'Far Cry 2' doesn't want to fall into 'Spore's' DRM trap

While this is much better than EA's DRM, the install limitations are still not in the consumer's favor. I end up getting a new PC about once every year and a half, so I could burn through my 3 PC's installs quickly, especially if I put it on three machines that I already have. The best answer is to not limit the consumer. I went to buy a PC game from Best Buy last night, and actually looked to see if my game was made by EA. If it was, then I wasn't going to buy it. I saw Red Alert 3 will be from EA, (which I buy every Command and Conquer game), but since it has the DRM, I will not be buying it. Anyone know if Kane Wrath (expansion for C&C3) has that limitation on it? I haven't purchased it yet.

??? trying to figure out how the Game knows what PC it was installed on, if i install a new CPU does it count that as a different PC. that is part of upgrading.

It wouldn't matter, the revoke system would refund an activation to your account.

To be honest, it may have less restrictions, but I certainly would not want any kind of DRM MALWARE on my system. If I want this game and cannot buy it without this malware being installed on my system chances are my only way of getting it would simply be to download a cracked version with no DRM in it, which I'm sure a lot of people are going to do anyway.

Originally posted by Mik3h:

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It wouldn't matter, the revoke system would refund an activation to your account.

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(DXR88) - By CPU, do you mean processor or entire machine?
You get 3 different PC installs. There are no revoke PC's. If you put it on one PC and uninstall it, then that PC counts as one of your three.
Revokes only work per machine. If you upgrade your video card, you must remember to uninstall correctly and then re-install. That would revoke the install count on that machine. If your machine crashed, and you had to replace your hard drive, when you re-installed the game that would count as your second for that machine. There is no way around the 3 PC restriction.....yet.

All you people complaining.

"Waaah, what if my operating system has to be reinstalled six times, then I'll be out of installs"

The main flaw with that argument is that the game with the install limit will be a game that's played for years and years, like starcraft, diablo 2, and counter-strike. You figure you reinstall the os every 6 months, then thats 2 and a half years you can play before your game is no good anymore.

But yeah, it's still bs to have install limits.

Originally posted by bomber991:

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All you people complaining.

"Waaah, what if my operating system has to be reinstalled six times, then I'll be out of installs"

The main flaw with that argument is that the game with the install limit will be a game that's played for years and years, like starcraft, diablo 2, and counter-strike. You figure you reinstall the os every 6 months, then thats 2 and a half years you can play before your game is no good anymore.

But yeah, it's still bs to have install limits.

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I think you're crazy if you're suggesting that the average person installs a new OS every 6 months. If your tweaks basically break your system twice a year maybe you should consider if you honestly have the know-how to tweak a computer.

you lot realise you can uninstall it, and get your install back, so its practially unlimited.

I am so anti-drm, but guys you must say that this is a step in the right direction. And I see people here wanting more more and more. You're just not gonna get it. So I think people need to support Far Cry 2 if it's a good game and not just download it simply because it's not the way they want it to be which will never happen. I mean people, they have to protect their games somehow, so you can't think they're just gonna put it out there with no protection at all.

i think that everyone should download it regardless of whether they want it or not and then spam the forums and ratings with anti drm comments until they stop this bs we pay good money for these products we should be able to use them and sell them on as we please no other industry would get away with it outside of the media industry imagine if u couldnt sell your house or car because the makers had limited it

And again how will this stop piracy, why don't they just be honest and state they are trying to stop the second hand market, oh yes, LAW SUITS, because its against the law to stop you selling them!

Another title i won't be purchasing and will be advising every gamer i know in the on-line and off-line gaming world.

Time to spam wow, eve, guild-wars, americas army, battlefield ect.

yeah it is step to right direction, but this is yet another game i wont be playing. If it was solely for piracy they made 2-5 install limit per month. Loosing 2-5 copies per month wouldn´t be big loose, and as it was before only one copy could get to online at the time. Well luckyly im still not tired of tf2.

Damn i miss westwood studios... they let two with same serial to play at internet. Now we have these damn install limits. i for one buy only those games that i will install more than 5 times and consider games that i install only once a some what bad purchase, but it just might be that 99,8& of ea games are that crappy that most people dont want to play those more than once.

It's complitely idiotic to have DRM on a game.
People who download it illegally wont have DRM with the game anyway so only people who boought it from store legally suffer because of it.

It has happend with Spore, and all the other games that include DRM. There's just no way you or anybody can stop piracy. And trying to do so is just plain stupid and will cost alot of sales and money (like in the Spore's case, many downloaded it instead of buying because of DRM).

Originally posted by Jaketus:

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It's complitely idiotic to have DRM on a game.
People who download it illegally wont have DRM with the game anyway so only people who boought it from store legally suffer because of it.

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Basic DRM is to stop casual copying and is fair enough but Sony's SecuROM DRM that is being used on FarCry2 and Spore, MassEffect, Bioshock, Command & Conquer 3 ect has nothing to do with piracy.

A basic cd check with bad/weak sectors is enough to deter the casual gamer, this DRM is beyond belief but what do you expect from Sony DRM?

SONY'S DRM SECUROM 7 IS ABOUT DESTROYING THE SECOND HAND GAME MARKET, THEY WANT TO SELL EVERYONE A NEW COPY OF THE GAME AND BLOCK SECOND HAND SALES.

Just as the MPAA and RIAA want to block second hand sales of media, or charge every person extra money for the privilege of moving media they have already purchased to their iPod, notebook ect.

I,for one,think this is spectacular.
This is basically insuring that you DON'T run out of installations,and at the same time it would be very difficult to pirate.
You can even share it with your friends,if you want,and they KNOW this,yet they still let you have all of these activations.

So you can't pirate it,but that's making it safe to share this game with six or ten friends,online or otherwise.

I applaud this,with absolutely no objections.

Quote:

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SONY'S DRM SECUROM 7 IS ABOUT DESTROYING THE SECOND HAND GAME MARKET, THEY WANT TO SELL EVERYONE A NEW COPY OF THE GAME AND BLOCK SECOND HAND SALES.

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When has the PC game market ever Had a Second hand, ow wait i completely forgot about the late 70's early 80's games. the only second hand games would be those without multi-player Values.

this is a step in the right direction. DRM is here to stay since the 90's till the end of the world get used to it. you know as well as i do that pirates probably already have the DRM mechanics figured out.

besides we could have Starforce DRM do you want Starforce drm, i dont.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Quote:

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SONY'S DRM SECUROM 7 IS ABOUT DESTROYING THE SECOND HAND GAME MARKET, THEY WANT TO SELL EVERYONE A NEW COPY OF THE GAME AND BLOCK SECOND HAND SALES.

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When has the PC game market ever Had a Second hand, ow wait i completely forgot about the late 70's early 80's games. the only second hand games would be those without multi-player Values.

this is a step in the right direction. DRM is here to stay since the 90's till the end of the world get used to it. you know as well as i do that pirates probably already have the DRM mechanics figured out.

besides we could have Starforce DRM do you want Starforce drm, i dont.

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SecuROM is every bit as invasive as Starforce, and is responsible for many driver conflicts and bsod's and the Sony Securom support is every bit as dismissive and pathetic as the Starforce support.

Sony after their XCP Rootkit debacle even lobbied to have an amendment H.R. 964 to be put into the spy act to protect their malware from being studied by security companies to hide their bull crud, and to protect them from lawsuits for any damage they cause to peoples hardware due to their bad & invasive code.

This is the last email response i got from Sony Support regarding removal of their malware SecuROM! This was after EA had denied any responsibility regarding the DRM or any files associated with SecuROM or registry/file changes, and so i was passed back to Sony.

Originally posted by Sony SecuROM:

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Hello.

The license information is necessary to manage usage rights of a software application. This license is set by the publisher. The SecuROM uninstaller removes all SecuROM related files/folders. This means, the information remaining on your PC doesn't contain programs (eating your ressources like CPU,...) nor personal data but stores the license information for future use in the Windows registry.

For further questions regarding the license information please contact the software publisher for support.

Best regards,

SecuROM Support Team
SecuROM on the web: http://www.securom.com or via e-mail: support@securom.com

*** Please include the subject line exactly as written above including your ticket number in all communications to ensure proper handling ***

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You can honestly defend DRM can you?

Originally posted by Julio Franco, TechSpot.com :

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http://www.techspot.com/news/32094-Weeke...rom-buying.html

Nobody on its right mind would dare to defend DRM (Digital rights management) in front of a web crowd, unless you represent one of the few enterprises pushing it forward, of course.

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All im saying is to give these guys slack, there trying. whether you or me or any other Anti-DRM scenes like it or not. it doesn't matter what we say DRM Will and continue to be on many future releases.

and your wrong Starforce was a destructive DRM, in no means comparable to SecuROM's invasive capability's.

and besides think of the Software Pirates, No drm would put them out of jobs. id rather they steal software instead of steal me monies matey

Now if they would forget the silly install limits ad focus on flood control to suspend or black list the key (5 installs in a day,10 in a week,25 in a month) that would move things forward with activation issues.

But frankly without proper offline activation its a moot point.

DRX88
Dude simmer down, without offline install I aint buying a game for more than 20$, they are improving DRM but its not "there" yet thus making the game worth about half the 20$ I am willing to spend on it :P

why fight about it just dont buy their games...i wont i'll buy or download a cracked/pirated copy over supporting companies that work this way so its no big deal to me let them see sales fall and they'll blame piracy like they've been doing til they get the hint..if they dont get it oh well let their shareholders take a look at how they run shop.Its only gonna get worse unless they can come up with a different scheme i think...

I remember those stupid code wheels and those were actually more effective at stopping piracy. You could install the software as much as you wanted, there was no hardware checks, no activations, etc.

If you lost the codewheel, you were SOL, of course.

The harder you make it for your customers to buy and legally use their own products, the less that you will sell. You could just buy a console game system and not have to deal with any of this. You guys are killing your own industry by doing this.

Originally posted by spamual:

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you lot realise you can uninstall it, and get your install back, so its practially unlimited.

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Not if you are switching to a different machine.

Well I guess I now know how I'm acquiring this game. Pity, Ubisoft. A real pity.

Years ago, people used to have to put in the original CD in order for the game to play. While you may be able to duplicate a CD to make it happen, they could easily create a dongle for a couple of dollars that would work just as well.

Lauren

Originally posted by Notcow:

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I,for one,think this is spectacular.
This is basically insuring that you DON'T run out of installations,and at the same time it would be very difficult to pirate.

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No, you can very easily run out of installs. Just forget to uninstall it their way when you upgrade you computer or when you blow out your machine every so often to purge the old. I don't want to have to jump through their hoop of rememebering that 1 or 2 games on my machine have to be uninstalled before I can modify my machine. It's a pain. As for piracy, this does very little to stop it. A downloaded version with a crack would fix that. It is just simply not consumer friendly.

Originally posted by Notcow:

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You can even share it with your friends,if you want,and they KNOW this,yet they still let you have all of these activations.

So you can't pirate it,but that's making it safe to share this game with six or ten friends,online or otherwise.

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You won't be sharing it with more than 2 friends, because you have a 3 PC limit. An uninstall will not change this. It's 3 PC's period. Also, you would need the disc when you play it, so you would have to get the disc from them.

Originally posted by daelin914:

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Years ago, people used to have to put in the original CD in order for the game to play. While you may be able to duplicate a CD to make it happen, they could easily create a dongle for a couple of dollars that would work just as well.

Lauren

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Umm... this is more about the number of installs and the process you must go through to retain the number of installs. It's not so much having the disc to play the game. Another way to do what you were stating would be to make a virtual drive on your machine, so that you didn't need the disc, but that's not really what we were talking about here.

Originally posted by windsong:

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Well I guess I now know how I'm acquiring this game. Pity, Ubisoft. A real pity.

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mmmm

Quote:

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* You have five activations on three separate PCs.
* Uninstalling the game "refunds" an activation. This process is called "revoke", so as long as you complete proper uninstall you will be able to install the game an unlimited number of times on 3 systems.
* You can upgrade your computer as many times as you want (using our revoke system)
* Ubisoft is committed to the support of our games, and additional activations can be provided.
* Ubisoft is committed to the long-term support of our games: you'll always be able to play Far Cry 2.

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Now if they would forget the silly install limits ad focus on flood control to suspend or black list the key (5 installs in a day,10 in a week,25 in a month) that would move things forward with activation issues.

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I think that this is a really good point. It is a large number of installs that happens frequently that should be stopped. This is where they really lose the money. One copy getting leaked and shared 100's of times. Not so much one copy getting installed every 2 months because of computer upgrades or changing machines.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Now if they would forget the silly install limits ad focus on flood control to suspend or black list the key (5 installs in a day,10 in a week,25 in a month) that would move things forward with activation issues.

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I think that this is a really good point. It is a large number of installs that happens frequently that should be stopped. This is where they really lose the money. One copy getting leaked and shared 100's of times. Not so much one copy getting installed every 2 months because of computer upgrades or changing machines.

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Ya the "523"(5 a day X 2=10 a week X3=30 a month, leaked copies will will be broken ASAP) setup would work great for both publishers and consumers trying to strictly control installations is hella weak and leads them to them being more reactive as so they can try and force people to buy more than 1 copy of a game thus stagnating profits because people will give up ryigto play by the rules of industry and crack it.


And wit that you do not need a revoke system to track and mange keys, you might want a account system like steam or blizzard as so users can store their keys and download copies.

I would contest they think they lose more money from legit consumers shearing their copy with either friends or in the house hold. But truthfully that is their consumer base and those are the people they are sending away with these draconian DRM schemes.

The idea they used is seriously retarded.. why can't they just give you all the files for the games and just require an account online with their servers to play it? They already require the internet for most of these games. And make it a deal with the customers to send out a patch for that specific game to unlock it to not require their servers to play it when they stop supporting it?

There's so many more ways to "get around" pirating, at least for their eyes. But we all know there will never be a game that can't be pirated! ;)

What about offline only games? Well...they could use the same old activation keys? Like any other retailing programs... whats the difference, its enough to say your trying to stop pirating, but it will never be stopped. So leave it at that!

If they continue with this rootkit style bullshit someone needs to step up and say the 2nd hand market is getting shafted and they need to change their tone about this securRom BS.

Side from that, I hate most of these games anyways, so I wouldn't be caught dead pirating them anyway.

Originally posted by sciafb:

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The idea they used is seriously retarded.. why can't they just give you all the files for the games and just require an account online with their servers to play it? They already require the internet for most of these games. And make it a deal with the customers to send out a patch for that specific game to unlock it to not require their servers to play it when they stop supporting it?

There's so many more ways to "get around" pirating, at least for their eyes. But we all know there will never be a game that can't be pirated! ;)

What about offline only games? Well...they could use the same old activation keys? Like any other retailing programs... whats the difference, its enough to say your trying to stop pirating, but it will never be stopped. So leave it at that!

If they continue with this rootkit style bullshit someone needs to step up and say the 2nd hand market is getting shafted and they need to change their tone about this securRom BS.

Side from that, I hate most of these games anyways, so I wouldn't be caught dead pirating them anyway.

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ya the game industry is tuning me off the hobby crappy crap at bloated prices...blah... but they need to understand their place in the world if they try to rob from society via malcontent and greedy schemes society will ignore them and then they are left with no income.

As always they need to focus on illicit profit and a slowing of illicit copying that is not evasive to the end user...

PPL ON THE FORUM, DON'T ALLOW THE CORPORATE SCUM TO MISS DIRECT YOU INTO BELIEVING THIS DRM IS ABOUT PIRACY.

this drm has nothing to do with piracy and everything to do with resale and greed.

So i guess their DRM works well as it has already appeared onto closed torrent sites!

:-)

I will not partake in your clampdown on the second hand trade UbiSoft, if the second hand value is £$0 that's all you'll get from me. UbiSoft should have learnt not to be anti-consumer with the Starforce debacle.

So Long and Thanks for all the Fish!

^^Holy crap man give it a rest and stop spammin and trollin aD.

Since when aren't we allowed to discuss anti customer measures and installation/distribution of ILLEGAL malware.

You may not care.. and personally I don't give 2 craps.. because I don't play any of these garbage games... BUT.. malware/rootkits and spyware are dangerous to everybody. I know a hack for securom which is out in the wild right now and gives the hack owner complete access to your hardware numbers (and your email address book and a few other nice things.. a password reporter and a hidden remote desktop process in the one I found.. I might have a play with that and use some unsuspecting gamers rig to download a heap of terrorist related stuff.. and wait for them getting raided at 5 am)

Originally posted by sblade .. a real hacker:

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I´m Sblade, and my posts stickied at many publishers forums speaks about my ellaborated work for helping gamers.

http://www.ataricommunity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605340

http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17665

I have one more at Bioware the first of the Securom TECH FAQ´s.

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/vie...30835&forum=116

I have 2 years+ experience in dealing with Securom, I´ve helped hundreds or maybe thousand of gamers to run their bought game.

It is fair when:

a) You don´t compromise end-users computers while trying to protect your work.

b) You don´t break many international laws, OpenSSL and GPL license by agreeing into the use of Securom.

Those two above facts make anyone who uses Securom no better than the pirates.

Now, I´ll entend my points.

a) 1) All DRM´s by definition, run in RING0

RINGS graphical explanation

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,1156611,00.asp

Here you will find a graphic of the rings:

RING0 Operating system Kernel (highest privilege)
RING 1-2 Operating System Services (Device Drivers.etc)
RING3: Applications (lowest Privilege)

One fact proof of those DRM´s running in RING0 is that almost all detect emulation and prevent the game from running.

If they have not the same authority as emulation, P:E: Daemon Tools, it will be impossible for these DRM´s to detect it

Securom hooks to the kernel only when doing his checks, which was a step forward from the draconian DRM named above. I have a Process Explorer log as proof of this. I can give it at demand.

Securom uses a virtual Minicom Driver used mainly for authentications

2)Windows DMA stepdown into PIO mode:
Disk I/O will cause windows to stepdown into PIO mode
DMA stepdown into PIO mode (Microsoft)
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/IDE-DMA.mspx


Main problem in those new DRM´s checks is, when the data obtained is not within the tolerances that the DRM expected. Windows tries again and again.

It only takes a few Time outs for Windows to step down the DMA access completely (it does this silently) until you reach PIO mode.


There is no avoiding the fact that the use of any DRM that requires multiple disk checks will dramatically reduce the life cycle of your CD/DVD drive.

EA (I think Bioware, EA do not listen until proven innocent ), has learned it, that´s why Mass Effect comes with NO-DVD check.

Basically because these tests require direct firmware access to the drives. Combined with the DMA step down this can result in the drive treating the disk as an over burned one, sending the laser so fast to the outer edge that the fail-safe cut out does not have time to counteract it slamming against its mount, each time it does this it slowly trashes the wormgear and subsequently the laser stops being able to lock onto the track on the disk.


So basically if your modern DVD/CD drive stepsdown into PIO mode and you use for an extended period of time it will go to TRASH.


Proof link of DMA/Stepdown from Securom official page:
http://www.securom.com/message.asp?m=copy&c=1000

Now b)

Securom´s nastier version uses OPENSSL for online authentications.

You can view the readme file if you have Bioshock, Mass Effect or Spore in C:\Documents and Settings\<your Windows username>\Application Data\SecuROM\UserData

I won´t enter in OpenSSL history of unpatched things and holes, just google a bit and you´ll find for yourselves. I´ll give more details, but I have to prioritize my EA lawsuit so no info to the enemy.

I´ll end that this use of OpenSSL violates GNU public license.....

3. Protecting Users' Legal Rights From Anti-Circumvention Law.

No covered work shall be deemed part of an effective technological measure under any applicable law fulfilling obligations under article 11 of the WIPO copyright treaty adopted on 20 December 1996, or similar laws prohibiting or restricting circumvention of such measures.

I´ll end smashing the Rootkit discussion. I´ll use Mark Russinovich´s authority, a VIP engineer and ex head of sysinternals to expose it.

Rootkits are cloaking technologies that hide files, Registry keys, and other system objects from diagnostic and security software, and they are usually employed by malware attempting to keep their implementation hidden

http://spiresecurity.typepad.com/spire_s..._in_a_root.html

Look at the term usually employed by malware. It is NOT a requirement to be malware to be a rootkit. It is a rootkit as long as Securom hide files, has embedded and hidden registry keys without the user info and agreement.

Securom, while it may or may not be malware, it is clear that attempts to keep its implementation hidden. And still does its job. Many users doesn´t have or doesn´t have reallized their troubles are Securom related

You can have a look at this, sadly only for subscribers:

http://windowsitpro.com/article/articlei...-root-kits.html

The fact that Securom didn´t have an uninstaller made this damn DRM enter in Mark´s definition. That´s why they did an uninstaller in version 7.24.

HOWEVER the uninstaller does not remove the registry keys, so it stays as a rootkit again.

So Securom is a rootkit. Unless anyone here wants to deauthorize Mr. Russinovich Smile


So it´s fair to try to protect your work in some way? My answer is YES.

It´s fair to try to protect your work while compromising consumers computers, violating other copyright laws and installing rootkits?

Answer that yourself Raide, I won´t

Solutions: TAGES uninstalls itself completely, nor Starforce or Securom does. By completely I mean registry entries.

Regards
Sblade

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Some people seem to think it's fine to have software installed which has full time internet access yet is completely outside the control or knowledge of the computer owner.. Remember this?.. YOU are ultimately responsible for the security and use of your hardware.. That's why rootkits and malware are ultimately bad... as California law agrees.

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Sir where could I purchase that shirt?

As long as I get my activations back through correctly uninstalls as listed here, then Ubisoft should be praised for not having limitation on the amount of uninstalls. Its unlimited unless you suffer a serious system failure or don't uninstall it correctly so I don't see any problems & my pre-order stands.

FarCry 2 has the same DRM as Bioshock so no big deal there - unlike Spore which I detest. If you hate DRM, just buy it off Steam, etc..

Originally posted by champman:

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As long as I get my activations back through correctly uninstalls as listed here, then Ubisoft should be praised for not having limitation on the amount of uninstalls. Its unlimited unless you suffer a serious system failure or don't uninstall it correctly so I don't see any problems & my pre-order stands.

FarCry 2 has the same DRM as Bioshock so no big deal there - unlike Spore which I detest. If you hate DRM, just buy it off Steam, etc..

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But what if you change PC's often? Only 3 are allowed reguardless of uninstalls. By the way, I do agree with you that it is better to offer the uninstalls, but it is a pain to try to remember which games have that kind of DRM.

It's also a real pain when that same DRM totally screws up a computer which you rely on for your business... And you can't completely remove it..

SecuROM will disable burners and any virtual drives or other software it doesn't like.. They don't have that right.. It's MY COMPUTER.. it doesn't belong to EA, Ubi, Sony, Microcrap or any other a$$wipe DRM peddler.... I have the right to install and use anything I damn well please on MY HARDWARE.. I don't need permission from Sony SecuROM for that. Anything which is installed without my permission and cannot be removed by normal means and interferes with my rights to use my hardware in any way I see fit.. legal or otherwise.. is malware.

http://x111.com/blog/littlemog/2008/10/21/oh-hell-no-ea/

still say this DRM is OK??

Ea and Ubi will both lose in court.. it will pretty much finish them off.. because millions of angry customers will not forget.. my friend in the link could quite legally sue them for lost earnings compensation and damages.. and bloody well should IMHO.

because one person ranting makes it true.....¬_¬

Because you can't get your head above your waistline doesn't make it not so.. Mogglet doesn't lie.. I know how much distress and loss this has caused them.

They aren't exactly tecchies either.. just average joe computer users who thanks to this invasive and intrusive DRM which asshats like yourself all say "won't do any harm.. it's safe" now have a big problem which poor overworked non-gamer professional tecchies like me have to help them fix so they can pay their rent next month..

Oh yeah.. isn't it great when you see friends lose their income because of a stupid game.. yeah.. I'm f-in laughing. Laughing my a$$ off at all you sony fanboys trying to make out that rootkits and malware are just dandy when in reality.. not imaginary world now.. real money in the bank to pay for housing so you don't get thrown into the street by the landlords bouncers world... it is damaging and dangerous.

Who is ranting?.. I'm not.. I'm f-in annoyed by all the retards who think it's just fine and dandy to allow big businesses to harm peoples livelihoods with malware.. If this was joe ordinary little hacker writing a virus that did this and let it into the wild and got caught... he would be looking at some serious compensation claims.. massive fines and possibly jail time... Why is it different for Sony and EA?.. go on.. you explain me that.

BTW.. how much did you get for your product review blogs?

thanks for the personal insults, i have reported you.

oh people please...behave....

*noogies varnull*
Be kind to noobs oh great anti corp goodess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SecuROM
http://securom.mustbedestroyed.org/phorum/viewforum.php?f=6

and send them to places that shall give them knowledge.

spamual
Securom is bad because it goes beyond managing functioning copies.
It gets into data mining and other questionable things.

The funny thing here being that everyone agrees with each other but they all have different ways of saying it so end up flaming each other... The irony is brilliant. But... Back to flaming Ubisoft for killing what could be a reasonably good game given the first one.

"* Uninstalling the game "refunds" an activation. This process is called "revoke", so as long as you complete proper uninstall you will be able to install the game an unlimited number of times on 3 systems"

So when the computer gets hit by rootkits from Sony or some idiot releases a virus to think he's cool and we have to format the comp to get it working... Does that mean we lose an "activation"?

And is this game online only activation? I bought Battlefield 2 several months ago and just managed to get the expansions unlocked after repeated messages to tech support. I have a freakin key but it still doesn't work cause of their silly servers... Then I get dropped every 5mn for no apparent reason... Online activation isn't advanced enough to be of any use. Apart from the minor problem of their servers being taken down and there being no way to activate the game...

Methinks I'll be sticking to free or slightly better DRM implemented games such as Counterstrike and Combat Arms. *sighs* And I was actually looking forward to this one...

If battlefield 2 closes out on you for 5 minutes, best look for a new computer or *Gasp* reformat...yay. your loss man looks really good.

Originally posted by spamual:

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thanks for the personal insults, i have reported you.

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Sounds like someone got put in intellectual checkmate.

you dont think i could reply to that, i would, but then i would also be using personal insults, why should i lower my self to her/his level?

its not intellectual when one uses personal insults in a post.

ooo get her!
i was looking forwards to purchasing farcry 2 tomorrow i dont get out much ;o). after reading the above sod em! torrents here i come, i would buy from steam but its only available in north america. so sod em twice!
shove yer rootkits up yer arse!

Originally posted by spamual:

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you dont think i could reply to that

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When your entire counter argument is a one liner...yea I would have to say so. And the whole "your reported" crack is inappropriate as well. It's none of our business who you report. Sounds like something I would do back in kindergarten.

right, then consider me back at nursery then.

Quote:

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Originally posted by daelin914:

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Years ago, people used to have to put in the original CD in order for the game to play. While you may be able to duplicate a CD to make it happen, they could easily create a dongle for a couple of dollars that would work just as well.

Lauren

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Umm... this is more about the number of installs and the process you must go through to retain the number of installs. It's not so much having the disc to play the game. Another way to do what you were stating would be to make a virtual drive on your machine, so that you didn't need the disc, but that's not really what we were talking about here.

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Wow... you're a mean one, Mr. SGriesch.

It's an alternative method for copy protection. If you try to read a sector on a disc that generates a read error due to a specific error, wouldn't that virtual drive idea fail? It's actually a comment on the copy-protection methods that never work and only open room for more piracy or people just saying..... f this and buying a console system.

Originally posted by varnull:

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It's also a real pain when that same DRM totally screws up a computer which you rely on for your business... And you can't completely remove it..

SecuROM will disable burners and any virtual drives or other software it doesn't like.. They don't have that right.. It's MY COMPUTER.. it doesn't belong to EA, Ubi, Sony, Microcrap or any other a$$wipe DRM peddler.... I have the right to install and use anything I damn well please on MY HARDWARE.. I don't need permission from Sony SecuROM for that. Anything which is installed without my permission and cannot be removed by normal means and interferes with my rights to use my hardware in any way I see fit.. legal or otherwise.. is malware.

http://x111.com/blog/littlemog/2008/10/21/oh-hell-no-ea/

still say this DRM is OK??

Ea and Ubi will both lose in court.. it will pretty much finish them off.. because millions of angry customers will not forget.. my friend in the link could quite legally sue them for lost earnings compensation and damages.. and bloody well should IMHO.

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I remember that DRM rootkit on Santana's last album. It was easily bypassed using the left-shift key when inserting the disc. Amazing how Windows lets those things gets installed..... "money for advertising, advertisting, advertising, advertising,..... fix vista..... advertisting, advertising, advertising, advertising...."

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its not intellectual when one uses personal insults in a post.

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i thought it was a question...not an insult:P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86uF0njd5oo

now there you go, the author of spinrite....one of the most amazing bootable programs for disc recovery spells it out for you....(look up UBCD)


"They turned vista into...whether you want it or not....a super tight lock-down digital content delivery platform"

"They deliberate blurr the picture"

"It will degrade source quality"

the reports claim that drm is in the system kernel....basically the nitty gritty fabrics of vista are weighted down with copy right protection measures ....

now isn't this just a little over ridicules people??
rootkits? rootkits? rootkits in OUR GAMES??

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If an intruder could replace the standard administrative tools on a system with a rootkit, the modified tools would give the intruder administrative control over the system while concealing his activities from the legitimate system administrator

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Quote:

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In 2005, Sony BMG caused a scandal by including rootkit software on music CDs that, in an attempt to enforce DRM,[2] inadvertently opened a backdoor that allowed root access to anyone aware of the rootkit's installation.[3] The scandal raised the public's awareness of rootkits, while the public relations fallout for Sony was compared by one analyst to the Tylenol scare.[4]

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you pay for the game....your pay for the operating system....you dont pay for copyright control measures on a system you own.....you dont pay for a game so that your system can be exploited and ruined....

For us more technically inclined folk drm may just be a bother (for now...this ROM business looks mean) , but to those who use computers for work and not just shenanigans, for them to have their system crash or get infected because some jerk on the other end wants to eliminates 1 possible piracy threat by ruining our systems... doesn't make tooo-much sense to me:(

so long and thanks for the fish..i guess you were right 13thHouR:D

i dont like far cry's 3 system limit, but at least our cries at the time of spores release was heard:)

DRM, no DRM there is no reason not to buy the game if you like it. there are sites that have stuff to bypass DRM or remove it.

The gaming industry is Getting pulled in a transition, Same one Hollywood took, Wont be long before the GPAA pops up.

I hate DRM, but its not going to go anywhere anytime noway nohow.

Just be thankful, cause it could be much worse.

Spamual and Azuran, knock it off!

Originally posted by DXR88:

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DRM, no DRM there is no reason not to buy the game if you like it. there are sites that have stuff to bypass DRM or remove it.

The gaming industry is Getting pulled in a transition, Same one Hollywood took, Wont be long before the GPAA pops up.

I hate DRM, but its not going to go anywhere anytime noway nohow.

Just be thankful, cause it could be much worse.

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That's funny, because people used to say the same thing about music until iTunes came out with non-DRM music and Amazon just took off with it and ran.

sure thing loco, though varnuls insults "assshat" etc, is all okay?

Originally posted by spamual:

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because one person ranting makes it true.....¬_¬

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I feel you provoked the response with this post. At any rate, we need to get back on topic.

Originally posted by daelin914:

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That's funny, because people used to say the same thing about music until iTunes came out with non-DRM music and Amazon just took off with it and ran.

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Okay that worked for music. so who is providing the drm free alternative to the Original Games? I'm obviously missing something.

Originally posted by LOCOENG:

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Originally posted by spamual:

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because one person ranting makes it true.....¬_¬

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I feel you provoked the response with this post. At any rate, we need to get back on topic.

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that response was to the person in the blog who was ranting, not varnul, that is why i am confused as to why varnul lashed out at me, when i wasnt lashing out at him.

any me saying that, would not justify the accusations i got and name calling, i know the mods dont like me as it is, but thats not right.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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so who is providing the drm free alternative to the Original Games? I'm obviously missing something.

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that would be the pirates. Yaaaarr!

Originally posted by daelin914:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by daelin914:

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Years ago, people used to have to put in the original CD in order for the game to play. While you may be able to duplicate a CD to make it happen, they could easily create a dongle for a couple of dollars that would work just as well.

Lauren

---

Umm... this is more about the number of installs and the process you must go through to retain the number of installs. It's not so much having the disc to play the game. Another way to do what you were stating would be to make a virtual drive on your machine, so that you didn't need the disc, but that's not really what we were talking about here.

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Wow... you're a mean one, Mr. SGriesch.

It's an alternative method for copy protection. If you try to read a sector on a disc that generates a read error due to a specific error, wouldn't that virtual drive idea fail? It's actually a comment on the copy-protection methods that never work and only open room for more piracy or people just saying..... f this and buying a console system.

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L,
I didn't intend for that to be interpretted in a mean way. Sorry if you thought it was. I just meant that SecureRom is very different "anti-piracy" measure than just needing the disc to play. The virtual drive could work, or a no-CD crack would as well. I think we are both agreeing that there have been ways around things, and there will probably be ways around this one too. It's just stupid for the company to do this in the first place. Varnull is right about having it install extra things that can cause major issues. It's just a game, and they are trying to mess with what is already on your drive, which IMO is no better than being hacked.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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DRM, no DRM there is no reason not to buy the game if you like it. there are sites that have stuff to bypass DRM or remove it.

The gaming industry is Getting pulled in a transition, Same one Hollywood took, Wont be long before the GPAA pops up.

I hate DRM, but its not going to go anywhere anytime noway nohow.

Just be thankful, cause it could be much worse.

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We can only hope that if enough people complain about it (like Spore on Amazon), that the companies will begin to understand that we aren't naive about what they do, and that we won't support them. It's good to voice things that are unjust. Until then, don't buy their products. Money says more to them than their customer's oppinions do evidently.