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Apple's secret weapon against missing fingerprint reader revealed?

Written by Matti Vähäkainu (Google+) @ 04 Jul 2017 11:11 User comments (21)

Apple's secret weapon against missing fingerprint reader revealed? The rumors of the upcoming iPhone have been going wild for a few months now, and there's only a few things they seem to be focusing on. One is the display, which according to most rumors covers the whole front panel. The second one is the placement of a fingerprint reader and other possible biometric sensors.
Now it is rumored that Apple will be adding a new type of sensor in their future iPhone which might remove the need for fingerprint reader altogether. A front-facing 3D camera will supposedly scan your face and log you in not only to your phone but to Apple Pay as well.

Traditional face recognition is not very reliable and earlier implementations by the likes of Samsung have been fooled by photos for example but this new technology is said to be secure enough to use for online payment.

According to Bloomberg, the new technology is so capable that is can read your face even if the phone is laying on the table and not pointing straight at you. Apple is also said to be considering adding iris scanning to the system.

The sources tell that this 3D face recognition is even more secure than the fingerprint as it is based on more data points. However, the technology is still in development and might not be ready for the next iPhones that will be revealed in just couple of months.

So it seems that we still have no idea how Apple is going to tackle the problem of an Galaxy S8-like "Infinity Display" and biometric sensing. Fingerprint reader in the back? Under the display? Or something completely different?

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21 user comments

16.7.2017 11:42

Yeah......been there done that.

NOBODY will accept having to point the f'ing phone at your own face for 10-30 seconds with constant adjustments just so it can detect who the hell you actually are so the phone will unlock.

I mean, facial rec would have to be within a millisecond to be pragmatic for most to use.

PIN all the way!

DON'T LOSE YOUR PHONES!!!!!!!!!!!!

27.7.2017 18:21

If it could be done reliably within a second or two I think most people would accept that...and it could be done that fast. If apple can make it both secure and fast in time for the next iPhone...that's a whole other question.

38.7.2017 12:13

And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

48.7.2017 20:15

Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?

59.7.2017 12:05

Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?
Okay @ssh0le, I know full well how this tech could work if it has true 3D tracking. You might assume I'm a noob here since I haven't spoken up before but I've followed this site loyally since before you were probably born. This is the first topic that I felt the need to speak up about because the implications behind it are creepy and huge. (or should I say 'YUUUUUGE' for someone like you to can understand?)

So thanks to your idiotic response I will now go to the trouble to reiterate in more simple detail in the attempt to try and clarify my stance...

What is stopping someone from waking up (unlocking) your phone while you're asleep or in a drunken slumber in your case?! Companies already obsessively follow us around and track our habits so they can try and sell us something on top of what we're there to buy and it's only getting worse by the moment. I know we don't have the full details on this technology just yet but I can only begin to imagine how it could and eventually WOULD be used in inappropriate ways which is why this article caught my attention.

Also I feel the need to add..., I absolutely wish I looked like my girlfriend! She's intelligent, stunningly beautiful and has tits that I'd play with non-stop if I had them all to myself behind closed doors. (You should know, she already lets me play with them plenty often, but for reals if that were the case I'd never get anything accomplished!)

Seriously what was the point of your post other than to be an absolute TROLL?! You're lucky I'm not an administrator on this site, because you'd be instantly banned and then would have to deal with me on the side if you ever wanted access again. It's really sad to see someone respond in such a nonintellectual manner, especially on a tech site like this. To me what you posted it's just internet garbage. I follow the internets and tech industries obsessively, and this one article simply stood out to me because of how it could be potentially used in an inappropriate manner.

Plus, you spelled 'what' wrong! What is the point behind going to the effort of insulting someone in the comment section while misspelling a short 4 letter word when your finger could just as easily punched the CORRECT letter on the keyboard instead?? Makes you sound dumm and ignant.

Seriously, please don't ever talk to me again...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jul 2017 @ 12:36

69.7.2017 12:12

Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?
Okay @ssh0le, I know full well how this tech could work if it has true 3D tracking. You might assume I'm a noob here since I haven't spoken up before but I've followed this site loyally since before you were probably born. This is the first topic that I felt the need to speak up about because the implications behind it are creepy and huge. (or should I say 'YUUUUUGE' for someone like you so you can understand?)

So thanks to your idiotic response I will now go to the trouble to reiterate in more simple detail in the attempt to try and clarify my stance...

What is stopping someone from waking up (unlocking) your phone while you're asleep or in a drunken slumber in your case?! Companies already follow us around and track our habits so they can try and sell us something on top of what we're there to buy and it's only getting worse by the moment. I know we don't have the full details on this technology just yet but I can only begin to imagine how it could and eventually WOULD be used in inappropriate ways which is why this article caught my attention.

Also I feel the need to add..., I absolutely wish I looked like my girlfriend! She's intelligent, stunningly beautiful and has tits that I'd play with non-stop if I had them all to myself behind closed doors. (You should know, she already lets me play with them plenty often, but for reals I were in a case like that, then I'd never get anything accomplished!)

Seriously what was the point of your post other than to be an absolute TROLL?! You're lucky I'm not an administrator on this site, because you'd be instantly banned and then would have to deal with me on the side. It's really sad to see someone respond in such a nonintellectual manner, especially on a tech site like this. To me what you posted it's just internet garbage. I follow the internets and tech industries obsessively, and this one article simply stood out to me because of how it could be potentially used in an inappropriate manner.

Plus, you spelled 'what' wrong! What is the point behind going to the effort of insulting someone in the comment section while misspelling a short 4 letter word when your finger could just as easily punched the CORRECT letter on the keyboard instead?? Makes you sound dumm and ignant.

Seriously, please don't ever talk to me again...

Die in a fire; you posted in a public forum and got a public response. Sorry, you're not forum staff, YOU have no say in the matter, once you post. Deal with it or don't, that's on YOU; it's simple fact.

b) "What is stopping someone from waking up (unlocking) your phone while you're asleep or in a drunken slumber in your case?!" Why, that would be security, and in the case of this article, it would be the facial recognition system being discussed.

c) No one was insulting you, idiot, until just now. I merely pointed out, with a silly spelling of "what", the fact that your girlfriend would not be able to unlock your phone, assuming this technology works as advertised. Would you care to explain how this is untrue, UNLESS she looks exactly like you? Well...? Turns out, even if "whut" WAS a typo, you'd still be an idiot =) .

d) Considering I'm over 45 (47, to be specific), no, you haven't been following this site since before I was born. Nor am I intimidated by loud idiots flying off the handle, I'll add.

Tl;dr? Wow, you went really far out of your way to make a complete fool and ass of yourself in public, didn't you? Nice!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jul 2017 @ 12:24

79.7.2017 12:17

TLDR, absolutely saw that one coming from someone with your intelligence level! Seriously I don't want to see another comment from you again.

89.7.2017 12:19

Sorry, but no. You still need to explain how facial recognition will allow your girlfriend to unlock your phone =) . Hint: It won't, unless the implementation is terrible; even though I'm not especially fond of Apple, I doubt they'd let that happen.

You fail utterly, nitwit. And yes, I knew perfectly well, you'd try to take the coward's way out of your silly boondoggle xD . And again, no, you don't control a thing I do, so feel free to insist whatever you like; I enjoy watching idiots attempt futile tasks.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jul 2017 @ 12:20

99.7.2017 12:30

We don't know just yet how the tech will work, but the fact behind the cam constantly being on and scanning for our face is beyond scary. Hell, with a fingerprint scanner I could already press it against my girlfriends finger while she's asleep and wake up the phone if I wanted to. That wasn't the point of my post. I feel the tech is completely unnecessary and frankly extremely creepy. I also feel similarly about you.

I really am done here. I do hope an admin pops in and limits your future posts. As I already said I haven't spoken up in the past and have no problem doing the same in the future. My point has been made and if I met you in a crosswalk I honestly would not slow down.

109.7.2017 12:37

The only one seeing admin action here will be YOU, point of fact, if that happens. And yes, you're quite done here, although not for the reasons you insist =) .

And of course you wouldn't slow down if you met me in a crosswalk, dolt; we each have no idea what the other looks like. You don't bother to vet your posts very much, do you..?

Now, if you had made the above post initially, you might have had a point to make. What stopped you? What made you feel like acting the ponce was going to get you somewhere? Good luck with that mess; you probably should refrain from posting anywhere at all.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jul 2017 @ 12:38

119.7.2017 12:42

I hope you feel better about yourself, I'm still smiling! LMAO

Toodles

129.7.2017 12:53

Never had a problem with myself, thanks for the concern. YOU, however, need to learn basic conversation skills. The posts are up there in black-and-white for all to see, no matter how you rage, preen, or otherwise act out your drama for others =).

139.7.2017 15:33

Alright, I concede. Now that I've managed to get some sleep and had the chance to re-read my original post in a calmer and more cognizant manner I realize I was wrong and this is how I'm going to end it.

You were absolutely a prick in your commentary for picking on my grammar when it was obvious what I was saying in a short, simple comment, however I will admit that in retaliation I went over the top.

Still, I pwned you and you and the rest of the world knows it!

Reading comprehension FTW ROFLMFAO ROXORZ and WTF ever else you want to throw into the bin...

If I ever make a post here again I'll make sure to dew it in 1337 speak just for you, BRO.

;) :P

149.7.2017 16:03

I actually never once picked on your grammar or spelling, silly. That was, in fact, only you. Try finding the quote (of course, you won't be able to).

By the by, not too many adults give much of a crap what you think you "pwned", child. And you also are the only one here devolving to "1337 speak", as well, "bro". Nor are you going to be successful at controlling how/when I post, of course, your tantrums aside.

Stick a binkie in it.

1511.7.2017 10:36

Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?
So, I don't normally get into the comments section on articles, especially when they are contentious, but I felt compelled to post something here. Despite mrblackc2017's obvious love for the dramatic, I think you completely missed his point on this one. Obviously he doesn't look exactly like his girlfriend, that doesn't even matter. I believe he was stating that what's to stop someone from grabbing your phone when you are unaware and then unlocking it with this technology by simply having it scan your face.

I.E. mrblackc2017 is turned in for the night. Sleeping so soundly from a hard day at work and play. His girlfriend, as ladies are sometimes wont to do, gets a bit curious about what could be on his phone. So, she grabs it off the nightstand and unlocks it by having it scan HIS sleeping face, not hers, because scanning her own face would be incredibly stupid and not work at all which should go without saying. This would then provide her the unfettered access she so desperately desired.

Now, fast forward that to a more serious scenario, where you are apprehended by the police for a suspected crime. You know you are innocent but you need your attorney to have adequate legal representation. The cops obviously think you are guilty since you are sitting there cuffed to a chair. No real proof has been provided that you are a criminal and you have yet to have legal representation; however, the cops have your phone and want to look at it hoping they could find something incriminating against you. Who needs a warrant when all they need to do is have you cuffed to a chair while they use the face recognizing technology on your phone to unlock it in your presence? More times than not, cops just get a slap on the wrist, if that even, when they breach the warrant obtaining step to try and put people away. This is not okay, but this technology could possibly be abused for something like that.

This right here is but one example of why this kind of technology is a bit scary and should be thought about extensively before simply being implemented. There are repercussions out there right now that no one could possibly know about with this kind of power.

Instead of taking this opportunity to have a logical discussion about whether or not anyone should be worried about that kind of thing, you come in here and stink up the place with your frat boy mentality bullshit comment “*chortle chortle, hur dur* you look exactly like your girlfriend?”. This kind of community response is why I don’t typically get involved in online discussions.

1611.7.2017 11:16

And he simply could have said so. Sorry, not interested.

It was a simple remark; you can cram the "frat boy" BS right back into whatever stinky hole you got it from. I'm not interested in the insecurities of either one of you. Good day to you.

1711.7.2017 21:24

Originally posted by SludgeFactory:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?
So, I don't normally get into the comments section on articles, especially when they are contentious, but I felt compelled to post something here. Despite mrblackc2017's obvious love for the dramatic, I think you completely missed his point on this one. Obviously he doesn't look exactly like his girlfriend, that doesn't even matter. I believe he was stating that what's to stop someone from grabbing your phone when you are unaware and then unlocking it with this technology by simply having it scan your face.

I.E. mrblackc2017 is turned in for the night. Sleeping so soundly from a hard day at work and play. His girlfriend, as ladies are sometimes wont to do, gets a bit curious about what could be on his phone. So, she grabs it off the nightstand and unlocks it by having it scan HIS sleeping face, not hers, because scanning her own face would be incredibly stupid and not work at all which should go without saying. This would then provide her the unfettered access she so desperately desired.

Now, fast forward that to a more serious scenario, where you are apprehended by the police for a suspected crime. You know you are innocent but you need your attorney to have adequate legal representation. The cops obviously think you are guilty since you are sitting there cuffed to a chair. No real proof has been provided that you are a criminal and you have yet to have legal representation; however, the cops have your phone and want to look at it hoping they could find something incriminating against you. Who needs a warrant when all they need to do is have you cuffed to a chair while they use the face recognizing technology on your phone to unlock it in your presence? More times than not, cops just get a slap on the wrist, if that even, when they breach the warrant obtaining step to try and put people away. This is not okay, but this technology could possibly be abused for something like that.

This right here is but one example of why this kind of technology is a bit scary and should be thought about extensively before simply being implemented. There are repercussions out there right now that no one could possibly know about with this kind of power.

Instead of taking this opportunity to have a logical discussion about whether or not anyone should be worried about that kind of thing, you come in here and stink up the place with your frat boy mentality bullshit comment “*chortle chortle, hur dur* you look exactly like your girlfriend?”. This kind of community response is why I don’t typically get involved in online discussions.

If you have a safe with a key, the police can take the key from you and open it against your will. If you have a safe with a combination they can't force you to give them a combination. In some cases they can go to extra steps to have it cracked, but that's a whole extra mess for them, that doesn't always fit with the original search warrant or whatever excuse they used to come in against your will in the first place. Oddly, this sometimes means that a $100 combo safe that opens if you drop it from 3 feet is better protection than a $10k key safe that a professional locksmith would struggle with.

If your phone has a physical password, be it fingerprint or face or even a retinal scan, then it isn't safe from police, even the most honest cops. Obviously there are cops that could probably extract a password from you as well...but if they are willing to do that, they are also willing to say they found drugs on you so you are screwed either way.

1811.7.2017 23:23

play nice as I'm watching tho I see no harm right yet mrblackc2017 but do watch the name calling as I have banned for less.

1914.7.2017 10:01

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by SludgeFactory:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Originally posted by mrblackc2017:
And then when you have a girlfriend like me she'll unlock my phone while I'm asleep and see all the terrible things I do on my phone. At first glance it sounds kinda cool, but once you think about the implications... Just sayin'

Um, whut? You look exactly like your girlfriend..?

You realize this is about facial recognition used as security, correct?
So, I don't normally get into the comments section on articles, especially when they are contentious, but I felt compelled to post something here. Despite mrblackc2017's obvious love for the dramatic, I think you completely missed his point on this one. Obviously he doesn't look exactly like his girlfriend, that doesn't even matter. I believe he was stating that what's to stop someone from grabbing your phone when you are unaware and then unlocking it with this technology by simply having it scan your face.

I.E. mrblackc2017 is turned in for the night. Sleeping so soundly from a hard day at work and play. His girlfriend, as ladies are sometimes wont to do, gets a bit curious about what could be on his phone. So, she grabs it off the nightstand and unlocks it by having it scan HIS sleeping face, not hers, because scanning her own face would be incredibly stupid and not work at all which should go without saying. This would then provide her the unfettered access she so desperately desired.

Now, fast forward that to a more serious scenario, where you are apprehended by the police for a suspected crime. You know you are innocent but you need your attorney to have adequate legal representation. The cops obviously think you are guilty since you are sitting there cuffed to a chair. No real proof has been provided that you are a criminal and you have yet to have legal representation; however, the cops have your phone and want to look at it hoping they could find something incriminating against you. Who needs a warrant when all they need to do is have you cuffed to a chair while they use the face recognizing technology on your phone to unlock it in your presence? More times than not, cops just get a slap on the wrist, if that even, when they breach the warrant obtaining step to try and put people away. This is not okay, but this technology could possibly be abused for something like that.

This right here is but one example of why this kind of technology is a bit scary and should be thought about extensively before simply being implemented. There are repercussions out there right now that no one could possibly know about with this kind of power.

Instead of taking this opportunity to have a logical discussion about whether or not anyone should be worried about that kind of thing, you come in here and stink up the place with your frat boy mentality bullshit comment “*chortle chortle, hur dur* you look exactly like your girlfriend?”. This kind of community response is why I don’t typically get involved in online discussions.

If you have a safe with a key, the police can take the key from you and open it against your will. If you have a safe with a combination they can't force you to give them a combination. In some cases they can go to extra steps to have it cracked, but that's a whole extra mess for them, that doesn't always fit with the original search warrant or whatever excuse they used to come in against your will in the first place. Oddly, this sometimes means that a $100 combo safe that opens if you drop it from 3 feet is better protection than a $10k key safe that a professional locksmith would struggle with.

If your phone has a physical password, be it fingerprint or face or even a retinal scan, then it isn't safe from police, even the most honest cops. Obviously there are cops that could probably extract a password from you as well...but if they are willing to do that, they are also willing to say they found drugs on you so you are screwed either way.
I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. It is unfortunately all too true; however, facial recognition technology is far more easily abused in my opinion than a PIN number.

I do know of some recent cases where the police could not crack into a phone because they did not have the PIN. One was a high profile case a year or so ago that I just can't quite recall off the top of my head. If I think of it I'll come back here and post a link to the news story unless someone else knows what I am talking about.

2018.7.2017 20:05

Way too much tech at times if smart phones keep getting more intrusive I may just go back to a flip phone as it never gave me any problems and leaks.

2119.7.2017 2:09

Originally posted by SludgeFactory:

I don't disagree with what you are saying at all. It is unfortunately all too true; however, facial recognition technology is far more easily abused in my opinion than a PIN number.

I do know of some recent cases where the police could not crack into a phone because they did not have the PIN. One was a high profile case a year or so ago that I just can't quite recall off the top of my head. If I think of it I'll come back here and post a link to the news story unless someone else knows what I am talking about.
I think it was when the police got the phone from a family member of the Boston Marathon bomber that they started the argument of whether the courts could order Apple to unlock the phone for them.

If not that case, then another terrorism related case. From here in Oz those news reports tend to merge into each other.

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