AfterDawn: Tech news

Sony expands its case against PS3 hackers

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 07 Feb 2011 21:06 User comments (46)

Sony expands its case against PS3 hackers PSX-Scene has revealed that Sony is expanding its lawsuit against PS3 hackers, moving on from just Geohot and adding well-known hackers Cantero, Peter, Bushing, Segher, hermesEOL, kmeaw, Waninkoko, grafchokolo, kakaroto to its list.
The company will subpoena a number of sites, like PSX-Scene, Twitter, Github, Slashdot and even YouTube, in an attempt to find the location of the defendants.

Many of the hackers, such as hermes, are not located in the U.S., so it is unclear how Sony will be able to bring them to court.

Github was where hackers shared the source codes. The site was recently sent DMCA takedown notices and removed the code.

You can view all the documents here: Sony Expanding It's Case - Looking For All PS3 Hackers

Previous Next Write a comment

46 user comments

17.2.2011 21:39

I think Sony doing this is because there will be no PS4 anytime soon... If that wasn't the case, then Sony would of go after the hackers that showing us how to hack the psp as well unless it's the same people that hacking the psp... Also the PS3 is bigger than the psp anyway ;)


27.2.2011 21:51

Sony is doing this because they are of the mind that every PS3 ever sold still belongs to them. They are expanding their lawsuit because they realized that geohot is not a pirate, and they hope that at least one of the other hackers might be. They are doing it now because 3.60 will be released soon; and they don't want it getting hacked on 0-day. This is the only explanation for going after grafchokolo; because they already know that there will be blowback for going after someone who is working on OtherOS.

Presumably, they will try to use broken parts of US laws to go after foreign hackers that live under similar laws, but with different loop holes.

All these cases are actually a good thing in the long run...Sony is going to loose most of them, and set legal standards all over the world. With any luck, the blowback will be so severe that a few of the upper management will be forced to resign, and maybe someone with half a brain will take control.



37.2.2011 21:55

i guess sony like to be at the bottom of console sales
#1 WII 1million sold
#2 DS 900.000 sold
#3 XBOX 800.000 sold
#4 APPLE IPOD 700.000 sold
#5 sony ???




microsoft after a ban wave

48.2.2011 1:36

Originally posted by coorva:
i guess sony like to be at the bottom of console sales
#1 WII 1million sold
#2 DS 900.000 sold
#3 XBOX 800.000 sold
#4 APPLE IPOD 700.000 sold
#5 sony ???
One of these things is not like the others...

58.2.2011 1:49

I still don't understand why people glitch online I wish it was like live and ban them permanently.

68.2.2011 3:35

good luck going after the spanish guys , the spanish courts normally come down on the side of the hackers or at least they do so far

78.2.2011 8:37

It's because it allows people to pirate PS3 games.

It's the only real reason why all these people have hacked the PS3, you can say home brew all day long but the only stuff coming out allows games to be copied to the HD and then played or allow the signing of these back up programs so people can stay on the newest firmware currently.

You can be sued in any country or place, once the subpoena has been served then you have to turn up at that court, you can pass on turning up but the court case still goes ahead with or without you there.

The end result probably won't go in your favour as your not there to defend yourself.

So these guys in Spain etc will either get sued in Spain or the USA, if they end up with a jail term in the USA.

Then a world wide warrant can be issued and those people can be arrested and then goto court in the country they were arrested in then get hauled over to the USA to do their time.

So yeah living in another country doesn't mean much as the wheels of the legal system will still turn where ever you are.

The only thing is time, it might take a few years before people in other countries get brought to the USA but it'll happen if they have to serve time.

If they only get fined then they have to pay the fine don't pay it and it'll turn into a warrent which turns into jail time so the above will happen anyway as these people are probably kids.

who think it'll all goes away, when you do nothing about it, but it doesn't it stays and you become marked.

Someone who lives in Spin takes a holiday to the UK will get arrested and the same deal in many countries.

That what these people don't understand it never goes away until you deal with it.

88.2.2011 8:46

It isn't like the other companies didn't try the same at one point or another; just not to this extent. Yea it will blow up on Sony's face, and no upper management will not change, because fighting piracy is a universal management agreement and Sony has the financial backing to take this fight for a while.

What people should understand is eventually the costs of said legal battles go back to consumers, the money just doesn't leave Sony's pocket for legal fees and they just let it go without claiming it back. They'll incorporate the costs into their TVs, consoles, software, laptops, songs and more.

When is enough, enough? Never. This will always happen every generation and I now lost my train of thought as my daughter is bopping on the couch to the sounds of the TV while sleeping....

98.2.2011 12:20

G4tv Geo says that the hack doesn't allow pirated but only allow homebrew lol

check out PSX-Scene the comment about it... youtube blocked the video though

108.2.2011 16:26
lissenup2
Inactive

Originally posted by xaznboitx:
I think Sony doing this is because there will be no PS4 anytime soon... If that wasn't the case, then Sony would of go after the hackers that showing us how to hack the psp as well unless it's the same people that hacking the psp... Also the PS3 is bigger than the psp anyway ;)


Duh. Of course there's going to be no PS4 anytime soon but that's not WHY they're doing this.




As for those not in the U.S.....................HA HA HA. Good F'ing luck Sony. They're pissin' on your name, your intellectual rights, your IP, your copyrights and sometimes your equipment I'm sure. Not a damn thing Sony can do, especially when they're in countries like Taiwan, Thailand, the Middle East, Asia, etc.

The consumer bought the PS3 and can do with it what they want. You're only case is against the dissemination of stolen game code.

I'll be following this.

118.2.2011 19:00

Sony is having great sales at the moment coorva what you talking about? hope they do there best to stop it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Feb 2011 @ 19:01

128.2.2011 21:57

Originally posted by elbald90:
good luck going after the spanish guys , the spanish courts normally come down on the side of the hackers or at least they do so far

Spanish courts say end-users own their products and can do what they want with them...they haven't really said that hackers can do anything they want.

Originally posted by xaznboitx:
G4tv Geo says that the hack doesn't allow pirated but only allow homebrew lol

However, if hacks themselves contain copyrighted code, distributing it would still violate copyright laws. Hack tools that just modify/patch a few spots in an existing file can be legal, but any full releases of CFW are illegal. Not sure if Geohot's is pure 'patch' or more!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Feb 2011 @ 21:57

138.2.2011 21:59

Originally posted by Deadrum33:
Originally posted by coorva:
i guess sony like to be at the bottom of console sales
#1 WII 1million sold
#2 DS 900.000 sold
#3 XBOX 800.000 sold
#4 APPLE IPOD 700.000 sold
#5 sony ???
One of these things is not like the others...
Originally posted by brockie:
Sony is having great sales at the moment coorva what you talking about? hope they do there best to stop it.
While some of the previous comments are off topic and so will mine be in response to oorva's original comment, it has to be said/clarified that the PS3 has outsold the 360 YoY and 2010 was no different (by over 2 Million too, not just a small amount). It is still the most expensive console being sold while the 360 has had it's old stock of original design sold at a discount last year with the introduction of the 360s PLUS the information of it having a $500 Million dollar advertising campaign for Kinect/360s. And yet the PS3 is only about 3 Million behind. So yes you are "right" the PS3 is at the "bottom"; but if you want to be that technical we can break it down to things like PlayStation Products within the household are #1 or Market Share for the 360 & Wii is continually losing ground YoY and etc...

2011 will see the PS3 pass the 360 in total sales easily, with more exclusives, more variety & an almost definite price drop by the next holiday (though I believe it will/would have still outsold the 360 without said price drop) things will be very different quite soon. Additionally if you want to delve deeper then you have to look at attachment rates and the PS3 is neck and neck with the 360 which kind of shows a discrepancy flag as to how many working 360's are actually really out there. Either way at this point it is kind of mute because the difference of 3 Million is nothing like the original 10+ Million it was like when the PS3 launched and it's nothing most people who know the truth don't already know.

On topic blending what I just talked about and the hack in discussion it is a double edged sword in that it may spur additional sales at the cost of losing revenue in different streams (i.e. console profit & game sales profit for devs which is not good for ALL gamers). But will increase overall total sales which is nothing that the 360 or Wii aren't already going through. I guess we'll see as time moves on.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Feb 2011 @ 22:04

1411.2.2011 0:46
lissenup2
Inactive

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by Deadrum33:
Originally posted by coorva:
i guess sony like to be at the bottom of console sales
#1 WII 1million sold
#2 DS 900.000 sold
#3 XBOX 800.000 sold
#4 APPLE IPOD 700.000 sold
#5 sony ???
One of these things is not like the others...
Originally posted by brockie:
Sony is having great sales at the moment coorva what you talking about? hope they do there best to stop it.
While some of the previous comments are off topic and so will mine be in response to oorva's original comment, it has to be said/clarified that the PS3 has outsold the 360 YoY and 2010 was no different (by over 2 Million too, not just a small amount). It is still the most expensive console being sold while the 360 has had it's old stock of original design sold at a discount last year with the introduction of the 360s PLUS the information of it having a $500 Million dollar advertising campaign for Kinect/360s. And yet the PS3 is only about 3 Million behind. So yes you are "right" the PS3 is at the "bottom"; but if you want to be that technical we can break it down to things like PlayStation Products within the household are #1 or Market Share for the 360 & Wii is continually losing ground YoY and etc...

2011 will see the PS3 pass the 360 in total sales easily, with more exclusives, more variety & an almost definite price drop by the next holiday (though I believe it will/would have still outsold the 360 without said price drop) things will be very different quite soon. Additionally if you want to delve deeper then you have to look at attachment rates and the PS3 is neck and neck with the 360 which kind of shows a discrepancy flag as to how many working 360's are actually really out there. Either way at this point it is kind of mute because the difference of 3 Million is nothing like the original 10+ Million it was like when the PS3 launched and it's nothing most people who know the truth don't already know.

On topic blending what I just talked about and the hack in discussion it is a double edged sword in that it may spur additional sales at the cost of losing revenue in different streams (i.e. console profit & game sales profit for devs which is not good for ALL gamers). But will increase overall total sales which is nothing that the 360 or Wii aren't already going through. I guess we'll see as time moves on.


I am only commenting on the sales of PS3 vs XBox 360. After much research and looking, I have only found that Xbox 360 still has a noteworthy amount of a lead on PS3 in total sales. Though you mentioned YoY but that's understandable because of the delay they had as opposed to XBox 360.

I haven't seen anything what-so-ever indicating that PS3 has outsold the 360 to date but have found many to the contrary.

1511.2.2011 7:21

Forget PS3 sales. The machine is over hyped and a failure. I spent a lot of money on it hoping for great things and I wish I hadn't bothered. Blu ray players are so cheap now so it really doesn't justify the price for a PS3.

The Xbox 360 is a better machine only let down by the RROD saga. I think if MS get it right in the next console without any hardware problems, Sony may be in big trouble.

The same happened with Sega when they failed to deliver on the Saturn. I have a feeling the console wars will draw to a close in the not too distant future as game sales have declined(lack of ideas) and the market is very stale.


Trin - Making Digital Waves

1611.2.2011 9:24

Originally posted by xtago:
It's because it allows people to pirate PS3 games.

It's the only real reason why all these people have hacked the PS3, you can say home brew all day long but the only stuff coming out allows games to be copied to the HD and then played or allow the signing of these back up programs so people can stay on the newest firmware currently.

You can be sued in any country or place, once the subpoena has been served then you have to turn up at that court, you can pass on turning up but the court case still goes ahead with or without you there.

The end result probably won't go in your favour as your not there to defend yourself.

So these guys in Spain etc will either get sued in Spain or the USA, if they end up with a jail term in the USA.

Then a world wide warrant can be issued and those people can be arrested and then goto court in the country they were arrested in then get hauled over to the USA to do their time.

So yeah living in another country doesn't mean much as the wheels of the legal system will still turn where ever you are.

The only thing is time, it might take a few years before people in other countries get brought to the USA but it'll happen if they have to serve time.

If they only get fined then they have to pay the fine don't pay it and it'll turn into a warrent which turns into jail time so the above will happen anyway as these people are probably kids.

who think it'll all goes away, when you do nothing about it, but it doesn't it stays and you become marked.

Someone who lives in Spin takes a holiday to the UK will get arrested and the same deal in many countries.

That what these people don't understand it never goes away until you deal with it.

I'm not sure all that applies to a civil suit... internationally speaking.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

1711.2.2011 10:16

Originally posted by TrinUK:
Forget PS3 sales. The machine is over hyped and a failure. I spent a lot of money on it hoping for great things and I wish I hadn't bothered. Blu ray players are so cheap now so it really doesn't justify the price for a PS3.

The Xbox 360 is a better machine only let down by the RROD saga. I think if MS get it right in the next console without any hardware problems, Sony may be in big trouble.

The same happened with Sega when they failed to deliver on the Saturn. I have a feeling the console wars will draw to a close in the not too distant future as game sales have declined(lack of ideas) and the market is very stale.
Wow, just because you bought the PS3 at launch price ($600, that's what your comment sounded like), it doesn't mean the console is a hyped failure. Where have you been since the PS3's launch? The BD players are cheaper now, so does the PS3 price :)

The Xbox is the Xbox, saying if MS don't have RRoD problem, it probably kill the PS3 is like saying if Nintendo had gone with Sony's disc idea it would have killed the PS1. It's silly... Let there be competition, it's good for the consumers. Do I want to see MS fail? No! Do I want to see Sony fail? No! I don't want to see PC or Nintendo gaming fail either. I like choices, brand loyalty is just plain stupidity that stretch beyond infinity.

I root for hackers too, but for their intelligence, determination and curiosity, not for their arrogance, immaturity and cowardice.

1811.2.2011 10:38

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:
Forget PS3 sales. The machine is over hyped and a failure. I spent a lot of money on it hoping for great things and I wish I hadn't bothered. Blu ray players are so cheap now so it really doesn't justify the price for a PS3.

The Xbox 360 is a better machine only let down by the RROD saga. I think if MS get it right in the next console without any hardware problems, Sony may be in big trouble.

The same happened with Sega when they failed to deliver on the Saturn. I have a feeling the console wars will draw to a close in the not too distant future as game sales have declined(lack of ideas) and the market is very stale.
Wow, just because you bought the PS3 at launch price ($600, that's what your comment sounded like), it doesn't mean the console is a hyped failure. Where have you been since the PS3's launch? The BD players are cheaper now, so does the PS3 price :)

The Xbox is the Xbox, saying if MS don't have RRoD problem, it probably kill the PS3 is like saying if Nintendo had gone with Sony's disc idea it would have killed the PS1. It's silly... Let there be competition, it's good for the consumers. Do I want to see MS fail? No! Do I want to see Sony fail? No! I don't want to see PC or Nintendo gaming fail either. I like choices, brand loyalty is just plain stupidity that stretch beyond infinity.

I root for hackers too, but for their intelligence, determination and curiosity, not for their arrogance, immaturity and cowardice.

I agree on the competition and you used the right word.
Now that is exactly where the problem lies, there is NO competition in the console market because software houses are launching the same games on each machine. So by doing this, they have become lazy and complacent.

I have to say although the PS3 and Xbox360 have advanced hardware and excellent graphics, I am pleased with Nintendo overall. Simply because they came out with an original console and software even though it may be a little primitive. On the plus side, At least i get to experience the positives of all 3 machines :)

Trin - Making Digital Waves

1911.2.2011 10:54

Originally posted by TrinUK:

I agree on the competition and you used the right word.
Now that is exactly where the problem lies, there is NO competition in the console market because software houses are launching the same games on each machine. So by doing this, they have become lazy and complacent.

I disagree... If you look at the exclusive titles for each consoles, there's a lot of competition going on. If you're talking about multi-platform games, then yeah, plenty of laziness...

If Xbox is showing off Gears of War, PS3 counter with Uncharted... The console is also pushed by exclusive titles, this is why Nintendo is popular, not because the Wii is innovative. For those of us really appreciate games, multiple consoles are the key drivers to innovation.

Peace!

2011.2.2011 10:58

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:

I agree on the competition and you used the right word.
Now that is exactly where the problem lies, there is NO competition in the console market because software houses are launching the same games on each machine. So by doing this, they have become lazy and complacent.

I disagree... If you look at the exclusive titles for each consoles, there's a lot of competition going on. If you're talking about multi-platform games, then yeah, plenty of laziness...

If Xbox is showing off Gears of War, PS3 counter with Uncharted... The console is also pushed by exclusive titles, this is why Nintendo is popular, not because the Wii is innovative. For those of us really appreciate games, multiple consoles are the key drivers to innovation.
You've got to be joking???? Sega vs Nintendo. That my friend is competition and exclusivity. Enough said.

Trin - Making Digital Waves

2111.2.2011 11:27

Why is that every game discussions always end up with Saga vs. Nintendo, or that's the real competition or that's the real exclusivity? That's the past, stop dwelling on the past... It's like saying, yo man, did you see those caveman's drawings? That's the real stuff, that's exclusivity, there's no other competitions like this. What the hell that even mean?!?! It's like trying to tell today's kids how great the walkman was or those portable CD players... Enough said what? That the floppy disks are awesome? The 486s are totally rad? If you like so much, invent a time machine and stay there then.

I appreciate the past, because w/o it, there's no present. But come on, seriously, what does any of that has to do with the competition of the consoles TODAY?!?! It's like Sony whispering to MS, "Nintendo is gonna be ambushed by Sega, you just watch, the old war is not over" And MS giggles... It's ridiculous.

I hate those people label everything with CLASSIC. It's a classic man, don't you appreciate classics? What the hell does that even mean?!?! Okay, I get it, it's a classic argument, a classic returning/recurring statement. Well, I tell you what's classic is about, it's about things I want to forget, but some old farts always blabbering about them and I just don't want to hurt their feelings.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Feb 2011 @ 11:28

Peace!

2211.2.2011 11:38

Not dwelling on the past but stating a fact. You claimed there is an abundance of exclusive titles for each consoles when clearly this is not the case and it is a fact that gaming sales have dropped for that very reason. People are bored with shooters and war game sequels and kids cannot play those games either!

This is why parents opted for the Wii.

I mentioned Sega vs Nintendo because I collect consoles as a hobby. From personal experience and others will agree that those times were the most exciting for video gaming while on the home computer side it was Commodore vs Atari. The next gens are not in the same class in that aspect. Boring as hell.... Hardware don't mean jack because technically they are pretty close. it's the software that makes the differences. And for 2011.... Another line up of shooters


Trin - Making Digital Waves

2311.2.2011 12:57

Originally posted by lissenup2:
I am only commenting on the sales of PS3 vs XBox 360. After much research and looking, I have only found that Xbox 360 still has a noteworthy amount of a lead on PS3 in total sales. Though you mentioned YoY but that's understandable because of the delay they had as opposed to XBox 360.

I haven't seen anything what-so-ever indicating that PS3 has outsold the 360 to date but have found many to the contrary.
3 Million is not "a noteworthy amount of a lead". The Wii is the only console that can actually say that. But I don't see what is so hard to grasp as the PS3 YoY has sold more vs the 360. It's quite simple actually ~ 360 5 years = +/- 10 Million a year vs PS3 4 years = +/- 12 Million year, when you average it out.

Even when you don't average it and go by their exact sold numbers the PS3 still outsold it YoY. The only reasons why the 360 has a higher total amount sold is because of the year head start (up to 1.5 year in the EU for a total of about 10+ Million at the start) & the RROD/E74 + Banning Repurchases throughout the 5 years. Also it was not so much of a "delay" (as you say towards Sony) but more so Microsoft rushing out a poorly designed console to get to market ahead of Sony at an attempt to gain market share (or by also using planned obsolescence possibly).

But these are already known & common things after 5 years already.

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:

I agree on the competition and you used the right word.
Now that is exactly where the problem lies, there is NO competition in the console market because software houses are launching the same games on each machine. So by doing this, they have become lazy and complacent.

I disagree... If you look at the exclusive titles for each consoles, there's a lot of competition going on. If you're talking about multi-platform games, then yeah, plenty of laziness...

If Xbox is showing off Gears of War, PS3 counter with Uncharted... The console is also pushed by exclusive titles, this is why Nintendo is popular, not because the Wii is innovative. For those of us really appreciate games, multiple consoles are the key drivers to innovation.
This is correct. There is no comparison when it comes to exclusives & dev support on the PS3 & Wii vs the 360. Sony (20+) & Ninty (I think 10+) have more inhouse & exclusive devs making a variety of games/genres while MS has I believe 3...3 exclusive inhouse devs. They rely on 3rd party multiplatform games which doesn't exactly help with variety and when they do get an exclusive it is usually a timed one.


Originally posted by TrinUK:
You claimed there is an abundance of exclusive titles for each consoles when clearly this is not the case and it is a fact that gaming sales have dropped for that very reason. People are bored with shooters and war game sequels and kids cannot play those games either!....And for 2011.... Another line up of shooters
Gnawnivek's claim about an abundance of exclusives is based on fact. If you don't see them that does not make it true. I can sorta agree there are people who are bored with shooters but it must be from the 360 side more than the PS3/Wii camps because as I just explained above there are WAAAAY more devs making WAAAAY more varied games for the PS3/Wii than the 360. As for game sequels there is no greater than Mario but people don't really tire of that now do they? But that is neither here nor there I guess.

I do agree there is a HUGE amount of shooters this year but I think it just happened to work out that way not purposely planned or designed by Activision, EA, Epic, Crytek, Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog, Insomniac & who ever else. This year looks to be the year of the "3" ~ Killzone 3, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, Resistance 3...and while these are all sequels they are great franchises with enthralling story lines and exciting gameplay that have quite a following so if certain people aren't in to them no big deal right? They can just buy/play something else of interest that is available!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Feb 2011 @ 13:33

2411.2.2011 13:46

never mind the rest of the edited for content that violates forum rules.. you bought the edited for content that violates forum rules thing... you paid for it.,.. who the edited for content that violates forum rules does it belong to.. them or you?

take it to court and throw it at the bastards.. minimum there is assault.. they can't prosecute you for taking it outside and hitting it with a hammer (yet) ..

and this is soooooo edited for content that violates forum rules funny.. swallow edited for content that violates forum rules and buy their products.. get screwed over.. edited for content that violates forum rules!!!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Feb 2011 @ 14:06

2511.2.2011 14:04

Originally posted by ps355528:
never mind the rest of the edited for content that violates forum rules.. you bought the edited for content that violates forum rules thing... you paid for it.,.. who the edited for content that violates forum rules does it belong to.. them or you?

take it to court and throw it at the bastards.. minimum there is assault.. they can't prosecute you for taking it outside and hitting it with a hammer (yet) ..

and this is soooooo edited for content that violates forum rules funny.. swallow edited for content that violates forum rules and buy their products.. get screwed over.. edited for content that violates forum rules!!!
If you can't watch your language your account will be removed.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Feb 2011 @ 14:07

2611.2.2011 19:02

I have no sympathy for Sony,because over the years they have produced enough garbage,and passed it on to unsuspecting consumers.So I say,"ALL THE POWER TO THE HACKERS" and anyone else who can give them a run for thier money.
Yours Truly, Scorned Consumer.

2711.2.2011 22:41

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by lissenup2:
I am only commenting on the sales of PS3 vs XBox 360. After much research and looking, I have only found that Xbox 360 still has a noteworthy amount of a lead on PS3 in total sales. Though you mentioned YoY but that's understandable because of the delay they had as opposed to XBox 360.

I haven't seen anything what-so-ever indicating that PS3 has outsold the 360 to date but have found many to the contrary.
3 Million is not "a noteworthy amount of a lead". The Wii is the only console that can actually say that. But I don't see what is so hard to grasp as the PS3 YoY has sold more vs the 360. It's quite simple actually ~ 360 5 years = +/- 10 Million a year vs PS3 4 years = +/- 12 Million year, when you average it out.

Even when you don't average it and go by their exact sold numbers the PS3 still outsold it YoY. The only reasons why the 360 has a higher total amount sold is because of the year head start (up to 1.5 year in the EU for a total of about 10+ Million at the start) & the RROD/E74 + Banning Repurchases throughout the 5 years. Also it was not so much of a "delay" (as you say towards Sony) but more so Microsoft rushing out a poorly designed console to get to market ahead of Sony at an attempt to gain market share (or by also using planned obsolescence possibly).

But these are already known & common things after 5 years already.

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:

I agree on the competition and you used the right word.
Now that is exactly where the problem lies, there is NO competition in the console market because software houses are launching the same games on each machine. So by doing this, they have become lazy and complacent.

I disagree... If you look at the exclusive titles for each consoles, there's a lot of competition going on. If you're talking about multi-platform games, then yeah, plenty of laziness...

If Xbox is showing off Gears of War, PS3 counter with Uncharted... The console is also pushed by exclusive titles, this is why Nintendo is popular, not because the Wii is innovative. For those of us really appreciate games, multiple consoles are the key drivers to innovation.
This is correct. There is no comparison when it comes to exclusives & dev support on the PS3 & Wii vs the 360. Sony (20+) & Ninty (I think 10+) have more inhouse & exclusive devs making a variety of games/genres while MS has I believe 3...3 exclusive inhouse devs. They rely on 3rd party multiplatform games which doesn't exactly help with variety and when they do get an exclusive it is usually a timed one.


Originally posted by TrinUK:
You claimed there is an abundance of exclusive titles for each consoles when clearly this is not the case and it is a fact that gaming sales have dropped for that very reason. People are bored with shooters and war game sequels and kids cannot play those games either!....And for 2011.... Another line up of shooters
Gnawnivek's claim about an abundance of exclusives is based on fact. If you don't see them that does not make it true. I can sorta agree there are people who are bored with shooters but it must be from the 360 side more than the PS3/Wii camps because as I just explained above there are WAAAAY more devs making WAAAAY more varied games for the PS3/Wii than the 360. As for game sequels there is no greater than Mario but people don't really tire of that now do they? But that is neither here nor there I guess.

I do agree there is a HUGE amount of shooters this year but I think it just happened to work out that way not purposely planned or designed by Activision, EA, Epic, Crytek, Guerilla Games, Naughty Dog, Insomniac & who ever else. This year looks to be the year of the "3" ~ Killzone 3, Gears 3, Uncharted 3, Resistance 3...and while these are all sequels they are great franchises with enthralling story lines and exciting gameplay that have quite a following so if certain people aren't in to them no big deal right? They can just buy/play something else of interest that is available!
meh!

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

2813.2.2011 16:11

Originally posted by Deadrum33:
Originally posted by coorva:
i guess sony like to be at the bottom of console sales
#1 WII 1million sold
#2 DS 900.000 sold
#3 XBOX 800.000 sold
#4 APPLE IPOD 700.000 sold
#5 sony ???
One of these things is not like the others...
Love it!!! Very funny stuff!

2913.2.2011 16:22

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:
Forget PS3 sales. The machine is over hyped and a failure. I spent a lot of money on it hoping for great things and I wish I hadn't bothered. Blu ray players are so cheap now so it really doesn't justify the price for a PS3.

The Xbox 360 is a better machine only let down by the RROD saga. I think if MS get it right in the next console without any hardware problems, Sony may be in big trouble.

The same happened with Sega when they failed to deliver on the Saturn. I have a feeling the console wars will draw to a close in the not too distant future as game sales have declined(lack of ideas) and the market is very stale.
Wow, just because you bought the PS3 at launch price ($600, that's what your comment sounded like), it doesn't mean the console is a hyped failure. Where have you been since the PS3's launch? The BD players are cheaper now, so does the PS3 price :)

The Xbox is the Xbox, saying if MS don't have RRoD problem, it probably kill the PS3 is like saying if Nintendo had gone with Sony's disc idea it would have killed the PS1. It's silly... Let there be competition, it's good for the consumers. Do I want to see MS fail? No! Do I want to see Sony fail? No! I don't want to see PC or Nintendo gaming fail either. I like choices, brand loyalty is just plain stupidity that stretch beyond infinity.

I root for hackers too, but for their intelligence, determination and curiosity, not for their arrogance, immaturity and cowardice.

Why attack the character of a hacker? These are rebels with a cause. It is the nature of every human to rebel against things they don't like.

"In all your getting, get an understanding!"

Dell Dimension DIM4600 Intel P4 CPU 2.66GHz 2.5GB-DDR 160GB-HDD Primary 80GB-HDD Slave Memorex 16x DL -/+RW Burner JLMS DVD-ROM XJ-HD166 WinXP Home Edition SP3

3013.2.2011 21:06

Originally posted by YOBUZZB:

Why attack the character of a hacker? These are rebels with a cause. It is the nature of every human to rebel against things they don't like.
That's correct, it's in our nature to rebel against things we don't like. I didn't attack the character of the hackers, I basically said what I like about them and what I don't like about them. Every rebel has cause, every drop of blood and sweat have cause, heck, every seconds and keyboard click have cause... But let's face it, we're no different from blinded sheep if we just simply root for every cause. Remember, we don't like a lot of things, but we still continue to live as civilized beings because certain core values are our cause.

3113.2.2011 22:05

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by YOBUZZB:

Why attack the character of a hacker? These are rebels with a cause. It is the nature of every human to rebel against things they don't like.
That's correct, it's in our nature to rebel against things we don't like. I didn't attack the character of the hackers, I basically said what I like about them and what I don't like about them. Every rebel has cause, every drop of blood and sweat have cause, heck, every seconds and keyboard click have cause... But let's face it, we're no different from blinded sheep if we just simply root for every cause. Remember, we don't like a lot of things, but we still continue to live as civilized beings because certain core values are our cause.
Since when does he say that all causes should be supported no matter how ridiculous they are?

Is that how you win arguments, by exaggerating, misrepresenting, minimising, maximising... all wrapped up in a nice patronising tone?

Your gonna have to do better than that... this is afterdawn.com.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

3213.2.2011 22:24

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by YOBUZZB:

Why attack the character of a hacker? These are rebels with a cause. It is the nature of every human to rebel against things they don't like.
That's correct, it's in our nature to rebel against things we don't like. I didn't attack the character of the hackers, I basically said what I like about them and what I don't like about them. Every rebel has cause, every drop of blood and sweat have cause, heck, every seconds and keyboard click have cause... But let's face it, we're no different from blinded sheep if we just simply root for every cause. Remember, we don't like a lot of things, but we still continue to live as civilized beings because certain core values are our cause.
Since when does he say that all causes should be supported no matter how ridiculous they are?

Is that how you win arguments, by exaggerating, misrepresenting, minimising, maximising... all wrapped up in a nice patronising tone?

Your gonna have to do better than that... this is afterdawn.com.
Come on people...it's not that serious. However, I will say this is not a conversation where there's a winner or loser. It's ok to share one's thoughts. You'll find some who'll agree with them and some who'll disagree. What we can agree on, is that Sony isn't going to get their act together, with the consumer in mind, anytime soon.

"In all your getting, get an understanding!"

Dell Dimension DIM4600 Intel P4 CPU 2.66GHz 2.5GB-DDR 160GB-HDD Primary 80GB-HDD Slave Memorex 16x DL -/+RW Burner JLMS DVD-ROM XJ-HD166 WinXP Home Edition SP3

3313.2.2011 23:32

Originally posted by YOBUZZB:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by YOBUZZB:

Why attack the character of a hacker? These are rebels with a cause. It is the nature of every human to rebel against things they don't like.
That's correct, it's in our nature to rebel against things we don't like. I didn't attack the character of the hackers, I basically said what I like about them and what I don't like about them. Every rebel has cause, every drop of blood and sweat have cause, heck, every seconds and keyboard click have cause... But let's face it, we're no different from blinded sheep if we just simply root for every cause. Remember, we don't like a lot of things, but we still continue to live as civilized beings because certain core values are our cause.
Since when does he say that all causes should be supported no matter how ridiculous they are?

Is that how you win arguments, by exaggerating, misrepresenting, minimising, maximising... all wrapped up in a nice patronising tone?

Your gonna have to do better than that... this is afterdawn.com.
Come on people...it's not that serious. However, I will say this is not a conversation where there's a winner or loser. It's ok to share one's thoughts. You'll find some who'll agree with them and some who'll disagree. What we can agree on, is that Sony isn't going to get their act together, with the consumer in mind, anytime soon.
Your right. Actually, I wasn't meaning to be serious, just tongue-in-cheek. People bicker all the time on AD, :)

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

3414.2.2011 12:02

Originally posted by Jemborg:

Is that how you win arguments, by exaggerating, misrepresenting, minimising, maximising... all wrapped up in a nice patronising tone?

Your gonna have to do better than that... this is afterdawn.com.
May I ask what was the argument? Yeah, the one I was accused of starting or defending? There wasn't none, lol.

Exaggerating? How?
Misrepresenting? What?
Minimizing? Who?
Maximizing? Where?

Patronizing tone? Yeah, that's because we're the rebels, how else one starts a revolution?

3514.2.2011 12:07

I feel a nuclear war coming on.....

The question is who will launch first?


Trin - Making Digital Waves

3614.2.2011 13:20

Nuclear war is inevitable... All it needs is a command or press of button (probably neither if you hack it). And guess what triggers such command? That's right, our noble cause...

We don't like how the products are sold to us, so we hack them. Most of us use the knowledge for the good of the products, but some of us do the opposite (use the knowledge for personal gains). The question is, what's our cause? Has it always been personal gains?


Peace!

3714.2.2011 13:50

Read my previous comment- I was just kidding about. I apologise.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

3814.2.2011 14:55

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Read my previous comment- I was just kidding about. I apologise.
I'm not really mad at anybody, no apologies necessary, peace :)

Peace!

3915.2.2011 5:42

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Nuclear war is inevitable... All it needs is a command or press of button (probably neither if you hack it). And guess what triggers such command? That's right, our noble cause...

We don't like how the products are sold to us, so we hack them. Most of us use the knowledge for the good of the products, but some of us do the opposite (use the knowledge for personal gains). The question is, what's our cause? Has it always been personal gains?
Do you know what I find really frustrating? We have all the hardware at the ready in various shapes, sizes and speeds. we have many emulators but we don't have a specially designed operating system to merge all this into one great multi gaming platform. example - a quick loading standard boot bios like the Dreamcast or Xbox360. Hyperspin and MAME are really good but would be better if they were a full OS.

Trin - Making Digital Waves

4015.2.2011 5:49

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Nuclear war is inevitable... All it needs is a command or press of button (probably neither if you hack it). And guess what triggers such command? That's right, our noble cause...

We don't like how the products are sold to us, so we hack them. Most of us use the knowledge for the good of the products, but some of us do the opposite (use the knowledge for personal gains). The question is, what's our cause? Has it always been personal gains?
I think America (CIA) or should I use their Synonym "Al-Qaeda" will drop a homemade nuke between now and 3 years. Likely targets? UK Olympics and a city in the US. Then they blame Iran and attack it all guns blazing.

Trin - Making Digital Waves

4115.2.2011 11:06

Originally posted by TrinUK:

Do you know what I find really frustrating? We have all the hardware at the ready in various shapes, sizes and speeds. we have many emulators but we don't have a specially designed operating system to merge all this into one great multi gaming platform. example - a quick loading standard boot bios like the Dreamcast or Xbox360. Hyperspin and MAME are really good but would be better if they were a full OS.
I'm with you, but such is life, lol. There can't be a magic box that does everything and pleases everybody. If such box exists, I don't think we need sites like AD, no? :) What's interesting is that if such box do get produced, people will demand for individualism and the cycle repeats. Simply put, we cannot be pleased :) Our insatiable desire to satisfy ourselves is so remarkable that we're beyond the infinity of stupidity. Whatever happen to enjoy the simple things in life? Like watch a dvd/BD instead of backing it up in vain, like spending time to play the actual games rather than finding ways to patch unplayable backups?

I have no comments to TrinUK's other post, err, I don't want to say anything rather, lol. TrinUK, you're BOLD :)

Peace!

4215.2.2011 11:47

I still don't see how or why they should have any say over what you do with hardware you paid for. Sure I see their right to go after the game piracy but...It seems a lot like outlawing mp3 players cause people might be putting pirated music on them. Sure they'd love to be able to do that but no one would stand for it. Why is this any different?





Just my $0.02,

dEwMe

4315.2.2011 12:33

@dEwMe (Reply button doesn't work, lol)

Quote:

I still don't see how or why they should have any say over what you do with hardware you paid for. Sure I see their right to go after the game piracy but...It seems a lot like outlawing mp3 players cause people might be putting pirated music on them. Sure they'd love to be able to do that but no one would stand for it. Why is this any different?

Nope, they don't really have any saying over what you do with the hardware you paid for. So, yeah, you don't really have any saying over what they want to do with the modding instructions you didn't pay for either :)

People are forgetting that the PS3 is tied to the PSN service. By modding the PS3, PSN service is compromised. While people own the PS3 console, but they don't own PSN. See, people who mod their PS3s will not stop until the modded console can be connected to PSN seamlessly like the registered consoles do. When that happens, nothing stops you from stealing, cheating and ultimately destroying everything most of us enjoy.

Do I enjoy my account or prepaid PSN credits being hijacked by some calculated algorithms?
How about playing an online match where the opponents are invincible?

Again, I've no quarrels with hacked/modded offline consoles, but as soon as PSN's security is threatened, I expect Sony to step up the plate and do something.

Peace!

4415.2.2011 15:16

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
@dEwMe (Reply button doesn't work, lol)

Quote:

I still don't see how or why they should have any say over what you do with hardware you paid for. Sure I see their right to go after the game piracy but...It seems a lot like outlawing mp3 players cause people might be putting pirated music on them. Sure they'd love to be able to do that but no one would stand for it. Why is this any different?

Nope, they don't really have any saying over what you do with the hardware you paid for. So, yeah, you don't really have any saying over what they want to do with the modding instructions you didn't pay for either :)

People are forgetting that the PS3 is tied to the PSN service. By modding the PS3, PSN service is compromised. While people own the PS3 console, but they don't own PSN. See, people who mod their PS3s will not stop until the modded console can be connected to PSN seamlessly like the registered consoles do. When that happens, nothing stops you from stealing, cheating and ultimately destroying everything most of us enjoy.

Do I enjoy my account or prepaid PSN credits being hijacked by some calculated algorithms?
How about playing an online match where the opponents are invincible?

Again, I've no quarrels with hacked/modded offline consoles, but as soon as PSN's security is threatened, I expect Sony to step up the plate and do something.
PSN isn't so much hardware, as it is software. Yes they have the right to protect that because you're paying for a service but the hardware is mine to do with as I please and they don't have the right to tell me what I can or cannot do with what I own. I do, however, agree with your point regarding online play. Someone made a point of whether or not the cause is for personal gain. I'd say that for most, at least on some level, it's all about personal gain. There are the few that think of the greater good for all consumers but we're all trying to build a better mouse trap for our own enjoyment first, then share it.

"In all your getting, get an understanding!"

Dell Dimension DIM4600 Intel P4 CPU 2.66GHz 2.5GB-DDR 160GB-HDD Primary 80GB-HDD Slave Memorex 16x DL -/+RW Burner JLMS DVD-ROM XJ-HD166 WinXP Home Edition SP3

4515.2.2011 20:43

Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Originally posted by TrinUK:

Do you know what I find really frustrating? We have all the hardware at the ready in various shapes, sizes and speeds. we have many emulators but we don't have a specially designed operating system to merge all this into one great multi gaming platform. example - a quick loading standard boot bios like the Dreamcast or Xbox360. Hyperspin and MAME are really good but would be better if they were a full OS.
I'm with you, but such is life, lol. There can't be a magic box that does everything and pleases everybody. If such box exists, I don't think we need sites like AD, no? :) What's interesting is that if such box do get produced, people will demand for individualism and the cycle repeats. Simply put, we cannot be pleased :) Our insatiable desire to satisfy ourselves is so remarkable that we're beyond the infinity of stupidity. Whatever happen to enjoy the simple things in life? Like watch a dvd/BD instead of backing it up in vain, like spending time to play the actual games rather than finding ways to patch unplayable backups?
What about the challenge of hacking these systems? You might consider it infinitely stupid but it a relatively simple source of pleasure for these guys.

@ TrinUK, it won't happen, it would defeat the purpose of creating gaming systems in the first place. Check out the positive remarks regarding the benefits of competition in the previous posts on this thread.

In regards to Iran- seen the news lately? Rioting in the streets of Tehran... again. The US aren't likely to invade a country undergoing popular revolution. Better and cheaper to support the discontent fermenting- a la Egypt.

Iran before the English installed puppet Shar was a forward go-getting "western orientated" place. Completely unlike what it is like now. If the US were to invade they would reverse the unrest and firmly unite the population against them. Utter stupidity!

If and when democracy returns to Iran the US will adopt a "wait and see" policy. Especially since their CIA seem to have no idea what is going on anywhere anyway as per; they were completely taken aback by unexpected post election rioting last year.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

4627.11.2016 21:01

ray ban glasses
ugg sale
fitflop uk
moncler sale
fitflops sale clearance
ray ban glasses
michael kors outlet clearance
christian louboutin shoes
celine outlet
michael kors handbags
burberry outlet online
coach factory outlet
canada goose clothing
ugg outlet
toms sale
air jordan shoes
ugg outlet
ugg sale
nike roshe run
cheap air max shoes
moncler coats
ugg boots
true religion jeans
ugg uk
michael kors handbags
michael kors handbags
adidas trainers
louis vuitton outlet online
cheap ugg boots
north face
ralph lauren
uggs on sale
ugg boots uk
true religion jeans
coach outlet store online
doudoune canada goose
ralph lauren kids
chaussures ugg
michael kors outlet
ugg boots
ugg outlet
polo outlet
pandora bracelet
minnesota vikings jerseys
ed hardy clothing
true religion
gucci handbags
toms outlet
coach outlet
gucci belts
tiffany jewelry
coach outlet store online clearances
timberland outlet
fitflops
michael kors outlet online
ray ban sunglasses
christian louboutin sale
jordan femme
mulberry uk
adidas nmd r1
louis vuitton handbags
toms shoes
air jordan shoes
adidas yeezy boost 350
oakley sunglasses
louis vuitton handbags
nike outlet store
ralph lauren
canada goose outlet
gucci outlet online
cheap tory burch handbags
cheap jordan shoes
nike tn pas cher
hilfiger jeans
giuseppe zanotti sneakers
hollister clothing store
oakley sunglasses outlet
the north face outlet
canada goose outlet
michael kors handbags
louboutin uk
hollister clothing
polo ralph lauren outlet
discount rolex watches
fitflop sandals
abercrombie kids
michael kors outlet online
christian louboutin outlet
ugg boots
ugg boots clearance
canada goose outlet
coach outlet store online clearances
louis vuitton handbags
louis vuitton outlet stores
ray ban eyeglasses
uggs outlet online
ray ban outlet
burberry sale
pandora bracelet
chanel handbags
cheap ugg boots
fitflops
louis vuitton outlet stores
mbt shoes clearance
mcm outlet
louis vuitton outlet
cheap ugg boots
coach outlet online
uggs for sale
jordan shoes
christian louboutin pas cher
jordan retro 12
canada goose outlet
polo ralph lauren
the north face outlet
mbt outlet store
adidas outlet store
gucci outlet online
ralph lauren polo
canada goose parka
canada goose coats
chanel handbags
michael kors outlet online
christian louboutin shoes
cheap rolex watches
ugg australia
hollister kids
cincinnati bengals jerseys
ray ban sunglasses
coach outlet online
cheap ray bans
adidas originals zx flux
louis vuitton handbags
canada goose coats
toms shoes
the north face
cheap ray ban sunglasses
adidas nmd shoes
toms shoes
mlb jerseys cheap
louis vuitton pas cher
celine bags
polo ralph lauren
ugg boots uk
michael kors outlet
ugg boots
uggs pas cher
kate spade sale
canada goose jackets
adidas superstar
ugg slippers on sale
ray ban sunglasses
ugg clearance
abercrombie and fitch new york
adidas yeezy boost 350
uggs outlet
coach outlet online
louboutin outlet
ugg sale
abercrombie kids
pandora charms
air jordan
washington wizards jerseys
coach outlet online
lunettes ray ban
new england patriots jerseys
nike trainers
cheap nba jerseys
coach outlet
sac longchamp
ugg boots
christian louboutin shoes
tiffany and co
nike roshe run 3
tod's shoes outlet
canada goose outlet
moncler outlet
oakley sunglasses outlet
nike air max pas cher
ugg outlet
hollister clothing
louis vuitton outlet
ugg canada
louis vuitton
the north face jackets
ray ban sunglasses
ugg outlet
adidas nmd
christian louboutin sale
boston celtics jerseys
adidas shoes
longchamp le pliage
pandora rings
hockey jerseys
nike outlet
tory burch outlet
coach factory outlet
chicago bulls jerseys
adidas yeezy boost 350
rolex watches outlet
gucci outlet store
ugg outlet online
retro jordans
true religion jeans outlet
polo ralph lauren
air max 90
moncler outlet
nike basketball shoes
michael kors outlet
seattle seahawks jerseys
canada goose jackets clearance
coach factory outlet
ugg outlet
san antonio spurs jerseys
gucci belts
mont blanc pens
coach outlet store online
louis vuitton outlet stores
nike roshe run flyknit
cheap ray ban sunglasses
michael kors outlet
burberry handbags
cheap jordan retro
nfl jerseys
canada goose clothing
red bottoms
tiffany and co jewelry
coach factory outlet
ugg outlet
nike roshe run
ugg boots
michael kors handbags clearance
moncler jackets
canada goose sale
stivali ugg
coach outlet store online
cheap louis vuitton bags
coach outlet online
air max 90
ugg boots
louis vuitton
cheap oakley sunglasses
ugg slippers
moncler pas cher
ugg boots
fitflop shoes
coach handbags
pandora charms outlet
ugg uk
seattle seahawks jerseys
louis vuitton
cheap ugg boots
coach outlet
ray ban glasses
cheap toms shoes
ugg outlet
tory burch sale
michael kors outlet
ugg outlet
fitflops shoes
burberry scarf
louis vuitton handbags
oakley sunglasses
uggs outlet
cheap jordan shoes
cheap louis vuitton
prada handbags
ugg outlet
ugg uk
canada goose uk
oakley sunglasses canada
louis vuitton outlet stores
ugg outlet store
ralph lauren outlet online
canada goose sale
canada goose outlet
louis vuitton outlet stores
michael kors handbags
adidas outlet store
ugg australia
los angeles clippers jerseys
canada goose jackets
uggs uk
rolex watches
cheap ray ban sunglasses
cheap nfl jerseys
uggs outlet
canada goose online
uggs outlet
cheap ugg boots
miami heat jerseys
ugg boots outlet
coach factory outlet online
ugg australia
ralph lauren shirts
ray ban glasses
louis vuitton handbags
cleveland cavaliers jerseys
canada goose sale
hermes scarf
louis vuitton purses
coach outlet
true religion outlet
michael kors outlet online
ugg outlet
oklahoma city thunder jerseys
kate spade handbags
ray bans
christian louboutin sale
michael kors bags
louis vuitton sac
adidas shoes
ugg uk
supra sneakers
rolex watches for sale
louis vuitton outlet stores
polo ralph lauren
coach outlet store online
moncler sale
oakley vault
uggs outlet
doudoune moncler
ugg boots
kate spade outlet
true religion jeans
jordan 11
golden state warriors jerseys
scarpe hogan
toms outlet
cheap ugg boots
ugg boots clearance
replica watches
cheap nhl jerseys
louis vuitton handbags
louis vuitton outlet stores
pandora jewelry
coach outlet store online
michael kors outlet clearance
moncler coats
louboutin femme
cheap oakley sunglasses
christian louboutin paris
cheap oakley sunglasses
rolex watches
michael kors outlet
pittsburgh steelers jerseys
coach outlet store online clearances
air max sale
fitflop shoes
oakley sunglasses outlet
polo shirts
louis vuitton outlet
louboutin shoes
uggs on sale
louboutin shoes
jordan retro
canada goose outlet
coach factory outlet
coach factory outlet
kate spade outlet
timberland boots
coach outlet online
michael kors handbags
louis vuitton outlet
ugg outlet online
kate spade handbags outlet
hermes outlet
christian louboutin sale
gucci handbags
louis vuitton outlet
denver broncos jerseys
louis vuitton purses
cheap jordans
oakley sunglasses
replica rolex watches
new york knicks jerseys
louis vuitton handbags
nba jerseys shop
oakley sunglasses outlet
mont blanc
ugg boots
louis vuitton outlet online
true religion
prada outlet
mont blanc pens cheap
tommy hilfiger outlet
ugg boots
louis vuitton outlet
adidas yeezy boost 750
louis vuitton outlet online
ralph lauren polo shirts
ugg sale
uggs sale
longchamp handbags
cheap ray ban sunglasses
timberland boots
mont blanc pens
mlb jerseys
polo ralph lauren uk
cheap ray ban sunglasses
cheap jerseys
ugg boots
ugg boots uk
tory burch outlet online
prada handbags
michael kors handbags
canada goose coats
gucci outlet online
beats by dre
true religion outlet
moncler coats
coach outlet online
toms shoes
ugg italia
dallas mavericks jerseys
canada goose sale
ray ban wayfarer
air jordan shoes
timberland boots outlet
oakley sunglasses
hollister kids
borse louis vuitton
2016.11.28chenlixiang

Comment this article

News archive