AfterDawn: Tech news

ABC shows off harsh working conditions at Foxconn

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 22 Feb 2012 19:51 User comments (55)

ABC shows off harsh working conditions at Foxconn Last night, ABC had a Nightline special which reported on the working conditions in the Foxconn plants at Shenzhen and Chengdu.
Each supply plant makes Apple products like the iPad and iPhone. The special, which was only 17 minutes long, confirmed what many already believed; that workers are extremely overworked and underpaid.

Mashable has collected a great amount of facts from the report, some of which are pretty shocking. For the most part, however, the conditions were not as horrible as most media would have you believe.

First, each worker makes $1.78 per hour, and live in a cramped dorm room on the factory's campus for $17 per month. Each worker has seven roommates. Lunch costs $0.70 for meat and rice, and each worker gets two one-hour meal breaks during their 12-hour shift.

To create just one iPad, it takes five days and 375 people. However, workers can make 300,000 iPad cameras for the device in just two 12-hour shifts. Some workers create the aluminum exterior design (with Apple logo) at the rate of about 10,000 per hour.

Some workers were as young as 13, but most were in their late teens, said the report.

Despite the conditions, the report showed 3000 youths lining up outside the factory hoping for work. Foxconn expects to hire 2400 of them as demand for Apple products remains through the roof.

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55 user comments

122.2.2012 19:59

Wow, after reading about this article I feel more confident in Apple products and can't wait to get my iPad 3 now that I know little kids are making my product.

... sarcasm just for those think I would get an iPad. I rather get an iPhone 5...haha

222.2.2012 20:07

Living and working in China is not the same as the US. The conditions shown, do not look inhumane. There are cultural differences which dictate work conditions over the desire of the employee or Foxconn. Working at a Foxconn factory is like working on a ship. Have you ever bunked on a ship, in the Navy? Their wages are far above the standard for China and other Asian nations. It was calculated Foxconn workers earn $480 per month, after room and board. Since they don't need cars and electricity, we are to believe this $480 is free and clear disposable income. Therefore, they may actually have more disposable income than minimum wage workers living in the US, who have to pay rent in the hundreds per month, buy and drive cars long distances to work, etc.

Complaining about the worker's plight in China is an unnecessary attack on Apple, when all companies in the US and Europe use the same workers in the same or worse working conditions. Why not complain about working conditions in Mexico or Africa? Oh, I know, because no one cares and Apple's name isn't attached to it.

322.2.2012 20:45

How many matelots take a header overboard in an average month?

422.2.2012 21:34

AAA! Chinese spam on a forum about harsh working conditions in China; IT BURNS!

522.2.2012 21:40

spammer spammed

623.2.2012 1:20

Originally posted by dcmorrow:
Living and working in China is not the same as the US. The conditions shown, do not look inhumane. There are cultural differences which dictate work conditions over the desire of the employee or Foxconn. Working at a Foxconn factory is like working on a ship. Have you ever bunked on a ship, in the Navy? Their wages are far above the standard for China and other Asian nations. It was calculated Foxconn workers earn $480 per month, after room and board. Since they don't need cars and electricity, we are to believe this $480 is free and clear disposable income. Therefore, they may actually have more disposable income than minimum wage workers living in the US, who have to pay rent in the hundreds per month, buy and drive cars long distances to work, etc.

Complaining about the worker's plight in China is an unnecessary attack on Apple, when all companies in the US and Europe use the same workers in the same or worse working conditions. Why not complain about working conditions in Mexico or Africa? Oh, I know, because no one cares and Apple's name isn't attached to it.
wow i never tought of it that way but you make a good point. is used to be poor in my early 20's and had about 200 a month disposable income it sucked.

723.2.2012 2:24

Did Diane Sawyer hide her ipad during this segment or did I miss it. She usually has it on stand in front of her.

823.2.2012 3:19

You can work this out.

$1.78*6= 128.16 per 6 day week as they probably don't do a 5 day week.

128.16-17= 111.16 for the months rent.

111.16-8.4= 102.56 to pay for food.

Leaves 102.56 to spend after a weeks pay.

but with only having 1 day to mess around it'd be hard to spend it.


Though I'd question the $1.78 yaun as that'd be a really high pay for china.

You'd be a foreman or forewoman for that sort of money, as a general worker you'd be on a far less amount say 0.80 cents yaun per day.

923.2.2012 12:33

Sad as it is, people are busting their asses to get in there to work. When I was working in the entertainment industry I would easily pull 16 hour days for weeks at a time, 7 days a week. Sure, the work was feast & famine, but doing extra work was still basically minimum wage. Glamorous, right?

I still have pay stubs proving the 125 hour work weeks I put in at a few other places too. Could I have simply walked off? Sure... & never be asked to work there again. Let's not even start on the fact about no health care or retirement benefits or other luxuries despite the dedication in your respective craft either.

Despite the cultural divide... we all have this incurable habit of 'eating'. When someone dangles a carrot in front of us we'll jump at the opportunity. Obviously, in this case, the younger people didn't do the math prior to making the commitment.

Oh, Xtago your math is all over the place, wrong and YUAN is NOT US Dollars. Use the exchange rate. $1 is about 6.29781 YUAN. So the math should reflect that. So should your comments, as stating both yuan/dollars at the same time is confusing as well as incorrect. It should read:

$1.78 x 12= $10.68
$10.68 x 6 = $64.08
$64.08 x 4 = $256.32 approximate monthly income
$256.32 - $17 = $239.32 ($17 is a fixed rate for their dorm rate.)

And then it's .70 cents per meal, which if they take both in a 12 hour day would be $1.40 per day. So, for the sake of argument, we'll say 24 work days in the month...

24 x $1.40 = $33.60
$239.32 - $33.60 = A grand total of a shitty $205.72 which converts to 1296.40 Yuan (rounded up).

For a 'month'? Yeah, it's probably right. You still can't afford to change your mind with that amount of money.


1023.2.2012 17:31

The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...

1124.2.2012 7:21
llongtheD
Inactive

Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
Wow, so having a giant pool of slave labor is the mark of good capitalism? Anyone defending Apple, or any other big U.S. corporation over these types of practices needs to have their head examined. Your one of the I/me generation. As long as your needs get fulfilled, everything's o.k. Maybe you need to start watching less FOX news, and stop looking at the tube and nodding while doing it. It always amazes me when someone brings up the republican/democrat thing. They both serve the same elite groups, and nothing will ever change if we only have a choice between those two.
Originally posted by dcmorrow:

Complaining about the worker's plight in China is an unnecessary attack on Apple, when all companies in the US and Europe use the same workers in the same or worse working conditions. Why not complain about working conditions in Mexico or Africa? Oh, I know, because no one cares and Apple's name isn't attached to it.
So if all big corporations are doing it, that makes it alright? You obviously have the math all figured out, if it's such a great deal why don't you or your kids go work in those dorms in China? Oh yeah, then you wouldn't be able to afford Apple products.
I'll give you the point that they singled out apple on this one, but it doesn't make it right, and it won't last. What your forgetting is that while the corporations are making money hand over fist, its eroding the economy here.
With all the people defending apple on this one I'm probably wrong. Maybe the new American dream will be to live on a corporate "campus" and work 16 hours a day, while providing cheap products to another country.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2012 @ 7:50

1224.2.2012 8:56

Originally posted by llongtheD:
Wow, so having a giant pool of slave labor is the mark of good capitalism?
Incorrect.
Originally posted by llongtheD:
Your one of the I/me generation.
Incorrect.
Originally posted by llongtheD:
As long as your needs get fulfilled, everything's o.k.
Incorrect.
Originally posted by llongtheD:
They both serve the same elite groups, and nothing will ever change if we only have a choice between those two.
Correct. Both parties serve the socialist media because voters are trained in socialism by the universities. The only (unattainable) solution is to eliminate socialism.

Originally posted by llongtheD:
So if all big corporations are doing it, that makes it alright?
Incorrect; he did not say that.
Originally posted by llongtheD:
You obviously have the math all figured out,
if it's such a great deal why don't you or your kids go work in those dorms in China? Oh yeah, then you wouldn't be able to afford Apple products.

Incorrect; he does not, nor do you nor I. Also, the approval process to emigrate to China, to live and work, is designed to make it nearly impossible.

You are a socialist, incapable of unlearning that capitalism is bad. It is logical that no quantity of evidence could ever convince you that capitalism creates prosperity and freedom, so I will leave it go at that. However, may I respectfully suggest that you read The Law by Frederic Bastiat. It is a free download from Mises dot org.

1324.2.2012 9:47

That's quite a tub of Kool-Aid you've drank.

"Both parties serve the socialist media because voters are trained in socialism by the universities. The only (unattainable) solution is to eliminate socialism."

Capitalism is an economic theory...not a theory based on governing people. It will never be. The problem with theory is that it doesn't always line up with reality...so you have to adjust.

There are many benefits realized for society from Capitalism, but there will be holes where you actually have to bite the bullet and accept the reality that realizing profits doesn't always match up with society's greater good. Capitalism is neither good or bad...it just is. Same with other forms of economic theory. All can be used negatively or positively for society.

Your comment about universities is really ridiculous. Yes...I have seen the liberal bent of universities, but the long term effect on whether you will be a liberal or a conservative because you went to a university is very negligible. We seem to have no shortage of college educated conservatives in this world. Your alternative would be for all of us to quit going to college?

That would be great for me, as I've never gone to more than a couple of semesters of college (and make a more than decent wage in an engineering type position competing with people who have at least their four year electrical engineering degrees...and incidentally, I can't think of a single one of them I'd consider liberal).

1424.2.2012 9:59

Good come back Blessedon as llongtheD doesn't seem to see reality here.

These workers in China are making a killing building Apple products in their economy, I sure don't see a problem here and so typical of our liberal media to totally misrepresent the situation as it truly is.

1524.2.2012 10:31

So how much flak will Amazon get when the new Kindle Fire is built by Foxconn?


I wanna devise a virus and bring dire straights to your environments. Crush your corporations with a mild touch, trash the whole computer systems and revert you to papyrus - Deltron 3030

1624.2.2012 10:52

Very professionally put, Iguana, however

Originally posted by IguanaC64:
Yes...I have seen the liberal bent of universities, but the long term effect on whether you will be a liberal or a conservative because you went to a [liberal] university is very negligible.
LOL, my friend; that is as likely as attending an Al Qaeda training camp and graduating with Christian beliefs!

1724.2.2012 11:57

in a way its ok casue if the people of china had no job they'd have no money and no food.
in another way its a rip off they live in a room with 7 other people and work there butts off for $1.78 an hour.think mcdonalds pays more than that here, in fact think unemployment benefits pay more than that here.
the other problem it has is on the economy and the jobs.one day in the future no one will be able to get work cause everything will be made in china for $1 or $2 an hour and shipped over seas and no one outside of china will have jobs.


custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.

1824.2.2012 12:19

The only one out of herd that made any sense was kalssic when he asked if Amazon was going to catch hell for their manufacturing processes moving to Foxconn next.

What is the matter with you guys!?! It sounds like another community college, politico 101, rabble fest again... Human emotion (greed) drove US derived jobs that eventually became unionized & deemed unfit to pay anymore overseas into Asia. Sectors of inner China bid on the project. The lowest bidder then erected the Foxconn plant & is now continuing to operate with the same business model as the US based concept of capitalism in its home country of communism; despite the contradiction.

I haven't seen the story, but I'm sure it runs the same chance of lopsidedness as any other, but I refuse to believe it's as dangerously bios as you guys are letting on. I.e., it's not the conspiratory slop you get from the doom assholes on Youtube armed with a Tivo, goat, KY & a half baked idea. despite the fact that the major 3 are under the thumb of the FCC, you can't "force" anyone to say what you want them to say. That's what superpac money & those dumbass "documentaries" are for.

My point is, these folks are somewhere on a middle ground where 1st world nations are. Work or walk. It's all wrapped up in legalese & there isn't a thing they can do to argue their point. Walmart does it to their employees right here in the good ol' US of f*ing A, but that story has faded away. Why? Because it's a 1st world problem & they know how to f*k the system now.

Skin tone has little to do with it. Now geography has little to do with it. And you're a pathetic fool if you think politics has even the slightest little thing to do with it. Oh, it's involved. Like kids are involved in pedophilia, just not as an innocent victim. It's greed people. Stay on target.


1924.2.2012 12:30

Originally posted by xboxdvl2:
in a way its ok casue if the people of china had no job they'd have no money and no food.
in another way its a rip off they live in a room with 7 other people and work there butts off for $1.78 an hour.think mcdonalds pays more than that here, in fact think unemployment benefits pay more than that here.
the other problem it has is on the economy and the jobs.one day in the future no one will be able to get work cause everything will be made in china for $1 or $2 an hour and shipped over seas and no one outside of china will have jobs.
McDonald's doesn't pay more there! And that's realistic or the prospective one should use. I've been in a house over there that was about 14'x14' made of thin wood, cardboard, and whatever they can find and they had 12 people in it unlike the luxury rooms they are getting working for Foxconn. When you look at how far the money goes there they are doing very well and the workers would tell you that too.

As to our debacle here, Russ is right but that is another issue having nothing to do with ABC the poor workers in China....

2024.2.2012 12:47

Originally posted by LordRuss:
Human emotion (greed) drove US derived jobs that eventually became unionized & deemed unfit to pay anymore overseas into Asia.
Have to agree with you on most of what you said,
however, one factual correction please;
Modern (as opposed to practical, time-tested Journeyman or Apprentice) American unions formed during the latter part of the Civil War Reconstruction era, purely as a protectionist measure to keep the flood of cheap, skilled - suddenly free and unemployed - black labor from taking white jobs. Literally, what later became the AF of L, and the CIO were specifically intended to keep blacks out of work.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2012 @ 12:49

2124.2.2012 13:31

Honestly, this heartbreak over Foxconn made me want to make meme called "Liberal problems" (similar to the "first world problems" meme) after hearing some guy on NPR complain about his mixed emotions over loving his iPad and the working conditions at Foxconn. If you're going to get upset about it, quit buying electronics period. They're all made in the same areas in the same type (or worse) facilities.

If we want conditions for Chinese workers to improve, then Capitalism really is the best answer in this case. A rising middle class due to economic prosperity will demand better conditions/better wages or move to companies with better environments.

2224.2.2012 13:53

Blessed is right & I stand partially corrected; it is the mutated version of capitalism that greed has molded that's got us here. If we 'journeyed' into our positions (i.e., earned our right) to be where we are then I don't think we would have as many problems. There really is FAR too much entitlement going on. Which I will say, is a hard statement to make, being a disabled veteran.

Technology isn't the new devil, so damning it isn't the answer either. Blame ourselves, look in the mirror, straighten our shoulders, look at the damage & fix it. Don't bullshit ourselves & say, "it's not so bad" or "It's not as bad as it looks". I'll refer you all back to my high polished turd analogy.

Hard, cold, nut biting solutions, that are a bit bitter to swallow are needed to fix the problems. Whining, hugging & slobbering are for when the war is over, not as the enemy is upon you. Don't tell it can't be done, because I've been in enough natural & man made disasters to see that the human spirit can be FORCED to endure literally ANYTHING, so putting you mind to changing a brand of toilet tissue is fluff. Complaining about it should have you beaten to say the least.

Americans have done it in the past & can most assuredly do it again. I'm just tired that it literally has to be a chunk of a loved one's ass near death for some action to be made.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2012 @ 13:55

2324.2.2012 18:04

Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....

2424.2.2012 18:21

Originally posted by ivymike:
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....
LMAO!!!!
I expected a paid trolling shill to show up eventually; as evidenced by your use of the derogatory term rather than the proper one.
And no; while I am not a Tea Party member...yet, I do share their view of limited government, unlike yourself. But then, you are paid to show up in places like this so...who knows what you really think, or eve if you do.
For more on your version of "conservatism", please refer to Obama's latest budget; Page 58 of the 500 page appendix, chart 5-1.
He had said in 2009 that if he could not cut the deficit in half within 3 years - "...then I deserve to be a one-term president"!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2012 @ 20:19

2524.2.2012 20:15

Originally posted by ivymike:
Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....
What rock did you crawl from beneath? WOW

2625.2.2012 0:51

Nearly ALL the major media outlets, be it TV news, cable news, newspaper, etc. are owned by a handful of media conglomerates such as News Corporation or CBS. These corporations are run by a select few individuals who vote for republican conservatives.

Other than the "teabagger" part, I stand by my story.

2725.2.2012 3:32

Who the hell cares for these chinese workers. Make them work 16 hrs a day as long as the products they make for the US are cheap. There are 1.2 billion of these lil guys so if one jumps off the roof theres another one waiting in line.

I wouldnt even pay $1.78\hr. Maybe $0.75\hr for 16hrs\day but free small portion meals(2X a day). And I better see more cheap chinese products.

2825.2.2012 5:34

Originally posted by LordRuss:
Sad as it is, people are busting their asses to get in there to work. When I was working in the entertainment industry I would easily pull 16 hour days for weeks at a time, 7 days a week. Sure, the work was feast & famine, but doing extra work was still basically minimum wage. Glamorous, right?

I still have pay stubs proving the 125 hour work weeks I put in at a few other places too. Could I have simply walked off? Sure... & never be asked to work there again. Let's not even start on the fact about no health care or retirement benefits or other luxuries despite the dedication in your respective craft either.

Despite the cultural divide... we all have this incurable habit of 'eating'. When someone dangles a carrot in front of us we'll jump at the opportunity. Obviously, in this case, the younger people didn't do the math prior to making the commitment.

Oh, Xtago your math is all over the place, wrong and YUAN is NOT US Dollars. Use the exchange rate. $1 is about 6.29781 YUAN. So the math should reflect that. So should your comments, as stating both yuan/dollars at the same time is confusing as well as incorrect. It should read:

$1.78 x 12= $10.68
$10.68 x 6 = $64.08
$64.08 x 4 = $256.32 approximate monthly income
$256.32 - $17 = $239.32 ($17 is a fixed rate for their dorm rate.)

And then it's .70 cents per meal, which if they take both in a 12 hour day would be $1.40 per day. So, for the sake of argument, we'll say 24 work days in the month...

24 x $1.40 = $33.60
$239.32 - $33.60 = A grand total of a shitty $205.72 which converts to 1296.40 Yuan (rounded up).

For a 'month'? Yeah, it's probably right. You still can't afford to change your mind with that amount of money.
Is it just me or is everyone struggling with maths??

$1.78 x 12 = $21.36 not $10.68

this would leave them about double a month than posted here

2925.2.2012 6:24

Originally posted by glynnr:
Originally posted by LordRuss:
Sad as it is, people are busting their asses to get in there to work. When I was working in the entertainment industry I would easily pull 16 hour days for weeks at a time, 7 days a week. Sure, the work was feast & famine, but doing extra work was still basically minimum wage. Glamorous, right?

I still have pay stubs proving the 125 hour work weeks I put in at a few other places too. Could I have simply walked off? Sure... & never be asked to work there again. Let's not even start on the fact about no health care or retirement benefits or other luxuries despite the dedication in your respective craft either.

Despite the cultural divide... we all have this incurable habit of 'eating'. When someone dangles a carrot in front of us we'll jump at the opportunity. Obviously, in this case, the younger people didn't do the math prior to making the commitment.

Oh, Xtago your math is all over the place, wrong and YUAN is NOT US Dollars. Use the exchange rate. $1 is about 6.29781 YUAN. So the math should reflect that. So should your comments, as stating both yuan/dollars at the same time is confusing as well as incorrect. It should read:

$1.78 x 12= $10.68
$10.68 x 6 = $64.08
$64.08 x 4 = $256.32 approximate monthly income
$256.32 - $17 = $239.32 ($17 is a fixed rate for their dorm rate.)

And then it's .70 cents per meal, which if they take both in a 12 hour day would be $1.40 per day. So, for the sake of argument, we'll say 24 work days in the month...

24 x $1.40 = $33.60
$239.32 - $33.60 = A grand total of a shitty $205.72 which converts to 1296.40 Yuan (rounded up).

For a 'month'? Yeah, it's probably right. You still can't afford to change your mind with that amount of money.
Is it just me or is everyone struggling with maths??

$1.78 x 12 = $21.36 not $10.68

this would leave them about double a month than posted here
$1.78 x 12 does = $21.36

custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.

3025.2.2012 6:45

Originally posted by ivymike:
Nearly ALL the major media outlets, be it TV news, cable news, newspaper, etc. are owned by a handful of media conglomerates such as News Corporation or CBS. These corporations are run by a select few individuals who vote for republican conservatives.

Other than the "teabagger" part, I stand by my story.
Disney, Viacom, GE, and Time Warner own 4/5 of the media. GE pays no tax and their CEO; Jeffery Immelt is Obama's "Job Czar". George Soros (5 times on the White House visitor list) owns billions of dollars of stock in these companies (not including the 2.3 million he "donated" to NPR). He also owns, contributes to, or has a controlling share in 30 other media outlets - including Huffington Post / AOL. He has already admitted on video that bringing down democracies is "fun".
Add it up.
Again, no one could possibly be as dumb as you appear, therefore, you are paid to be here to disseminate false information.

3125.2.2012 8:54

Originally posted by xtago:
You can work this out.

$1.78*6= 128.16 per 6 day week as they probably don't do a 5 day week.

128.16-17= 111.16 for the months rent.

111.16-8.4= 102.56 to pay for food.

Leaves 102.56 to spend after a weeks pay.

but with only having 1 day to mess around it'd be hard to spend it.


Though I'd question the $1.78 yaun as that'd be a really high pay for china.

You'd be a foreman or forewoman for that sort of money, as a general worker you'd be on a far less amount say 0.80 cents yaun per day.

They work 12 hours, not 6 as your math dictated.

3225.2.2012 12:20

Originally posted by Blessedon:
Originally posted by ivymike:
Nearly ALL the major media outlets, be it TV news, cable news, newspaper, etc. are owned by a handful of media conglomerates such as News Corporation or CBS. These corporations are run by a select few individuals who vote for republican conservatives.

Other than the "teabagger" part, I stand by my story.
Disney, Viacom, GE, and Time Warner own 4/5 of the media. GE pays no tax and their CEO; Jeffery Immelt is Obama's "Job Czar". George Soros (5 times on the White House visitor list) owns billions of dollars of stock in these companies (not including the 2.3 million he "donated" to NPR). He also owns, contributes to, or has a controlling share in 30 other media outlets - including Huffington Post / AOL. He has already admitted on video that bringing down democracies is "fun".
Add it up.
Again, no one could possibly be as dumb as you appear, therefore, you are paid to be here to disseminate false information.
Thank you for beating me to it Blessedon, like I said WOW can you have your head any further is the sand?

3325.2.2012 12:42

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by Blessedon:
Originally posted by ivymike:
Nearly ALL the major media outlets, be it TV news, cable news, newspaper, etc. are owned by a handful of media conglomerates such as News Corporation or CBS. These corporations are run by a select few individuals who vote for republican conservatives.

Other than the "teabagger" part, I stand by my story.
Disney, Viacom, GE, and Time Warner own 4/5 of the media. GE pays no tax and their CEO; Jeffery Immelt is Obama's "Job Czar". George Soros (5 times on the White House visitor list) owns billions of dollars of stock in these companies (not including the 2.3 million he "donated" to NPR). He also owns, contributes to, or has a controlling share in 30 other media outlets - including Huffington Post / AOL. He has already admitted on video that bringing down democracies is "fun".
Add it up.
Again, no one could possibly be as dumb as you appear, therefore, you are paid to be here to disseminate false information.
Thank you for beating me to it Blessedon, like I said WOW can you have your head any further is the sand?
Ow... my eye... However folks, we do have to remember one thing here. Although the numbers are a shocking revelation, they are still circumstantial. One or two figures of evil do not speak for the whole cast.

Case in point: A soldier who has killed in battle. Does that make him as much a murderer as those who wantonly kill 'x' number of people?

Be careful... answering this is also dependent on which side of the victim your defending. Drones killing innocents would have one view, while crimes of passion or spousal abuse are heaped heavy sentences every day.

Now some will say juxtaposing a multinational broadcast station to murder is ludicrous. I say look again. Aren't these individuals capable of changing/swaying the view of nations? They certainly have the money to do it.

Media can't make you do anything. It's been proven time & again, we still have free will. But "influence" it can, just look at advertising. That's what politics 'is'. The art of 'selling' you on my idea as being right. Except my idea has more tasty bits of chocolaty bullshit than yours and if you give me all your money I can convince everybody else the same!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Feb 2012 @ 12:55

3425.2.2012 13:32

Couldn't have said it better LordRuss

I might addendum the "media can't make you do anything" part;
For we here are not the norm. And of those; we who post like this are more the Academics. Not greater nor lesser, just, say, The Infocentric.
Roughly 7 in 10 of my coworkers take TV "news" as gospel. Only one or two (of about 240), and then occasionally, inquire further. Jerry Springer is their #1 show. Followed by Survivor. Seriously.
I know of only one who can copy and paste in a browser.

My experience is that they will do, verbatim, whatever they are told to by the media.

3525.2.2012 14:20

You forgot the Simpsons and all of those cartoon series for adults?? too. I couldn't agree more, even FOX News should be questioned, I certainly don't buy into everything they spew, but at least they make an attempt at presenting both sides of the argument, no other News group really do that. There is no doubt that the masses are brainwashed by the media or by the people in control of information (government). This is why we have the Politically Incorrect, recycle things we should not, and people are afraid to let their children play outside these days, among many other things of course.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 25 Feb 2012 @ 14:22

3625.2.2012 14:44

Originally posted by Blessedon:

I might addendum the "media can't make you do anything" part;
For we here are not the norm. And of those; we who post like this are more the Academics. Not greater nor lesser, just, say, The Infocentric.
Roughly 7 in 10 of my coworkers take TV "news" as gospel. Only one or two (of about 240), and then occasionally, inquire further. Jerry Springer is their #1 show. Followed by Survivor. Seriously.
I know of only one who can copy and paste in a browser.

My experience is that they will do, verbatim, whatever they are told to by the media.
After all the godless, shitty, horrors I have seen on a couple corners of this planet, I guess I keep forgetting that the bulk of humanity still fits into the parameters you just put up.

I've seen down & out garbage picking folk that are as smart & giving a people as you could imagine, that help anyone, anytime, anywhere and have virtually nothing to show for their effort. And are some of the smartest people alive.

I've also walked among $4000 suit wearing assholes who made shit eating jackals, feasting on a still crying baby's abdomen in the middle of a Christmas dinner table feast, look good. Just to put it into perspective; some of these guys were so stupid, one even wore a $1000 pair of non prescription eyeglasses because he wanted to look good & thought it would make him look smarter.

In effect, yeah, I had to be working for these jerk offs(at one time)... it's this kind of garbage we should all be more worried about falling under the rule of. It's these idiots & 'man behind the curtain' that I've been made aware of that scares me the most.

It's not that they're smarter. They're not!!! Believe me!!! The only mitigating factor is that they have money and that is it.

3725.2.2012 14:57

Amen to that!

3826.2.2012 0:59
llongtheD
Inactive

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by ivymike:
Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....
What rock did you crawl from beneath? WOW
Wow, you and blessedon really are shills for FOX news. Maybe one day you'll start thinking for yourselve's. It's either that or your just trolls. You two are actually ignorant enough to believe that "outsourcing" like apple and the other big corps. are doing is sustainable to our economy.
@ blessedon.Next time you try and make a serious post shill/blessedon, at least put the questions and statements I posted with "your" correct answers, in the correct order. I guess I got you too riled up disputing what has been brainwashed into you.
The good folks at fox news are praying for you though; blessed one.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2012 @ 1:31

3926.2.2012 1:04

I have been to China many times, due to my job. China is where the United States was in the early 1900s. The US had companies where they supplied the housing, you bought your food and necessities at "the company store." There were no unions; unsafe working conditions and abuse were rife. In China, there is no EPA and the air is toxic several days a month. And there are rights that we are guaranteed in the US that they DO NOT have. When I am there and on the internet, there are sites that I cannot go to - they simply do not allow it. Remember the Beijing Olympics - well, they shut down all the factories around Beijing for 2 months and restricted all motor traffic for the same period before the Olympics just to get the air semi-breatheable. China will get to where we are eventually. In my lifetime, I have seen the US send a President to China for the first time (1973 - Nixon). Before that time, China was a closed society. They had an earthquake that killed over 250,000 and all the world could tell was the size of the quake and China would not accept any assistance or admit that they had one. As for the media, our elected leaders, tv shows, etc, the US is a free country - our citizens can read what they like, watch what they like, and vote for whom they like. Some will watch Jerry Springer, think the National Enquirer is a real newspaper, and the like. But most of us are hard working, thinking people who sometimes do not appreciate what we have and what others have fought and died for. I enjoy going to China and other places, but there is no place like home - with the freedoms I enjoy - like being able to criticize the government.

4026.2.2012 2:11

Originally posted by llongtheD:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by ivymike:
Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....
What rock did you crawl from beneath? WOW
Wow, you and blessedon really are shills for FOX news. Maybe one day you'll start thinking for yourselve's. It's either that or your just trolls. You two are actually ignorant enough to believe that "outsourcing" like apple and the other big corps. are doing is sustainable to our economy.
@ blessedon.Next time you try and make a serious post shill/blessedon, at least put the questions and statements I posted with "your" correct answers, in the correct order. I guess I got you too riled up disputing what has been brainwashed into you.
The good folks at fox news are praying for you though; blessed one.
You couldn't be more wrong and you have no real come back to your totally wrong prospective on our media which Blessedon blatantly pointed out to you. The fact that there is ONE news source that isn't in your camp pretty much slaps in your face the point that the media isn't driven by Republican's, and yet you can't see it, so who has the open mind here, Please....

Also as I stated I don't believe everything I hear from any source as I did state prior about FOX News, and had you read my reply you might have comprehended that, again blind to the facts.

What I find really interesting is how people like you can hate the Tea Party types but embrace the Occupiers, it shows a real lack of morals and any idea of what this country was founded on. So like I said a couple of times before, WOW!!!

Unfortunately going further with you on this is truly futile so what really is the point. You are funny though.... :)

4126.2.2012 2:11
llongtheD
Inactive

Originally posted by Blessedon:

You are a socialist, incapable of unlearning that capitalism is bad. It is logical that no quantity of evidence could ever convince you that capitalism creates prosperity and freedom, so I will leave it go at that. However, may I respectfully suggest that you read The Law by Frederic Bastiat. It is a free download from Mises dot org.
So you really have no argument? Like I said in an earlier post, learn to think for yourself. You've tried to turn it back into a socialist/capitalist argument, instead of the issue at hand. Of course you only know what you've been told, or have read, or have seen on fox news, no ideas of your own; so I'm kicking a dead horse here. I have some bad news for you, your one of the 7 out of 10, and you don't even know it. That's what is really scary.
I did find your statement to Russ that you were an academic hilarious, so at least your good for something.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2012 @ 2:25

4226.2.2012 2:26
llongtheD
Inactive

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by llongtheD:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by ivymike:
Originally posted by Blessedon:
The hypocritical Diane Sawyer pushes her blatantly socialist agenda however Obama (read; Brooks at Media Matters) tells her to.
As many are aware, members of Media Matters (funded by Soros' Tide Foundation)have admitted that they write the "news" for ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN.

It is HEARTBREAKING watching our republic spiral down into socialism while the sheep stare at the tube and just...nod...
The Mainstream Media here in the US is clearly Conservative. FOX NEWS is just an example of Extreme right wing conservatism.

Clearly you sound like one of the teabaggers....
What rock did you crawl from beneath? WOW
Wow, you and blessedon really are shills for FOX news. Maybe one day you'll start thinking for yourselve's. It's either that or your just trolls. You two are actually ignorant enough to believe that "outsourcing" like apple and the other big corps. are doing is sustainable to our economy.
@ blessedon.Next time you try and make a serious post shill/blessedon, at least put the questions and statements I posted with "your" correct answers, in the correct order. I guess I got you too riled up disputing what has been brainwashed into you.
The good folks at fox news are praying for you though; blessed one.
You couldn't be more wrong and you have no real come back to your totally wrong prospective on our media which Blessedon blatantly pointed out to you. The fact that there is ONE news source that isn't in your camp pretty much slaps in your face the point that the media isn't driven by Republican's, and yet you can't see it, so who has the open mind here, Please....

Also as I stated I don't believe everything I hear from any source as I did state prior about FOX News, and had you read my reply you might have comprehended that, again blind to the facts.

What I find really interesting is how people like you can hate the Tea Party types but embrace the Occupiers, it shows a real lack of morals and any idea of what this country was founded on. So like I said a couple of times before, WOW!!!

Unfortunately going further with you on this is truly futile so what really is the point. You are funny though.... :)
It's futile because you have no real argument as well. I never mentioned until you "two" did, anything about fox or any other of our corrupt media agencies. You actually believe what is going on is working, that is what is funny to me. Well a little sorry to. You did do a good job of driving the focus on the chinese working in dorms to a different agenda pretty well. Nice work. It must be fun to live in your little dream world and not think past the next decade. For Mr. Movies, ignorance is bliss. Is it mister, or just MR?
You and the blessed one wouldn't happen to be spinners for politicians would you. If you aren't, you'd probably have a fantastic future avoiding the facts. LOL, just kidding, neither of you are smart enough to do that. I didn't mean to get your hopes up.
What you and blessedon fail to see is that now we're shipping in thousands of "temporary" workers from india and other countries also, to work on the cheap right here. They don't have to pay health insurance for them, or any type of retirement, its just a great way to increase profit margins. It will probably take a bunch of morons losing their jobs to visa workers for them to wake up. But that's probably just good capitalism.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2012 @ 3:02

4326.2.2012 2:52

Circle-Jerk Boy.... LOL

4426.2.2012 3:03
llongtheD
Inactive

Come on MR, your better than that. At least have an argument.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2012 @ 3:04

4526.2.2012 3:23

Originally posted by llongtheD:
Come on MR, your better than that. At least have an argument.
You do circles and keep doing them so no you have NO ARGUMENT! Like I said you are a waste of good time! But definitely funny... I will not play your silly games!! Sorry

4626.2.2012 6:49

Originally posted by llongtheD:
Come on MR, your better than that. At least have an argument.
Just ignore llongtheD;
He has to do this to get paid.

4726.2.2012 17:51

hear the approaching thunder?

4826.2.2012 20:15

I wish more people read (and understood) Das Kapital - or more realistically, The Grundrisse - so that all this malarkey would be so much clearer to all of them...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2012 @ 20:16

4926.2.2012 20:39

Originally posted by Bozobub:
I wish more people read (and understood) Das Kapital - or more realistically, The Grundrisse - so that all this malarkey would be so much clearer to all of them...
Agreed! I have read it many times, and I will not embark upon here the lengthy dissertation of socioeconomic theory therein - wrong place.
Suffice it to say; that history has proven Marx' theories, along with Keynes, for the most part, unworkable when applied fully.

5026.2.2012 20:49

Books what are those? LOL The problem with any system is power and corruption, you can see it in Capitalism as well, however it is still the best system we have, or should I say had? funny.... Your're right though this is getting way off subject. Was DDP trying to start something? LOL

5126.2.2012 22:11

the approaching thunder is getting closer & angrier.

5226.2.2012 22:28

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Was DDP trying to start something? LOL
Nope; he's gonna end it.

5326.2.2012 22:36

somebody is smart so how about the rest of you?

5427.2.2012 6:40

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
You forgot the Simpsons and all of those cartoon series for adults?? too. I couldn't agree more, even FOX News should be questioned, I certainly don't buy into everything they spew, but at least they make an attempt at presenting both sides of the argument, no other News group really do that.
Wow, seriously?

I guess that might be right if you think 'both sides' of a story is the right-wing POV and the crazy even more right-wing POV.

The sad truth is that with a few exceptions the USA doesn't have a left-wing.

Just being slightly less inclined to promote & reinforce the interests of the most wealthy individuals & corporations does not make you 'of the left'.
That is basically all the US Dems are.

The idea that the Dems are in any ways 'socialist' or left-wing is laughable by any serious standard anywhere outside of the USA today.
But then the American body politic & media have simply decided to invent the definition for those terms themselves & apply them as abusive terms.
Just like 'Liberal' or 'Nazi'.

This is merely a reflection of how right-wing the USA is today.
The tweedle-dee & tweedle-dum of US politics is just a game.
Whatever you choose it's pretty much the same thing (with the drama of name-calling & a spurious 'political debate').

The idea that anyone in the mainstream US media is promoting the ideas & interests of anyone but the most wealthy is utterly hilarious.

....and hand-wringing over workers conditions where people are so distressed as to commit suicide over them does little to change a thing.
Ditto the growing slave workforce which is sprouting up all over the world.
China has vast prison cities where they manufacture goods with a labour cost that cannot be matched for low levels.
But they are hardly alone.
Even in the west it is happening.
But too few care - and more than a few think it right (until it happens to one of theirs or themselves, as usual).
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 27 Feb 2012 @ 6:44

5527.2.2012 19:42

Originally posted by Interestx:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
You forgot the Simpsons and all of those cartoon series for adults?? too. I couldn't agree more, even FOX News should be questioned, I certainly don't buy into everything they spew, but at least they make an attempt at presenting both sides of the argument, no other News group really do that.
Wow, seriously?

I guess that might be right if you think 'both sides' of a story is the right-wing POV and the crazy even more right-wing POV.

The sad truth is that with a few exceptions the USA doesn't have a left-wing.

Just being slightly less inclined to promote & reinforce the interests of the most wealthy individuals & corporations does not make you 'of the left'.
That is basically all the US Dems are.

The idea that the Dems are in any ways 'socialist' or left-wing is laughable by any serious standard anywhere outside of the USA today.
But then the American body politic & media have simply decided to invent the definition for those terms themselves & apply them as abusive terms.
Just like 'Liberal' or 'Nazi'.

This is merely a reflection of how right-wing the USA is today.
The tweedle-dee & tweedle-dum of US politics is just a game.
Whatever you choose it's pretty much the same thing (with the drama of name-calling & a spurious 'political debate').

The idea that anyone in the mainstream US media is promoting the ideas & interests of anyone but the most wealthy is utterly hilarious.

....and hand-wringing over workers conditions where people are so distressed as to commit suicide over them does little to change a thing.
Ditto the growing slave workforce which is sprouting up all over the world.
China has vast prison cities where they manufacture goods with a labour cost that cannot be matched for low levels.
But they are hardly alone.
Even in the west it is happening.
But too few care - and more than a few think it right (until it happens to one of theirs or themselves, as usual).
well put.absolutely true but you are going to see a real shit storm from those who have had the party line pounded into their heads all their life.its hard for some to take a detached view of this as its easier sometimes to let feeling override logic.by the way,i really havent cared one way or another in this thread ever since it got off topic.

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