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Mapping The Mobile Landscape: Does Closing Windows Make Sense For Microsoft?

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 05 Oct 2012 1:39 User comments (40)

Mapping The Mobile Landscape: Does Closing Windows Make Sense For Microsoft? In the first two installments in this series examining the mobile device market we have looked at Apple and Amazon. This time around we'll be talking about a company who currently only competes in the smartphone market but whose tablets are perhaps the most anticipated product to come along since the original iPad. That company is Microsoft and obviously the tablets are the numerous models which will launch with (and following) Windows 8.
As the dominant operating system in the PC market, Windows revenue has obviously dropped with the platform as a whole in decline. Meanwhile Microsoft has watched as Apple has not just reinvented the personal computing market with the iPad, but also managed to maximize profit margin at the same time. Beginning with Windows Phone 7 and continuing with the Windows 8 family of operating systems Microsoft appears to be betting on combining their established licensing model and Apple-like levels of control to regain their OS dominance.

Continuing a strategy first introduced with Windows Phone 7, Windows 8 and its derivatives (Windows RT and Windows Phone 8) are designed first and foremost as clients for Microsoft's software and media distribution efforts. It's not a coincidence that Windows Phone and Windows RT (their ARM-based Windows 8 tablet platform) are configured to prevent users from installing unapproved software and despite their insistence to the contrary the reason isn't security. It's the opportunity to make themselves a gatekeeper for apps and media and cut themselves in on any profits from selling those commodities.

A large part of that vision is already built-in to every Windows 8 computer, regardless of form factor or whether it's the ARM (RT) or x86 variant. That's a client for their app store, simply called the Windows Store. On Windows RT tablets it will be the only way for third parties to distribute software for the platform. As is already the case for Windows Phone 7 (and will be for Windows Phone 8), a developer's license is required if you want to install apps any other way.

More to an ecosystem than the device


The problem with this thinking is that the initial success of the iTunes app store wasn't so much about the hardware or OS as it was the instant userbase. By the time Apple added app support to the iPhone not only were there already millions of users chomping at the bit to get apps, there was already a thriving developer community created by first generation jailbreakers.

The most important thing for developers is users. For all of Android's fragmentation issues, the enormous number of potential customers ensures lots of developer interest. A plan which requires you to first attract developers and use that to attract consumers seems like the hardest possible route to success. If anything the reason Apple's user limitations aren't an issue is because their products have such a rich collection of basic functionality included with the device.

Of course Apple's primary revenue source isn't apps or media. It's the devices themselves. As much as they would like to demand a fee comparable to what Apple makes from an iPhone or iPad Microsoft ultimately has to split the profit with a hardware vendor. That's where a pair of new strategies come in. The first is increased licensing fees from bundling Microsoft Office with every copy of Windows RT. On top of that Microsoft will also be selling their own line of hardware called Surface which will compete with their numerous OEM partners.

Of course that's not so much an issue for consumers as it is for the hardware vendors Microsoft is competing with. Perhaps down that line that may change, particularly if those OEMs decide to stop making Windows devices and you aren't impressed with Microsoft's hardware. For now though it's probably not worth worrying about. What's much more pressing for consumers, or should be for anyone considering a Windows tablet, is the difference between regular Windows 8 and Windows RT.

Not quite what they promised


From the initial announcement in 2011 that Windows 8 was being redesigned to run on the ARM processors which dominate the mobile device market until more than a year later Microsoft representatives including CEO Steve Ballmer and Windows Division head Steven Sinofsky made a lot of vague statements about Windows 8 which intimated that the ARM version could do do everything the traditional x86/x64 version was capable of.

They didn't actually come out and say that, but in hindsight there can't be any question they knew that's the impression people were getting and yet they completely avoided any mention of differences between them. That's certainly true if you're content to get all your software from Microsoft's app store. On the other hand if your interest in Windows revolves around the wide array of software available for Windows today you will find Windows RT sorely lacking.

Imagine if instead of simply expanding iOS a little for the iPad Apple had gone back to the drawing board and created a separate version of OS X and rebuilt it with a tablet interface. Then imagine they announced the iPad, rolled out the same changes to OS X and the iPhone, while keeping the app installation restrictions on the iPhone and also extending them to the iPad. Furthermore imagine if they advertised these tablets as running "full" OS X even though none of your old software would run on it and even if it would you couldn't install it.

That's essentially what Microsoft has done with Windows RT. The single platform model slightly expands Windows Phone because it theoretically allows Windows apps to run on Windows Phone. The physical differences between a phone and a tablet or desktop make it hard to guage how much difference it really makes, but it's definitely an addition.

Defined by its limitations?


A Windows RT tablet is supposed to be "real" Windows but actually it's entirely incompatible with not just the existing Windows software, but also the way most of that software is acquired and installed.
Microsoft's philosophy is to provide customers with the best experience first, and allow them to make decisions themselves - Building Windows 8
Where the iPad added to the iPhone, in most ways Windows RT subtracts from Windows. There's still the benefit of a touchscreen interface and mobility, but it falls far short of providing the traditional Windows experience Microsoft is selling.

If that Windows experience doesn't matter to you, a Windows RT tablet may be just what you want. It certainly could be very compelling if you also use a Windows Phone. However if you don't own a Windows Phone and don't care about the Windows experience it's not clear what you get from a Windows RT tablet. It has the limitations of iOS without the benefits of Apple's ecosystem and offers far fewer apps than either iOS or Android.

On the other hand if you do want that Windows experience, or at least the option to have it for certain tasks, a x86-based Windows 8 tablet may be a much better fit. It also could be the biggest obstacle for Windows RT. We will examine that in more detail in the next installment.

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40 user comments

15.10.2012 1:43

I wouldn't touch Windows 8 with someone else's 11-foot pole in the future. Tried it, HATED it, dropped it like a steaming-fresh turd, will never look back.

25.10.2012 1:50

Originally posted by Bozobub:
I wouldn't touch Windows 8 with someone else's 11-foot pole in the future. Tried it, HATED it, dropped it like a steaming-fresh turd, will never look back.
Yeah that seems about right.

35.10.2012 3:12

if MS closes the system, IMHO, apple will win the market (at least, initially) since apple has started closing it 1st, and within the limits of a closed system, they have won a significant number of customers since they became more reliable than MS with 3rd parties. MS has dominance because of the open system, if they close it, i don't know how long they will take to get what apple is now.


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45.10.2012 7:01

I see it as an attempt by MS to capture some of Apple's luster. Problem is Apple has been the underdog for the most part, and MS is seen as "the man". For too long MS has been open, like Android.

MS needs to redefine it's self. However, Win 8 platform is not it. I have not tried it, but it looks to me a polished version on 7. I am not interested. More importantly how is the OS going to work for the occasional user? Those are the ones that will either make or break Win 8. Not enthusiasts. Sorry but sheeple will use what is easy. Apple figured that out a while back.

55.10.2012 9:33

It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.

65.10.2012 11:21

Originally posted by ROMaster2:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
I wouldn't touch Windows 8 with someone else's 11-foot pole in the future. Tried it, HATED it, dropped it like a steaming-fresh turd, will never look back.
Yeah that seems about right.
I can't agree more. On one side is see exactly why m1cr0s0ft is trying this, co$t wise a single OS for either the PC or mobile/tables makes sense. But that said it bears out and proves one saying i really like... "When you try to be everything for everyone... You quickly become nothing for all."




75.10.2012 11:21

Originally posted by Frogfart:
It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.
Yeah! You are going to buy a boxed copy for antique sake to show that it's the most expensive failure of an OS. Lot's of luck with that! The boxed price for windows users is $39.95, a price on par with IOS and the cheapest Microsoft version ever!! People who do not use Windows should be careful about commenting on things they do not know????

85.10.2012 11:26

Originally posted by drhanaba:
Originally posted by Frogfart:
It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.
Yeah! You are going to buy a boxed copy for antique sake to show that it's the most expensive failure of an OS. Lot's of luck with that! The boxed price for windows users is $39.95, a price on par with IOS and the cheapest Microsoft version ever!! People who do not use Windows should be careful about commenting on things they do not know????
Your most certainly right, the cheapest OS by m1c0s0ft ever, and as they say: "You get what you pay for." As for Windows i've used it since Win 1.0 :)




95.10.2012 12:22

It's dumb for MS to change their Desktop model to tablet crap but smart to make a tablet/phone OS. They are new to that market so there will be learning curves and they won't have all of the apps at first either as NO ONE does when they start out. It would be impossible to catch up with a competitor that has been in the business for almost ten years when you are just starting out. They do have an advantage that they have ignored and that is the business sector. If they can streamline their mobile OS to the business line and keep compatibly with real products they will rebound.

105.10.2012 12:27

These comments remind me of what people were saying when XP came out. http://lateblt.tripod.com/whyxpbad.htm

The challenge that OS engineers face today is that a computer is no longer just a desktop or a laptop. People want to use their tablets and phones as full-fledged computers too. And Apple isn't giving us that. The problem is that you don't interface with your phone the same way you interface with your tablet, or the same way you interface with your PC. So either you have a different OS for every device (a la Apple or some combination of Windows/Android) or you develop an OS that works on all platforms, although inherently requires some compromises to do so because of the different ways we interact with the different devices.

I am using Windows 8 on my PC, and the UI definitely is a big change that requires some getting used to. With that said, within a couple months, I'll have a tablet (and sometime after that, a phone) that all use the same OS. That creates opportunities and conveniences that will more than make up for the fact that the UI makes compromises in order to work across all of those platforms.

Under the hood, Windows 8 is rock solid. Much cleaner than Windows 7, which was already a very solid OS. And as tablets roll out, Windows 8 provides a huge improvement over Android and Apple OS offerings.

Change is hard. Which is why some of the pre-release comments about Windows 8 look just as harsh as some of the comments people were making about XP when it came out.

We'll see how many Windows 8 tablets sell over the holiday season. If it's as big a success there as I suspect it will be, then people will get used to the OS on their tablets and shortly thereafter will migrate on their PCs as well.

115.10.2012 12:59

Originally posted by SoTired:
People want to use their tablets and phones as full-fledged computers too.

+1
well, i may not wanna do everything in a tablet/phone what i do in my computer; however, what is seen (read) in the computer should be seen in the tab/phone! and here, current tabs/phones fail. everything is like mobile version including office apps. i simply dislike it. i may not have the full editing capability (which is understood given that it is a mobile device) but come on! lemme READ.

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125.10.2012 13:58

"whose tablets are perhaps the most anticipated product to come along since the original iPad"

Might we call that a bit of hyperbole.

135.10.2012 14:28

It shows how the dumb follow, (sheep)! Why would you buy a tablet when you can get a full powered notebook/netbook for the same price, or even less if you're comparing Crapple.

It is just that mind-set why i-Crap is so popular. Anyone looking for a Pet Rock? If so I'll find a real nice one and gift wrap it for you at an exaggerated price of course. LOL

145.10.2012 15:20

Personally I have not used Windows 8 but I have read up on it a bit. I am not a fan of the metro UI but I think over all the OS has some good improvements. (task manager for one example)

I am also a fan of combining the OS to make the tablets/phone and computer work better together. Though it looks like to me it still needs a lot of work to fully realize this goal.

The reason I am still scared is the closed ecosystem that they are using on there phone/tablets and how close they could be to making that same closed ecosystem on the computer. If tomorrow they announced that other companies/developers could make competing windows stores that could work with there phones and tablets I would per-order windows 8.

155.10.2012 19:34

Originally posted by mukhis:
if MS closes the system, IMHO, apple will win the market (at least, initially) since apple has started closing it 1st, and within the limits of a closed system, they have won a significant number of customers since they became more reliable than MS with 3rd parties. MS has dominance because of the open system, if they close it, i don't know how long they will take to get what apple is now.
Actually, Android is closing in on first, Apple is losing ground fast. If Microsoft wants to copy Apple, they will probably see the same results...but without the initial landslide.

Originally posted by molsen:
I see it as an attempt by MS to capture some of Apple's luster. Problem is Apple has been the underdog for the most part, and MS is seen as "the man". For too long MS has been open, like Android.

MS needs to redefine it's self. However, Win 8 platform is not it. I have not tried it, but it looks to me a polished version on 7. I am not interested. More importantly how is the OS going to work for the occasional user? Those are the ones that will either make or break Win 8. Not enthusiasts. Sorry but sheeple will use what is easy. Apple figured that out a while back.
First, Apple has been "The Man" for a long time now...it isn't the 1990's anymore. Microsoft gives their money to charity and Apple spends their money on lawyers...what one sounds like a hippie and what one sounds like "the man"? Second, Windows 8 is not a polished Windows 7...Windows 7 SP1 is a polished Windows 7. Windows 8 is a mud-covered, rusted-out 1975 tercel that just got hit by a semi truck. Third, sheeple will use whatever everyone else is using because that is the whole definition of sheeple...they use Apple now, but Apple is losing ground to Android fast (anyway, for what the average person does, Android is actually easier because functional maps are built right in).

Originally posted by Frogfart:
It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.
I hate it myself, but c'mon...Vista was still far worse. Also, the rarest version of Windows was that crap that bill's GF made back in the early 1990's...no one bought that.

Originally posted by SoTired:
So either you have a different OS for every device (a la Apple or some combination of Windows/Android) or you develop an OS that works on all platforms, although inherently requires some compromises to do so because of the different ways we interact with the different devices.

I am using Windows 8 on my PC, and the UI definitely is a big change that requires some getting used to. With that said, within a couple months, I'll have a tablet (and sometime after that, a phone) that all use the same OS. That creates opportunities and conveniences that will more than make up for the fact that the UI makes compromises in order to work across all of those platforms.

Under the hood, Windows 8 is rock solid. Much cleaner than Windows 7, which was already a very solid OS. And as tablets roll out, Windows 8 provides a huge improvement over Android and Apple OS offerings.

Change is hard. Which is why some of the pre-release comments about Windows 8 look just as harsh as some of the comments people were making about XP when it came out.

We'll see how many Windows 8 tablets sell over the holiday season. If it's as big a success there as I suspect it will be, then people will get used to the OS on their tablets and shortly thereafter will migrate on their PCs as well.
The big issue in this article as far as I can tell is that the two versions of Windows 8 are not the same...there is an ARM version that is essentially a phone OS, and there is the x86/x64 version that is essentially Windows 7 with a phone OS gui. Yes, there will be tablets that have the x86 version, but there were tablets with Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and 7...they all failed (to be fair, they were never pushed very hard and were very expensive).

IF existing apps such as Photoshop, Autodesk, etc somehow actually work with the ARM version, then that would be wonderful, and would guarantee dominance of many corporate markets...but it looks like even if they did work in theory, Microsoft won't let them work because the ARM version is tied to an App store, and those developers are not going to give Microsoft a big chunk of their hugely inflated prices. These apps will probably work with the x86/x64 tablets, but at that point you might as well just have a laptop with a touchscreen...corporate types like their keyboards, that's why RIM still hangs on.

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
It shows how the dumb follow, (sheep)! Why would you buy a tablet when you can get a full powered notebook/netbook for the same price, or even less if you're comparing Crapple.
Laptops are not trendy anymore. A good pair of jeans is $20...a crummy pair of jeans with holes at the knees is $100. People pay for trendy, and they get what they pay for.

Originally posted by lamain:
The reason I am still scared is the closed ecosystem that they are using on there phone/tablets and how close they could be to making that same closed ecosystem on the computer. If tomorrow they announced that other companies/developers could make competing windows stores that could work with there phones and tablets I would per-order windows 8.

The reason I dislike the closed ecosystem is that it is only for companies. They block everyone else from installing their own software unless they have an expensive developer license. I know these will get jailbroken and everything, but still, they are trying to prevent independent developers from working with their platform...and they seem to forget that all the big players were once independents (even Microsoft). If they agreed to let Valve keep have their crummy market, it wouldn't make me want Windows 8 one little bit more. Then there is the big picture...what happens when new programmers can't test or distribute their software? Sounds like a recipe for disaster in the long-term.


165.10.2012 22:44

I can't wait for Windows 8 :) It's going to be a truly amazing experience to be able to merge mobile computing with desktop computing ... for businesses this is going to re-define the way things are done (which is why so many businesses buy iPads, but realise they are crap for business and stop using them!).

Those haters out there who say "I've used Win8 ... it's crap ... i'll never use it again" ... you must be Crapple fans ... do you have an iPhone? iPod? iPad? Are you afraid of change? :) Win8 is an awesome change ... and if the first version isn't massively successful, I'm sure things will definitely improve in the future ... I'm actually very excited about the future of computing ... Win8 may be the best thing to hit the world of IT since hyperlinks were invented? :)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Oct 2012 @ 22:45

175.10.2012 23:49

Originally posted by Frogfart:
It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.
What are the major drawbacks so far?

This is superman

186.10.2012 0:26

Originally posted by KillerBug:
IF existing apps such as Photoshop, Autodesk, etc somehow actually work with the ARM version, then that would be wonderful, and would guarantee dominance of many corporate markets...but it looks like even if they did work in theory, Microsoft won't let them work because the ARM version is tied to an App store, and those developers are not going to give Microsoft a big chunk of their hugely inflated prices. These apps will probably work with the x86/x64 tablets, but at that point you might as well just have a laptop with a touchscreen...corporate types like their keyboards, that's why RIM still hangs on.

i am afraid although x86/x64 tablets will be able to run legacy apps but just fail like they did before because using a full OS in mobile device has always been a disaster (low battery life, superhot device, freeze, etc). ARM version is going to have all the issues you have mentioned, so...

well, buying a laptop with touchscreen does not make sense to me at all unless the screen is detachable and can be used as tablet by itself. it seems very funny and weird to me that someone is using touchscreen in a laptop (or desktop). therefore, laptop with non-detachable touchscreen cannot be alternative to tablet.

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196.10.2012 0:39

So why do most people buy bluetooth keyboards for their tablets? Seems pretty dumb. Once again you're better off with a notebook and no reason you shouldn't have a touch screen in it too, just adds more functionality. Touch screens have been apart of PC's since before you were born, most probably, they just now have become more popular.

206.10.2012 6:35

Originally posted by adre02:
Originally posted by Frogfart:
It's a mega steaming turd and I dropped it too. It will be the most loathed OS that MS will ever release. I can never see it being taken up by the corporate market and those home users who do buy it will wonder why there is an awful smell of crap coming from their PC. However, I might buy a boxed copy and sell it in 20 yrs as the rarest and most expensive version of windows.
Yes! buy it as a possible future antique and not as an operating system.
What are the major drawbacks so far?
It's F******* Schizophrenic!

216.10.2012 7:26

Originally posted by h0g1e:
I can't wait for Windows 8 :) It's going to be a truly amazing experience to be able to merge mobile computing with desktop computing ... for businesses this is going to re-define the way things are done (which is why so many businesses buy iPads, but realise they are crap for business and stop using them!).

Those haters out there who say "I've used Win8 ... it's crap ... i'll never use it again" ... you must be Crapple fans ... do you have an iPhone? iPod? iPad? Are you afraid of change? :) Win8 is an awesome change ... and if the first version isn't massively successful, I'm sure things will definitely improve in the future ... I'm actually very excited about the future of computing ... Win8 may be the best thing to hit the world of IT since hyperlinks were invented? :)
Do you work on the Windows 8 development team?

226.10.2012 8:50

Originally posted by h0g1e:
I can't wait for Windows 8 :) It's going to be a truly amazing experience to be able to merge mobile computing with desktop computing ... for businesses this is going to re-define the way things are done (which is why so many businesses buy iPads, but realise they are crap for business and stop using them!).

Those haters out there who say "I've used Win8 ... it's crap ... i'll never use it again" ... you must be Crapple fans ... do you have an iPhone? iPod? iPad? Are you afraid of change? :) Win8 is an awesome change ... and if the first version isn't massively successful, I'm sure things will definitely improve in the future ... I'm actually very excited about the future of computing ... Win8 may be the best thing to hit the world of IT since hyperlinks were invented? :)

Not liking Win8 (and Vista, and ME before it) doesn't imply that I like Apple's products, it implies I dislike crap products. Nor does it imply that I'm "afraid of change"; your logic is deeply flawed. Nor do I own a single Apple product.

There are a few main reasons (as I've said on this forum before) I heartily dislike Windows 8, after trying the x86/x64 version:

- Metro. I simply dislike the Metro interface, especially on a non-touchscreen device. Using Metro with a KB/mouse is painfully inefficient, and furthermore, I don't have a PC to run phone-style apps. That's why I have a smartphone, which also happens to integrate with my PC as much as I need it to already.

- Bad integration of Metro with the (supposedly unneeded) desktop, which it dumps you to regularly. As someone noted above, it comes across as "schizophrenic". It's an obvious kluge, and comes across as the bastard child of Microsoft B.O.B. and Windows 7.

- Complete paradigm shift in developer workflow. Many small/indie developers simply won't be able to afford the significant investment required to learn and implement the new, required development tools (and the bigger houses don't like it much, either). This is a large part of why so many devs have been quite public in their scorn for Win8, in fact.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Oct 2012 @ 8:53

236.10.2012 12:20

Originally posted by SoTired:
These comments remind me of what people were saying when XP came out.


And they remind me of when Me and Vista came out. So what is your point? You sound like that guy years ago that said Me was the best OS every.

See how easy is to make your point with references to older post that were not even facts at the time they were posted. :-)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Oct 2012 @ 12:24

246.10.2012 15:10


And they remind me of when Me and Vista came out. So what is your point? You sound like that guy years ago that said Me was the best OS every.

See how easy is to make your point with references to older post that were not even facts at the time they were posted. :-)
Huh? I don't think you understood my point.

My point is that people whine whenever a new OS comes out, because they don't like change. Whether people are whining are release is not an indicator of whether the OS will or will not succeed. You have to give it time to see whether people will like it once they start to adapt.

256.10.2012 16:24

Originally posted by SoTired:



And they remind me of when Me and Vista came out. So what is your point? You sound like that guy years ago that said Me was the best OS every.

See how easy is to make your point with references to older post that were not even facts at the time they were posted. :-)
Huh? I don't think you understood my point.

My point is that people whine whenever a new OS comes out, because they don't like change. Whether people are whining are release is not an indicator of whether the OS will or will not succeed. You have to give it time to see whether people will like it once they start to adapt.
I love change and I love inovation but I hate shite! Windows 8 is the worst OS I have ever tried to use, nobody in my family wants to use it. We have removed it from our main PC and peace and harmony has returned.

266.10.2012 18:35

Quote:
Do you work on the Windows 8 development team?
I wish ... but unfortunately whilst being relatively skilled in the coding department, my imagination is terrible ... I'll leave the thinking and dreaming to the pros :)

Quote:
I love change and I love inovation but I hate shite! Windows 8 is the worst OS I have ever tried to use, nobody in my family wants to use it. We have removed it from our main PC and peace and harmony has returned.
Quote:
Not liking Win8 (and Vista, and ME before it) doesn't imply that I like Apple's products, it implies I dislike crap products. Nor does it imply that I'm "afraid of change"; your logic is deeply flawed. Nor do I own a single Apple product.

There are a few main reasons (as I've said on this forum before) I heartily dislike Windows 8, after trying the x86/x64 version:

- Metro. I simply dislike the Metro interface, especially on a non-touchscreen device. Using Metro with a KB/mouse is painfully inefficient, and furthermore, I don't have a PC to run phone-style apps. That's why I have a smartphone, which also happens to integrate with my PC as much as I need it to already.

- Bad integration of Metro with the (supposedly unneeded) desktop, which it dumps you to regularly. As someone noted above, it comes across as "schizophrenic". It's an obvious kluge, and comes across as the bastard child of Microsoft B.O.B. and Windows 7.

- Complete paradigm shift in developer workflow. Many small/indie developers simply won't be able to afford the significant investment required to learn and implement the new, required development tools (and the bigger houses don't like it much, either). This is a large part of why so many devs have been quite public in their scorn for Win8, in fact.
Do you guys happen to have a job? Or do you do all of your computing at home? I see Win8 re-defining the way business works. In our company we are just in the process of rolling out "industrial wireless" <-- breaks through the interference caused by much of the machinery on site. One reason we haven't rolled out wireless already it because we've tried iPads and Android tablets in the business, but they simply don't run enterprise apps and are not useful for business. We also experimented with WinXP and Win7 tablets which run enterprise apps well, but are just too hard to use on a tablet ... which is where Win8 will shine!

Where Apple started (and became successful) by producing "toys" for personal use, and Google has had a foot in both the business and the personal space, Microsoft has always aimed at being a purely "business" tool ... and I think the adoption may be slow (as it's hard to change consumer mindsets), but especially tablets and phones will begin to be truly useful for productivity as enterprise apps will be automagically compatible, and different cloud-based apps in the Microsoft exo-system will be brought together finally (i.e. sharepoint, office online, skydrive, lync, etc).

Sure, the unsophisticated of us will still be using WinXP, Win7, Apple, and Google products ... and they may be perfectly ok for home use ... but as a business productivity tool I don't see anything beating Win8 ... especially as it evolves into the future :)

I admit, my first try with Win8 didn't go too well as I was using it in the Beta and early versions ... and I was using it on Desktop ... but behind the Metro interface is a full operational OS, and I quickly saw the merits of having a cross-platform OS that spans multiple devices ... that said, we will be purchasing a swag of Win8 tablets as soon as they are released ... and our sales reps will be able to conduct sales orders on the road, the factory workers will be able to collaborate with handheld devices (finally), and there will be no compatibility issues between devices. Our CEO will no longer be frustrated trying to design a presentation with embedded videos, sound files, webpages in them ... and will have access to business-related Crystal reports where-ever he happens to be in the world. From an IT perspective, being able to tie all of this down using Group Policy, AD authentication, and NTFS permissions will be an added bonus for security and manageability :)

Keep hating :)

278.10.2012 3:36

Originally posted by SoTired:
These comments remind me of what people were saying when XP came out. http://lateblt.tripod.com/whyxpbad.htm

The challenge that OS engineers face today is that a computer is no longer just a desktop or a laptop. People want to use their tablets and phones as full-fledged computers too. And Apple isn't giving us that. The problem is that you don't interface with your phone the same way you interface with your tablet, or the same way you interface with your PC. So either you have a different OS for every device (a la Apple or some combination of Windows/Android) or you develop an OS that works on all platforms, although inherently requires some compromises to do so because of the different ways we interact with the different devices.

I am using Windows 8 on my PC, and the UI definitely is a big change that requires some getting used to. With that said, within a couple months, I'll have a tablet (and sometime after that, a phone) that all use the same OS. That creates opportunities and conveniences that will more than make up for the fact that the UI makes compromises in order to work across all of those platforms.

Under the hood, Windows 8 is rock solid. Much cleaner than Windows 7, which was already a very solid OS. And as tablets roll out, Windows 8 provides a huge improvement over Android and Apple OS offerings.

Change is hard. Which is why some of the pre-release comments about Windows 8 look just as harsh as some of the comments people were making about XP when it came out.

We'll see how many Windows 8 tablets sell over the holiday season. If it's as big a success there as I suspect it will be, then people will get used to the OS on their tablets and shortly thereafter will migrate on their PCs as well.
I don't see HOW this OS is going to be a "big success" as you put it!

Especially for people like me, who have been using Microsoft OS for my computer since the days it first came out! But don't even TRY to tell me that this is the same old stuff, when clearly it is not.

Yes for years Microsoft has been trying like apple to include DRM junk that not only gets in the way of the OS, but actually forces users to go to homemade patches, just to remove the DRM crap MS put in.

Now you are saying we should accept this? Sorry, but I think you are dead wrong on that one!If this OS becomes closed like apples, then people will be forced to go to jailbreaking it in order to use it the way THEY want!

You sound lkike a fanboy that is saying there is not much to worry about...I think with a closed system there is PLENTY to worry about!

The whole reason I use a PC, is because I am used to the basically open platform that windows has. If they close this OS like apple, then I just hope that there are a lot of hackers that can remove all the DRM junk that will come with this like they have for windows 7.

Otherwise I would not want it on my system.

288.10.2012 3:51

Originally posted by h0g1e:
Quote:
Do you work on the Windows 8 development team?
I wish ... but unfortunately whilst being relatively skilled in the coding department, my imagination is terrible ... I'll leave the thinking and dreaming to the pros :)

Quote:
I love change and I love inovation but I hate shite! Windows 8 is the worst OS I have ever tried to use, nobody in my family wants to use it. We have removed it from our main PC and peace and harmony has returned.
Quote:
Not liking Win8 (and Vista, and ME before it) doesn't imply that I like Apple's products, it implies I dislike crap products. Nor does it imply that I'm "afraid of change"; your logic is deeply flawed. Nor do I own a single Apple product.

There are a few main reasons (as I've said on this forum before) I heartily dislike Windows 8, after trying the x86/x64 version:

- Metro. I simply dislike the Metro interface, especially on a non-touchscreen device. Using Metro with a KB/mouse is painfully inefficient, and furthermore, I don't have a PC to run phone-style apps. That's why I have a smartphone, which also happens to integrate with my PC as much as I need it to already.

- Bad integration of Metro with the (supposedly unneeded) desktop, which it dumps you to regularly. As someone noted above, it comes across as "schizophrenic". It's an obvious kluge, and comes across as the bastard child of Microsoft B.O.B. and Windows 7.

- Complete paradigm shift in developer workflow. Many small/indie developers simply won't be able to afford the significant investment required to learn and implement the new, required development tools (and the bigger houses don't like it much, either). This is a large part of why so many devs have been quite public in their scorn for Win8, in fact.
Do you guys happen to have a job? Or do you do all of your computing at home? I see Win8 re-defining the way business works. In our company we are just in the process of rolling out "industrial wireless" <-- breaks through the interference caused by much of the machinery on site. One reason we haven't rolled out wireless already it because we've tried iPads and Android tablets in the business, but they simply don't run enterprise apps and are not useful for business. We also experimented with WinXP and Win7 tablets which run enterprise apps well, but are just too hard to use on a tablet ... which is where Win8 will shine!

Where Apple started (and became successful) by producing "toys" for personal use, and Google has had a foot in both the business and the personal space, Microsoft has always aimed at being a purely "business" tool ... and I think the adoption may be slow (as it's hard to change consumer mindsets), but especially tablets and phones will begin to be truly useful for productivity as enterprise apps will be automagically compatible, and different cloud-based apps in the Microsoft exo-system will be brought together finally (i.e. sharepoint, office online, skydrive, lync, etc).

Sure, the unsophisticated of us will still be using WinXP, Win7, Apple, and Google products ... and they may be perfectly ok for home use ... but as a business productivity tool I don't see anything beating Win8 ... especially as it evolves into the future :)

I admit, my first try with Win8 didn't go too well as I was using it in the Beta and early versions ... and I was using it on Desktop ... but behind the Metro interface is a full operational OS, and I quickly saw the merits of having a cross-platform OS that spans multiple devices ... that said, we will be purchasing a swag of Win8 tablets as soon as they are released ... and our sales reps will be able to conduct sales orders on the road, the factory workers will be able to collaborate with handheld devices (finally), and there will be no compatibility issues between devices. Our CEO will no longer be frustrated trying to design a presentation with embedded videos, sound files, webpages in them ... and will have access to business-related Crystal reports where-ever he happens to be in the world. From an IT perspective, being able to tie all of this down using Group Policy, AD authentication, and NTFS permissions will be an added bonus for security and manageability :)

Keep hating :)
WOW! I have seen trolls before, but you really take the cake!

If you are stupid enough to think that ONLY business people will be using the new OS, think again. Some will buy it for a home PC and THAT is where the headaches will start!

Get it through you head...for a PC a closed system WILL NOT WORK!

It simply won't. If MS does go to a completely closed system, I give it a couple of days or less before it's jailbroken. Because most people don't like being told what they can and cannot do with their PC's! Or even tablets or phones for that matter.

I have a jailbroken IPhone 3 that works the way I want it to and I use the carrier that I want to use. But Apple tried to stop this by taking it to the courts and getting the courts to make jailbreaking illegal. Thankfully, someone with a brain did not let apple have it's way, saying that people SHOULD be ALLOWED to choose the carriers they wanted.

Thus jailbreaking was legal and the only thing apple could do, was to void the warranty, which I could care less!

It all comes down to letting people have choices and people like you make me mad because you are saying we should just take this closed OS crap lying down!

Sorry, I don't think so!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Oct 2012 @ 3:54

298.10.2012 4:40

It will definitely be interesting to see where all this heads in the next few years ... I see there is a lot of stigma to break through, and I guess mobile technology is still in it's infancy. People seem to be becoming emotionally attached to their devices, and simply "hate" any competition that threatens to "change" what they know and love to be true ...

I really do hope that companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and others such as HTC can break through some of this negative stigma and introduce some true competition in the marketplace ... it's definitely an exciting time that we live in :)

Oh thanks for calling me stupid by the way ... I appreciate the encouragement.

3010.10.2012 16:02

Every time I see someone saying that this crap will be great for "enterprise" they always say...
"It is the only way to use a tablet in Enterprise..."

That very well may be true.

But why the hell do you have to ruin my DESKTOP OS?
I could care less about a touch tablet. I don't walk around with my PC while I'm at work. I use my DESKTOP to do WORK.

Hey, make a new OS that can use a mobile OS in a VM.
Or tightly integrate it with the mobile OS.
Either of these would have been fine.

But to turn my DESKTOP into a MOBILE/TOUCH computing system in order to keep up with the "Apples" or to lock up the ecosystem is just going to PISS ME OFF!!!


Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

3110.10.2012 16:50

ThePastor, Windows 8 has a desktop as well as the Metro UI. You can switch between the two easily enough when you want to. On my PC, I mostly use the desktop. There's always room for improvement, but the desktop works fine. You have to get used to the lack of a start button, but it's not that difficult.

3210.10.2012 18:25

It isn't the only way you can run a tablet! That is ridiculous at best. In fact you can buy tablets with Windows 7 (RT) on them.

Second, although you maybe able to switch into a regular Desktop UI you should NOT be forced to use that Metro shat!! That is even more ridiculous!!!

The Metro crap is all due to the iCrap crowd and one would hope dumb does not prevail however it seems to be creeping in unfortunately.

3310.10.2012 19:23

Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?

3410.10.2012 19:44

In my Win8 testing I too turned off Metro ... and ran it on a desktop. The backend was strikingly similar to Win7, but seemed to be even lighter and run quicker on the crappy old PC I had it installed on.

I find it so hard to believe that so many people using a technology website like Afterdawn would be so quick to shoot it down and say "I hate it ... I will never touch it again" without even testing it. Maybe you tried the first version of it? That version wasn't the best, and only gave a "taste" of what was to come ... the newer versions are a lot less buggy and I think people will actually get used to the simplicity of Win8 and become even more productive.

That said, I'll likely stick with Win7 on my Desktop for a while because its working fine, but in the future I may ditch laptops for a Win8 tablet like the Microsoft Surface or it's variants ... what a pleasure to travel with :)

3510.10.2012 20:31

All pundits point to the idea that Microsoft is "moving away" from Desktop to a more "mobile" centric system. Windows 8 is an "in-between" OS meant to wean you off of your desktop and onto a mobile device. I don't think there is any doubt that this is in direct response to the iPadification of the computing world. It's sad, really. The industry is taking away your wide open and infinitely customization desktop and replacing it with a severely restricted, DRM laden closed eco-system "device" and they're doing it by convincing you that it's the cool thing to do.
Windows 8 won't do it. It will just be a toe in the door, but there is no doubt that this is where it's headed.
Think you can install that torrent client on your new Windows 10 "PowerTab"? Think of all of the shareware/freeware that you use on your PC and then imagine it after Windows is required to vet it all.

As for the Metro UI. I've used the beta, and yes, you can get the desktop, but most configurations were done in Metro. Most "Windows" things were done in Metro. Charms and hot corners and all that crap which is useless without touch.

Imagine being a phone tech support person trying to explain to a complete novice user how to navigate the Metro interface. It will be a nightmare!

These things do not just "happen". They have a purpose.
The purpose of Windows 8 is to move YOU away from your open and non-proprietary system into a controlled system where everything can be monetized and vetted.

After all, That's how Apple does it. It MUST be the right thing to do.


Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

3610.10.2012 21:00

Originally posted by SoTired:
Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?
You just said we are, as you boot into Metro, that is forced to use Metro. What you do from there is another thing but you can't boot into Windows!

Not the sharpest bulb in the bunch I'd say....

3710.10.2012 21:19

Change hurts

3810.10.2012 21:57

play nice children!!!

3910.10.2012 22:49

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by SoTired:
Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?
You just said we are, as you boot into Metro, that is forced to use Metro. What you do from there is another thing but you can't boot into Windows!

Not the sharpest bulb in the bunch I'd say....
Clicking through the Metro Screen on the way to the desktop is less effort than typing your name and password into the login screen. In that situation, you don't "use" Metro; you simply click through it.

But regardless of what verb you choose to use, I am a little surprised that anyone would be so exasperated by the fact that they have to click through the Metro screen on the way to the desktop that they would take the time to rant on the internet about how "ridiculous" it is.

Those of us who have better things to do -- such as jobs -- and enough sense not to mix our metaphors, will probably live with the minor inconvenience of the click-through until Microsoft comes out with a patch that provides the option of going directly to the desktop from the login screen.

4011.10.2012 8:17

Originally posted by ThePastor:
Every time I see someone saying that this crap will be great for "enterprise" they always say...
"It is the only way to use a tablet in Enterprise..."

That very well may be true.

But why the hell do you have to ruin my DESKTOP OS?
I could care less about a touch tablet. I don't walk around with my PC while I'm at work. I use my DESKTOP to do WORK.

Hey, make a new OS that can use a mobile OS in a VM.
Or tightly integrate it with the mobile OS.
Either of these would have been fine.

But to turn my DESKTOP into a MOBILE/TOUCH computing system in order to keep up with the "Apples" or to lock up the ecosystem is just going to PISS ME OFF!!!


Use windows 7. Problem solved. No one is forcing you to use a newer os.


This is superman

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