AfterDawn: Tech news

Sony, Panasonic introduce Blu-ray discs with 33.4GB layers

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 02 Jan 2010 16:36 User comments (88)

Sony, Panasonic introduce Blu-ray discs with 33.4GB layers Panasonic and Sony have introduced the new i-MLSE (Maximum Likelihood Sequence Estimation) method this week, increasing the per-layer storage capacity of Blu-ray discs from the current 25GB to 33.4GB.
Tech-On! says the new method can use existing Blu-ray equipment, a "blue-violet laser diode with a 405 nm wavelength, and an object lens with a numeric aperture (NA) of 0.85."

i-MLSE will be proposed to the BDA for widespread adoption, and Sony being a founding member should mean eventual adoption of the standard.

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88 user comments

12.1.2010 17:40

sounds cool.
i wish i could read anything from that graph..then my comment would be beefier :P

22.1.2010 20:45

They can all keep their multi layer discs noth'n beats a good ol single layer dvd 5 at least a small scratch won't give read errors

32.1.2010 21:06

^^^^
Nothing beats ignorance i might say, DVD's are way-way-way more fragile than BD's in any way.
Even if you try to wipe a DVD with the most super special advanced cleaning cloth gets little thin scratches. BD's are the most scratch proof disc's ever get to production.

On topic
Anyone understand anything from that graph or have any more info to say if PS3 supports that???

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Jan 2010 @ 21:08

42.1.2010 23:18

I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??

52.1.2010 23:41

Yeah. I've given up on Blu-rays when they formed a biker gang behind my Kleenex dispenser, while my regular DVDs were helping out with the dishes and singing songs.

63.1.2010 1:28

I Mixed feelings on this...
1.) More space=better quality (in theory)
2.) Will there be 33GB single-sided blank disks? Is this just an attempt to make backup more expensive, by forcing people to buy DL blanks, while also making it impossible to backup a DL orriginal without quality loss?
3.) Will this be too much for the laser to handle over the long term?
4.) Wouldn't it be better if they were focusing on preventing errors, rather than trying to get as close to the maximum number of errors as possible?

Originally posted by SDF_GR:

On topic
Anyone understand anything from that graph or have any more info to say if PS3 supports that???
I don't understand the graph...but if SONY made it to be compatible with existing bluray players, then I think we can expect SONY PS3 compatability.

Originally posted by AfterDraw:
Yeah. I've given up on Blu-rays when they formed a biker gang behind my Kleenex dispenser, while my regular DVDs were helping out with the dishes and singing songs.
Are you a Disney cartoon character by any chance? How did your audio CDs react the the formation of the biker gang?

Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??
I think you are either half blind, or watching a crummy screen. My dad was talking the same way about blurays because they didn't look any better on his Plasma TV...closer inspection showed it was an SD TV, with a resolution lower than that of a DVD. Once we got him a quality TV, the difference was very noticable, even to a 60 year old man. As for audio, DTS is a proprietary standard...bluray supports it, but no one wants to use it because bluray supports better auto types that do not require you to pay a fee for every disk, player, and receiver you put it on. Properly encoded bluray 7.1 audio will blow the best DTS out of the water anyway, so it is not a loss at all. As for the price, amazon now sells many 3-disk bluray packs for less than the price of the same movie on a single DVD. I realize the local stores might overcharge in some areas...and there are lots of cheap DVDs in the bargain bins, but this is a temporary state. My only complaint about blurays is the lack of selection...and this is also a temporary state. Oh, and I also get much more enjoyment from my PS3's gaming than it's bluray player...but it would be a sad system if that were not the case.

73.1.2010 4:49

Originally posted by SDF_GR:
^^^^
Nothing beats ignorance i might say, DVD's are way-way-way more fragile than BD's in any way.
Even if you try to wipe a DVD with the most super special advanced cleaning cloth gets little thin scratches. BD's are the most scratch proof disc's ever get to production.

On topic
Anyone understand anything from that graph or have any more info to say if PS3 supports that???
My comment stems from movie & game hirage so i'm well aware that multi layer dvds are susceptible to read errors even with minor scratches compared to single layer, all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Jan 2010 @ 4:50

83.1.2010 6:22

Quote:
Originally posted by SDF_GR:
^^^^
Nothing beats ignorance i might say, DVD's are way-way-way more fragile than BD's in any way.
Even if you try to wipe a DVD with the most super special advanced cleaning cloth gets little thin scratches. BD's are the most scratch proof disc's ever get to production.

On topic
Anyone understand anything from that graph or have any more info to say if PS3 supports that???
My comment stems from movie & game hirage so i'm well aware that multi layer dvds are susceptible to read errors even with minor scratches compared to single layer, all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
All blu ray discs should have bumbs on them to try and prevent really bad scratchs...tho I always thought that a flimsy fact(?) 0-o

93.1.2010 7:53

I was the same way with DVDs... until I walked past those HDTV displays showing Transformers 2 on the new LED HDTVs... there's definitely more detail in Blu-ray resolution... go to Best Buy and check it out yourself.

103.1.2010 9:49

Originally posted by scorpNZ:
My comment stems from movie & game hirage so i'm well aware that multi layer dvds are susceptible to read errors even with minor scratches compared to single layer, all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Actually you are mistaken. DVD's and BD's are definitely not equally susceptible to the same scratches. If you have a chance pick up a BD and run your finger nail on the bottom side vs a DVD and you will notice just with that alone the difference in smoothness (that is basically the hard-coating technology or "Durabis" ~ Wiki). Now that exercise is by no means "scientific" it is just meant to help show a physical difference between them. Here is some additional info from the Wiki about BD's ~

Quote:
All Blu-Ray Disc media are required by specification to be scratch-resistant.[56] DVD media are not required to be scratch-resistant, but since development of the technology, some companies, such as Verbatim, implemented hard-coating for more expensive lineups of recordable DVDs.
BD's are proven to be BY FAR much more reliable and less prone to scratching. Hell you can even go to a local Gamestop and ask to see any handful of PS3 games that were just turned in and compare them to it's counterparts! That alone speaks volumes about the durability of BD's.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Jan 2010 @ 9:51

113.1.2010 10:34

Originally posted by ronhondo:
Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc.
You're kidding, right?

DTS on DVD's are LOSSY. (Google it if you don't know what it means.)

BluRays have LOSSLESS soundtracks which are identical to the studio masters. More than 80 percent of all BluRay releases have LOSSLESS SOUNDTRACKS which are a significant improvement over the lossy soundtracks found on the DVD's.

Do some research and learn about DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD - both of which cannot be found on regular DVD's.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
I don't see any improvment in the picture
The improvement in picture quality on both my 1080p 50 inch LCD and my 1080p front projector is dramatic.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
and the discs are expensive.
I can get most new releases for $20 or less and most older catalog titles for $15 or less. I just know where and when to shop.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
Who really needs a movie theater in there house??
Those of us who consider Home Theater as a hobby.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Jan 2010 @ 10:35

123.1.2010 10:45

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ronhondo:
Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc.
You're kidding, right?

DTS on DVD's are LOSSY. (Google it if you don't know what it means.)

BluRays have LOSSLESS soundtracks which are identical to the studio masters. More than 80 percent of all BluRay releases have LOSSLESS SOUNDTRACKS which are a significant improvement over the lossy soundtracks found on the DVD's.

Do some research and learn about DTS HD Master Audio or Dolby True HD - both of which cannot be found on regular DVD's.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
I don't see any improvment in the picture
The improvement in picture quality on both my 1080p 50 inch LCD and my 1080p front projector is dramatic.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
and the discs are expensive.
I can get most new releases for $20 or less and most older catalog titles for $15 or less. I just know where and when to shop.

Originally posted by ronhondo:
Who really needs a movie theater in there house??
Those of us who consider Home Theater as a hobby.
BR is pretty much the final step in making the 1000$ or less home theater a possibility, yes its not worth while right now this minute unless you got 2-5K to throw at it but in a couple years you could get a 200$ surround setup with a 700$ 36-50inch TV and 100$ BR player that will bring it all together.

I have made the move to BR as for as recording data goes 36$ for 15 22GB discs and a 8X 145$ player/burner.

Sooner or later I will gt a stand alone BR/DVR!

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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133.1.2010 10:54

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
BR is pretty much the final step in making the 1000$ or less home theater a possibility, yes its not worth while right now this minute unless you got 2-5K to throw at it but in a couple years you could get a 200$ surround setup with a 700$ 36-50inch TV and 100$ BR player that will bring it all together.

I have made the move to BR as for as recording data goes 36$ for 15 22GB discs and a 8X 145$ player/burner.

Sooner or later I will gt a stand alone BR/DVR!
If you shopped around last Black Friday you could have gotten a 50 inch 1080p plasma with a free Blu-ray player for $999. IIRC, Walmart had a 46 inch 1080p Bravia with a free Blu-ray player for $799. They were bundling free Blu-ray players with bargain priced HDTV's all over the place. At Best Buy most of the people I saw carrying our HDTV's also had Blu-ray players in their carts.

143.1.2010 11:00

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
BR is pretty much the final step in making the 1000$ or less home theater a possibility, yes its not worth while right now this minute unless you got 2-5K to throw at it but in a couple years you could get a 200$ surround setup with a 700$ 36-50inch TV and 100$ BR player that will bring it all together.

I have made the move to BR as for as recording data goes 36$ for 15 22GB discs and a 8X 145$ player/burner.

Sooner or later I will gt a stand alone BR/DVR!
If you shopped around last Black Friday you could have gotten a 50 inch 1080p plasma with a free Blu-ray player for $999. IIRC, Walmart had a 46 inch 1080p Bravia with a free Blu-ray player for $799. They were bundling free Blu-ray players with bargain priced HDTV's all over the place. At Best Buy most of the people I saw carrying our HDTV's also had Blu-ray players in their carts.
Plasma.....er...uumm........I'd rather wait for LED tech to come down if I am to spend more than 340$ 0-o

I'd not ready just yet to go in(300+) on my TV/stand alone player I have enough to deal with right now I am mostly just waiting till my funds and better tech becomes affordable :P

And then in a year or 2 USB 3.0 hits.....*droool* new CPU/RAM and mobo ahoy!!!

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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153.1.2010 11:13

Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??

I wish this place has an "Report idiotic post", function.

163.1.2010 14:21

Quote:
Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??

I wish this place has an "Report idiotic post", function.
So?? Some people are satisfied with DVDs and dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Sony can get stuffed.

173.1.2010 14:23

Quote:
Plasma.....er...uumm........I'd rather wait for LED tech to come down if I am to spend more than 340$ 0-o
Mmm LED TV with 240 refresh rate, and maybe one with a Cell processor in it...one day itll be affordable :)

183.1.2010 14:23

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??

I wish this place has an "Report idiotic post", function.
So?? Some people are satisfied with DVDs and dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Sony can get stuffed.
Who pays 50$ a movie? thats like paying more than 10$ for a DVD....

193.1.2010 14:36

Originally posted by windsong:
dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Where's your proof of this $50 per movie fee that Sony is charging?

And you do know that Sony isn't the only studio releasing movies right?

No one pays $50 for a single Blu-ray title anymore unless it's a multi-disc TV series or multi-disc Collections or one of those Special Boxed Editions with all those fancy add-ons.

I can get District 9 on Blu-ray from amazon for $17.99.
http://www.amazon.com/District-9-Blu-ray..._rd_i=193640011

The 2-disc DVD is more expensive at $22.99.
http://www.amazon.com/District-9-Two-Dis...62547113&sr=1-3

203.1.2010 14:47

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by windsong:
dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Where's your proof of this $50 per movie fee that Sony is charging?

And you do know that Sony isn't the only studio releasing movies right?

No one pays $50 for a single Blu-ray title anymore unless it's a multi-disc TV series or multi-disc Collections or one of those Special Boxed Editions with all those fancy add-ons.

I can get District 9 on Blu-ray from amazon for $17.99.
http://www.amazon.com/District-9-Blu-ray..._rd_i=193640011

The 2-disc DVD is more expensive at $22.99.
http://www.amazon.com/District-9-Two-Dis...&sr=1-3


And if you look hard enough you can get the 2 disc stuff for under 19!

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

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213.1.2010 15:04

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Toshibot:
And if you look hard enough you can get the 2 disc stuff for under 19!
I would look but I'm not interested in the 2-disc DVD.

The point is: The gap between Blu-ray and DVD pricing is slowly disappearing.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Jan 2010 @ 15:06

223.1.2010 15:40

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Toshibot:
And if you look hard enough you can get the 2 disc stuff for under 19!
I would look but I'm not interested in the 2-disc DVD.

The point is: The gap between Blu-ray and DVD pricing is slowly disappearing.
I like it with the DVD more portability. ^^

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
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233.1.2010 15:45

Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc.
Sorry but that's the most ignorant ill-informed set of comments I have read all year - you obviously know nothing about blu-rays or don't even own any.
dts sound on a blu ray is almost at the bottom end of quality audio available , many blu-rays have dts or hd.cfm" class="forum_link" target="_blank">dts-hd but most have dts hd ma or true hd or pcm which are infinitely superior so that blows your argument out of the water before you even get going.
not even going to get involved in the old "upscaled dvd is just as good as blu-ray" argument because anyone with two eyes who has compared the two knows the answer to this already.

243.1.2010 15:48

Quote:
So?? Some people are satisfied with DVDs and dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Sony can get stuffed.
another idiot who has never actually checked out the price of blu-rays on amazon etc and so pulls a figure out of thin air in his best drama queen mode to try and add weight to his weightless argument.

253.1.2010 15:48

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I like it with the DVD more portability. ^^
Portability is of no concern to me. When I watch a movie I watch it either on my 50 inch LCD or on my front projector setup - with 7.1 or 5.1 lossless surround. Blu-ray gives the best results. When I'm traveling I don't want to watch movies on a 3.5 inch screen - I read a book.

263.1.2010 15:57

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I like it with the DVD more portability. ^^
Portability is of no concern to me. When I watch a movie I watch it either on my 50 inch LCD or on my front projector setup - with 7.1 or 5.1 lossless surround. Blu-ray gives the best results. When I'm traveling I don't want to watch movies on a 3.5 inch screen - I read a book.
Most travel screens are 7-15 but whatever.... :P

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
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273.1.2010 16:02

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Most travel screens are 7-15 but whatever.... :P
Still too small for my taste.

For me it's a Blu-ray disc on a 42 inch or larger screen with lossless surround sound.

When I'm on the road I'd rather read a book.

283.1.2010 16:09

Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Most travel screens are 7-15 but whatever.... :P
Still too small for my taste.

For me it's a Blu-ray disc on a 42 inch or larger screen with lossless surround sound.

When I'm on the road I'd rather read a book.
Well there are those LCD glasses that look like a 60 inch screen...

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
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293.1.2010 16:32

So Blu-Ray movie's are going to be $40 Dollers now? $70 for a PS3 Game
well there $30 now and you add space and spend all this money on the new tech, they have to cost more.

If they don't raise the Price That just shows you how over priced they already are.

It's like 10 dollers to go see a movie, Avatar Just made how much Profit off of that alone Then there going to Charge $20 $30 a Movie there out of there Minds How many times can you watch the same movie.
Don't Forget about Regular DVD's Tee-shirts McDonald"s toys etc.
Maybe They shouldn't Pay an actor Million's of Dollars for Nothing.
I Haven't seen a good Movie in years.

33.4GB layers Is that really Needed

I beat Most PS3 games in an Hour or Two.
There is no way they are using up all that space.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Jan 2010 @ 16:33

303.1.2010 18:04

Originally posted by NINVIN21:
So Blu-Ray movie's are going to be $40 Dollers now?
Another MSRP guy.

Repeat after me children:

"No one pays MSRP for Blu-ray movies anymore."

313.1.2010 18:25

Blu-rays were never $40 anyways, even at launch lol

I just paid $18 for District 9 and $15 or so for the Hangover. That's what I would have paid for DVDs a year ago.

333.1.2010 20:45
LissenUp
Inactive

And this means ................ what?????

Cheaper blank blu-ray discs??

Until Sony/whomever comes up with a more cost effective solution......I just don't see anybody buying into blu-ray recorders.

Maybe this will help because I could sure use a way to back up larger amounts of data to something other than another HDD.

344.1.2010 6:18
bluraypor
Inactive

Sony hopes to give consumers innovative Bluray technology

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2010 @ 11:47

354.1.2010 12:50

Originally posted by scorpNZ:
all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Scratch test - lost Little Big Planet somewhere in the house. Missing for 2 weeks. Found it upside down in the corner one day. It was caked in dust, had a paw print on it (my greyhound is 85lbs), had some nasty sticky juice on it (probably my 1.5 year old). Either my kids kicked it to the corner or tossed it there, or my dog picked it up, I'll never know. I used my t-shirt and spit to scrub the gunk off and buff clean. Not a single scratch. I analyzed it for 10 minutes trying to get every angle of light on it. I was dumbfounded. With numerous DVD's going through similar scenarios, I can confidently say that they would not have survived.

364.1.2010 14:27
LissenUp
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Scratch test - lost Little Big Planet somewhere in the house. Missing for 2 weeks. Found it upside down in the corner one day. It was caked in dust, had a paw print on it (my greyhound is 85lbs), had some nasty sticky juice on it (probably my 1.5 year old). Either my kids kicked it to the corner or tossed it there, or my dog picked it up, I'll never know. I used my t-shirt and spit to scrub the gunk off and buff clean. Not a single scratch. I analyzed it for 10 minutes trying to get every angle of light on it. I was dumbfounded. With numerous DVD's going through similar scenarios, I can confidently say that they would not have survived.


Actually..............this is quite comforting. Assuming it's true, it would be the first brutal case of a blu-ray going through Hell and high water.

374.1.2010 14:54

Quote:
:

Originally posted by scorpNZ: all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Ammm...maybe in kids term would be more "understandable". Iron Man has no super powers, but is pretty darn hard to take the guy down with bullets, or even rockets, even though he is just a man(if according to your analogy,DVDs&Blu Ray are made of the same poly carb, whatever...) . Why? It has a little secret called "armor".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durabis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RN8o9K6O0I&fmt=18
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2010 @ 14:54


Piss me off, and I Will ignore You!

384.1.2010 19:22

Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Blu-rays were never $40 anyways, even at launch lol

I just paid $18 for District 9 and $15 or so for the Hangover. That's what I would have paid for DVDs a year ago.
Anything more expensive than FREE is too much for some of these people...esp. if it's also pricey to burn a non-recompressed copy they 'found' somewhere.

397.1.2010 9:13

Quote:
Originally posted by Toshibot:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
I like it with the DVD more portability. ^^
Portability is of no concern to me. When I watch a movie I watch it either on my 50 inch LCD or on my front projector setup - with 7.1 or 5.1 lossless surround. Blu-ray gives the best results. When I'm traveling I don't want to watch movies on a 3.5 inch screen - I read a book.
Most travel screens are 7-15 but whatever.... :P
Hey, my Touch Pro has a 3.6 inch screen, but it has a nice TV-out cable with it to hook up to TVs in hotel rooms for watching streaming media from my home server. All at 3G speeds without the hassle of crappy hotel wireless.

Also, am I the only one that looked at that graph and wondered what exactly that was supposed to show? It looked like someone's kid made it in 1st grade art class...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Jan 2010 @ 9:15

Do what you can while its still questionably Legal, before it becomes UNQuestionably ILLegal.
chrialex

407.1.2010 10:39

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by ronhondo:
I really don't care for Blu-Ray. DVD's play just as well on these players due to the upscale video processing. Most of my DVD's also have DTS Sound which I have yet to find on a Blu-ray disc. I don't see any improvment in the picture and the discs are expensive. The recorders are also expensive and forget trying to copy these discs. I really don't understand what the hype is about ?? I use a PS3 so the Blu-ray came with it. I get more enjoyment from the Netflix and Games. Who really needs a movie theater in there house ??

I wish this place has an "Report idiotic post", function.
So?? Some people are satisfied with DVDs and dont have the 50 bucks per movie fee Sony wants.

Sony can get stuffed.
Frys has The Final Destination for $12.99 and bestbuy have a bunch of movies for $9.99 and $14.99 I just bought 28 days later and outbreak for under $22.00

417.1.2010 10:49
scum101
Inactive

That's because it's a recession and they are desperately trying to just break even on them before paying landfill tax.

My local wallyworld gave up stocking BD media last year after 0 (yah zero) sales.. they didn't sell ONE film in 18 months. During the same time they sold 3 ps3's.. I like the bloke on the counter.. we always have a chat while I'm waiting for the girl with the yellow stickers to attack the bread.. he's foxy lol.. so somebody out there has at least the capability to play the films, they obviously just don't think 28 is a fair price for a movie compared to 9.99 for the same on dvd.

Nothing like "innovating" pointless upgrades to a doomed format is there.

I'm going to make improvements to the frequency response and playing length of shellac 78 rpm disks.. I'm sure there is a point somewhere ;)


427.1.2010 11:07

Originally posted by scum101:
Nothing like "innovating" pointless upgrades to a doomed format is there.
Scoreboard

437.1.2010 12:03

Quote:
Originally posted by scum101:
Nothing like "innovating" pointless upgrades to a doomed format is there.
Scoreboard
Looks like so far it is doomed to succeed.

449.1.2010 6:23

Originally posted by scum101:
That's because it's a recession and they are desperately trying to just break even on them before paying landfill tax.

My local wallyworld gave up stocking BD media last year after 0 (yah zero) sales.. they didn't sell ONE film in 18 months. During the same time they sold 3 ps3's.. I like the bloke on the counter.. we always have a chat while I'm waiting for the girl with the yellow stickers to attack the bread.. he's foxy lol.. so somebody out there has at least the capability to play the films, they obviously just don't think 28 is a fair price for a movie compared to 9.99 for the same on dvd.

Nothing like "innovating" pointless upgrades to a doomed format is there.

I'm going to make improvements to the frequency response and playing length of shellac 78 rpm disks.. I'm sure there is a point somewhere ;)
Seriously? They only sold 3 PS3s? They need to just close their doors then...I sold more than that (or rather, I convinced more than 3 people to buy one)...and I don't have a retail store. Based on those numbers, they probably didn't sell more than a dozen DVDs.

Originally posted by emugamer:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Scratch test - lost Little Big Planet somewhere in the house. Missing for 2 weeks. Found it upside down in the corner one day. It was caked in dust, had a paw print on it (my greyhound is 85lbs), had some nasty sticky juice on it (probably my 1.5 year old). Either my kids kicked it to the corner or tossed it there, or my dog picked it up, I'll never know. I used my t-shirt and spit to scrub the gunk off and buff clean. Not a single scratch. I analyzed it for 10 minutes trying to get every angle of light on it. I was dumbfounded. With numerous DVD's going through similar scenarios, I can confidently say that they would not have survived.
That's a good test...a while back, I saw a test online where they used steel wool to scratch up a bluray. After much work, they were able to get some small surface scratches, but the disk still played just fine. After watching the new Star Trek movie, I decided that I never wanted to watch it again (great graphics, but terrible plot). So I did my own scratch test...I had no steel wool, so I used some 80grit sandpaper. After a lot of work with it (A LOT OF WORK!!!), the disk looked like it would never play again...but it still played just fine in my PS3. I decided to drag a hacksaw blade across it...it still played, but it did have issues like skipping and pixilation once I did this...so I repeated the hacksaw test a couple more times to make sure that the movie would not play at all.


459.1.2010 14:39
zorb43
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Scratch test - lost Little Big Planet somewhere in the house. Missing for 2 weeks. Found it upside down in the corner one day. It was caked in dust, had a paw print on it (my greyhound is 85lbs), had some nasty sticky juice on it (probably my 1.5 year old). Either my kids kicked it to the corner or tossed it there, or my dog picked it up, I'll never know. I used my t-shirt and spit to scrub the gunk off and buff clean. Not a single scratch. I analyzed it for 10 minutes trying to get every angle of light on it. I was dumbfounded. With numerous DVD's going through similar scenarios, I can confidently say that they would not have survived.
If I found out that my kids did that they would be the next ones to go flying across the room and ending up on the floor in the corner ... ! DVD's and Blue Rays are way to expensive to be careless with regaurdless of their supposed scratch resistance.

469.1.2010 15:08
zorb43
Inactive

I'm going to make improvements to the frequency response and playing length of shellac 78 rpm disks.. I'm sure there is a point somewhere ;)


Seriously? They only sold 3 PS3s? They need to just close their doors then...I sold more than that (or rather, I convinced more than 3 people to buy one)...and I don't have a retail store. Based on those numbers, they probably didn't sell more than a dozen DVDs.

Originally posted by emugamer:
Originally posted by scorpNZ:
all dvd's regardless of type are made of poly carb & unless i'm mistaken blu ray are no different so just how much more scratch resistant are they or is that what's written on the packaging..lol..
Scratch test - lost Little Big Planet somewhere in the house. Missing for 2 weeks. Found it upside down in the corner one day. It was caked in dust, had a paw print on it (my greyhound is 85lbs), had some nasty sticky juice on it (probably my 1.5 year old). Either my kids kicked it to the corner or tossed it there, or my dog picked it up, I'll never know. I used my t-shirt and spit to scrub the gunk off and buff clean. Not a single scratch. I analyzed it for 10 minutes trying to get every angle of light on it. I was dumbfounded. With numerous DVD's going through similar scenarios, I can confidently say that they would not have survived.
That's a good test...a while back, I saw a test online where they used steel wool to scratch up a bluray. After much work, they were able to get some small surface scratches, but the disk still played just fine. After watching the new Star Trek movie, I decided that I never wanted to watch it again (great graphics, but terrible plot). So I did my own scratch test...I had no steel wool, so I used some 80grit sandpaper. After a lot of work with it (A LOT OF WORK!!!), the disk looked like it would never play again...but it still played just fine in my PS3. I decided to drag a hacksaw blade across it...it still played, but it did have issues like skipping and pixilation once I did this...so I repeated the hacksaw test a couple more times to make sure that the movie would not play at all.
Wow. That IS hard to believe. You should have ran it through you shredding machine and then collected all the small pieces and put them into you Blue Ray player to see if it might decode a few Bytes .... Hahahahaha ..... I see you have you page file on a separate 320g drive; Also your Boot files on another 320g drive. Should I do that with my laptop and use external drives? What are the advantages? I don't have a Raid array yet ... What would you recommend. Thanks in advance. Rich.

479.1.2010 15:20

Same old arguments all over again, bluray on 40 inch sets or below shows nothing, actually when you go to 46 inch or better is when you see some difference, plus spending all the extra cash for a lousy upgrade, you can have it, VHS to DVD, now there was an upgrade worth spending money over, DVD to Bluray is a joke.

489.1.2010 16:01

Originally posted by FredBun:
bluray on 40 inch sets or below shows nothing
For those who see nothing at 40 inches or below:

Help is on the way.

499.1.2010 16:07

Originally posted by FredBun:
Same old arguments all over again, bluray on 40 inch sets or below shows nothing, actually when you go to 46 inch or better is when you see some difference, plus spending all the extra cash for a lousy upgrade, you can have it, VHS to DVD, now there was an upgrade worth spending money over, DVD to Bluray is a joke.
Each to their own Fred... And yes, this same old argument is getting worn out. To say that there is no improvement at all on a 40" screen or less suggests to me that your eyes may not be as discerning as some others.

Besides, Blu-ray isn't just about picture quality. The audio has also been much improved. Even in worse case scenario through older AV equipment, the legacy codecs (Dolby/DTS) are of slightly higher bitrate not to mention the superb offerings of HD audio.

As far as cost vs. value, well that is the decision that only the consumer can make. You obviously have yours but please don't speak on behalf of the World. The point you make about VHS to DVD being a bigger jump than DVD to Blu-ray is somwhat true, but please don't omit the fact that people can still enjoy their DVD collection (albeit in better quality) on a Blu-ray player. No need for the old player to still be hanging around. Could you do this with VHS to DVD? So with this negative you mention, there is an equal positive present.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2010 @ 16:10

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

509.1.2010 16:30

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Originally posted by FredBun:
Same old arguments all over again, bluray on 40 inch sets or below shows nothing, actually when you go to 46 inch or better is when you see some difference, plus spending all the extra cash for a lousy upgrade, you can have it, VHS to DVD, now there was an upgrade worth spending money over, DVD to Bluray is a joke.
Each to their own Fred... And yes, this same old argument is getting worn out. To say that there is no improvement at all on a 40" screen or less suggests to me that your eyes may not be as discerning as some others.

Besides, Blu-ray isn't just about picture quality. The audio has also been much improved. Even in worse case scenario through older AV equipment, the legacy codecs (Dolby/DTS) are of slightly higher bitrate not to mention the superb offerings of HD audio.

As far as cost vs. value, well that is the decision that only the consumer can make. You obviously have yours but please don't speak on behalf of the World. The point you make about VHS to DVD being a bigger jump than DVD to Blu-ray is somwhat true, but please don't omit the fact that people can still enjoy their DVD collection (albeit in better quality) on a Blu-ray player. No need for the old player to still be hanging around. Could you do this with VHS to DVD? So with this negative you mention, there is an equal positive present.
The old argument that the upgrade is too expensive is no longer valid.

You can get deals all over the place. Amazon has just dropped prices on players with entry level models from Panasonic and Sony now at less than $130.

With regards to movies, the key is smart shopping and patience. I can get most new releases for $20 or less and most catalog titles for $15 or less. Some of these with the DVD or digital copy or both included. The price gap between DVD and Blu-ray is eroding faster than expected.

Finally, Ryu77's point of backward compatibility with DVD with the added value of upconversion to 1080p is icing on the cake.

519.1.2010 16:58

First to Ry, why on earth would you say something like speak for myself and not to the world, who in the hell is speaking for the world, of course my opinion is mine, where do you people come from when somebody comes off with an opinion and your almost told to shut up jeez!

Now there is nothing wrong with my eyes, my Sony 40 inch xbr is a top notch set, I remember the first time I rented a bluray everybody was all excited, and that means my wife, my kids, my friends and some neighbors even came over, I already owned the movie Transformers in DVD but rented it on BR, when I switched without telling anybody everybody said when are you gonna put the BR on, I said this is the BR, everyone said WHAT!, your kidding right, there goes your view right out the window, one of my neighbors does have one of those 56 inch or whatever sets, there I saw a slight difference, but not for the extra bucks, and as far as Tosh saying you can't make that argument anymore how can you say that, sure the prices went down, but what does that matter, you think I'm gonna switch my huge collection to BR because of a slight difference, like you guys say to each his own, but I'm not foolish enough to go out and spend money even if the prices have come down just to say I own the best or the newest, or to justify my new bought equipment and argue even if the facts don't show diddly.

You guys can harp all day long, it will never justify the fact that there is no way in hell one needs to switch to BR even with the lower costs, not for that little difference, I would not switch even if the prices were the same as DVD, just isn't worth it, I do not spend my money foolishly, if others want to than more power to you, and again please do not get on a high horse and tell me to keep my opinion off the world, I have never ever said anything like that to anybody here at AD, everybody is entitled to one.

And last, my neighbor next door, owns a 32 inch Samsung, we both played with his set using DVD & BR, the difference was nothing, Nada, Squat, None, Siltch, in plain words no difference on a 32 inch what so ever, and as far as sound, not everybody is an audio freak, we all have nice quality recievers with good speakers and the sound is just fine with what we have. Like I said before, a switch from VHS to DVD now that was something, DVD to BR is a joke, and no I'm not speaking for the world, but I can speak for at least 25 people that came to the same conclusion that I have first hand, they all thanked me for saving them some bucks also.

529.1.2010 17:04

Originally posted by FredBun:
I can speak for at least 25 people that came to the same conclusion that I have first hand, they all thanked me for saving them some bucks also.
Well my Scoreboard trumps your 25 people.

539.1.2010 17:19

Thats just the kind of answer I expect from all the people that went out and spent huge amounts of money especially in the begining, you want to throw specs at me, those specs mean nothing to me, most are there to get you to spend your hard earned cash.

My specs are real people not what some corporation throws at you, when I go to my local Blockbuster store I always notice how thier BR shelves stay full, there goes your specs, so yes, I'll take my 25 people over your 1000 specs or whatever any day, but last, hey as far as this BR thing goes, and thats your thing, and your lovin it, I think that's great, Enjoy it.

549.1.2010 17:31

Originally posted by FredBun:
My specs are real people not what some corporation throws at you, when I go to my local Blockbuster store I always notice how thier BR shelves stay full, there goes your specs, so yes, I'll take my 25 people over your 1000 specs or whatever any day, but last, hey as far as this BR thing goes, and thats your thing, and your lovin it, I think that's great, Enjoy it.
They're not specs.

They're sales figures.

As in real people who bought the product with their money.

559.1.2010 17:41

Originally posted by FredBun:
I go to my local Blockbuster store I always notice how thier BR shelves stay full,
Blockbuster?

Are you kidding? No one rents at Blockbuster any more. That's why they're closing down stores all over the place.

Of the 2 stores nearby - one already had to close down. At the other store even the DVD shelves are always full because no one is renting anymore. LOL!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2010 @ 17:45

569.1.2010 17:46

Same s%#t different shovel, like I said specs, now go to your figures, and tell me the difference on how much was spent on BR sales and equipment compared to DVD sales and equipment for 09, I don't think you'll be giving me a comeback on that one besides just another opinion.

I talk to sales people and managers also, I do my homework before I shout off at the jibs, and they all tell me a completely different story than what your figures hope to show, again, enjoy your BR set up, I'm happy for you.

579.1.2010 17:53

Blu-ray booms while DVDs keep slumping in fourth quarter

Quote:
Blu-ray continued to blossom over the holidays, but Hollywood didn't get any relief from plunging DVD sales, which still account for most home video revenue.

According to data compiled by the Digital Entertainment Group, a home entertainment trade organization, shipments of high-definition Blu-ray discs grew 35% in the U.S. to 38.6 million in the fourth quarter, the biggest period of the year for the industry as consumers buy gifts for the holidays.

Shipments of standard DVD discs fell 17% from the same three-month period in 2008 to 374.7 million. That's better than the 31% plunge the previous year, when the bottom first fell out of the DVD market as the recession hit and consumers started migrating toward rentals over purchases. However, several home entertainment executives have said they were hoping DVD sales would come closer to stabilizing last quarter compared with the previous year's free fall.

Overall revenue from DVD and Blu-ray sales dropped 14% in the fourth quarter. That combined figure, all that the DEG provided, masks a much bigger drop in the standard DVD category, since Blu-ray sales rose more than 35%.

"We have seen tremendous growth in both Blu-ray hardware and software," Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video and leader of the DEG, said in a statement. He added, hopefully, "We are looking forward to seeing some stabilization in the packaged goods sell-through business in the coming year."

Consumers have increasingly turned to rentals, rather than purchases, during the economic downturn, evidenced in a 4% rise in DVD and Blu-ray rental revenue last year to $6.5 billion. As Rentrak Corp., which provided rental data to the DEG, reported on Tuesday, all of that growth was attributable to bargain $1-per-night kiosk company Redbox and mail subscription company Netflix Inc.

Total spending on Blu-ray discs surpassed $1 billion last year for the first time, hitting $1.5 billion. Sales of the high-definition discs grew 70% to more than $500 million, while rentals increased by 48% to about $1 billion.

The higher demand for Blu-ray movies was fueled by a rapid increase in the number of devices that can play them. Consumers bought more than 7 million Blu-ray players in 2009, bringing the total in U.S. homes to about 17 million. More than 4.5 million were bought in the fourth quarter alone, driven by steep price cuts that brought down the cost of the most basic players below $100 at some stores.

Digital downloads via the Internet and cable systems also grew significantly in 2009, with revenue up 32% to $2.1 billion. Video-on-demand rentals were particularly fruitful this fall, rising 63% in the fourth quarter. One of the main reasons for that increase is that studios have been moving up the date at which they offer movies for VOD, in some cases to the same date or even before they are available to buy on DVD.

The growth in digital, Blu-ray and rentals was not enough, however, to make up for the big drop in standard DVD sales and rentals. Though DEG didn't specify how much it fell, standard DVD is the only category that didn't rise, driving down total home entertainment spending by 5% to $20 billion in 2009.

Domestic box-office sales, meanwhile, rose 10% last year to $10.6 billion.

Included in the 2009 report was some surprising news about the past: DEG revised downward its estimates of consumer entertainment spending during the last decade. For every year since 2001, total spending is now down, in some cases significantly, from what was previously reported. In 2008, for instance, DEG now says total home entertainment spending was $21 billion. Last year, the group said the figure was $22.4 billion.

A spokeswoman for DEG attributed the change to revised data from Rentrak.
Bottom line:

Blu-Ray = growth industry

DVD = decline
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2010 @ 17:55

589.1.2010 17:56

HDNow, god you guys entertain me, when it comes to tuesdays when all the new movies come out the shelves at my store just about clear out, besides my store just got granted another 4 year lease, yes some others closed down around the slower areas, but it seems to me there are still enough people to make my store stay in bussines, and again the BR shelves stay full.

But were not talking about how good BB is doing, thats another subject, I still do just fine with mine and still get pretty good deals, so until something better comes along for me no need to look elswhere.

Now to get back on topic, I hope you guys are not feeling bad about spending all those extra bucks for BR, not my intention, so don't feel bad guys. Enjoy your BR, I really mean it.

599.1.2010 18:07

HDNow, LOL, there goes those specs again, sure if that article makes you fell justified for spending those extra bucks, sure than I'm glad you beleive it, you see I'm old school, I believe what I see, and hear, not that often what I read, I have read articles like that, but the people in the trenches say otherwise, if I read something that interests me I do my own homework, than I'll go out and survey, so I do not beleive especially by people that mostly get paid or get favors thrown at them just to write atricles like that, so keep reading that article if it makes you feel better. Enjoy your BR.

609.1.2010 19:25

Originally posted by FredBun:
Now to get back on topic, I hope you guys are not feeling bad about spending all those extra bucks for BR, not my intention, so don't feel bad guys. Enjoy your BR, I really mean it.
You seem to be obsessed about the extra bucks that we're spending.

Actually I haven't been spending any extra bucks lately.

I just bought 2 Blu-ray titles from amazon:
The Hangover - $19.99
Public Enemies - $19.99
Total $39.98

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UV4...rd_i=2236024011
http://www.amazon.com/Public-Enemies-Spe...4/ref=ed_oe_blu

If I bought the DVD versions:
http://www.amazon.com/Hangover-Unrated-T...M/ref=ed_oe_dvd
http://www.amazon.com/Public-Enemies-Two...3082468&sr=1-16

The total would be $41.48

So don't obsess and don't worry about us spending too much on BR. We're doing just fine.

619.1.2010 19:37

I'm not obsessed about anything, I just don't spend money foolishly, you say you haven't spent any extra bucks, maybe your not spending extra on whatever your doing now with you BR, extra or not, but you bought into it didn't you, so you just made my point, you see I didn't spend anything on it, therefor I'm not obsessed, I'm just defending my point, so if I'm not mistaken I think the obession lies elsewhere.

629.1.2010 19:46

Originally posted by HDNow:
Originally posted by FredBun:
Now to get back on topic, I hope you guys are not feeling bad about spending all those extra bucks for BR, not my intention, so don't feel bad guys. Enjoy your BR, I really mean it.
You seem to be obsessed about the extra bucks that we're spending.

Actually I haven't been spending any extra bucks lately.

I just bought 2 Blu-ray titles from amazon:
The Hangover - $19.99
Public Enemies - $19.99
Total $39.98

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001UV4...rd_i=2236024011
http://www.amazon.com/Public-Enemies-Spe...4/ref=ed_oe_blu

If I bought the DVD versions:
http://www.amazon.com/Hangover-Unrated-T...M/ref=ed_oe_dvd
http://www.amazon.com/Public-Enemies-Two...3082468&sr=1-16

The total would be $41.48

So don't obsess and don't worry about us spending too much on BR. We're doing just fine.
If you're a smart and patient shopper you can pretty much get your BD movies with a premium of $5 or less over the DVD version.

In some cases you will even see the BD version with the same or even lower price than the DVD. Case in point is the current price of Public Enemies on amazon.

Definitely worth the upgrade from a 480i source to a 1080p source (not to mention the upgraded audio on most titles.)

639.1.2010 19:58

You guys just aren't getting it are you, I said before, why should I change my anything if this BR does not benifit me at all, why should I spend one red cent on it, I don't care what kind of deal BR is offering, I not foolish enough to buy into it.

This is just gonna go on and on isn't it, so let me end it right now, you guys are absolutely right about the whole deal, I am totally wrong about it all, I do not know what I am talking about, you guys got me, Enjoy your BR.

649.1.2010 20:13

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Besides, Blu-ray isn't just about picture quality. The audio has also been much improved. Even in worse case scenario through older AV equipment, the legacy codecs (Dolby/DTS) are of slightly higher bitrate not to mention the superb offerings of HD audio.

As far as cost vs. value, well that is the decision that only the consumer can make. You obviously have yours but please don't speak on behalf of the World. The point you make about VHS to DVD being a bigger jump than DVD to Blu-ray is somwhat true, but please don't omit the fact that people can still enjoy their DVD collection (albeit in better quality) on a Blu-ray player. No need for the old player to still be hanging around. Could you do this with VHS to DVD? So with this negative you mention, there is an equal positive present.
The other feature present on some Blu-ray players (that is not available on DVD players) is connectivity.

I've just been playing with some of the features on an LG BD390 and I'm impressed. There's built in WiFi, plus the ability to play Netflix, YouTube and CinemaNow streams. In addition there's DLNA connectivity lets me stream HD content from my PC.

Blu-ray players are increasingly becoming all-in-one media hubs - something that you won't see on a regular DVD player. PLUS they upconvert your old DVD collection to 1080p.

The news from CES has IPTV coming:

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/21213.cfm

The day may come when you won't even need a cable or satellite box.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2010 @ 20:15

6510.1.2010 9:19

FredBun, I can see that you posted something that signified that you no longer wish to converse here but I felt I should at least reply to your post.

Originally posted by FredBun:
First to Ry, why on earth would you say something like speak for myself and not to the world, who in the hell is speaking for the world, of course my opinion is mine, where do you people come from when somebody comes off with an opinion and your almost told to shut up jeez!
I'm sorry if I offended you but the previous post sounded more like you spoke on behalf of many. You mentioned you can speak on behalf of 25 people you have helped to decide against Blu-ray in a post after this one. Without intending to place my statement above yours, I feel I have helped quite many myself as that is my daily job. I do sell TV's & Home Theatre equipment for a living.

Originally posted by FredBun:
Now there is nothing wrong with my eyes, my Sony 40 inch xbr is a top notch set
Can I ask though, what were your reasons for purchasing a top of the line Sony Bravia TV if not for better picture quality? I agree that they are great as I have a 52" Z Series Bravia. However, I am curious as to why you buy a high level Full HD set but seem to dismiss the benefits of Blu-ray? Wouldn't you have been better off buying a HD (1366 x 768) LCD as you mentioned that Full HD (1920 x 1080) has no benifit at 40" and many times stated that it is just a waste of money?

Originally posted by FredBun:
I remember the first time I rented a bluray everybody was all excited, and that means my wife, my kids, my friends and some neighbors even came over, I already owned the movie Transformers in DVD but rented it on BR, when I switched without telling anybody everybody said when are you gonna put the BR on, I said this is the BR, everyone said WHAT!, your kidding right, there goes your view right out the window
You were using HDMI right? This is a very important factor in determining where your view comes from. It is quite strange that I keep a DVD and Blu-ray copy of that exact movie to demonstrate the benefits of Blu-ray at work, and every single person has been able to see the improvement in quality. Transformers is one of the cleanest looking Blu-ray releases to date. If you can not see it there, then yes you are right, Blu-ray is of no benefit to you.

Originally posted by FredBun:
one of my neighbors does have one of those 56 inch or whatever sets, there I saw a slight difference, but not for the extra bucks, and as far as Tosh saying you can't make that argument anymore how can you say that, sure the prices went down, but what does that matter
A slight difference on a 50" - 58" set... Wow, I guess 5 times the extra pixels can still not be seen at that size. With all due respect Fred, that does suggest to me that your eyes aren't as discerning as some. Now please don't take this as derogatory, as for myself and many others the difference is very noticable.

Originally posted by FredBun:
you think I'm gonna switch my huge collection to BR because of a slight difference, like you guys say to each his own
That was my point earlier, you don't need to do that at all. Your DVD's will still play fine on a Blu-ray player, but with Blu-ray there is the option to go for the Blu-ray release in the future.

Originally posted by FredBun:
but I'm not foolish enough to go out and spend money even if the prices have come down just to say I own the best or the newest, or to justify my new bought equipment and argue even if the facts don't show diddly.
But didn't you do that when you bought your new Bravia TV?

Originally posted by FredBun:
You guys can harp all day long, it will never justify the fact that there is no way in hell one needs to switch to BR even with the lower costs, not for that little difference, I would not switch even if the prices were the same as DVD, just isn't worth it, I do not spend my money foolishly, if others want to than more power to you, and again please do not get on a high horse and tell me to keep my opinion off the world, I have never ever said anything like that to anybody here at AD, everybody is entitled to one.
So even if Blu-ray was the same cost as DVD, you still wouldn't buy it? That does seem kind of odd to me. Is there another reason why you don't like it. If there is, that's completely fine but I honestly can not see any logic at this point. If things were the same cost, why wouldn't you buy the superior product?.. However slight the improvement might be.

Originally posted by FredBun:
And last, my neighbor next door, owns a 32 inch Samsung, we both played with his set using DVD & BR, the difference was nothing, Nada, Squat, None, Siltch, in plain words no difference on a 32 inch what so ever, and as far as sound, not everybody is an audio freak, we all have nice quality recievers with good speakers and the sound is just fine with what we have. Like I said before, a switch from VHS to DVD now that was something, DVD to BR is a joke, and no I'm not speaking for the world, but I can speak for at least 25 people that came to the same conclusion that I have first hand, they all thanked me for saving them some bucks also.
I can gather far more testomonials from happy customers than 25... But, this isn't the arena for a superiority challenge. I am simply astounded of the rare few individuals out there that just seem to have a hatred for Blu-ray but can not provide any real reasons or logic.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

6610.1.2010 10:58

I thought I was done with this thread, but since you politely asked it would not be polite of me not to answer.

I 'll make this as short as I can, yeah right lol, I know how people react in stores especially when salesmen throw their pitch, many people today that are buying LCD's are upgrading from standard TV's, of course it's gonna look great, especially when you show them a huge screen, that's when BR kinda shines, sure it's nice, if a huge screen is your thing, I would have to sit two rooms away to view one of those things, which brings me to my eye sight, my eye sight might be better than yours, I have been cursed so to speak because when I view my TV's I have always been a perfectionist, if I would go over some friends home's and watch ball games on their TV and many times the picture was off it would bother the hell out of me, and I know your gonna reply well if your such a perfectionist than why are you knocking BR, again, watching my 40 inch Sony the picture is great, I view my HD channels, my DVD's and the pictures are crystal clear, if I wanted a 60 inch set if I was rich I would build a home theater, I don't have millions. Besides like I said no way I could watch a huge screen in the same regular sized living room, why cause my eyes are to good, it hurts.

Viewing my 40 inch Sony with my regular DVD's are just fine, like I said before, a 40 or under BR is a waste, I really do wish it was not, I always yearn for better quality, and if it is quality if I can afford it I jump on it.

Your comment on me buying this Sony, ok, when I first saw these LCD TV's some years back, I was salivating for one, but, I could not handle them, especially with fast action movies and sports, I could not handle that blur, it would actually make me dizzy, why cause my eyes are to good, it doesn't bother most people I know, but than again I do have great eye sight, to damn good sometimes.

So when I first read about Sony coming out with the 120hz I think it's called I decided to give it a shot, now don't forget, even with BR with a 60hz set I still saw the blurs, not with this 120 Sony, I was surprised at the difference, finally I could buy an LCD, I also got a great deal on it at the time it was a one day sale, so there is your answer about that, I didn't buy it cause it was a top notch set, I bought it because finally the quality was there without hardly any blur.

And yes I was anxious to finally enjoy BR, unfortunately it didn't happen, my kids already had the PS3 console and man was I disappointed, I really wanted this BR thing to be successful I really did. I don't knock it cause I'm against advancement, I knock it cause it doesn't work, they expected us to spend huge bucks on new equipment, new media, buy new BR movies, were not talking about pennies here, and for what, for that slight deference, I can't fall for that.

Like I said before, remember that deference from VHS to DVD, man that was something, I was elated, it was a great feeling to see that difference, not so with BR, if I ever hit the big lottery, and afford a huge home with a huge theater room with a giant screen with BR of course, nice comfy theatrical type seats in rows lol man that would be my dream, but for how most regular people view, not happening.

You remember I said when I viewed BR on one of my neighbors home with that huge set, he bought it cause his wife wanted one, I was surprised when he said he can't watch it much in his living room cause it hurts his eyes, he can't sit far enough from it, same thing with me, damn things make me dizzy.

As far as my 25 friends, lol, how much more peoples advice do you need to determine an outcome, I also go out and talk to people other than my close 25 friends, most share my opinion, when I go out to local store like bestbuy or such, I talk to people, I watch and listen to their reactions, I remember last year at bestbuys, I saw a couple being manipulated by a salesman, he was trying to sell them one of those huge screens and buy new BR equipment, I love how these stores set up a special room with a huge screen with a great huge sound system, a BR setup, yupers it looks and sounds great, you also do not get the opportunity to view a 32in. 40in. sets, sure they are hooked up to a local HD signal, anyway, I pulled the guy aside, asked him to set up a BR player & a DVD player to the exact same Sony I have, the salesman tried his damnest to talk him out of it, you see those places don't let you view DVD on all the displayed sets, only the one in that special room where they control everything, all those other sets never have a player hooked up, they say it's not cost effective, I had a movie with me, I was there to buy another DVD player and see if it was compatible with my copy of a DVD movie, and lets not go there, I'm not gonna argue about why I copy my store bought movies, my kids have ruined enough of them, so when they want to watch one of my movies they can view my copy, so there and I don't care who likes it or not RIAA or whomever else disagrees, thay can all kiss my you know what.

Well after fighting the salesman he finally agreed, he hooked it up on that 40 inch Sony with a BR player and a DVD player, guess what, the couple walked off with that Sony, no BR player that he also tried to sell them plus the huge set, he shook my hand and thanked me, he too said he saw no difference, not enough to spend all that extra money, and the salesman, man was he pissed at me, but while the DVD player was still set up, I tried my copy and it worked fine, we talked some and actually became a little friendly, I still see him at times when I visit bestbuy and he says oh no not you again, please stay away from my customers jokingly of course but in the end he is a pretty nice guy, when people ask me for advise to buy I send them to him if he's there, I just tell them to ask for George and make sure you say Fred sent you, when I send them he doesn't pull their string so to speak lol, and he always thanks me if he sells or not.

So there you have it, you got my lowdown, and hey if you like this BR thing, if you think it makes a difference than by all means go for it, I just think people should experience it for themselves somewhere before they buy and be disappointed later. So phew! I'm done, there you have it, I won't be explaining anymore, at 61 my hands hurt. And last, really I mean it, if this BR really wets your whistle, I'm glad for ya, I wish I could be.

6710.1.2010 11:13

Originally posted by Ryu77:
A slight difference on a 50" - 58" set... Wow, I guess 5 times the extra pixels can still not be seen at that size. With all due respect Fred, that does suggest to me that your eyes aren't as discerning as some. Now please don't take this as derogatory, as for myself and many others the difference is very noticable.
Ryu77: I had a feeling that viewing distance had something to do with it.

Now it's confirmed:

Originally posted by FredBun:
he can't sit far enough from it, same thing with me, damn things make me dizzy.
Sit far away enough from something and you really won't see a difference.

6810.1.2010 11:32

lol, sorry tosh, that one doesnt even deserve a reply, even though ry and I might disagree but at least he makes sense and comments I can live it, I can politely disagree with him at least.

Have a good one guys I'm outta here.

6910.1.2010 11:37

Quote:
You mentioned you can speak on behalf of 25 people you have helped to decide against Blu-ray in a post after this one. Without intending to place my statement above yours, I feel I have helped quite many myself as that is my daily job. I do sell TV's & Home Theatre equipment for a living.
25 people

He brushes off industry-wide data as reported by a respected consumer advocate group.

Instead he repeatedly cites anecdotal comments from a small circle of 25 people.


Well, since he opened the door to anecdotal evidence:

On Black Friday weekend my local Walmart sold 48 units of the Magnavox Blu-ray player on sale for $78. They sold an additional 75 units at the same price during the weeks leading to Christmas. (They didn't lower it like other stores did.) Their stock of Panasonic and Vizio players also sold out at sale prices. By the end only a few Sony and Philips players were left.

And I didn't even have to convince any of them.

7010.1.2010 11:43

Fred, did you do your Blu-ray and DVD comparison with a HDMI cable? That was one question I was hoping you would answer.

Originally posted by FredBun:
I love how these stores set up a special room with a huge screen with a great huge sound system, a BR setup, yupers it looks and sounds great, you also do not get the opportunity to view a 32in. 40in. sets, sure they are hooked up to a local HD signal, anyway, I pulled the guy aside, asked him to set up a BR player & a DVD player to the exact same Sony I have, the salesman tried his damnest to talk him out of it, you see those places don't let you view DVD on all the displayed sets, only the one in that special room where they control everything, all those other sets never have a player hooked up, they say it's not cost effective
Actually, in my store we are set up with HDMI/HDCP repeaters that link to every, single TV set with a central AV rack to hold all the source devices (PS3, Blu-ray Player, TiVo, HD set top box etc.). So if I change it to a Blu-ray source, every TV set changes to this source. Just to clarify, this is by no means a small store. I would guess we have approx. 150+ TV's on display. Nothing to hide here. As I said earlier, every single customer I have demonstrated Blu-ray to can see an improvement. Some see it more than others. Admittedly, some aren't that keen on it as they hardly even watch discs at all... But to say there is NO difference on TV's 40" or below... Well... Let's just leave it at that as I have had a completely different experience.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2010 @ 11:46

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

7110.1.2010 12:20

here we go lol, HD, yeah walmart, dont even wanna touch that, not my cup of tea, but anyway sure they will buy it, till they get home and most see no difference, I've seen enough get dissaponted on that subject, and stop harping about my 25 friends, if you haven't gotten my point by now there is no sense to continue with you.

Ry, yes I have tried and do use HDMI, believe me I tried it all thinking maybe there was something we were missing when we first tried BR on my set. but it's not just mine I see the same reaction no matter were I go or who I visit, your store sounds interesting, in my area I live at the suburbs of Philly, I miss the kind of stores yours sounds like, we had high end Video and Audio shops once, they are all gone now, I know they were more expensive but at least you could try things out with no problem, the personel knew what they were talking about, unfortunatly we lost them all thanks to places like Bestbuy, CiruitCity etc. were most salespeople are nitwits when it comes to audio and video, not all but most.

Anyway, I'm done arguing with some here, nobody here is gonna change my mind and I don't want to change anybody's, read peoples experiances and make your own desicion, but Ry what kind of shop is yours, and what area if I am ask.

7210.1.2010 12:30

Originally posted by FredBun:
I've seen enough get dissaponted on that subject, and stop harping about my 25 friends,
Can't help it.

Your stance that 25 people have more weight than industry-wide, nationally reported sales numbers is, quite frankly, astonishing, obsessional and illogical.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2010 @ 12:30

7310.1.2010 12:47

You didnt read everything on my posts did you, I don't go by spec's, I go by people, you relying on them is your downfall not mine.

7410.1.2010 12:58

Originally posted by FredBun:
You didnt read everything on my posts did you, I don't go by spec's, I go by people, you relying on them is your downfall not mine.
So by your logic, the home entertainment industry shouldn't rely on these DEG numbers since it will lead to their downfall.

Right, gotcha.

BTW, can you give me the names and phone numbers of these 25 friends so I can give them to the entertainment industry execs in case they want to consult them?

7510.1.2010 13:10

HD now your getting childish, spare me please, save your keyboard and type for somebody else, your not gonna get me into some nitwit arguments.

7610.1.2010 13:17

Originally posted by FredBun:
HD now your getting childish, spare me please, save your keyboard and type for somebody else, your not gonna get me into some nitwit arguments.
Still waiting for the names and numbers. And include yourself as well - the industry might just appreciate your expertise.

7710.1.2010 13:20

Like I said childish, I sense grammer school here.

7810.1.2010 13:25

Originally posted by FredBun:
Like I said childish, I sense grammer school here.
At least GRAMMAR school kids can spell the word correctly LOL!

http://www.answers.com/topic/grammar-school

Now who's being childish?

7910.1.2010 13:37

Oh my god you got me, I misspelled gramer, are we feeling more secure now lol, so this is where your resorting to huh!, your just burying yourself deeper and deeper, look if you want to make adult comments I'm with you, don't resort to this, your just making a fool out of yourself, I'm not trying to down you I'm trying to teach you something, myself and Ry got into a little spat but wound up talking intelligently, it's OK to disagree, but please take my advise, take a deep breath, if you don't your gonna fall into the lost cause category. Look if we keep going on and on like this a mod is gonna get into the act, I wouldn't blame him, so please think a little.

8010.1.2010 13:44

Originally posted by Ryu77:
Actually, in my store we are set up with HDMI/HDCP repeaters that link to every, single TV set with a central AV rack to hold all the source devices (PS3, Blu-ray Player, TiVo, HD set top box etc.). So if I change it to a Blu-ray source, every TV set changes to this source. Just to clarify, this is by no means a small store. I would guess we have approx. 150+ TV's on display. Nothing to hide here. As I said earlier, every single customer I have demonstrated Blu-ray to can see an improvement. Some see it more than others. Admittedly, some aren't that keen on it as they hardly even watch discs at all... But to say there is NO difference on TV's 40" or below... Well... Let's just leave it at that as I have had a completely different experience.
I've had the same experience in my local AV dealer - although they have fewer HDTV's on display. They have a separate viewing area where lighting is better controlled and the displays are not in TORCH mode. Seating distance is more in line with what you would see in a normal family room.

The verdict is always the same: even on HDTV's as small as 32 inches the imrovement in PQ is visible.

8110.1.2010 13:49

Originally posted by HDNow:
Blu-ray booms while DVDs keep slumping in fourth quarter

Quote:
Blu-ray continued to blossom over the holidays, but Hollywood didn't get any relief from plunging DVD sales, which still account for most home video revenue.

According to data compiled by the Digital Entertainment Group, a home entertainment trade organization, shipments of high-definition Blu-ray discs grew 35% in the U.S. to 38.6 million in the fourth quarter, the biggest period of the year for the industry as consumers buy gifts for the holidays.

Shipments of standard DVD discs fell 17% from the same three-month period in 2008 to 374.7 million. That's better than the 31% plunge the previous year, when the bottom first fell out of the DVD market as the recession hit and consumers started migrating toward rentals over purchases. However, several home entertainment executives have said they were hoping DVD sales would come closer to stabilizing last quarter compared with the previous year's free fall.

Overall revenue from DVD and Blu-ray sales dropped 14% in the fourth quarter. That combined figure, all that the DEG provided, masks a much bigger drop in the standard DVD category, since Blu-ray sales rose more than 35%.

"We have seen tremendous growth in both Blu-ray hardware and software," Ron Sanders, president of Warner Home Video and leader of the DEG, said in a statement. He added, hopefully, "We are looking forward to seeing some stabilization in the packaged goods sell-through business in the coming year."

Consumers have increasingly turned to rentals, rather than purchases, during the economic downturn, evidenced in a 4% rise in DVD and Blu-ray rental revenue last year to $6.5 billion. As Rentrak Corp., which provided rental data to the DEG, reported on Tuesday, all of that growth was attributable to bargain $1-per-night kiosk company Redbox and mail subscription company Netflix Inc.

Total spending on Blu-ray discs surpassed $1 billion last year for the first time, hitting $1.5 billion. Sales of the high-definition discs grew 70% to more than $500 million, while rentals increased by 48% to about $1 billion.

The higher demand for Blu-ray movies was fueled by a rapid increase in the number of devices that can play them. Consumers bought more than 7 million Blu-ray players in 2009, bringing the total in U.S. homes to about 17 million. More than 4.5 million were bought in the fourth quarter alone, driven by steep price cuts that brought down the cost of the most basic players below $100 at some stores.

Digital downloads via the Internet and cable systems also grew significantly in 2009, with revenue up 32% to $2.1 billion. Video-on-demand rentals were particularly fruitful this fall, rising 63% in the fourth quarter. One of the main reasons for that increase is that studios have been moving up the date at which they offer movies for VOD, in some cases to the same date or even before they are available to buy on DVD.

The growth in digital, Blu-ray and rentals was not enough, however, to make up for the big drop in standard DVD sales and rentals. Though DEG didn't specify how much it fell, standard DVD is the only category that didn't rise, driving down total home entertainment spending by 5% to $20 billion in 2009.

Domestic box-office sales, meanwhile, rose 10% last year to $10.6 billion.

Included in the 2009 report was some surprising news about the past: DEG revised downward its estimates of consumer entertainment spending during the last decade. For every year since 2001, total spending is now down, in some cases significantly, from what was previously reported. In 2008, for instance, DEG now says total home entertainment spending was $21 billion. Last year, the group said the figure was $22.4 billion.

A spokeswoman for DEG attributed the change to revised data from Rentrak.
Bottom line:

Blu-Ray = growth industry

DVD = decline
People can change their minds.

But the DEG numbers don't.

What caught my eye was not how much DVD sales fell(it's the only category that didn't rise) but how much Blu-ray sales increased - almost to the point of making up for the loss in DVD sales.

8210.1.2010 13:52

Originally posted by Toshibot:
What caught my eye was not how much DVD sales fell(it's the only category that didn't rise) but how much Blu-ray sales increased - almost to the point of making up for the loss in DVD sales.
Exactly.

8310.1.2010 14:01

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/HONSHI/20091222/178809/

I tried reading the original article on techon but I still can't understand the graph.

Am I correct in saying that better error correction routines allow you to pack in more data into a disc?

I'm reminded of the time when CD's increased from 650MB to 700MB and recordings increased from 65 to 70 to 88 to 90 minutes long.

8410.1.2010 14:29

I think tosh and HD are trying to convince each other that they made the right decisions on spending those bucks, lol, go get em guys, you almost had me convinced, by the way I love those figures, I can also get you great looking pamphlets on land in the swamps you can build on, I'll jump on your bandwagon, just to make you guys feel better, that was a great article, yup, changed my mind, I'm convinced now, going to the bank right now from there I'm going to bestbuy, get all the BR stuff I can get, with these articles I have seen the light.

Guys, look, enjoy your BR equipment, I wish I could be as happy, no matter still an interesting thread, but time to sign off, just wish I could have gotten a responce from Ry, I really was interested where he worked, I had some questions. Enjoy your new found equipment people.

8510.1.2010 14:53

Originally posted by FredBun:
I think tosh and HD are trying to convince each other that they made the right decisions on spending those bucks,
Again, the obsession with how much was spent.

Hey Fred, it's 2010. The price for admission just went waaay down.

Brand name BluRay player $130 - $200
New-release titles $20 or less
Catalog titles $15 or less

Quote:
but time to sign off,
Promise?

8610.1.2010 16:31

Originally posted by FredBun:
I think tosh and HD are trying to convince each other that they made the right decisions on spending those bucks, lol, go get em guys, you almost had me convinced, by the way I love those figures, I can also get you great looking pamphlets on land in the swamps you can build on, I'll jump on your bandwagon, just to make you guys feel better, that was a great article, yup, changed my mind, I'm convinced now, going to the bank right now from there I'm going to bestbuy, get all the BR stuff I can get, with these articles I have seen the light.

Guys, look, enjoy your BR equipment, I wish I could be as happy, no matter still an interesting thread, but time to sign off, just wish I could have gotten a responce from Ry, I really was interested where he worked, I had some questions. Enjoy your new found equipment people.
Easy there, champ. No need to get your underpants in a bunch.

I think you'll find that most Blu-ray owners are satisfied with their gear and with the format. How else can you explain the "tremendous growth in both Blu-ray hardware and software" and the total sales of Blu-ray titles reaching $1.5 billion last year. That's 70% growth in the middle of the worst recession we've seen in a while. I can't think of any other sector or industry that grew by that much.

I know I can't go back to regular DVD. The upgrade was worth every cent. If I didn't upgrade I would feel doubt and uncertainty every time I watched an upconverted DVD on my HDTV. "Good enough" just doesn't cut it. I'll always be asking myself: "Is there's something better than this?" The peace of mind alone is worth it.

8711.1.2010 6:02

Originally posted by FredBun:
just wish I could have gotten a responce from Ry, I really was interested where he worked, I had some questions.
I am in Australia so I thought that it wouldn't really be relevant. Besides, I don't like to share too much personal information on the internet.

"Great minds discuss ideas... Average minds discuss events... Small minds discuss people"

PS3 compatible video creation thread... mkv2vob, tsMuxeR etc.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/621809
The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/639346

8827.3.2010 8:38
Sumit
Unverified new user

Edited for "Affiliate" Spam Offer. Closed

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Mar 2010 @ 19:22

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