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Goldman Sachs: PlayStation 4 could 'cause downward spiral' for Sony

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 24 Feb 2013 0:23 User comments (29)

Goldman Sachs: PlayStation 4 could 'cause downward spiral' for Sony Goldman Sachs had some harsh words for the PlayStation 4 and its parent, Sony.
The bank's lead analyst Takashi Watanabe (of Goldman Sachs Japan), says the console could send Sony into a "downward spiral."

"In addition to dedicated consoles, we see little reason for developers to produce top titles for platforms with a low installed base; in turn there is a danger the installed base will not grow because the content lineup is weak," reads Watanabe's note.

Additionally, the analyst says the console's incompatibility with PS3 games is a huge disadvantage.

Outside of those harsh words, he did see some positive, including "the introduction of software development-friendly architecture and easy access to premium games such as Diablo Ⅲ." The analyst also believes the console could be a success if Sony markets it as a home entertainment center rather than a gaming console.

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29 user comments

124.2.2013 0:53

i'm new at this so guide me.with your comments.

224.2.2013 1:29

As though anyone at Goldman Sachs knows a damn thing about anything (that isn't how to get away w/ screwing people over)???

324.2.2013 4:27

This isn't really news made for the consumer or gamer. It's news basically made for people in the stock market.

424.2.2013 8:20

Everything this guy is saying is what Sony did with the PS3, it started off as an entertainment settop box that does games as well.

Many 360 people said this is stupid who want to do anything but play games on a console.

Then Sony pushed the blueray side of the PS3 and now it's a case of it's the only console that gets new games on it now.

Also this guy somewhat forgets that Sony besides a console maker, is also a content producer so Sony providing games to the PS4 isn't much of a problem really.

Where as Microsoft who has closed it's games division completely now after doing it partly twice yet on the 3rd time has shut down all of it and makes nothing for the 360, has to rely on 3rd parties to make anything for the 360 or anything new they release.

524.2.2013 8:29

Originally posted by xtago:
Where as Microsoft who has closed it's games division completely now after doing it partly twice yet on the 3rd time has shut down all of it and makes nothing for the 360
Where do you get this information from?

624.2.2013 9:30

Originally posted by xtago:


Where as Microsoft who has closed it's games division completely now after doing it partly twice yet on the 3rd time has shut down all of it and makes nothing for the 360, has to rely on 3rd parties to make anything for the 360 or anything new they release.

Have you ever heard of 343? Also the 360 was meant as a media device, not just a game console from the outset. Not that I'm singing Microsoft's praises but your information is a little off.

724.2.2013 10:14

Either or, game companies saw huge success once upon a time strictly from just hard-core gamers during pre-multi-media consoles. Sony is saying here is a multi-media console and telling the hardcore gamers first, "We did not forget about you; if not for you, PS brand would not have existed,"

If you take away the gimmicks, the gadgets, the media tools, the movies and the music; had a gaming machine meant for gaming streamed or on disk, the truth is, the system would sell if you had the titles to back it. That quality proved true with the PS1.

But since then, the multi-media box has been over-crowded the games market imo: as although nice to have on a console, I always believed it wrong to make that the primary focus of what clearly was a gaming machine. Goldman Sachs is concerned because during Sony's conference they alienated the people who are entertained by music and movies; but did they? What more do you need to know other than it will work as it did on PS3, but with a new interface? Did they need to spend an hour over how movies will interact with your device? Did they need to spend an hour showcasing how move will integrate into PS IV when it will function the same as it did on PS3? When it's time will MS need to spend an hour teaching us how to use Kinect with 720? The answer is no.

Something tells me PS IV will do better than the Wii-U on its launch, only time will tell tho; MS could have an ace up on their sleeve they been silent about. They better, or hands down so far Sony has it. The only other thing Sony could have done to make the PS IV a domination sensation is to open it up like OUYA, and tell the hacking community, "We know you are going to do this anyways, so here you go"

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2013 @ 10:15

824.2.2013 11:27

Goldman Sachs is teh downward spiral of the financial industry....we in the hell did we not jail them all I will never understand..... fcking treason all around.......

That aside.....


I hope it dose take them down, its the most anti consumer thing yet.....

924.2.2013 11:36

true

1024.2.2013 12:42

So no new games from Goldman Sachs then?

1124.2.2013 13:47

Is it me or do Game Analysts love to just spread FUD and in the end most of it is way over exaggerated and almost never comes true. They have become like the nuts that spread information about the end of the world that never seems to happen.


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1224.2.2013 14:27

Goldman Sachs on tech issues. What the hell are they trying to get.....

1324.2.2013 16:01

These are game systems nothing more, Yes they can stream video, and audio. But still there just game systems with an addon really.

and i agree I dont see no reason to even buy one, They arent gonna be able to play ps3 titles, and devs will probebly stick with the ps3 for a while after the ps4, just because I bet there will be little interest in it. I mean really, why would John Doe , who lives out in the boonies, with no internet, and dont buy games brand new, but buys them used from friends or gamestop etc, Go out and spend $500.00 on a brand new game system. then another $60.00 a pop on each game he wants. Beats the game in a week, and cant even sell it.

I sure the hell wont buy a ps4 any time soon. The ps3 will be the the ps2 and be pretty popular way after, Common sense- Cant play used games no brainer, dont buy.

1424.2.2013 17:07

"Goldman Sachs: PlayStation 4 could 'cause downward spiral' for Sony"

GOOD.....I hate Sony.

1524.2.2013 17:17

yep Sony have never done this before have they lol 3rd transition.

the good hope they fail stuff is sad & nasty.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2013 @ 17:19

1624.2.2013 18:13

Originally posted by xtago:
Everything this guy is saying is what Sony did with the PS3, it started off as an entertainment settop box that does games as well.

Many 360 people.............etc etc
I know some fanboy types can't stand to read this sort of thing but there really is no point in trying to shoehorn this into the standard Xbox v PS argument.

This is a comment for investors.
Yes I know all about Goldman Sachs and the financial lunacy they & those like them engaged in creating the current global financial mess.

But this is aimed at investors who may or may not be interested in putting their money into Sony
(who, as a link I put up a while back showed get most of their earnings now from financial products, not consumer electronics).

The fact is Sony are in a mess right now & the boost the Playstation brand once gave (with PS1 & PS2) is notable by its absence.
PS3 makes a little margin now (but that's on a much reduced price) and it cost a huge amount in R&D it will never return.
Ditto Blu-ray, yes it's probably doing ok now but again on a much smaller price-ticket & it will probably never repay the initial costs.

It really is open to question whether Sony stay in the CE business at all.
They have made vast losses in the last 5yrs and any return to profit is minute when set against this.
They are in big trouble and it is very questionable whether PS4 is going to be much help.



1724.2.2013 20:46

The problem both sony & ms face is the competition they both face from hand held devices which have ultimate portability not to mention having ever increasing power @ an ever increasing rate & ever increasing storage capability ,coupled with sales of mini games which is huge & now with the advent of quad core units outputting 1080 you can add movies to that list is it any wonder its a struggle for them,just look around how many people do you see walking along with head down looking at the screen of their portable device,ok most will be txt'g however you get my point


1824.2.2013 21:13

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/...E91606I20130207 doing much better.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 24 Feb 2013 @ 21:14

1924.2.2013 21:50

The device that PLAYS USED GAMES is the device that will win wether it is xbox or playstation.....most people are simply not going to pay for a device that they cannot play used games on. Simple.

2025.2.2013 10:03

Originally posted by scorpNZ:
sales of mini games which is huge & now with the advent of quad core units outputting 1080
Correct. Tablet & phone games are only going to get bigger & bigger.

With TV also settling resolution at 1080p (at best) for the next umteen years I suspect more than a few are going to be underwhelmed by the PS4 & next Xbox.
Especially if they price themselves way above the Wii U.

Once again, as far as consoles are concerned, Nintendo might well turn out to have picked the winning combo this time out.

(personally I don't see 4K as amounting to much in the mass-market, not until it gets to the point where it's just built in and not a feature, bit like 3D)


2125.2.2013 15:30

Originally posted by joebloe12:
The device that PLAYS USED GAMES is the device that will win wether it is xbox or playstation.....most people are simply not going to pay for a device that they cannot play used games on. Simple.
I think Sony confirmed that it will NOT block used games with the PS4 but the fact that you cannot play your PS3 game library is a deal breaker for many. I think a new console should be backwards compatible at least one generation behind.

They talk about streaming games but I do not think that is a good idea either.

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2225.2.2013 21:51

Originally posted by bobiroc:
Originally posted by joebloe12:
The device that PLAYS USED GAMES is the device that will win wether it is xbox or playstation.....most people are simply not going to pay for a device that they cannot play used games on. Simple.
I think Sony confirmed that it will NOT block used games with the PS4 but the fact that you cannot play your PS3 game library is a deal breaker for many. I think a new console should be backwards compatible at least one generation behind.

They talk about streaming games but I do not think that is a good idea either.
If I missed the point, please accept y apologies early. What if through PSN, you were to confirm a genuine copy of a PS3 game. After this confirmation you can play on PS4. Or even if you were to load the game i nthe PS4 and have it confirmed the genuine copy of it.

I realize there are holes in my statement and my rational of thinking on this topic, but there might be ways we are not aware of. Or do what I do, and hold on to the old stuff. Hell, I still have coleco vision. Which I love to play donkey kong and turbo on.

2325.2.2013 23:22

Originally posted by molsen:
Originally posted by bobiroc:
Originally posted by joebloe12:
The device that PLAYS USED GAMES is the device that will win wether it is xbox or playstation.....most people are simply not going to pay for a device that they cannot play used games on. Simple.
I think Sony confirmed that it will NOT block used games with the PS4 but the fact that you cannot play your PS3 game library is a deal breaker for many. I think a new console should be backwards compatible at least one generation behind.

They talk about streaming games but I do not think that is a good idea either.
If I missed the point, please accept y apologies early. What if through PSN, you were to confirm a genuine copy of a PS3 game. After this confirmation you can play on PS4. Or even if you were to load the game i nthe PS4 and have it confirmed the genuine copy of it.

I realize there are holes in my statement and my rational of thinking on this topic, but there might be ways we are not aware of. Or do what I do, and hold on to the old stuff. Hell, I still have coleco vision. Which I love to play donkey kong and turbo on.
Well with the change in chip architecture there would have to be some sort of emulation done I would assume. In the Q&A it was stated that the games would be streamed and not downloaded and locally stored and no answers given on if a person owned the game before if they would be allowed to stream for free or a discount.

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2426.2.2013 1:31

Originally posted by xbkrypt0n:
Originally posted by xtago:
Where as Microsoft who has closed it's games division completely now after doing it partly twice yet on the 3rd time has shut down all of it and makes nothing for the 360
Where do you get this information from?
Just what Microsoft does, they look at a market see some coin in it and if they want in on that market, they just make up software or hardware that will do the exact same thing as the leading company then try to buy out that company, if they can't. They will buy out everything they can so they force people into buying their product.

Now with the MS "games" division back in the late 80's they bought out the Flight sim software and couple other games along the way to show off that windows 3.1 could do games as well as Dos.

They dropped everything bar the flight sim software, when the Xbox came out they bought out Bungie, to which MS scraped the PC version of Halo, which if you wanted Halo you had to buy a Xbox to play it, many PC players at the time didn't like it.

They also bought out a few other games companies that were big at the time, but ended up shutting them down and just kept bungie, then moved into the 360 as everyone will know MS bought out companies that made PS games mainly or shifted them onto the 360 only, while also paying for timed exclusives.

To where today MS is only fussed about kinect games and have pretty much closed all the game devs they had, even flight sim has been sold off to lockheed and renamed it to prepar3d in 2009, and what ever is left seems to be making game apps for phones or kids games for kinect.

2526.2.2013 1:43

Originally posted by Interestx:
Originally posted by xtago:
Everything this guy is saying is what Sony did with the PS3, it started off as an entertainment settop box that does games as well.

Many 360 people.............etc etc
I know some fanboy types can't stand to read this sort of thing but there really is no point in trying to shoehorn this into the standard Xbox v PS argument.

This is a comment for investors.
Yes I know all about Goldman Sachs and the financial lunacy they & those like them engaged in creating the current global financial mess.

But this is aimed at investors who may or may not be interested in putting their money into Sony
(who, as a link I put up a while back showed get most of their earnings now from financial products, not consumer electronics).

The fact is Sony are in a mess right now & the boost the Playstation brand once gave (with PS1 & PS2) is notable by its absence.
PS3 makes a little margin now (but that's on a much reduced price) and it cost a huge amount in R&D it will never return.
Ditto Blu-ray, yes it's probably doing ok now but again on a much smaller price-ticket & it will probably never repay the initial costs.

It really is open to question whether Sony stay in the CE business at all.
They have made vast losses in the last 5yrs and any return to profit is minute when set against this.
They are in big trouble and it is very questionable whether PS4 is going to be much help.



Lol not a fanboy here.

I just find it odd that goldman scachs is saying the PS4 will fail because they aren't selling it as a entrainment box when all the hardcore people who actually buy the thing will buy it for the games.

While I agree about the investor thing I don't agree with Sony doing bad certains parts of the world will be going up and down and parts of the company will be doing good and bad.

With this being US based it's probably not worldwide and only based on the US Sony shares.

2626.2.2013 8:38

I can not foresee the PS4 doing that bad. I mean most people in Japan just buy Sony consoles. Sony also has a ton of popular exclusives. I think the PS4 will still sell great even with all the crap that went down with the PS3. I think Microsoft has a big advantage with nothing confirmed yet. I have a feeling they where waiting to see if the parts they have will not be as underpowered as there competition.

I also think this generation the big 3 have to play a big game and bring the competition to the max. People can't afford to buy multiple consoles anymore. They have to really zone in and give both the hardcore and core market what they want from a console. Also having games for your console that are worth the price tag and not just another title with a higher number slapped on it.

2726.2.2013 11:34

Originally posted by xtago:


Lol not a fanboy here.
Correct, I own both Xbox & PS3.

Originally posted by xtago:

I just find it odd that goldman scachs is saying the PS4 will fail because they aren't selling it as a entrainment box when all the hardcore people who actually buy the thing will buy it for the games.
Perhaps that's because 'hardcore gamers' are no longer as important or relevant as they like to imagine themselves?

Wii (like phones & tablets) has opened up new markets which are not only far larger than the self styled 'hardcore' but are also growing (ie making money) in a way the 'hardcore' is not.

Without the boost 'casual gamers' (as the self-styled hardcore often seem to love to sneer) many devs would be in serious trouble or have simply vanished.

Originally posted by xtago:
While I agree about the investor thing I don't agree with Sony doing bad certains parts of the world will be going up and down and parts of the company will be doing good and bad.
Put it like this, things are so bad Sony had to sell off its Manhatten HQ to raise $1.1 billion.
(and yes, they publicly said it was done to raise cash)

That's not a symptom of a company doing well.....and it is not being a fanboy to point this out.
They said it.

Originally posted by xtago:
With this being US based it's probably not worldwide and only based on the US Sony shares.

I think you'll find investors all over take notice of what people like Goldman say.
That and the years of dire financial results (for the Sony Corp overall, not just in the USA).
Plus things like Sony having to admit that they needed to raise a lot of money and chose to do it very publicly flogging off their US HQ building.

Still, if you think it's being a fanboy knowing & saying this stuff in an article about advice to investors about Sony's future then pay no attention.
It's your call whether to inform yourself or stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and shout to drown out any comment you don't want to hear.

That's what I'd call being a true fanboy, wouldn't you?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 26 Feb 2013 @ 11:36

2827.2.2013 5:13

Sony has been in a downward spiral for quite a while now, and it's internal disputes aren't helping either.

I'll edit in a link later, gotta go to bed now.



2928.2.2013 22:32

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Goldman Sachs is teh downward spiral of the financial industry....we in the hell did we not jail them all I will never understand..... fcking treason all around.......

That aside.....


I hope it dose take them down, its the most anti consumer thing yet.....

They are a part of the Federal Reserve system, in a manner of speaking, which is why they get away with murder and get to insure other peoples bad loans.

Quote:
"In addition to dedicated consoles, we see little reason for developers to produce top titles for platforms with a low installed base; in turn there is a danger the installed base will not grow because the content lineup is weak,"
I've been saying this basically for some time now.

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