nice/thats pretty sick

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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nice/thats pretty sick

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LG, Samsung, and Toshiba (I think?)

Here's a couple of links I found. Enjoy!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertai...ayer-225924.php

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertai...ayer-186735.php

[img]http://www.slide.com/s/YmMdLyvG7D9Wqpwej7OxnplPB-TBJ3PH?referrer=hlnk">

Quote:

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Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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ok just throwing this out there.is it possible for a company to release an hd-dvd and blu-ray player.like in one system but 2 seperate drives?

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Haha! They already have 'em except they don't have 2 seperate drive. It has one drive that plays both formats. I believe there are two or three manufactoring companies that produce 'em.

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The prices on these combo standalone are insane like over 1000 bucks.

the situation sucks all around because if we let the media giant sony win, then all the hardware that plays bd's will skyrocket due to the fact that companies such as pioneer or microsoft or whoever else that isnt sony or sleeping with sony will have to pay royalties out the wazoo and that in the end will hurt us the consumer. plus you have to think that its harder to copy bd's than it is hd-dvds... haha! im not saying it cant be done but it isnt as easy as backing up a hd-dvd.

ps. sorry for that super long run on sentence up there haha!

Originally posted by cfultz:

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the situation sucks all around because if we let the media giant sony win, then all the hardware that plays bd's will skyrocket due to the fact that companies such as pioneer or microsoft or whoever else that isnt sony or sleeping with sony will have to pay royalties out the wazoo and that in the end will hurt us the consumer. plus you have to think that its harder to copy bd's than it is hd-dvds... haha! im not saying it cant be done but it isnt as easy as backing up a hd-dvd.

ps. sorry for that super long run on sentence up there haha!

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Right now i don't think consumers know how good they have it.We have two major corps battling out for consumer dollars.It took DVD 3 years before consumers seen any kind of major price drop.Right now i know it might suck that one format might have a movie that the other don't but at lease the Hardware price is dropping like crazy.

ok NexGen76. the price for hardware may be dropping but think about how long 360's have been out. and not to mention very few people bought the ps3 because of the price back then. the price drops on the 360 are just basic time versus purchased machines which means the more time that passes the more consumers buy which in turn means the less microsoft can charge for it. the price drop for the ps3, on the other hand is the exact opposite, no one was purchasing the ps3 at that price so they had to drop the prices so more consumers would purchase it. wouldnt it be GREAT if sony and microsoft could come to some kind of agreement, sony provide microsoft with bd's for games and microsoft could provide sony with high def movies! hahaha! only in a perfect world eh?

Originally posted by Nextgen76:

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But you do have some on this board that are totally delusional no matter how people trying to say that a PS3 or 360 add-on not a players not going to stop Hi-Def sells.

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- Weird, this is a discussion of the release of '300' and the relative merits of each format relating to that release and other matters pertaining to that.
But you want to use the thread to complain that when people discuss stand-alone devices they don't include game consoles or game console add-ons!?

Talk about trying to take the debate off topic.

Anyhoo, if I may offer a word of advice?
If you're going to say something to someone try doing it directly and not some lame side comment.

If that was aimed at me
(and your writing/grammar is regularly so bad that your meaning is often open to question)
then I'm sorry to have to tell you that that 3.7 million BD player figure includes the PS3s sold to date
(or if you like call it 6 million shipped/sold, I could care less as it just makes my point even more so).

Similarly the 400,000 HD DVD players is a total that includes the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on numbers.

So, like I said 60:40 or 60:35 on the back of 3.7 (or 6 if you prefer) million verses just under 400,000 thousand.
I don't call that an impressive BD performance.

......and 'managed copy' (and unlike HD DVD where it is mandatory it is only optional but nevertheless supposedly a feature of Blu-ray) is not 'piracy'.

Neither will the complaints relating to BD+ and the impact it will have on things like compatibility and user(non)-friendliness be complaints just from 'pirates'.

You can pretend only 'pirates' should be bothered by BD+ all you like but you're way out in a tiny minority if you think you're kidding anyone with that ludicrous company propaganda.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.

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- Well let's try and do each other the courtesy of sticking to what was actually said, huh?
I actually said "Without PS3 Blu-ray died long ago".
Which is a fact.

Blu-ray is entirely reliant on the PS3 game console and without it would have been dead and buried long ago.
Now that it has effectively killed off the BD stand-alone market they are stuck relying on it and seeing almost no other stand-alones selling.
Remove PS3 from the equation and BD is dead.
Keep PS3 in the equation and BD simply remains a proprietary format almost wholly reliant on the PS3.

But the fact remains that whilst several million PS3s are a viable market (just as PSP & UMD remains so despite UMD being a dead proprietary format too) a game console is never going to take the wider (and much bigger) global a/v market.

BD putting all their eggs in the PS3 basket has given them a short-term boost, of course it has.
But the 60:35/60:40 numbers illustrate even that is disappointing and could never be seriously described as particularly huge.

......and btw the latest stats from DVD Empire shows 55:45 and shrinking is the latest trend - but 'going PS3' has in reality done nothing helpful for the longer term BD strategy.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact

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- Are you kidding me, "like it"?!
I love it, it's proving how weak PS3 is in this so-called war.

.....and let's stick to the point, I was commenting on what you said, which was this -

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now

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- Which is just wrong (and if you have proof to the contrary then please provide it, I'm all ears).

Warner are in fact quite open about how they are making money by being format neutral right now.

Speaking of making money in this.....

You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.

No wonder Samsung & LG abandoned their 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturing stance.
......and they will not be alone either.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.

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Do you have a link on this story? My Google searches turn up zip.

MPEG LA is handling the issue of patent royalties for both HD DVD and BluRay. The last press release from MPEG LA regarding BluRay patent royalties was this:

http://www.mpegla.com/news/n_07-02-21_pr.pdf

Quote:

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Significant Progress Made Toward Creation of Joint Blu-ray Disc™ Patent License Fourth Meeting of Patent Holders Held

Chevy Chase, Maryland USA – 21 February 2007 –

MPEG LA announced today that the fourth meeting of essential Blu-ray DiscTM patent owners, currently consisting of 18 companies, was held in New York on February 6-7 for the purpose of creating a joint license providing fair, reasonable, non-discriminatoryaccess to essential patents, as an alternative to negotiating separate licenses. Significant progress has been made in identifying licensing terms for Blu-ray DiscTM products such as players, recorders, drives, software, recordable discs and prerecorded discs. Participating companies include CyberLink Corporation; Dell Inc.; Hewlett-Packard Company; Hitachi Ltd.; Koninklijke Philips Electronics N.V.; LG Electronics Inc.; Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (Panasonic); Mitsubishi Electric
Corporation; Pioneer Corporation; Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd.; Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.; Sharp Corporation; Sonic Solutions; Sony Corporation; TDK Corporation; Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.; and
Warner Home Video Inc.

“The participation of this group of diverse companies in the development of a joint license bodes well for offering an efficient way to address intellectual property licensing needs for advanced optical devices, discs and related implementations,” said MPEG LA CEO Larry Horn. “The group especially appreciates the input and views received from interested parties, including potential licensees, in all related industry sectors. MPEG LA welcomes the opportunity to facilitate any and all efforts to assist users with their advanced optical disc technology choices in order to give consumers the benefit of innovative information
and entertainment applications.”

Additional patent holder meetings are planned, and work on the joint license will continue. Meanwhile, MPEG LA welcomes additional owners of essential patents to participate in the creation of a joint patent
license for the benefit of the marketplace. Any party that believes it has patents that are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard and wishes to join the Blu-ray DiscTM Patent Portfolio License is invited to submit them for evaluation of their essentiality to the standard by MPEG LA’s patent evaluators. Further information, along with terms and procedures governing patent submissions, can be found at http://www.mpegla.com/pid/bluray/. While only issued patents that are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard will be included in the license, in order to participate in the license development process, patent applications with claims that their owners believe are essential to the Blu-ray DiscTM standard and likely to
issue in a patent also may be submitted for an evaluation of essentiality.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Nextgen76:

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But you do have some on this board that are totally delusional no matter how people trying to say that a PS3 or 360 add-on not a players not going to stop Hi-Def sells.

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- Weird, this is a discussion of the release of '300' and the relative merits of each format relating to that release and other matters pertaining to that.
But you want to use the thread to complain that when people discuss stand-alone devices they don't include game consoles or game console add-ons!?

Talk about trying to take the debate off topic.

Anyhoo, if I may offer a word of advice?
If you're going to say something to someone try doing it directly and not some lame side comment.

If that was aimed at me
(and your writing/grammar is regularly so bad that your meaning is often open to question)
then I'm sorry to have to tell you that that 3.7 million BD player figure includes the PS3s sold to date
(or if you like call it 6 million shipped/sold, I could care less as it just makes my point even more so).

Similarly the 400,000 HD DVD players is a total that includes the XBox 360 HD DVD add-on numbers.

So, like I said 60:40 or 60:35 on the back of 3.7 (or 6 if you prefer) million verses just under 400,000 thousand.
I don't call that an impressive BD performance.

......and 'managed copy' (and unlike HD DVD where it is mandatory it is only optional but nevertheless supposedly a feature of Blu-ray) is not 'piracy'.

Neither will the complaints relating to BD+ and the impact it will have on things like compatibility and user(non)-friendliness be complaints just from 'pirates'.

You can pretend only 'pirates' should be bothered by BD+ all you like but you're way out in a tiny minority if you think you're kidding anyone with that ludicrous company propaganda.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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how can you say blu-ray died when they were offering the 5 free movies with a player.

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- Well let's try and do each other the courtesy of sticking to what was actually said, huh?
I actually said "Without PS3 Blu-ray died long ago".
Which is a fact.

Blu-ray is entirely reliant on the PS3 game console and without it would have been dead and buried long ago.
Now that it has effectively killed off the BD stand-alone market they are stuck relying on it and seeing almost no other stand-alones selling.
Remove PS3 from the equation and BD is dead.
Keep PS3 in the equation and BD simply remains a proprietary format almost wholly reliant on the PS3.

But the fact remains that whilst several million PS3s are a viable market (just as PSP & UMD remains so despite UMD being a dead proprietary format too) a game console is never going to take the wider (and much bigger) global a/v market.

BD putting all their eggs in the PS3 basket has given them a short-term boost, of course it has.
But the 60:35/60:40 numbers illustrate even that is disappointing and could never be seriously described as particularly huge.

......and btw the latest stats from DVD Empire shows 55:45 and shrinking is the latest trend - but 'going PS3' has in reality done nothing helpful for the longer term BD strategy.

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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oh come on man.the post just said what it said.and in that post i see that blu-ray came out on top.im not asking you to like this article but accept the fact

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- Are you kidding me, "like it"?!
I love it, it's proving how weak PS3 is in this so-called war.

.....and let's stick to the point, I was commenting on what you said, which was this -

Originally posted by BIGnewb:

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its even more sad that the extra features they paid for isnt giving them any profit right now

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- Which is just wrong (and if you have proof to the contrary then please provide it, I'm all ears).

Warner are in fact quite open about how they are making money by being format neutral right now.

Speaking of making money in this.....

You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product.

No wonder Samsung & LG abandoned their 'BD exclusive' hardware manufacturing stance.
......and they will not be alone either.

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All your post should be counted as post padding & nothing more.How many times are you going to ruin great treads with worthless PR fud you bring to this board sounding like a broken record repeating the same useless info over & over.True Fanboyism at its best.

I was pissed that the hd-dvd only came out only in a combo version. I paid the $30.00 (hastings had a sale the first week) because I'm inpatient. But I have to admit it was one of the best quality hd-dvd pictures I've seen so far. Very good job on the transfer.

Originally posted by Nextgen76:

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All your post should be counted as post padding & nothing more.How many times are you going to ruin great treads with worthless PR fud you bring to this board sounding like a broken record repeating the same useless info over & over.True Fanboyism at its best.

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- Truly you are utterly devoid of any sense of hypocrisy, irony or shame.

Originally posted by error5:

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Do you have a link on this story? My Google searches turn up zip.

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- Sadly not.....but I'd lay major amounts of money on tales such as this being publicly known in the next couple of years as his develops badly for BD and the rest of the BDA. :P

.....and you're not trying to seriously dispute that Sony is the major patent and royalty holder of BD now are you?

Or that PS3 has killed the BD stand-alone market?

.....and that what few crumbs that are left from that are being hoovered up by the (non 'profile 1.1 compliant) S300?

Originally posted by hughjars:

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- Sadly not.....but I'd lay major amounts of money on tales such as this being publicly known in the next couple of years as his develops badly for BD and the rest of the BDA. :P

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Unfortunately, without the actual quote from Matsushita I would have to agree with NexGen76 that your statement is FUD and pure speculation on your part. As you said in your post - these are "tales." I would rather trust actual press releases from MPEG LA which has the authority to oversee patent royalty issues for both BluRay and HD DVD. I was hoping you wouldn't stoop this low since some of your statements do make sense.

Originally posted by error5:

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Unfortunately, without the actual quote from Matsushita I would have to agree with NexGen76 that your statement is FUD and pure speculation on your part.

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- The difference would be that I'm happy to say that I don't have a link and I never did say otherwise.
I would also say that when I give an opinion or comment I make it obvious that is what I'm doing.

I'm sure someone has seen the Matsushita CEO story somewhere, it was no secret, the CEO of Matsushita said Blu-ray R&D had cost them alone "billions in $ US" (which really ought not to be a surprise to anyone who has been following this tale).

BTW in contrast HD DVD has, relatively speaking, cost almost nothing to develop.

.....and just what exactly is it in this you're questioning?

Are you saying Blu-ray has not cost Matsushita "billions $ US" in R&D?

The rest of what I said, re the happiness or otherwise of the rest of the BDA, as they have watched Sony turn BD into a PS3 proprietary format is sheer common-sense that hardly requires a link as anyone can plainly see just how things have worked out
(and I never did claim that was something public, yet).

The facts stand.
Sony is the major patent holder and is the primary developer of BD.
Sony did engage in risk/cost-sharing to develop BD with a host of other CE companies.
Sony has effectively turned BD into a PS3 proprietary format and with the PS3 (and, to a lesser extent, with the S300) killed the stand-alone market for the rest (hence the dearth of BD stand-alones and their poor sales & the start of those companies going dual format).

We'll see how that one works out in Oct as it become plain that neither the PS3 nor S300 are 'profile 1.1' complaint
(is another new version of the PS3 coming?
Will this be the 120gb variant the Euro execs have hinted at - that's hardly "FUD" either, the story was carried here?)
Is this all just "FUD" too or is it an honest recognition of the fact that the PS3 as it now is can't meet 'profile 1.1' as the PS3 doesn't have the secondary video decoder it needs to have?

Nice the way they sell obsolete kit and have kept quiet about it tho, eh?

I'm sorry you prefer to start quibbling over points I have made pretty clear (I have never claimed a link for something I don't have a link for and if I have speculated I have clearly said and indicated what was my own opinion/view).

I'm also sorry to see you using those ludicrous terms like "FUD" which IMO really ought to be left at the Sony/PS3/BD fanzine sites amongst the risible fanclub who love such terms.

Sorry hughjars but your statement:

"You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product."

comes out as a statement of FACT and not opinion.

Without the actual quote from Matsushita it is as reliable as:

"Ken Graffeo of Universal pictures is getting so much presure from his parent company G.E. that we can expect an announcement of format neutrality soon."

Theirein lies the problem. Sometimes our loyalties can blind us so much that we choose to believe things that may not be true. We may have a tendency to put a spin on things that would otherwise mean something different.

Quote:

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I'm also sorry to see you using those ludicrous terms like "FUD" which IMO really ought to be left at the Sony/PS3/BD fanzine sites amongst the risible fanclub who love such terms.

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The thing is you don't reply to FUD with more FUD...

and you don't stoop down to the level of your opponent becuse he's better at it than you and he's got more experience.

Originally posted by error5:

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Sorry hughjars but your statement:

"You may imagine just how thrilled all the other CE companies must be to watch Sony take their money (several billion $ US according to the management of Matsushita) in risk-sharing & R&D 'partnership' only to then cut the ground out from under them when it came to actually selling any product."

comes out as a statement of FACT and not opinion.

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- I disagree.
I think it is clearly a view and my surmising on the facts available.

I think that in the circumstances (given the billions BD R&D has cost them and the pitifully small numbers of BD stand-alones sold) it makes perfect sense.

The "you may imagine" part is hardly a statement of fact but an invitation to consider the situation in the light of the facts we have/know.

Originally posted by error5:

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Without the actual quote from Matsushita it is as reliable as:

"Ken Graffeo of Universal pictures is getting so much presure from his parent company G.E. that we can expect an announcement of format neutrality soon."

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- Yeah but that (particularly when you do see the full quote) is sheer wishful thinking & pure opinion which is utterly at odds with all the surrounding facts.

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to actually and seriously expect an "announcement of neutrality soon" as we keep on having repeated statements from the company to the contrary.

I don't see what the problem is with informed speculation so long as it is based upon the known facts, everyone does that.
Speculation which is totally at odds with the known facts (as this instance of the tired old 'Universal to format neutral at any second......' plainly is) is where the problem lies.

Originally posted by error5:

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The thing is you don't reply to FUD with more FUD...

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I too have been looking for evidence of this supposed "bad blood" between Sony and Matsushita/Panasonic. I haven't been able to find any evidence of this, however.

It is likely that Matsushita put a good amount of money into BluRay R&D but to suddenly project this as a source of "bad blood" between them and Sony is IMO highly speculative and a bit of a stretch. Panasonic's involvement in BluRay is not just in the standalone market. They are entrenching themselves as a primarly player in the PC drive/burner market with their line of BluRay burners and SL/DL BD-R/RE discs. I think this is where they will recoup most of their initial outlay as the burner market expands and as prices come down.

I would also take into consideration the role of MPEG LA as error5 pionted out. I would imagine that any issues regarding the BD patent will be ironed out in a gentlemanly fashion and all parties involved will get their fair share of the spoils.

In the end hughjars' statement can be considered as pure speculation at this point.

You're right about Panasonic's involvement with BD drives of course dblbogey7 but even there (excepting - perhaps - the DVD burner & BD reader combo drive) the sky-high prices of the currently available BD drives would indicate they aren't likely to be selling huge quantities to recoup much of their investment.

BTW did you know that Panasonic UK have decided not to bother introducing their new gen BD stand-alone, such is the appalling current state of the BD stand-alone market here?

Thanks for agreeing with my viewpoint dblbogey7.

Sometimes we just have to point out that outlandish statements and unsubstantiated claims are not just the monopoly of the BDA and its fans. The way things are right now and becuase of the very heated rivalry between the two, we can safely say that:

Speculation = FUD

HughJars,

Dude just quit while you can your getting smashed left & Right its not funny anymore.

Originally posted by 24Lover:

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HughJars,

Dude just quit while you can your getting smashed left & Right its not funny anymore.

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- Awwwww, you created an account just to 'add' that!?

Tragic.

If this doesnt get back on topic, and fast, im disabling comments, so lay off the side comments or use the PM system.

24lover, first and only warning, post something worth posting or do not post in news comments again.

This movie is awesome in hd. The extras were in hd for the most part. All the extra footage and the like was in 1080p. The game is like a themopli version of risk. It is well worth the purchase.

The battle continues.

So... back on topic...

which version of 300 is superior? HD or BR? If the details of that devolve to the picture being the same, but HD has additional supplemental features on top of the same ones BR has, then the victor is HD. I intend to buy it this weekend, would like to know which one is better.

i don't think you should base your purchase off of one movie. I chose hd dvd because I like universal films and at the time paramount which has since come back to the light.