AfterDawn: Tech news

Crytek: Used games should be blocked on upcoming consoles

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 28 Apr 2012 22:21 User comments (37)

Crytek: Used games should be blocked on upcoming consoles Over the past few months, it has been rumored that the upcoming generation of consoles from Sony and Microsoft will block used games from playing, a move that would kill the entire second market and likely bankrupt retail companies like GameStop.
Rasmus Hojengaard, the director of creative development at Crytek, seems to feel that rumor should become fact: "From a business perspective that would be absolutely awesome. It's weird that [second-hand] are still allowed because it doesn't work like that in any other software industries, so it would be great if they could somehow fix that issue as well."

If not completely banned, the exec appears to at least want the used game sales truncated.

"The worst thing that can happen is they [console makers] make something that's very complex for developers, regardless of how awesome it might theoretically be. So getting hardware that allows you to quickly get prototypes up and running, and any kind of scalability they can offer will be great as well, as long as everyone has that scalability and not just a select few."

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37 user comments

128.4.2012 22:27

will definitely kill gamestop etc

228.4.2012 22:32

Game stop has an estimated 17,000 full time employees alone. Giving these companies like Sony/Microsoft and their software developers more money just kills the economy even more. Who is going to be paying these new unemployed people if they can't find jobs? More money for tax payers to give up.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 28 Apr 2012 @ 22:33

328.4.2012 22:42

Originally posted by dude845:
Game stop has an estimated 17,000 full time employees alone. Giving these companies like Sony/Microsoft and their software developers more money just kills the economy even more. Who is going to be paying these new unemployed people if they can't find jobs? More money for tax payers to give up.
Not to mention that $60 for a poorly coded buggy piece of software that you only use once is a really poor investment. If they want to sell more primary market units, lower the price. Same goes for movie studies. They have hit/surpassed the price point of the consumer.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 28 Apr 2012 @ 23:06

Scott

428.4.2012 22:59

Originally posted by neronut:
Originally posted by dude845:
Game stop has an estimated 17,000 full time employees alone. Giving these companies like Sony/Microsoft and their software developers more money just kills the economy even more. Who is going to be paying these new unemployed people if they can't find jobs? More money for tax payers to give up.
Not to mention that $60 for a poorly coded buggy piece of software that you only use once is a rally poor investment. If they want to sell more primary market units, lower the price. Same goes for movie studies. They have hit/surpassed the price point of the consumer.
Exactly. I'm sick of the prices that shit costs now it's crazy. And I've decided that if video games go above $60 I'm done buyin' them brand new.

528.4.2012 23:28

I RARELY buy games anymore. My PS3 is used as a blu-ray player/media player, and I've sold the 360. However, several friends are still avid gamers, typicall buying 2-3 games per month. As you would expect, they typically sell them once they become bored with them. Myself, or other friends buy them at a very discounted price. Here's the shocker; they use the money they get from selling the old games to...BUY NEW GAMES!!! People like myself only buy 1 or 2 new games a year, but may buy 8-10 used games. SONY and Microsoft will only be hurting themselves, because I still won't pay full price unless it's GOW, Zelda, Uncharted, etc. and even then I may just stop playing all together if I have shell out $400 for a system, then $60 for the one great game that I want per year.

628.4.2012 23:33

It really is time vs convience. Its more convient to pick up that game in 15 minutes vs waiting a couple hours and even longer on new release day. Also if you are a family sharing bandwidth a few games a month could be a killer. And with some companies may cost you in overages. And all speed isn't the same everywhere. There would be no point to get a console in a rural area. The connection would just plain suck. And No dish doesn't count. The next generation after this one. Which will be about 10 years later. Then they can talk about a download only. By then our speed should have doubled. And in some areas quadruple. And more rural areas would be more connected.

Sony is still creating 3d blue ray movies. How the hell don't you have your premiere product with out a blue ray player! Do you think the movie studios would like this? This would be a death nail in the dvd/blue ray business. Not like its death hasn't been predicted. But easily 1 in 3 homes will have one of these products in their home. Its great for them to target the casual gamer mostly movie watcher. But its always and forever will be the gamer that they make their money off.

728.4.2012 23:34

Pure, unadulterated greed. And greed is always so short-sighted. All they will succeed in doing is crippling the used game market, but instead of boosting sales of new games, I'm betting the people who would have been willing to spend some money on used games will just start obtaining them illegitimately, or ditching gaming altogether. What's more, it's a turn off for people who buy games new, since they no longer have a way to recover any of their investment if they no longer want the game.


828.4.2012 23:34

people seem to be forgetting that gamestop's outrageous prices for used games put small time "mom and pop" used video game stores in business, like mine for example. Lets just say the retro gaming market is not as demanding as the current-gen market. A lot more people ask for MW3 than the original super mario bros on NES. News like this is gonna blow a whole ton of small businesses away

928.4.2012 23:39

Kind of sucks for the system makers when the game developers are pulling one way and the public is pulling the other. Either they give us what we want and the developers don't sell, or they pull this crap and we don't buy.

I would just say screw the developers, they'll be the ones losing money on all the games they WONT be selling.

1028.4.2012 23:41

Originally posted by drshake:
people seem to be forgetting that gamestop's outrageous prices for used games put small time "mom and pop" used video game stores in business, like mine for example. Lets just say the retro gaming market is not as demanding as the current-gen market. A lot more people ask for MW3 than the original super mario bros on NES. News like this is gonna blow a whole ton of small businesses away
I, for one, am not a fan of EB Games over priced Used Games. For a few dollars more one could buy new. I've played a lot of games that friends have lent me. I have also lent my friends games. We can take our games to each other's places and play them and enjoy them. This will also be put to rest.

It is because of this word of mouth and sharing that I have bought new games. Its amazing how everything seems to fit in, yet they want to take it all away so they can have a huge cut of the secondary market's profits...

Scott

1128.4.2012 23:45

Originally posted by Tazer247:
Kind of sucks for the system makers when the game developers are pulling one way and the public is pulling the other. Either they give us what we want and the developers don't sell, or they pull this crap and we don't buy.

I would just say screw the developers, they'll be the ones losing money on all the games they WONT be selling.
The console makers are also publishers, so they have their hands in both worlds. If they succumb to the devs, then the public will tighten up and not buy as much, meaning they loose money on new hardware sales and on game purchases. If they don't do as the devs want then they loose money on primary market (new) game sales. It is ultimately up to them..they have to choose the lesser of the 2 evils. Personally, I think they should put the devs in their place.

Scott

1228.4.2012 23:53

Originally posted by neronut:
Originally posted by Tazer247:
Kind of sucks for the system makers when the game developers are pulling one way and the public is pulling the other. Either they give us what we want and the developers don't sell, or they pull this crap and we don't buy.

I would just say screw the developers, they'll be the ones losing money on all the games they WONT be selling.
The console makers are also publishers, so they have their hands in both worlds. If they succumb to the devs, then the public will tighten up and not buy as much, meaning they loose money on new hardware sales and on game purchases. If they don't do as the devs want then they loose money on primary market (new) game sales. It is ultimately up to them..they have to choose the lesser of the 2 evils. Personally, I think they should put the devs in their place.
Seems like you and I both see things the same then! Let's hope the console makers agree.

1329.4.2012 2:57

MS and Sony can both prevent used games from being playable. They will eventually understand pissing on the majority of your consumers may not bold so well. Given Nintendo will have an open to used market console, they may as well shoot themselves in the foot.

1429.4.2012 3:38

They want this because the second hand market is larger than the first hand...lol..they've done their homework 2nd hand games is big business & they want in,why only take one tiny bite of the cake when you can eat the whole dam thing

edit: Tonight & Every Night $1.00 smorgasbord all you can eat,bring two paying friends & you dine free

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2012 @ 3:43

1529.4.2012 8:03

How would this effect operations such as Gamefly? I'm not up to speed
on how systems would not be able to play used games, but, by doing this, wouldn't it also make it impossible to borrow a friends' game? I would imagine the new game played for the first time on system A, would leave a product code on that system for that game, and make playing the same game on system B impossible, because system B does not have that product code on it registered for that game. Does that make sense?

I'm sure there will still be thousands of people that will buy these systems and games because they are die hard gamers, but there's no sense in companies doing this, as their profit margin would dwindle from lack of sales to the other, greater thousands that would not buy it.

Just my two cents.

1629.4.2012 9:02

"It's weird that [second-hand] are still allowed because it doesn't work like that in any other software industries"

have they looked on ebay i see used software,books,music,computers,and cars and everything under the sun.... the bottom line is if someone has a choice of 59.99-65.00 new or 15.00-30.00 used they will go for the better deal all the time

1729.4.2012 9:27

The bigger companies do not see any of the sales dollars on the used market. This is why they are trying to close this market out and keep all of the cash for themselves.

The used market is a thriving one, but the greed of companies like Gamestop is slowly killing this market without any help from the game publishers. I buy a fair number of new games and would be more than happy to pay for used games as well, but when I walk into the Gamestop and the new copy is shrink wrapped and selling for $50 with a used copy without a manual is right next to it selling for $45..... Common sense seems to kick in here.

For some people, they are loyal to the bigger companies, but only to the extent that their budget allows. I know a guy why is just getting around to Twilight Princess for the Wii due to it recently hitting $15 used ($20 new) at Gamestop.

I would think that if nothing else, the used market just helps as an advertising campaign due to the large number of people who do trade in their games and turn them for other games. It feels good sitting with friends talking about all the latest games they have actually played as opposed to only being exposed to them through print and the net.

1829.4.2012 10:42

Well that's Crytek bycotted by me now as I will never purchase another Crytec game from this company. I will not stand for Idiot comments like this from any game manufacturer and of which will kill the second hand game retail stores. Also if sony and microsoft do integrate this idea into their consoles then they will both do very poorly in sales as who in their right mind would purchase a console that will not allow you to play second hand games. I am sure this will not happen but if it does they will be shooting themselves in the head and will fail to sell their new consoles.


1929.4.2012 10:55

Quote:
people seem to be forgetting that gamestop's outrageous prices for used games put small time "mom and pop" used video game stores in business, like mine for example. Lets just say the retro gaming market is not as demanding as the current-gen market. A lot more people ask for MW3 than the original super mario bros on NES. News like this is gonna blow a whole ton of small businesses away
Huh? I bought Killzone 2 for like $11.99 and WWE Wrestling 2010 for around $20. Hardly outrageous. I have no plans to purchase the latest "next-gen'" console if content goes 100% digital download.

*Bought for PS3
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2012 @ 10:58

2029.4.2012 11:39

well the more i think about it the more i see people wait until the newness of the game goes away after all the more choices you have the more your willing to wait until the game you really want drops in price after all how long did it take batman to drop to around 19.99-29.99 stores are not going to return unsold games they will try to sell them knowing the costumer is looking for a good deal like all the discount bins in best buy games and movies discount bins are a mainstay in best buy now

2129.4.2012 11:41

You guys are forgetting what happends if your consoles breaks.

2229.4.2012 11:46

Originally posted by david100k:
You guys are forgetting what happends if your consoles breaks.
???? i thought it has been proven a few years ago that the system is sold at a loss because the games are really what makes the money and systems go down in price real fast if your not worried about streamlined systems that are sold at a lower cost

2329.4.2012 12:06

Well, that's just one move that would further convince me to continue burning Xbox games and getting Russian CD keys at a quarter of games' release price...

"It doesn't work like that in any other software industries" - If he's talking about PC games, well while CD keys do stop second-hand market, they have other important uses as well, like deterring cheaters from ruining multiplayer due to fear of being banned and having to re-purchase the game, and slow down piracy, while such a locking system wouldn't address those 2 last issues at all: true cheaters are much rarer on consoles, and well, nothing will stop pirates if the lock isn't handled at the server level, which is the case for most if not all PC games, and even there...

Also, console games are much more convenient than PC games - apart from a valid serial number, a PC game will require you to install the game on your machine, as well as requiring proper hardware to actually run the game. With console games, you just pop the disc into a compatible system, and can start playing right away.

"It would be great if they could somehow fix that issue as well" - The original use of serial numbers was to counter piracy, and not kill the second-hand market, albeit an indirect effect that does benefit publishers. I would expect anyone who acquires a PC game with the sole intent of playing it offline to use a crack or a keygen. Therefore, what truely kills the second-hand market is the need for multiplayer.

Crytek has constantly deceived me ever since they hoped onto the console bandwagon. Crysis 2 terribly sucked compared to the first one; it felt like Call of Duty on crack while drunk, but the first one can be thought of a nice mix between Battlefield and Counter-Strike. AND, they somehow managed to completely fail the serial numbers validation system on the PC, as there are cracks out there that allow you to play Crysis 2 online without a valid key.

So yeah, fuck you Crytek. Even thought you belong to EA (who tries to charge extra for the normally-expected amount of work on their products), it feels like you've turned into a subsidiary of Activision (who tries to charge extra while working even less on their products).

2429.4.2012 13:27

Originally posted by Hrdrk20:
Quote:
people seem to be forgetting that gamestop's outrageous prices for used games put small time "mom and pop" used video game stores in business, like mine for example. Lets just say the retro gaming market is not as demanding as the current-gen market. A lot more people ask for MW3 than the original super mario bros on NES. News like this is gonna blow a whole ton of small businesses away
Huh? I bought Killzone 2 for like $11.99 and WWE Wrestling 2010 for around $20. Hardly outrageous. I have no plans to purchase the latest "next-gen'" console if content goes 100% digital download.

*Bought for PS3
Two games is hardly indicative of non exorbitant prices of thousands of second hand games that joe blogs or some 2nd hand retailer is attempting to get a ridiculous price for on outdated or older games or even fairly recent,when some of those games can be bought new for less.it's not like member was generalizing tho it may have seemed like it & lets not forget condition & popularity play a part

2529.4.2012 13:35

Originally posted by david100k:
You guys are forgetting what happends if your consoles breaks.
Well, then the user would have to go on to their respective websites, de-authorize the console and reauthorize the game with the new one? That would mean one could sell a game because it would be removed from ones account. Unless they set it up as it is linked to your profile and you can de-authorize it from a system and add it to another system on your account.

Locking games to consoles, overall, is bad for the end user (the person who actually purchases the game). If someone hacks their console this issue doesn't exist any more...hence piracy :)

Scott

2629.4.2012 14:38

Quote:
Huh? I bought Killzone 2 for like $11.99 and WWE Wrestling 2010 for around $20. Hardly outrageous. I have no plans to purchase the latest "next-gen'" console if content goes 100% digital download.

*Bought for PS3

Two games is hardly indicative of non exorbitant prices of thousands of second hand games that joe blogs or some 2nd hand retailer is attempting to get a ridiculous price for on outdated or older games or even fairly recent,when some of those games can be bought new for less.it's not like member was generalizing tho it may have seemed like it & lets not forget condition & popularity play a part
Agreed here; first off Killzone 2 had so many copies distributed and unsold, that I found that game in the bargain bin at Walmart for $5 new. So you still got ripped off. And what year are we in, you bought WWE 2010, like wow. Sports game don't even have collection value, there may be a handful worth anything at all. Most of them 3+ years go for $1. You didn't get a good deal paying $20 for that game that's for sure; but hey, if you feel satisfied with that price, good for you to see value in what you paid.

Now moving from old PS3 games into this year, any new release that gets brought back into gamestop (cough: Skyrim); they'll offer you $20 in store game credit at best, then sell it for $5 under the value of their new price which is anywhere from $5-10 more than departments stars such as Wal-Mart, Target, etc.

Any game that was released in 2011-now, if the game didn't release as a complete flop or is an old sports game, you are not getting a good deal. As one guy said it, you compared a (good deal, which I know is not) as 2 examples out of thousands of examples. Gamestop deserves to go under, make no mistake.

However, I do not believe they need to go under in this manner. Used game market should not be cancelled as it will make all games, collectable or not, = to that of a paperweight. What should be done, is forcing secondhand stores and game retailers to pay a re-sale fee to developers. That would solve the issue and people would still be able to buy used games. Why nobody listens to that sound reasoning is beyond me.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Apr 2012 @ 14:44

2729.4.2012 14:48

if this is the road they are going down will they lower the price of the games for example the price of the platinum games or just try to screw the public over for new tech new games at 50 plus euro per pop. it would be a reason to just jailbreak the unit and not go online. if going online will penalise you like this then personally i wouldnt do it.

2829.4.2012 17:35

It may open the market to new ideas, a new system perhaps? just over a year ago I cut the cable, scary at first but it wasn't long before my family and I got used to it. I consider myself a pretty avid gamer (PC, 360, PS3), but if the cost becomes to much I will just have to cut the cable on them as well, sure it will sting at first but I'll get over it. People will change how they budget entertainment and how they spend their time, and smart, capable people will take advantage of that and come up with something different and affordable, and those people will prosper. Angry birds was just a couple bucks and those guys made a freaking fortune.


Keep your head up, keep alert, and don't let them take you by suprise.

2929.4.2012 18:28

Originally posted by dodger5:
It may open the market to new ideas, a new system perhaps? just over a year ago I cut the cable, scary at first but it wasn't long before my family and I got used to it. I consider myself a pretty avid gamer (PC, 360, PS3), but if the cost becomes to much I will just have to cut the cable on them as well, sure it will sting at first but I'll get over it. People will change how they budget entertainment and how they spend their time, and smart, capable people will take advantage of that and come up with something different and affordable, and those people will prosper. Angry birds was just a couple bucks and those guys made a freaking fortune.
The idea isn't that everyone stops buying games. That would kill them outright. The idea is that they make a move that maximizes the profit for all parties. The consumers need decent prices vs. Game play experience in order purchase a game. The developers want to make as much as possible so they can invest in new games and pay their costs. The publishers want to make back what they invested in the development and marketing of the games. It is a delicate balance.

This move will unbalance the system and potentially hurt the industry more then what they think will happen. They need to address everyone's issues and create a balanced ecosystem.

Scott

3029.4.2012 19:28

Originally posted by imnomyth:
I RARELY buy games anymore. My PS3 is used as a blu-ray player/media player, and I've sold the 360. However, several friends are still avid gamers, typicall buying 2-3 games per month. As you would expect, they typically sell them once they become bored with them. Myself, or other friends buy them at a very discounted price. Here's the shocker; they use the money they get from selling the old games to...BUY NEW GAMES!!! People like myself only buy 1 or 2 new games a year, but may buy 8-10 used games. SONY and Microsoft will only be hurting themselves, because I still won't pay full price unless it's GOW, Zelda, Uncharted, etc. and even then I may just stop playing all together if I have shell out $400 for a system, then $60 for the one great game that I want per year.
That's the way I am. The only games I'll buy brand new are Modern Warfare and GO@. I get madden as a gift, but other than that, screw it. The prices are insane.

3129.4.2012 20:48

Can anyone tell me HOW they can/will be able to effectively "ban or prohibit" the use of "used" games????? That would mean not taking your game to a friend's house to play. F THAT! Glad I'm an avid computer gamer.

3230.4.2012 3:50

Originally posted by imnomyth:
I RARELY buy games anymore. My PS3 is used as a blu-ray player/media player, and I've sold the 360. However, several friends are still avid gamers, typicall buying 2-3 games per month. As you would expect, they typically sell them once they become bored with them. Myself, or other friends buy them at a very discounted price. Here's the shocker; they use the money they get from selling the old games to...BUY NEW GAMES!!! People like myself only buy 1 or 2 new games a year, but may buy 8-10 used games. SONY and Microsoft will only be hurting themselves, because I still won't pay full price unless it's GOW, Zelda, Uncharted, etc. and even then I may just stop playing all together if I have shell out $400 for a system, then $60 for the one great game that I want per year.
I agree I dont wanna buy a game beat it and then just have it sittin I will sell it take that money and buy a new one ... BIG mistake on the company if they do this ... I can see if this happens it will make the piracy go back up people will go back to PC and drop consoles cause it will be cheaper to download games on net and play them
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 30 Apr 2012 @ 3:52

3330.4.2012 9:12

-Who is gonna take a chance buying a game with no resale value? Sure if it is a 5 star game, but there hasn't been a 5 star game in at least 10 years. Even if the new hardware makes up for sloppy code and there is new textures, people are gonna get bored with the same old gameplay.

-There is still gonna be a console that will support used games and that is the one consumers will flock to. Either that or the first one hacked to play pirated games. Did the psp outsell the Vita this week? Have been loyal Sony, but the last console was just a string of disapointments.

3430.4.2012 20:23

I haven't had a game system since my original NES.

Honestly? I do not understand how this industry has survived this far. Outrageous prices. Crippling DRM. Antagonistic business practices. Crappy coding.
Just add this to the other crap that this industry has piled on you, the customer.


Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

354.5.2012 12:57

Maybe console gamers will start realizing that it's cheaper to go pc.

Sony talking pricing PS+.
MS raising LIVE cost AND still increasing ads.
Devs/Pubs requiring codes for online multiplayer.
Devs/Pubs/Mfgs all wanting used games blocked.


... and on and on. For the price that people are buying these consoles for at launch, they could be building/buying a gaming pc.

364.5.2012 13:28

Originally posted by bhetrick:
Maybe console gamers will start realizing that it's cheaper to go pc.

Sony talking pricing PS+.
MS raising LIVE cost AND still increasing ads.
Devs/Pubs requiring codes for online multiplayer.
Devs/Pubs/Mfgs all wanting used games blocked.


... and on and on. For the price that people are buying these consoles for at launch, they could be building/buying a gaming pc.
PC Gaming has a different feel to it. It also generally has better graphics but that is all dependent on your hardware. Games that are written for the console are designed to just work. You pick up a PS3, you play PS3 games. Pretty simple. The PC world has had Serial Numbers for ages now, which means that if you buy a game it has no resale value. Mind you, they never used to track the serial numbers.

THe Console world evolved along a different path. Back in the days of cartridge games, like the NES, SNES, N64, etc. you could just more your game from one console to another and your saves and everything came along with it. But it meant you could go to your friend's place and play, or if your console died you just picked up a new one and kept going.

These companies are undermining the very fabric that made them a success. It is unfortunate that they have become greedy, that seems to be the popular thing to do in today's world. But there is a cost. If it means jumping ship then so be it.

Easy Solution: Lower the cost of new games, keep the current game model. This way they get more primary market sales and the secondary market will still exist.

Scott

374.5.2012 18:46

I wouldn't fret a bit over this. First the DL game disk.. HACKED... next the ap2.5- HACKED, many different "waves" - a;; hacked, and now the XGD3- again.. HACKED.
I do not have a hacked console but it seems like every move the industry makes there are a handful well in front of them maiking moves around certain blocks.
If it weren't for the outrageous prices they ask for a $0.28 disk with a gamne on it, there wouldn't be much of this. As for the eb/gamestop used prices, they are outrageous as well. you buy a 60.00 game play it a week and get what you want out of it, they rebuy it for 29.00 and then resale it for 5.00 less than a new copy. I can see where some comapnies want in on that or are just pissed they can't get that kind of action, but it's not the store's fault the games do not stay interesting fgorever!!!

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