PC shipments collapse again, but decline in US finally slows

No wonder consumers dont want their PC's, every bloody laptop sports Windows 8 after all.

People that think that PC's are going away need to THINK AGAIN!

You cannot play something like GTA V on a tablet! It simply cannot be done.

I think there will always be a PC market though it will be small, but there are some things only a beefed up PC can do. Such as fantastic graphics or Mods to games you cannot do on a console!

Even console owners admit that!

Originally posted by ichihaifu:

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No wonder consumers dont want their PC's, every bloody laptop sports Windows 8 after all.

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I doubt it.

I think it's got nothing to do with Win 8 and everything to do with even 5yr old PC tech doing pretty much everything most of us home users (and certainly small business owners) need.

I have a 6yr old quad core and having seen recent machines I see no great need to upgrade yet.
I think this is at the heart of it all.

Perhaps when there is a great pressing need to upgrade (as there was when my current PC was bought....I needed it's then C2D CPU to play 1080p retail HD files) things will change.

Meanwhile this nonsense about Win 8 gets trotted out (and in my experience it is most often from those who neither use it nor have seen it in any depth).
Win 8 might have it's flaws but it has the usual Windows ubiquity, is fast, light & the most secure OS out there at the moment.
Some of us value that...although I personally have yet to fell any great need to move on from Win 7 64.

It reminds me of the Vista moaning...I found Vista to be a perfectly good OS after SP1.
Win 8 (with start menu)?
I really can't see what people are complaining about....other than a bit of change - or Microsoft not giving away free OS's for life to their existing customers.

Tablets must have dented PC sales as laptops did before them but that's new tech for you (especially when it's aimed at those who don't need the full-on 'heavy-weight-ness' of a PC).

Quote:

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the most secure OS out there at the moment.

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Although I can agree to most of your statements, this is the one I have the hardest time swallowing: Most Secure OS? O_o

If by most secure you mean for personal users who know nothing of OS security and therefor require nothing more than a button to affirm how secure their unit stays, ok.. for convenience sake sure. If by most secure it is least likely to have malware attacks against it, cause of how bad Windows 8 sells: I am more likely to believe that, though I pretty darn sure Windows 8 gets blasted by malware/spyware/etc. too.

Outside of that, I just don't see it most secure. I pretty sure the majority of security experts and professional ITs would feel the same.

I'm not into video-games, so no need for me to own a PC. My preference always gonna be a Lap-top. Tablets just do not cut for me & Windows 8 is not full ready yet. Just saying.

It always amazes me how there is always someone out there defending Win8 when the overwhelming consensus is that it is a steaming pile of bullcrap.

My comment on this subject is simple...
Yes, PC's last longer than they did before... that will contribute to a drop in sales... but no question the number one problem is Windows 8.

Sadly, I don't think windows 8 is to blame. I certainly don't expect anyone to buy a new PC to get Windows 8...but the fact is that most of the industry for the past decade has been people replacing completely dead systems and people who never had a PC before. The market is rather saturated in the "1st world", and the 3rd world was hit so hard by the global depression that most people are just happy to buy grain. In a way it is almost a bad thing that modern PCs are more reliable and overpowered. I know a few people who are still running systems that came with XP (never upgraded)...and they are perfectly happy. Microsoft Office, Google Chrome, Silverlight for netflix, and some duct tape to replace the laptop screen hinges that cracked to pieces 3 years ago...how much more does the average person need? Not everyone plays video games, and a lot of people just buy a PS3 or 360 or even a Wii if they want games. Heck, the majority of the population is happier with Android/iOS games than they would be with a game requiring a controller with 10 buttons and two joysticks.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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... and some duct tape to replace the laptop screen hinges that cracked to pieces 3 years ago...

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Are you spying on me? :)

Trying to decide what's best for this craptop... Araldite or superglue...


EDIT: My old "craptop" was a gift from a client. Old core2 duo running just fine on x64 win7's MS drivers, only needed to find one for the SD reader. Forget gaming tho.



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PC Camp Has To Raise The Bar...Major!

After a certain level of performance was reached approximately four years ago along with much more compact laptop profiles there hasn't been that "next big thing" still as I type this today. Sure there has been incremental performance advances and a continued slight form-factor reductions, but nothing at all spectacular for the PC camp.

This is what would make me jump: 256G SSHD, 3G(or more)Hz speed with 10-hr. battery life, 13" touch sensitive color correct brilliant screen w/ minimum 1080p resolution, amber backlit keyboard, a bundled (I pay $150 more in a bundled deal)super-slim BT enabled ultra compact Blu-Ray drive whose lithium battery could last at least through 2 movies (4.5 to 5.0 hrs.), video acceleration that would allow 90% of current games (even 3D) to be played without any problems on high, and when needed loud and clear audio all for a grand plus the bundled drive (I don't want to give up a physical drive for the for-seeable future).

Someone build this with a decent (magnesium?) chasis and I'd jump today, otherwise...meh.

Im tired of seeing all these sites post that PCs will soon be dead. There are too many articles about PC sales slipping and not enough about how PS+ and Xbox next are nothing more than shotty PCs that can not be upgraded. With pirating warez so easy, who in their right mind would even consider a console?

Originally posted by jwerner:

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PC Camp Has To Raise The Bar...Major!

After a certain level of performance was reached approximately four years ago along with much more compact laptop profiles there hasn't been that "next big thing" still as I type this today. Sure there has been incremental performance advances and a continued slight form-factor reductions, but nothing at all spectacular for the PC camp.

This is what would make me jump: 256G SSHD, 3G(or more)Hz speed with 10-hr. battery life, 13" touch sensitive color correct brilliant screen w/ minimum 1080p resolution, amber backlit keyboard, a bundled (I pay $150 more in a bundled deal)super-slim BT enabled ultra compact Blu-Ray drive whose lithium battery could last at least through 2 movies (4.5 to 5.0 hrs.), video acceleration that would allow 90% of current games (even 3D) to be played without any problems on high, and when needed loud and clear audio all for a grand plus the bundled drive (I don't want to give up a physical drive for the for-seeable future).

Someone build this with a decent (magnesium?) chasis and I'd jump today, otherwise...meh.

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You really are asking for a lot (other than the tiny little screen...it is odd you would want a 13" screen in a laptop that would be the size of a briefcase to hold the giant battery pack.)

Originally posted by jmoon:

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Im tired of seeing all these sites post that PCs will soon be dead. There are too many articles about PC sales slipping and not enough about how PS+ and Xbox next are nothing more than shotty PCs that can not be upgraded. With pirating warez so easy, who in their right mind would even consider a console?

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I don't see the PC (or even the gaming PC) going away any time soon, but clearly you don't know why people buy consoles. They buy them because they require no setup or intelligence. They also like them because they connect to a TV (they are too dumb to realize that PCs do as well). They also like the fact that they cannot be upgraded...sure, you get crummy graphics...but the developers force all their new games to run on old hardware for 6 years or more. PC is better...but it is so much more capable that it scares off most customers.

You guys hit the nail on the head. I "upgrade" to one of the mid-range AMD 6 core processors over a year ago, 8gb of ram and enough storage, and good to go.

My work PC I bumped up to 16gb on a 2 year old Core i5.

Both of those rattle and hum for what little video editing and Photoshop I need to roll with. Both systems are running Win7 (no need to upgrade that just yet.)

My wife still rolls with my 6+ year old Core 2 Duo, which was the first one released. A decent (older) video card paired with max memory and Win7, and it still does everything she needs for web and playing basic games like Roller Coaster Tycoon! LOL

I too have a "craptop" that also has Win7 on 2gb and a Core 2 Duo. I want to upgrade, but rarely lug the heavy thing around now due to being able to complete easy tasks on my phone and/or tablet. (One less thing to carry in the airport, one less charger to pack or leave behind.)

I'm sure others think the same way I do. Has nothing to do with Win8 (the Surface tabs are actually pretty slick) but more or less no need to waste money when the current crop of hardware is just fine.

I think the issue is a combination of "times are tough" and, "I already do that on my cell phone." I work in PC repair and Sales, and I hear both of those things a lot. Some people are just dead set against windows 8, but most people who take the time to get used to it, get over that. Money is tight for a lot of people right now, and spending at least 400 bucks on a pc when they have one that does what they need it to just doesn't make sense in the current climate. Then there's the fact that when the average user says they play games, they mean facebook games or something of that nature, and the rest of their needs are email and document editing, a bad-a$$ 8 core pc with 16 gigs of ram is a hard sell. Finally, most of what the everyday user does on their computer, they already do on their phone, and they buy a new phone every year.

Originally posted by jjmehm:

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Some people are just dead set against windows 8, but most people who take the time to get used to it, get over that.

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True. But it does take a bit to used to initially.

Kind of reminds me of the Amiga with different screens for different programs/apps... we're back to that at last.

I have to agree with the prevailing sentiment; my desktop's Core2Quad Wolfdale running at 3 GHz with 8 GB RAM and a relatively recent nVidia 560 GTX Ti runs nearly all games at (or near) max just fine. I see absolutely no reason to upgrade within the next year, at least, if not longer. Not bad, for a system that began 6 or 7 years ago with a 2.66 GHz Conroe Core2Duo, 2 GB, and an nVidia 8800 GTS ^^ .

I think that it's not only market saturation that's slowing down sales, but "expectation saturation"; most people really don't expect (or need) much better performance than they already have, that simple.

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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Originally posted by jwerner:

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PC Camp Has To Raise The Bar...Major!

After a certain level of performance was reached approximately four years ago along with much more compact laptop profiles there hasn't been that "next big thing" still as I type this today. Sure there has been incremental performance advances and a continued slight form-factor reductions, but nothing at all spectacular for the PC camp.

This is what would make me jump: 256G SSHD, 3G(or more)Hz speed with 10-hr. battery life, 13" touch sensitive color correct brilliant screen w/ minimum 1080p resolution, amber backlit keyboard, a bundled (I pay $150 more in a bundled deal)super-slim BT enabled ultra compact Blu-Ray drive whose lithium battery could last at least through 2 movies (4.5 to 5.0 hrs.), video acceleration that would allow 90% of current games (even 3D) to be played without any problems on high, and when needed loud and clear audio all for a grand plus the bundled drive (I don't want to give up a physical drive for the for-seeable future).

Someone build this with a decent (magnesium?) chasis and I'd jump today, otherwise...meh.

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You really are asking for a lot (other than the tiny little screen...it is odd you would want a 13" screen in a laptop that would be the size of a briefcase to hold the giant battery pack.)

Originally posted by jmoon:

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Im tired of seeing all these sites post that PCs will soon be dead. There are too many articles about PC sales slipping and not enough about how PS+ and Xbox next are nothing more than shotty PCs that can not be upgraded. With pirating warez so easy, who in their right mind would even consider a console?

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I don't see the PC (or even the gaming PC) going away any time soon, but clearly you don't know why people buy consoles. They buy them because they require no setup or intelligence. They also like them because they connect to a TV (they are too dumb to realize that PCs do as well). They also like the fact that they cannot be upgraded...sure, you get crummy graphics...but the developers force all their new games to run on old hardware for 6 years or more. PC is better...but it is so much more capable that it scares off most customers.

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Funny about the battery pack...does it have to be that big or could it be something a 13" laptop would be normally married to? Since this was fantasizing about what would get me excited to buy a new rig I would appreciate a bit of a battery life breakthrough too. Some specs of my fantasy laptop could be realized now and some, perhaps, never. But, with just a reasonably small jump from now (less than 2-yrs.) most of the imagined rig could be very real if at a slightly higher price.

Have you seen the new Mac laptops? What are they 2000-3000 grand? Pfffft.

Originally posted by jwerner:

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PC Camp Has To Raise The Bar...Major!

After a certain level of performance was reached approximately four years ago along with much more compact laptop profiles there hasn't been that "next big thing" still as I type this today. Sure there has been incremental performance advances and a continued slight form-factor reductions, but nothing at all spectacular for the PC camp.

This is what would make me jump: 256G SSHD, 3G(or more)Hz speed with 10-hr. battery life, 13" touch sensitive color correct brilliant screen w/ minimum 1080p resolution, amber backlit keyboard, a bundled (I pay $150 more in a bundled deal)super-slim BT enabled ultra compact Blu-Ray drive whose lithium battery could last at least through 2 movies (4.5 to 5.0 hrs.), video acceleration that would allow 90% of current games (even 3D) to be played without any problems on high, and when needed loud and clear audio all for a grand plus the bundled drive (I don't want to give up a physical drive for the for-seeable future).

Someone build this with a decent (magnesium?) chasis and I'd jump today, otherwise...meh.

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*Smerk*

LOL, you wish that had come out?

You might want to look at the ASUS and MSI laptops then.

twin 250g or 500G SSD in raid setup with a 3gig HDD for the storage side.

Can get the I7 chips in them some people do overclock the laptop chips to 4 or so gig.

As for chips in general AMD are coming out with a 8 core and 12 core 5gig CPUs for the desktops.

anyway back to the laptops you can get the top end GTX 690 chips in laptops.

don't know when you last looked but it must have been 3 or so years ago, as your wants are old these days.

There is a big difference between desktop i7s and mobile i7s... they are more like slower i5s. Which is not a bad thing.

Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Have you seen the new Mac laptops? What are they 2000-3000 grand? Pfffft.

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I think you can get something like a $300 PC for $1100 from Apple...sure, the display will be smaller, the processor slower, and there won't be an optical drive...but there will be an Apple logo, and that is worth $800, right?

Originally posted by joebloe12:

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People that think that PC's are going away need to THINK AGAIN!

You cannot play something like GTA V on a tablet! It simply cannot be done.

I think there will always be a PC market though it will be small, but there are some things only a beefed up PC can do. Such as fantastic graphics or Mods to games you cannot do on a console!

Even console owners admit that!

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AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better performance on a PC for gaming, better graphics, no Red circle of death or yellow banana of failure.

Besides people, this data only counts PC sales by the crap-ass brands out there like Dell, Hp, IBM.....................it does NOT count those building their own, which is ever increasing.

Originally posted by Mysttic:

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Quote:

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the most secure OS out there at the moment.

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Although I can agree to most of your statements, this is the one I have the hardest time swallowing: Most Secure OS? O_o

If by most secure you mean for personal users who know nothing of OS security and therefor require nothing more than a button to affirm how secure their unit stays, ok.. for convenience sake sure. If by most secure it is least likely to have malware attacks against it, cause of how bad Windows 8 sells: I am more likely to believe that, though I pretty darn sure Windows 8 gets blasted by malware/spyware/etc. too.

Outside of that, I just don't see it most secure. I pretty sure the majority of security experts and professional ITs would feel the same.

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Apple has its HUGE fair share of attacks by malware/spyware and viruses too. Linux is just impractical for MOST users' day-to-day use.

So yes........most secure out there but it's all relative as Windows has SOOOOOOO much more market share that it will in turn have more.

Originally posted by hearme0:

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Originally posted by Mysttic:

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Quote:

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the most secure OS out there at the moment.

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Although I can agree to most of your statements, this is the one I have the hardest time swallowing: Most Secure OS? O_o

If by most secure you mean for personal users who know nothing of OS security and therefor require nothing more than a button to affirm how secure their unit stays, ok.. for convenience sake sure. If by most secure it is least likely to have malware attacks against it, cause of how bad Windows 8 sells: I am more likely to believe that, though I pretty darn sure Windows 8 gets blasted by malware/spyware/etc. too.

Outside of that, I just don't see it most secure. I pretty sure the majority of security experts and professional ITs would feel the same.

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Apple has its HUGE fair share of attacks by malware/spyware and viruses too. Linux is just impractical for MOST users' day-to-day use.

So yes........most secure out there but it's all relative as Windows has SOOOOOOO much more market share that it will in turn have more.

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Actually, Linux is better for the average, non-gamer, non-power user. That's why stripped-down versions of Linux like iOS and Android are so popular. 99% of people will never hit the limits of GIMP...but if you do, then you realize just how slow WINE is when you try to load up PhotoShop. Most people would never try to use their PC as a DVR...so they don't need CableCard support. Most people play facebook games and solitaire, and you can do that with any OS...there might not be a PC version of GTA-V; but I can guarantee there won't be a Linux version.

Originally posted by hearme0:

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Originally posted by Mysttic:

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Originally posted by Interestx:

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the most secure OS out there at the moment.

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Although I can agree to most of your statements, this is the one I have the hardest time swallowing: Most Secure OS? O_o

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Apple has its HUGE fair share of attacks by malware/spyware and viruses too. Linux is just impractical for MOST users' day-to-day use.

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This may be the most secure Windows tho... you'll notice that you don't get hassled for an AV installation as AV has now been incorporated into it free.

Win 8 is not a 'steaming pile of crap' as Pastor said but a bit baffling at first.

As for Linux, we finalise all our online financial transactions on the Puppy Linux distro off SD card via the Seamonkey browser... coincidently the NSW police Cyber-squad's advice. It's really easy to set up and swap to.


Anybody know what's happening to Steam's plans for a Linux game box? Has that been shelved altogether?

I havent upgraded to Windows 8, but I have heard too much about it and played with it a little and didnt care for it. Most people I have talked to have too much invested in their Pcs and have not seen enough of improvement in the newer ones, for what thy use them for, to warrent spending the money to upgrade to a newer PC and dont care for the look of Windows 8. So far as Vista went, I have worked on several pcs with it and found only 1 it actually seemed to work with and it was Vista Home Basic on a Dell. Even the one I own with it,a Compaq, is contrary and came with Vista Home Premium. Have an Emachine with XP works great. A HP and one my son built for me, both with 7 and no problems. The HP originally came with Vista and even with updates was always crashing and never could get it to work right and the reason I originally tried Windows 7. Worked perfect ever since.
Also the majority of people I see now are using tablets. I dont like them or laptops(bought new one, kept it 3 months and sold it at a loss) still prefer a Desktop with a monitor that I can see whats on it, from across the room, if and when I need to.

spammer reported

Originally posted by joebloe12:

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People that think that PC's are going away need to THINK AGAIN!

You cannot play something like GTA V on a tablet! It simply cannot be done.

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Are you serious?

GTA 3 and GTA Vice City can both be played on tablets. Are you really that nearsighted that you cant see San Andreas going tablet before GTA IV and V. PC's arent going away, but that doesn't mean tablets aren't becoming more powerful.