Virgin Media gives pirates "three strikes and you're out" alternative

why would anyone join this voluntarily?

Wonder how many personal rights and privacy laws they can bend to achieve this?

Well at least they're fair and warn if you've been spotted. Of course Virgin joined cause it has a quite large record label.

I live in the US.

Q1) What happened to habeas corpus ( trial and judgement of guilt prior to punishment)

Q2) If any of the media companies have been found guilty of some sort of wrong doing 3 times, should they be banned from selling goods and services forever? Tit for tat and equality of law.

@iluvendo, this is in the UK, not the US so this shouldn't effect you. I believe this is only effective in the UK.

it is only applicable in the UK - they are my ISP - used to be called telewest then blueyonder then they merged with ntl and were then bought by Virgin - they are cable operators offering phone tv and internet - they actully have the fastest available download speed in the UK with 20 mb connections and no limits so i suppose they are natural first targets for the authorities.

of course it all depends on how many people are dumb enough to still use p2p programs where you can be tracked and caught with your IP details trousers down around your ankles.

hasn't everyone with 2 brain cells switched to encrypted newz servers by now ?

This will probably work until Virgin Media loses too many customers. Imagine if all of their customers were to get booted, sure Virgin wouldn't have to worry about any more pirates, but they wouldn't have to worry about running an ISP any more either. Obviously this is extreme and wouldn't happen, but at what point does disconnecting customers start to hurt their business?

I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers

Originally posted by Pop_Smith:

---

@iluvendo, this is in the UK, not the US so this shouldn't effect you. I believe this is only effective in the UK.

---

Sounds like the beginnings of totalitarianism to me!

Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..

I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS.. the packets still go to your IP and it is easier to pick them out due to the "one at a time" nature of the traffic... How do you know you aren't downloading direct from the content provider anyways? at least on the huge public trackers you have the "safety in numbers" defence that animals have used for millions of years to confuse enemies. On a tracker they have to unequivocally PROVE that something came to my IP and not to something that was spoofed.
This attempted new law is totalitarism, and it signifies the end of the last vestiges of freedom of speech, action or movement in the UK.. which is not a democracy anyway. We have less freedoms now than were in evidence in East Germany when I visited there in the mid 80's
Remember a society that removes freedoms and rights in the name of so called security deserves neither. I would lend my support to any organisation which was planning to overthrow the corrupt system in the UK.. by fair means or foul. I'm going to say that openly now.. while I still can, because when this law IS passed (we the people have no say.. we are not represented) I will not be able to express my dislike of the state, or my desire to see it's ending and replacement with something truly democratic and fair.

I have a big list saved over time of lots of virgin/ntl/blueyonder upstream machines IP's. It's quite easy to organise a rDDos attack using the isp's own machines to dos the others. Wait and see.. Russia and China had a go at each other last weekend using just these tactics. The infrastructure virgin are relying on is mostly antiquated 10+ year old cable tv switching network hardware. It is just soooo easy to take down.

Today it turns up that they are ILLEGALLY blocking certain websites. This is directly breaking the UK freedom of information laws. The three strikes law hasn't been passed yet, it is still in the green paper "consultation" stage where the public DO NOT have the right to see what they are planing. There is a revolution coming, with the invasions of privacy in this surveillance state we have allowed them to create.

Vive la Revolution.. It is coming and it will smash this corrupt system for all time.

Evil exists only when good people do nothing.

Originally posted by domie:

---

I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers

---

It's true they will lose customers, but what happens when it become Mandatory for ever ISP to crack down. Sooner or later the government will make it a rule to monitor and report illegal downloading. This is the country where all the popular music and movies are made. No one cares about illegally downloading Bosnian music, etc. It's all about the big moneymakers.

Originally posted by domie:

---

I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers

---

But they will be saving on bandwidth used..

Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..

I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS.. the packets still go to your IP and it is easier to pick them out due to the "one at a time" nature of the traffic... How do you know you aren't downloading direct from the content provider anyways? at least on the huge public trackers you have the "safety in numbers" defence that animals have used for millions of years to confuse enemies. On a tracker they have to unequivocally PROVE that something came to my IP and not to something that was spoofed.
This attempted new law is totalitarism, and it signifies the end of the last vestiges of freedom of speech, action or movement in the UK.. which is not a democracy anyway. We have less freedoms now than were in evidence in East Germany when I visited there in the mid 80's
Remember a society that removes freedoms and rights in the name of so called security deserves neither. I would lend my support to any organisation which was planning to overthrow the corrupt system in the UK.. by fair means or foul. I'm going to say that openly now.. while I still can, because when this law IS passed (we the people have no say.. we are not represented) I will not be able to express my dislike of the state, or my desire to see it's ending and replacement with something truly democratic and fair.

I have a big list saved over time of lots of virgin/ntl/blueyonder upstream machines IP's. It's quite easy to organise a rDDos attack using the isp's own machines to dos the others. Wait and see.. Russia and China had a go at each other last weekend using just these tactics. The infrastructure virgin are relying on is mostly antiquated 10+ year old cable tv switching network hardware. It is just soooo easy to take down.

Today it turns up that they are ILLEGALLY blocking certain websites. This is directly breaking the UK freedom of information laws. The three strikes law hasn't been passed yet, it is still in the green paper "consultation" stage where the public DO NOT have the right to see what they are planing. There is a revolution coming, with the invasions of privacy in this surveillance state we have allowed them to create.

Vive la Revolution.. It is coming and it will smash this corrupt system for all time.

---

makes me think of the movie "V for Vendetta"

Originally posted by domie:

---

I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers

---

They tried to pull shit like this in canada.. Privacy laws stopped them :).

Originally posted by krj15489:

---

why would anyone join this voluntarily?

---

because bandwidth cost money and virgin are one the the isp's that say you can purchase our product but don't use the bandwidth.

virgin on are one of the worst uk isp's throttling all p2p traffic. they are comparable to pipex(tiscali) tiscali and eclipse internet (tiscali network)

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compar...&commit=Compare

@ iluvendo

we lost our right to habeas corpus under new terrorism laws

http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid=-335...hXoEGld6d7_8Ing

@ domie

virgin are not the fastest isp (click top link) and fall into the list of the worst performing isp in the uk, many isp's including BE unlimited and o2 that offer upto 24mbps with NO p2p traffic management but this may be about to change if virgin ever get their act together with the rumoured 40mbps service.


There may be one redeeming factor for virgin:

Originally posted by above hyperlink:

---

However, all might not be lost for the file-sharer at Virgin Media, especially those who want to max-out their new bandwidth offering. The ISP will be rolling out a new newsgroup service for its subscribers which should be ready in the next couple of months. Using the Highwinds server banks, the service will offer 7 days retention on the all important binary newsgroups. A Virgin spokesman said: “We’re delighted to be working with Highwinds to build out our newsgroup service. Our expanded access to newsgroups will give our customers a free news feed to newsgroups with exceptional retention, providing one of the best free newsgroup services in the UK.”

Not to mention super high speed access to all the movies, music and software anyone could ever need, with no fear that the BPI, RIAA or IFPI can snoop on the transfers.

---

The Newsgroups Intro (Slyck Guide)

im not an expert on this, but i thought thats why tor was created. to protect u from prying eyes.

Originally posted by iluvendo:

---

I live in the US.

Q1) What happened to habeas corpus ( trial and judgement of guilt prior to punishment)

Q2) If any of the media companies have been found guilty of some sort of wrong doing 3 times, should they be banned from selling goods and services forever? Tit for tat and equality of law.

---

Patriot act took away habeas corpus, ah aint it grand what the government is doing to protect us from the unseen?

I've been with Virgin Media now for a number of years (since July 2003, back when it was Blueyonder/Virgin Media) and never had an issue with it. It's a good job we are moving house soon to an area without cable (well maybe not, our ADSL networks are very busy and slow).

Anyone in the UK reccomend a good ISP that offers good speeds and uses ADSL2+. I was looking at https://www.bethere.co.uk/

Originally posted by FreqNasty:

---

Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.

---

Why words exactly!!

The way this works doesn't violate any privacy laws at all. I have already received one of these warnings. I live in Australia though, so this 3 strike policy isn't enforced at this point. However, the warning I got stated that if I continued to download such media, my account may be closed.

The copyright enforcement groups can identify what IP address is downloading their intellectual property through a tracker, from there they submit a report to your internet provider. Your internet provider then forwards on the warning and if your ISP is co-operative enough with the 3 strike rule then they may cancel your account.

This method breaks no privacy laws at all. If your ISP handed over your details, now that would be a different matter altogether. Let's hope that they never obtain the rights to do such things.

People who say that newsgroups are safe etc etc are so gullible.

Nearly as gullible as those music/movie execs who are told that their DRM will stop people copying their work.

If some hacker can get past their millions of pounds worth of drm, why can't they find a way to track down these so called untraceable file sharers.

Also, as far as i am aware virgin media is not linked to virgin records. It was sold off years ago to EMI.

Hey I have a better idea. Why not just let the music industry surgically implant a chip in our bodies and track everything we do.

I mean we pretty much allow them to do anything they want these days anyways.

Originally posted by varnull:

---

Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..

I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS..

---

Actually nothing was posted out in the open. With that particular group (45 members) they were exchanging material via PGP and had to do timed tests (identifying cp) to get into the private trading group. There was some heated discussion in alt.privacy about it. I dont have any pity for those guys..but I bet that in 5 yrs you'll see "mp3" busts, or "iso" busts all the same.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s2181361.htm

Originally posted by DjDanio:

---

People who say that newsgroups are safe etc etc are so gullible.

If some hacker can get past their millions of pounds worth of drm, why can't they find a way to track down these so called untraceable file sharers

---

I don't think anyone is saying that News Groups are safe - nothing involving the downloading of illegal copyrighted material can be considered safe but it sure is a hell of a lot safer than Bit Torrent or EMule or Kazaa etc.
The point is they are not file sharers - that's the beauty of it - apart from the original poster who uploads the file to a news servers , nobody shares anything - it is a direct download and if you pay for an encrypted service then even safer - certainly safer than flashing your IP and filelist on p2p networks.
One look at the legal news on this site will show you where the heat has been in the last years - ed2k, bit torrent, kazaa etc - barely a mention of newsgroups.
Now that may very well change in the future but at the moment it is the safest bet by far.The only newsgroup bust reported here is regarding child pornography and that's not a realistic analogy to claim newsgroups are dangerous - we all know what sweeping powers and interests the police have to bust child porn rings and so they should have but the MPAA and RIAA etc haven't been able to cross the line into newsgroups yet and they are the ones who attack file sharers/downloaders that are non child porn related.

oh great, im with virgin -_-

But just from reading the article, is this only targeting music downloads? doesnt mention anything about movies and games etc.

also, are they not going to fine you for doing this or is it just a matter of losing your service?

I'm with virgin for net, phone and TV - 1 strike and they're out :)

i dont see the point in 20MB broadband if your not gona use it to download torrent,and why are they gona up it to 40MB soon??
if all your aloud to do is surf the web pages and pictures????

couldnt you do that with dial up??
im on virgin media max,its ok at moment,but they restrict torrent downloads in the evening,but unlimited in day...

how the hell are they gona inspect every person on there network,and look at what they download??? wether its legal or not??

would virgin take on this huge challenge,and loose customers let right and center,this is one reason i ever change my isp,they ban torrent downloads... f*$*'rs

Originally posted by akira247:

---

i dont see the point in 20MB broadband if your not gona use it to download torrent,and why are they gona up it to 40MB soon??
if all your aloud to do is surf the web pages and pictures????

---

The main reason for increasing the bandwidth is to allow for streaming video. You can also benefit by downloading legal songs, such as iTunes. In order for Netflix and other video on demand sites to be acceptable, you'll need to have enough bandwidth. Of course, there are other benefits as well, on-line gaming, VoIP, etc..., but video is the big one.

Originally posted by juniR:

---

I'm with virgin for net, phone and TV - 1 strike and they're out :)

---

same here, theres cheaper options out there if they start making threats.
it also passable there just paying lip service to the mafia lobbyists.

I am a virgin customer as well. I noticed that the download speed is
reduced after 17:00 PM and I am really thinking to get a tv with freeview
a BT line and change provider...with unlimited download and no throttle speed.
My curiosity is: if one does not download music but isos for software or games will they strike? in the article it says that the BPI will use a team of technicians to check and enforce the copyrights laws.
I wonder...well if I receive just one letter from them I will change provider....as simple as that and in extreme cases rely on newsgroups

it's a dangerous game for both sides...
for every game there is a rule...you obey it or you bend it but you know what might happen to you if you get caught.
and if you get caught and they ban you, they also lose a customer...
if we're talking money,i think they will think twice before they ban you...( depending on what kind of contract you have with your isp).
the more you pay for your service ( tv + tel + internet),the hardest it's going to be for them to lose you as a customer( or should i say your money...).
we're talking around £ 70-80 / month. now you multiply this by a couple of thouthands,and we start talking big loss of money ( even though they could be giants like virgin,etc... a loss is a loss and they don't like to lose money...:)
tricky problem which i hope will never be put into force.

live and let live...

How dare they set themselves up as judge and jury! How will they know who has been downloading illegally unless they snoop on customers` traffic? Sounds dodgy in the extreme to me, as how will they differentiate between legit stuff, such as Linux distributions, personal files, etc. and the shady stuff? This will only serve to alienate both the ISP`s and the poor, impoverished (not)record companies. Surely there are going to be ways around this, such as encryption?

One ISP is fighting back!

One small step for files sharers, one giant leap for the freedom of information from the spying overseers and the still wannabe gatekeepers of our culture/media.

Carphone Warehouse stares down BPI and UK.gov on three strikes

Originally posted by above hyperlink:

---

Carphone Warehouse has called the government's bluff by stating that it will not cooperate with the record industry to clamp down on copyright infringement over peer-to-peer networks.

In a statement today, CEO Charles Dunstone said: "Our position is very clear, we are the conduit* that gives users access to the Internet, we do not control the Internet nor do we control what our users do on the Internet."

---

what we really need is something to get us round this.ive read of things like peerguardian and other bits of software that block your ip address. do these things work? what i need is some of you computor nerds to knock up some software that works. i would gladly pay a small fee every month for something that works. come someone, theres a way round this, it just needs finding?

I've been looking for a way out of my contract with Virgin media since the day I signed it. Their service is dire & they have the cheeck to expect £50 to cancel in the fist year.
This seems like a way of getting out early for free.
Will they send you a mac code along with the terminiation letter ?

I am with Virgin, So is my neighbor about to get a warning when i use his wireless network to download mp3's?

Originally posted by FreqNasty:

---

Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.

---

Please be more tolerant. Immigrants are more useful to the country than you might think. A little research of the economics will show you why.

Originally posted by oxosbase:

---

what we really need is something to get us round this.ive read of things like peerguardian and other bits of software that block your ip address. do these things work? what i need is some of you computor nerds to knock up some software that works. i would gladly pay a small fee every month for something that works. come someone, theres a way round this, it just needs finding?

---

does anyone know a good ip address blocker?

Originally posted by danj:

---

I am with Virgin, So is my neighbor about to get a warning when i use his wireless network to download mp3's?

---

does your neighbor know that you use his wireless network.

How is this going to work - can't you mask your usage statistics with most torretn software. I use Azureus sometimes you can do it with that?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by oxosbase:

---

what we really need is something to get us round this.ive read of things like peerguardian and other bits of software that block your ip address. do these things work? what i need is some of you computor nerds to knock up some software that works. i would gladly pay a small fee every month for something that works. come someone, theres a way round this, it just needs finding?

---

does anyone know a good ip address blocker?

---

Peer Guardian is a excellent IP blocker, which I use along with Kaspersky Internet Security. Peer Guardian is now currently blocking 772,679,600 IPs for me! They have "lists" that you can check of whom you want to block...like "goverment, ads, P2P, spyware..." and this doesn't conflict with Azureus (I use for downloading)...and the best thing...it's free...the bad thing...they are currenly working on a "Vista" version (soon to be out).
Here is a example of some IP's that tried to come through on my system... (who are these guys?!!):
DSL.net, Inc ........................ I don't know you..
Fraunhofer FOKUS CC SatCom .......... Military crap??
PROVIDER ............................ Yea, right.
Beyond The Network America, Inc...... Beyond what?
City of Lebanon ..................... I have never been there!
IDG COMMUNICATIONS VERLAG............ I might know you? No!
Bundesministerium fuer Unterricht und kulturelle ... What the hell!!
Hope this helps... Here is Peer Guardian's website to download...
http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
Cheers!

Originally posted by KarlSteer:

---

Originally posted by FreqNasty:

---

Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.

---

Please be more tolerant. Immigrants are more useful to the country than you might think. A little research of the economics will show you why.

---

Yeah.. they come in, get all the free healthcare that we pay for, work for less than the minimum wage cash in hand then vanish off to spend all they have earned back where they come from where things are cheaper..

How is that helping our economy??.. Oh yeah.. Virtually free labour to keep the impoverished workers (like me) meek and quiet.. We have NO RIGHTS left in this country.. It's like being a Tibetan.

Virgin - 3 strikes and you lose your internet connection.

Tibetan - 3 strikes and you lose consciousness - prolly for good.

Just an effort to remind ppl what the topic is and also bring a lil realistic perspective. ;)

We could copy music/movies the old fashioned way - 'buy' it from a shop, copy it, scratch it and return it claiming 'it's faulty'!

Originally posted by ianv01:

---

We could copy music/movies the old fashioned way - 'buy' it from a shop, copy it, scratch it and return it claiming 'it's faulty'!

---

that word not work because some shops will know.

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by oxosbase:

---

what we really need is something to get us round this.ive read of things like peerguardian and other bits of software that block your ip address. do these things work? what i need is some of you computor nerds to knock up some software that works. i would gladly pay a small fee every month for something that works. come someone, theres a way round this, it just needs finding?

---

does anyone know a good ip address blocker?

---

Peer Guardian is a excellent IP blocker, which I use along with Kaspersky Internet Security. Peer Guardian is now currently blocking 772,679,600 IPs for me! They have "lists" that you can check of whom you want to block...like "goverment, ads, P2P, spyware..." and this doesn't conflict with Azureus (I use for downloading)...and the best thing...it's free...the bad thing...they are currenly working on a "Vista" version (soon to be out).
Here is a example of some IP's that tried to come through on my system... (who are these guys?!!):
DSL.net, Inc ........................ I don't know you..
Fraunhofer FOKUS CC SatCom .......... Military crap??
PROVIDER ............................ Yea, right.
Beyond The Network America, Inc...... Beyond what?
City of Lebanon ..................... I have never been there!
IDG COMMUNICATIONS VERLAG............ I might know you? No!
Bundesministerium fuer Unterricht und kulturelle ... What the hell!!
Hope this helps... Here is Peer Guardian's website to download...
http://phoenixlabs.org/pg2/
Cheers!

---

does anyone know what this Vista" version they are working on?

Quote:

---

Originally posted by oxosbase:

---

what we really need is something to get us round this.ive read of things like peerguardian and other bits of software that block your ip address. do these things work? what i need is some of you computor nerds to knock up some software that works. i would gladly pay a small fee every month for something that works. come someone, theres a way round this, it just needs finding?

---

does anyone know a good ip address blocker?

---

A IP blocker isn't going to stop your ISP from watching and following you just sites you visit will be blocked.

You would need to spoof your broadband modem which you can do with certain ones. But that gets tricky to do and you would end up getting someone else kicked off and would have to assimilate someone else’s account.

I can do this with my modem after flashing the BIOS and then spoofing someones account.

Comcast has been doing something like Virgin by shutting down bitorrents but the gov has stepped in and told them it's illegal to do so, it should be for Virgin as well. How do they know if, or if not, your doing something illegal, you may have or have bought the CD of the music you are downloading? They are considering you guilty by assumption, which really isn't new these days unfortunately.

I download a lot of tv shows such as stargate atlantis/24/battlestar galactica/coronation street for the wife etc. I have already paid for these shows through tv license and sky digital. Would these be classed as illegal downloads through virgins eyes or would these be okay. Iam with aol at the moment and would never consider virgin now. gaazzaa

i am currently with virgin ( well ntl until the takeover happend) and wont be for much longer the way there going.

they need to get a grip first they break the contract with sky so we cant watch that anymore and now this WE ARE THERE CUSTOMERS WHO PAY THERE WAGES they should be on our side.

they put this into action they stand to lose millions and i hope they do.

Originally posted by gaazzaa:

---

I download a lot of tv shows such as stargate atlantis/24/battlestar galactica/coronation street for the wife etc. I have already paid for these shows through tv license and sky digital. Would these be classed as illegal downloads through virgins eyes or would these be okay. Iam with aol at the moment and would never consider virgin now. gaazzaa

---

Technically, yes, these CAN be classified as "illegal" downloads but very, very rarely are. You'd have to be running a zillion torrents or w/e (or run a site) to even be noticed...

The deal they're talking about above, btw, regards music downloads. While any laws that came from it would likely apply to ANY piracy, currently it's not written law.

and who will police the BPI and the record companies? after all they have been stealing off the British public for years. during this entire saga not one of the greedy basturds in the industry has even considered dropping the prices down to a reasonable level. they cant have their obsurd profit margins decrease now can they.

as a student my flat was broken into, and i had over 500 CD'S stolen. being a skint student, i obviously did not have house insurance. who replaces those albums? near £5000 worth of CD's. i have replaced all those albums via p2p and make no apology for it. the industry would tell me that it was tough sh1t i had my entire music collection stolen witout insurance, well i think that downloading replacements via p2p is their tough sh1t.

i see that the carphone warehouse are not going to implement these ludicrous 3 strikes and your out internet policing. other companies will have to do likewise or they will not be able to compete, ergo it wont work IMO.

Again, how about selling music at realistic prices? prices that everyone can afford!

nah! didn't think you would!

and it gets even more interesting:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a9...neutrality.html

Originally posted by link:

---

Virgin Media CEO Neil Berkett has attacked the principle of net neutrality, whereby internet service providers do not interfere with or degrade the speed at which content is delivered from websites to consumers, branding it as "b****cks".

Berkett's cable operator ranks as the second largest internet service provider in the UK with approximately 3.6m customers.

In an interview with the Royal Television Society's Television magazine, Berkett said that "this net neutrality thing is a load of b****cks", and revealed that Virgin is already in talks with unnamed content providers about paying to have their content delivered faster than others.

Feeding into the debate between internet service providers and the BBC over iPlayer, Berkett even warned that public service broadcasters who choose not to pay for faster access to Virgin's subscriber base would end up in "bus lanes", effectively having their content delivered to consumers at a lower speed.

Thus far, Ofcom has made little comment on the network neutrality debate. In 2007, long before the current iPlayer discussions, the then Ofcom policy chief Douglas Scott indicated that the regulator planned a "hands off" approach to the issue. Scott has since departed the regulator for Channel 4.

---

if you are in the uk and with virgin as an isp now is the time to request your mac code!

a great video highlighting why net neutrality is essential for our culture and why corporations should not dictate to us what we can see and do with Sir Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the world wide web. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP_3WnJ42kw

Originally posted by dabs40:

---

it's a dangerous game for both sides...
the hardest it's going to be for them to lose you as a customer( or should i say your money...). we're talking around £ 70-80 / month. now you multiply this by a couple of thouthands,and we start talking big loss of money

---

Exactly right my friend, it amazes me when I see the Virgin adverts for 4 for £40, I pay nothing less than £80 to £90 per month, so if they lose that sort of volume of paying customers, they wont survive long.. Also as mentioned, personally I think whatever good ideas Virgin had / have are not going according to plan, the service is terrible as compared to when TELEWEST ran the show, slow broadband speeds, and the TV film channels freeze for half a second here and there, not much but annoying when trying to get into a film...

I say stuff them.. Keep doing what we do until,. as they put it send you a warning letter first anyway, so if get one of them stop, if not, don't..

Ziggy

Cory Doctorow, writer, co-editor of Boing Boing, columnist for the UK paper "The Guardian", and tech geek has publicly slammed Virgin for their anti-consumer move to filter the web in their destruction of, freedom of speech.

http://www.boingboing.net/2008/04/13/virgin-media-ceo-net.html

Originally posted by cory above link:

---

As a Virgin customer, I'm not paying to see those services that bribe Virgin to reach me, I'm paying to reach the entire web, whichever bits I think are useful, as quickly as Virgin can deliver them.

Theoretically, I'm locked into a Virgin plan for another six months, but as far as I'm concerned, they've just announced that they're violating the agreement by announcing that the services I can reach will be systematically slowed down unless they pay Virgin extra. That means that we're now null and void. I'll be calling to cancel today.

Who's with me?

---

I will join cory in his boycott of everything "virgin" until the censorship in the UK has ceased, and in the name of "free speech" would advise you all to get your mac code, lose the mobile ect, until the corporations stop filtering what we can and can't do.

if you are with "virgin" on LLU a great alternative is http://www.bethere.co.uk/ no, filtering, with a fair use of 500gig+ per month(uploads not counted) with speeds upto 24meg.

ive had a letter and are now paying £25 for 1 meg at certain times of the day due to downloading.. (what i have supposed to have done )but get told to gett 5 meg im supposed to get i can get back but buy a £35 20 meg.. so its not about bandwith its about them making more money

they need to focus on speeds to plans have 100-300LPS plans around 10-20$
add after 5-15GB your speed is halved in the 20-40$
range more speed higher caps.

at 50$+ it should be a premium and you are not caped at 70+ you get 3MBPS or higher speeds, there needs to be some balance and I think this is the best way to do it but if they continue on metered rates and secretive caps government is goign to come in to regulate and we don;t need that...