasons,thats my assumption

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Its less than a week until you can back ur 360 games up on its HDD, stop complaining, alteast M$ are now giving people that actually want to backup for safety the ability to do so.

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You'saying we'll be able to back up our games on the hard drive, I'm assuming when the new firmware comes out? Nice.

What's to stop people from putting rentals on their HDD's, then deleting them when finished?

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Its less than a week until you can back ur 360 games up on its HDD, stop complaining, alteast M$ are now giving people that actually want to backup for safety the ability to do so.

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You'saying we'll be able to back up our games on the hard drive, I'm assuming when the new firmware comes out? Nice.

What's to stop people from putting rentals on their HDD's, then deleting them when finished?

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from what i understand this will be possible but you must have the game in the console...how this works i don't know,some people are saying the disc doesn't have to spin up or as fast something along those lines..if i am wrong someone will correct me.

The game will have to be in the consol but it will work with a backup. It just cuts down on loading and helps the games like GTA4 that some of us experienced render issues with.

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its possible, take a broken modded console that was banned for instance. kid probably had a two year warranty with best buy or circuit city, turned it in. got another...modded it...and is back online.. meanwhile that console sent back, stripped and sent back out possibly with the same SN?

not sure..kinda reachin on this one...

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Yes, there are modded 360's floating around out there that people don't know are modded. I personally know of at least one.... If you had a modded system and decided to sell it on ebay as a normal system then the buyer would never know it until he/she tried to put a backup in it or until he/she got banned from live. Find the person who got banned and send them a backup and let them try it....that would set all our wonders to ease.

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a guy who modded my xbox informed me of certain games that are "nuked". games with a strand of code in them that cannot be copied. which is how they find you to band you when you play online. i was told it was COD4, COD5, GOW,GOW2 and halo 3. are some of them.... you can play them once twice three times... twenty times online..but its just a matter of time till they get you.

and if you get banned. its not your name that gets banned. its the serial number on the xbox that gets banned. you can go out buy another one and log in to get your membership back.

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The games that he is talking about were games that were leaked "deliberately"....so I've heard. COD4 was the main one I heard about. If you used an original disc for the backup then this does not apply. I have personally played COD4 hundreds of times online and never gotten banned. Same with Halo 3. I wouldn't personally ever download a game.....too easy for M$ to screw with it. But I suppose if they could do it to a downloadable game they could do it to just about any game. But if you think about it.....everyone playing the downloaded game is obviously using a burned game.....maybe M$ doesn't have a way to differentiat a good xbox from a modded xbox using a real game....maybe their system only detects the actual bug they put in the download and bans everyone who uses it. Something to think about.

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Its less than a week until you can back ur 360 games up on its HDD, stop complaining, alteast M$ are now giving people that actually want to backup for safety the ability to do so.

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You'saying we'll be able to back up our games on the hard drive, I'm assuming when the new firmware comes out? Nice.

What's to stop people from putting rentals on their HDD's, then deleting them when finished?

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from what i understand this will be possible but you must have the game in the console...how this works i don't know,some people are saying the disc doesn't have to spin up or as fast something along those lines..if i am wrong someone will correct me.

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I see. It's not for backup then. It's just to make the game faster.

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I see. It's not for backup then. It's just to make the game faster.

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yes, but also it saves your 747 of a dvd drive from getting hijacked by the mystical Laser burn out gremlins.

747 is right, when i first turned mine on i was worried a council (35 miles) away were going to charge me with noise abatement. Console was stood up on end on a wooden floor. Laid the console flat and luckily it's very quiet otherwise it was going back to the shop or i was buying some big furry earmuffs.

Anyways, back to mass bannings, i'm following the 'November 2008 Ban Wave' thread here - http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/717721 but so far we have 18 pages of hearsay unfortunately, not many facts as yet..

I don't own an XBox...360 or otherwise. When my kids starting playing my old PS2, I happily installed a modchip so all my kid's games could be stored on a hard drive. Kids are hell on optical media...no matter how much you try to make them take care of the disks. They don't care NEAR as much as I do when they ruin a game because they have no real concept of $$$ when they are under 10 years of age...no matter how much you try and make them earn what they have.

There is no repair for some disks...I don't care what kind of shoe polish, tooth paste, grinding, or turtle wax you choose to use.

I also enjoyed doing homebrew SNES and Genesis emulator stuff on my PS2.

...and yes..I am a tech-head...and no...a $400 PC isn't always as cost effective or reliable as a $100 used console for a media center...

i know with my modded console i won't connect my xbox to live until after i read some postings if people are getting banned or not. is there a good thread or maybe even this one that people will report what the update will give us....other than the "sweet avitars" (yea right) and the "netflix" capabilities?

Originally posted by Brian0423:

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i know with my modded console i won't connect my xbox to live until after i read some postings if people are getting banned or not. is there a good thread or maybe even this one that people will report what the update will give us....other than the "sweet avitars" (yea right) and the "netflix" capabilities?

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here you go -
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/717721/4373610
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/719833
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/719662

thanks. i'll be checking back on it pretty much daily.


i had recently had my xbox worked on by a guy who used to be employed by microsoft to fix the red ring of death. i asked him if he thought the NXE would find the modders and ban them... he said he highly doubts it that they just want to update the dashboard to get the deal with netflix and add some avitars to compete with the wii.

as for detecting firmware for your dvd drive... he doesn't think so......but you never know.

Originally posted by criptodan:

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@ DXR88 dont use bold? dont use caps? its irritating? well how bout this

I COULD CARE LESS! I PAY FOR MY GAMES, SO I WONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE BANHAMMER!! DONT WANT TO GET BANNED? DONT BE A "PIRATE". SHAME SHAME SHAME ON YOU CHILDREN! YOU WANT TO MOD YOUR GAMING MACHINE? BUY A FREGGIN PC AND MOD THAT, SILLY TURDS :)

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Yeah your so upright and true.
I dont pay to play a game because I use PS3 and unlike you wasting money mine is free.
Go flame elsewhere if you cant post something of value.

lol.... that guy's pissed cause he calculated how much he spent on all his games.

If you ask me the way people get caught is by playing games that are downloaded from torrent sites. M$ releases some of these games that will pay fine but gives them a flag that your playing that copy. If you want to stay on live with a modded system always get the newest firmware update that your xbox was flashed with, do not download games (if you do stay away from the ones that say seed4me) , get a kreon drive and make your own copies to play, dont get bad reps from other players giving M$ a reason to look at your profile,... thats all i got for that .... my friend has had iextream FW 1.4 for a while and has not been banned, i think it is up to 1.5 now and the drive was swapped from liteon to samsung.... the people that did the mod say that many with hatachi drives were banned but the samsung drives were the safest... hope i could help