AfterDawn: Tech news

Sony: Xbox 360 is too expensive

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 09 Jan 2009 23:41 User comments (208)

Sony: Xbox 360 is too expensive Sony's marketing team has taken aim at Microsoft's Xbox 360 console in a recent press release, branding the console as too expensive and hyping the PlayStation 3 (PS3) as the best offer for your money. Specifically, Sony targeted the Xbox 360 Arcade unit, which it valued as $199. The press release claims that to get all the features of a standard 80GB PS3 model (at $399) for the Xbox 360 Arcade, you would need to spend between $449 and $499.
Sony cites the price of a Wi-Fi adapter (at $100), hard drive ($100 - $150) and an Xbox Live Gold Membership at $50 per year. Adding these to the price of an Arcade model would indeed push your overall expenditure to over $400, but interestingly, the press release did not show comparisons to the Xbox 360 Pro with a 60GB hard drive ($299) or the Xbox 360 Elite with a 120GB hard drive ($399).

Adding a Wi-Fi adapter to an Xbox 360 will cost you either way, but such a purchase depends on whether you actually require Wi-Fi, or if your setup will allow easy cable connection. Additionally, the press release claims that you will lose living room space with the Xbox 360 console when you start to buy add-ons, thus you, "add clutter to the entertainment center."

The HD DVD add-on might apply here, but that is now obsolete. The Wi-Fi add-on is very small and clips right on to the back of the Xbox 360 console. All other peripherals from controllers to cables are similar in both systems. The Wii did not escape criticism either, with the press release claiming, "the Wii's lack of enhanced features comes at the expense of a comprehensive entertainment solution."

The truth is really that whether or not the Xbox 360 will turn out more expensive than a PS3 console depends entirely on the customer that buys it, and whether they need or want a Wi-Fi add-on, a Gold membership, a hard drive (if they didn't get a model with one already, as the "choice" is the reason for the Arcade model's existence) or a defunct HD DVD add-on.

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208 user comments

110.1.2009 0:44

LOL, let the fanboy console wars begin! It's just my opinion but I think they were getting ridiculous years ago when they were charging $299 for a ps2. I like games but not in THAT price range. It's getting too expensive to even be a fast follower.


Just my 1 cent (adjusted for de-valuation).

210.1.2009 0:50

The 360 is cheap compared to what it used to be. I can see Sony making these statements back then, but now it's unnecessary, considering how well the 360 is doing in sales compared to the PS3. The only reason I can see them making this statement is to gain a bigger share in the market and have consumers think twice before buying the 360.

310.1.2009 0:53
atomicxl
Inactive

Sony is sounding like some lunatic on a videogame message board. I hear this stuff all the time on forums... but its shocking and face palmingly sad to hear it from a legitimate corporation.

Are things so bad for Sony that this is all they can fall back on?

410.1.2009 0:54

Whatever happened to judging a video game console on how well they play video games? All this other crap is nice and all but I thought the whole idea was to play games? They need to get back to concentrating on the games.
Actually the only reason I have kept my PS3 and not sold it off is because it is a great entertainment system. As an entertainment system it is leaps and bounds over the 360 but it lacks in the gaming dept. Not that there aren't any good games for it. It just doesn't live up to what the 360 has to offer. I think in time the PS3 will rise to the top of the gaming world but by then you'll be able to get one for 199 or something like that.

510.1.2009 1:01

It is true though. Coming from an owner of both, I had to buy a lot of extra crap to get my 360 equal to my PS3.

610.1.2009 1:01

Well for one I don't see any games worth buying a 360 over except maybe GoW2 but I never like GoW to begin with so I won't be getting one anytime soon... I remember when he console first came out I was actually going to get one because all of my friends were too sonner or later, but then I looked at it's lineup and i just said screw that... Now the console is half the price it was back then and I'm still not interested :/

Even my friends with 360s said that it was pretty bad because "like no games came out this year except for Gears". They're all diehard Gears players and when the first one came out they played it for like forever and then when this one came out they played it for a couple weeks and now their consoles are collecting dust again. That really surprised me...

710.1.2009 1:13
H08
Inactive

People have been saying this for months.......you know the part when you add up all the prices

810.1.2009 1:33

The fail60 is worth about 100$ with a 20GB HDD, the newest revision I would not give more than 200 for.

The PS3 tops out at 400 for the 60GB unit and the WII is worth at best 300$

910.1.2009 2:52

actually i can understand the articles point, but over all i tend to get more into multiplayers and i find the 360 to be better in that department and controllers but like any console it all depends on the person i prefer the xbox 360 for certain games cuz of the controls and the ps3 for others....love the ps3 d-pad hate the 360's... love the joysticks for fps/tps on the 360 not the ps3....but all in all the ps3 is a better console for ur buck but i just dont find myself playin mine to often besides to play movies here and there...Thats my opinion and everyone has their own and if ur not a xbox guy or wii or ps3 person its understandable they all have the good and bad but i find the xbox went cheap so they left it up to the gamer to buy add ons to save money...Sony put alot of money into the ps3 and it should out perform the xbox for the price but thats a whole other topic....

1010.1.2009 2:58

Originally posted by b18bek9:
actually i can understand the articles point, but over all i tend to get more into multiplayers and i find the 360 to be better in that department and controllers but like any console it all depends on the person i prefer the xbox 360 for certain games cuz of the controls and the ps3 for others....love the ps3 d-pad hate the 360's... love the joysticks for fps/tps on the 360 not the ps3....but all in all the ps3 is a better console for ur buck but i just dont find myself playin mine to often besides to play movies here and there...Thats my opinion and everyone has their own and if ur not a xbox guy or wii or ps3 person its understandable they all have the good and bad but i find the xbox went cheap so they left it up to the gamer to buy add ons to save money...Sony put alot of money into the ps3 and it should out perform the xbox for the price but thats a whole other topic....
Befor I sold off my fail60 due to failage and the sent the PS3 back to my friend I played the 360 alil more since it had..I dunno...games for it the PS3 at that time was a glorified PS2 with blu ray support, I want a PS3 60GB unit so far I can live withouyt the 360...altho Lost oddesy and a couple other games make me want to get a fail60 again but I will wait untill its less fail and more 360....

The PS3 has some nice games right now but most are crap you have mabye a hand full of worth while games... and that dose not make it worth its price...I mean is a grand worth 3 consoles and maybe 10 worth while games?... this new generation is so stale and shallow its making me lose interest in modern gaming...

1110.1.2009 3:46

This is to sony, if i have $250 & only $250 to spend i will by a 360 or Wii because well a PS3 is MORE EXPENSIVE! More "features" used or not used doesn't mean shit in low economic times! True the PS3 may have more features but if i have my whole house wired & no need for a BR Player then those extra features i MUST PAY extra for mean nothing! So i live in the bay area is it worth it for me to get an engine warmer for my car cause it is a god deal? I am a man i see a pair of women pants on sale should i get them cause it is a good deal?

1210.1.2009 3:49

Originally posted by ripxrush:
This is to sony, if i have $250 & only $250 to spend i will by a 360 or Wii because well a PS3 is MORE EXPENSIVE! More "features" used or not used doesn't mean shit in low economic times! True the PS3 may have more features but if i have my whole house wired & no need for a BR Player then those extra features i MUST PAY extra for mean nothing! So i live in the bay area is it worth it for me to get an engine warmer for my car cause it is a god deal? I am a man i see a pair of women pants on sale should i get them cause it is a good deal?
Meh I can buy a PS3 used for 300 if I wanted to but without PS2 BWC why bother, a 100-200$ used fail60 ain't worth my time.

And wiis only fall 50$ when sold as used....

1310.1.2009 4:26

Originally posted by ripxrush:
I am a man i see a pair of women pants on sale should i get them cause it is a good deal?
Haha lol unless your a crossdresser women's pants shouldn't interest you even if they are on sale.To be honest I agree with ZippyDSM on his comment about this generation of gaming.It really is stale and I've lost interest in gaming.




...........................:SiG cReAtEd By Phantom69:............................

1410.1.2009 4:31

Originally posted by L-Burna:
Originally posted by ripxrush:
I am a man i see a pair of women pants on sale should i get them cause it is a good deal?
Haha lol unless your a crossdresser women's pants shouldn't interest you even if they are on sale.To be honest I agree with ZippyDSM on his comment about this generation of gaming.It really is stale and I've lost interest in gaming.
I mean what if tech stuff went mass market halved in price but the data, speed,options and features where all halved as so they can dumb it down to sell tot eh masses would you still buy into High video/sound entertainment?

Sure hardware has improved but software has fallen and I find it difficult to blow money on it without it even trying to be worth what I put into it..... these are sad days for gamers as the mass market mentally is raping content down and doing nothing about the price, forget lowering the price on consoles lower the price on games because they are not worth the flash in the pan they are now.

Oh and about the pants.... depends on if they are in my size/color...or if a woman comes with themz..... hehehehehehe




Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1510.1.2009 5:27

Its actually sad the state gaming is in general as you mentioned.It revolves around online more than anything at the moment.I'm not a online gamer so most of the games that are presented don't really interest me.I would like to be an online gamer,but its not going to happen anytime soon unless I can get a decent internet connection.When I look at all the consoles for this generation they all rely on a decent internet connection,whether its for DLC media,Virtual Console,or even the Sony store.It must be nice for people that have a very good internet connection,but for those that don't they get left out.If you play any game now the single player modes are not good at all.The lack of gameplay for single player has drawn me away from playing most games.The hardware in the consoles has improved,but they all pretty much suck for people that can't get online.I think everybody can agree that single player and online play differ,and I would like a method available where you can transfer game content to the systems using some sort of storage media.The systems are locked up so tight that if any one of these systems farted it would probably create the loudest whistle of all time.They need to focus on a way people can integrate some of the online content without having to go online.From my point of view they all fail in this category.I play Madden all the time,and I can't even update the rosters for this game without going online which I think is ridiculous.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Oh and about the pants.... depends on if they are in my size/color...or if a woman comes with themz..... hehehehehehe
Haha lol yeah,but what type of woman because she could be a nag.




...........................:SiG cReAtEd By Phantom69:............................

1610.1.2009 5:56

Quote:
L-Burna]Its actually sad the state gaming is in general as you mentioned.It revolves around online more than anything at the moment.I'm not a online gamer so most of the games that are presented don't really interest me.

Do you also get raged on for not being hip and online and happy with DLC that neither finishes a under deved game nor fixes it?
I do all the time..... its like.... its one horde of zomibes I can;t hang with....

Quote:
I would like to be an online gamer,but its not going to happen anytime soon unless I can get a decent internet connection.When I look at all the consoles for this generation they all rely on a decent internet connection,whether its for DLC media,Virtual Console,or even the Sony store.It must be nice for people that have a very good internet connection,but for those that don't they get left out.

I have 60$ a month 200KBPS DSL, why I pay MS 50 a month for live?
I mean really the infrastructure is built the subscription is no longer needed.
Rant aside online and graphics are 2 leg breaking experiences for gaming, I dunno if the industry can recover with all the lax and sloppy designs going on.....

Quote:

If you play any game now the single player modes are not good at all.The lack of gameplay for single player has drawn me away from playing most games.The hardware in the consoles has improved,but they all pretty much suck for people that can't get online.I think everybody can agree that single player and online play differ,and I would like a method available where you can transfer game content to the systems using some sort of storage media.The systems are locked up so tight that if any one of these systems farted it would probably create the loudest whistle of all time.They need to focus on a way people can integrate some of the online content without having to go online.From my point of view they all fail in this category.I play Madden all the time,and I can't even update the rosters for this game without going online which I think is ridiculous.

Single player is hampered greatly by them being so focused on shortening deadlines and filling in useless extra content to sell as DLC all the while up front price for the shirking single player content is not going down, I mean I love gamming and all but this is bad sht thats happening and most people are ponying up for more brains and sinew not realizing how bad things have become.


I can't say Fallout 3 is worth 50$ but its got at least 30 hours of SP content if you can overlook small design issues.

Far cry 2 is not so bad either, I still like the first more tho..... its just not far cry without mutants and sci fi elements.

I swear since bioshock and jericho I have even trued off FPSs...and that's after getting a 400$ video card.... I eman...wheres the emat, wheres the design...all I see from shooters lately(besides FC2 and F03) are pure gun and run with no level design..its almost like a deathmath map with a story attached.... I wonder if rage will be worthy or like Doom 3 a complete let down.

I mean design issues like these are not just part of FPS games,action games as well are not as polished and RPGs are fcking scary these days with a ton of redundant play, needless time waste and crap bland equipment ontop of luke warm to dead skill systems.... and I am talking Final fantasy 12 here..sure it looks nice the story is not so bad but god good its gutted and bound by its testis.....and I fear FF13 or whatever will bad as bland....

And befor you guys start whining, sure Zelda TP,MGS4,ect is nice but are they alone worth price of admission or better yet the price of suffering to put up with non customizeable control options that make games play that much more poorly, questionable console locks and influences..... I mean things are getting to the point the people that are were laughing at the tweens 5 years ago for seeing a bad film 10 times have become tweens willing to spend hundreds more on faulty or over priced hardware, and over priced interactive bad "films"....
===================

Quote:
Haha lol yeah,but what type of woman because she could be a nag.
But like the pants shes disposable...or at least can leave on her own after play time is over..... :P

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

1710.1.2009 6:23

Originally posted by atomicxl:
Sony is sounding like some lunatic on a videogame message board. I hear this stuff all the time on forums... but its shocking and face palmingly sad to hear it from a legitimate corporation.

Are things so bad for Sony that this is all they can fall back on?
Yeah I was disappointed to see someone from Sony sink this low, I hope whoever came out publicly and these comments is fired.

1810.1.2009 7:53

wow
now sony marketing team really sound like fanboy. lol, maybe sony really hire fanboy to be their marketing team lol

Quote:

to get all the features of a standard 80GB PS3 model (at $399) for the Xbox 360 Arcade, you would need to spend between $449 and $499.
lol, if want many feature just buy the "elite".

i love my "limited" xbox 360 arcade and im already happy with xbox live silver.
my 120KB/s ADSL really lag to use to play online games lol (500ms ping lol)

1910.1.2009 9:20
Globe08
Inactive

Apparently 28 million people who bought it thought it was either better or more cost effective than the 20 million that bought the ps3.Numbers dont lie, This just doesnt look good on Sony. They are an arrogant company so it doesnt look good flinging insults or even just the PR battle. They are supposed to have the mistique and not even be in this situation but they flubbed up this go round and here they are being beat out by the so call"fail 360" so what does that say about the "Supercomputer" Ps3 that with only a year deficit and goin gup against the most technolically flawed console of alltime.Longest run on sentence right there huh LOL? But like i said before not everybody needs the wireless adapter so there saves you a $100 as the article stated. High-def dvd is a n added perk some dont see the need to splurge on.Then they go after the way who is crapping on everybody statistically.

2010.1.2009 10:58

You know what's funny here? We can all argue until the cows come home but in the end numbers don't lie. Nintendo wins, Microsoft comes in at a distant second and Sony brings up the rear. Doesn't matter what I think. Doesn't matter what you think. It's the truth. The end.

2110.1.2009 11:24

Originally posted by djeazyg:
Whatever happened to judging a video game console on how well they play video games? All this other crap is nice and all but I thought the whole idea was to play games? They need to get back to concentrating on the games.
Which is why I'm stuck on the Wii and DS so much. You can say I'm on drugs, but I enjoy most of the games more than on 360. With the 360 I always have that 1-second "wow" factor like I'm watching fireworks, but then it fizzles and is over. A few 360 gems aside, GFX don't make the game, and I agree with the earlier post about online play, though it enhances some games instead of BEING the game! There may not be "kiddie" crap on the 360/PS3, but there is still a lot of OTHER crap on it too!

As for Sony's comments, they are moot. Agreed that if there are features not being used, why pay for them? Also if I have $250, what am I going to buy? If I have $400, would I rather buy a 360/Wii with games and accessories, or a "bare bones" PS3? (BTW, this was my decision at launch time, and I went with buying a 360 and Wii rather than the $500-600 PS3 during that period.)

I really hate the NPD numbers. Who cares if X million consoles were sold. Most of the real gamers are going to purchase more than one system anyway.

2210.1.2009 11:33

Microsoft is actually selling the 20gb hdd and 3 months of xbox live to arcade owners for 30 dollars. that puts it at 230.00 (minus wifi, if you even need it). I think that is a pretty damn good deal considering all the excellent games that are out for it. The only good game out for the ps3 is Pain, and thats an arcade game.

2310.1.2009 11:36

Originally posted by huskerboy:
The only good game out for the ps3 is Pain, and thats an arcade game.
You must be a little slow...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 11:36

2410.1.2009 11:53
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by lwment:
You know what's funny here? We can all argue until the cows come home but in the end numbers don't lie. Nintendo wins, Microsoft comes in at a distant second and Sony brings up the rear. Doesn't matter what I think. Doesn't matter what you think. It's the truth. The end.

This is true my friend.


@ Zippy,

The state of gaming sucks for gamers in relation to quality games with great stroyline. Their arent enough out there. I know there are some but i dont think they care to fix it the gaming industry is doing better than ever. Were in a "reccession" and gaming sales havent skipped a beat i think they actually increased.


@ guy who doesnt have "decent internet connection"

I agree that it sucks that everything is built around online becasue it detracts away for compelling stories. We need more games like bioschock, but in all fairness online functions add to replay value. Bioschock was great and you could play it a maximum of 2 times...meanging once you beat it once you could go back for achievments but other than that it was just a classic to be shelved ass opposed to a call of duty modern warfare which had a good but short story and online to go for months to a year.

2510.1.2009 12:05

I really hope I won't be singled out for my opinions & information on this topic but I do want to make some corrections and say a few things without it becoming a personal thing. I actually wasn't going to post just to avoid a possible issue but we'll see....

Zippy ~ LIVE! isn't $50 a month it's for the year (it was most likely just a typo or a misprint) and deals can be had for as low as $40 and even every now and then $30 but those are very rare but on average $50 is the "baseline". But you have to agree LIVE! is absolutely a top notch service, it's just to bad they charge for it. Also Zippy please refrain from comments such as "fail60" is not needed and violates forum rules (you know better than that).


atomicxl ~ I absolutely agree. And truth be told the PS3 did not have the best of titles when it came out (especially against the 360's 2nd year titles). But they where not "bad" by any means for first year launch games. The 360 has had a pretty good stable of games over the last 3 years but as of late (starting with early to mid 08) MS has been running a little thin & have been relying to much on 3rd party stuff (hopefully [most likely] at E3 they will straighten that out though). But then again that is not really that bad as long as 3rd party devs turn out some great titles like GeOW2, L4D, COD5 etc. They just need more of them but what will hurt them is multiplatform titles that since 08 have been equal on both platforms. And that is where MS absolutely needs in house stuff to shine!


djeazyg ~ 2008 was actually a great year for Sony for games (especially for exclusive etc.) in comparison to MS just as Morreale said.


Japser44 ~ I can't actually say the same as I got my 360 for free because it had an RROD. So I am really ahead of the game (so to say) but my next comment kinda ties in to yours.


ripxrush ~ You are correct in your pricing but even without adding accessories like a play n charge kit, wifi etc. (as I agree not everyone needs those) you have to account for at least LIVE!. Also you are using your example for "right now" what about the Millions of early adopters who paid $3-400 for their 360's and now 3 years later have also payed for LIVE!? The up front cost may be one thing but the long term adds up. Plus please remember I am not adding anything unreasonable like WiFi, HD DVD, Play n Charge etc. Just the 360 and LIVE!.


mike.m & Globe08 ~ It is correct that the numbers don't lie as to the current standings between MS and it's lead over Sony but they aren't exactly showing the trend and path in how they got there. I have said it before (hopefully I don't sound like a broken record) but the PS3 sold 20 million in 2 years while it took the 360 almost 3 years to get to the same mark...so yes MS definitely has the lead right now over the PS3 but what I explained shows something different than the what just the totals imply. Also there is no way MS will account for broken 360's and the duplicate purchases MANY customers have definitely made.


L-Burna ~ The online issue for those who can't get online I could see being a problem, but this is a modern society and the world can't move forward without the progression of technology, which the internet has opened up by leaps and bounds! The single player issue hands down is another one I feel is really messed up. I mean even with a dual layer 50gb BD games are ranging from 10-20 hours (don't get me started with 9gb discs!) where I can remember damned NES cartridges being 80+ hours to complete!


canuckerz ~ I do agree though that it is odd & really stupid that Sony has lowered themselves to do what a competitor would do but remember Sony is more than just the PS3. The PlayStation family line of products are sold in more than 120 countries and regions worldwide! Whereas the Xbox brand is only available in maybe 40 or so?


lwment ~ Currently true.


Lastly I would like to say this. I have been said to have a tendency to "show MS in a bad way" I honestly don't mean to. I just give more information or a different view to show more than just what the media would have you beleive. Especially when there is handily a greater percentage of "doom & gloom" posts/news against Sony when clearly other factors aren't accounted for to make that "headline" grab readers for hits, traffic and ad revenue...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:17

2610.1.2009 12:11
Globe08
Inactive

@ Oner,


Couple of questions... how long do you think this gen will last? I know sony has the tech edge but it will be tough to hang around for the 10 year plan if MS and Nintendo launch new consoles around yr 8( im not saying they will just a hypathetical). Do you think Nintendo will continue this success all the way through, i mean not the crazy numbers but maintaing the lead week in and week out???Its hard to predict i know because of so many X factors but hey what else is there to do ???


Also i do see what your saying about how MS had the year headstart i just feel Nintendo made it a little hard on Sony to use that excuse/reasoning when it too released a year af MS and is stomping everybody out. Another question... Do used consoles sold at gamshops like Gamestop count towards overall sales?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:30

2710.1.2009 12:28

Originally posted by Globe08:
@ Oner,

Couple of questions... how long do you think this gen will last? I know sony has the tech edge but it will be tough to hang around for the 10 year plan if MS and Nintendo launch new consoles around yr 8( im not saying they will just a hypathetical). Do you think Nintendo will continue this success all the way through, i mean not the crazy numbers but maintaing the lead week in and week out???Its hard to predict i know because of so many X factors but hey what else is there to do ???
Well there is no standardized timetable for how long a "gen" will or could last OR in comparison to each other manufacturer but Ninty has gone between what 5-6+ on average, MS last gen only lasted 4(?) and Sony has done 5+ for PS1, 8+ and counting for PS2 & the PS3 is "expected" to be 10.

But I have been reading that Ninty might have a Wii 2 in the works for 2010-12. While MS might be by late 2010 as rumored for their "NeXtbox" (720? maybe) but I have just read a press release saying how their customers are not interested in upgrading so soon so they have plans to be around past 2012 or so? But I find that highly doubtful as the 360 is maxed out and all they have left is to go multiple discs but that won't help "processing power". Which doesn't bode well for them but I honestly beleive MS will release another console in an attempt to keep Sony (& specifically Sony NOT Ninty) from getting a true hold in the home multimedia area.

Originally posted by Globe08:
Do used consoles sold at gamshops like Gamestop count towards overall sales?
No way. Nothing used is accounted for consoles, games, accessories etc. But neither are broken ones at the sames shops. I have read that Gamestop/EB won't offer an extended warranty on the 360 because of their hardware issues. That should be an indication that it really is a problem and not some fanboy bs.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:38

2810.1.2009 12:36

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
@ Oner,

Couple of questions... how long do you think this gen will last? I know sony has the tech edge but it will be tough to hang around for the 10 year plan if MS and Nintendo launch new consoles around yr 8( im not saying they will just a hypathetical). Do you think Nintendo will continue this success all the way through, i mean not the crazy numbers but maintaing the lead week in and week out???Its hard to predict i know because of so many X factors but hey what else is there to do ???
Well there is no standardized timetable for how long a "gen" will or could last OR in comparison to each other manufacturer but Ninty has gone between what 5-6+ on average, MS last gen only lasted 4(?) and Sony has done 5+ for PS1, 8+ and counting for PS2 & the PS3 is "expected" to be 10.

But I have been reading that Ninty might have a Wii 2 in the works for 2010-12. While MS might be by late 2010 as rumored for their "NeXtbox" (720? maybe) but I have just read a press release saying how their customers are not interested in upgrading so soon so they have plans to be around past 2012 or so? But I find that highly doubtful as the 360 is maxed out and all they have left is to go multiple discs but that won't help "processing power". Which doesn't bode well for them but I honestly beleive MS will release another console in an attempt to keep Sony (& specifically Sony NOT Ninty) from getting a true hold in the home multimedia area.
So what will happen when a new MS console comes out?
Will it be too expensive to afford?
Or will it just kill the PS3?
I know that you can't answer this but what's your opinion?

2910.1.2009 12:44

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
@ Oner,

Couple of questions... how long do you think this gen will last? I know sony has the tech edge but it will be tough to hang around for the 10 year plan if MS and Nintendo launch new consoles around yr 8( im not saying they will just a hypathetical). Do you think Nintendo will continue this success all the way through, i mean not the crazy numbers but maintaing the lead week in and week out???Its hard to predict i know because of so many X factors but hey what else is there to do ???
Well there is no standardized timetable for how long a "gen" will or could last OR in comparison to each other manufacturer but Ninty has gone between what 5-6+ on average, MS last gen only lasted 4(?) and Sony has done 5+ for PS1, 8+ and counting for PS2 & the PS3 is "expected" to be 10.

But I have been reading that Ninty might have a Wii 2 in the works for 2010-12. While MS might be by late 2010 as rumored for their "NeXtbox" (720? maybe) but I have just read a press release saying how their customers are not interested in upgrading so soon so they have plans to be around past 2012 or so? But I find that highly doubtful as the 360 is maxed out and all they have left is to go multiple discs but that won't help "processing power". Which doesn't bode well for them but I honestly beleive MS will release another console in an attempt to keep Sony (& specifically Sony NOT Ninty) from getting a true hold in the home multimedia area.
So what will happen when a new MS console comes out?
Will it be too expensive to afford?
Or will it just kill the PS3?
I know that you can't answer this but what's your opinion?

Depends on how much they screw up BWC, if it has full 360 support out of the box it should sale half as many units as the total PS3 units in a year or 2 if not more.


If they cock up and continue the horrid status quo sales will be slower....

3010.1.2009 12:46

Originally posted by kikzm33z:
So what will happen when a new MS console comes out?
Will it be too expensive to afford?
Or will it just kill the PS3?
I know that you can't answer this but what's your opinion?

Hey man, I don't have all the answers nor believe that I do! lol! But MS has definitely learned their lesson by rushing their product to market an an attempt to equate them to having an advantage which has backfired (Ninty has passed them & Sony is on their butts). I do believe they will launch early at the expense of maybe losing some customers who feel burned about the original Xbox & the 360's issues etc.

But you can bet they will build something that will be extremely easy to program and code for (which devs love) and will put out a powerhouse of a system with at least a gig of ram and some ungodly strong "video card" with a top notch processor! All that is up in the air is what media and if or how big of an HDD they will maybe use.


Edit: Zippy you bring up a good point. That could quite possibly help with the retention of 360 followers.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:48

3110.1.2009 12:48

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by kikzm33z:
So what will happen when a new MS console comes out?
Will it be too expensive to afford?
Or will it just kill the PS3?
I know that you can't answer this but what's your opinion?

Hey man, I don't have all the answers nor believe that I do! lol! But MS has definitely learned their lesson by rushing their product to market an an attempt to equate them to having an advantage which has backfired (Ninty has passed them & Sony is on their butts). I do believe they will launch early at the expense of maybe losing some customers who feel burned about the original Xbox & the 360's issues etc.

But you can bet they will build something that will be extremely easy to program and code for (which devs love) and will put out a powerhouse of a system with at least a gig of ram and some ungodly strong "video card" with a top notch processor! All that is up in the air is what media and if or how big of an HDD they will maybe use.


Edit: Zippy you bring up a good point. That could quite possibly help with the retention of 360 followers.
Sadly that easy of coding is a double edge sword as publishers focus game dev more and more on disposable games....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

3210.1.2009 12:49

And stifle creative innovation. But I think we have gotten enough off topic for now...and we don't want any issues so everyone/anyone please feel free to stop in the console sections of aD! That's what they are here for too as well right!?!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:52

3310.1.2009 12:51

Originally posted by Oner:
And stifle creative innovation.
Difficult coding or publishers monopolizing the mass market industry effect?


Edit by Oner: Sorry Zippy I looked at how this was going and didn't want it to go any farther just in case so I edited after you posted but while this one was being made.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 12:54

3410.1.2009 13:09

I see the 360 as highly flawed, with the advent of plugging mouse and keyboard up to it there should have been a option from the start to play any game you want with one with full button customization that also could be down on the control pad, people could trade pad customizations on live and publishers could sell them as DLC.

Hell they could sell brandized M&KB and have it load and change settings on the fly..no we get publishers desrection on that and button mapping and that has made gaming that much worse since the lack of polishing has made some games unpalyable without high frustration levels.

Also why can't publishers use USB devices to load some content since live is becoming a neutering process?


The HDD lock is also quit laughable in this day and age.

But hell if they didn't fck over BWC from the start I would have a fail60 or 2 but no they didnt support the libary they had so I did not support them and when I broke down and bought one I had to sell it off because it broke all the time, the PS3 is nice but price+games is ass backwards, it should be half the price with more worth while games....


And I wish the wii was a more quality and sold only half as many units.... as it is now its not really better than one of those all in one game thingys you can buy for 20$ 0-o


wow...rant mode is rantalious...


Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

3510.1.2009 13:36

Quote:
Originally posted by atomicxl:
Sony is sounding like some lunatic on a videogame message board. I hear this stuff all the time on forums... but its shocking and face palmingly sad to hear it from a legitimate corporation.

Are things so bad for Sony that this is all they can fall back on?
Yeah I was disappointed to see someone from Sony sink this low, I hope whoever came out publicly and these comments is fired.

To be honest i don't have a problem with Sony doing this they are explaining some stuff that a lot of people really don't take in to account when they buy a 360 other than price.When i ask people why they got a 360 9 of 10 people say price but has no clue what the system they buy offer them out the box until its too late,then they B!tch about getting a Hard drive or Batteries for there remote etc... things that Microsoft clear don't out line,only there price.

3610.1.2009 13:42
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I see the 360 as highly flawed, with the advent of plugging mouse and keyboard up to it there should have been a option from the start to play any game you want with one with full button customization that also could be down on the control pad, people could trade pad customizations on live and publishers could sell them as DLC.

Hell they could sell brandized M&KB and have it load and change settings on the fly..no we get publishers desrection on that and button mapping and that has made gaming that much worse since the lack of polishing has made some games unpalyable without high frustration levels.


You are quite the unhappy gamer sir

Also why can't publishers use USB devices to load some content since live is becoming a neutering process?


The HDD lock is also quit laughable in this day and age.

But hell if they didn't fck over BWC from the start I would have a fail60 or 2 but no they didnt support the libary they had so I did not support them and when I broke down and bought one I had to sell it off because it broke all the time, the PS3 is nice but price+games is ass backwards, it should be half the price with more worth while games....


And I wish the wii was a more quality and sold only half as many units.... as it is now its not really better than one of those all in one game thingys you can buy for 20$ 0-o


wow...rant mode is rantalious...

3710.1.2009 13:49

Zippy, please try to go back to the topic and again refrain from using the term I described before. You are better than that and have been here long enough. Plus this is the second time I have asked nicely.


Originally posted by NexGen76:
To be honest i don't have a problem with Sony doing this they are explaining some stuff that a lot of people really don't take in to account when they buy a 360 other than price.When i ask people why they got a 360 9 of 10 people say price but has no clue what the system they buy offer them out the box until its too late,then they B!tch about getting a Hard drive or Batteries for there remote etc... things that Microsoft clear don't out line,only there price.

I have come across that a lot myself. Whether it be from a friend, a Parent (with no idea so they ask me), a co worker or even regular people in stores like BestBuy & even Gamestop.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 13:51

3810.1.2009 13:49

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I see the 360 as highly flawed, with the advent of plugging mouse and keyboard up to it there should have been a option from the start to play any game you want with one with full button customization that also could be down on the control pad, people could trade pad customizations on live and publishers could sell them as DLC.

Hell they could sell brandized M&KB and have it load and change settings on the fly..no we get publishers desrection on that and button mapping and that has made gaming that much worse since the lack of polishing has made some games unpalyable without high frustration levels.


You are quite the unhappy gamer sir

Also why can't publishers use USB devices to load some content since live is becoming a neutering process?


The HDD lock is also quit laughable in this day and age.

But hell if they didn't fck over BWC from the start I would have a fail60 or 2 but no they didnt support the libary they had so I did not support them and when I broke down and bought one I had to sell it off because it broke all the time, the PS3 is nice but price+games is ass backwards, it should be half the price with more worth while games....


And I wish the wii was a more quality and sold only half as many units.... as it is now its not really better than one of those all in one game thingys you can buy for 20$ 0-o


wow...rant mode is rantalious...

And I am not the only unhappy gamer watching what was a simi polished enthusiast hobby being turned into mass market corporate wank.

Just because its popular dose not make it less of a shallow trend.

3910.1.2009 13:58

Originally posted by Oner:
Zippy, please try to go back to the topic and again refrain from using the term I described before. You are better than that and have been here long enough. Plus this is the second time I have asked nicely.
Sorry sorry ^^, my point being there is at least 2 things MS can do to make the next console a instant "WII" hit, 1 is proper BWC, the next is unlocking the HDD, lock some of it for the OS by all means but saves and media should not be locked, DLC media can have DRM on it so it dose not have to be locked as much as verify DRM+unit number or live name.

Refined hardware that dose not fail would be nice, I doubt the console makers are even aware of control customization that is pretty much a pipe dream.

To reafrim the topic is the 360 to expensive I would have to say yes the Arcade pack should go for 100$ and not a penny more and the premium should be no more than 199. The elite can be 600$ for all I care if it had Blu ray it might be worth it..then again the the 360 guts just don't have the best HD video playing chipsets.....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

4110.1.2009 16:42

Zippy, I know you're always talking about BWC, but the companies don't care in general. It worked for the Wii and PS2, but in general, they already have your money, so why blow cash on Dev and R&D when you can pocket more profit.

4210.1.2009 17:56
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I see the 360 as highly flawed, with the advent of plugging mouse and keyboard up to it there should have been a option from the start to play any game you want with one with full button customization that also could be down on the control pad, people could trade pad customizations on live and publishers could sell them as DLC.

Hell they could sell brandized M&KB and have it load and change settings on the fly..no we get publishers desrection on that and button mapping and that has made gaming that much worse since the lack of polishing has made some games unpalyable without high frustration levels.


I still find it funny that the console that is double the price of the entry model of the 360 is calling it too expensive based off add ons to be exact to its console as if their console is the bar. Its in last place for a reason ive said it time and again. People are just sore losers, when MS is getting punished im sure they'd complain as well and id say the same things. yes they launched a year later(ps3) but that was by their design not anyone elses. They also got a break by facing the least technolocially advanced console(wii) and the most flawed from hardware perspective(360) and they arent gaining ground their losing it!When they do eventually drop a price they will too see a spike in sales and start graining ground but im not sure if thats the solution. If price were the issue as so many said then that would fall in line with this article in saying the ps3 is just as cost effective as the 360 so yet again this goes to show its not just the price. its also game selection,online functionality and other reason unknown to me.


You are quite the unhappy gamer sir

Also why can't publishers use USB devices to load some content since live is becoming a neutering process?


The HDD lock is also quit laughable in this day and age.

But hell if they didn't fck over BWC from the start I would have a fail60 or 2 but no they didnt support the libary they had so I did not support them and when I broke down and bought one I had to sell it off because it broke all the time, the PS3 is nice but price+games is ass backwards, it should be half the price with more worth while games....


And I wish the wii was a more quality and sold only half as many units.... as it is now its not really better than one of those all in one game thingys you can buy for 20$ 0-o


wow...rant mode is rantalious...

And I am not the only unhappy gamer watching what was a simi polished enthusiast hobby being turned into mass market corporate wank.

Just because its popular dose not make it less of a shallow trend.
I agree things could be better but you make it sound like gaming is unbearable at this point and i never said you were the only one just the most vocal. Most people in here like one of the big 3 but most of your posts bash all consoles available.It is what it is and its going to be that way for the next 3-6 years atleast.I too hate the wii for making things mass market oriented and forgetting about the people that got them to this point the hardcore.enthusiast gamers.And i think you put too much stock in bwc, its an added bonus but i sure wouldnt spend 250 plus bucks to play my old games i would just keep my old system if i viewed the new gen product so poorly
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 18:05

4310.1.2009 18:09
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
The truth is really that whether or not the Xbox 360 will turn out more expensive than a PS3 console depends entirely on the customer that buys it, and whether they need or want a Wi-Fi add-on, a Gold membership, a hard drive (if they didn't get a model with one already, as the "choice" is the reason for the Arcade model's existence) or a defunct HD DVD add-on.
The article say it best

4410.1.2009 19:13

"Numbers Don't Lie" ?

No but people who publish numbers do, just ask riaa

4510.1.2009 19:42

Originally posted by Globe08:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I see the 360 as highly flawed, with the advent of plugging mouse and keyboard up to it there should have been a option from the start to play any game you want with one with full button customization that also could be down on the control pad, people could trade pad customizations on live and publishers could sell them as DLC.

Hell they could sell brandized M&KB and have it load and change settings on the fly..no we get publishers desrection on that and button mapping and that has made gaming that much worse since the lack of polishing has made some games unpalyable without high frustration levels.


I still find it funny that the console that is double the price of the entry model of the 360 is calling it too expensive based off add ons to be exact to its console as if their console is the bar. Its in last place for a reason ive said it time and again. People are just sore losers, when MS is getting punished im sure they'd complain as well and id say the same things. yes they launched a year later(ps3) but that was by their design not anyone elses. They also got a break by facing the least technolocially advanced console(wii) and the most flawed from hardware perspective(360) and they arent gaining ground their losing it!When they do eventually drop a price they will too see a spike in sales and start graining ground but im not sure if thats the solution. If price were the issue as so many said then that would fall in line with this article in saying the ps3 is just as cost effective as the 360 so yet again this goes to show its not just the price. its also game selection,online functionality and other reason unknown to me.


You are quite the unhappy gamer sir

Also why can't publishers use USB devices to load some content since live is becoming a neutering process?


The HDD lock is also quit laughable in this day and age.

But hell if they didn't fck over BWC from the start I would have a fail60 or 2 but no they didnt support the libary they had so I did not support them and when I broke down and bought one I had to sell it off because it broke all the time, the PS3 is nice but price+games is ass backwards, it should be half the price with more worth while games....


And I wish the wii was a more quality and sold only half as many units.... as it is now its not really better than one of those all in one game thingys you can buy for 20$ 0-o


wow...rant mode is rantalious...

And I am not the only unhappy gamer watching what was a simi polished enthusiast hobby being turned into mass market corporate wank.

Just because its popular dose not make it less of a shallow trend.
I agree things could be better but you make it sound like gaming is unbearable at this point and i never said you were the only one just the most vocal. Most people in here like one of the big 3 but most of your posts bash all consoles available.It is what it is and its going to be that way for the next 3-6 years atleast.I too hate the wii for making things mass market oriented and forgetting about the people that got them to this point the hardcore.enthusiast gamers.And i think you put too much stock in bwc, its an added bonus but i sure wouldnt spend 250 plus bucks to play my old games i would just keep my old system if i viewed the new gen product so poorly
It is for me thus why I have backed out and not ready to jump back in just yet.

But again I am focusing on price V cost and its not just there if you don't already have a system.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

4610.1.2009 19:59

Originally posted by beanos66:
"Numbers Don't Lie" ?

No but people who publish numbers do, just ask riaa
Yeah, your right about RIAA but I don't think EVERY major financial firm that reports on console sales is falsifying numbers. And they ALL say it's Nintendo, Microsoft then Sony. Sorry, but facts are facts. Doesn't mean one console is any better than the other in all ways. Just sales.

4710.1.2009 20:02

Quote:
Originally posted by beanos66:
"Numbers Don't Lie" ?

No but people who publish numbers do, just ask riaa
Yeah, your right about RIAA but I don't think EVERY major financial firm that reports on console sales is falsifying numbers. And they ALL say it's Nintendo, Microsoft then Sony. Sorry, but facts are facts. Doesn't mean one console is any better than the other in all ways. Just sales.
Ya even if you reduce the 360 numbers by 30% they still are 2nd place.

Both sony and MS have been known to make silly statements in a crazy PR gambit...hopfully for the next a couple of years they can;t afford such nonsense...

4810.1.2009 20:23
lynchgoop
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by huskerboy:
The only good game out for the ps3 is Pain, and thats an arcade game.
You must be a little slow...

Resistance rocks and is only available for PS3.

PS3 has been tested and compare over and over and over and over again to the XBOX. Shading on PS3 is substandard and EVERY GAME available on BOTH platforms is shown superior by XBOX to that of PS3. Wifi is needed by only half the population out there and any smart gamer would know better than to online game via wifi. Hung connections and all.

What is bothering is that MS charger people up the ass to get a fricking 100GB HDD increase. What bullshit. Marketing ploy and raping customers for that one.

I like PS3 but XBOX definitively blow PS3 out of the water in every aspect..............game selection, quality, graphics and is COMPARABLE in hardware.

Ba Bye PS3................you're day is done.

And..............the WII RULES. I leave hardcore gaming to my computer which is pimped because I'm the shit, and I know my shit.

4910.1.2009 20:34
lynchgoop
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
I really hope I won't be singled out for my opinions & information on this topic but I do want to make some corrections and say a few things without it becoming a personal thing. I actually wasn't going to post just to avoid a possible issue but we'll see....

Zippy ~ LIVE! isn't $50 a month it's for the year (it was most likely just a typo or a misprint) and deals can be had for as low as $40 and even every now and then $30 but those are very rare but on average $50 is the "baseline". But you have to agree LIVE! is absolutely a top notch service, it's just to bad they charge for it. Also Zippy please refrain from comments such as "fail60" is not needed and violates forum rules (you know better than that).




atomicxl ~ I absolutely agree. And truth be told the PS3 did not have the best of titles when it came out (especially against the 360's 2nd year titles). But they where not "bad" by any means for first year launch games. The 360 has had a pretty good stable of games over the last 3 years but as of late (starting with early to mid 08) MS has been running a little thin & have been relying to much on 3rd party stuff (hopefully [most likely] at E3 they will straighten that out though). But then again that is not really that bad as long as 3rd party devs turn out some great titles like GeOW2, L4D, COD5 etc. They just need more of them but what will hurt them is multiplatform titles that since 08 have been equal on both platforms. And that is where MS absolutely needs in house stuff to shine!


djeazyg ~ 2008 was actually a great year for Sony for games (especially for exclusive etc.) in comparison to MS just as Morreale said.


Japser44 ~ I can't actually say the same as I got my 360 for free because it had an RROD. So I am really ahead of the game (so to say) but my next comment kinda ties in to yours.


ripxrush ~ You are correct in your pricing but even without adding accessories like a play n charge kit, wifi etc. (as I agree not everyone needs those) you have to account for at least LIVE!. Also you are using your example for "right now" what about the Millions of early adopters who paid $3-400 for their 360's and now 3 years later have also payed for LIVE!? The up front cost may be one thing but the long term adds up. Plus please remember I am not adding anything unreasonable like WiFi, HD DVD, Play n Charge etc. Just the 360 and LIVE!.


mike.m & Globe08 ~ It is correct that the numbers don't lie as to the current standings between MS and it's lead over Sony but they aren't exactly showing the trend and path in how they got there. I have said it before (hopefully I don't sound like a broken record) but the PS3 sold 20 million in 2 years while it took the 360 almost 3 years to get to the same mark...so yes MS definitely has the lead right now over the PS3 but what I explained shows something different than the what just the totals imply. Also there is no way MS will account for broken 360's and the duplicate purchases MANY customers have definitely made.


L-Burna ~ The online issue for those who can't get online I could see being a problem, but this is a modern society and the world can't move forward without the progression of technology, which the internet has opened up by leaps and bounds! The single player issue hands down is another one I feel is really messed up. I mean even with a dual layer 50gb BD games are ranging from 10-20 hours (don't get me started with 9gb discs!) where I can remember damned NES cartridges being 80+ hours to complete!


canuckerz ~ I do agree though that it is odd & really stupid that Sony has lowered themselves to do what a competitor would do but remember Sony is more than just the PS3. The PlayStation family line of products are sold in more than 120 countries and regions worldwide! Whereas the Xbox brand is only available in maybe 40 or so?


lwment ~ Currently true.


Lastly I would like to say this. I have been said to have a tendency to "show MS in a bad way" I honestly don't mean to. I just give more information or a different view to show more than just what the media would have you beleive. Especially when there is handily a greater percentage of "doom & gloom" posts/news against Sony when clearly other factors aren't accounted for to make that "headline" grab readers for hits, traffic and ad revenue...





"mike.m & Globe08 ~ It is correct that the numbers don't lie as to the current standings between MS and it's lead over Sony but they aren't exactly showing the trend and path in how they got there. I have said it before (hopefully I don't sound like a broken record) but the PS3 sold 20 million in 2 years while it took the 360 almost 3 years to get to the same mark...so yes MS definitely has the lead right now over the PS3 but what I explained shows something different than the what just the totals imply. Also there is no way MS will account for broken 360's and the duplicate purchases MANY customers have definitely made.
mike.m & Globe08 ~ It is correct that the numbers don't lie as to the current standings between MS and it's lead over Sony but they aren't exactly showing the trend and path in how they got there. I have said it before (hopefully I don't sound like a broken record) but the PS3 sold 20 million in 2 years while it took the 360 almost 3 years to get to the same mark...so yes MS definitely has the lead right now over the PS3 but what I explained shows something different than the what just the totals imply. Also there is no way MS will account for broken 360's and the duplicate purchases MANY customers have definitely made."

I don't believe this statement for a second. Back it up or pipe down Mr. Moderator!!! 20 million units my ass. As of May 08 is was 12.5 million and XBox has steadily outsold them. Sony has reported losses significantly higher than that of MS. Keep in mind............after a period of time when everyone that wants an Xbox actually has one then sales slow. But arguing symantecs with an AD moderator is like banging my head against a brick wall..............Amusing at the beginning but painful after a second or two.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2009 @ 20:35

5010.1.2009 20:35

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by huskerboy:
The only good game out for the ps3 is Pain, and thats an arcade game.
You must be a little slow...

Resistance rocks and is only available for PS3.

PS3 has been tested and compare over and over and over and over again to the XBOX. Shading on PS3 is substandard and EVERY GAME available on BOTH platforms is shown superior by XBOX to that of PS3. Wifi is needed by only half the population out there and any smart gamer would know better than to online game via wifi. Hung connections and all.

What is bothering is that MS charger people up the ass to get a fricking 100GB HDD increase. What bullshit. Marketing ploy and raping customers for that one.

I like PS3 but XBOX definitively blow PS3 out of the water in every aspect..............game selection, quality, graphics and is COMPARABLE in hardware.

Ba Bye PS3................you're day is done.

And..............the WII RULES. I leave hardcore gaming to my computer which is pimped because I'm the shit, and I know my shit.
Yes the wii rules all, I only paritailly kid about being like those all in one 20$ game thingys. The WII is in tis own lil world thats sitting at the top of the indutry.

But that aside the 360 and PS3 are testing the bounds of the console war model, with prices so high for consumer and dev/pub alike the only thing to be broken is exclusivity as less and less titles become console specific there becomes little difference in the systems, when that tilting point hits who every gains the less amount of consumers instantly loses as they can not keep up with the high cost and slow sales.


Frankly at 20M units sold the PS3 is about 7M units away from the 360, the 360 did not have so may units sold in a mere 2 years I believe, so all in all the PS3 is doing well enough despite itself and I can say the same for the 360 which has been as much as a nightmare and a blessing for MS.

5110.1.2009 20:37
lynchgoop
Inactive

Xbox game sales have blown the PS3 away............'nough said.

5210.1.2009 20:41

Originally posted by lynchgoop:
Xbox game sales have blown the PS3 away............'nough said.
And the WII has sold more games, youer point? ^^

5310.1.2009 23:43

I don't have a problem w/ Sony making this claim either. With SO many $200 vs. $400 marketing comparisons going on, someone SHOULD be pointing out what little that $200 gets you. I even notice some 360 fanboys comparing prices using REFURBISHED add-ons pricing. No serious gamer I know would be buying that machine, but rather the Pro or Elite models. The only thing I agree with is WiFi...yes, it's built-in on all PS3s and probably inexpensive (~$20-40 at most, perhaps, compared to $90 street price for the 360 add-on), but still isn't a real necessity. I would ALWAYS prefer a WIRED connection anyway -- WiFi is something to use only if you really NEED to. Speaking of wired connections, the PS3 also has Gigabit Ethernet whereas the 360 is 100Base-T (not a problem for most, but could see a benefit with multiplayer over LAN and streaming media over LAN).

RE: Next Xbox backward-compatibility: Supposedly Intel is highly courting M$ to use an Intel CPU in the next console...if that's the case, you can almost definitely count out 360-compatibility unless the CPU is fast enough to emulate a 3.2GHz PowerPC-based Xenon (CPU emulation usually runs up to around 10% of the host system speed, so a non-similar architecture CPU would need to be at least 10X more powerful) or put in some of the original 360 hardware to handle it (adding ~$40-75 or so to the new console price).

A personal note on backward-compatibility... I agree new products like game consoles should be backward-compatible when reasonable to do so (can you imagine if DVD drives couldn't read CDs???), but if cost-prohibitive, it may be better to offer as an add-on somehow instead of not offering it at all. That way, the 'base unit' cost is kept down (except for the minimal cost of having a bay/slot for the add-on) and only those who really want the feature can pay the extra for it.

5410.1.2009 23:47

Originally posted by lynchgoop:
I don't believe this statement for a second. Back it up or pipe down Mr. Moderator!!! 20 million units my ass. As of May 08 is was 12.5 million and XBox has steadily outsold them. Sony has reported losses significantly higher than that of MS. Keep in mind............after a period of time when everyone that wants an Xbox actually has one then sales slow. But arguing symantecs with an AD moderator is like banging my head against a brick wall..............Amusing at the beginning but painful after a second or two.

You seem to be taking this to a personal level. Ain't gonna happen this time around, I'm nipping it in the butt right now. So you are the only one who really needs to "pipe down"...so, seriously, tone it down a notch and have a discussion, not an argument. OK?

Now since you asked for proof here you go (but may I ask where are you getting your information/proof? As it's only fair)....I have to say this before I actually begin though. I absolutely HATE using this site for #'s (as they have been shown to pad certain console sales numbers towards the end of the year) but there is one saving grace...since most of the numbers have been released by NPD, Media Create, partial GFK, Ninty & Sony recently for 2008 (I think there is some minor missing info here and there but it really doesn't affect me needing to show "proof" as requested)

It's VGChartz. Yeah yeah, I know...but as I said they have recently adjusted their numbers to reflect what the trusted "counters" have provided and this is one of those times where you can actually refer to them for a short period of time, so here we go :)







^^^This last one is just madness!!!^^^

Now it is widely known that the 360 was stalled at around 21-23 Million just before their 2nd price drop (within a year). But that is where they KILLED in sales against the PS3, but remember that started around September and the effects of the price drop didn't start to show until about the middle of October; as people where getting ready for the Christmas season and especially on Black Friday (but that is for the States only). So since the PS3 has only been out for 2 years it is obvious they have hit the 20 Million mark quicker than the 360. And before it becomes an issue, yes I do notice that VGC shows the PS3 @ 19.46 Mill but all the GFK (EU) info isn't in just yet and I think even part of NPD (for Dec?) but I think everyone can understand that.

Also Sony for the first 8 months out of 2008 where consistently outselling the 360 worldwide (again all widely known and verifiable via google, VGC, and numerous gaming sites) at their always higher price point. I knew it was going to be close for 2008, and it really was a toss up! But in the end the 360 did outsell the PS3 for 2008 (and I even said that is what most likely would happen quite a few times).

So there you go, 20 Million for the PS3. Is that satisfactory for you, or do you need more? :)


Originally posted by lynchgoop:
Xbox game sales have blown the PS3 away............'nough said.
Verifiable proof, links & documentation please to back that statement up ;) it works both ways here remember!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 0:07

5511.1.2009 0:07

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:
I don't have a problem w/ Sony making this claim either. With SO many $200 vs. $400 marketing comparisons going on, someone SHOULD be pointing out what little that $200 gets you. I even notice some 360 fanboys comparing prices using REFURBISHED add-ons pricing. No serious gamer I know would be buying that machine, but rather the Pro or Elite models. The only thing I agree with is WiFi...yes, it's built-in on all PS3s and probably inexpensive (~$20-40 at most, perhaps, compared to $90 street price for the 360 add-on), but still isn't a real necessity. I would ALWAYS prefer a WIRED connection anyway -- WiFi is something to use only if you really NEED to. Speaking of wired connections, the PS3 also has Gigabit Ethernet whereas the 360 is 100Base-T (not a problem for most, but could see a benefit with multiplayer over LAN and streaming media over LAN).

RE: Next Xbox backward-compatibility: Supposedly Intel is highly courting M$ to use an Intel CPU in the next console...if that's the case, you can almost definitely count out 360-compatibility unless the CPU is fast enough to emulate a 3.2GHz PowerPC-based Xenon (CPU emulation usually runs up to around 10% of the host system speed, so a non-similar architecture CPU would need to be at least 10X more powerful) or put in some of the original 360 hardware to handle it (adding ~$40-75 or so to the new console price).

A personal note on backward-compatibility... I agree new products like game consoles should be backward-compatible when reasonable to do so (can you imagine if DVD drives couldn't read CDs???), but if cost-prohibitive, it may be better to offer as an add-on somehow instead of not offering it at all. That way, the 'base unit' cost is kept down (except for the minimal cost of having a bay/slot for the add-on) and only those who really want the feature can pay the extra for it.

Well they have to plan better, sony is desperate after all since they are pushing the bounds of price and it screwed up their BWC focus and direction because of it.

MS didn't have much of a choice altho loss of BWC out of the box was fallout when they changed from ninvidia to ati .

Moduler design dose seem the best as they can raise the price of the device to offset costs some, IE a 40$ chip set would be a 60$ module with a final street price of 80-100$ might take some R&D and time but it beats a 10% price increase on the base unit.....
-----
Oner

Stupid thought that needs an answer.

I know at a individual dev/pub level the WII dose not rake in huge profits but for nin, but would be wrong in saying that the WII sales more games, I mean once you factor in unit sales X the attach rate the numbers seem higher and higher numbers on a industry scale means more profit for the industry as a whole.

What I am getting at is it playing with numbers to trump things up when one says the wii dose push more titles out the door than any other console? The answer seems to be both yes and no...of coarse that could be the voices in my head rattling off... 0-o

5611.1.2009 0:33

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Oner

Stupid thought that needs an answer.

I know at a individual dev/pub level the WII dose not rake in huge profits but for nin, but would be wrong in saying that the WII sales more games, I mean once you factor in unit sales X the attach rate the numbers seem higher and higher numbers on a industry scale means more profit for the industry as a whole.

What I am getting at is it playing with numbers to trump things up when one says the wii dose push more titles out the door than any other console? The answer seems to be both yes and no...of coarse that could be the voices in my head rattling off... 0-o
You bring up a good conundrum of which I won't be able to answer tonight as I am done. Hopefully someone else would be able to offer a good insight in to that with some solid info....but it's time for me to get some rest and think about that one over night but I can say really quick how I could see what you mean about it being yes & no. Thus the conundrum...g'night peoples.

5711.1.2009 0:42

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Oner

Stupid thought that needs an answer.

I know at a individual dev/pub level the WII dose not rake in huge profits but for nin, but would be wrong in saying that the WII sales more games, I mean once you factor in unit sales X the attach rate the numbers seem higher and higher numbers on a industry scale means more profit for the industry as a whole.

What I am getting at is it playing with numbers to trump things up when one says the wii dose push more titles out the door than any other console? The answer seems to be both yes and no...of coarse that could be the voices in my head rattling off... 0-o
You bring up a good conundrum of which I won't be able to answer tonight as I am done. Hopefully someone else would be able to offer a good insight in to that with some solid info....but it's time for me to get some rest and think about that one over night but I can say really quick how I could see what you mean about it being yes & no. Thus the conundrum...g'night peoples.

Ya I mean up front you have the numbers but you break them down and the revenue is lop sided, while as a whole it brings in lots of rev to the industry the parts it greases are not that beniftail to the industry as a whole.

While say the 360 attach rate and the rev from the game sales goes into wider sweep of dev/pubs which is at the very least more beniftail than feeding a couple of giants.

I never diss the 360 on what it makes it rakes in alot of rev, I dis the direction of products and the hardware issues the most I still call the 360 this generations PS2, despite its variety issues. You can't pigeon hole the wii its monolithic and a huge fad/trend, the PS3 is catching up well enough but the over all under currents and vibrations I get from this generation..well..are apathetic...but then I am rambling on again >< *whacks self with news paper*


Have a good night man ^^

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

5811.1.2009 12:16
lynchgoop
Inactive

Edited for content that violates forum rules.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 15:00

5911.1.2009 12:25
lynchgoop
Inactive

Edited for content that violates forum rules.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 15:01

6011.1.2009 14:01
Globe08
Inactive

Why cant we be friends? Why cant we be friends (insert melody)...

6111.1.2009 14:18
Globe08
Inactive

You know what erks me??? This whole sports being touted as the best selling game ever. It is a bundle and therefore should not be in same catergory as a "Game sales".If you notice wii sports has sold exactly the same amount of games as the wii consoles.Is the game even offerd sepearately? This is a mockery of game statistics!!! How can a game recieve the title "GREATEST SELLING GAME OF ALL TIME" and you dont have the choice in the matter of getting it or not its FREE!


OFF TOPIC I KNOW ^^^^^ but i missed the article the other day and am just generally agitated by it



@aD Mods,staff members alike.... we got to make more sense out of posts in the news section not going towards member status. how can you have the opening page with all the main articles not carry weight in terms of participation to the Site???

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 14:20

6211.1.2009 14:59

Just so everybody knows; I didn't ban him.

I guess Lynch doesn't believe in "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" when it comes to having to providing proof to back up his statements, whereas I ALWAYS seem to have to (and do every time)...double standard anyone?

I would like to add this last thing and move on. Why is it people make asinine assumptions about peoples education, status in life and such? Seems quite immature to make such comments about something there is absolutely no way of knowing without asking or knowing them personally?

Whatever....Just goes to show/confirm how it becomes a personal thing TOWARDS me and not TOWARDS what I say.


6311.1.2009 15:02
varnull
Inactive

I can't see why we are even wasting our time discussing some retarded lump of propaganda from $ony.. it's their opinion, and sales and history show where $ony stand with regards to people who buy their product.

It doesn't matter one bit what $ony thik a 360 is worth.. because they can't sell their gamelsss though apparently "feature packed" multimedia system sporting a failing HD disk format to anybody with a brain.

Zippy I like.. the "fail360".. but thats the shoddy manufacturing, which they could have solved if they were to use better manufacurers instead of the factories that used to make amstrad and saisho junk (look em up.. bottom shelf korea and taiwan junk makers)
$ony have an over priced lump of something that doesn't know what it wants to be.. If they had made it front loading rack mountable so it could live with your dvd player and hi-fi kit it might have done better as a multimedia device.. but as it is it's a non-starter.. always has been.. and the reliability is suspect too now they are just out of warranty.

Tendo wins.. a games console is for playing games.. even M$ worked that one out eventually.. If they had stuck a HD-DVD drive in the beast straight off the BR vs HD war might have come out very differently, but we don't expect intelligence from M$ or $ony.. both latecomers in the games console market..

6411.1.2009 15:40

i am asking if u can take an external harddrive and connect it to your 360 and save your games on it and run the game from the external hard drive. i have an external hard drive for my computer and i save my movies on it so i can watch them without haveing a dvd shelf cluttering my living room, would i be able to piggy my external hard drive to my comp and 360 so i have my games on there as well????

6511.1.2009 16:35

This is not the area to ask that gravedigr (that would be here). But to answer you question. No. The 360 will not do that. The new NXE update will allow you to "copy" your games to the 360's HDD but you will also have to have the physical disc in the drive in order to play it. Though I am sure there has to be some team working on that kind of a feature (and a no-disc hack) as we speak...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 16:37

6611.1.2009 16:52

Originally posted by Globe08:
You know what erks me??? This whole sports being touted as the best selling game ever. It is a bundle and therefore should not be in same catergory as a "Game sales".If you notice wii sports has sold exactly the same amount of games as the wii consoles.Is the game even offerd sepearately? This is a mockery of game statistics!!! How can a game recieve the title "GREATEST SELLING GAME OF ALL TIME" and you dont have the choice in the matter of getting it or not its FREE!



wii sports is sold separately but comes with a second controller, and is the cheapest way to get one, that is why nearly everybody buys it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Jan 2009 @ 16:53

6711.1.2009 17:33

Originally posted by varnull:
I can't see why we are even wasting our time discussing some retarded lump of propaganda from $ony.. it's their opinion, and sales and history show where $ony stand with regards to people who buy their product.

It doesn't matter one bit what $ony thik a 360 is worth.. because they can't sell their gamelsss though apparently "feature packed" multimedia system sporting a failing HD disk format to anybody with a brain.

Zippy I like.. the "fail360".. but thats the shoddy manufacturing, which they could have solved if they were to use better manufacurers instead of the factories that used to make amstrad and saisho junk (look em up.. bottom shelf korea and taiwan junk makers)
$ony have an over priced lump of something that doesn't know what it wants to be.. If they had made it front loading rack mountable so it could live with your dvd player and hi-fi kit it might have done better as a multimedia device.. but as it is it's a non-starter.. always has been.. and the reliability is suspect too now they are just out of warranty.

Tendo wins.. a games console is for playing games.. even M$ worked that one out eventually.. If they had stuck a HD-DVD drive in the beast straight off the BR vs HD war might have come out very differently, but we don't expect intelligence from M$ or $ony.. both latecomers in the games console market..
I primary diss the build job on the 360, thus fail60. Outside of that its a ok system as they all are but with the build issues its not worth the MSRP..... AS for sony well it is a bit much price wise but at least the build job is not laughable, as for the WII well.... its alot like the PS3 not enough games to make it worth 300+.....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

6811.1.2009 17:40

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
You know what erks me??? This whole sports being touted as the best selling game ever. It is a bundle and therefore should not be in same catergory as a "Game sales".If you notice wii sports has sold exactly the same amount of games as the wii consoles.Is the game even offerd sepearately? This is a mockery of game statistics!!! How can a game recieve the title "GREATEST SELLING GAME OF ALL TIME" and you dont have the choice in the matter of getting it or not its FREE!



wii sports is sold separately but comes with a second controller, and is the cheapest way to get one, that is why nearly everybody buys it.
You're talking about Wii Play.

Wii Sports have so much sales because it's bundle with a Wii.

6911.1.2009 17:53
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
You know what erks me??? This whole sports being touted as the best selling game ever. It is a bundle and therefore should not be in same catergory as a "Game sales".If you notice wii sports has sold exactly the same amount of games as the wii consoles.Is the game even offerd sepearately? This is a mockery of game statistics!!! How can a game recieve the title "GREATEST SELLING GAME OF ALL TIME" and you dont have the choice in the matter of getting it or not its FREE!



wii sports is sold separately but comes with a second controller, and is the cheapest way to get one, that is why nearly everybody buys it.

Oh i thought that was wii-play that was sold seperately. Then in this case that it is sold separately it still shows that there a 46 million consoles sold and i bet every damn one of them needed a second controller so they bought the controller with a game that was cheaper than buying just the controller.Either way its a mockery of gaming. To have headlines saying it dethroned mario as the best selling game of all time....cant believe nintendo even allowed that.

7011.1.2009 17:58
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
You know what erks me??? This whole sports being touted as the best selling game ever. It is a bundle and therefore should not be in same catergory as a "Game sales".If you notice wii sports has sold exactly the same amount of games as the wii consoles.Is the game even offerd sepearately? This is a mockery of game statistics!!! How can a game recieve the title "GREATEST SELLING GAME OF ALL TIME" and you dont have the choice in the matter of getting it or not its FREE!





It suprises me that both you responded but dont really have a view one way or the other as to it being crap that it counts as a game sale when its clear as day people dont buy it for the game they buy it because its cost effiecient in terms of getting another controller on a party console
wii sports is sold separately but comes with a second controller, and is the cheapest way to get one, that is why nearly everybody buys it.
You're talking about Wii Play.

Wii Sports have so much sales because it's bundle with a Wii.

7212.1.2009 3:03

Sorry, i always get wii sports and wii play mixed up!

7312.1.2009 9:12
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
Wii Sports = Bundles with Wii

Wii Play = Different game & controller
EITHER WAY ITS CRAP....JEEEEEE IT suprises me that people are responding correcting me then correcting one another but have no real opinion on the fact that either way its BS cause its essentially a FREE videogame.

7412.1.2009 12:10

Hey a free game when you have to buy an extra controller isn't all that bad.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2009 @ 12:12

7512.1.2009 12:59
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
Hey a free game when you have to buy an extra controller isn't all that bad.
My man your missing the point! I am not knocking the promotion m knocking the notion that the game which people could care less about is snagging the title of best selling game of all time by default. Come on Oner your way to smart to have missed that point 3 times now...Bozzing a little bit over there???

7612.1.2009 13:03
Globe08
Inactive

I meant Boozing not Bozzing and since it wouldnt let me edit i did it the old fashioned way LOL

Quote:

Don't look for Microsoft's Xbox "Next" anytime soon, says company President Robbie Bach.


Not coming anytime soon
According to Bloomberg, Bach says Microsoft's planning to stick by the Xbox 360 longer than the original Xbox because "it's getting harder to persuade consumers to upgrade."

What's more, Bach says the current console lineup's outputting groovy enough visuals that it'd take some serious arm-twisting to convince us to upgrade in the near term.

"Just coming up with something that's faster and prettier isn't going to cut it"
Quote:

[url=http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/208554/no-new-xbox-because-faster-and-prettier-doesnt-cut-it/][/url]
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2009 @ 13:06

7712.1.2009 13:52
ajimmy92
Inactive

Originally posted by L-Burna:
Originally posted by ripxrush:
I am a man i see a pair of women pants on sale should i get them cause it is a good deal?
Haha lol unless your a crossdresser women's pants shouldn't interest you even if they are on sale.To be honest I agree with ZippyDSM on his comment about this generation of gaming.It really is stale and I've lost interest in gaming.
May be you're getting too old to play games? I believe games in this generation are awesome. They may not be as much as the PS2 and Xbox gen but new styles of games like Assassin's Creed, Gears 2, Mirrors Edge and others are absolutely interesting. Not to mention the innovations and improvements made in FIFA 09 and of course, GTA IV.

7812.1.2009 14:44

As somebody who owns all three systems, PS3 hands down is the winner.

Wii is okay from time to time, really don't know why I bought the thing.

Xbox360 is decent but for eff's sake that thing has been/is the most expensive system on the market.

While I paid a little more up front with Sony, I know I'm not getting nickeled and dimed to death with their system.

With X360 its a $100 here another $100 there, ect...

7912.1.2009 14:53
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by rosedog:
As somebody who owns all three systems, PS3 hands down is the winner.

Wii is okay from time to time, really don't know why I bought the thing.

Xbox360 is decent but for eff's sake that thing has been/is the most expensive system on the market.

While I paid a little more up front with Sony, I know I'm not getting nickeled and dimed to death with their system.

With X360 its a $100 here another $100 there, ect...
Luckily for MS there are 7-8 million people that disagree with you and lucky for Nintendo there are about 26 million people who went the other way and disagree with us BOTH

8012.1.2009 14:53

Originally posted by Globe08:
Originally posted by Oner:
Hey a free game when you have to buy an extra controller isn't all that bad.
My man your missing the point! I am not knocking the promotion m knocking the notion that the game which people could care less about is snagging the title of best selling game of all time by default. Come on Oner your way to smart to have missed that point 3 times now...Boozing a little bit over there???
I didn't miss it. I actually agree 100% with it as it is fact (and thought that would be common knowledge). I just wanted to say it wasn't bad for a "free" game. You know..."don't look a gift horse in the mouth" etc.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2009 @ 14:54

8112.1.2009 17:14
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
Originally posted by Oner:
Hey a free game when you have to buy an extra controller isn't all that bad.
My man your missing the point! I am not knocking the promotion m knocking the notion that the game which people could care less about is snagging the title of best selling game of all time by default. Come on Oner your way to smart to have missed that point 3 times now...Boozing a little bit over there???
I didn't miss it. I actually agree 100% with it as it is fact (and thought that would be common knowledge). I just wanted to say it wasn't bad for a "free" game. You know..."don't look a gift horse in the mouth" etc.

Your a bit too stubborn my friend, if you agreed say so and leave it at that no analogy was needed. Even in saying what you said it wasnt all that clear. You 100% agree that it is crap or agree 100% that it is the best selling game of all time?We all know it is the best selling this is true but that doesnt take away from the fact it is a crap game and shouldnt have the title of best selling game of all time as it is only by default!

8212.1.2009 17:26

WTH is up with the stubborn comment? How is that pertinent to the question or topic? You asked me something and I replied. What are you the analogy police? Just accept what I said, move on or even better just talk without the side bs that is trivial & inconsequential. Don't try and make it into something when it's not a big deal....especially when you seem to be the only one tripping about WiiPlay. Even when I agree I get crap for it now too? Jeez.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2009 @ 17:28

8312.1.2009 21:03
Globe08
Inactive

will do

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jan 2009 @ 21:09

8413.1.2009 2:13

Sony beats down on the 360 pointing out its deficiencies and costly add-ons out of frustration. A tactic used to promote sales, but by doing this Sony is only demonstrating its impotency struggling like a fish out of water. Real pitiful if you ask me. Advanced technology doesn't necessary mean instant success. The Sega Saturn was superior graphically than the PSX, but its lack of titles and hardware performance ended up being its demise. Sony claims to have the most advanced console on the market. I say peak it already, let everybody witness the console's true potential. Phrases like: "we have not peaked the PS3 to its full potential" What does that mean? It means absolutely nothing, more talk than walk. Being late out of the gate and manufacturing delays has really hurt the PS3.

8513.1.2009 8:52

locobrown - I could understand where you are coming from but with all Playstation brand consoles there has always been a learning curve, and this has worked for them in the long run (as they have already proven this). For example look at an early PS2 game like Tomb Raider in comparison to God of War 2. Leaps and Bounds of a difference.

The same is absolutely holding true with the PS3, and [started or starting] to show with titles like Motorstorm 1 & 2, Uncharted, GT5P, Heavenly Sword, MGS4 and especially Killzone 2 (to name a few) coming up next month! Keep an eye out if you would like at this years GDC. They are planning to show/explain very technical insight into KZ2 for other Devs as well as show where God of War 3 is at and heading (and not just a 15 second in game action clip). And also Uncharted 2 will be shown (probably to a smaller extent?).

As for them "being late out of the gate and manufacturing delays has really hurt the PS3" I agree & disagree to an extent, as MS actually rushing to beat Sony to market and poorly designing/planning their console has actually caused THEM more damage. Imagine if they would never had any hardware issues and had some forethought to add at least a HD-DVD in the 360...then Sony would have had a REAL problem on their hands! With having to fight a console "war" and a format "war". In all honesty Sony would have lost BD by a mile, and the home media/console gaming for control in the living room "war" would have been in some jeopardy to say the least.

I guess it's all in how you look at it though. MS is down Billions because of RROD and having to buy exclusives, DLC content and the like while Sony is down Billions for putting out such an expensive to build hardware wise plus the losses of releasing that console to the public @ less than cost to manufacture ALONG with fighting the format war! All while Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank with their little money printing machine!

I guess it's a "6 of 1 1/2 a dozen of the other" type of thing...ya know? ;) lol

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 9:11

8613.1.2009 12:06

Oner, you put one of the best explanations to the continually argued facts on this so call console war. I look at Nintendo like I looked at Eminem early in his career. If it wasn't for the gimmicks he used to draw attention to his rap style. People would have never really paid attention to him. Same goes for Nintendo, they sold a good gimmick and a lot of people bought into it. I know some people will not like my analogy but that's not a knock on Eminem or Nintendo. You have to do what is necessary to get the sales you want. As for Sony and M$, we all knew they would have a slug fest for gamers. If you combine all of what these companies have done. They could have the best console ever built but you know it's to much greedy in that industry to make money together.

8713.1.2009 13:39

Originally posted by spydah:
If you combine all of what these companies have done. They could have the best console ever built but you know it's to much greedy in that industry to make money together.
Thanx spydah, it's funny you say that last bit though as I was JUST thinking about this late last night. Imagine one day where there is the true ultimate ALL IN ONE device...Plays PC games, console games (ALL from atari to PSWii360 and on!), has PC, Mac & Linux, iPod functionality, HD video and audio, inputs, outputs, WiFi...or WHATEVER to your hearts content!

Sadly that will never be. As you could only do so much with only a PC and emulation/multi booting and such by itself...and as you said. The main issue being the greed factor along with it would be a monopoly so they could dictate any price they feel.

8813.1.2009 13:55

Originally posted by Oner:
locobrown - I could understand where you are coming from but with all Playstation brand consoles there has always been a learning curve, and this has worked for them in the long run (as they have already proven this). For example look at an early PS2 game like Tomb Raider in comparison to God of War 2. Leaps and Bounds of a difference.

The same is absolutely holding true with the PS3, and [started or starting] to show with titles like Motorstorm 1 & 2, Uncharted, GT5P, Heavenly Sword, MGS4 and especially Killzone 2 (to name a few) coming up next month! Keep an eye out if you would like at this years GDC. They are planning to show/explain very technical insight into KZ2 for other Devs as well as show where God of War 3 is at and heading (and not just a 15 second in game action clip). And also Uncharted 2 will be shown (probably to a smaller extent?).

As for them "being late out of the gate and manufacturing delays has really hurt the PS3" I agree & disagree to an extent, as MS actually rushing to beat Sony to market and poorly designing/planning their console has actually caused THEM more damage. Imagine if they would never had any hardware issues and had some forethought to add at least a HD-DVD in the 360...then Sony would have had a REAL problem on their hands! With having to fight a console "war" and a format "war". In all honesty Sony would have lost BD by a mile, and the home media/console gaming for control in the living room "war" would have been in some jeopardy to say the least.

I guess it's all in how you look at it though. MS is down Billions because of RROD and having to buy exclusives, DLC content and the like while Sony is down Billions for putting out such an expensive to build hardware wise plus the losses of releasing that console to the public @ less than cost to manufacture ALONG with fighting the format war! All while Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank with their little money printing machine!

I guess it's a "6 of 1 1/2 a dozen of the other" type of thing...ya know? ;) lol
Well isnt sony 2B into the PS3? if you look at the cost of pushing out units and the profit that could be made if you can sell 3 or 4 100K to start gaining a profit, they both spend millions and millions more just to get the thing to market. Though.. MS spent as much to patch the 360 up and from it they have won first place for the non casual crowd. Still I would not be surprised if MS have deserters because of it all....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

8913.1.2009 14:26

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well isnt sony 2B into the PS3?
That may possibly be, though I thought it was in the 1 "Billions" or so or actually less because of the PS2 profits & PS3 games etc.? Dunno? lol
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 14:27

9013.1.2009 14:34

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well isnt sony 2B into the PS3?
That may possibly be, though I thought it was in the 1 "Billions" or so or actually less because of the PS2 profits & PS3 games etc.? Dunno? lol
Bah only whats made on the PS3 can be accounted for its losses :P

But the fact is MS is 2-4X more in debt over their system.

When the PS3 catches up to where the 360 is about 7milloin units if they can start making 20-30 off a unit that's 140.000.000 - 210.000.000, I think that's 1.4-2.1 B ...iz hard to compute the zeros 0-o.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

9113.1.2009 15:09
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Well isnt sony 2B into the PS3?
That may possibly be, though I thought it was in the 1 "Billions" or so or actually less because of the PS2 profits & PS3 games etc.? Dunno? lol
Bah only whats made on the PS3 can be accounted for its losses :P

But the fact is MS is 2-4X more in debt over their system.

When the PS3 catches up to where the 360 is about 7milloin units if they can start making 20-30 off a unit that's 140.000.000 - 210.000.000, I think that's 1.4-2.1 B ...iz hard to compute the zeros 0-o.
Not saying that MS doesnt care about the money but im not thinking they'll have the "doom and gloom" from media outlets pertaining to Microsoft hurting financially. MS lost tons of money on the 1st xbox forever...i honestly think their doing it to attain fans and could care less about the money losses it takes to try and steal the video game industry majority share. I dont if it will happen and i could be way off we shall see. Its going to be something that will peak and valley.look at last gen to this gen, numbers 3 Nintendo went to number 1,MS was number 2 last go round as far as units sold and popularity(i am not 100 sure on units pushed due to japanese affinity to their own products) and sony was number 1 and now is last place.People need to stop putting make-up and a pretty dress on the situation sony is in last place, is underachiving and yapping about potential. Who cares how they got their their there and it is what it is. MS needs to make sure that NEVER again do they have such horrid hardware issues like they've had with the rrod. theres no excuse that it has taken so long to fix and may not even be fixed for that matter. Nintendo needs to keep plugging along but not get too cocky or they'll end up in last place AGAIN it wasnt too long ago when their console was an afterthought. And aside from that they've alienated a important group of gamers (hardcore). But at the end of the day nintendo has triumphed and Not MS or Sony will catch up to them and the profit they'll make when this particalur was is all over is going to be recordbreaking and may not be touched for some time

9213.1.2009 15:48
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Oner:
locobrown - I could understand where you are coming from but with all Playstation brand consoles there has always been a learning curve, and this has worked for them in the long run (as they have already proven this). For example look at an early PS2 game like Tomb Raider in comparison to God of War 2. Leaps and Bounds of a difference.

The same is absolutely holding true with the PS3, and [started or starting] to show with titles like Motorstorm 1 & 2, Uncharted, GT5P, Heavenly Sword, MGS4 and especially Killzone 2 (to name a few) coming up next month! Keep an eye out if you would like at this years GDC.
They are planning to show/explain very technical insight into KZ2 for other Devs as well as show where God of War 3 is at and heading (and not just a 15 second in game action clip). And also Uncharted 2 will be shown (probably to a smaller extent?).

As for them "being late out of the gate and manufacturing delays has really hurt the PS3" I agree & disagree to an extent, as MS actually rushing to beat Sony to market and poorly designing/planning their console has actually caused THEM more damage. Imagine if they would never had any hardware issues and had some forethought to add at least a HD-DVD in the 360...then Sony would have had a REAL problem on their hands! With having to fight a console "war" and a format "war". In all honesty Sony would have lost BD by a mile, and the home media/console gaming for control in the living room "war" would have been in some jeopardy to say the least.

I guess it's all in how you look at it though. MS is down Billions because of RROD and having to buy exclusives, DLC content and the like while Sony is down Billions for putting out such an expensive to build hardware wise plus the losses of releasing that console to the public @ less than cost to manufacture ALONG with fighting the format war! All while Nintendo is laughing all the way to the bank with their little money printing machine!

I guess it's a "6 of 1 1/2 a dozen of the other" type of thing...ya know? ;) lol
Well isnt sony 2B into the PS3? if you look at the cost of pushing out units and the profit that could be made if you can sell 3 or 4 100K to start gaining a profit, they both spend millions and millions more just to get the thing to market. Though.. MS spent as much to patch the 360 up and from it they have won first place for the non casual crowd. Still I would not be surprised if MS have deserters because of it all....



[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1237333820090112][/url]
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 15:51

9313.1.2009 15:51

Saw that already but the Key word in that article from Reuters is "Sony" as a whole. NOT just for the PS3 as Zippy & I where discussing.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 15:52

9413.1.2009 16:00
Globe08
Inactive

I know that goes to show that if they are only reporting a loss of 1.1 billion common sense says its not ALL the ps3 thus you are more than likely right in saying it wasnt in the 2 billion.


A little old but not ancient:[url=http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169439][/url]

This article says sony has lost more money in the ps3 3 billion than it made with the ps2 during its 5 peak years. It also says MS lost $4 billion with original xbox and $1 billion replacing the rrod's this gen. Sure firm things up a bit for ya champ

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 16:06

9513.1.2009 18:11

Originally posted by Globe08:
I know that goes to show that if they are only reporting a loss of 1.1 billion common sense says its not ALL the ps3 thus you are more than likely right in saying it wasnt in the 2 billion.


A little old but not ancient: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169439

This article says sony has lost more money in the ps3 3 billion than it made with the ps2 during its 5 peak years. It also says MS lost $4 billion with original xbox and $1 billion replacing the rrod's this gen. Sure firm things up a bit for ya champ
Thanx for finding that article (I think there is another too along the same lines), since I couldn't find it myself. +1! It just goes to show the "Playstation" line of products has been just about able to sustain any losses as a whole to weather the storm of these financial times (even if just treading water to keep their heads above it). I totally forgot to add the previous gen Xbox for MS and how it was written about that they would never be able to turn a profit (even with the 360 helping) or something to that effect but again I can't find that damned article as well now too /grumbles. but then again that would be "old" info as well, sooo no big deal.

There is also one last point of which I admit is definitely not my strong suit and that is how operating costs & profit and net profits etc. conflict/coincide with these topics.../shrugs shoulders. Sometimes it just gets too technical and I really care about is wanting to play good, fun games with awesome experiences with my family & friends.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 18:14

9613.1.2009 18:31
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
I know that goes to show that if they are only reporting a loss of 1.1 billion common sense says its not ALL the ps3 thus you are more than likely right in saying it wasnt in the 2 billion.


A little old but not ancient: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169439

This article says sony has lost more money in the ps3 3 billion than it made with the ps2 during its 5 peak years. It also says MS lost $4 billion with original xbox and $1 billion replacing the rrod's this gen. Sure firm things up a bit for ya champ
Thanx for finding that article (I think there is another too along the same lines), since I couldn't find it myself. +1! It just goes to show the "Playstation" line of products has been just about able to sustain any losses as a whole to weather the storm of these financial times (even if just treading water to keep their heads above it). I totally forgot to add the previous gen Xbox for MS and how it was written about that they would never be able to turn a profit (even with the 360 helping) or something to that effect but again I can't find that damned article as well now too /grumbles. but then again that would be "old" info as well, sooo no big deal.

There is also one last point of which I admit is definitely not my strong suit and that is how operating costs & profit and net profits etc. conflict/coincide with these topics.../shrugs shoulders. Sometimes it just gets too technical and I really care about is wanting to play good, fun games with awesome experiences with my family & friends.
Agreed thats why i never see why people talk about finaces SOOO much.If the company isnt going out of business and they are still putting out the games i like i can give a shat less how they are doing on the stock market. Ya know too many of these things are out of our control....basically all of its out of our controller so i dont often see the need to quibble about it but its constantly a topic in gaming forums so its a necessary evil i guess. I mean for what its worth who cares if Sony or MS turn a profit this go round MS lost a whole lotta money last go round and this go round came out and got my vote based off my preferences. They lost 4 billions last gen and still put out incredible content and shady hardware but "I" havent been affected by it so i could care less i got what i paid for and love it

@ Zippy


Thats where i differ with you, i agree that the content and effort on a whole this gen is lackluster but when i see the gems out there like Gears 1/2, Bioshock,Braid, Call of duty series,Gta,Madden 09, and i then take in comparison how much it is for other forms of entertainment like internet/pc gaming, theatres,cable/satelite t.v.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jan 2009 @ 20:49

9714.1.2009 15:53

GTAIV was a HUGE let down for me. Utter crap compared to San Andreas...

9814.1.2009 16:30
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by Morreale:
GTAIV was a HUGE let down for me. Utter crap compared to San Andreas...
I agree it was a let down but personally i hated San Andreas so it wasnt as bad for me. The plot in the newest one was a lot better than San Andreas but lacked some of the freedom S/A offered. The online was certainly a welcomed addition and then theres the addtional dlc content coming "exclusively" to the xbox 360. But id be lying if i said that i was happy with the game as i shouldve been after the most hyped game of all time was released. GTA did let down and when it got the ratings it got and the hype it got it shouldve been flawless. I loved certain aspects of assasins creed but then the missions were so repetative that it nearly killed the game. The graphics were insane,physics insane,combat and mobility in the game was hella fun. I mean the climbing and free running was a blast. Plot was solid but laid out awkwardly but in the end the missions were to boring. My friend and I swapped Prince of Persia for Dead Space with me getting Dead Space so im about to go crack it open...later fellas.... and Ladies

9914.1.2009 19:43

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:


@ Zippy


Thats where i differ with you, i agree that the content and effort on a whole this gen is lackluster but when i see the gems out there like Gears 1/2, Bioshock,Braid, Call of duty series,Gta,Madden 09, and i then take in comparison how much it is for other forms of entertainment like internet/pc gaming, theatres,cable/satelite t.v.
No no I agree with you those games are gems of the the day but to me they are "worth less" as Halflife,Unreal,Doom,Blood,Undying,Halo 1,Quake 1-2,Turok 1-2,ect these games were made for enthusiasts not the witless modern casual gamer, I just do not see price equating to quality in gaming anymore.

10014.1.2009 20:05

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:



No no I agree with you those games are gems of the the day but to me they are "worth less" as Halflife,Unreal,Doom,Blood,Undying,Halo 1,Quake 1-2,Turok 1-2,ect these games were made for enthusiasts not the witless modern casual gamer, I just do not see price equating to quality in gaming anymore.
Or the witless modern hardcore gamer, such as my loser friends ;)

10114.1.2009 20:48

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:



No no I agree with you those games are gems of the the day but to me they are "worth less" as Halflife,Unreal,Doom,Blood,Undying,Halo 1,Quake 1-2,Turok 1-2,ect these games were made for enthusiasts not the witless modern casual gamer, I just do not see price equating to quality in gaming anymore.
Or the witless modern hardcore gamer, such as my loser friends ;)
Hey consumerism is herding cattle's via brands,franchises and ad wars, hevan forbid money is spent on development of the product which dose not always ganer support of the masses thus why I say witless.

The masses are witless oh so witless, individuals resolute on their spending habits and the defense there of.

And then theirs the crazies like zippy =^^=

10214.1.2009 21:26

Haha, oh my G-d, how pathetic of Sony!
Compare the Pro or the Elite, don't bash the Arcade! The Arcade is made for people, like my little brother, who don't need a hard drive because they don't download anything and who don't need WiFi (which means no Live as well).

Compare the Elite to the PS3 80GB.
Elite: 120GB
PS3: 80GB
For the same 400$.
or
Pro: 60GB
PS3: 80GB
For 100$ less for the Pro.

The only thing missing in the Xbox 360 is the WiFi adapter but I think all the exclusive games and the lower price covers for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sony, I have a Vaio laptop and a PSP, it's just that bashing the Arcade when it's made for people who don't need an HDD or anything instead of the Pro or Elite, which are equivalent to the PS3 just shows Sony is desperate.

Same thing for the Wii, they're bashing against a console that is like goliath next to the PS3 in terms of sale. That's kind of sad.

If everything Sony claims was true, why are they third in the next-generation market sales, by a large margin?

10314.1.2009 21:35

Originally posted by BTFan:
Haha, oh my G-d, how pathetic of Sony!
Compare the Pro or the Elite, don't bash the Arcade! The Arcade is made for people, like my little brother, who don't need a hard drive because they don't download anything and who don't need WiFi (which means no Live as well).

Compare the Elite to the PS3 80GB.
Elite: 120GB
PS3: 80GB
For the same 400$.
or
Pro: 60GB
PS3: 80GB
For 100$ less for the Pro.

The only thing missing in the Xbox 360 is the WiFi adapter but I think all the exclusive games and the lower price covers for that.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sony, I have a Vaio laptop and a PSP, it's just that bashing the Arcade when it's made for people who don't need an HDD or anything instead of the Pro or Elite, which are equivalent to the PS3 just shows Sony is desperate.

Same thing for the Wii, they're bashing against a console that is like goliath next to the PS3 in terms of sale. That's kind of sad.

If everything Sony claims was true, why are they third in the next-generation market sales, by a large margin?
Mostly price, if the PS3 was 100$ less from the start they would be matching the 360 sales numbers within a couple million units if not bypassed them by now.

Price slows sales first and foremost next is products aimed at their target audience.
Wii has a boarder audience and lower price thus is a freaking mountain.

10415.1.2009 3:12

Quote:
Mostly price, if the PS3 was 100$ less from the start they would be matching the 360 sales numbers within a couple million units if not bypassed them by now.


If the PS3 had been priced closer to the price of the xbox360 i would have never bought a xbox myself and i agree they would probably be in second place right now in sales leaving Xbox360 to be in last. Sony had a lot of loyal fans that they slapped in the face with the steep pricetag regardless if they were giving you next generation technology at a good price.

10515.1.2009 3:20

Quote:
Quote:
Mostly price, if the PS3 was 100$ less from the start they would be matching the 360 sales numbers within a couple million units if not bypassed them by now.


If the PS3 had been priced closer to the price of the xbox360 i would have never bought a xbox myself and i agree they would probably be in second place right now in sales leaving Xbox360 to be in last. Sony had a lot of loyal fans that they slapped in the face with the steep pricetag regardless if they were giving you next generation technology at a good price.
I do not see PS3 sells slowing so they could easily bypass the 360 numbers by the end of the year, but I think they will be neck in neck within a couple million units. And due to the high 360 fail rate and sony making money on the newer units sold Sony will be stabilizing in 09.

Psst that I see a slow tit for tat console war moving forward as the PS3 and 360 have the majority of there high end user base, games that are not multi system are going to have a hard time gaining profit, the WII will remain king hitting 60milloin units(if not hitting 70, I think past 80M units the WII will slow in new sales) by the end of the year.

10615.1.2009 8:00

I wonder how many extra units MS sold because of the RROD...

I know my friend has 2 because he didn't want to wait 6 weeks...

10715.1.2009 9:58

Originally posted by Morreale:
I wonder how many extra units MS sold because of the RROD...

I know my friend has 2 because he didn't want to wait 6 weeks...
I'm very certain it's plenty. Those will be the numbers that are never accounted for or accredited to M$ when looking at where they stand in this so called war. Personally I think they are even with Sony in terms of whats actually sold straight up sales not re-sales on a out of warranty defective unit.

10815.1.2009 10:02

If Sony would drop their system down to $250 - $300 they will pick up some serious steam and push for the number spot later. If they want to strategize then it should be done before Killzone 2. That will definitely help the console sales and move them up that ladder.

10915.1.2009 17:09
Globe08
Inactive

You notice all you hear from sony fans is a whole lot of this word right here ....2 letters over and over "if" this,"if"that again and again. Why argue what is not fact but common sense Sony themselves didnt employ?You dont the majority of 360 fans saying if MS didnt dick up with RROD theyd be making so much money, if the rrod wasnt out there then yada yada yada. Its just looks and sounds pathetics whne at every article the fans come out of the woodworks to correct the article,slant it in positve way,whine of conspiracies.

11015.1.2009 17:49

Originally posted by Globe08:
You notice all you hear from sony fans is a whole lot of this word right here ....2 letters over and over "if" this,"if"that again and again. Why argue what is not fact but common sense Sony themselves didnt employ?You dont the majority of 360 fans saying if MS didnt dick up with RROD theyd be making so much money, if the rrod wasnt out there then yada yada yada. Its just looks and sounds pathetics whne at every article the fans come out of the woodworks to correct the article,slant it in positve way,whine of conspiracies.
Yea when my friends get RRODs they get pissed off and threaten to buy PS3s... lol :P

11115.1.2009 18:44
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Globe08:
You notice all you hear from sony fans is a whole lot of this word right here ....2 letters over and over "if" this,"if"that again and again. Why argue what is not fact but common sense Sony themselves didnt employ?You dont the majority of 360 fans saying if MS didnt dick up with RROD theyd be making so much money, if the rrod wasnt out there then yada yada yada. Its just looks and sounds pathetics whne at every article the fans come out of the woodworks to correct the article,slant it in positve way,whine of conspiracies.
Yea when my friends get RRODs they get pissed off and threaten to buy PS3s... lol :P
i bet... key word is "threaten" they must know better than that to go out and do something crazy like that LOL back at cha
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Jan 2009 @ 20:04

11215.1.2009 19:57
vballstud
Inactive

Personally I owned a first generation PS and enjoyed it for what it's worth. I then went to Xbox and thought they had a better selection of games to play. Up until last year I still got together with my friends and played HALO in LAN parties.

I am now the proud owner of a 360 and after a year, still playing Halo3 over LIVE. The addition of being able to stream Netflix movies reinforces my decision to have purchased this console and spend the $50 for LIVE.

Xbox also has an option for you to create Community Games for your 360 and gives you access to the console to test your game. You can also sell your game in the Marketplace and make money off of it. This is something I may look into and try out.

11315.1.2009 20:04

Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
I wonder how many extra units MS sold because of the RROD...

I know my friend has 2 because he didn't want to wait 6 weeks...
I'm very certain it's plenty. Those will be the numbers that are never accounted for or accredited to M$ when looking at where they stand in this so called war. Personally I think they are even with Sony in terms of whats actually sold straight up sales not re-sales on a out of warranty defective unit.
I dont think the resold units are that big of a factor as you also have to take into consideration how many people did NOT buy a xbox360 d/t the horror of RROD. The people who are afraid of buying may cancell out the ones whom are repeat buyers or xbox 360 could possible have more units moved if the RROD had never happened. Dont know for sure.

11415.1.2009 21:47
Globe08
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
I wonder how many extra units MS sold because of the RROD...

I know my friend has 2 because he didn't want to wait 6 weeks...
I'm very certain it's plenty. Those will be the numbers that are never accounted for or accredited to M$ when looking at where they stand in this so called war. Personally I think they are even with Sony in terms of whats actually sold straight up sales not re-sales on a out of warranty defective unit.

You make a good point. You know how many people say they had a xbox 360 rrod and none of them ever say they like the 360 or its games? I mean ive personally known 2 people and they were pissed when their systems rrod but they were pissed cause they play it all the time. And both them got their systems in under 3 weeks. Im not saying its exucsable and personally i havent had an issue since launch purchase but out of the people out there true gamers are pissed and buy another because they cant wait. The ps2 had 1/10 the issue as MS is having but still do the math and even its only 30,000 people worldwide which is lowballin it that lost their systems everyone ive ever talked to who had it bought another because of the great game selection. We know the 360 offers that so those who lost it 1 out of 10 times should say something referencing losing it due to rrod should mention a game they were playing but it doesnt seem to happen.Strange huh?Im drunk so it makes no sense

I dont think the resold units are that big of a factor as you also have to take into consideration how many people did NOT buy a xbox360 d/t the horror of RROD. The people who are afraid of buying may cancell out the ones whom are repeat buyers or xbox 360 could possible have more units moved if the RROD had never happened. Dont know for sure.

11516.1.2009 12:58

Do the Math!

Remember the Atari Jaguar? Yes I bought one back then. lol.

11616.1.2009 14:19

-sigh- i hate it when sony fights MS because its just pathetic to fight with a less superior system. The fact IS that if people put down the numbers no matter WHICH version of the 360 they compare it to the PS3 is STILL less expensive in EVERY WAY! the fact that MS has a GOLD membership is proof of that. the addons like wi-fi and the obviously outdated HD DVD port arent necessary but to make the 360 as great as others make it out to be you NEED the internet access. With out it you're all alone and games like Fable2 and (can't believe i'm saying this game name) HALO youll won't make you very happy to play when you're all by yourself at home. Halo has no 1 player practice mode and the story is fun to play.....ONCE....or twice...after that it just gets stupid. and Fable as great as it may be the fact that you can have other players come into your world and allow you to see their world makes for a whole new experience that quite frankly i don't wish to miss. But i'm not willing to spend the extra 50-60 a year on something i can get for free at home with the ps3.

To top it off MS not is actually doubling your expenses seeing as their charge for their own internet access on a PC do they not? as do all internet companies...so why charge for 360s internet? they're only trying to make cash so they may delay their obvious fate...FAILURE at making a very good gaming system.

The System itself is just pathetic, it's slower than the ps3, the hard drive can't compare since if you run out of room you need one specifically made for the 360 where as the ps3 you can hook up almost any random HD you find and format it for the ps3. the actual Lazer in the system is a major problem that they should really start to focus on seeing as they're getting endless complaints about burns in discs and the "Ring of Death". and to top it off the fact that they still can't produce a system with wi-fi capabilities already built in is kinda pathetic. look at Mac, Sony,...even Nintendo finally figured this one out. they all have their equipment COME WITH WI-FI but MS still comes out with computers that need a WI-FI card attached to it just to make it wirelss...its sad...truely sad.


Oh and don't get me wrong the PS3 is far from being PERFECT. The internet is get laggy and some-what dead at times due to little users but thats just common sense since every fool on earth is playing with the 360. In anycase there have also been software issues, and the battery in the controller may be convenient but if the battery itself looses the ability to hold a charge you need to replace the whole controller seeing as they didnt make a replaceable battery accessory for it. Also the size of the dam thing....does it really need to be so big? i guess from a performance point of view the fact that it has a BR drive, standard now 80G HD, HD capabilities and a few othre things jammed into this thing...i guess it needs a lot of fans...but comeon...they couldn't find some way to downsize the product after the first run of the 20 and 60g systems? they're all too heavy!

...hmmmm..other than those issues...i dont really see anything wrong with it...so yah....the PS3 is WAAAAY better than the 360 and most gaming companies should have alrady noticed that fact. but they are too blinded by the offers and crap they're given to join up with MS that they fail to see their doomed fate.

MS claims that the 360 will outlive the ps3..their estimate is 10 yrs for the ps3...and their 360 will outlive it by ONE DAY....hmph the only way thatll happen is if they take down Sony that week of the 10th yr mark or if they start to make their systems a little more worth while. the fact that Sony still makes games for the PS2 is proof that the ps3 will survive waaay longer because if they made a system good enough to compare to the 360 seeing as ps2 actually outsold the 360 then that means that the ps3 has limitless potential that needs to be tapped into. its why i'm waiting for the release of that project they dubbed MAG.....i wanna play the 256 player game! -drools thinking about the carnage-

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Jan 2009 @ 14:30

11716.1.2009 15:06

To take Sony remotely seriously as a company you have to painfully overlook everything their executives say and do, honestly, it's hilarious some of the crap they come out with.

11816.1.2009 16:09

Originally posted by sammorris:
To take Sony remotely seriously as a company you have to painfully overlook everything their executives say and do, honestly, it's hilarious some of the crap they come out with.
Well, it's better than those executives need bailout. I have nothing to say, the article is screaming for trouble... Beauty is in the eye of beholder, there will always be some people like ugly looking people/animals/stuffs. To them, everything/anything is a bargain...

11916.1.2009 17:07

http://videogames.yahoo.com/feature/ps3-...redicts/1279759

Its funny that the comment was even made from a Sony employee and then you see news like this. I know the article does not say it is for sure but i kinda agree myself a price drop for PS3 is coming soon and eventually xbox360 will counter with another of their own when PS3 sales increase after the decrease in price. They need to hurry up. I want a PS3.

12016.1.2009 17:12

The PS3, sold on its potential alone, is worth maybe 20% more than xbox 360, at the most. Right now in the UK at least, it's 80% more. The PS3 sold for how good it actually is as a product, e.g. games included, how well it performs etc, is worth less than the xbox 360. Whether or not I buy one, the PS3 will never be value for money, on how weak it actually is as a product.

12116.1.2009 17:35

LOL. That's the equivilent of Mercedes saying that Toyotas are too expensive.

Sony, we know you're hurting and trailing behind the Xbox and Wii, but come on, making ridiculous claims is only going to hurt you more. Sheesh!

12216.1.2009 17:58
Globe08
Inactive

Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:
LOL. That's the equivilent of Mercedes saying that Toyotas are too expensive.

Sony, we know you're hurting and trailing behind the Xbox and Wii, but come on, making ridiculous claims is only going to hurt you more. Sheesh!
Generally in here the analogies in here coming from MS fans or people who are fed up with hearing the arrogant giant that is sony whining like a kid when their losing are far more intellegent than the other side of the spectrum if you catch my drift. Nice ^^^^, i think thats because all the hating people do on the rrod plagued 360 could matter less to its fans and MS cause they are 8 million consoles sold ahead and the only thing left to do is spin it like to whatever satisfies them mentally.

12316.1.2009 18:15

Welcome, Sony fanboy. :)

12416.1.2009 19:07

Quote:
Originally posted by ChiefBrdy:
LOL. That's the equivilent of Mercedes saying that Toyotas are too expensive.

Sony, we know you're hurting and trailing behind the Xbox and Wii, but come on, making ridiculous claims is only going to hurt you more. Sheesh!
Generally in here the analogies in here coming from MS fans or people who are fed up with hearing the arrogant giant that is sony whining like a kid when their losing are far more intellegent than the other side of the spectrum if you catch my drift. Nice ^^^^, i think thats because all the hating people do on the rrod plagued 360 could matter less to its fans and MS cause they are 8 million consoles sold ahead and the only thing left to do is spin it like to whatever satisfies them mentally.
Could you repeat that into something intelligible.

12516.1.2009 20:58
nyurbiz
Inactive

***edited by loco***

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jan 2009 @ 3:45

12617.1.2009 16:10

Haha is this how pathetic Sony has become, they have to bash the other companies in order to get customers? lmao what happened to Sony.
I dont see Microsoft or Nintendo bashing each other oh wait they have most of the market why would they lmao.

PS3 is a great system it just needs more games, Xbox 360 has been out a lot longer and has a great selection. As for Wii, im not so fond of it but I do think its great.

Playstation is VERY WEAK now that they have to bash Microsoft. Microsoft came late in the game. Nintendo and Sony where battling each other years before. The fact that you let a company come along as rookies to the console wars and make you have to talk smack about them just shows me your weak!

My cousin is a hardcore Playstation fan and has a PS3. He bought a XBOX 360 Elite and has nothing but great things to say about it. Yes he still plays his PS3 but even he a hardcore Playstation fan admits there is just much more stuff for 360 that hes more interested in.

Sony are dumb thinking of attacking the fact that you have to buy this or that addons. HELLO I cant speak for other countries but here in America people want OPTIONS! if they dont use it they dont want it and would pay less for what options they actualy want instead of paying more for things they are not going to use!
As for the WiFi thing, It does have an ethernet port. Seriously do you think people are not going online with there xbox 360's because they dont have WiFi? haha thats a joke. I wont be suprised if they dont make an Elite with Wifi in the future as another optional system.

PS3 online gaming lags and is not always working properly I believe due to the fact that its free. Microsft can afford to have fast running servers with millions of users because there users are contributing to the costs of these servers. Although $50 is kind of steep for some people.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jan 2009 @ 16:26

12717.1.2009 19:53

Originally posted by damncrap:
I dont see Microsoft or Nintendo bashing each other oh wait they have most of the market why would they lmao.
I agree Nintendo doesn't but MS? They have a history of ALWAYS comparing themselves to Sony and putting down their products...

Originally posted by damncrap:
PS3 is a great system it just needs more games, Xbox 360 has been out a lot longer and has a great selection. As for Wii, im not so fond of it but I do think its great.
Your opinion of game selection does not equate facts. The PS3 has MORE than enough great titles. The "PS3 has no games" bit went out in late 2007.

Originally posted by damncrap:
Playstation is VERY WEAK now that they have to bash Microsoft. Microsoft came late in the game. Nintendo and Sony where battling each other years before. The fact that you let a company come along as rookies to the console wars and make you have to talk smack about them just shows me your weak!
Knowing that MS does the same (as I explained earlier), does that change your views to them being "very weak" as well? I wholeheartedly agree it is odd for Sony to do this, and is definitely outside the norm for them, but how does that equate to "weakness"? I could see a bit of embarrassment on their part though, but not weakness.


Originally posted by damncrap:
Sony are dumb thinking of attacking the fact that you have to buy this or that addons. HELLO I cant speak for other countries but here in America people want OPTIONS! if they dont use it they dont want it and would pay less for what options they actualy want instead of paying more for things they are not going to use!

So you are speaking for everyone in America? Because you sure don't speak for me! I sure as hell don't want to pay MORE for LESS, and buying them as "options" over "inclusions" actually costs more...so I ask this, do you like wasting money?


Originally posted by damncrap:
As for the WiFi thing, It does have an ethernet port. Seriously do you think people are not going online with there xbox 360's because they dont have WiFi? haha thats a joke. I wont be suprised if they dont make an Elite with Wifi in the future as another optional system.
I also agree that they should not have added WiFi in their comparison but you can get very similar results with items that ARE basically necessities. The honest and fairest comparison to use for BOTH sides is

$300 360 60gb model + 1 year of LIVE! $50 + 1 controller $50 + 2 play & charge kits $40 = $440

vs

$400 PS3 80gb model + 1 controller $50 + HDMI cable $5 = $455

That is the LEAST amount you will spend for the AVERAGE gamer up to the HARDCORE, and maybe even including the CASUAL one as well as too. I added charge & play kits because if you factor in throw away non rechargeable batteries (which IS needed) it will cost EVEN more money in the long run. So this is a totally fair comparison. No WiFi added, No HD-DVD, No additional extras etc. to "pad" one side or the other. BUT let it be known that they do have to be noted as possibly costing CERTAIN users extra money (well not HD-DVD but you get the point).

I personally would add the the Live Vision Camera $40 & PSEye $40 (because it IS a "wash" being equally priced) and the $5 HDMI cable for the 360 Pro Model since it doesn't come with one (only the Elite does) BUT since it does come with HD component cables I feel that would be unfair to add a price when it can "out of the box" do HD whereas the PS3 does not. PLUS I don't want people complaining about these items (as well for some reason) because I am trying to keep it FAIR for BOTH sides unlike past comparisons.

So "out the door" the 360 is $15 cheaper I will agree...but after the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc. year, it is not at all. So even though Sony is absolutely mistaken in even bothering with this "comparison" in the end their result/point holds true.


Originally posted by damncrap:
PS3 online gaming lags and is not always working properly I believe due to the fact that its free. Microsft can afford to have fast running servers with millions of users because there users are contributing to the costs of these servers.
I don't know where you get that info from because I have NEVER experienced anything like you said "PS3 online gaming lags and is not always working" that is an outright blatant lie,absolutely incorrect and definitely misinformed. You have NO idea what you are talking about and must have no experience with the PSN to say something as false as that.

If anything MS are the ones with much more MAJOR documented problems (06 & 07 Christmas, Halo 3, Gears 1 and Gears 2 as well with some VERY recent issues too). Look, you have your opinion about the PS3, Sony or whatever. Fine. But please back up your "statements" with proof & not opinion when you make fallacious comments like those.

I believe PEOPLE (not Americans) would rather a sense of worth for what they paid for. The BEST Value for the cost of investment. Call me crazy, but I love my money and think others do to. I personally want to get the most out of what I spend, and the last 2 gens Sony has not disappointed, neither has Nintendo for the vast majority of their outings. MS cannot say the same with the quick in and out >4 years support for the original Xbox.

That's not to say I do not appreciate any other console manufacturers or that I don't own/game on others (as I own at least 10 different consoles including a 360). It's just I like to as they say, "Work smarter, not harder" and that correlates to me, my decisions, my work/way of income & my money.

In addition, to put it simply, if you buy something that consistently fails, malfunctions & breaks was it worth the money spent? Quality does not only mean gameplay to me, it is a culmination of a few factors like stability, support, past history, build standards, performance and more. If I "lose out" on a very few titles just to avoid headaches, then it's not really a "loss" then huh? While on the flip side it's only a "plus plus" situation and the benefits truly outweigh playing a handful of games I personally wouldn't miss especially since I can get 95% of them on my PC.

Maybe I'm selfish but I want the most out of ANYTHING electronic and if certain companies fall short it's not my fault that manufacturer didn't commit/provide/fulfill what I wanted. That I feel correlates to what PEOPLE would want more so than what options "Americans" want.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Jan 2009 @ 20:03

12817.1.2009 20:17

Oner,
1: Agreed, MS are every bit as competitive as Sony in that regard, but at least when they do speak out, they don't make a complete prat of themselves. Well, not so ofte anyway.
2: Overall, the statement is false, but the thought behind the comment is true. The PS3, while catering satisfactorily to a number of games, has far fewer titles than the Xbox 360, and certainly the Wii, effectively rendering it a console for those who are very concerned about its exclusives and little else.
4: I too would prefer to buy a console that comes with the goodies to start with, but the fact is, that's what the 360 Premium really is, aside from Live. Since the 360 has never had support for BluRay (now the only HD video format) I'll ignore that. The 360 Premium doesn't need to be marketed for any less than it is, so the addition of the Arcade version is welcome to those who actually think it's a better buy.
5: Integrated WiFi would be a good thing, but the fact remains, you don't need to buy THE wireless adapter to make the 360 wireless, you can do the job yourself cheaper.
6: Reading your price comparison it's also important to consider that the PS3 is not priced as competitively in europe.
7: Wrong approach to the PSN vs Xbox live lag debate. No online network can possibly be free from lag due to the globality of its setup, but the irony is that Xbox Live is actually worse than PSN in that regard.





Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

12917.1.2009 20:47

Haha in Australia the PS3 used to cost $1000. Now it is down to about $700.



13017.1.2009 22:12

Yeah true Sam, most things can be subjective but others are just plain wrong or misinformed for the most part, which is why certain corrections where necessary (overall).


13118.1.2009 5:08

well im not trying to be funny but sony had the market before ms but the let it slip secound sony need a new control pads third there are
no games for the ps3 forth having to many thing built in to a console is not good i love the ps2 but if sony want to make it they better step their game up and work on their control pad and i no it is sad but they might have to work on a achivement score thing yes ps3 goes on the web but thats not what people want and a big hard drive is not putting up the ps3 sale either

13218.1.2009 5:13

o yer ps2 all the way but ps3 is not good make i was expecting more from sony sony so silly you were robbed by ms

13318.1.2009 5:52

this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

THEY ALL ARE WAY OVERPRICED

so if you are throwing away money what difference is it is you throw another $50-$150

13418.1.2009 8:22

Lol? The Wii maybe, the PS3 probably, but I think the 360 represents fair value for money. That's not fanboyism, that's because it's the cheapest game system of the three, and costs barely half as much more than a DS, and let's face it, while a DS is awesome for its portability, the 360 is a lot of gaming possibility for the price. It's the games that are too expensive.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

13518.1.2009 8:40
varnull
Inactive

Hi Sam .. the big problem with the DS is the hinge.. it breaks way to easily, and the cabling through it is very vulnerable when that happens.

The touchscreen is also easily damaged, and impossible to replace without fitting a whole new screen.. just my 2c as a poor dogsbody who has just about given up trying to repair them XD

13618.1.2009 9:06

I just wanted to respond to this comment:

In anycase there have also been software issues, and the battery in the controller may be convenient but if the battery itself looses the ability to hold a charge you need to replace the whole controller seeing as they didnt make a replaceable battery accessory for it.

On page 19-20 of your instruction manual for the PS3 they show you how to replace the battery.

I also wanted to repond to this comment:

Also the size of the dam thing....does it really need to be so big? i guess from a performance point of view the fact that it has a BR drive, standard now 80G HD, HD capabilities and a few othre things jammed into this thing...

It uses a laptop hard drive so that shouldn't have a lot to do with the size. I mean there are laptops now that have HD capabilities and wiresless connectivity that are half the size of the ps3 right ? Maybe they made it big so that it is easy to upgrade in the furture. Also on page 17 of the PS3 manual they show you how to replace or upgrade the hard drive. So if 80gb is not enough space for you, you can put a bigger one in. Since they use a laptop hard drive, however much space you need could probably be attained.

13718.1.2009 9:44

Neither my friend's or my dad's DS has had a problem with the hinge yet. Guess the solution is not to drop it...
Rammstein: The bulk of the PS3's size is to do with its cooling solution. The one legitimate criticism of the early xboxes will tell you that was a good decision on Sony's part.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13

13818.1.2009 11:13

Correct rammstein. You have always been able to replace the controller battery yourself, as you said it even has the breakdown of how to in the PS3 manual.






You can buy replacements all over the net, here are 2 examples: here for $5.55 OR here for even less. There has also been information that stated Sony will replace the batteries FOR FREE. Not the controller but the battery itself. This all started after the original article on GamesRadar a few years back that said gamers would end up buying new pads and it blew up from there and continues to this day....it's just misinformation and fanboys who don't care to speak facts, find the proper facts or just like to spread FUD. Anyway A Sony spokesperson responded with the following:

Quote:
This is a purely speculative story and is largely untrue. The latest generation of Lithium Polymer batteries hardly suffer any memory effect at all, so it'll be many years before there's any degradation in terms of battery performance.
At the same time he also confirmed if the pads did ever die, then Sony would replace them free of charge. I personally don't think they will for EVERYBODY but the price to do it yourself equally covers the shipping charges to send a DS3/SixAxiS so why send it anyway? Just use the money for shipping for a battery. Done.

As for the comment about

Quote:
the size of the dam thing....does it really need to be so big? i guess from a performance point of view the fact that it has a BR drive, standard now 80G HD, HD capabilities and a few othre things jammed into this thing...
When you put a 360 next to a PS3 it is only minimally larger. Additionally to what earlier posters said (cooling etc.) the PS3 has it's power supply INTERNALLY compared to the brick you get with the 360 (that also had a failure issues at launch as well...not many people remember that one huh?). And we all know a PS3 slim is going to come...it's just a matter of time.


Originally posted by redcar12:
well im not trying to be funny but sony had the market before ms but the let it slip secound sony need a new control pads third there are no games for the ps3 forth having to many thing built in to a console is not good i love the ps2 but if sony want to make it they better step their game up and work on their control pad and i no it is sad but they might have to work on a achivement score thing yes ps3 goes on the web but thats not what people want and a big hard drive is not putting up the ps3 sale either
1) Nothing has "slipped" they are tracking fine globally and have outsold the 360 in it's 2 years comparatively (20 mill PS3 vs 17 mill 360). And that's not bad for a system that has ALWAYS been the most expensive.

2) The controller issue can be fixed by you buying one that YOU like, a redesign is not needed. It's ergonomic and physically "equal" in it's button layout. Plus with over 230 Million Playstation 1 & 2 consoles sold, I think more people would be against it. The uproar they got when they tried to introduce the "boomerang" controller before the PS3's launch is proof of this. The majority of PS owners don't need nor want a controller change.

3) Not the "PS3 has no games" bit again...as I said in the other thread already. That "view" is sooo tired & went out in late 2007. There might be "less" games in total vs the 360 because of their 1 year head start but there are MORE than enough games to choose from and enjoy.

4) The PS3 has had trophies since early to mid 2008. From 2009 and on all games are required to have them. They have also been said to be somehow used in the future for items in PS Home as a sort of "money" or something to that effect. Point is they have them.

5) You can't speak for others with a comment like "yes ps3 goes on the web but thats not what people want". Because you sure don't speak for me! I personally love the fact I can go on the web with my PS3 and everyone I know uses it as well. I am sure Millions of others do to especially because of access to Hulu, Youtube, Gametrailers, Flash Games capability, Afterdawn ;) [had to throw that one in!] and any number of MILLIONS of sites to browse...I can't understand how something that gives you added benefits and MORE options out of the box is somehow "bad"? I will NEVER understand that way of thinking.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Jan 2009 @ 11:22

13918.1.2009 11:27

In terms of the amount of space it occupies, the PS3 is still noticeably larger, but the internal power supply is useful. As far as the issues with the 360's power brick go, let's not forget that while the xbox's technical faults were far worse at launch, so was the PS3's game list. Both the PS3 and the Wii were dire for games versions, and sold simply on their backwards compatibility. The 360 wasn't perfect either, but was its one saving grace from all the red rings and other failed components.
I will agree on the controller design and web access issue - the PS2 controller in my mind is ideal, and exra features to a device, provided they work, in my mind are always welcome.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

14018.1.2009 17:01

BluRay is patently unnecessary for gaming, so why pay for it if you don't want it? Wireless connectivity isn't necessary or even better, so why pay for it if you don't want it? I just hacked in a 120g WD Scorpio to a 360 caddy. (There are no copyright issues here so I am quite unabashed about it). Besides MS are offering arcade owners cheap 20g drives. Batteries aren't a problem- just buy a cheap NiMh fast recharge pack from the supermarket, how easy could that be?

I remember having to buy a ethernet adapter and other stuff for my PS2, Sony are being hypocrites, I went through so many controllers. Besides you HAVE to have pay for a HDD on the PS3 to hold some game data on account the OD doesn't produce the data-rates to run games completely on the fly.

Originally posted by Oner:
Lastly I would like to say this. I have been said to have a tendency to "show MS in a bad way" I honestly don't mean to. I just give more information or a different view to show more than just what the media would have you beleive. Especially when there is handily a greater percentage of "doom & gloom" posts/news against Sony when clearly other factors aren't accounted for to make that "headline" grab readers for hits, traffic and ad revenue...

Maybe so Oner- but you certainly don't give that impression. At the very least you spend an inordinate length of time talking up the PS3 and say almost nothing positive about the 360 in any way. Your excuse that you feel a need (as a moderator!) to personally intervene at great length in the forums to address some kind of subjective imbalance doesn't wash in my books.

I'm talking to you as I would a normal poster as you choose to present yourself in this thread and I will not be cowed by your position.

Now you and I have politely discussed console hardware matters before and your claim that you know "just about all there is to know about consoles" (from another thread) just floors me. Some of your claims are just outright spurious.

You still insist that difficult quirky programming structure inspires creativity in game design- where is the evidence for that? I am 180 degrees in opposition to that remark. The GOTY on many good sites was World of Goo or Braid. Inspires creativity in programming methods? quite possibly, creativity in gameplay? no. It's sounds nice but doesn't hold up in reality.

Also, the 360 is maxed out or has reached the end of it's programmable life, in terms of generational programming. Codswallop! The creator or GeOW & GeOW2 doesn't think so, so how would you know better than him? The 360 is a "bullet-proof" directly addressed programming environment. As are all consoles.

The overall differences in the consoles in the "eating of the pudding" are not as great as you like to point out. Face it, the 360 is a popular console whether you like it or not, 360 owners can't all be stupid, they must have some good reasons regardless of the RRoD you bring up so often.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

14118.1.2009 17:06

MGS4 without Blu-Ray? Please...


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14218.1.2009 17:22

Originally posted by Morreale:
MGS4 without Blu-Ray? Please...
Hmmm, MGS4 was roundly critiqued for suffering from endless JPS cutscenes, that's where your gigs went.



Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

14318.1.2009 18:22

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by Morreale:
MGS4 without Blu-Ray? Please...
Hmmm, MGS4 was roundly critiqued for suffering from endless JPS cutscenes, that's where your gigs went.
I watched every single one :)

Without them, it would have been just some lame regular shooter. What a story. It's all detail, extra effort. You don't see that in, well, any games today really...

MGS4 and GTA4 both got 10s from Gamespot. Which one REALLY deserves it?

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14418.1.2009 18:57

The 360 is now running out of space with only 9GB DVDs. BluRay was a smart down the line choice, sadly its initial cost was a bit too high to justify initially.
Sony may have made you buy anything and everything for the PS2, but funnily enough, the PS2 and PS3 are not the same, and Sony changed their tune for the newer console.
I don't agree that the 360 has many many years of life left in it, but I don't think it will die much before the PS3.
Morreale: Couldn't agree more. GTA4 is a very good game, but a game has to be truly special to get 10, and GTA4 just ain't it. MGS4 isn't my sort of game, but it's easy to see it is a masterful product. Since I have not played it I can't comment on it deserving 10, but in genral, I don't think it is worth 10 from what I've seen. To say so without much justification is MGS4, and thus, PS3 fanboyism. I do agree that the cutscenes are a big waste of resources, but there has already been a complaint about lack of space on the DVD9 format (Project Gotham 4 I believe), and that can only continue. MGS4 is really an exercise in showing off just how much room there is to use/waste.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13

14518.1.2009 21:03

Originally posted by Jemborg:
At the very least you spend an inordinate length of time talking up the PS3 and say almost nothing positive about the 360 in any way. Your excuse that you feel a need (as a moderator!) to personally intervene at great length in the forums to address some kind of subjective imbalance doesn't wash in my books.
I call a piece of crap hardware just as it is and I do so to inform misinformed people so they can know to be wary. NEVER have I said nor believe every game on the 360 is "bad" and the same for what LIVE! offers. I have my personal preferences just as ANY OTHER person on here so sorry if it "bothers" you or when I correct people for being mistaken or passing on false things...I mean god forbid I offer up some proper information that is absolutely verifiable and truthful in a forum where people ask for help or post lies....especially when my area of expertise IS gaming & consoles of which is why I was brought on here at aD.

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Now you and I have politely discussed console hardware matters before and your claim that you know "just about all there is to know about consoles" (from another thread) just floors me. Some of your claims are just outright spurious.
I have been gaming for nearly 30 years across ALL different platforms. I have been at this on aD alone for 7 years. I have done my best to help grow all the console sections to over 1 Million posts during these years along with had direct input to their changes, upgrades & layout over the years. I don't think I should have to say anything more, I feel I have said enough. You take it which ever way you like, as you are going to anyway NO matter what I say. That is clear, your post itself is proof of this.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
You still insist that difficult quirky programming structure inspires creativity in game design- where is the evidence for that? I am 180 degrees in opposition to that remark. The GOTY on many good sites was World of Goo or Braid. Inspires creativity in programming methods? quite possibly, creativity in gameplay? no. It's sounds nice but doesn't hold up in reality.
Care to show where I have "insisted" this? Because you won't find it. I have said Sony as a whole with every PS console that has come out have PUSHED the limits of tech to help grow the industry...not stagnate it with using OLD off the shelf tech that doesn't even work for the life of the gen it is supposed to last through. Far different than what you are assuming and claiming. As for GOTY why didn't you mention all the accolades MGS4, LBP and some other PS exclusive franchises have received in 08 by IGN, G4, Gamespy, Gametrailers, Gamespot & MANY, MANY more? Seems a bit odd to me. Whereas the only GOTY for a specific genre contender for the 360 was LFD? Gears won almost NOTHING anywhere, whilst any other "winners" for the 360 where multiplatform titles that are obviously available elsewhere.


Originally posted by Jemborg:
Also, the 360 is maxed out or has reached the end of it's programmable life, in terms of generational programming. Codswallop! The creator or GeOW & GeOW2 doesn't think so, so how would you know better than him? The 360 is a "bullet-proof" directly addressed programming environment.
I don't need to know more, I just need and use Epics OWN words that support what I have said for over a year. As well as other devs who have said the same. Hell even Microsoft's own executives admitting the PS3 is more powerful citing THIS EXACT ARTICLE thread for the base of the topic! I called this over a year ago so I think I deserve some credit as I was right. The 360 can't do ray tracing like the PS3 can (even if at an infancy stage currently) GT5P & Killzone 2 are PROOF of this. Also why is KZ2 being compared visually to Crysis? Has there EVER been ANY title on the 360 that has held that distinction? Nope. Now that is not to say I believe it is graphically superior but the mere fact it is being held to it as a standard is mind boggling! Although there are MANY areas where KZ2 surpasses Crysis (said by those in the industry and I agree) ~ Lighting, Character Models, Weapon detail, Weather & overall game atmosphere, hit detection & definitely animation to name a few. PLUS it has the gameplay to match!


Originally posted by Jemborg:
Face it, the 360 is a popular console whether you like it or not, 360 owners can't all be stupid, they must have some good reasons regardless of the RRoD you bring up so often.
I have NEVER said the 360 is not a popular console so there is nothing to "face"...but good sales in America do not hold true to the way it is for the WHOLE world. For the first 8-9 months of 2008 the PS3 was outselling the 360 (in every market) and MS's only defense was to cut the price and after doing so only "beat" the PS3 (in 1 market the US, split about even all over the EU & lost in JP) by maybe a couple hundred thousand World Wide? All the while being quite a bit more expensive, and on top of all of that couldn't even beat the Wii being even less than it! Come on!

Originally posted by Jemborg:
360 owners can't all be stupid
They're not. But ones who continue to buy and support something that continually breaks and then have the gall to complain about the PS3's price are questionable. And please don't try and make the comparison to the PS2's DRE issues. There is no comparison in the shear amount of failures between the 2. This is fact. PS2 had a less than 6% failure rate (and that is a REALLY high estimate) while the 360's is WAAAY above that (by at least 5x).

Lastly I add...it's ALWAYS a personal thing isn't it?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Jan 2009 @ 21:18

14618.1.2009 21:08

Oner, the PS3 has always been more powerful. That doesn't make it a better product. It also baffles me that you still continue to spout on about the 360's technical problems. Presumably you think they are still as much a problem as they used to be.




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14718.1.2009 21:26

Originally posted by sammorris:
Oner, the PS3 has always been more powerful. That doesn't make it a better product. It also baffles me that you still continue to spout on about the 360's technical problems. Presumably you think they are still as much a problem as they used to be.
Sorry its had "issues" for more than half its lifespan that has given it schizophrenic like neurosis's making game behave differently on different units.

I'll give you the PS3 has more power but that gap of power difference has yet to be crossed due to the assine code/hardware structure they chose to use.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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14818.1.2009 21:27

Originally posted by sammorris:
Oner, the PS3 has always been more powerful. That doesn't make it a better product. It also baffles me that you still continue to spout on about the 360's technical problems. Presumably you think they are still as much a problem as they used to be.
I definitely understand that power does not equate to being better. But the same can be said to how something having better sales does not equate to quality ;). As far as the technical problems with the 360 the only revision SO FAR to not have any problems yet is the new Jasper model and even then that is questionable as at this years CES MS had 2 RROD's. It wouldn't be too far fetched to say they would have showcased their latest model for this show...but that is not in any was confirmation nor does "2" make for a problem. Only time will tell for the Jasper. Whereas EVERY revision to date has had many a problem. Would you not agree?

14918.1.2009 21:31

Actually I haven't heard any more horror stories with the Falcon than with any other console really. Some have failed, but I wouldn't call it more than other consoles necessarily have had. The originals were certainly a nightmare and I know someone personally who has just had his third delivered, but oddly enough, our older xbox (manufactured in 2006) is so far so good, though the DVD drive is dodgy. A lot of PS2s went down after a few years, and while mine still works at the age of 6, it crashes more often than it used to, and it hasn't really been used that extensively since about 2005.




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15018.1.2009 21:39

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I'll give you the PS3 has more power but that gap of power difference has yet to be crossed due to the assine code/hardware structure they chose to use.
Just like previous Playstation consoles have always been. Would you expect any less? lol! But ever since Uncharted 1 it was evident the PS3 had "more" to it that was waiting to be tapped...again just like all previous Playstation consoles have been as well too. But this time around it's MUCH different. The internal dev network has greatly improved this gen and tools, code, sharing knowledge & even the build up of a new engine (KZ2) for use in future titles instead of just wasting it on exclusive "DLC" and new IP's.

15118.1.2009 21:55

Here's one I will concede. If it's so hard to program for the PS3, why are there so many titles on the 360 that you can also get on the PS3?




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15218.1.2009 23:14

Originally posted by sammorris:
Here's one I will concede. If it's so hard to program for the PS3, why are there so many titles on the 360 that you can also get on the PS3?
Why do most EA games look better on a 360? There's your answer.

But at least other companies like Rockstar and such(GTAIV looks better on PS3 IMO) take the time To make them the same. EA can just die (but not Harmonix... Spare them).

360 uses familiar coding that devs are used to, PS3 is new so devs have a harder time. It's not necessarily harder, you just gotta take the time to learn it. Then it's easy :)

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15319.1.2009 0:45

Just responding to what most americans may want in regards to a videogaming console. I think that Microsoft has the better approach with more options as to what specifically you do and do not want to spend extra money for even if PS3 is a better deal when comparing PS3 and Xbox360 fully equipped with all the major features and add-ons. I dont think the majority of americans choose the best bang for your buck, most choose what suits their lifestyle the best at that particular time. Everyone is diff and knows what fits their fancy. Just as i choose Energizer rechargable batteries for my remotes b/c they last longer(made for high energy draining electronics), and recharge in 15 minutes. My rechargable batteries outlast all alkalines i have seen so far and my digital camera proved this as they are known for sucking the life out of ordinary alkaline batt. at an amazing rate.

15419.1.2009 8:05

Originally posted by Morreale:
Why do most EA games look better on a 360? There's your answer.
Er, last time I checked, they don't. Graphically, the PS3 is the weaker console, hence a lot of the games running at 1024x600 versus the xbox's 1280x720. It's not a huge difference though. The PS3 just takes nVidia's usual approach of overdoing lighting effects.

Originally posted by Morreale:
But at least other companies like Rockstar and such(GTAIV looks better on PS3 IMO) take the time To make them the same. EA can just die (but not Harmonix... Spare them).
Interesting. I don' think GTA4 is a particularly great looking game in the grand scheme of things (Xbox 360 + PC), but it's interesting to hear it's a better looking game on the PS3, perhaps again, due to lighting effects. Lol @ the Harmonix, I quite agree.

Originally posted by Morreales:
360 uses familiar coding that devs are used to, PS3 is new so devs have a harder time. It's not necessarily harder, you just gotta take the time to learn it. Then it's easy :)
Which they've now done...

lxhotboy: I would never consider anything but NiMH batteries for a high powered portable device, especially cameras. Not after seeing how much they outlast alkalines. You are right to an extent about the consoles, a great deal of sales are determined by which console offers the best stuff at the time, though there are a lot of parents around I suspect that would much rather spend 160 on a console than 300, when it to them, does the same job.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2009 @ 8:08



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15519.1.2009 13:13

Originally posted by lxhotboy:
Just responding to what most americans may want in regards to a videogaming console. I think that Microsoft has the better approach with more options as to what specifically you do and do not want to spend extra money for even if PS3 is a better deal when comparing PS3 and Xbox360 fully equipped with all the major features and add-ons. I dont think the majority of americans choose the best bang for your buck, most choose what suits their lifestyle the best at that particular time. Everyone is diff and knows what fits their fancy. Just as i choose Energizer rechargable batteries for my remotes b/c they last longer(made for high energy draining electronics), and recharge in 15 minutes. My rechargable batteries outlast all alkalines i have seen so far and my digital camera proved this as they are known for sucking the life out of ordinary alkaline batt. at an amazing rate.
but thats just it the XB360 ISNT the best bang for your buck because those Options you mentioned are all unecesserily detached from the system when they should come standard with it (i.e. wireless, HD output, battery charger) the fact that they made these optional are retarded since most systems come with them right out of the box. If they had made those come standard i can GUARANTEE you that it would be the same price as the ps3 but less popular due to the fees of internet use, annoyance of changing the battery once every month, and the countless other expenses they have including the issues the system has itself.

you claim that most people buy something based on if its best suited for their life...but how is endless fees for something you could be getting free suited for an every day life? it's just retarded to think that just because a system has more games that makes it better for their life when they don't put enough though into how they'll pay for the extras that they could ALSO be getting for free on the PS3...everything that they claim is suited for their life costs extra to get it on the 360 but is FREE on the ps3. how retarded can a person be to think that way?

"tell me what you are the agent of then!"

"I am, The Agent.....Of death."

15619.1.2009 13:27

By most systems, you mean just the PS3. The Wii has wireless but rechargable batteries are not included, neither is a battery charger. In addition, a charging dock is not an official product for the Wii, and is known to cause hardware failures.
As it stands now, the cost of the Xbox's official wireless peripheral plus multiple play and charge kits does not make up the gap in price, let alone the far cheaper option of building the device into the console itself. Also, annoyance of charging the battery once a month? You can't seriously expect us to believe tht the PS3's controllers never need charging?
Still, your post is invalidated by the number of times you've used the word retarded, and the fact that you have no idea how to string a sentence together.




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15719.1.2009 14:42

I've never had a controller die on me when I'm playing, and when the battery is low I just grab my other controller off of the USB and put the dead one on. No problems. I think rechargeable controllers are absolutely necessary for every console because I know on my Wii I run through batteries like mad and when I'm at my friend's house we have to take turns using 1 controller because he never has any batteries and his other controllers are dead... We literally hunt for batteries; take them out of his remotes, phones, old toys and whatever else uses AA batteries lol

I also think wireless is necessary in every system (or in a 360 anyways) because lots of people today use wireless because it's easier. I NEED wireless in everything in my house because my modem is in the most retarded spot and I can't place it anywhere else. It was one of the reasons why I got a PS3 over a 360... Although now after a year I wired it up (not easy bringing a cable through a ceiling with a piece of string... extreme) because I didn't really like it's 35% connection (through 5 walls.. I was surprised it had a signal)...


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15819.1.2009 14:44

Wireless can still be achieved on the 360 without buying the official wireless adapter. It's not ideal, but it's a lot more reasonable.




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15919.1.2009 15:00

The only things i can comment on are wireless (on the 360) and 360 controllers. For the controllers (and ALL other games controllers/remote controls i own) i just use rechargeable batteries (2500+NiMh as digitial cameras kill batteries far too soon so i always have loads of decent rechargeable batteries around). No need to buy rechargeable battery packs or other such gadgets whatsoever.
Whilst i love the old type xbox controllers as they're laid out well and have really long cables, on the 360 i really rate the standard wireless controllers and don't want wires draped across the floor. I certainly wouldn't buy those daft wired charge and play controllers, plus as i say, i use decent rechargeable batteries, i just charge a set whilst using a fresh set. How difficult is that ?.

As to wireless i use (between 2 and 4) wireless routers with (free) 3rd-party firmware that extend the wireless signal throughout the house, and every single bit of kit in the house is able to be connected via ethernet into those routers (which basically allows wireless without wires).

Neither of these 2 comments equate to the thread title of "Sony: Xbox 360 is too expensive".

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2009 @ 15:06



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16019.1.2009 15:01

For another $100... Comes out to the same price as a PS3 and a PS3 has way more features, more bang for your buck out of the box. Even a bigger HDD.

You could go with the Arcade but it has no HDD whatsoever... They could at least made it worth-while and bundle the Arcade with a 20GB HDD...


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16119.1.2009 15:12

Surely if adding the price of wireless adapter makes it equal price to a PS3, then it's equal bang for the buck?




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16219.1.2009 15:58

Are you forgetting every feature that the PS3 has and the 360 doesn't?

Like an internet browser with flash, OtherOS, free online, Home, Blu-Ray, card readers, Bluetooth, a rechargeable controller, an 80GB HDD(any size really), DVD upscaling and it's oher multimedia capabilities. I don't think I'm missing anything but I use all of that so I'm good :)

With the 360 at $400, I get, well, wifi, and I guess a DVD player, but my Wii can do that too. Um... Some multimedia support, and a 60GB HDD too... Hmm...


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16319.1.2009 16:08

The price of Xbox Live isn't a huge issue, it's a surprisingly reliable system, and ultimately Microsoft have every right to charge for it. I have not read too much into this, but from what I have read, it seems that PSN has had issues in the past, particularly around the release of LittleBigPlanet - perhaps due to the load created by the fact that everyone who owns a PS3 has online access, not just those who pay for it.
The size of the HDD in the PS3 is meaningless, the version of the 360 it competes with uses a 60GB instead of 80GB hard drive. What is that being used for? The only possible way you can fill that space is by installing games, and since PS3 games are twice the size of the 360's, the drive should really be 120GB. At least you can buy a factory xbox with a 120GB drive.
The multimedia support of the xbox is everything the PS3's is minus BluRay. In my opinion, the sole realistic use of BluRay is to store more data, not high def video. The HDCP system employed on it renders it an absolute nightmare for the paying customer.

Note, I'm not trying to claim the xbox 360 is better than the PS3, it just isn't. What I am saying is that it isn't any worse.
The one thing that puts the 360 behind the PS3 is the lack of web usage. Personally I have no use for this but I have seen it used to great effect by others (on a Wii, not a PS3) and know it's a valuable tool. That said, at present I still feel the game library of the 360 merits a slightly higher total cost than the PS3. Also, in particular for Rock Band players like me, the xbox 360 is the more friendly console with regard to compatibility. That's just how it is.




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16419.1.2009 17:36

I fill 80GBs no problem with all of the movie torrents I download in Kubuntu...

When MS came out with live it was just like a little test to see if people would like the service and they charged for it to pay the bills. Now with all of the adds they place all over the dashboard alone, they shouldn't need to charge anything because they make enough money off of the ads I'm sure of it. How come Sony can offer their online for free and MS can't?

Actually have PS3s bundled with 160GB HDDs and Uncharted for $520, but I wouldn't buy that since you can get a much bigger laptop HDD for an extra $120, minus the game... 360's HDDs are overpriced and small compared to what you can have on a PS3, if you need the space. I LOL@ their 60GB HDD for $110+...


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16519.1.2009 17:45
varnull
Inactive

7 pages.. 90% of which is complete and utter fanboy crap.

the 360 is affordable gaming with a good selection of games at often discounted rates.. Therefore it offers more "bang per buck" whatever that moronic statement means.. because it IS cheaper.. has MORE games.. and does the same thing.

Whine on for another 9 days and 3 million pointless fanboy posts.. why the hell not.. great way to troll up your postcount eh??

want to know what I think??.. look in the console forums.. 99% of console buyers are morons .. fanboys who go on and on about "which one is ""best"" doubly so .. get your knuckles off the floor and start dong something real with your lives for a change... there is a world outside your salty smelling bedrooms .. ooops.. shhhh.. that's a secret only us real people know XD

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2009 @ 17:47

16619.1.2009 18:10

Interesting, so the PS3 is better because it makes illegal downloads easier. Not really a legitimate criticism of the other product, if I' honest.
Whatever, like varnull says, there's nothing to be achieved here.




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16719.1.2009 18:43

Quote:
everything that they claim is suited for their life costs extra to get it on the 360 but is FREE on the ps3. how retarded can a person be to think that way?
At times we all need to think before we speak and here is an example with this post above. Nothing on the PS3 is free as that is the main reason that it is priced higher than the other consoles and the xbox360 giving the consumer the option to decide what you want gave grounds to lower prices for consumers who dont want all the extras. As far as that approach being retarded. I will not stoop to your level of name calling as your posting makes me think you have yet to experience your adolescent years and maturity is not in your corner but i will leave you with this. All those retarded add-ons that microsoft left off allows for the console to be sold at $199. Just imagine if the PS3 had a base unit with all the features but without a hardrive and minus the Wifi. Isnot it better to buy your own hardrive anyway allowing for more storage than the 80gig offers? With a optional PS3 console with an ethernet port that would suffice for online gameplay this could have possible made way for an $199 version of the PS3 console that could would surely be a thorn in the xbox360 side. Honestly, think about it. I think it would have helped their sales tremendously.

Exactly what does a 5 year old need with a hardrive, wireless adapter, or even internet to play online? I am pro-choice.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2009 @ 21:43

16819.1.2009 20:00

Originally posted by sammorris:
Interesting, so the PS3 is better because it makes illegal downloads easier. Not really a legitimate criticism of the other product, if I' honest.
Whatever, like varnull says, there's nothing to be achieved here.
Since when is downloading movies that I already own illegal? I download them all onto my PS3 so I can have all of them in one place and I always have an original copy in case any losers come knocking on my door... If I don't own the movie then it isn't worth my time.

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16919.1.2009 21:41

post removed

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Jan 2009 @ 21:42

17020.1.2009 0:06

Perhaps some of these fanboys aught to realise that paying for a online service like Live is a common practice in online gaming. That's how WoW and many other games function. Comparing the cost of a subscription of WoW to Live you'll see that it's considerably less. About a third to a quarter of the price.

So, in conclusion, it's NOT unreasonable for M$ to charge for a "gold" service that gives you access to all their games. You still have "silver" if you want access to all the downloadable content for free.

Since the advent of NXE, sidestepped in this thread, you can play the whole game off HDD now. This quiets the 360 considerably, and in all probabilty will allieviate the RRoD hassle owners have. (because the drive located above the GPU is not generating so much heat).

As said before M$ will send an arcade owner a cheap HDD anyway. So it's no big deal. Anyway pop your own 120g HDD in it- I did.

Because $M went to the effort of creating the NXE- I would not be surprised if a browser may be in the works too. NXE demonstrates that M$ are committed to the 360 for a while yet. So talk of them ditching it to compete against the superior vaporware games endlessly promised by $ony and their fans is silly.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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17120.1.2009 0:10

I think MS was quoted somewhere in this thread that they would never bring a browser or the option to install an OS because it would take away from the PC platform or something...


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17220.1.2009 0:30

Originally posted by Morreale:
...Blu-Ray, card readers, Bluetooth, a rechargeable controller, an 80GB HDD(any size really), DVD upscaling...
Please, Morreale, get some facts right... the 360 has a "Scalar" chip specifically designed for upscaling, so no load on it's GPU. Unlike the PS3 which has to do it in software. (Also it's BluRay playback is done in software, which makes it questionable as to whether it's actually better to buy a dedicated hardware player for the job and extend the lifespan of what is, after all, a pretty crap optical drive assembly.)

The issue of having to have a rechargeable controller is dealt with with easily with NiMh batteries. So why keep bringing that up?

Please tell me why Bluetooth is better than WiFi mate- I can control the 360 from the other side of the house with it, so...?

PS. Btw, all decompression of data is also handled in the 360 (and the original Xbox) by dedicated hardware in real time on the fly. Just so you know.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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17320.1.2009 0:46

Ok, I didn't know the 360 upscaled, guess it's my friend's crappy TV :P

360 has it's fair share of optical problems too, but I'll stay out of that.

You have to pay for rechargeable batteries either way. It just adds on top.

I'm not saying it's better controller-wise, I like it because sometimes I use it on Linux to transfer files on and off my celly just like I do on my iMac... Just some random stuff that I might find while I'm on or something.

Any better? :)


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17420.1.2009 1:02
july09
Inactive

Hello Everyone.....

Thnx for all your information...

17520.1.2009 1:20

Originally posted by july09:
Hello Everyone.....

Thnx for all your information...

You are spam

Life is Grand !

17620.1.2009 6:26

Morreale: There's nothing to stop you putting Linux on a 360, the wifi control is excellent. My 360 genuinely runs cooler having installed the games to the hard drive, and its actually reasonably quiet.
Also, I paid 6 quid for my rechargable battery & play and charge kit. Granted, it's not an official product, but it does the job.




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17720.1.2009 8:36

Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
...Blu-Ray, card readers, Bluetooth, a rechargeable controller, an 80GB HDD(any size really), DVD upscaling...
Please, Morreale, get some facts right... the 360 has a "Scalar" chip specifically designed for upscaling, so no load on it's GPU. Unlike the PS3 which has to do it in software. (Also it's BluRay playback is done in software, which makes it questionable as to whether it's actually better to buy a dedicated hardware player for the job and extend the lifespan of what is, after all, a pretty crap optical drive assembly.)

The issue of having to have a rechargeable controller is dealt with with easily with NiMh batteries. So why keep bringing that up?

Please tell me why Bluetooth is better than WiFi mate- I can control the 360 from the other side of the house with it, so...?

PS. Btw, all decompression of data is also handled in the 360 (and the original Xbox) by dedicated hardware in real time on the fly. Just so you know.
It still has cheap and slow upscaling compared to dedicated units, the PS3 is better but not by much. You have to remember the 360 was not meant to do all this and they been shoe horning in crap into it with no real goal to make a solid media center out of the mess.

The 360 reminds me of what my friends say about heir Harleys it looks great runs good enough but has issues with parts running out,ect.

17820.1.2009 9:38

i don't even remember what i posted before... i know i only posted once and by default, i subscribed to this thread. Well, now that my one post is deleted, shouldn't i be automatically unsubscribed to this thread?

Oh wait, i did remember i said something about people like ugly things, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, that's it... No matter how flawed a system is, as long as people like it, who cares really.

Personally, buying a separate WiFi unit and adding the purchase cost on top of the console don't equal to "more bang for your buck" or anything in that nature. It's never the same as built in WiFi... Maybe two years ago, that's conceivable, but right now?! Come on, are we really still that backward? Are any of you still using fat monitors?! Regardless what's your Xbox network configuration, w/o WiFi, the physical location of the Xbox is pretty much fixed. Again, i don't mind doing the extra work two years ago, but certainly not now...

17920.1.2009 9:55

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
i don't even remember what i posted before... i know i only posted once and by default, i subscribed to this thread. Well, now that my one post is deleted, shouldn't i be automatically unsubscribed to this thread?
"It's behind you" ... -> http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/738400/4490432

18020.1.2009 10:38

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
i don't even remember what i posted before... i know i only posted once and by default, i subscribed to this thread. Well, now that my one post is deleted, shouldn't i be automatically unsubscribed to this thread?

Oh wait, i did remember i said something about people like ugly things, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, that's it... No matter how flawed a system is, as long as people like it, who cares really.

Personally, buying a separate WiFi unit and adding the purchase cost on top of the console don't equal to "more bang for your buck" or anything in that nature. It's never the same as built in WiFi... Maybe two years ago, that's conceivable, but right now?! Come on, are we really still that backward? Are any of you still using fat monitors?! Regardless what's your Xbox network configuration, w/o WiFi, the physical location of the Xbox is pretty much fixed. Again, i don't mind doing the extra work two years ago, but certainly not now...
The nature of consumerism is witlessness masochism, IE they do not think or question thus why you see alot of dings and nicks in mass market goods but they can get away with it.

The PS3 is built with the newest tech but they try to hard to promote the wireless stuff that no mater how good I would rather have wired, the 360 is still a Frankenstein but a kinder gentler one than it use to be. The WII is a child, a high tech child...on cocaine it dose soemthigns well but thier are gaps in design elements in both hardware and software that makes any techie wonder WTF.

Its still about a grand for all 3 and 10 or so games and frankly...its still not worth the price of admission...

18120.1.2009 11:40

I also notice one of my posts here has gone missing. Meh. I too think wired networking is the only way to go if you care about playing games.

18220.1.2009 11:48

Sam - I can't see any of your posts having been deleted either.




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18320.1.2009 11:55

It wasn't really a particularly useful post, I just commented that I thought the PS3 looked better than the xbox, in contrast to whoever said otherwise.




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18420.1.2009 11:55

Originally posted by creaky:
Sam - I can't see any of your posts having been deleted either.
Sometimes I write a post out and it dose not take it...then again sometimes someone(raises hand) forgets to hit post >>

18520.1.2009 16:00

Originally posted by sammorris:
Morreale: There's nothing to stop you putting Linux on a 360,
Well voiding the warranty does, and with it's dark history I'd rather keep it...

PS3 you just install the OtherOs and install+boot your Linux distro of choice; Gentoo, Ubuntu, Fedora or Yellow Dog.

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18620.1.2009 16:04

Good thing they're cheap enough to just buy another then :P





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18720.1.2009 16:07

Bringing my total to like $700 lol


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18820.1.2009 17:37

300+300 = 700. I see.




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18920.1.2009 18:27

And a Wifi Adapter...


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19020.1.2009 18:32

Well, technically, if you did replace the system you could just get an arcade which are only $200. The official adapter being $87, that'd be $587, assuming the console even broke in the first place. With the new revisions, who knows? Not to mention the four free games you got, which would be worth what, $150? 550 versus 587 doesn't seem too raw a deal, especially considering this all relies on the fact that the xbox will actually break in the first place.




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19120.1.2009 19:10

Originally posted by sammorris:
Well, technically, if you did replace the system you could just get an arcade which are only $200. The official adapter being $87, that'd be $587, assuming the console even broke in the first place. With the new revisions, who knows? Not to mention the four free games you got, which would be worth what, $150? 550 versus 587 doesn't seem too raw a deal, especially considering this all relies on the fact that the xbox will actually break in the first place.

I'd put 200 more into one and leave it offline, chip it save some cash then have the other for all the online crap MS offers.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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19220.1.2009 19:15

Been there done that :)




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19320.1.2009 19:17

Originally posted by sammorris:
Been there done that :)
And from the smilie I see things are still working well :X

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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19420.1.2009 19:18

Give it time, we only carried out the procedure three days ago...




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19520.1.2009 19:24

Originally posted by sammorris:
Give it time, we only carried out the procedure three days ago...
I hope it survives its operation well and has a long life!!

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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19620.1.2009 19:25

Until the DVD drive finally gives out I suppose... :S It wasn't in perfect health before, but hey, we bought it before Christmas 06...




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19721.1.2009 10:40

You guys/gals still going the math thing... While it kinda make sense, but it doesn't really matter anymore. What bothers me more is that MS never redesign the Xbox 360 (adding a HDMI port is not really a redesign). Shouldn't there be a slimmer, cooler (maybe not cooler, but definitely something "improved"?) by now? By that i mean, something "sexy" (like Apple products) w/o red rings problems, bigger/better hdd upgrade options and build in WiFi? I guess we'll never see that day do we? Well, with that, at least now you can compare with the PS3's prices and what not.


Peace!

19821.1.2009 10:51

The 360 is built to a price, and it shows. They've only just got the heat down enough for it to run properly full size, let alone shrunk. The same goes for the PS3, it uses too much power, and therefore produces too much heat to be shrunk down. The old PS2 slim used 40W and went slim when it dropped to about 25. Even the new xbox 360 uses 140W and the PS3 170W.




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19921.1.2009 10:56

Originally posted by sammorris:
The 360 is built to a price, and it shows. They've only just got the heat down enough for it to run properly full size, let alone shrunk. The same goes for the PS3, it uses too much power, and therefore produces too much heat to be shrunk down. The old PS2 slim used 40W and went slim when it dropped to about 25. Even the new xbox 360 uses 140W and the PS3 170W.
Well putting the DVD drive below the board and adding more vents/ducts to the CPU/GPU to improve heat dispensation is a start.....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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20021.1.2009 10:59

Originally posted by sammorris:
The 360 is built to a price, and it shows. They've only just got the heat down enough for it to run properly full size, let alone shrunk. The same goes for the PS3, it uses too much power, and therefore produces too much heat to be shrunk down. The old PS2 slim used 40W and went slim when it dropped to about 25. Even the new xbox 360 uses 140W and the PS3 170W.
Okay, maybe not slim then... Yeah, i heard about those slim desktops, they have air circulation problems. Yeah, it would be funny if the Xbox is actually slimmed down and the power brick is still the same size, lol. This i don't get, why the damn power brick has to be so big? It doesn't bother me much since it's on the back of the TV and stuffs, but still, people do move around their Xbox.



Peace!

20121.1.2009 11:02

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by sammorris:
The 360 is built to a price, and it shows. They've only just got the heat down enough for it to run properly full size, let alone shrunk. The same goes for the PS3, it uses too much power, and therefore produces too much heat to be shrunk down. The old PS2 slim used 40W and went slim when it dropped to about 25. Even the new xbox 360 uses 140W and the PS3 170W.
Okay, maybe not slim then... Yeah, i heard about those slim desktops, they have air circulation problems. Yeah, it would be funny if the Xbox is actually slimmed down and the power brick is still the same size, lol. This i don't get, why the damn power brick has to be so big? It doesn't bother me much since it's on the back of the TV and stuffs, but still, people do move around their Xbox.

Because it requires as much power if not more than a laptop.

I'd rather have a 360 thats the size of a VHS/DVD/DVR with plenty of room for cooling that what they are now.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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20221.1.2009 11:03

Because the xbox uses so much power, the power brick needs to be that size. The bricks for things like phone chargers use a twentieth of the power that the xbox does. Even laptop chargers use half as much, hence why they're twice the size. Think about how big a PC power supply inside is - it's exactly the same device inside. The PS3 puts it inside, which is primarily why the console is larger than xbox.
Fortunately, reduced heat (i.e size) is from reduced power - and reduced power means a smaller power brick.
Zippy: You've presumably seen the mods where people put xbox 360s in tower PC cases, or add LED fans in the top panel?


This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Jan 2009 @ 11:04



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20321.1.2009 11:09

Originally posted by sammorris:
Because the xbox uses so much power, the power brick needs to be that size. The bricks for things like phone chargers use a twentieth of the power that the xbox does. Even laptop chargers use half as much, hence why they're twice the size. Think about how big a PC power supply inside is - it's exactly the same device inside. The PS3 puts it inside, which is primarily why the console is larger than xbox.
Fortunately, reduced heat (i.e size) is from reduced power - and reduced power means a smaller power brick.
Zippy: You've presumably seen the mods where people put xbox 360s in tower PC cases, or add LED fans in the top panel?
I have seen some.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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20421.1.2009 22:32

Originally posted by Morreale:
...You have to pay for rechargeable batteries either way. It just adds on top...

Any better? :)
Well, look at it this way Morreale, I have a number of devices in my place that I use long-life rechargeable batteries in already. eg Camera, torches etc. It only makes sense because it's more convenient and far cheaper. Most modern people are adopting NiMh because of it's cost effectiveness and it's greener (I'd be willing to bet you do too).

Ergo, it didn't add anything to the top. (And it's actually more versatile because more devices benefit from that arrangement anyway.) Regardless, I don't know where you are but I assume that a 4pack of NiMh batteries would cost only about $8 in the states.

In conclusion, at the very least, it doesn't make the 360 any more expensive than the PS3. So it's an utterly pissweak argument to keep bringing up.

Regards anyway.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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20522.1.2009 0:19

Just did a quick search, 4-pack (I'd have 2 controllers at least) of Duracell NiMh batteries without a charger is $30+tax... That's enough for me...


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20622.1.2009 0:57

Originally posted by Morreale:
Just did a quick search, 4-pack (I'd have 2 controllers at least) of Duracell NiMh batteries without a charger is $30+tax... That's enough for me...
Haha, you would pick one the most expensive brands wouldn't you? Perhaps that's why you own a iMac.

You pay for the advertising and hype... Become shop-smart and try a different brand and stop being so obtuse. AfterDawn is a great site precisely because it makes one more aware of the options available to users (like Hackintoshes for instance), amongst other things.

I use Powertech 2400mAh batteries, about $16 here in Oz and our dollar is worth about half of the States'. They're perfectly serviceable, 1000 recharges. Oh yeah, the fast charger (PowerTech Plus) was about $35AUS.

EDIT: I just occurred to me you said: "I've never had a controller die on me when I'm playing, and when the battery is low I just grab my other controller off of the USB and put the dead one on. No problems." So you had to buy a second controller just to achieve the kind of continuous wireless playing myself and others on this thread get by just swapping over a pair of NiMh! ROFL.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Jan 2009 @ 2:58

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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20722.1.2009 7:51

Haha, that is quite funny actually. It didn't occur to me you can't just swap the batteries in an instant when they go flat.
Also, I can buy a NimH battery pack with the batteries, including a play and charge cable too, for 7 off ebay. Given the 130 price differential between the two consoles, that's a lot of wireless battery packs.




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