AfterDawn: Tech news

Xbox 360 has 54.2 percent failure rate

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 19 Aug 2009 0:43 User comments (122)

Xbox 360 has 54.2 percent failure rate According to a GameInformer article, the Xbox 360 still has a high failure rate, of 54.2 percent, due to the dreaded RROD, e74, and other errors, a number much higher than its current console rivals.
The PlayStation 3 had a 10.6 percent failure rate and the Wii was even lower, at 6.8 percent.

The survey used 5000 readers, but the article does mention a few notes to go along with the numbers. The Xbox 360 is the mot used console of the three, with 40 percent of respondents saying they use it 3-5 hours per day compared to 37 percent for PS3 owners and under 20 percent for Wii users, meaning the numbers may be a bit skewed.

Additionally, those surveyed found Microsoft to have the most "unhelpful customer service," with consoles taking almost a month to be repaired or replaced, compared to 8 days for a PS3 or a Wii. 56 percent of respondents found Nintendo customer service "very helpful" compared to 51.1 percent for Sony and a measly 37.7 percent for Microsoft.

Despite all those numbers however, only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another 360 console due to the hardware failure or the poor service.

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122 user comments

119.8.2009 0:52

"the Xbox 360 still has a high failure rate, of 54.2 percent"
-Microsoft would call this a 46.8% sucess rate.

"those surveyed found Microsoft to have the most "unhelpful customer service,""
-Anyone who has ever called microsoft for anything could have told you that.

"only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another console due to the hardware failure or the poor service"
-I wonder if they said "any console" or "xbox 360" when they asked this question...most of those with failed xbox360's probably said "Yeah, I am going to get another console to replace it...and the new one is going to be a PS3"

219.8.2009 0:57

Quote:
Despite all those numbers however, only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another console due to the hardware failure or the poor service.
Ignorance truly is bliss....

319.8.2009 1:01

Originally posted by KillerBug:

"only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another console due to the hardware failure or the poor service"
-I wonder if they said "any console" or "xbox 360" when they asked this question...most of those with failed xbox360's probably said "Yeah, I am going to get another console to replace it...and the new one is going to be a PS3"
Hey KillerBug, I was editing the article but you posted before it was published. It should have read "only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another Xbox_360 console due to the hardware failure or the poor service"
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Aug 2009 @ 1:02

419.8.2009 2:29

Pretty vague ain't it,what percentage of them were 2nd hand,refurbished or new

519.8.2009 2:41

Quote:
Quote:
Despite all those numbers however, only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another console due to the hardware failure or the poor service.
Ignorance truly is bliss....
Yeah I face palmed when I read that as well.

The failure rate is rather shocking but most of my friends who own xbox's are on their 2nd or 3rd one, so I guess its just shocking because its in plain sight.

619.8.2009 3:52

Originally posted by scorpNZ:
Pretty vague ain't it,what percentage of them were 2nd hand,refurbished or new
My guess is that they take a unit and consider any type of malfunction a failure. Meaning a console exchanging hands is irrelevant. If it fails, it's counted.

719.8.2009 4:05

Funny people posting to this. I had my xbox break and called microsoft and theyemailed me my stamp to send system back and i got a new one 2 weeks later. They didnt try to weasel their way out of it at all. If your a sony fan boy and have no expercience with the xbox dont bother posting.

819.8.2009 6:02
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
Pretty vague ain't it,what percentage of them were 2nd hand,refurbished or new
My guess is that they take a unit and consider any type of malfunction a failure. Meaning a console exchanging hands is irrelevant. If it fails, it's counted.
That's what I was thinking.

5000 people is not a fair test, those 2500 people could have been the only ones that have ever experienced rrod... I bet most of the people that voted were ps3 fanboys (probably from sonydefenseforce.com).

919.8.2009 6:34

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
Pretty vague ain't it,what percentage of them were 2nd hand,refurbished or new
My guess is that they take a unit and consider any type of malfunction a failure. Meaning a console exchanging hands is irrelevant. If it fails, it's counted.
That's what I was thinking.

5000 people is not a fair test, those 2500 people could have been the only ones that have ever experienced rrod... I bet most of the people that voted were ps3 fanboys (probably from sonydefenseforce.com).
In order for the study to be considered scientific they would have built protections against this type of result. Of course the 2500 people in the poll could have been the only ones that got rrod, but we're dealing with probabilities here. Does that sound probable to you? More than likely they have a confidence number associated to this study and it's in the high 90 percentile. So they would be ninty some percent sure their result was within reason.

Don't get on the ignorance train just because you like once console or the other. The 360 is just the PS2 of this generation, face it. I'd have to say that my friends have sent their rrods back have seen decent waiting times for returns (2 weeks +), but not bad customer service. I can say also, that everyone I know that owns a 360 but me has sent theirs back at least once. I definitely believe this statistic. Don't be ignorant and disagree before you have any facts. PS3 vs 360 is so similar to republican vs democrat it makes me want to throw up. If you find yourself saying "PS3 is lame" or "360 is crap" congratulations, you're an idiot. You don't like video games, you like a console. Video games are what you put INSIDE the console.

1019.8.2009 7:20
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
Pretty vague ain't it,what percentage of them were 2nd hand,refurbished or new
My guess is that they take a unit and consider any type of malfunction a failure. Meaning a console exchanging hands is irrelevant. If it fails, it's counted.
That's what I was thinking.

5000 people is not a fair test, those 2500 people could have been the only ones that have ever experienced rrod... I bet most of the people that voted were ps3 fanboys (probably from sonydefenseforce.com).
In order for the study to be considered scientific they would have built protections against this type of result. Of course the 2500 people in the poll could have been the only ones that got rrod, but we're dealing with probabilities here. Does that sound probable to you? More than likely they have a confidence number associated to this study and it's in the high 90 percentile. So they would be ninty some percent sure their result was within reason.

Don't get on the ignorance train just because you like once console or the other. The 360 is just the PS2 of this generation, face it. I'd have to say that my friends have sent their rrods back have seen decent waiting times for returns (2 weeks +), but not bad customer service. I can say also, that everyone I know that owns a 360 but me has sent theirs back at least once. I definitely believe this statistic. Don't be ignorant and disagree before you have any facts. PS3 vs 360 is so similar to republican vs democrat it makes me want to throw up. If you find yourself saying "PS3 is lame" or "360 is crap" congratulations, you're an idiot. You don't like video games, you like a console. Video games are what you put INSIDE the console.
5000:20000000 = 1:4000... That is not a fair test.

"...the xbox 360 still has a high failure rate..." That implies that the survey was conducted for new xbox 360's (which it wouldn't of been). But the xbox release date failure rate was 50%, so by that logic this news if 4 years old.

1119.8.2009 9:52

Crunch the numbers down even further when taking into account the amount of units sold per console. 360 still in the lead, that failure rate fails into comparison to their success with the console. It's as I said before tho, most consoles that did get returned no matter the console; most cases people didn't take care of it properly.

Example: They should have added on a better cooling system for what $10-$20, then make sure their console is not in a closed environment having plenty of air circulation; and for those that know how, cleaning the systems once in a while is a bonus for longevity. My 360 is 3 years old, it's the 20GB model and I clocked a shit load of hours on to it, and I mean I averaged 500-1000 hours a year; but I take care of my consoles, do you? My other consoles are just as old or older and did not suffer failure either.

1219.8.2009 10:22

hell, i had a launch console for 3 years and it never RROD on me, and it was on 16-20 hours a day. only got rid of it due to it being banned from LIVE, and the friend i sold it to has been playing it sense. the other two consoles ive owned have yet to RROD either. maybe im just lucky, or i know how to take care of my stuff.

as to their customer service, sure it isnt the greatest, but what would you expect when youre calling a place half way around the world that can barely understand you? everytime i've called MS support for repair of the consoles that i've bought on ebay for refurb/resale, i end up getting what i needed out of them, a free repair, that DOES NOT take a month. the longest its taken is 16 days, usually its around 7 days, and i live in indiana and ship it to the texas repair center. not bad i say.

1319.8.2009 12:30

54% seems about right lol

If I were to make my own pole based on 25 of my friends who have a 360, about 18 of them have had the RROD, some multiple times... I just bought a 360, and if it RRODs on me I'm just gonna smash it, I don't care. I'll just continue to pay for my games on the PS3.

1419.8.2009 12:47

I have had Xbox 360 since launch date here (December 2nd, 2005), played it for many many hours each week and it failed after a little over three years. I have two now, one I got second hand for a second room and the original, which I fixed myself back in February and it hasn't failed since.

There's no doubt that something was indeed wrong with the design, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. That being said, I'll never talk down my original investment in Xbox 360, I've played way too many excellent games on it, and it served me well for playing multimedia content over a WiFi network for years now. I guess though since I am pretty handy with hardware, I can shrug off E74 or RROD, so the experience might be different for people who went through M$ to get a console or more fixed.

Still though, when I read these articles on AfterDawn, sometimes I have to laugh at the comments, some of them really seem like some users get instant bliss when they hear about Xbox 360's failing. On the other hand, when the PS3 was doing bad with sales, or when the Xbox 360 beats it somehow, there are others who seem to get instant pleasure from that too... and to those users (I wont name names in order to avoid a silly pointless flame war), seriously... I hope you are all 14 years old cause if you aren't... and you aren't a shareholder of either company and directly affected success or failure.... take it easy, it doesn't matter (obviously to a user on their 3rd Xbox I understand the pain... but for those who never owned one and just spout out criticism about other people's experience.... why are you really doing that? Same to fanboys of Xbox 360... they are game consoles... who gives a shit.. really?)

1519.8.2009 13:07

Originally posted by KillerBug:
"the Xbox 360 still has a high failure rate, of 54.2 percent"
-Microsoft would call this a 46.8% sucess rate.

They might call it that, but they'd be giving themselves 1% too much credit. ;-)

(54.2 + 46.8 = 101)

1619.8.2009 13:07

This was a poll of Gameinformer readers only. Definitely not scientific or conclusive. Certainly there is a higher than competition failure/problem rate. But if you want to be entirely accurate, the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' 360 consoles fail. I still have a launch console that I play on an irregular basis and no problems yet, I am not, however, a GameInformer reader. ---Chikn

1719.8.2009 14:22

heres a quote o mine from here
http://gamepolitics.com/2009/08/17/repor...-rate-pegged-54

Quote:
I have done some research on the 360 fail rate more, and more than zippy skimming and ass'uuming mind you.

Heres a few interesting links I have found

This one alludes to it being 16% on current units

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

And this one is one of the best, even if he is hocvking a book, truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://games.venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/...e-console-woes/

=======

From all the digging I have read it seems the 360 total fail rate is around the 60% margin for its all time high now that includes production line issues.

Now frankly I think the real number is still around a 4 in 10 ratio or 25-40% ratio you simply have to many refrubs and older units in play and thats going to to affect the numbers some but no more than double possible fail rate of 10-20%.

TL DR

New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.

MS was sloppy and poorly built and revised the 360 if they did it right the first time they probably would have made more than Nin and the WII......

1819.8.2009 14:43

Quote:
This was a poll of Gameinformer readers only. Definitely not scientific or conclusive. Certainly there is a higher than competition failure/problem rate. But if you want to be entirely accurate, the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' 360 consoles fail. I still have a launch console that I play on an irregular basis and no problems yet, I am not, however, a GameInformer reader. ---Chikn
I haven't looked at it, but if this is true, the study can't be trusted. The problem is that the sample isn't random enough. If you poll only gameinformer readers you're not saying much about the general population. One would think GameInformer readers would play their consoles more, but who knows.

There have been some really bad reasons why people don't like this survey however.

Quote:
5000:20000000 = 1:4000... That is not a fair test.
It's called a 'sample'. When gallup polls people or Nielson gets the tv ratings what percentage of the total population do you think they survey? Do the math yourself here http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm looks like 5000 is a perfectly fine number to me.

Quote:
most cases people didn't take care of it properly.

Example: They should have added on a better cooling system for what $10-$20, then make sure their console is not in a closed environment having plenty of air circulation; and for those that know how, cleaning the systems once in a while is a bonus for longevity.
Buying add ons is not expected when buy hardware. If not buying a cooling system for a console is neglect then Microsoft would have added it in the first place.

The problem I see with this whole thing is that 360s install base is most likely heavily inflated due to repurchases. I know a ton of people who said "Yeah my 360 is breaking, I'm gonna buy a new one" with no idea that they could return it under the massive warranty they have. They are still way ahead of Sony (especially in the states), but exactly how many working consoles are sitting in peoples houses is a really good question. Not only that but the maintenance and replacement costs under the warranty are no doubt astronomical.

I mentioned this article to my wife and her immediate response was "Then why would people buy one?"
"Because it's about playing video games. 360 has some good ones and with a 3 year guaranteed warranty, you're sure to get that much fun out of it."

1919.8.2009 14:48

Quote:
Quote:
This was a poll of Gameinformer readers only. Definitely not scientific or conclusive. Certainly there is a higher than competition failure/problem rate. But if you want to be entirely accurate, the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' 360 consoles fail. I still have a launch console that I play on an irregular basis and no problems yet, I am not, however, a GameInformer reader. ---Chikn
I haven't looked at it, but if this is true, the study can't be trusted. The problem is that the sample isn't random enough. If you poll only gameinformer readers you're not saying much about the general population. One would think GameInformer readers would play their consoles more, but who knows.

There have been some really bad reasons why people don't like this survey however.

Quote:
5000:20000000 = 1:4000... That is not a fair test.
It's called a 'sample'. When gallup polls people or Nielson gets the tv ratings what percentage of the total population do you think they survey? Do the math yourself here http://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm looks like 5000 is a perfectly fine number to me.

Quote:
most cases people didn't take care of it properly.

Example: They should have added on a better cooling system for what $10-$20, then make sure their console is not in a closed environment having plenty of air circulation; and for those that know how, cleaning the systems once in a while is a bonus for longevity.
Buying add ons is not expected when buy hardware. If not buying a cooling system for a console is neglect then Microsoft would have added it in the first place.

The problem I see with this whole thing is that 360s install base is most likely heavily inflated due to repurchases. I know a ton of people who said "Yeah my 360 is breaking, I'm gonna buy a new one" with no idea that they could return it under the massive warranty they have. They are still way ahead of Sony (especially in the states), but exactly how many working consoles are sitting in peoples houses is a really good question. Not only that but the maintenance and replacement costs under the warranty are no doubt astronomical.

I mentioned this article to my wife and her immediate response was "Then why would people buy one?"
"Because it's about playing video games. 360 has some good ones and with a 3 year guaranteed warranty, you're sure to get that much fun out of it."
I agree to a point I see it as this old units,refurbs,ect make up roughly half of the current total unit numbers. These units will be the most likely to fail, then the new units might have a real fail rate as low as 5-10% this means that 70-90% of that 50% number are older units.

The trouble is the 360 was handled poorly and that is a fact no one can deny.

2019.8.2009 16:59

In what world is a 50% failure rate for anything, not a basis for fraud proceedings?

Could you imagine: "Ford's new Volt, electric car is great and everyone loves it, even though every other one must be returned to Ford for replacement or repair."

Heads would roll.

2119.8.2009 17:01

Originally posted by ThePastor:
In what world is a 50% failure rate for anything, not a basis for fraud proceedings?

Could you imagine: "Ford's new Volt, electric car is great and everyone loves it, even though every other one must be returned to Ford for replacement or repair."

Heads would roll.
Ya but this is MS instead of doing anything about it they extended the warranty to something that's not industry standard to try and head off the brunt of the damage. It was in scrupulous but not necessarily illegal. Besides they spent 3B on the RROD fiasco still tho....they've not learned their lesson...

2219.8.2009 17:58

Wake up ppl the failure rate is AT least that high. Ive had 2 360s and they both went after 2 years, in fairness i played the first 1 to death but the second one i didnt use that often and was well pissed when it went. A friend of mine went through 5 after getting repairs & replacements and hes not even a hardcore gamer. Mircosoft should be up in court for releasing such a shit product.Only bought the 360 because of gears will never buy microsoft again, F.U.K U Mircocok. Why dont the cpu and gpu have fans like in PCs, pure scabbiness on mircocoks part i presume

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Aug 2009 @ 18:00

2319.8.2009 18:11

This article is interesting. But through research online I found that the Xbox has a high failure rate compared to the PS3.
But what was noted in one post that users for the 360 used their console a lot on a daily or every two day basis. That is a lot of use for a machine!!! But their are failure rates for PS3, I ran into it myself this past January!! I called Sony support and they were horrible in the customer service department, it happened just after my one year warranty was up. I was pissed off for their lack of help on the phone. I found better help online looking around trying to salvage my ps3!!

But what is noticeable online forums is their are a lot of people out there loyal to one console and to me personally find a lot of them on either side (PS3 or 360 owners) are very rude and plain out stupid!!

I only owned PS3 up until this past March, I wanted a 360 because of the titles I couldn't buy for the PS3. I like it but I still play PS3 a little bit more than the 360. But I have equal amount of games for both, I have 8 games each for both consoles. No titles are the same either.

If I am out of warranty on any of my consoles or any electronic equipment of mine. I just take it apart and fix it.

I mentioned my first PS3 I have, it works now I replaced the whole blu ray lens deck with the exact same model of blu ray lens and now I have two PS3 consoles!! I was out of warranty so what the heck, take it apart and I did a lot of research first to see if it would actually work for me.

Now I have two, I use one for blu ray movies and dvd's. The other straight game play and the same with my X-Box 360. Both work great for gaming.

But great article, just wanted to say something about the differences in the major consoles. There isn't much but only that there are alot of loyalists towards their specific brand. IMO a true gamer is someone who plays any game and loves playing the games on whatever he or she playing it on.

2419.8.2009 18:16

Originally posted by Gryphon77:
This article is interesting. But through research online I found that the Xbox has a high failure rate compared to the PS3.
But what was noted in one post that users for the 360 used their console a lot on a daily or every two day basis. That is a lot of use for a machine!!! But their are failure rates for PS3, I ran into it myself this past January!! I called Sony support and they were horrible in the customer service department, it happened just after my one year warranty was up. I was pissed off for their lack of help on the phone. I found better help online looking around trying to salvage my ps3!!

But what is noticeable online forums is their are a lot of people out there loyal to one console and to me personally find a lot of them on either side (PS3 or 360 owners) are very rude and plain out stupid!!

I only owned PS3 up until this past March, I wanted a 360 because of the titles I couldn't buy for the PS3. I like it but I still play PS3 a little bit more than the 360. But I have equal amount of games for both, I have 8 games each for both consoles. No titles are the same either.

If I am out of warranty on any of my consoles or any electronic equipment of mine. I just take it apart and fix it.

I mentioned my first PS3 I have, it works now I replaced the whole blu ray lens deck with the exact same model of blu ray lens and now I have two PS3 consoles!! I was out of warranty so what the heck, take it apart and I did a lot of research first to see if it would actually work for me.

Now I have two, I use one for blu ray movies and dvd's. The other straight game play and the same with my X-Box 360. Both work great for gaming.

But great article, just wanted to say something about the differences in the major consoles. There isn't much but only that there are alot of loyalists towards their specific brand. IMO a true gamer is someone who plays any game and loves playing the games on whatever he or she playing it on.
I have noticed that the PS3 has either some lite overheating issues and some drive issues, I would be that surprised if it was in the 5-10% range.

The 360 is a mess though...I kinda wish MS would launch a model 2 I'd rather buy one of those than ahve to deal with the 360 even the newer current models...

2519.8.2009 19:11

hhmm... strangely of all the people i know, 100% have had their x box fail. mine 2 times..
i do know of a few people that use the PS3 exclusivly after the xbox flamed out..

2619.8.2009 22:12

It was a self-selecting survey.
Hardly the most reliable or accurate source.

You didn't have to prove you even owned an Xbox (or any of them) to comment and give views/opinions.
Given the fanboy tendancies of some console owners I'd take the results of this with a sack full of salt.

The closest to anything reliable is the 16% number - and that was for the 1st SKU version (the Xenon).

Since the Falcon (and particularly Jasper) SKUs, reliability is no longer an issue.
But to assure people they still give a 3yr warranty.

It's a real pity that isn't standard everywhere on everything.

Nobody makes a 'perfect every time' console so of course some people can say their Falcon or Jasper died but it's a real non-issue now.

- and as for what I'd do or buy of my (so far 100% reliable) Falcon died?
Well I'd not be buying anything.
I'd be making sure my Xbox showed the RROD or E74 fault and getting a free replacement.

Why stick with Xbox?
Cos I have 20+ games that I enjoy and it's a superb media streaming unit.
I can put up with a week or 2s break if it has to go off and be repaired/replaced.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Aug 2009 @ 22:17

2719.8.2009 22:15

Originally posted by Interestx:
It was a self-selecting survey.
Hardly the most reliable or accurate source.

You didn't have to prove you even owned an Xbox (or any of them) to comment and give views/opinions.
Given the fanboy tendancies of some console owners I'd take the results of this with a sack full of salt.

The closest to anything reliable is the 16% number - and that was for the 1st SKU version (the Xenon).

Since the Falcon (and particularly Jasper) SKUs reliability is no longer an issue.
But to assure people they still give a 3yr warranty.

Nobody makes a perect every time console so of course some people can say their Falcon or Jasper died but it's a real non-issue now.
Not really since new units are dieing in a 1 to 10 ratio...

2819.8.2009 22:18

quote=ZippyDSM]
Not really since new units are dieing in a 1 to 10 ratio...


10% fail rate on the Jasper?!

Let's see you prove that with serious real proof.

2919.8.2009 22:25
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Interestx:
It was a self-selecting survey.
Hardly the most reliable or accurate source.

You didn't have to prove you even owned an Xbox (or any of them) to comment and give views/opinions.
Given the fanboy tendancies of some console owners I'd take the results of this with a sack full of salt.

The closest to anything reliable is the 16% number - and that was for the 1st SKU version (the Xenon).

Since the Falcon (and particularly Jasper) SKUs reliability is no longer an issue.
But to assure people they still give a 3yr warranty.

Nobody makes a perect every time console so of course some people can say their Falcon or Jasper died but it's a real non-issue now.
Not really since new units are dieing in a 1 to 10 ratio...
Well, according to this survey ps3 has a 10.6 failure rate.

3019.8.2009 22:51

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Interestx:
It was a self-selecting survey.
Hardly the most reliable or accurate source.

You didn't have to prove you even owned an Xbox (or any of them) to comment and give views/opinions.
Given the fanboy tendancies of some console owners I'd take the results of this with a sack full of salt.

The closest to anything reliable is the 16% number - and that was for the 1st SKU version (the Xenon).

Since the Falcon (and particularly Jasper) SKUs reliability is no longer an issue.
But to assure people they still give a 3yr warranty.

Nobody makes a perect every time console so of course some people can say their Falcon or Jasper died but it's a real non-issue now.
Not really since new units are dieing in a 1 to 10 ratio...
Well, according to this survey ps3 has a 10.6 failure rate.
Well if you dig a little you can find that the new consoles have half the fail rate of the old or less. Then by looking at the numbers you can say that old/refrub,ect cover half or so of the units out, so if you have a number of 50% for "all 360's" you can easily take 2/3rds off it for the new units.

AS I said above
Quote:
TL DR

New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.

This study with others merely confirms the higher than normal fail rate with the 360.

I still think the all time fail rate is higher than 50% but I don't really think current fail rate with newer units is above 20% I think its more around 10-15%. But frankly MS screwed up big time on this.

3119.8.2009 22:57

i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.

3219.8.2009 23:00

Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.

3319.8.2009 23:06
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
TL DR

New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.
Please don't tell me you're adding the percentage of the new units + old units (which i believe you are), the new units sold more (or less) than the older units. So adding those two percentages up would not provide a true answer.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Aug 2009 @ 23:08

3419.8.2009 23:13

Quote:
Quote:
TL DR

New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.
Please don't tell me you're adding the percentage of the new units + old units (which i believe you are), the new units sold more (or less) than the older units. So adding those two percentages up would not provide a true answer.
Can you not read above?

Quote:
heres a quote o mine from here
http://gamepolitics.com/2009/08/17/repor...-rate-pegged-54

Quote:
I have done some research on the 360 fail rate more, and more than zippy skimming and ass'uuming mind you.

Heres a few interesting links I have found

This one alludes to it being 16% on current units

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259

And this one is one of the best, even if he is hocvking a book, truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://games.venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/...e-console-woes/

=======

From all the digging I have read it seems the 360 total fail rate is around the 60% margin for its all time high now that includes production line issues.

Now frankly I think the real number is still around a 4 in 10 ratio or 25-40% ratio you simply have to many refrubs and older units in play and thats going to to affect the numbers some but no more than double possible fail rate of 10-20%.

TL DR

New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.

MS was sloppy and poorly built and revised the 360 if they did it right the first time they probably would have made more than Nin and the WII......

New fail rates are in the 15% margin the rest undoubtedly is everything else, but one can only string together so much someone smarter than me will have to report a better itemized study.

With the numbers I am giving take at the minuim take it at the max either way MS fcked up bad.

3519.8.2009 23:15

Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

3619.8.2009 23:19

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.

3719.8.2009 23:27
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???

3819.8.2009 23:49

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.

i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
is it shotty, 3 years sounds pretty good to me. sure beats the hell outa Sony's 1 year.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Aug 2009 @ 23:52

3919.8.2009 23:50

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...

4019.8.2009 23:53
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...
The 3 year warranty is from date of purchase, even if it is repaired it still has a 3 year warranty for 3 rrod and e74 (i've even managed to get them to repair e73 under the 3 year warranty).

4119.8.2009 23:54

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...
The 3 year warranty is from date of purchase, even if it is repaired it still has a 3 year warranty for 3 rrod and e74 (i've even managed to get them to repair e73 under the 3 year warranty).
No the refrubs they send out from the repair centers only have a 90 day warranty on them, same for 3 year'd HDD's..

4219.8.2009 23:54

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...
Makes sense. after all they are a corporation and we all know what corporations look out for.

4319.8.2009 23:57
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...
The 3 year warranty is from date of purchase, even if it is repaired it still has a 3 year warranty for 3 rrod and e74 (i've even managed to get them to repair e73 under the 3 year warranty).
No the refrubs they send out from the repair centers only have a 90 day warranty on them, same for 3 year'd HDD's..
Umm no, every time i've sent in my console they will either send back it repaired, or they will send a refurb with your original serial number. The 3 year warranty is from date of purchase, doesn't matter if you get it repaired.

That 90 day warranty covers any error, like the original 1 year warranty... only quartered.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 0:03

4420.8.2009 0:01

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
i really couldn't say i've experienced the spine tingling sensation called RROD. ive said it a million times over on aD when someone decides to play the rate game.

i know the sound of an xbox 360 game spinning up, i can almost call where its at just by the sound alone.
So you are saying that MS has done enough to deal with the high fail rate issues?

When it comes to sales figures most are subjective and dicking contests but this is a bit different.
i wouldn't know the only failure i've had with my 1st gen box was drive magnets pesky little buggers those things.

have they done enough? they've done everything except a major motherboard overhaul which it needs the GPU and CPU being that close together is not helping the mainboard integrity any. and the side IR plates are useless save for the one by the hdd.

So there shotty warranty plan is good enough?

Well they used either hatachi,ect drives so that's more their issue not really MSs fault other than buying it.... the Xbox did have some heating issues which are magnified in the 360 design.
How is it a shotty warranty plan???
The 3 year warranty is only good until the first failure then you get a refrub with a 90 day warranty, you should get 3 years from the manufacturing date, then the 90 day cycle will start if you are out the first 3 year time line.

There are simply to many loopholes for MS to wiggle out of...
Makes sense. after all they are a corporation and we all know what corporations look out for.
And even MS can't cover its wide ass so well.

4520.8.2009 0:09
H08
Inactive

ohh no, please dont tell me were going to break out the xbox 360 toaster oven, ps3 grill and a picture of a panda riding a go cart!


Originally posted by fun2000:
Your friend in nam is not lying. She has a modded PS2, and the modder was generous enough to relabel the PS2 to PS3.
Then the pirate selling games relabeled Assassins Creed 1 and called it Assassins Creed 2. This is called marketing.
Your friend is honest and thinks she plays AC2 on a PS3. In reality she is playing AC1 on a PS2.

4620.8.2009 0:12

Originally posted by H08:
ohh no, please dont tell me were going to break out the xbox 360 toaster oven, ps3 grill and a picture of a panda riding a go cart!
Yessir, we sure are. now where did i leave it...Haha.


This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 0:15

4720.8.2009 0:14
chris4160
Inactive

Originally posted by H08:
ohh no, please dont tell me were going to break out the xbox 360 toaster oven, ps3 grill and a picture of a panda riding a go cart!
Well, if this continues the way it is now the panda might just be making an appearance ;)

4820.8.2009 0:20




Yay :D

4920.8.2009 0:23
chris4160
Inactive

Originally posted by Morreale:



Yay :D
You cut out the captions... btw didn't i originally post that??? Then i got flamed afterwards for it...

5020.8.2009 0:24

I donno I just googled it lol

5120.8.2009 0:25
varnull
Inactive

Talk about a screwed up survey..

Quote:
the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' 360 consoles fail.
Still not quite accurate.. it should read "the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' who responded to our survey where they didn't even have to prove they own a consele reported a failure."

Now we know happy customers very rarely have enough of a beef with something to waste their time responding to a survey on a product. Most happy customers don't even bother reading those kind or articles in the first place.. they have better things to do with their lives.. enjoying a good game perhaps ;)

5220.8.2009 0:27

Originally posted by Morreale:



Yay :D
ill one up you panda on a go cart.


5320.8.2009 0:37
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:



Yay :D
ill one up you panda on a go cart.



Or when things get really heated:




Btw here's the original panda:


5420.8.2009 10:13

My neighbour bought his at Best Buy with the warranty plan after his 5th unit in 2.5 years they gave him a credit towards PS3 he has been happy ever since. Most of problems were red ring of death I believe he calls it.

5520.8.2009 11:07

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Can you not read above?

This one alludes to it being 16% on current units

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259
Er, no it doesn't actually.

That link was published in Feb 2008 which means the data had to have come from before then.
The Falcon SKU only appeared at the end of Sept 2007.
The Jasper appeared in Dec 2008/Jan 2009.

None of links could possibly contain any info on the Jasper and by virtue of the dates simply cannot contain much, if any, data on the Falcon.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
And this one is one of the best, even if he is hocvking a book, truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://games.venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/...e-console-woes/
Like I pointed out to you before he says in his book that the pre-production runs were showing a 60% fail rate but Microsoft pressed on without ordering a stop and a complete reworking of the design.

However that is not the same as saying the production models all had a 60% fail rate.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.
You're using out of date quotes to criticise the new units and the rest is simply you amusing yourself with a little number-play.

You have not proved a thing ZippyDSM.

You have no verifiable independant data and are largely using hearsay.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
MS was sloppy and poorly built and revised the 360 if they did it right the first time they probably would have made more than Nin and the WII......
I agree with this.

You're also wrong about the 3yr warranty.
I know 2 people that have had their Xbox die from non-RROD or E74 and both successfully pursuaded Microsoft to fix them for free.

The pity is that a minimum of 3yrs is not an across the board 'right'.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 13:53

5620.8.2009 11:10

54% failure sounds about right for the first gen. Only considering Falcon and Jasper revisions I expect it'd be much lower. So far touch wood, neither our shared Gen1, or my Falcon have failed...

Also whoever added those percentages up:





Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

5720.8.2009 12:03

It's pointless to argue about the RRoD at this point, everyone knows and almost everyone I know with a Xbox 360 suffer an episode or two (including myself). The bottom line is, people still love their Xbox 360. I don't care that MS fixed it for free and gave me a lousy one month Live card for free. What I want to *itch about is that, the damn thing died in middle of my gaming session, you know, like watching a good movie, which you're interrupted and didn't get to see the ending till a month later. The MS customer service lady is very nice though, but yeah, it did wasted me 30 minutes and another 20 minutes to ship out the broken unit. Of course, another 10 minutes putting everything back again... Obviously, I never get reimbursed for that so does everyone else with the problem. To be fair, i play my PS3 and Xbox 360 equally (except the Wii, i haven't touch it in ages). Well, b/c of the 1 month waiting period, i end up playing the PS3 more now (some of my friends just buy another Xbox 360, they don't want to wait).

5820.8.2009 12:05

That would usually be my approach, buy a new unit and ebay the replacement from the RMA. Since directly RMA'ed units are often less reliable than new ones, it puts me in better stead too.

5920.8.2009 14:07

Quote:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Can you not read above?

This one alludes to it being 16% on current units

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166259
Er, no it doesn't actually.

That link was published in Feb 2008 which means the data had to have come from before then.
The Falcon SKU only appeared at the end of Sept 2007.
The Jasper appeared in Dec 2008/Jan 2009.

None of links could possibly contain any info on the Jasper and by virtue of the dates simply cannot contain much, if any, data on the Falcon.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
And this one is one of the best, even if he is hocvking a book, truth is always stranger than fiction.

http://games.venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/...e-console-woes/
Like I pointed out to you before he says in his book that the pre-production runs were showing a 60% fail rate but Microsoft pressed on without ordering a stop and a complete reworking of the design.

However that is not the same as saying the production models all had a 60% fail rate.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
New units have a fail ate of around 10-20%

Older units have a fail rate of 20-40%

Total fail rate around 30-50%, all time high 60%.
You're using out of date quotes to criticise the new units and the rest is simply you amusing yourself with a little number-play.

You have not proved a thing ZippyDSM.

You have no verifiable independant data and are largely using hearsay.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
MS was sloppy and poorly built and revised the 360 if they did it right the first time they probably would have made more than Nin and the WII......
I agree with this.

You're also wrong about the 3yr warranty.
I know 2 people that have had their Xbox die from non-RROD or E74 and both successfully pursuaded Microsoft to fix them for free.

The pity is that a minimum of 3yrs is not an across the board 'right'.
I don't have to prove anything but the 360 has a high fail rate, you can disagree with my generalizations and best guess's that I have hobbled together from those and other resources.


Now I have gotten conflicting reports about the 3yr warranty defaults to a 90 day once its repair, I could be wrong god knows mew bwains are fuzzy enough. :P

6020.8.2009 14:27

Just got the RROD yesterday after a year and a half. Now I have to go find my receipt somewhere? Damn!

6120.8.2009 14:44

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I don't have to prove anything but the 360 has a high fail rate
I am not disagreeing with that.
I actually hold the same view.
Xbox should have been much more reliable from the start and this episode has damaged the brand.

Nevertheless you cannot just throw comments and numbers around about the later SKUs when it is clear that the links you are using to do this pre-date those later SKUs.

We all know that whatever the number might be the later SKUs have, at the very least, stopped the scare-stories.

The best that anyone hoping to bash Xbox can come up with is something along the level of this 'survey'.
A self-selecting and unverifiable waste of time (and undoubtedly corrupted by fanboy nonsense).

The 3yr warranty?
I've never heard anything but good things about it.
That's the sum of my (indirect) experience.

My Falcon Xbox has never so much as frozen once.

6220.8.2009 15:14

People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective so lets do some math shall we?

Current Xbox 360 TOTAL sales are what 31-32 Million or so right? So that means the percentages (12 Million of 32 Million) is actually MORE than 33% and that does NOT include how EVERY SINGLE REVISION of the 360 has had and continues to have an an unusually high failure rate.

There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 15:15

6320.8.2009 15:44

I know one point that people use as one of 360's advantages over other consoles is it's 4 year warranty. It shouldn't need a 4 year warranty in the first place lol

6420.8.2009 15:48

Don't you mean 3 year? 0_o LoL! But you are right in your point though.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 15:56

6520.8.2009 21:33

Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective
Note that this article is dated July 2007.

Before the Falcon SKU appeared & long before Jasper.

Originally posted by Oner:
so lets do some math shall we?
Why?
Your basis for comparison is null & void.
You cannot just extrapolate the early SKU numbers as if they accurately apply to the 2 later SKUs.

The Falcon & the Jasper introduced significant changes to the hardware and the cooling systems used.

The Falcon & the Jasper are manifestly not the same and therefore a straight comparison as if they were is completely invalid.
Originally posted by Oner:
There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
Nope.
The fact is there's actually not a shred of proof here at all.

There is a Microsoft comment that all Xboxes (prior to the July 2007 date this was published) might be effected (although even here the fail rate is not 100% as the article implies......everyone says they know someone with a failed Xbox but I see a lot of early Xbox owners saying their one is still going strong).

Nobody has produced anything to say that the Falcon (from Sept 2007) and Jasper (from Dec 2008/Jan 2009) SKUs have anything even close to the original fail rates.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 20 Aug 2009 @ 21:35

6620.8.2009 21:38

Originally posted by Morreale:
It shouldn't need a 4 year warranty in the first place
Why not?

Why shouldn't all manufacturers of relativel expensive CE products stand by their products for a long time?

Nobody makes the 100% perfectly reliable item every time.

To argue against decent warranties strikes me as the height of self-harming foolishness.

6720.8.2009 22:14

Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
It shouldn't need a 4 year warranty in the first place
Why not?

Why shouldn't all manufacturers of relativel expensive CE products stand by their products for a long time?

Nobody makes the 100% perfectly reliable item every time.

To argue against decent warranties strikes me as the height of self-harming foolishness.
I completely agree. Why should MS be worried? afterall the 360 is a complete revolution in gaming and therefore should be able to last for at least that! (like my PS2). . . . right?

6820.8.2009 23:48

Originally posted by pereirab:
Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
It shouldn't need a 4 year warranty in the first place
Why not?

Why shouldn't all manufacturers of relativel expensive CE products stand by their products for a long time?

Nobody makes the 100% perfectly reliable item every time.

To argue against decent warranties strikes me as the height of self-harming foolishness.
I completely agree. Why should MS be worried? afterall the 360 is a complete revolution in gaming and therefore should be able to last for at least that! (like my PS2). . . . right?
Look, I am a happy X360 owner... but what makes you call it a complete revolution in gaming?

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

6921.8.2009 2:37
chris4160
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective so lets do some math shall we?

Current Xbox 360 TOTAL sales are what 31-32 Million or so right? So that means the percentages (12 Million of 32 Million) is actually MORE than 33% and that does NOT include how EVERY SINGLE REVISION of the 360 has had and continues to have an an unusually high failure rate.

There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
That article you linked was talking about the x clamps, which isn't even the main cause for rrod. Your "proof" is not even related to the subject, your logic that 12 million units have had rrod is complete bs and if you knew anything about the xbox 360 you would of seen that for yourself.

@ Jemborg Microsoft named the xbox 360 the xbox 360 because it is a complete revolution in gaming consoles (1 revolution = 360 degrees).

7021.8.2009 3:54

Originally posted by chris4160:
@ Jemborg Microsoft named the xbox 360 the xbox 360 because it is a complete revolution in gaming consoles (1 revolution = 360 degrees).
Ahh.

:)

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

7121.8.2009 3:55

Quote:
@ Jemborg Microsoft named the xbox 360 the xbox 360 because it is a complete revolution in gaming consoles (1 revolution = 360 degrees).
I lol'd :P

7221.8.2009 5:11

Originally posted by varnull:
Talk about a screwed up survey..
Quote:
the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' 360 consoles fail.
Still not quite accurate.. it should read "the title should read something like 54.2 percent of GameInformer readers' who responded to our survey where they didn't even have to prove they own a consele reported a failure."

Now we know happy customers very rarely have enough of a beef with something to waste their time responding to a survey on a product. Most happy customers don't even bother reading those kind or articles in the first place.. they have better things to do with their lives.. enjoying a good game perhaps ;)
Good point.

Also there is something else that bothers me about playing fast and loose with statistics, it's been indirectly raised, where is the time vector?

Over what period of time do these failures occur? One year, two years three years... since the release date?

One would be pressed to find release date PS2s going without some sort of repair.

Ok, if we state 3 years as a fair period (because that covers the warranty), that doesn't really take into account the later revisions does it?

How well are PS3s going over three years- given that they only have a single year's warranty?

Now, I won't argue that the 360s don't have a high failure rate, I myself have yet to get one... knock on wood, but the reality is analysis of statistics is a tricky thing... there is more to it than just tossing off a percentage.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

7321.8.2009 6:14

If you play 24 hour sessions of cod / halo then when done to wind down watch a movie on netflix or dvdr then you deserve to have your 360 rrod for leaving it on too long over a course of time.

I've got 3 xbox 360's---> I have an o.g. , falcon and a jasper and all run great with respect and moderation.






No time for Leap frog!!!

7421.8.2009 10:00

Originally posted by Interestx:
Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective
Note that this article is dated July 2007.

Before the Falcon SKU appeared & long before Jasper.

Originally posted by Oner:
so lets do some math shall we?
Why?
Your basis for comparison is null & void.
You cannot just extrapolate the early SKU numbers as if they accurately apply to the 2 later SKUs.

The Falcon & the Jasper introduced significant changes to the hardware and the cooling systems used.

The Falcon & the Jasper are manifestly not the same and therefore a straight comparison as if they were is completely invalid.
Originally posted by Oner:
There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
Nope.
The fact is there's actually not a shred of proof here at all.

There is a Microsoft comment that all Xboxes (prior to the July 2007 date this was published) might be effected (although even here the fail rate is not 100% as the article implies......everyone says they know someone with a failed Xbox but I see a lot of early Xbox owners saying their one is still going strong).

Nobody has produced anything to say that the Falcon (from Sept 2007) and Jasper (from Dec 2008/Jan 2009) SKUs have anything even close to the original fail rates.

Originally posted by chris4160:
Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective so lets do some math shall we?

Current Xbox 360 TOTAL sales are what 31-32 Million or so right? So that means the percentages (12 Million of 32 Million) is actually MORE than 33% and that does NOT include how EVERY SINGLE REVISION of the 360 has had and continues to have an an unusually high failure rate.

There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
That article you linked was talking about the x clamps, which isn't even the main cause for rrod. Your "proof" is not even related to the subject, your logic that 12 million units have had rrod is complete bs and if you knew anything about the xbox 360 you would of seen that for yourself.

@ Jemborg Microsoft named the xbox 360 the xbox 360 because it is a complete revolution in gaming consoles (1 revolution = 360 degrees).

I knew this was going to happen...look I am not going to directly break down every reply to what I said but will clarify (as usual) the point I meant overall.

As I said, MS themselves admitted that EVERY SINGLE 360 sold in the first 19 months (about 12 Million) where defective (operative word & reading comprehension is key here). Understand that? Right? Okay...good. So back to the numbers ~ when you do the math on just that alone it is more than a third of every 360 EVER sold are defective (operative word here) NOT that ALL 12 Million have RLOD/RROD and have failed but fall under that they are extremely highly prone to be DEFECTIVE ~ Hence the comment I made of 33%+ is going off of that...Got it? Okay?

Is that a bit clearer to re-iterate? Probably not but I will continue...I glanced over a comment of later revisions falcons etc yada yada yada. It does not matter. There has NEVER been a revision of the 360 that is NOT prone (there goes another operative word again) to failure. YES they might have a lower rate but it is still RAMPANT, so it doesn't matter because the rates of the TOTAL SOLD (not just ones you want to pick and choose) are absolutely horrible.

So when you do the estimates (because MS will never actually release how many have and will be affected) you can REASONABLY say that a third of ALL 360's EVER sold could have RLOD/RROD and that the number can be much much higher ultimately.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 10:09

7521.8.2009 10:11
varnull
Inactive

And we do all know that manufacturers of optical pickups will only give users a guarantee of 12 months on a laser... I see a lot of failed lasers in 360's.. I will fix those but only if there are no other problems. I only guarantee the laser for 30 days (same deal I get from the supplier) .. if the console goes rrod 3 days later then hey.. Like I told them.. shoulda sent it back to M$. It's why I don't flash them.

Just an observation... every single rrod box I have seen has been opened and tampered with. Haven't seen an unopened one fail like this... yet.. theres always a first time I guess.

I feel M$ were very generous with a 3 year warranty.. very generous.. no other electronics manufacturer does that and usually just laughs at you when you try to get your 60" plasma repaired within the first 12 months... they want you to pay shipping... and parts.. and labout.. and handling.. what do you get for your warranty ticket?.. oh yeah.. somebody in a callcenter to moan at while you decide to buy a different one next time.. LOL

7621.8.2009 12:36

Originally posted by Oner:
There has NEVER been a revision of the 360 that is NOT prone (there goes another operative word again) to failure.
You don't know that.
I assume that we all accept that nobody makes a 100% perfect product everytime so you must be implying with this comment that the later revisons are iunordinately prone to failure too.

Like I said, you don't know that and you do not have any credible evidence for saying so.

Originally posted by Oner:
YES they might have a lower rate but it is still RAMPANT
Well if that is really what you want to 'believe' then go ahead and provide some verifiable proof for the basis of that belief; if you want that statement to appear as anything other than pure opinion.

You can't.
There is none.

Originally posted by Oner:
you can REASONABLY say that a third of ALL 360's EVER sold could have RLOD/RROD and that the number can be much much higher ultimately.
This is pure spin, word-play and quibbling.
Why lump together an Xbox SKU sold years ago with the very different and more reliable SKU now on sale?

If you really want to be reasonable about this then you can also much more reasonably say that a diminishing % of Xboxes are prone to failure (seeing as the real problem lay with the early SKU) and that the SKUs on sale since Sept/Oct 2007 are far more reliable.

This can also much more reasonably be be said to have improved even further by the introduction of the lower power consuming, cooler running current 65nm CPU & GPU Jasper in Dec 2008/Jan 2009.

In fact they are now so much more reliable that even all the anecdotal stories of game shops seeing a stack of returns have all dried up.

7721.8.2009 12:43
varnull
Inactive

M$ do themselves with the way they release numbers either.. how many of this 33% (so called) were refurbs which failed again and got counted again?

Experienced electronics engineers call them "the bouncer" .. that lemon that turns up almost like clockwork every few weeks or months with yet another totally unrelated fault (anybody remember the GEC 2030 chassis?)

Don't be fooled by figures.. a 33% failure rate would have led to a complete product recall.. no business can stand that kind of loss.. not even M$.. the usual rate of fail which triggers a product "withold from sale while investigated" notice is 3% ..

7821.8.2009 12:59

Depends on the time period. 33% failed within 1-2 months is certainly recall-worthy, but 33% in warranty period sounds if anything, a little on the low side.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

7921.8.2009 13:08
varnull
Inactive

Within a 3 year warranty period it is very low.. I still wonder how many have actually failed.. individual machines... not bouncers.. we all know a refurb is suspect.. Still see the same old tired rrod first release ones circulating ebay.. going round and round... still with the tagline "probably an easy fix" .. hahahaha

A breakdown of the actual faults by type would be probably revealing... how many were sent back because a controller port was broken by the kids.. or the dvd tray got snapped off or pulled out or the psu connector got trodden on.... etc etc. People are just assuming every return was rrod.. not the case.. not possibly the case at all. lasers fail.. these cheap dvd drives fail (more often seen by me than rrod) and the power bricks fail.. not to mention power surge damage.

I'm not defending this hunk of junk in any way. If they were more reliable I would be making money repairing and flashing them.. the fact I don't should tell people what I think of them from a financial risk standpoint as a small independent repairer.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 13:11

8021.8.2009 13:31

Originally posted by varnull:
Within a 3 year warranty period it is very low.. I still wonder how many have actually failed.. individual machines... not bouncers.. we all know a refurb is suspect.. Still see the same old tired rrod first release ones circulating ebay.. going round and round... still with the tagline "probably an easy fix" .. hahahaha

A breakdown of the actual faults by type would be probably revealing... how many were sent back because a controller port was broken by the kids.. or the dvd tray got snapped off or pulled out or the psu connector got trodden on.... etc etc. People are just assuming every return was rrod.. not the case.. not possibly the case at all. lasers fail.. these cheap dvd drives fail (more often seen by me than rrod) and the power bricks fail.. not to mention power surge damage.

I'm not defending this hunk of junk in any way. If they were more reliable I would be making money repairing and flashing them.. the fact I don't should tell people what I think of them from a financial risk standpoint as a small independent repairer.
My own experience with the console repair biz demonstrates there is a lot of weight to this "bouncer" phenomena with the X360. Seems to be about a half/half chance that you can get a RROD fixed for a decent length of time, say, a few months. Part of the problem comes down to the rubbish solder they used when stamping the chips onto the boards.



Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

8121.8.2009 15:16

Originally posted by Interestx:
Originally posted by Oner:
There has NEVER been a revision of the 360 that is NOT prone (there goes another operative word again) to failure.
You don't know that.
I assume that we all accept that nobody makes a 100% perfect product everytime so you must be implying with this comment that the later revisons are iunordinately prone to failure too.

Like I said, you don't know that and you do not have any credible evidence for saying so.

Originally posted by Oner:
YES they might have a lower rate but it is still RAMPANT
Well if that is really what you want to 'believe' then go ahead and provide some verifiable proof for the basis of that belief; if you want that statement to appear as anything other than pure opinion.

You can't.
There is none.

Originally posted by Oner:
you can REASONABLY say that a third of ALL 360's EVER sold could have RLOD/RROD and that the number can be much much higher ultimately.
This is pure spin, word-play and quibbling.
Why lump together an Xbox SKU sold years ago with the very different and more reliable SKU now on sale?

If you really want to be reasonable about this then you can also much more reasonably say that a diminishing % of Xboxes are prone to failure (seeing as the real problem lay with the early SKU) and that the SKUs on sale since Sept/Oct 2007 are far more reliable.

This can also much more reasonably be be said to have improved even further by the introduction of the lower power consuming, cooler running current 65nm CPU & GPU Jasper in Dec 2008/Jan 2009.

In fact they are now so much more reliable that even all the anecdotal stories of game shops seeing a stack of returns have all dried up.
I don't need to provide any other proof. I already did, and right from the horses mouth.....Look you can try and say what you will about this or that but the FACT remains MS admitted to almost 12 Million 360 being defective (33+% not including newer ones) and that every revision has NOT fixed the problem...lessened it yes, but nothing more than that, and thus ALL 360's STILL have the problem. Plain & Simple. That is my point (yet again).
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 15:19

8221.8.2009 15:30

Meh, whatever, I still enjoy playing the thing. Regardless if they cr@p themselves and die occasionally.

They're so cheap nowadays.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

8321.8.2009 16:57

Quote:
Despite all those numbers however, only 3.8 percent of 360 owners said they would never buy another 360 console due to the hardware failure or the poor service.
This is only because of their loyalty to the brand name not because its good or not.

8421.8.2009 17:31

Or because all the games they have are designed for it...




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

8521.8.2009 18:12

Originally posted by sammorris:
Or because all the games they have are designed for it...
Only because it is easier and cheaper to design for since it brings nothing new to this generation from the last except a better graphics card and whatnot. Basically upgrading an old computer, nothing crazy lol
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 18:14

8621.8.2009 19:24

Originally posted by JOHNSTARR:
If you play 24 hour sessions of cod / halo then when done to wind down watch a movie on netflix or dvdr then you deserve to have your 360 rrod for leaving it on too long over a course of time.

I've got 3 xbox 360's---> I have an o.g. , falcon and a jasper and all run great with respect and moderation.
Funny, over a 3 day period I played a full day of COD on my PS3, watched movies both BD and saved to the HDD, downloaded games from the PS Store, Video chated, played music from the HDD during a small party at my house, after the party we watched a few episodes of Entourage from the HDD, then I played 24 hours straight of Ghostbusters, and Uncharted. 3 days straight and my PS3 ran fine. And still does, i think it's amusing to hear you defend the 360 as running great....as long as you don't run them too long.
Irony is all about you

8721.8.2009 19:35

Several 16 hour game stints have never done our 1st gen 360 any harm.

8821.8.2009 20:17

Quote:
Originally posted by JOHNSTARR:
If you play 24 hour sessions of cod / halo then when done to wind down watch a movie on netflix or dvdr then you deserve to have your 360 rrod for leaving it on too long over a course of time.

I've got 3 xbox 360's---> I have an o.g. , falcon and a jasper and all run great with respect and moderation.
Funny, over a 3 day period I played a full day of COD on my PS3, watched movies both BD and saved to the HDD, downloaded games from the PS Store, Video chated, played music from the HDD during a small party at my house, after the party we watched a few episodes of Entourage from the HDD, then I played 24 hours straight of Ghostbusters, and Uncharted. 3 days straight and my PS3 ran fine. And still does, i think it's amusing to hear you defend the 360 as running great....as long as you don't run them too long.
Irony is all about you
if im not mistaken Sony wasn't smacked in the face with a RoHS compliance Either.

with all due respect, there is a thing called the outside its a mysterious place with Tree's UV rays and vitamin D.

8921.8.2009 21:02

Originally posted by sammorris:
Or because all the games they have are designed for it...
Zing!

Originally posted by Morreale:
Only because it is easier and cheaper to design for since it brings nothing new to this generation from the last except a better graphics card and whatnot. Basically upgrading an old computer, nothing crazy lol
I really fail to see what's wrong with "easier and cheaper to design for", a certain games publisher would agree with me. C'mon, as far as things have turned out, they're about on par.

Apart from the fact you seem to know little about the X360s architecture by regurgitating that old lie- your argument falls flat because there is no evidence of these fantastic games that should therefore exist if the PS3 was that uber-awesome. I mean where are they? I'm still waiting...

I suppose it's possible that the 360 is taking focus away from the PS3. In a perfect world the Sony would have a monopoly and all developer's energies would be devoted to the PS3, forcing them by sheer dint of it's weirdness and idiosyncratic difficulty to be more creative and usher in an incredible new era of gaming blah blah blah... Well, dream on.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 21:04

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

9021.8.2009 21:08

Originally posted by Oner:
I don't need to provide any other proof.
You have not provided the slightest bit of proof regarding the console SKUs sold after July 2007 (the date of the link, you call it 'proof', you submitted here).

You're as entitled to your opinion as anyone, fine, of course that's perfectly OK & normal enough.

But if you're going to ignore the fact that the Xbox changed significantly twice since that report/comment you gave and then go on to continue to make claims like the later SKU have a "rampant" "problem" then it's only reasonable to ask that you back that up with some sort of verifiable proof.

Or at least admit that it is merely your own opinion.

Sorry but your opinion is all I'm seeing here.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 21:09

9121.8.2009 21:24

Quote:
Originally posted by Oner:
I don't need to provide any other proof.
You have not provided the slightest bit of proof regarding the console SKUs sold after July 2007 (the date of the link, you call it 'proof', you submitted here).

You're as entitled to your opinion as anyone, fine, of course that's perfectly OK & normal enough.

But if you're going to ignore the fact that the Xbox changed significantly twice since that report/comment you gave and then go on to continue to make claims like the later SKU have a "rampant" "problem" then it's only reasonable to ask that you back that up with some sort of verifiable proof.

Or at least admit that it is merely your own opinion.

Sorry but your opinion is all I'm seeing here.
Just because there are no official numbers doesn't mean you have to be in denial. the only thing that should matter is the fact that the xbox 360 is and will be the highest failing console in history.

9221.8.2009 21:34
chris4160
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by Interestx:
Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective
Note that this article is dated July 2007.

Before the Falcon SKU appeared & long before Jasper.

Originally posted by Oner:
so lets do some math shall we?
Why?
Your basis for comparison is null & void.
You cannot just extrapolate the early SKU numbers as if they accurately apply to the 2 later SKUs.

The Falcon & the Jasper introduced significant changes to the hardware and the cooling systems used.

The Falcon & the Jasper are manifestly not the same and therefore a straight comparison as if they were is completely invalid.
Originally posted by Oner:
There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
Nope.
The fact is there's actually not a shred of proof here at all.

There is a Microsoft comment that all Xboxes (prior to the July 2007 date this was published) might be effected (although even here the fail rate is not 100% as the article implies......everyone says they know someone with a failed Xbox but I see a lot of early Xbox owners saying their one is still going strong).

Nobody has produced anything to say that the Falcon (from Sept 2007) and Jasper (from Dec 2008/Jan 2009) SKUs have anything even close to the original fail rates.

Originally posted by chris4160:
Originally posted by Oner:
People want PROOF of how the 360's fail rate is at least 33%, well that's easy...how is Microsoft themselves admitting that 12 MILLION 360's are defective so lets do some math shall we?

Current Xbox 360 TOTAL sales are what 31-32 Million or so right? So that means the percentages (12 Million of 32 Million) is actually MORE than 33% and that does NOT include how EVERY SINGLE REVISION of the 360 has had and continues to have an an unusually high failure rate.

There you go. Proof. With VERIFIABLE factual information...
That article you linked was talking about the x clamps, which isn't even the main cause for rrod. Your "proof" is not even related to the subject, your logic that 12 million units have had rrod is complete bs and if you knew anything about the xbox 360 you would of seen that for yourself.

@ Jemborg Microsoft named the xbox 360 the xbox 360 because it is a complete revolution in gaming consoles (1 revolution = 360 degrees).

I knew this was going to happen...look I am not going to directly break down every reply to what I said but will clarify (as usual) the point I meant overall.

As I said, MS themselves admitted that EVERY SINGLE 360 sold in the first 19 months (about 12 Million) where defective (operative word & reading comprehension is key here). Understand that? Right? Okay...good. So back to the numbers ~ when you do the math on just that alone it is more than a third of every 360 EVER sold are defective (operative word here) NOT that ALL 12 Million have RLOD/RROD and have failed but fall under that they are extremely highly prone to be DEFECTIVE ~ Hence the comment I made of 33%+ is going off of that...Got it? Okay?

Is that a bit clearer to re-iterate? Probably not but I will continue...I glanced over a comment of later revisions falcons etc yada yada yada. It does not matter. There has NEVER been a revision of the 360 that is NOT prone (there goes another operative word again) to failure. YES they might have a lower rate but it is still RAMPANT, so it doesn't matter because the rates of the TOTAL SOLD (not just ones you want to pick and choose) are absolutely horrible.

So when you do the estimates (because MS will never actually release how many have and will be affected) you can REASONABLY say that a third of ALL 360's EVER sold could have RLOD/RROD and that the number can be much much higher ultimately.
I don't understand why you don't understand this. The article you linked was referring to the x clamps. Microsoft announced that they were a design flaw years ago. But that does not mean that all of the xbox 360's have had rrod. All xbox 360's still have the same x clamps in them, but there is a significantly decrease in failures in the newer models, so that says that the x clamps are not the main problem. The main cause for failure is the cheap lead free solder they used.

So, 12 million units are not defective, they are prone to being defective, but since all units use the x clamps, they could all possibly be defective... but the failure rates in the motherboard revisions are a lot lower than the release date consoles. Saying that 33% of xbox 360's are defective because of the x clamps is complete bs, 100% of them are possibly defective because of the x clamps, but not 100% have had rrod...

9321.8.2009 21:42

X clamp causes the mainboard to warp. popping off the solder joints on the Cpu.

some of the new xbox's do indeed lack the xclamp.

9421.8.2009 22:17

Originally posted by DXR88:
the fact that the xbox 360 is and will be the highest failing console in history.
*gasp* in ALL of history DXR88 :P

I would have thought they way things were going the next gen will be even worse lol.

You are both right, it is a combination of factors, including solder and warping. Sometimes the warping is so bad it's quite permanent. In other cases it's not. The cheap brittle lead-free solder does not help- especially in the case of repairs (where the X clamps have been removed) because it will not remelt well and rejoin effectively.

A word of caution, if one chooses to add extra fan ventilation to their 360 be advised to use an independent power supply. If you don't you're likely to cause the very thing you're trying to avoid.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 Aug 2009 @ 22:17

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

9522.8.2009 7:45

Originally posted by DXR88:
Just because there are no official numbers doesn't mean you have to be in denial.
I'm not "in denial" about anything.
I am well aware that the 1st Xbox SKUs had a problem.
I have not denied that.

I am (correctly) pointing out that using what little info about the reality of the 1st SKU to claim that the 2 latest SKUs are inordinately prone to failure (when there is no credible data for making such a claim) is not only illogical and beneath this discussion but also this quality info site.

The use of a Microsoft comment (made before 1 of the later SKUs appeared and long before the most recent SKU) to pretend that this amounts to verifiable evidence against the reliability record of those SKUs is at best misguided and at worst dishonest.

I thought we were supposed to be for accuracy & truth?

Originally posted by DXR88:
the only thing that should matter is the fact that the xbox 360 is and will be the highest failing console in history.
.....and whatever happened to being accurate and reasonable with the facts?

You may well be right that the original Xbox SKU was very bad, but,
you cannot logically just blithly claim that the significantly changed later variants are the same or close to the same.
Especially when that claim is made entirely 'evidence free'.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2009 @ 7:47

9622.8.2009 12:07

Quote:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Just because there are no official numbers doesn't mean you have to be in denial.
I'm not "in denial" about anything.
I am well aware that the 1st Xbox SKUs had a problem.
I have not denied that.

I am (correctly) pointing out that using what little info about the reality of the 1st SKU to claim that the 2 latest SKUs are inordinately prone to failure (when there is no credible data for making such a claim) is not only illogical and beneath this discussion but also this quality info site.

The use of a Microsoft comment (made before 1 of the later SKUs appeared and long before the most recent SKU) to pretend that this amounts to verifiable evidence against the reliability record of those SKUs is at best misguided and at worst dishonest.

I thought we were supposed to be for accuracy & truth?

Originally posted by DXR88:
the only thing that should matter is the fact that the xbox 360 is and will be the highest failing console in history.
.....and whatever happened to being accurate and reasonable with the facts?

You may well be right that the original Xbox SKU was very bad, but,
you cannot logically just blithly claim that the significantly changed later variants are the same or close to the same.
Especially when that claim is made entirely 'evidence free'.
the xbox 360 is and will by the highest failing console in history.

being a gamer from the NES days i don't need fabricated useless numbers i know it is. you keep telling yourself its not, and when xbox 720 rolls around and all support is abruptly ended like it was for the xbox.

you can say dame that asshole was right.

9722.8.2009 13:26

Originally posted by DXR88:
the xbox 360 is and will by the highest failing console in history.
I see this as nothing less than the sort of determined word-play the fanboy element use.

Xbox may have originally have had problems but they are long over now, why is it so important for you to pretend otherwise?

Looking at their sales numbers nobody else is that bothered.

Originally posted by DXR88:
being a gamer from the NES days i don't need fabricated useless numbers i know it is.
Ah, I see, so any old rumour and 'viral' BS will do, is that it?

Originally posted by DXR88:
you keep telling yourself its not
I don't have to tell myself a thing.
I just look around at the rather silly straws those who are trying to keep this stuff alive clutch at when asked to prove their point.

It's ok, you can 'believe' what you like, that's you right.
Just don't pretend it's based on anything more than personal prejudice and rumour, it sure as hell has nothing to do with any actual credible independant verifiable proof.

Originally posted by DXR88:
and when xbox 720 rolls around and all support is abruptly ended like it was for the xbox.
Firstly, what has this to do with anything?

Secondly don't you know why the first Xbox was dropped so abruptly?

The problem was Microsoft did not own and hold all the rights to a lot of the hardware used in the first Xbox.
When they had their almighty row with Nvidia (who then, surprise surprise, went into the PS3 project with Sony) they were stuck and had nowhere to go with the project.
Nvidia wanted to stop making the (by then aging) GPU in the first Xbox and because Microsoft did not hold all the necessary rights they were left high and dry.

Why do you think the first Xbox saw none of the usual manufacturing upgrades and improvements throughout it's life?

It was because of the rights situation - a mistake they learned from and have not repeated with Xbox 360 btw.

Originally posted by DXR88:
you can say dame that asshole was right.
Right about what?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2009 @ 13:28

9822.8.2009 20:02

you go find your numbers,ill keep playing my xbox.

let me know when you do, beside i'm still waiting for some facts and proof that the xbox360 is not the highest failing console ever invented.

so whats your excuse?

9922.8.2009 22:00

Originally posted by DXR88:
you go find your numbers
Er, I don't have to find anything, I'm not the one trying to make exaggerated claims about the thing.

I can spot evidence-free nonsense when I see it and I called it for what it was here.

Originally posted by DXR88:
ill keep playing my xbox.
Just like I do then, without so much as a hiccup.

Originally posted by DXR88:
i'm still waiting for some facts and proof that the xbox360 is not the highest failing console ever invented.

so whats your excuse?
Er, that's at best illogical and at worst typical trolling behaviour.
You can't actually 'prove' a negative.

I don't have to excuse myself from anything as I was not the one making critical claims with no relevant facts to back my claims up, thanks. :P
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2009 @ 22:00

10022.8.2009 23:09

Quote:
You can't actually 'prove' a negative.
since when? the court system has been built around proving a negative.

Quote:
I don't have to excuse myself from anything as I was not the one making critical claims with no relevant facts to back my claims up, thanks.
yeah you did, you claimed the xbox360 does not have a high rate of failure.

Prove it.

10122.8.2009 23:17
chris4160
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
You can't actually 'prove' a negative.
since when? the court system has been built around proving a negative.

Quote:
I don't have to excuse myself from anything as I was not the one making critical claims with no relevant facts to back my claims up, thanks.
yeah you did, you claimed the xbox360 does not have a high rate of failure.

Prove it.
Xbox 360 doesn't have a high rate of failure anymore. It's all in the past, ps3 fanboys still say that it does just so they can devert attention from the sub-par console.

Originally posted by DXR88:
the xbox 360 is and will by the highest failing console in history.
Prove it.

Are you some sort of fortune teller than can predict the future of gaming consoles or something??? Or are you just a ps3 fanboy that is angry because he made the wrong decision...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2009 @ 23:20

10222.8.2009 23:31

This is beginning to become a game. Everyone making accusations of one another... and BS'ing their way along...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Aug 2009 @ 23:32


10323.8.2009 0:10

Quote:
Are you some sort of fortune teller than can predict the future of gaming consoles or something??? Or are you just a ps3 fanboy that is angry because he made the wrong decision...
Yes im so saddened that i wasted $600 dollars on a over hyped blue ray player that to this day has no where near the library of games the xbox360 has. im so sad and angry that you guys get to have all the fun.

if only you knew :D
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2009 @ 0:11

10423.8.2009 0:11

Originally posted by rvinkebob:
This is beginning to become a game. Everyone making accusations of one another... and BS'ing their way along...
I like games.

10523.8.2009 13:21

Originally posted by DXR88:
you claimed the xbox360 does not have a high rate of failure.

Prove it.
I'll take up that challenge the day you post

Independant verifiable proof that the PS3 and its YLOD isn't effecting huge and increasing numbers of PS3 owners.

You'll be lucky to get any sort of admission out of Sony (despite the PS2 class action they lost - something which has not happened with Xbox - they never admitted any numbers for PS2 fail-rates)

Originally posted by DXR88:
im so saddened that i wasted $600 dollars on a over hyped blue ray player
My sympathies, wtf were you thinking of?
A game console as you movie player!?

Originally posted by DXR88:
that to this day has no where near the library of games the xbox360 has.
Yeah well that part is absolutely true.
Less games and less games with a high meritocratioc score.

Never a truer word spoken in jext. eh? :P

10623.8.2009 13:56

Interestx and DXR88, why the hell are you guys bickering? rofl

You both like the X360, why don't you just agree to disagree on this really quite minor matter?

The truth probably sits somewhere in-between.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 23 Aug 2009 @ 13:58

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

10723.8.2009 17:13

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Interestx and DXR88, why the hell are you guys bickering? rofl

You both like the X360, why don't you just agree to disagree on this really quite minor matter?

The truth probably sits somewhere in-between.
i forgot why i was bickering.

10824.8.2009 6:32
chris4160
Inactive

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Interestx and DXR88, why the hell are you guys bickering? rofl

You both like the X360, why don't you just agree to disagree on this really quite minor matter?

The truth probably sits somewhere in-between.
lol, i thought DXR88 was a ps3 fanboy, my apologies for including you as one of them.

10930.9.2010 19:12

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Interestx and DXR88, why the hell are you guys bickering? rofl

You both like the X360, why don't you just agree to disagree on this really quite minor matter?

The truth probably sits somewhere in-between.
The only truth about the 360 is shoty iffy wonky design and or design implementation, everything else is subjective :P.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

11030.9.2010 19:19

Old post is old :P




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

1111.10.2010 1:04

Originally posted by sammorris:
Old post is old :P
Nay old post is ancient, the poor aD server had to dig this one out of the secondary backup systems.

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1121.10.2010 1:39

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Interestx and DXR88, why the hell are you guys bickering? rofl

You both like the X360, why don't you just agree to disagree on this really quite minor matter?

The truth probably sits somewhere in-between.
The only truth about the 360 is shoty iffy wonky design and or design implementation, everything else is subjective :P.
Old thread.... You've got too much time on your hands zip ~ go out and get some sunshine.

Yet I'll agree, the heaps of fun I'm having playing the old NFS:MW on my old Falcon X360 which has never broken down is entirely subjective.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1131.10.2010 9:09

Not only does my Falcon console still work (which I would expect), though it isn't used that often, our first generation console still does too, and that saw a lot of use. Guess we got pretty lucky, or maybe it's just because we paid attention to where the console was placed for cooling reasons :P




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

1141.10.2010 14:46

Originally posted by sammorris:
Not only does my Falcon console still work (which I would expect), though it isn't used that often, our first generation console still does too, and that saw a lot of use. Guess we got pretty lucky, or maybe it's just because we paid attention to where the console was placed for cooling reasons :P
I'll admit to a certain amount of luck. So apart from that, it's not a bad machine. Gaming on it is a solid experience. I'd recommend always playing from the hard drive and using 720p if your telly scales up well.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1151.10.2010 15:08

i think maybe zippys brain has 54.2% rate of failure.


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1161.10.2010 16:01

The original console is for game backups. The Falcon is for current games. Falcon has HDMI on it for 1080p, so that's what normally gets used.




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

1172.10.2010 5:04

Originally posted by sammorris:
The original console is for game backups. The Falcon is for current games. Falcon has HDMI on it for 1080p, so that's what normally gets used.
The max res of X360 games is 720p. When I was playing Resident Evil 5 on the X360 - I noticed that there was image "tearing" in the rendered scenes (which is done in real time). When I switched from 1080p to 720p the tearing disappeared! Try as hard as I could I could not tell any difference between the different resolutions selected. I use a 50" Panasonic plasma which scales up well by itself. I have since tried this on a mate's projector and other setups with the same results. Try it you'll see for yourself.

What's the point of taxing the scalar chip (thereby producing more heat) more than you have to?

Regards.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1182.10.2010 8:52

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by sammorris:
The original console is for game backups. The Falcon is for current games. Falcon has HDMI on it for 1080p, so that's what normally gets used.
The max res of X360 games is 720p. When I was playing Resident Evil 5 on the X360 - I noticed that there was image "tearing" in the rendered scenes (which is done in real time). When I switched from 1080p to 720p the tearing disappeared! Try as hard as I could I could not tell any difference between the different resolutions selected. I use a 50" Panasonic plasma which scales up well by itself. I have since tried this on a mate's projector and other setups with the same results. Try it you'll see for yourself.

What's the point of taxing the scalar chip (thereby producing more heat) more than you have to?

Regards.
it depends on the game really.Ive got my console setup to my monitor at 1440x900 so i pretty much tax the scalar chip every time i boot.

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1192.10.2010 12:11

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by sammorris:
The original console is for game backups. The Falcon is for current games. Falcon has HDMI on it for 1080p, so that's what normally gets used.
The max res of X360 games is 720p. When I was playing Resident Evil 5 on the X360 - I noticed that there was image "tearing" in the rendered scenes (which is done in real time). When I switched from 1080p to 720p the tearing disappeared! Try as hard as I could I could not tell any difference between the different resolutions selected. I use a 50" Panasonic plasma which scales up well by itself. I have since tried this on a mate's projector and other setups with the same results. Try it you'll see for yourself.

What's the point of taxing the scalar chip (thereby producing more heat) more than you have to?

Regards.
it depends on the game really.Ive got my console setup to my monitor at 1440x900 so i pretty much tax the scalar chip every time i boot.
If my monitor did not scale up well then I would employ it. But since the games' res is never any higher than 720p....?

And if the game performs better with it just set to 720p...?

All I can say is try it for yourself... if you think there is an improvement setting it higher than 720p, then go for it.


-------------------------------------------------------------
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Oct 2010 @ 12:12

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1202.10.2010 15:45

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by sammorris:
The original console is for game backups. The Falcon is for current games. Falcon has HDMI on it for 1080p, so that's what normally gets used.
The max res of X360 games is 720p. When I was playing Resident Evil 5 on the X360 - I noticed that there was image "tearing" in the rendered scenes (which is done in real time). When I switched from 1080p to 720p the tearing disappeared! Try as hard as I could I could not tell any difference between the different resolutions selected. I use a 50" Panasonic plasma which scales up well by itself. I have since tried this on a mate's projector and other setups with the same results. Try it you'll see for yourself.

What's the point of taxing the scalar chip (thereby producing more heat) more than you have to?

Regards.
it depends on the game really.Ive got my console setup to my monitor at 1440x900 so i pretty much tax the scalar chip every time i boot.
If my monitor did not scale up well then I would employ it. But since the games' res is never any higher than 720p....?

And if the game performs better with it just set to 720p...?

All I can say is try it for yourself... if you think there is an improvement setting it higher than 720p, then go for it.
x900 is 900p, and it looks dame good...you may be right about the texture sizes, though like i said it depends on the game I've seen early games on the 360 that couldn't have been any more than 480p



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1213.10.2010 2:15

If it was genuine 900p then I'm sure it would look "dame" good.

But yes, even the Modern Warfare games on the X360 are not in 720p... around 600 and something.

Microsoft removed the restriction that games had to be 720p since the first Modern Warfare. But they are still never over 720p.


---------------------------------------------------------

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Oct 2010 @ 2:22

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1223.10.2010 9:27

Yeah the vast majority of 360 games are still 1280x720 max (not sure about all of them). A fair few are 1024x640, as that was the resolution PS3 games were limited to (not sure if they still are)




Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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