As HD DVD/Blu-ray backers declare victory, HDTV owners yawn

as i keep saying dvd is the format winner, ppl care about quality of movies not quantity of pixels, and frankly movies suck, add that to a film that costs twice as much on blu-ray/hd-dvd the studios are creating a failure.

with top offerings like 300 and ghost rider its not hard to see why hollywood complains about fewer sales!

The title is misleading.

The only people who said they had already 'won' the 'format war' were the Blu-ray side
(just before & at CES 2007, jan 2007).

The HD DVD side have claimed to be well ahead in stand-alone sales, which happens to be a fact.

(a fact the Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub can't abide cos they 'think' their little game console ought to be - for the 1st time ever - made an exception of & counted as a stand-alone as well as a dual purpose console)

Yay, hopefully both formats fail, and we get a decent next gen format, or better yet just stick with regular good old, cheap and easy to backup dvd's.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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The title is misleading.

The only people who said they had already 'won' the 'format war' were the Blu-ray side
(just before & at CES 2007, jan 2007).

The HD DVD side have claimed to be well ahead in stand-alone sales, which happens to be a fact.

(a fact the Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub can't abide cos they 'think' their little game console ought to be - for the 1st time ever - made an exception of & counted as a stand-alone as well as a dual purpose console)

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Omg not this diehard.

It's a DVD format. Who the hell rants about discs? I don't care which does what, I just want to watch my movies, no extra crap on the side.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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Omg not this diehard.

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- Pfffhhhhh, yeah, of course "OMG not another bash at someone daring to put an alternative view to the usual Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub cr@p".

Imagine the audacity of someone actually responding, correctly, to claims that
"HD DVD/Blu-ray backers declare victory"
by pointing out that only the Blu-ray side ever declared themselves 'winners'.

.....and why on earth are you bringing up Blu-ray's complete failure to reach their final spec and offer the 'advanced features' that they advertsie & claim to offer (at some unknown point in the future on other hardware) got to do with anything?

The headline needs fixing.
HD-DVD has never declared victory while Blu-Ray has.
HD-TV owners are indeed yawning and choosing neither format
until this dumb war is finished,that I do agree with.
Never liked the Blu-Ray BS and that's why I hope it bites them in the ass.

Quote:

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Originally posted by vinny13:

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Omg not this diehard.

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- Pfffhhhhh, yeah, of course "OMG not another bash at someone daring to put an alternative view to the usual Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub cr@p".

Imagine the audacity of someone actually responding, correctly, to claims that
"HD DVD/Blu-ray backers declare victory"
by pointing out that only the Blu-ray side ever declared themselves 'winners'.

.....and why on earth are you bringing up Blu-ray's complete failure to reach their final spec and offer the 'advanced features' that they advertsie & claim to offer (at some unknown point in the future on other hardware) got to do with anything?

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What the hell are you talking about? I never said Blu-Ray once :S I don't care.

intel one of the major backers of hd dvd with MS and toshiba have dropped exclusiveness and opened up to blue ray. and so the end begins...

Agree :)

Agree :)

Originally posted by vinny13:

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What the hell are you talking about? I never said Blu-Ray once :S I don't care.

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- Sure you don't. That's why you log on & go to the bother of commenting.

Your comment

Originally posted by vinny13:

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"I just want to watch my movies, no extra crap on the side."

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is a clear reference to the advanced features HD DVD has and that Blu-ray does not.
That's why I asked you -

Quote:

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.....and why on earth are you bringing up Blu-ray's complete failure to reach their final spec and offer the 'advanced features' that they advertsie & claim to offer (at some unknown point in the future on other hardware) got to do with anything?

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Not too hard to follow, is it?

......and the idea that people going 'format neutral' is anything other than a move in the interests of the company going 'neutral' is hilarious.

HD DVD has several new manufacturers coming in producing hardware.

The truth is that -
HD DVD offers image and audio quality 2nd to none,
HD DVD has the most content,
HD DVD has the most exclusive content,
HD DVD has the most potential content,
HD DVD offers a proper range of spec & prices,
HD DVD has the lowest entry-level prices,
HD DVD has fully functioning advanced features,
HD DVD has a complete and functioning spec and
HD DVD's 'high end' players (ie the Toshiba HD XA2) are the same price as the under spec'd absolescent Blu-ray entry level players.

......oh, and lest we forget, HD DVD does not have the additional DRM sh*te that Blu-ray is attempting to foist on people

Lastly HD DVD is not entirely dependent on a bl*ody game console.

Wow, that's some dead format!

The Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub have been deluding themselves about and claiming 'the death of HD DVD' for a long time now, isn't it about time they woke up and saw reality?

As a HDTV owner, I would like to say that I am not excited about purchasing either a HD DVD player or Blu-Ray player. This is for multiple reasons.

1. I currently still have two other TVs setup in my two bedrooms that are not high definition. If I were to upgrade, then I would want to be able to play the HD discs in all of the rooms of my house rather than just the living room. To purchase HDTVs for both rooms is not only going to be expensive, but also stupid since both TVs still work fine.

2. I just completely converted over from all of my VHS collection to DVD about a year ago. Why would I want to start converting over all of my DVD collection to another HD format when DVD looks good on HDTV?

3. When I purchase a DVD I am only really interested in the movie. $5-$15 for DVD or $15-$25 for HD? hmmm...

I dont know about other HDTV owners, but I mostly purchased my HDTV because I wanted a freaking huge screen to add to my home theater. I will only become fully interested in the HD format when I dont have to invest another $3000+ to get my home completely conveted over to high definition.

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Originally posted by vinny13:

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What the hell are you talking about? I never said Blu-Ray once :S I don't care.

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- Sure you don't. That's why you log on & go to the bother of commenting.

Your comment

Originally posted by vinny13:

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"I just want to watch my movies, no extra crap on the side."

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is a clear reference to the advanced features HD DVD has and that Blu-ray does not.
That's why I asked you -

Quote:

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.....and why on earth are you bringing up Blu-ray's complete failure to reach their final spec and offer the 'advanced features' that they advertsie & claim to offer (at some unknown point in the future on other hardware) got to do with anything?

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Not too hard to follow, is it?

......and the idea that people going 'format neutral' is anything other than a move in the interests of the company going 'neutral' is hilarious.

HD DVD has several new manufacturers coming in producing hardware.

The truth is that -
HD DVD offers image and audio quality 2nd to none,
HD DVD has the most content,
HD DVD has the most exclusive content,
HD DVD has the most potential content,
HD DVD offers a proper range of spec & prices,
HD DVD has the lowest entry-level prices,
HD DVD has fully functioning advanced features,
HD DVD has a complete and functioning spec and
HD DVD's 'high end' players (ie the Toshiba HD XA2) are the same price as the under spec'd absolescent Blu-ray entry level players.

......oh, and lest we forget, HD DVD does not have the additional DRM sh*te that Blu-ray is attempting to foist on people

Lastly HD DVD is not entirely dependent on a bl*ody game console.

Wow, that's some dead format!

The Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanclub have been deluding themselves about and claiming 'the death of HD DVD' for a long time now, isn't it about time they woke up and saw reality?

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Dood. WTF?! I don't care which has what. Wanna know why? BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE NEITHER. And for those prices, why would I?

And why the f*** would I set up an internet connection with a DVD player? That's retarded AND useless, unless your a diehard movie watcher and must watch the commentary and out-takes :S

Originally posted by vinny13:

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And for those prices, why would I?

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- Actually it's Blu-ray players that are the outrageously expensive and under-spec'd ones.

HD DVD isn't very expensive now, it's the price of a decent quality upscaling SD DVD player
(the Toshiba HD A2 is approx $210 in the USA & £180 in the UK).

Originally posted by vinny13:

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And why the f*** would I set up an internet connection with a DVD player? That's retarded AND useless, unless your a diehard movie watcher and must watch the commentary and out-takes :S

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- Well if you don't have a clue about what those 'advanced extras' are just say so.
Pretending that they're the exact same as the extras being offered now on DVD is just plain wrong.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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And for those prices, why would I?

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I agree.

Software prices are too high at this point in time for both formats. Lower player prices must go hand in hand with lower disc prices before the prevailing attitude changes. The people who are willing to buy $200 players may not be willing to buy $30 movies.

Originally posted by error5:

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The people who are willing to buy $200 players may not be willing to buy $30 movies.

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- You wouldn't be trying to imply that all HD DVD & Blu-ray movies are $30 are you error5?

Cos when I buy them I get my HD DVDs for approx £10 - £12 ($20 - $24) from Amazon and I know they are usually cheaper than that in the USA (I've seen them on Amazon USA typically from $10 on up).

The $30 figure is to prove a point.

The usual price of a new release combo HD DVD on amazon is $27.95. At Best Buy and Target these are usually $30 to $35. Walamrt can have them as low as $25 but they're usuallly $29.95 if it's a recent release. Warner and Universal have indicated that majority of their new releases will be combos. I think it's Warner that will be re-releasing some of their early combo titles as non-combo discs at a cheaper price.

The non-combo catalog titles are usually $19.95 on amazon and $25 at Best Buy and Target.

If you can get combos for $10 at amazon then good for you.

If you're looking to import from the EU and UK you'll feel the effect of the weakening dollar compared to the Euro and GBP. The Italian HD DVD release of Bridge to Terabithia is $40 while Fantastic Four from Germany is $45 (hdmoviesource.com). Other titles are $35 or more.

Not really an attractive prospect when you can get the regular DVD for $19.95 or even less.

Originally posted by error5:

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If you can get combos for $10 at amazon then good for you.

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- Combos hardly constitute the entire HD DVD catalogue, in fact they are a minority.......so how come you're trying to use them as an example of what is typical?

I have to agree with error5 here.

The prices of HDM discs have to come down in order for either format to make inroads to more people's homes. It's not enough to have sub $200 players when you're discs are more expensive than regular DVD's. The consumer just won't bite.

I don't think anyone is going to be surprised that lower priced movies will help move things along - and I do expect to see movement on this soon.

But that's still no reason to incorrectly imply that HD DVD combo discs are the majority of HD DVD available content (when they are not) or that all HD DVD movies are priced at the combo level (when they are not).

If anything, from what I can see non-combo HD DVD movies are a little less expensive than their Blu-ray competitors.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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I don't think anyone is going to be surprised that lower priced movies will help move things along - and I do expect to see movement on this soon.

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Do you have proof of this or is this purely speculation on your part?

I just went to amazon.com to preorder the HD DVD set of Star Trek:TOS. The first season alone has a retail price of 198.99 and an amazon price of 129.95. So it will probably cost me around $520 to collect all four seasons. I ended up preordering Blade Runner instead for $27.95.

Call me a pessimist but I just don't see prices coming down soon.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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But that's still no reason to incorrectly imply that HD DVD combo discs are the majority of HD DVD available content (when they are not) or that all HD DVD movies are priced at the combo level (when they are not).

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You need to stop putting words in my mouth hughjars. Your sensitivity to anything that may remotely be anti-HD DVD is getting the better of you. Nowhere in my post did I imply that combos are the majority and nowhere in my post did I imply that all HD DVD's are priced at the combo level.

eatsushi got my point exactly. I just wanted to say that no matter how cheap players are, unless HDM disc prices come down to DVD levels the regular consumer will continue to yawn and ignore both formats.

Hughjars thinks that anyone not singing the praises of HD-DVD is some how a $ony fanboy. I guess it makes him some kind of format fanboy, sad Hugh, really sad. It seems that there is enough people in the world that a cease fire makes more sense. 2 formats can co-exist. Hughjars, we all know that HD-DVD is the format that suites your needs but for some us we can get by using Bluray. Your one man campaign isn't going to make a difference one way or the other. Your posts are acidic and make it easy to take everything you post with a grain of salt. You can give your opinion without being so coarse.

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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Do you have proof of this or is this purely speculation on your part?

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- It comes from comments made by reliable members of avsforums who were at CEDIA.
Believe it or not, it's up to you.
I only said it was an expectation.
We will all see soon enough.

Originally posted by error5:

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nowhere in my post did I imply that all HD DVD's are priced at the combo level.

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- Well then we'll have to agree to differ.

I thought your comment that 'people' will not be "willing to buy $30 movies". was a general comment that implied that the majorty of HD DVD movies were at that price level.
Otherwise, what of them and why make a specific comment about them as if they are so important & that the market revolves around them?
Both formats have movies more expensive than the 'regular' price depending on what they are.

You can't see that I might have a point there, no?

Originally posted by jacsac:

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Hughjars thinks that anyone not singing the praises of HD-DVD is some how a $ony fanboy.

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- Don't be so silly.

I simply put the other side (so often sorely lacking here) and confront the - often - very obvious innuendo and insinution.

I don't expect anyone to "sing the praises" of a bl*ody CE video format, wise up and get real.

I do expect a degree of balanced comment on them tho.

Originally posted by jacsac:

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I guess it makes him some kind of format fanboy, sad Hugh, really sad.

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- No.

That's just absurd.

Countering the obvious lies, half-truth and bias of the obvious Blu-ray propaganda with the full story is not being a 'fanboy' to anyone.

Of course I prefer HD DVD (I have made no secret of that) but it's a preference based on a fairly well researched and reasonably well informed understanding of both formats.
That's hardly 'fanboy-ism'.

hugjars: You obviously have never heard of the concept of reading between the lines.

When I say :

"The people who are willing to buy $200 players may not be willing to buy $30 movies"

does it mean that all HD DVD players are $200???

and all HD DVD discs are $30???

Of course not. It's amazing that this simple concept has to be pointed out to you.

Quote:

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That's hardly 'fanboy-ism'.

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Your knee-jerk reaction to any comment that remotely hints of anti HD DVD sentiments (even if it's not meant to be so) can be construed as such.

Originally posted by error5:

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When I say :

"The people who are willing to buy $200 players may not be willing to buy $30 movies"

does it mean that all HD DVD players are $200???

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- I'd take that to be a clear reference to the current 'entry-level' part of the HD DVD market.

Originally posted by error5:

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and all HD DVD discs are $30???

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- Well if you can't see that it looks like you were inferring HD DVD discs are $30 by your comment then that's up to you.

You asked whether the people buying the entry-level ($200) players will be willing to pay for the most expensive minority ($30) of HD DVD movies; so what was the point you are trying to make - if your intent was not to infer HD DVD movies were generally that expensive?

Would people buying in at the cheapest end of things go for the most expensive content?
Who knows, I doubt they're vital to anything right now but I'm sure there'll be some sort of sales data out there somewhere on those combo discs
(which incidentally are not the same as the 'Twin format' discs just approved by the DVD Forum.....these are expeced to have have 2 layers of HD DVD & 1 SD DVD on the same side).

Originally posted by [quote=error5:

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Your knee-jerk reaction to any comment that remotely hints of anti HD DVD sentiments (even if it's not meant to be so) can be construed as such.

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- No.

If people are going to post misleading comments then I'll make my own pointing that out.

It's a public discussion board and it's perfectly legitimate to do so without a ludicrous attempt to label it as 'fanboy-ism'.

hughjars: You missed error5's point completely.

If $200 is the hardware price point where the general public will start to consider HD formats then what error5 is pointing out is that the current cost of HDM's may not be the software price point where they'll start adopting. He is correct on pointing out that disc prices have to come down.

If you can't read between the lines then that's too bad for you.

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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hughjars: You missed error5's point completely.

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- No, I think you are struggling really hard to avoid what he said, as is clear by your own comment here.

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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If $200 is the hardware price point where the general public will start to consider HD formats then what error5 is pointing out is that the current cost of HDM's may not be the software price point where they'll start adopting.

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- Yeah, clearly implying that $30 is "the current cost of HDMs".

My point entirely, $30 is not actually "the current cost of HDMs", but is the cost of only a small minority of HDMs.

Looking on Amazon USA it appears that anything between $10 - $18 is the usual price of (non-combo) HD DVDs.

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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He is correct on pointing out that disc prices have to come down.

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- Oh please, as if I disagreed with that.....and we all love our moms and blue skys and applepie too. :P

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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If you can't read between the lines then that's too bad for you.

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- Oh don't worry I think I got the point entirely.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Looking on Amazon USA it appears that anything between $10 - $18 is the usual price of (non-combo) HD DVDs.

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You're kidding right? Now you come up with your own version of innuendo.

The two titles that are $10 are "Dreaming Nevada" and "Dreaming Arizona."

When you say $10 to $18 you're obviously referring to "Used and New" prices. I've had bad experiences with their so called "Used and New" Sellers so this is something that I don't recommend. If you're willing to spend $10 - $18 on mostly used (and some new but obviously unwanted) discs then that's up to you.

If you consider only NEW discs strictly from amazon and not from their other sellers then the usual price of non-combos is $19.95.

ALso consider this announcement from Universal where they estimate that up to 90 percent of their 2007 releases will be combos:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/449

eatsushi: Thanks but let's just leave the poor fellow alone. He obviously doesn't get it.

I understand what you're trying to say. I was in the market for an HD DVD player for some time now since I got my first HDTV. I figured the price on the Toshiba HD-A2 was good enough to get my feet wet so I finally gave in.

I usually shop at Best Buy as they have a good selection of titles. However, I can see how both HD DVD and BluRay can be intimidating to the newbie. The average price of discs in Best Buy is $25 for non combo and $30 to $35 for combo. This is unfortunate since most of the titles I like are combos. The newer "must-have" titles are combo like 300, The Departed, Hot Fuzz, Knocked Up etc. I agree that disc prices have to come down some more.

The other thing I see is confusion among the consumers. When I bought my player there was another customer bringing in his A2 for a refund because he said it didn't play the Pirates of the Caribbean Blu Ray disc that he had.

I've enjoyed my HD DVD player so far but I think a couple of things need to be done to make it more attractive to more people.

1. Bring down the prices of discs. The prices of combos especially are too high for the normal person.

2. Educate the consumer and eliminate the confusion.

I'm left with one question.

Does that Hugh guy have a life or somethin'?

lol

Originally posted by vinny13:

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I'm left with one question.

Does that Hugh guy have a life or somethin'?

lol

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- I'm left wondering if your life is so empty that you think a bashing personal comment & a little trolling on a public discussion board is the best you can manage with your own time?

It's somethin' to do.

Originally posted by maryjayne:

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As a HDTV owner, I would like to say that I am not excited about purchasing either a HD DVD player or Blu-Ray player. This is for multiple reasons.

1. I currently still have two other TVs setup in my two bedrooms that are not high definition. If I were to upgrade, then I would want to be able to play the HD discs in all of the rooms of my house rather than just the living room. To purchase HDTVs for both rooms is not only going to be expensive, but also stupid since both TVs still work fine.

2. I just completely converted over from all of my VHS collection to DVD about a year ago. Why would I want to start converting over all of my DVD collection to another HD format when DVD looks good on HDTV?

3. When I purchase a DVD I am only really interested in the movie. $5-$15 for DVD or $15-$25 for HD? hmmm...

I dont know about other HDTV owners, but I mostly purchased my HDTV because I wanted a freaking huge screen to add to my home theater. I will only become fully interested in the HD format when I dont have to invest another $3000+ to get my home completely conveted over to high definition.

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Agree with you man.I though buy Xb360 HD-DVD add on but now i stop and pretend to buy nothing.I'll stick with current dvd's.

The cost of progress.

BEST BUY TRY = X-BOX add-on and Netflix HD DVD.
$199 gets you a player that works good and 4.95 gets two HD DVD movies a month.

Originally posted by barontc56:

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BEST BUY TRY = X-BOX add-on and Netflix HD DVD.
$199 gets you a player that works good and 4.95 gets two HD DVD movies a month.

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Another thing I never understood... Why did the 360 choose DVD-9s instead of HD-DVD?

I have the HD-A2 and it works great. I also think that the price of movies need to come down substantially before either format will really take off. I will not pay $35 for any movie. Certainly renting with Netflix is ok if you don't care if you own it but I like to buy my movies and have them forever, so for me it's not as good an option.

I hate the whole idea of the combo discs. If I wanted a DVD I would save the money and buy the DVD for $15. I got an HD-DVD play to play HD movies. It's not a good deal for either party (people who want the DVD, people who want HD-DVD) to pay extra for a disc with both formats. It's just really stupid.

Also one of the big points HD-DVD guys said would be so much better about their format was that it would be much cheaper to produce movies on their format. They certainly aren't passing those saving on to the consumer if that is the case. Where I live the average price of an HD-DVD combo disc is higher than the comparable Blu-ra discs. And as far as non-combo discs, good luck finding any. Almost all available discs in my area in stores are combo. Even the ones that aren't are still $25. I know on Amazon most are $20-$25 but I don't want to have to order all my movies.

I love the HD formats and don't really have a preference to which I have. I have the HD-DVD because I got a good deal at Walmart who had some on clearance for $150. I would actually like to see both formats survive and for a combo player to get down to a reasonable price.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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Another thing I never understood... Why did the 360 choose DVD-9s instead of HD-DVD?

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- There were several reasons.

Sticking with DVD5 or DVD9 meant sticking to a cost effective and known media the entire gaming industry was familiar with.

The HD DVD drive was not available when the XBox 360 launched.

The 1st HD DVD drives were also not able to spin the DVDs to the x12 speed needed for games.

They did not intend to use the game console to be primarily aimed at pushing a video format.

Originally posted by Askar:

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I hate the whole idea of the combo discs. It's not a good deal for either party ... to pay extra for a disc with both formats. It's just really stupid.

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Apparently you're not alone and Warner has responded. They have reissued a few titles that were previously combos as HD DVD only discs and at the lower price. Examples: The Departed, The Ant Bully, Superman Returns, Letters From Iwo Jima, Happy Feet etc.