Blu-ray Discs specification now allows for 128GB storage

Great, now I can backup my entire media collection on 62 discs. ^_^

Mmmmm how compilable will it be on older BR hardware?

Dual layer is still to costly so when will this or DL be what single layer is now and will it be worth not using acouple extra discs? I guess they need to be under 100$ for 10 at 120ish GB each...........

This will become cheaper as time goes on, remember the high cost of Beta and VHS tapes originally, ( won't go into Umatic) then the tapes became cheaper, then DVD, Laser Disc, and you can buy new DVD movies from $2 now(O.K. budget titles) then Blu-Ray, very high prices for both movies and blanks, and movies are becoming more affordable, as the market place starts to saturate, thing become cheaper. These new Blu-ray discs will be expensive initially, but I see replacing hard drives in the not too in the foreseeable future. I know I left out Beta and HD discs, they fell by the wayside.

Originally posted by bmlshane:

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This will become cheaper as time goes on, remember the high cost of Beta and VHS tapes originally, ( won't go into Umatic) then the tapes became cheaper, then DVD, Laser Disc, and you can buy new DVD movies from $2 now(O.K. budget titles) then Blu-Ray, very high prices for both movies and blanks, and movies are becoming more affordable, as the market place starts to saturate, thing become cheaper. These new Blu-ray discs will be expensive initially, but I see replacing hard drives in the not too in the foreseeable future. I know I left out Beta and HD discs, they fell by the wayside.

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Ya...in maybe 5 years you can get 15 for 70$ ......

Why did they "only" go to 128GB? I wonder if they had problems getting that fourth layer to 150GB (or higher).

I don't see how they'd have problems with it but 128GB just seems random, maybe it's partially due to the lack of high-definition disc competition? ;-)

I think the whole release of lower capacity discs is a sham by the industry but it has always been this way. I heard about blu-ray back in the late 90's as my field in college was electronic and computer engineering. The burner cost around 5k back then but my professor saw a demo and the discs were 500GB. When they finally started releasing Blu-ray players for the masses a few years ago and the discs were only 25GB most of us were like WTF. True it was better than dual-layer DVDs but it is really all about money. Late 90's you were hard pressed to get a 500GB hard drive that wouldn't fail on you if you blew on it. They already have the tech, they just release it slowly to keep coming out with something 'new' when they have had it for years really, just not releasing it.

Originally posted by Ryoohki:

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I think the whole release of lower capacity discs is a sham by the industry but it has always been this way. I heard about blu-ray back in the late 90's as my field in college was electronic and computer engineering. The burner cost around 5k back then but my professor saw a demo and the discs were 500GB. When they finally started releasing Blu-ray players for the masses a few years ago and the discs were only 25GB most of us were like WTF. True it was better than dual-layer DVDs but it is really all about money. Late 90's you were hard pressed to get a 500GB hard drive that wouldn't fail on you if you blew on it. They already have the tech, they just release it slowly to keep coming out with something 'new' when they have had it for years really, just not releasing it.

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id be intrested to know more,as in proof of whatever your implying is true

I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

Originally posted by bmlshane:

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This will become cheaper as time goes on, remember the high cost of Beta and VHS tapes originally, ( won't go into Umatic) then the tapes became cheaper, then DVD, Laser Disc, and you can buy new DVD movies from $2 now(O.K. budget titles) then Blu-Ray, very high prices for both movies and blanks, and movies are becoming more affordable, as the market place starts to saturate, thing become cheaper. These new Blu-ray discs will be expensive initially, but I see replacing hard drives in the not too in the foreseeable future. I know I left out Beta and HD discs, they fell by the wayside.

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I agree with you, I remember with DL DVDs were $50 for like 3, now you can get a stack of 25 for like $30. It takes time, but the price will go down.

Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

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From everything I have read ~ No, not these 128's but the previously discussed/reported here on Afterdawn 100gb versions would be.

BDXL, I like the name.

Originally posted by Ryoohki:

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I think the whole release of lower capacity discs is a sham by the industry but it has always been this way. I heard about blu-ray back in the late 90's as my field in college was electronic and computer engineering. The burner cost around 5k back then but my professor saw a demo and the discs were 500GB. When they finally started releasing Blu-ray players for the masses a few years ago and the discs were only 25GB most of us were like WTF. True it was better than dual-layer DVDs but it is really all about money. Late 90's you were hard pressed to get a 500GB hard drive that wouldn't fail on you if you blew on it. They already have the tech, they just release it slowly to keep coming out with something 'new' when they have had it for years really, just not releasing it.

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I think they release things slow 'cos $$$ just like Apple (They have the tech to release a Super-iPad but they didn't....I feel sorry for the Apple's Fanboys).

They have the technology to offer us a better product Now....but Noooo ! ....they better make as much Money they can with this agenda; 'cos slow release is them Greedily way to go: "Corporation Thinking" !

Originally posted by Josipher:

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id be intrested to know more,as in proof of whatever your implying is true

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If I had proof I would show it to you. Like I said, this was when I was in college. One of the professors was discussing a trip to a technology conference he had went to. This happened almost 13 years ago during my first year. I remember it because we were having a discussion about the future of optical media and he was saying how dvds would soon be obsolete. We all thought he was pulling this information out of his ass since we never even heard of blu-ray and couldn't imagine something the size of a cd holding that much data. Hell back then I had just bought a new computer with windows 98SE on it and a 20GB hd that I paid 850$ for. Not only that, if you bought a drive over 80GB you were heading down a slippery slope due to the massive amounts of failure those 'higher capacity' drives were having. I actually expected capacity to evolve a lot more than it has nowadays because of that discussion. It was pretty exciting to think about.

Originally posted by Josipher:

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Originally posted by Ryoohki:

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I think the whole release of lower capacity discs is a sham by the industry but it has always been this way. I heard about blu-ray back in the late 90's as my field in college was electronic and computer engineering. The burner cost around 5k back then but my professor saw a demo and the discs were 500GB. When they finally started releasing Blu-ray players for the masses a few years ago and the discs were only 25GB most of us were like WTF. True it was better than dual-layer DVDs but it is really all about money. Late 90's you were hard pressed to get a 500GB hard drive that wouldn't fail on you if you blew on it. They already have the tech, they just release it slowly to keep coming out with something 'new' when they have had it for years really, just not releasing it.

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id be intrested to know more,as in proof of whatever your implying is true

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Sounds like he either made it up or is confused about something else since even 400GB BDs are still just being researched, so there couldn't have been a 500GB BD back then.

Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

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Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

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Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

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Yes and no xnonsuchx as the earlier FW upgradeable BD Lasers can only do/see 2 layers (which is why I linked to an earlier aD news posting). Whereas this new 128gb version (from my understanding) contains 4 layers and in order to be compatible with it, the laser needs more physical power to read through them to do so, of which the older BD's cannot be "flashed to fix" per se.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

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Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

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Yes and no xnonsuchx as the earlier FW upgradeable BD Lasers can only do/see 2 layers (which is why I linked to an earlier aD news posting). Whereas this new 128gb version (from my understanding) contains 4 layers and in order to be compatible with it, the laser needs more physical power to read through them to do so, of which the older BD's cannot be "flashed to fix" per se.

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Well, that goes against what at least Sony and Pioneer have said before, unless power vs. layer count is a very recent issue that suddenly popped up. And if that issue does exist, isn't it possible a FW update to a device could be adjusting the power output of the laser?

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

---

Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

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Yes and no xnonsuchx as the earlier FW upgradeable BD Lasers can only do/see 2 layers (which is why I linked to an earlier aD news posting). Whereas this new 128gb version (from my understanding) contains 4 layers and in order to be compatible with it, the laser needs more physical power to read through them to do so, of which the older BD's cannot be "flashed to fix" per se.

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Well, that goes against what at least Sony and Pioneer have said before, unless power vs. layer count is a very recent issue that suddenly popped up. And if that issue does exist, isn't it possible a FW update to a device could be adjusting the power output of the laser?

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Only if the manufacture really thought about it before hand. I think unlike most of DVDs spec upgrades BD spec is not as tight as far as "holly hell we figured out how to do this and will make it a standard ASAP". I think most current drives will be able to handle the new spec.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

---

Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

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Yes and no xnonsuchx as the earlier FW upgradeable BD Lasers can only do/see 2 layers (which is why I linked to an earlier aD news posting). Whereas this new 128gb version (from my understanding) contains 4 layers and in order to be compatible with it, the laser needs more physical power to read through them to do so, of which the older BD's cannot be "flashed to fix" per se.

---

Well, that goes against what at least Sony and Pioneer have said before, unless power vs. layer count is a very recent issue that suddenly popped up. And if that issue does exist, isn't it possible a FW update to a device could be adjusting the power output of the laser?

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Only if the manufacture really thought about it before hand. I think unlike most of DVDs spec upgrades BD spec is not as tight as far as "holly hell we figured out how to do this and will make it a standard ASAP". I think most current drives will be able to handle the new spec.

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What I hope and what is possible are 2 different things....as I said, from my information & understanding the PS3 won't be FW update-able to be compatible with these 128gb per layer, 3-4 layer BD's as per Engadget & Blu-ray.com Here, Here & Here (quoted below).

Quote:

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Engadget ~

the Blu-ray Disc Association's rolling out a new BDXL format capable of holding up to 128GB (write-once) or 100GB (rewriteable). Before you get too excited, you should know that you'll need a new player to access these -- even a firmware update won't save the PS3 this time -- since they go up to three or four layers deep and will likely need a more powerful laser.

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Quote:

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Blu-ray.com ~

Because both BDXL and IH-BD are specially designed formats with specific market segments in mind, newly-designed hardware is required to play back or record BDXL or IH-BD media. However, because the new media specifications are extensions of current Blu-ray Disc technology, future BDXL and IH-BD devices can be designed to support existing 25GB and 50GB Blu-ray Discs.

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But that doesn't mean the earlier 100gb quad layer Hitachi version I linked to earlier won't or may not still be compatible for PS3 and other current BD Player use.

Edit: Sorry Zip for the edits...I wanted to expand upon my post a bit.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Originally posted by brockie:

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I wonder if the PS3 will be able to run them.

---

Any firmware-upgradeable BD device should technically be upgradeable to read higher layer BD media as the basic mechanism is supposedly capable of physically reading any BD media the BDA approves. Standard dual-layer BDs are even supposed to go up to ~65GB from the current 50GB...kinda like how the first CDs were 650MB and went up to 700MB.

---

Yes and no xnonsuchx as the earlier FW upgradeable BD Lasers can only do/see 2 layers (which is why I linked to an earlier aD news posting). Whereas this new 128gb version (from my understanding) contains 4 layers and in order to be compatible with it, the laser needs more physical power to read through them to do so, of which the older BD's cannot be "flashed to fix" per se.

---

Well, that goes against what at least Sony and Pioneer have said before, unless power vs. layer count is a very recent issue that suddenly popped up. And if that issue does exist, isn't it possible a FW update to a device could be adjusting the power output of the laser?

---

Only if the manufacture really thought about it before hand. I think unlike most of DVDs spec upgrades BD spec is not as tight as far as "holly hell we figured out how to do this and will make it a standard ASAP". I think most current drives will be able to handle the new spec.

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What I hope and what is possible are 2 different things. As I said the PS3 won't be FW update-able to be compatible with these 128gb per layer, 3-4 layer BD's as per Engadget.

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Well until the film industry starts using them I doubt there will be a rush outside PC drives to support them sadly.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Well until the film industry starts using them I doubt there will be a rush outside PC drives to support them sadly.

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Exactly. And I won't be either since I have enough PS3's already and don't need another different standard to spend money on.

Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Sounds like he either made it up or is confused about something else since even 400GB BDs are still just being researched, so there couldn't have been a 500GB BD back then.

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As is standard with technology companies things are researched YEARS before you even hear a whisper about it. Have you heard any of the rumors about the technology bill gates has in his house? If you have you would know what I'm talking about. It has always been a case of these companies releasing newer technology very slowly. I knew about blu-ray back when very few regular people heard about it and only because this particular professor happened to be at that conference. It was only for industry professionals and not something the average person would have been able to get into. It didn't hit the mainstream until a few years later with the 25GB disks. It isn't that the disks did not exist back then (unless someone with a doctorate was prone to lying to students for no reason), the average joe just would not have been able to gain access to it even now.

Just because this isn't something you have heard of, its no reason to call someone a liar but I can understand your skepticism. I sure was skeptical back then about blu-ray period as I couldn't find any documentation to back up any of it when I looked and took his word for it. The sheer expense for the burners made me pretty confident that blu-ray would be used mainly by corporations and not regular people. I couldn't even spare the expense of getting a dvd burner back then.

Originally posted by Ryoohki:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Sounds like he either made it up or is confused about something else since even 400GB BDs are still just being researched, so there couldn't have been a 500GB BD back then.

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As is standard with technology companies things are researched YEARS before you even hear a whisper about it. Have you heard any of the rumors about the technology bill gates has in his house? If you have you would know what I'm talking about. It has always been a case of these companies releasing newer technology very slowly. I knew about blu-ray back when very few regular people heard about it and only because this particular professor happened to be at that conference. It was only for industry professionals and not something the average person would have been able to get into. It didn't hit the mainstream until a few years later with the 25GB disks. It isn't that the disks did not exist back then (unless someone with a doctorate was prone to lying to students for no reason), the average joe just would not have been able to gain access to it even now.

Just because this isn't something you have heard of, its no reason to call someone a liar but I can understand your skepticism. I sure was skeptical back then about blu-ray period as I couldn't find any documentation to back up any of it when I looked and took his word for it. The sheer expense for the burners made me pretty confident that blu-ray would be used mainly by corporations and not regular people. I couldn't even spare the expense of getting a dvd burner back then.

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Meh most things in the lab are unfisable on the consumer end...

Originally posted by Ryoohki:

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Originally posted by xnonsuchx:

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Sounds like he either made it up or is confused about something else since even 400GB BDs are still just being researched, so there couldn't have been a 500GB BD back then.

---

As is standard with technology companies things are researched YEARS before you even hear a whisper about it. Have you heard any of the rumors about the technology bill gates has in his house? If you have you would know what I'm talking about. It has always been a case of these companies releasing newer technology very slowly. I knew about blu-ray back when very few regular people heard about it and only because this particular professor happened to be at that conference. It was only for industry professionals and not something the average person would have been able to get into. It didn't hit the mainstream until a few years later with the 25GB disks. It isn't that the disks did not exist back then (unless someone with a doctorate was prone to lying to students for no reason), the average joe just would not have been able to gain access to it even now.

Just because this isn't something you have heard of, its no reason to call someone a liar but I can understand your skepticism. I sure was skeptical back then about blu-ray period as I couldn't find any documentation to back up any of it when I looked and took his word for it. The sheer expense for the burners made me pretty confident that blu-ray would be used mainly by corporations and not regular people. I couldn't even spare the expense of getting a dvd burner back then.

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I can't remember the exact reason why, but this idea occurred to me several years ago. I am convinced that whatever technology you see in the mainstream today, is already outdated in secret. I believe this goes beyond just audio and video technology, but also into all other possible technological industries. And it's only purpose is not to bleed the consumer.

28GB actual content and 100GB copy protections schemes.

Originally posted by hermes_vb:

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28GB actual content and 100GB copy protections schemes.

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Naw more like the other way around. LOL

Originally posted by hermes_vb:

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28GB actual content and 100GB copy protections schemes.

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All of which will be defeated by SlySoft in a matter of days, maybe a month at the most.

So, let me get this straight. This new media combines a write once layer with a write many layer? I fail to see how that can be useful except for specific applications that a home user would never employ themselves.