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Geohot insults Sony, but denies any involvement with PSN breach

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 28 Apr 2011 22:47 User comments (55)

Geohot insults Sony, but denies any involvement with PSN breach Not that he really had, George "Geohot" Hotz has denied all involvement with the recent PSN security breach.
For our latest coverage on the hack that got 77 million people's personal info stolen, check here: Sony sees first lawsuit over massive PSN security hack

Taking some parting shots at Sony but denying all involvement, Geohot wrote out a long blog post.

Hotz recently settled with Sony over a lawsuit for his involvement in creating custom firmwares for the PS3 that allow for homebrew.

Writes Hotz:

To start, I sure am glad I don't have a PSN account about now. And, as a onetime victim of identity theft, I feel for everyone who's data has been stolen. I'm not going to make cracks at Sony for flipping a shit when /their/ data is compromised, and not even having the decency to apologize when it's your data that's misappropriated.

And to anyone who thinks I was involved in any way with this, I'm not crazy, and would prefer to not have the FBI knocking on my door. Running homebrew and exploring security on your devices is cool, hacking into someone elses server and stealing databases of user info is not cool. You make the hacking community look bad, even if it is aimed at douches like Sony.

One of the things I was contemplating back in early January was a PSN alternative, a place for jailbroken consoles to download homebrew and game without messing up anyone else's experience. Unfortunately events led me off of that path, but gamers, if I had succeeded you would have a place to game online with your PS3 right now. I'm one of the good guys. I used to play games online on PC, I hated cheaters then and I hate them now.

Also, let's not fault the Sony engineers for this, the same way I do not fault the engineers who designed the BMG rootkit. The fault lies with the executives who declared a war on hackers, laughed at the idea of people penetrating the fortress that once was Sony, whined incessantly about piracy, and kept hiring more lawyers when they really needed to hire good security experts. Alienating the hacker community is not a good idea.

Now until more information is revealed on the technicals, I can only speculate, but I bet Sony's arrogance and misunderstanding of ownership put them in this position. Sony execs probably haughtily chuckled at the idea of threat modeling. Traditionally the trust boundary for a web service exists between the server and the client. But Sony believes they own the client too, so if they just put a trust boundary between the consumer and the client(can't trust those pesky consumers), everything is good. Since everyone knows the PS3 is unhackable, why waste money adding pointless security between the client and the server? This arrogance undermines a basic security principle, never trust the client. It's the same reason MW2 was covered in cheaters, Activision even admitted to the mistake of trusting Sony's client. Sony needs to accept that they no longer own and control the PS3 when they sell it to you. Notice it's only PSN that gave away all your personal data, not Xbox Live when the 360 was hacked, not iTunes when the iPhone was jailbroken, and not GMail when Android was rooted. Because other companies aren't crazy.

And let's talk about Sony's use of the word illegal. It is illegal, criminally so, to break into someone else's servers. But when the same word is used to refer to streaming a song from a non RIAA approved website, or to *gasp* playing a homebrew game on your PS3, respect for the word and those who say it is lost.

Weighing in quickly on the whole hacker vs cracker thing. I am a hacker. Whoever did this were hackers also. The media will never start using the word cracker. To me, a hacker is just somebody with a set of skills; hacker is to computer as plumber is to pipes. And the same ethics should apply, if you want to mess with the pipes in your own house, go for it. But don't go breaking into people's houses and messing with their pipes. (Note that I do not endorse water piracy)

To the perpetrator, two things. You are clearly talented and will have plenty of money(or a jail sentence and bankruptcy) coming to you in the future. Don't be a dick and sell people's information. And I'd love to see a write up on how it all went down...lord knows we'll never get that from Sony, noobs probably had the password set to '4' or something. I mean, at least it was randomly generated.

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55 user comments

128.4.2011 23:12
saintaqua
Unverified new user

What a bitter person he is.
Yeah, Sony messed up, but so did this jerk.
I hope this set of hackers who did this pay dearly and in prison.
I hope Geo and those maggots at Anon grow up and stop screwing with other people's stuff.

The hackers are 80% to blame in this.

228.4.2011 23:25

@ saintaqua - Hackers are not to blame in this - sony started this whole mess - if you buy a ps3 you should be able to do whatever you want with it. Homebrew is an option to any ps3 owner and shouldn't be considered illegal by any means. The creators should by no means be taken to court. Whoever hacked all those usernames, passwords, cc numbers... etc shouldn't have done so... but you can't put the blame on the hackers.

328.4.2011 23:52

I seem to remember a case brought up against Nintendo many many years ago in regards to what the consumer could do with the NES cartridges once they were purchased. I believe that Nintendo stated that it was still their property and that you really were only leasing it. The case was eventually judged in favor of the consumer and it was stated that if you wanted to use your NES cartridge to steady a wobbly table, then you had all rights as a consumer to do so.

The advent of EULA has changed many aspects of this scenario, but at the end of the day, the consumer should be able to decide what they want to do with whatever product that their hard earned dollars purchased.

If this means rooting/jailbreaking/homebrew, then so be it.

429.4.2011 0:25

@SaintAqua
Geohot made no mistakes and it is unfair to accuse him of so. For someone who doesn't know about the story other than what the media said let me make an easier to understand analogy for you... set in caveman days!

Geohot invents a knife, which is great, people can now cut their food more easily, cook in more inventive ways and whittle wood into cool little toys. Geohot tells everyone about this useful and fun invention he himself created with materials that he owned and others did the same and enjoyed the benefits. As they do he makes sure to tell them, "Hey these could hurt someone if used the wrong way so don't go around stabbing people, I don't condone that sort of thing and neither should you". But of course as the invention spreads some people decide to use it for illegal reasons which is out of Geohot's hands and clearly not his fault. Though it was his invention that was used, it was clearly not made to do that, and had many other legitimate legal uses.
Knife=Homebrew enabling hack
Stabbing=Illegal use (pirated games etc)
Make any more sense now?

529.4.2011 3:49

Originally posted by JonEleven:
@SaintAqua
Geohot made no mistakes and it is unfair to accuse him of so. For someone who doesn't know about the story other than what the media said let me make an easier to understand analogy for you... set in caveman days!

Geohot invents a knife, which is great, people can now cut their food more easily, cook in more inventive ways and whittle wood into cool little toys. Geohot tells everyone about this useful and fun invention he himself created with materials that he owned and others did the same and enjoyed the benefits. As they do he makes sure to tell them, "Hey these could hurt someone if used the wrong way so don't go around stabbing people, I don't condone that sort of thing and neither should you". But of course as the invention spreads some people decide to use it for illegal reasons which is out of Geohot's hands and clearly not his fault. Though it was his invention that was used, it was clearly not made to do that, and had many other legitimate legal uses.
Knife=Homebrew enabling hack
Stabbing=Illegal use (pirated games etc)
Make any more sense now?

I think the analogy is close but not truly representative. I would suggest to be correct the knife is what Sony made and everyone else that purchased one from Sony. In turn Geohot found ways to modify and utilize the knife in new and different ways and shared it with others for free.

The one problem I can see with this, not that I agree with it is the terms of use of the device, the PS3 for this matter, and i'll be the first to say i've not read the end user license. If it says something like you are bound to the terms Sony lays down and you accept these terms by connecting your PS3 to the PS3 network... The Sony, good or bad has a case, much like software you never purchase it, while you may physically possess it, technically you more than often only have a lease and bound by the company's terms if you decide to use a company's software.

The one point i think some users clearly have a valid case for going after Sony is the removal of functionally if that is a contributing factor of why people purchased a PS3, saw one user demanding a refund for the loss of functionality because of upgrading the PD3's ROM....

Honestly i feel sorry for sony's users but also for sony as they use to be a company i liked a lot of their products. Seems in the end there will be no winners everyone will simply lose and nothing good will come out of this. Full of Fail for everyone involved.

629.4.2011 6:05

The homebrew/OtherOS/CFW hacking crowd warned sony (and everyone) that they were mishandling CC information in dangerous and pointless ways...maybe some hackers used that information to steal information...but Sony should have used that information to secure their servers and processes...and they didn't. It was their mistake in design, and it was their lack of action that caused the disaster. Then, it was their delayed announcement that likely caused a lot of CC fraud and identity theft.

...and Sony can't even sue anyone this time, because this is being done by criminals...and criminals don't post their names and addresses online with their work. All this time attacking innocent developers like Graf has left Sony unable to combat a real enemy.



729.4.2011 10:08
lissenup3
Inactive

Originally posted by saintaqua:
What a bitter person he is.
Yeah, Sony messed up, but so did this jerk.
I hope this set of hackers who did this pay dearly and in prison.
I hope Geo and those maggots at Anon grow up and stop screwing with other people's stuff.

The hackers are 80% to blame in this.


First off, you're a goof and second, your head is up your arse. Third, this comment is sincerely without merit as "bitterness" wasn't really in this article. It was more along the lines of a defense of himself, clarifying hacker from cracker and how he honors the integrity of the hacker community regarding what it's "supposed to do". One can't blame him for not liking Sony as Sony NO MATTER WHAT truly has no ground or justification for attacking people that compromise their own OWNED AND PURCHASED Playstation.

Next time rethink your meritless comment.

829.4.2011 13:18

Just came across this post by someone that makes a lot of reasonable sense ~

Quote:
Geohot is a hacker..he does it to make thing's do what they were not meant to do.

Im a Hacker myself. but here is where me an him differ..I follow Prudence he does not. How do i know Simple really.

He did not follow the Law of prudence:

He may say it's mine I can do anything i want with it, while i agree with that..but as soon as you post what you did online it's no longer about just you it's now about US

ie: everyone else.

Now you can say freedom of Information an all which i think freedom of speech is great you have a a due conviction to follow prudence in what you do.

Linux was allowed on the PS3 with Restrictions, that you as the end user cannot have direct access to the PS3's GPU..the developer's an Publisher's have to pay for that privilage.

Last time i check that is the right of the creator to decide that not the consumer.

Sony had too their part of their income stream is licence development developer's it's the same if people were using Epic's unreal game engine you have to pay for it.

Investors would expect Sony to protect that.
I really find it funny how Sony allowed Homebrew, Emulators and more via OtherOS and because GeoHot wanted MORE (RSX etc) and pushed Sony to take action to protect themselves, people got pissed at Sony when they should be mad at GeoHot. WE ALL HAD THE ABILITY TO USE OTHER OS AND IT'S CAPABILITIES AS IT STOOD BEFORE HE DID WHAT HE DID. Sony had absolutely no problems with ANYONE doing whatever they did with OtherOS. This comes down to PIRACY and that is what certain people don't have the balls to admit in public because they want to hide behind "consumer rights". PERIOD.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 13:27

929.4.2011 13:30

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by JonEleven:
@SaintAqua
Geohot made no mistakes and it is unfair to accuse him of so. For someone who doesn't know about the story other than what the media said let me make an easier to understand analogy for you... set in caveman days!

Geohot invents a knife, which is great, people can now cut their food more easily, cook in more inventive ways and whittle wood into cool little toys. Geohot tells everyone about this useful and fun invention he himself created with materials that he owned and others did the same and enjoyed the benefits. As they do he makes sure to tell them, "Hey these could hurt someone if used the wrong way so don't go around stabbing people, I don't condone that sort of thing and neither should you". But of course as the invention spreads some people decide to use it for illegal reasons which is out of Geohot's hands and clearly not his fault. Though it was his invention that was used, it was clearly not made to do that, and had many other legitimate legal uses.
Knife=Homebrew enabling hack
Stabbing=Illegal use (pirated games etc)
Make any more sense now?

I think the analogy is close but not truly representative. I would suggest to be correct the knife is what Sony made and everyone else that purchased one from Sony. In turn Geohot found ways to modify and utilize the knife in new and different ways and shared it with others for free.

The one problem I can see with this, not that I agree with it is the terms of use of the device, the PS3 for this matter, and i'll be the first to say i've not read the end user license. If it says something like you are bound to the terms Sony lays down and you accept these terms by connecting your PS3 to the PS3 network... The Sony, good or bad has a case, much like software you never purchase it, while you may physically possess it, technically you more than often only have a lease and bound by the company's terms if you decide to use a company's software.

The one point i think some users clearly have a valid case for going after Sony is the removal of functionally if that is a contributing factor of why people purchased a PS3, saw one user demanding a refund for the loss of functionality because of upgrading the PD3's ROM....

Honestly i feel sorry for sony's users but also for sony as they use to be a company i liked a lot of their products. Seems in the end there will be no winners everyone will simply lose and nothing good will come out of this. Full of Fail for everyone involved.

Screw terms of agreement... I understand that they're there to secure game content and ensure no theft takes place. I don't think a single gamer reads the EULA. It's 40 pages of lawyer bullcrap. Now I don't know this for a fact but I'm pretty sure that no where in the EULA does it specify that once you purchase a game console you're technically leasing it from the corporation and can't modify it in any way shape or form. Next thing you know you can't add cooling fans because oh shit you've just violated a license agreement.

The whole thing has just gotten ridiculous. Sony messed with the wrong people and those people perhaps took things too far but in the end I personally think if you're selling a product the consumer should have the right to do whatever they please with that product otherwise the gun industry I'm sure would be facing a lot more manslaughter charges. :D

1029.4.2011 13:40

Originally posted by matt75371:
Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Originally posted by JonEleven:
@SaintAqua
Geohot made no mistakes and it is unfair to accuse him of so. For someone who doesn't know about the story other than what the media said let me make an easier to understand analogy for you... set in caveman days!

Geohot invents a knife, which is great, people can now cut their food more easily, cook in more inventive ways and whittle wood into cool little toys. Geohot tells everyone about this useful and fun invention he himself created with materials that he owned and others did the same and enjoyed the benefits. As they do he makes sure to tell them, "Hey these could hurt someone if used the wrong way so don't go around stabbing people, I don't condone that sort of thing and neither should you". But of course as the invention spreads some people decide to use it for illegal reasons which is out of Geohot's hands and clearly not his fault. Though it was his invention that was used, it was clearly not made to do that, and had many other legitimate legal uses.
Knife=Homebrew enabling hack
Stabbing=Illegal use (pirated games etc)
Make any more sense now?

I think the analogy is close but not truly representative. I would suggest to be correct the knife is what Sony made and everyone else that purchased one from Sony. In turn Geohot found ways to modify and utilize the knife in new and different ways and shared it with others for free.

The one problem I can see with this, not that I agree with it is the terms of use of the device, the PS3 for this matter, and i'll be the first to say i've not read the end user license. If it says something like you are bound to the terms Sony lays down and you accept these terms by connecting your PS3 to the PS3 network... The Sony, good or bad has a case, much like software you never purchase it, while you may physically possess it, technically you more than often only have a lease and bound by the company's terms if you decide to use a company's software.

The one point i think some users clearly have a valid case for going after Sony is the removal of functionally if that is a contributing factor of why people purchased a PS3, saw one user demanding a refund for the loss of functionality because of upgrading the PD3's ROM....

Honestly i feel sorry for sony's users but also for sony as they use to be a company i liked a lot of their products. Seems in the end there will be no winners everyone will simply lose and nothing good will come out of this. Full of Fail for everyone involved.

Screw terms of agreement... I understand that they're there to secure game content and ensure no theft takes place. I don't think a single gamer reads the EULA. It's 40 pages of lawyer bullcrap. Now I don't know this for a fact but I'm pretty sure that no where in the EULA does it specify that once you purchase a game console you're technically leasing it from the corporation and can't modify it in any way shape or form. Next thing you know you can't add cooling fans because oh shit you've just violated a license agreement.

The whole thing has just gotten ridiculous. Sony messed with the wrong people and those people perhaps took things too far but in the end I personally think if you're selling a product the consumer should have the right to do whatever they please with that product otherwise the gun industry I'm sure would be facing a lot more manslaughter charges. :D
Right On !

1129.4.2011 13:48

But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 13:50

1229.4.2011 14:11

Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
Depends if you have a Class 3 Firearm permit, which are really easy to get.

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1329.4.2011 14:56
lissenup3
Inactive

I totally disagree with ANYONE that believes that just because Sony "created" the system that it's immoral or "not right" to modify the OS.

With that mentality.......we should NEVER put gas other than the rated octane in our cars because the manfr. said so......NOT

....we should never root our phones.....NOT

....we should tinker nor attempt to improve upon ANYTHING that is sold to us because the manfr said so.

That's a Stalinistic way of looking at life and frankly a clear indication that those that think this way should have their decision making ability stripped.

Plain and simple....product was made, sold and bought. Ownership means just that....OWNED and hence one may do WHATEVER the F they want with what they paid hard earned money for.

Sheople......Sad world we live in. Stay objective people!!

1429.4.2011 14:58

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
Depends if you have a Class 3 Firearm permit, which are really easy to get.
100% True. Though I wouldn't call them "easy to get" but for this discussion it fits as you would have to pay fees and follow steps by applying for a Class 3 which would then allow you to modify the gun...thus, in turn, it's no different than say paying for a developers licence then now isn't it? It's actually a very good analogy when you think of it.

@ lissenup3 you are FAR from being "objective". You are being closed minded and hard headed/stubborn for whatever reason. You do not "own", support, nor created the software. You "own" the hardware that is it. Nobody is saying you cannot do whatever you want with what is your IN THE PRIVACY OF YOUR HOME. But when you take it upon yourself to leak or use STOLEN intellectual copyrighted property of others to the public there are consequences.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 15:10

1529.4.2011 15:09

Excellent point Oner, your analogy of a gun and modifying it for full auto, or possibly a silencer (thus external) fits perfectly.

On the other hand, sure some of these licenses are easily obtainable when following the process... Then again talk to my friend of mine that ordered stuff for which he had all the proper permits for. Now from time to time he has FBI agents searching everything at his house, office, car...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 15:16

1629.4.2011 15:10

Some would argue that the law preventing you from modifying a weapon is also wrong. It is a good analogy.

As for the EULA, you can put anything you want in there. That doesn't make it legal.
You cannot put things which are illegal into a EULA and that means that if the court says that when you buy a Playstation you OWN that playstation no amount of EULA lawyer speak can change that.

What is really the issue here is the law that lets companies like Sony get away with this crap. It should CLEARLY be illegal to SELL you a product and then claim that the EULA says you are only leasing it, but the stupid government won't do what is right and is instead doing what the corps are telling them to do.

That is why stuff like this happens. People are tired of getting the shaft and are showing their wrath in acts of civil disobedience. It's not going to stop here, I fear.

1729.4.2011 15:16

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
Excellent point Oner, being true to the facts at hand your analogy fits perfectly.
TY

Originally posted by ThePastor:
Some would argue that the law preventing you from modifying a weapon is also wrong.
VERY good point, but then you are getting into 2nd amendment rights or how the laws are there to really penalize criminals who make illegal guns fully auto and a whole other side issue of which detracts from the base point of the analogy about how you can legally do things without hurting yourself, others & companies.

Think about it...if you have the ability to do something legally then why do it illegally if you have the capability? Again just like how we had OtherOS for homebrew, emulators and such only for someone to get it removed to later bitch about it all while not even acknowledging you were the specific reason it was taken away.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 15:23

1829.4.2011 15:35

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
Depends if you have a Class 3 Firearm permit, which are really easy to get.
100% True. Though I wouldn't call them "easy to get" but for this discussion it fits as you would have to pay fees and follow steps by applying for a Class 3 which would then allow you to modify the gun...thus, in turn, it's no different than say paying for a developers licence then now isn't it? It's actually a very good analogy when you think of it.
except under your analogy there's a governing body that makes getting permit affordable, Sony's developers licensing is nothing short of bullshit. its like 3 grand per seat, and what upstart dev has 3 grand to blow on chance? you could buy $3000 worth scratch off tickets with more of a chance to come out ahead.

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1929.4.2011 16:01

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
Depends if you have a Class 3 Firearm permit, which are really easy to get.
100% True. Though I wouldn't call them "easy to get" but for this discussion it fits as you would have to pay fees and follow steps by applying for a Class 3 which would then allow you to modify the gun...thus, in turn, it's no different than say paying for a developers licence then now isn't it? It's actually a very good analogy when you think of it.
except under your analogy there's a governing body that makes getting permit affordable, Sony's developers licensing is nothing short of bullshit. its like 3 grand per seat, and what upstart dev has 3 grand to blow on chance? you could buy $3000 worth scratch off tickets with more of a chance to come out ahead.
This might be where the analogy breaks down a little, but in turn if i look at the different options for rifle scopes, there were only a couple that provided some of the features i desired, in turn i bought one scope with a very specific reason, now i get a inch grouping at 300 yards :)

My point? It is a free market to purchase what you desire for what matches your goals. If you're a developers then you can choose what systems you'll port your games to. Don't like the ante for that system, then select another.

2029.4.2011 16:10

Sony is 100% responsible for this for one reason and one reason only. When you sign the ToS and EULA, then give your information for the exchange of playing online, you are trusting the company to protect said information.

Sony can not in good consciousness or validate with actual evidence to the fact that they did all they could to protect against an attack. Nor did they in a reasonably timely manner brief the public and the trusted governments of each nation whom had identity theft taken place due to this incident.

Worse, FBI is now probing an investigation into Sony and hackers both, to determine if Sony could have done anything to protect the consumers months ago, when it first new about an intrusion.

You can blame hackers you want, but at the end of the day, these corporations are meant to protect data the VERY minute they agreed to take it. There are laws set up in every country to protect consumers against this kind of threat, and Sony clearly violated a few of them. Which exactly those laws that were violated per country is currently an on-going investigation.

That said, for any of those that had their credit cards compromised: if you were smart and got insurance for your card, then even if you were one of the victims that feel through to fraud charges on your card, your credit card company should and would reimburse the difference and mail you a new card to help prevent this from happening again to which they advise like Sony has, to change your password just in case.

No matter what happens from here on out, one thing will be certain. Sony lost a lot of public trust in one of the worst data loss of the century, and nobody will forget. Other companies will be glad they user tighter security measures and will look to tightening it further knowing that relying on EULAs, ToSs and lawyers alone, gets you no where.

2129.4.2011 16:33

Originally posted by SomeBozo:
This might be where the analogy breaks down a little...
That is the problem with analogies...


Originally posted by Mysttic:
Sony can not in good consciousness or validate with actual evidence to the fact that they did all they could to protect against an attack. Nor did they in a reasonably timely manner brief the public and the trusted governments of each nation whom had identity theft taken place due to this incident....

You can blame hackers you want, but at the end of the day, these corporations are meant to protect data the VERY minute they agreed to take it. There are laws set up in every country to protect consumers against this kind of threat, and Sony clearly violated a few of them. Which exactly those laws that were violated per country is currently an on-going investigation.
I do blame the hackers. If they didn't do what they did, the data would have been fine as it was. As far as the timely response matter I posted about that in another thread ~

Source
Quote:
"I wanted to take this opportunity to clarify a point and answer one of the most frequently asked questions today.

There’s a difference in timing between when we identified there was an intrusion and when we learned of consumers’ data being compromised. We learned there was an intrusion April 19th and subsequently shut the services down. We then brought in outside experts to help us learn how the intrusion occurred and to conduct an investigation to determine the nature and scope of the incident. It was necessary to conduct several days of forensic analysis, and it took our experts until yesterday to understand the scope of the breach. We then shared that information with our consumers and announced it publicly this afternoon."

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 16:34

2229.4.2011 16:54

I see the hackers who were responsible for stealing the data as a part of the problem. With that in mind I don't think anonymous is to blame for any of this. Granted that anonymous brought this issue into bigger light they are not the culprit. I agree with ThePastor that the consumers are getting really tired of getting shafted by these huge corporations. Video game prices are through the roof and the consoles to play them aren't getting any cheaper either. Putting the price rant aside :D the whole issue comes down to whether or not you are free to do what you wish with a product you paid for. In my opinion you are and if you agree with that then sony is in the wrong. If you disagree and think that the computer you're visiting this website with is still ownership of the manufacturer (dell, asus what have you) and that installation of linux on your system or on any other hardware (routers, phones... etc) is illegal then sony is right. In my eyes if you think that... you should probably visit a local hospital and get registered for an MRI scan. :P


Visit a new political discussion community at www.politicalyak.com

2329.4.2011 17:34

Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
We're not talking about a firearm here. The same could be spoken in proper context of an automobile (although taking a PS3 out for a spin is probably still a bit out of the question). After purchasing the car, you can modify it to the n'th degree. There is no repercussions other than those that have a warranty on the modifying parts.

What I believe has gotten out of hand over all (in the whole scheme of things here) is that Greed has believed itself to have full control over human beings and not the situation.

Sony & corporations like them need to stop trying to control the human factor & try to maintain control over their situations; otherwise this continuous over-swing of the pendulum is going to find itself becoming a propeller of doom.

2429.4.2011 17:39

Originally posted by matt75371:
I see the hackers who were responsible for stealing the data as a part of the problem. With that in mind I don't think anonymous is to blame for any of this. Granted that anonymous brought this issue into bigger light they are not the culprit. I agree with ThePastor that the consumers are getting really tired of getting shafted by these huge corporations. Video game prices are through the roof and the consoles to play them aren't getting any cheaper either. Putting the price rant aside :D the whole issue comes down to whether or not you are free to do what you wish with a product you paid for. In my opinion you are and if you agree with that then sony is in the wrong. If you disagree and think that the computer you're visiting this website with is still ownership of the manufacturer (dell, asus what have you) and that installation of linux on your system or on any other hardware (routers, phones... etc) is illegal then sony is right. In my eyes if you think that... you should probably visit a local hospital and get registered for an MRI scan. :P
actually console prices have really remained static since the NES days. my NES Brand new with Laser gun, Arcade Pad,and SMB\Duckhunt ran right about $150 if you calculate modern inflation that's about $400 bucks.

games are so expensive because of licensing fee's you have the developer licensing fee's depending on your size and whom your are developing for this can range from $1500.oo all the way up to a million bucks. you have a fee tagged on to every sale last i heard it was almost 25 bucks, then you have demography to worry about Pal/NTSC etc. then after all that you have give the Publisher a percentage of the remainder.

at the end of the day what are you the man/woman that poured his/her heart into the art the wanted to share with the world left with? not as much as you think.



Powered By

2529.4.2011 17:44

LMFAO!

Hotz is not only funny, but right in so many ways lol. I've got nothing to argue about haha


Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.
Flash any hitachi

2629.4.2011 17:57

Originally posted by matt75371:
I see the hackers who were responsible for stealing the data as a part of the problem. With that in mind I don't think anonymous is to blame for any of this. Granted that anonymous brought this issue into bigger light they are not the culprit. I agree with ThePastor that the consumers are getting really tired of getting shafted by these huge corporations. Video game prices are through the roof and the consoles to play them aren't getting any cheaper either. Putting the price rant aside :D the whole issue comes down to whether or not you are free to do what you wish with a product you paid for. In my opinion you are and if you agree with that then sony is in the wrong. If you disagree and think that the computer you're visiting this website with is still ownership of the manufacturer (dell, asus what have you) and that installation of linux on your system or on any other hardware (routers, phones... etc) is illegal then sony is right. In my eyes if you think that... you should probably visit a local hospital and get registered for an MRI scan. :P
If this was Facebook I would 'like' this. :)




IMPORTANT: If you hate Sony for being so corrupt, copy this image into your signature too!

2729.4.2011 18:14

Sony have given away all our details and I hope that Mastercard and Visa go after Sony for any loses. But it will be me and you who get shafted as the big boys close ranks and blame us for poor passwords and security.

2829.4.2011 18:22

Hackers are not responsible for this at all.

One can start an argument or problem but not be responsible for the outcome.

This is a perfect example. Hackers created a situation and Sony did a pi$$ poor job of handling it.

they should have just stuck with banning hacked consoles online and be done with it. However, Sony failed yet again with security. So hacking PS3 consoles would lead to security breaches and Sony knew this but wouldn't admit to it.

Sony should have allowed the OtherOS but spent much less money then making it more secure. They are looking to spend BILLIONS now with the mess they have gotten into. They also should have allowed a third OS (OtherOS - 1, GameOS - 2). The third OS would be for homebrew. A tightly secured environment for people to play in and create their own stuff including games if so desired. Internet access to user created online environments for whatever purpose the user chooses to create.

Hire a team of top of class programmers, say about 20, and a top of class security team of about 20 and pay them 100k for a 6 month contract and amazing things can happen. You are talking 4 million bucks, that alone has probably been spent 10 fold on all the raids, lawyer fees and online searching for "illegal content".

I actually was thinking of buying a Sony Android tablet but not after the past several months and Sony's behavior.

2929.4.2011 18:37

this twat started the whole thing just go away you fame hungry nob. homebrew is just a load of old crap the real reason for the hack is to play pirated games.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2011 @ 18:59

3029.4.2011 20:31

we have a winner!

my ps3 is still virgin. i barely play games. spend more time playing around with user creations on the computer. thanks.

homebrew on wii is huge. lots to choose from. xbox i do not know and do not care.

ps2 will go down in history books as biggest pirated console. that hurts this scene more than anything.

and i am not quite sure how posting here gains me any fame. grow up.

3129.4.2011 23:46

going with PC gaming,less bullsh**t and crysis 2 is going to pc,,




microsoft after a ban wave

3230.4.2011 0:33

Originally posted by LordRuss:
Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
We're not talking about a firearm here. The same could be spoken in proper context of an automobile (although taking a PS3 out for a spin is probably still a bit out of the question). After purchasing the car, you can modify it to the n'th degree. There is no repercussions other than those that have a warranty on the modifying parts.

What I believe has gotten out of hand over all (in the whole scheme of things here) is that Greed has believed itself to have full control over human beings and not the situation.

Sony & corporations like them need to stop trying to control the human factor & try to maintain control over their situations; otherwise this continuous over-swing of the pendulum is going to find itself becoming a propeller of doom.
Wouldn't the most logical analogy be a computer? After all, this is all we want...the capabilities that you get with a PC...or at least some of the more basic ones. Can't play a video on your PC? Download some freeware and it plays just fine. Want to stop disk swapping? Download daemon tools. Feel like playing some old abandonware? It downloads in seconds with a modern connection.


3330.4.2011 3:17

Originally posted by budro:
LMFAO!

Hotz is not only funny, but right in so many ways lol. I've got nothing to argue about haha
I agree. Hotz know how far he can carried himself !

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

3430.4.2011 9:51

Ya know I think this is all fallout from $ony being "Unhackable" for so long. Turns out the PS3 wasn't and neither was PSN. I wonder if $ony has shaken off their mindset of being "Unhackable" now? Or maybe we'll see where they get hit next?


Just my $0.02,

dEwMe

3530.4.2011 11:27

Originally posted by dEwMe:
Ya know I think this is all fallout from $ony being "Unhackable" for so long. Turns out the PS3 wasn't and neither was PSN. I wonder if $ony has shaken off their mindset of being "Unhackable" now? Or maybe we'll see where they get hit next?

Sony never thought this would happen. As a massive company, it should be common sense that anything can happen. Sony cut corners in security, everybody knows that and shame to Sony for it.
Come on, all my personal info, not encrypted? Are you kidding me?

3630.4.2011 12:25

ok everyone has had their chance to weigh in now its my turn .. : first .."Geohot" created a tool to make a product that he bought not rented or lease ( leased means he could bring it back and get another even if it breaks Sony wont take it back unless its in a very small window or has extended warrenty) so it was his to do what he wants . the same goes for anyone with a deisel motor who wants to run fry grease in it, its theirs. enuff said on that..second Sony had all our info and it was just sitting there for someone to come along and take it... ( wonder if they fired anyone at Sony with that clearance...?) oh , come on it was just sitting there... unprotected are they crazy or are we for trusting them...3rd so the thief waits 2 years and releases all our info to the wild who pays then Sony gave you free stuff so they are off the hook and the consumer is left holding the bag yet again .. and we exspect any diffrent outcome ... really are we all alittle bit mad........

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Apr 2011 @ 12:26

3730.4.2011 13:10

Originally posted by core2kid:
Originally posted by dEwMe:
Ya know I think this is all fallout from $ony being "Unhackable" for so long. Turns out the PS3 wasn't and neither was PSN. I wonder if $ony has shaken off their mindset of being "Unhackable" now? Or maybe we'll see where they get hit next?

Sony never thought this would happen. As a massive company, it should be common sense that anything can happen. Sony cut corners in security, everybody knows that and shame to Sony for it.
Come on, all my personal info, not encrypted? Are you kidding me?

I agree 100% with you personal data should not be in the clear and always encrypted.

What i'm waiting for that concerns me, we all have probably called tech support for an issue to put up with someone as stupid with a bad accent as one here in the U.S... Anyway I'm certain many companies that are medical, financial, or anything else that carries sensitive data will never have as much respect for the data as they are nearly completely removed from any accountability, and these companies either let personal information out or have security breach too...

3830.4.2011 13:21

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by LordRuss:
Originally posted by Oner:
But you can't modify the gun to shoot fully automatic as that's illegal now isn't it? You can add parts either internally and externally to customize it to your liking/needs to an extent, but when it crosses a line of which that is not within the law anymore you are doing something illegal. That seems to be the better analogy in this case.
We're not talking about a firearm here. The same could be spoken in proper context of an automobile (although taking a PS3 out for a spin is probably still a bit out of the question). After purchasing the car, you can modify it to the n'th degree. There is no repercussions other than those that have a warranty on the modifying parts.

What I believe has gotten out of hand over all (in the whole scheme of things here) is that Greed has believed itself to have full control over human beings and not the situation.

Sony & corporations like them need to stop trying to control the human factor & try to maintain control over their situations; otherwise this continuous over-swing of the pendulum is going to find itself becoming a propeller of doom.
Wouldn't the most logical analogy be a computer? After all, this is all we want...the capabilities that you get with a PC...or at least some of the more basic ones. Can't play a video on your PC? Download some freeware and it plays just fine. Want to stop disk swapping? Download daemon tools. Feel like playing some old abandonware? It downloads in seconds with a modern connection.
neither would be good analogy really. yes you can mod a car all you want but that does not mean you can drive it on public streets. as for a pc they are made to be modded by upgrading parts and software. and by using software made by companys that did not make the pc. sony made the ps3 to run only what they said could be ran on it. the ps3 is a closed unit.

3930.4.2011 13:54

Sony is arrogant to think that they wouldn't lose any funds/money from any kind of computer threat. I'm beginning to believe that their understanding is, "So what if the plebes lose their little paltry sums... Let them fumble about re-locating their identities. We are ____ (whoever the upper echelons are), we don't have to lower ourselves to such manual tacks."

Maybe that sounds snotty on my behalf, but for some of you guys starting out in life and some of you guys that have forked over a boat load of cash for our kids online crap over the years like I have, you just might be getting tired of this shit.

Geohot is an ego maniac with a keyboard: hell, so am I. Check out the blog if you don't think so. Russell's World

But I don't condone anarchy against human rights, just stupidity.

You "can" run the car on the road and you "can" run the software on the computer and you "can" run "whatever" you want on the PS3... you "can NOT" be STUPID about it. NOTHING is a "closed" system. Thus the previous statement, "Sony & corporations like them need to stop trying to control the human factor..."

If they want to completely control their device (PS3) then they shouldn't sell it to begin with. Curiosity (just like their propensity for Greed) can not be squelched. Therefore people are always going to want to know the 4W's & H to the inner workings.

Anything done outside a "closed unit's" warranty is considered exclusionary. No manufacturer will give you the time of day when it comes to repairs on most devices when a warranty is out. Otherwise the repair incurred is so astronomical it merits purchasing a new device anyway. Which leads to idle hands with the broken original during down time.

Aaahh... This deserves a Blog... I'll try to have that out by Sunday morning US time... This is just too good. Thanks guys.


4030.4.2011 14:25
Zoo_Look
Inactive

Ultimately, I will be glad when this guy stops media-whoring the internet. There are far more worthy causes for you all to argue about you know!

4130.4.2011 15:58

@lordruss
dont think you can take grave digger down to the store for some milk. well you could but i dont think the cops would like it and you would find yourself i some trouble. dont think they would like a stockcar on the road. also i never said you could not! i said it was not ment! big differents.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Apr 2011 @ 20:51

4230.4.2011 17:56

Originally posted by cazer:
@lordruss
dont think you can take grave digger down to the store for some milk. well you could but i dont think yhe cops would like it and you would find yourself i some trouble. dont think they would like a stockcar on the road. also i never said you could not! i said it was not ment! big differents.
True, very true. I would venture a guess that I would garner a LOT of attention. I'm just bringing out a bit more of the ethics to morals debate. Morals get in the way because of how folks are 'brought up'. Ethics get a huge 'bad rap' because they tend to look radical in their solutions. Most solutions tend to be 'after the fact' and not proactive, thus the 'radical' appearance.

No harm meant in any of the comments, just food for thought from an old man.

4330.4.2011 22:28

@senator29 not even bothered about your post I'm on about the story.

441.5.2011 12:57

What Geohot does not seem to understand is that Sony spent a huge amount of money to develop and bring the PS3 to market. They did this hoping to recoup their investment and make a profit.

Clearly the PS3 would not exist without Sony's effort and Geohot, who's mind only works withing the parameters of breaking and exploiting someone else's ideas does not seem to grasp that he really does not have the right to jailbreak anything or even offer alternatives to PSN.

Who the hell is he even? I get that he has a certain gift for finding vulnerabilities in systems. But what does that have to do with taking someone else's creation and attempting to steal their idea/product and make it into his own vision. He simply doesnt want to understand that he doesnt have the right to do what he is doing, and his point of view falls flat in light of this fact.

If you don't like the PS3, don't buy it. Gather investors and design and launch a console of your own. IF YOU CAN.

And, by the way, In my observations of how people use jailbroken systems...it's usually to play stolen software of games like call of duty or any other blockbusters that they don't want to pay for. There really isnt any major community created software that everyone is dying to get. The purpose of Homebrew is to pirate software or to use the PS3 in a manner that deprives Sony ( who created the PS3 so that it may benefit from said creation, they didn't do it as a charitable contribution to the world - much like nobody goes to work without getting a pay check ) of any revenues they have worked hard to create.

So grow up and get off that B.S. guy. Use your talents in a more productive fashion and own up to the fact that you have been behaving like a thief and an intellectual thug. Learn to create, rather than break. Make something so that this world can benefit from you having been here.

451.5.2011 13:46

The car analogy is the best one.

If you buy a car you are not allowed to modify it. You own it but you are not allowed to modify it. All of you will agree here...

But that is not true. Because laws of ownership say that it is your car and you can do with it whatever you wish. You can modify the motor in any way you want. You can put racing slick tires on, rip the smog crap off, modify the computer chip for more power, paint naked ladies on the side, whatever you wish.
What you CANNOT do is then drive that vehicle on the network of streets. The streets are a managed network which is in this case, public and the government says that to use that network of streets you must be licensed and if you don't follow their rules then you cannot use those streets.
You can modify your car any way you want, but if you want a license you must follow the rules.
BIG DIFFERENCE HERE.

It's the same with Sony. You SHOULD be able to modify your console in anyway you wish. You bought it, you own it. Do whatever you want. If Sony then says that your modified console is not allowed to use their network then that is their prerogative.
BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO SAY IN WHAT YOU CAN OR CANNOT DO TO YOUR CONSOLE. Only the ability to allow or not allow you on their network.

Rules that say you are not allowed to drive a modified vehicle on the streets are only as valid as the governments are able to enforce. If there are no cops to give you a ticket, if there is no DMV to force you to get inspections, then their rules mean nothing. But they can and do inspect you. They enforce their rules.

What Sony wants is to not have to enforce their rules. They are saying that if you modify your console then they are unable to enforce their rules. It gives you the ability to "drive on their network" with modified devices and they don't want that but they don't have a way to ENFORCE that rule so they try to say that you cannot modify YOUR device. That's not right! It's on THEM to enforce those rules, not on the police or on you.

Up till now Sony has felt that their network was in their complete control so they had no need for security between the console and the network. What Geohot (and others) are proving is that the Sony network is not secure and that Sony had better put some security in place or shut the hell up about the whole matter. It is on SONY to secure their network. They've had it far too easy for far too long.

This debate is not just a Sony debate. This issue will set precedence that will have very long and far reaching consequences.
I could care less about Sony and their hackable network, but I care how this pans out because I own many devices which use networks. I'd like to think I'm not going to get tossed into jail because I acquired root access on my Android phone. Do I own my phone? Do I own my TV? Do I own my PC? Or does the manufacturer own it and can they prevent me from doing what I want to it?

It's a very important question, and not just because it's Sony.

461.5.2011 15:36

@The Pastor, That's a really good argument. However, it fails to look squarely at one difference between a car and a computer...

They are not exactly the same thing. While you can use laws and arguments regarding cars to begin to structure a set of rules governing the PS3. Both of these items (a car and a PS3) are not exactly the same. There are fundamental differences in how they can be utilized and what purpose they serve, and in how they are meant to return the investment/value to the producer of said item.

Just because effective policing of the PS3 network doesnt exist, doesnt mean that it's okay to exploit Sony or any other company in this manner. These activities are still not legal.

Period. And the activities/hacks/mods of the hackers arent there for research/informational purposes. They are there for deprivation of revenue, stealing of intellectual properties, etc. In short, they arent trying to prove any point. They are just encouraging piracy.

They are behaving like criminals. Period.

471.5.2011 17:21

Originally posted by Oner:
Just came across this post by someone that makes a lot of reasonable sense ~

Quote:
Geohot is a hacker..he does it to make thing's do what they were not meant to do.

Im a Hacker myself. but here is where me an him differ..I follow Prudence he does not. How do i know Simple really.

He did not follow the Law of prudence:

He may say it's mine I can do anything i want with it, while i agree with that..but as soon as you post what you did online it's no longer about just you it's now about US

ie: everyone else.

Now you can say freedom of Information an all which i think freedom of speech is great you have a a due conviction to follow prudence in what you do.

Linux was allowed on the PS3 with Restrictions, that you as the end user cannot have direct access to the PS3's GPU..the developer's an Publisher's have to pay for that privilage.

Last time i check that is the right of the creator to decide that not the consumer.

Sony had too their part of their income stream is licence development developer's it's the same if people were using Epic's unreal game engine you have to pay for it.

Investors would expect Sony to protect that.
I really find it funny how Sony allowed Homebrew, Emulators and more via OtherOS and because GeoHot wanted MORE (RSX etc) and pushed Sony to take action to protect themselves, people got pissed at Sony when they should be mad at GeoHot. WE ALL HAD THE ABILITY TO USE OTHER OS AND IT'S CAPABILITIES AS IT STOOD BEFORE HE DID WHAT HE DID. Sony had absolutely no problems with ANYONE doing whatever they did with OtherOS. This comes down to PIRACY and that is what certain people don't have the balls to admit in public because they want to hide behind "consumer rights". PERIOD.
Your response is so effing retarded it hurts! So by you little minded thinking...because blu-ray has been cracked and can be copied, burned to disc, redistributed and play in the PS3, Sony should turn off the blu-ray feature of the PS3. After all BR is Sony media eggnest.

Ah Pot, I'd like to introduce you Kettle. He's black.

Sony and their left and right hand shenanigans. Its almost funny really if it didn't produce such dire consequences.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 01 May 2011 @ 17:27

481.5.2011 18:12

And yet I see no real valid response in discussion to anything about what I actually said ~ just a couple of insults (as usual) and something I never said...


491.5.2011 18:15

Originally posted by Tastylord:
What Geohot does not seem to understand is that Sony spent a huge amount of money to develop and bring the PS3 to market. They did this hoping to recoup their investment and make a profit.

Clearly the PS3 would not exist without Sony's effort and Geohot, who's mind only works withing the parameters of breaking and exploiting someone else's ideas does not seem to grasp that he really does not have the right to jailbreak anything or even offer alternatives to PSN.

Who the hell is he even? I get that he has a certain gift for finding vulnerabilities in systems. But what does that have to do with taking someone else's creation and attempting to steal their idea/product and make it into his own vision. He simply doesnt want to understand that he doesnt have the right to do what he is doing, and his point of view falls flat in light of this fact.

If you don't like the PS3, don't buy it. Gather investors and design and launch a console of your own. IF YOU CAN.

And, by the way, In my observations of how people use jailbroken systems...it's usually to play stolen software of games like call of duty or any other blockbusters that they don't want to pay for. There really isnt any major community created software that everyone is dying to get. The purpose of Homebrew is to pirate software or to use the PS3 in a manner that deprives Sony ( who created the PS3 so that it may benefit from said creation, they didn't do it as a charitable contribution to the world - much like nobody goes to work without getting a pay check ) of any revenues they have worked hard to create.

So grow up and get off that B.S. guy. Use your talents in a more productive fashion and own up to the fact that you have been behaving like a thief and an intellectual thug. Learn to create, rather than break. Make something so that this world can benefit from you having been here.
First of all--$ony charged a large amount of money for the first generations of the PS3. They sold their idea for cash!!!!!!!! NEVER FORGET that the PS3 was only the next incarnation of their best selling system PS2-this was inevitable !! It is just a beefed up version of their last system-it wasn't brain surgery to build their version when most of the machine was already built with the PS2. As far as your observations-1) most people I know (including myself) who own a PS3 don't want homebrew to play stolen or hijacked games like Call Of Duty (??!??). They/I want it to be able to use the machine as AS IT WAS ADVERTISED when they/I paid an exorbitant amount of money for it ($600.00 for the 60 gig version, which I happen to own) when it was sold to them/me. 2)-There isn't any major homebrew software to clamor for because $ony simply won't allow us to use the system AS IT WAS ADVERTISED !! NEVER FORGET-$ONY SOLD THE MACHINE AS A GAME SYSTEM WITH HOME COMPUTER CAPABILITIES. It seems that everyone who has a soft spot for $ony seems to forget this fact !! When I bought my machine(as I'm sure that most if not all other people who bought it) only want what they paid for-no more-no less. No everyone is a thief who want to jailbreak their system to steal games-it is so small minded of $ony to even entertain this thought. Most people are honest hard working people who are willing to pay for something that they feel that they(once purchased) want and can modify just about anyway they want to. And for the people who do play illegally acquired games-they might not be so apt to do this if games (which a good deal of them either suck or are a rip-off time wise) didn't cost so much. Anyone who thinks just for a second or two knows that $ony isn't making a charitable contribution and they deserve payment for services rendered, but don't think that people aren't going to get hot under the collar when they are told one thing about something they bought and then the manufacturer decides that they don't like how the people use it. So instead of pulling the high and mighty routine by telling people to grow up and get off of the B.S., maybe you should take the time to put yourself in someone else's shoes and see how you might feel getting ripped off by a giant conglomerate who thinks that they are above reproach and can do whatever they want,whenever they want ! P.S. As for $ony making a profit or not it's because they pull crap like this and secondly, they suck at marketing their products(look at their Mini-disc systems-but that's a whole other story!!!).

501.5.2011 18:24

One more thing I'd like to say is that in all fairness, and I'm pretty sure I speak for 99% of the world, is that when one buys a PS3, we were thinking about the games and multimedia capabilities of the device. We wanted to be able to stream movies and listen to music, and watch blue-ray and MOST OF ALL - PLAY GAMES, in a manner that is easier to do than with a PC, but with the same level of sophistication of a PC game.

The 'OTHER OS' option that some people are making a deal about and trying say justifies abusing the PSN network and the rest of us legitmate users who are unable to enjoy our systems is really a geeky side note that most people cant give two ass-farts about.

Who the heck cares if you can run linux on a PS3? It's cool to know you can, but you can't access your PS3 games or purchased content from within linux. You have to choose one or the other. And we want a PS3, not a linux computer with no accelerated video.

I can put Ubuntu on my PC, or even an old PC, get the full functionality of linux and enjoy my PS3.

So big deal, they took out the 'other os' option. who really gives a dang anyway...

The PS3 and the XBOX deliver huge value to the consumer which previously were only imagined but not reality. I've owned them both since they first came out, and still I can't stop loving those devices. They are one of the reasons I love living in these times, and not in the 1940s, 50s, 60s and so on. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

Hackers should put their obvious good intellect and talent to more beneficial purposes, rather than acting like dweebs. And the hacker community should start policing itself too.

These people who bring down networks and steal are really the catalysts which make DRM, Encryption, and so on necessary. They are the reason that consumers who are willing to get their things in a legitimate fashion have to deal with all these additional restrictions we otherwise may not have.

511.5.2011 23:22

Originally posted by Oner:
And yet I see no real valid response in discussion to anything about what I actually said ~ just a couple of insults (as usual) and something I never said...
if you are talking about post 8 hackers always want more. its fine if they want to know how it works. but they want the whole world to know that they can hack so they tell everyone. people by nature are greedy and want more. sony wanted the ps3 to only do what they wanted it to do. they did not have to give us otherOS but they did. since hackers have been trying to hack the ps3 sony felt they had to remove otherOS to stop them from using it as a tool.as far as the piracy part i think i went over that in a nother thread. i have to say i agree with you on it all.
if you are talking about post 11 that one is a little hard. first you need to find something that you can compare. to me cars and guns are ment to be modded. they have a ton of after market parts for them. i think you need to look at dvd players or tv's something that does not have a ton of aftermarket parts for it.
but thats just me.

522.5.2011 13:07

Originally posted by cazer:
Originally posted by Oner:
And yet I see no real valid response in discussion to anything about what I actually said ~ just a couple of insults (as usual) and something I never said...
if you are talking about post 8 hackers always want more. its fine if they want to know how it works. but they want the whole world to know that they can hack so they tell everyone. people by nature are greedy and want more. sony wanted the ps3 to only do what they wanted it to do. they did not have to give us otherOS but they did. since hackers have been trying to hack the ps3 sony felt they had to remove otherOS to stop them from using it as a tool.as far as the piracy part i think i went over that in a nother thread. i have to say i agree with you on it all.
if you are talking about post 11 that one is a little hard. first you need to find something that you can compare. to me cars and guns are ment to be modded. they have a ton of after market parts for them. i think you need to look at dvd players or tv's something that does not have a ton of aftermarket parts for it.
but thats just me.
It was a reply to post 47 directly above my comment that quoted me specifically.

532.5.2011 23:30

Originally posted by Oner:
Originally posted by cazer:
Originally posted by Oner:
And yet I see no real valid response in discussion to anything about what I actually said ~ just a couple of insults (as usual) and something I never said...
if you are talking about post 8 hackers always want more. its fine if they want to know how it works. but they want the whole world to know that they can hack so they tell everyone. people by nature are greedy and want more. sony wanted the ps3 to only do what they wanted it to do. they did not have to give us otherOS but they did. since hackers have been trying to hack the ps3 sony felt they had to remove otherOS to stop them from using it as a tool.as far as the piracy part i think i went over that in a nother thread. i have to say i agree with you on it all.
if you are talking about post 11 that one is a little hard. first you need to find something that you can compare. to me cars and guns are ment to be modded. they have a ton of after market parts for them. i think you need to look at dvd players or tv's something that does not have a ton of aftermarket parts for it.
but thats just me.
It was a reply to post 47 directly above my comment that quoted me specifically.
my bad. i didnt pay that much attention to that post. it doesnt really compare very well since blu ray is about 50% or more of the ps3 and with out it sony would have to go back to dvd,cd or just download

542.5.2011 23:57

Originally posted by saintaqua:
What a bitter person he is.
Yeah, Sony messed up, but so did this jerk.
I hope this set of hackers who did this pay dearly and in prison.
I hope Geo and those maggots at Anon grow up and stop screwing with other people's stuff.

The hackers are 80% to blame in this.

Yeah GeoHot is bitter all right, considering he wasn't the one who stole all of that personal info. And how did GeoHot mess up, exactly? Because if I recall correctly, he made available a CFW for PS3 in response to Sony removing the 'Install Other OS' feature. Not only that, he also revealed PS3's security key, and as far I can tell, both the CFW and the root key work FREAKIN GREAT. So tell me how he messed up again?

Normally, I don't care who gets the first post in an article, but why you?


553.5.2011 18:25

Originally posted by Ofnir1:
Originally posted by saintaqua:
What a bitter person he is.
Yeah, Sony messed up, but so did this jerk.
I hope this set of hackers who did this pay dearly and in prison.
I hope Geo and those maggots at Anon grow up and stop screwing with other people's stuff.

The hackers are 80% to blame in this.

Yeah GeoHot is bitter all right, considering he wasn't the one who stole all of that personal info. And how did GeoHot mess up, exactly? Because if I recall correctly, he made available a CFW for PS3 in response to Sony removing the 'Install Other OS' feature. Not only that, he also revealed PS3's security key, and as far I can tell, both the CFW and the root key work FREAKIN GREAT. So tell me how he messed up again?

Normally, I don't care who gets the first post in an article, but why you?
GeoHot is the specific reason OtherOS was removed. GeoHot gave up on Hacking the PS3 because he couldn't do it, to only get back into it when someone stole a service stick from Sony and reverse engineered it. HE DIDN'T HACK ANYTHING. Nothing. HE didn't hack the PS3 with HIS own code that HE wrote. GeoHot then revealed Copyrighted Intellectual Property (security key) of which was not his because he threw a tantrum. Then to top it all off when he knew he was going to lose, he copped a plea and settled. All of which lead to consumer accounts being compromised in his name....pffft ~ Yeah he did sooooo much for consumer rights.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 May 2011 @ 18:27

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