French Parliament approves 'three strikes law'

It seems there are 258 fools in the french parliament. Makes it pretty clear cut who should be reelected and who shouldn't. Whats the appeal system like under the french government? If its just some sort of re-vote they're still fubar as the votes were overwhelmingly in favor.

I'm guessing nobody told the french that 'three strikes' comes from baseball, the American past time.

Anyways, I don't think these "Three Strikes" piracy type laws can work. I mean, yes whenever you try to get internet service at your home, the company that provides it will have to look up in the national database to see if you've been banned or not. But there's so many free public wifi's out there.

I don't know how it works in france, but here in the usa, what would they do? Give you a probation officer that randomly calls you to make sure you're not at the library or coffee shop using the internet?

Ok, 1,000 users banned per day. It's only gonna be 178 more years till france is internet free.

Still no mention of how they will handle internet piracy (stealing wifi)...will the victim be fined $4000 and have their internet disconnected? Maybe they will be fined $440,000...since it is not their kids downloading?

"I'm guessing nobody told the french that 'three strikes' comes from baseball, the American past time."

I always thought it was the american pass time...because of how incredibly boaring it is to watch sober.

BTW...no laws actualy work...they are just scare tactics. Murder is illigal everywhere...yet people get murdered. The threat of capture and punishment/execution does prevent some murders, but not all. Heroin is illigal in 99% of the world...yet there is enough of it around that people can become hopelessly addicted. Piracy is illigal, yet Microsoft is still around.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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Still no mention of how they will handle internet piracy (stealing wifi)...will the victim be fined $4000 and have their internet disconnected? Maybe they will be fined $440,000...since it is not their kids downloading?

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And therein lies one of the many problems, these laws CANNOT be enforced, by any stretch.

another reason i'll be voting no on lisbon. if we give these assholes "brussels" more power over our laws it will happen us here in ireland as well. and everyone thinks they live in a democracy lol it's a dictatorship they are really living in.

the three strike rule in the us don't work because of people able to exploit it and get away with it i'm sure in France they find ways
to exploit the french three strike system

What gets me is this, the european parliament voted against this 3 strikes nonsense. So how do countries within the EU get away with opposing the ruling? I thought you are in the EU and its rules or your are not. So what do you do when your receive this disconnection and a fine. Ah suppose go to the european court and claim your rights are being violated.
But where there is a will theres a way, seedboxes and vpn's will be bought up by the dozen and I read over at torrentfreak that some people plan to hack government establishments and large companies and politicians networks and upload content from there. Whether that will stand up in court or not is a different story.

well done now everyone will simply use vpn services be completely untraceable and void their ruling. congrats on wasting time and money.

Originally posted by bomber991:

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I'm guessing nobody told the french that 'three strikes' comes from baseball, the American past time.

Well, I'm in the USA and my Internet provider, Mediacom cut off my internet for three days and stated that my next violation will result in a permanent loss of internet. I have internet, tv and phone through them yet they cut off only the internet with the threat of permanent loss next offense. I should note that my son downloaded one movie to preview it before ordering from amazon and after three months they came down with that action. I objected very vocally but they know that they are the only game in town, we have no other high speed available to us and what with them providing phone I would need to cancel and go with ATT in order to get dial up. So we already have the three strikes law here and its not just for baseball. mediacom insists that they sent me a warning letter (not registered mail I might add) when the supposed first offense was committed and on checking their provided dates there was no one home (son in college) that would have downloaded anything.. We do use wep2 security on our wireless. So fair or unfair they control my internet that I pay dearly for....

Originally posted by zenno:

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another reason i'll be voting no on lisbon. if we give these assholes "brussels" more power over our laws it will happen us here in ireland as well. and everyone thinks they live in a democracy lol it's a dictatorship they are really living in.

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You mean those assholes whom without Ireland would have never emerged from what it was? Tell me what exactly Lisbon has to do with a three strikes policy approved by a national French parliament? Though I'm sure I'll soon see yet another bullshit claim about Lisbon that has something to do with file-sharing in the closing days... I guess it's not as bad as the Abortion or Euthanasia claims that Taliban Ireland err... COIR... are peddling.....

I just love to stack it up...

In Favour
------------

Fianna Fail
Green Party
Fine Gael
Labour
The Services, Industrial, Professional and Technical Union (SIPTU)
Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU)
Irish Farmers Association
Intel Corporation
Ryanair
etc.

In Opposition
-------------

Sinn Fein
Socialists
COIR
Libertas (or is it Rivada Networks?)
UK Independence Party (UKIP --> yes, UKIP is canvassing in Ireland, see those EU bulldozer bullshit leaflets? That was UKIP!)


Not to mention that the referendum commission - the only truly unbiased player in this thing - has approved the legal guarantees as "legal".

Here is my favorite piece from the Anti-lisbon halls --> http://i.afterdawn.com/storage/pictures/...y_crackpots.jpg

That's what it really comes down to, reality vs. conspiracy --- on the issues where it doesn't such as voting power, I'm dead surprised that someone would claim that Germany having more influence with 80,000,000 people than Ireland with 4,000,000 is undemocratic, and we've secured a commissioner that we would have lost (2+2 is not equal to 5 declan..) and we have VETO on tax and other issues and legally binding (referendum commission's words, not mine) guarantees for other major concerns. This is starting to feel like the NICE treaty now... where Sinn Fein and other opponents cried foul over very very familiar things, such as militarization, and legal guarantees were sought and retrieved... it passed and well.. I don't see Soviet-style tanks outside my house and no old people are getting euthanized either....

As for the issue that it is a second vote... I have heard people saying "Why should I have to vote again when we said NO?" and saying its undemocratic.... and to a degree, that feels right... however there is something to take into account. Lisbon has nothing to do with abortion, nothing to do with making Ireland spend more on military or conscription to a non-existence EU army, nothing to do with changing Ireland's 12.5% corporate tax rate etc. and claiming it did the first time around in the last few days, when people were confused about what they were voting on last year, stole the democratic "choice" - if you don't know what you are voting for, you don't have a real choice, so you either don't vote at all or do what thousands of people said they did... voted No just in case... even at that its NOT the same decision, we retain a commissioner and have guarantees and retained opt outs other states would quite like to have.

But whoops, sorry guys, went off topic in a thread... that's bad for a staff member but being Irish I couldn't resist replying to a message linking lisbon with a three strikes anti-piracy law...

Originally posted by Dela:

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Originally posted by zenno:

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another reason i'll be voting no on lisbon. if we give these assholes "brussels" more power over our laws it will happen us here in ireland as well. and everyone thinks they live in a democracy lol it's a dictatorship they are really living in.

---

You mean those assholes whom without Ireland would have never emerged from what it was? Tell me what exactly Lisbon has to do with a three strikes policy approved by a national French parliament? Though I'm sure I'll soon see yet another bullshit claim about Lisbon that has something to do with file-sharing in the closing days... I guess it's not as bad as the Abortion or Euthanasia claims that Taliban Ireland err... COIR... are peddling.....

I just love to stack it up...

In Favour
------------

Fianna Fail
Green Party
Fine Gael
Labour
The Services, Industrial, Professional and Technical Union (SIPTU)
Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU)
Irish Farmers Association
Intel Corporation
Ryanair
etc.

In Opposition
-------------

Sinn Fein
Socialists
COIR
Libertas (or is it Rivada Networks?)
UK Independence Party (UKIP --> yes, UKIP is canvassing in Ireland, see those EU bulldozer bullshit leaflets? That was UKIP!)


Not to mention that the referendum commission - the only truly unbiased player in this thing - has approved the legal guarantees as "legal".

Here is my favorite piece from the Anti-lisbon halls --> http://i.afterdawn.com/storage/pictures/...y_crackpots.jpg

That's what it really comes down to, reality vs. conspiracy --- on the issues where it doesn't such as voting power, I'm dead surprised that someone would claim that Germany having more influence with 80,000,000 people than Ireland with 4,000,000 is undemocratic, and we've secured a commissioner that we would have lost (2+2 is not equal to 5 declan..) and we have VETO on tax and other issues and legally binding (referendum commission's words, not mine) guarantees for other major concerns. This is starting to feel like the NICE treaty now... where Sinn Fein and other opponents cried foul over very very familiar things, such as militarization, and legal guarantees were sought and retrieved... it passed and well.. I don't see Soviet-style tanks outside my house and no old people are getting euthanized either....

As for the issue that it is a second vote... I have heard people saying "Why should I have to vote again when we said NO?" and saying its undemocratic.... and to a degree, that feels right... however there is something to take into account. Lisbon has nothing to do with abortion, nothing to do with making Ireland spend more on military or conscription to a non-existence EU army, nothing to do with changing Ireland's 12.5% corporate tax rate etc. and claiming it did the first time around in the last few days, when people were confused about what they were voting on last year, stole the democratic "choice" - if you don't know what you are voting for, you don't have a real choice, so you either don't vote at all or do what thousands of people said they did... voted No just in case... even at that its NOT the same decision, we retain a commissioner and have guarantees and retained opt outs other states would quite like to have.

But whoops, sorry guys, went off topic in a thread... that's bad for a staff member but being Irish I couldn't resist replying to a message linking lisbon with a three strikes anti-piracy law...

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well they are assholes in brussels so live with it. lol i found your post interesting but off topic I think I spent to much time on boards.ie reading about lisbon. anyway we don't need lisbon it's complete rubbish useless garbage and anyone thinking a yes vote is going to create jobs in ireland or help our economy to recover is misled far of the beten track. opps I better watch out now i'm going off topic. vote no on lisbon lol I tought i'd get that in hehe

Quote:

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well they are assholes in brussels so live with it. lol i found your post interesting but off topic I think I spent to much time on boards.ie reading about lisbon. anyway we don't need lisbon it's complete rubbish useless garbage and anyone thinking a yes vote is going to create jobs in ireland or help our economy to recover is misled far of the beten track. opps I better watch out now i'm going off topic. vote no on lisbon lol I tought i'd get that in hehe

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Perhaps you should spend time reading the Lisbon Treaty itself instead of hours on a forum, or read the material online from the referendum commission whose job it is to provide an unbiased source of information on the treaty (required by law to be unbiased).

Did you see what happened when Jose Manuel Barroso was in Ireland and was asked about the claim that minimum wage would fall to €1.84 if Lisbon was passed? He replied by branding it a total made-up lie, which it is, they just pulled the figure out of their asses... but what was interesting was the opposition's reply to it. They said he had no right to interfere -- in other words... the opposition believe the EU commission has no right to interfere with them lying to Irish people - which they are.

As for the jobs claim, the reason Fine Gael and others are going with that is not because the treaty text itself creates any jobs in Ireland directly, it doesn't - but investment in this country from multi-nationals is based on three things primarily... low corporation tax, access to the EU market and/with English speaking population. European HQ's are placed in places like Dublin for that reason... it's not cause we're any way special, it's because of Europe, not in spite on it, and Europe has been a massive job creating force in Ireland... not to mention Ireland borrows from countries like Germany in this time of recession to make sure we can keep up public services, I wonder how many jobs would have gone without that..

Boards.ie isn't so bad, but has a lot of politics.ie guys in there... Politics.ie is owned by David Cochrane of Libertas, and he deleted posts on it before about Declan Ganley's company being in trouble in Iraq. Even other people who are voting NO to Lisbon on philosophical / political grounds dislike this man.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

Originally posted by Dela:

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Quote:

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well they are assholes in brussels so live with it. lol i found your post interesting but off topic I think I spent to much time on boards.ie reading about lisbon. anyway we don't need lisbon it's complete rubbish useless garbage and anyone thinking a yes vote is going to create jobs in ireland or help our economy to recover is misled far of the beten track. opps I better watch out now i'm going off topic. vote no on lisbon lol I tought i'd get that in hehe

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Perhaps you should spend time reading the Lisbon Treaty itself instead of hours on a forum, or read the material online from the referendum commission whose job it is to provide an unbiased source of information on the treaty (required by law to be unbiased).

Did you see what happened when Jose Manuel Barroso was in Ireland and was asked about the claim that minimum wage would fall to €1.84 if Lisbon was passed? He replied by branding it a total made-up lie, which it is, they just pulled the figure out of their asses... but what was interesting was the opposition's reply to it. They said he had no right to interfere -- in other words... the opposition believe the EU commission has no right to interfere with them lying to Irish people - which they are.

As for the jobs claim, the reason Fine Gael and others are going with that is not because the treaty text itself creates any jobs in Ireland directly, it doesn't - but investment in this country from multi-nationals is based on three things primarily... low corporation tax, access to the EU market and/with English speaking population. European HQ's are placed in places like Dublin for that reason... it's not cause we're any way special, it's because of Europe, not in spite on it, and Europe has been a massive job creating force in Ireland... not to mention Ireland borrows from countries like Germany in this time of recession to make sure we can keep up public services, I wonder how many jobs would have gone without that..

Boards.ie isn't so bad, but has a lot of politics.ie guys in there... Politics.ie is owned by David Cochrane of Libertas, and he deleted posts on it before about Declan Ganley's company being in trouble in Iraq. Even other people who are voting NO to Lisbon on philosophical / political grounds dislike this man.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/87311

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i have read as much as i could on the lisbon treaty. and don't talk about the minimum wage falling to €1.84 thats coir up to it's own tricks again i don't listen to coir as they are nutters imo. the ordinary working person on the street will benifit from voting no as the rich middle class will be the only ones to rake the benefits as well as big corporations. i have read enough of this treaty to prove to myself that we don't need it and never will. the yes camp has done nothing to sway me in my vote as all they have done is frighten people with their scaremongering and lies. i haven't heard or read one thing yet by the yes side that is true.

Quote:

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i have read as much as i could on the lisbon treaty. and don't talk about the minimum wage falling to €1.84 thats coir up to it's own tricks again i don't listen to coir as they are nutters imo. the ordinary working person on the street will benifit from voting no as the rich middle class will be the only ones to rake the benefits as well as big corporations. i have read enough of this treaty to prove to myself that we don't need it and never will. the yes camp has done nothing to sway me in my vote as all they have done is frighten people with their scaremongering and lies. i haven't heard or read one thing yet by the yes side that is true.

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Buddy, all the scaremongering is coming from one side of this debate, and if you haven't heard one thing true from the 95% of all elected politicians in this country, the vast majority of all Unions and business commerce groups, then you are obviously not reading much, or you are reading it all from a biased source or maybe you just aren't checking the facts.

I'm glad to see you denounce COIR, considering that they are nuts. They aren't just anti-abortion, they are right-wing-catholic extremists of the kind that held Ireland back for decades. But if you denounce COIR then you must look at Sinn Fein, even if you support them you have to ask why they are making similar claims as they did for NICE that never came true... then ask why Libertas is involved in this at all, who benefits in Libertas, plenty of reading material for that in my last post.... then why did Socialist Higgins have to CHANGE the text from the Lisbon Treaty on the pamphlets that he sent out.... then WHY is it OK that the UK Independence Party (UKIP), an organization that would not have the Republic of Ireland existing (if it could change it) or any power sharing in the North allowed to canvas for a NO vote in this country (if the EU commission is not even allowed to correct lies for the benefit of the voters)... and you get the idea.... the number of legitimate opposition shrinks and shrinks the further you go.

Who is loaning Ireland money right now, 400 million a WEEK just so we can make up the gaps and make sure our Garda stay on patrol, our teachers in the schools, our nurses in hospitals etc.? Who will cash the NAMA cheques for the banks? (European Central Bank) Who is investing €500 million in Ireland's electric grid to bring down consumer costs? (European Investment Board).... go to almost any "for the good" project in Ireland and look at its buildings, vehicles, sites etc. what do you see? THE EU FLAG. People forget very fast in this country.... instead they rather make up ridiculous claims about the common fisheries policy, or blame all of their problems on polish people (because they can't blame the brits anymore).

Nothing in this treaty presents any danger or major loss to the Republic or Ireland, or affects anybody's freedom or rights in a negative way.... if this really is an evil federalist treaty, then why does it bring about the framework for countries to LEAVE the European Union? We have our vetos where we need them, opt-outs where we benefit from them and validated legal guarantees on the issues raised by COIR, Libertas, Sinn Fein etc.

I'll say one last thing on it. What I find remarkable about this whole mess is the idea that European countries even care about Ireland's position on stuff like Abortion... they don't. Why would they care about our almost non-existent defense, they DONT (in the text itself it states Ireland as a case example of a neutral country), why would they force Ireland to give up its corporation tax when really the only viable way to do it would be to harmonize (and Ireland has veto) tax rates, which means all countries would have to harmonize... do you think Germany or the UK are going to agree to hand over control of their tax rates? No f**king way they would.... all Sinn Fein and Libertas et al. are doing is attempting to place mis-trust in the EU into the biggest benefits of the EU in HISTORY---Ireland. Particularly in the area of military, there is no greater track-record for working toward peace in the world than the EU. It's misplaced skepticism, they are inciting hatred based on fallacies in people in Ireland vulnerable to being led.

But ye, I respect your vote, I'm not trying to change your mind, just objected to some things you said, it's all good ;-) Either way, Ireland's decision won't block Lisbon in Europe, treaties have passed before without all member states and that will be what happens if we vote no (26+1)

Originally posted by Dela:

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Quote:

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i have read as much as i could on the lisbon treaty. and don't talk about the minimum wage falling to €1.84 thats coir up to it's own tricks again i don't listen to coir as they are nutters imo. the ordinary working person on the street will benifit from voting no as the rich middle class will be the only ones to rake the benefits as well as big corporations. i have read enough of this treaty to prove to myself that we don't need it and never will. the yes camp has done nothing to sway me in my vote as all they have done is frighten people with their scaremongering and lies. i haven't heard or read one thing yet by the yes side that is true.

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Buddy, all the scaremongering is coming from one side of this debate, and if you haven't heard one thing true from the 95% of all elected politicians in this country, the vast majority of all Unions and business commerce groups, then you are obviously not reading much, or you are reading it all from a biased source or maybe you just aren't checking the facts.

I'm glad to see you denounce COIR, considering that they are nuts. They aren't just anti-abortion, they are right-wing-catholic extremists of the kind that held Ireland back for decades. But if you denounce COIR then you must look at Sinn Fein, even if you support them you have to ask why they are making similar claims as they did for NICE that never came true... then ask why Libertas is involved in this at all, who benefits in Libertas, plenty of reading material for that in my last post.... then why did Socialist Higgins have to CHANGE the text from the Lisbon Treaty on the pamphlets that he sent out.... then WHY is it OK that the UK Independence Party (UKIP), an organization that would not have the Republic of Ireland existing (if it could change it) or any power sharing in the North allowed to canvas for a NO vote in this country (if the EU commission is not even allowed to correct lies for the benefit of the voters)... and you get the idea.... the number of legitimate opposition shrinks and shrinks the further you go.

Who is loaning Ireland money right now, 400 million a WEEK just so we can make up the gaps and make sure our Garda stay on patrol, our teachers in the schools, our nurses in hospitals etc.? Who will cash the NAMA cheques for the banks? (European Central Bank) Who is investing €500 million in Ireland's electric grid to bring down consumer costs? (European Investment Board).... go to almost any "for the good" project in Ireland and look at its buildings, vehicles, sites etc. what do you see? THE EU FLAG. People forget very fast in this country.... instead they rather make up ridiculous claims about the common fisheries policy, or blame all of their problems on polish people (because they can't blame the brits anymore).

Nothing in this treaty presents any danger or major loss to the Republic or Ireland, or affects anybody's freedom or rights in a negative way.... if this really is an evil federalist treaty, then why does it bring about the framework for countries to LEAVE the European Union? We have our vetos where we need them, opt-outs where we benefit from them and validated legal guarantees on the issues raised by COIR, Libertas, Sinn Fein etc.

I'll say one last thing on it. What I find remarkable about this whole mess is the idea that European countries even care about Ireland's position on stuff like Abortion... they don't. Why would they care about our almost non-existent defense, they DONT (in the text itself it states Ireland as a case example of a neutral country), why would they force Ireland to give up its corporation tax when really the only viable way to do it would be to harmonize (and Ireland has veto) tax rates, which means all countries would have to harmonize... do you think Germany or the UK are going to agree to hand over control of their tax rates? No f**king way they would.... all Sinn Fein and Libertas et al. are doing is attempting to place mis-trust in the EU into the biggest benefits of the EU in HISTORY---Ireland. Particularly in the area of military, there is no greater track-record for working toward peace in the world than the EU. It's misplaced skepticism, they are inciting hatred based on fallacies in people in Ireland vulnerable to being led.

But ye, I respect your vote, I'm not trying to change your mind, just objected to some things you said, it's all good ;-) Either way, Ireland's decision won't block Lisbon in Europe, treaties have passed before without all member states and that will be what happens if we vote no (26+1)

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intelligent comment you have here, i'll give you that, but i have my reasons just like everyone else and will be voting no. so good luck with the voting and we will see in a few days how it turns out. take it easy.

Vote no to guinness and yes to kilkenny beer.
Here in holland a united europe is not what the people want, but the politicians keep changing the goalposts and coming up with more other ideas to counter the no claim from the people. It will continue for long enough.We are all puppets in a corporate world and as the world is run by the corps/wa***rs er.. I mean bankers then the squeeze will be put on and tightened till its all over. The reason they will always win? Simple people want change but are unwilling to do anything about it. Excuses are abundent, we have a mortgage we have all the children to pay for schooling etc, we have loans to pay etc, we have this we have that and its better to sit at the table and discuss issues.Pink Floyd said it all in the song Money (am all right jack but keep your hands off of my stack) It all bull, there has to be a revolution and people take to the streets and fight for their rights over all the issues at hand and thats every body around the world. If we dont then Welcome To The Machine(pink floyd) that is the NWO. Its comin folks and only we can stop it. So what you gonna do about it?