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Originally posted by NexGen76:

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When you look at the Bigger picture BD still out sold HD-DVD last week 61BD:39HD despite BD not having any major titles released.So if people want the rant & rave about two movies so be it but this hasn't changed the facts.BD still lead in overall HD market share 65BD% 35%HD.HD-DVD hasn't out sold BD one week this year.

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True, but Warner wanted to see who'd win in a one on one fight, which was HD-DVD. Although I do find it very hard to believe that a huge corp such as Warner would base their entire home theater future based on one title's numbers, infact that idea sounds pretty ridiculous. Like Hugh has been saying, wait till CES 08, it looks like that is going to be the turning point in the war for whichever side.

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Warner not going to base there choice off what BD & HD did off sells from there studio they are looking for the bottom line & thats BD having 65% to 35% advantage over HD.I don't know why people from both camps think this is where Warner going to make there choice.But your right when CES08 come the very lease HD-DVD camp can hope for is that Warner going to stay neutral.Trust me HD-DVD not going to have any exclsive announcements that week.But like i have said keep your eye on New Line Cinema & Dimension Films(The Weinstein Company).

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Exactly. The war could still go either way, he point I am trying to make is that despite HD's awesome prices,and some might say, better software lineup BD somehow keeps managing to beat it each week.
Which I find to be very odd, logically HD-DVD should have won by now.

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You make a few good points, but if you can't see that this story points out an easy to follow barometer of the current sales picture, then you are just missing the real business going on here. Monthly sales count free discs and not mail-aways, so it's hard to pin them down. (go back and read any thread to get the arguments)

This is simple - with the huge lead in blu-ray compatible players out there over HD-DVD, HD-DVD wins in a current title that's sold on both formats. That is news. That is like a poll in a political race, actually. It doesn't solve anything, but it's a good look at what's REALLY happening out there, sans the spin.

blah blah blah.. more of the same old..

3 little words about sony... Universal Media Disk

/me giggles so hard I spills my coffee.... ;)

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& i thought you drank tea!

Originally posted by varnull:

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3 little words about sony... Universal Media Disk

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Please, let us never speak about UMD, The stupidest thing Sony could have ever come up with.

And about the PS3's, I would consider them as standalone player as well, only because it has been rated one of the best BD player around. And I mean, I bought PS3 for the games, not for BD, but since I had the option of having BD as my HD choice, it would make no sense for me to go out and buy an HD DVD player or another BD player, and I'm sure alot of PS3 owner's view it in that way. Plus, the 5 free BD is actually smart, Give the owners 5 free BD movies to start off their HD collection. I mean, they are not going to go out and continue the collection with HD DVDs.

And unless the PS3 owners are complete idiots, every owner should know it is a BD player, saying that, the games are even made on BD disks ;)

rudeboi to tell u the truth i have a standalone hd dvd and ps3. Reason i have both is mainly because of some releases are only BD or HD. thats why i have both will keep both but your point is right as well i was going to stick with blu ray til i saw transformers was only HD so i said screw it on Black friday and bought a A3 for 200$ since its not alot. plus that way when they have sales for either format this week i can get a deal on either one as well plus dont have to worry who wins format war .

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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When you look at the Bigger picture BD still out sold HD-DVD last week 61BD:39HD despite BD not having any major titles released.So if people want the rant & rave about two movies so be it but this hasn't changed the facts.BD still lead in overall HD market share 65BD% 35%HD.HD-DVD hasn't out sold BD one week this year.

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jees, you are truly SONY Public Relations aren't you full of spin cherry picking the results in every post. a film is released on two formats that is aimed at kids and it sells more units on hd-dvd regardless of the fact that more than 6 million blu-ray players have been sold and less than 1 million hd-dvd players are in circulation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations#Spin

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Spin

In public relations, spin is a sometimes pejorative term signifying a heavily biased portrayal in one's own favor of an event or situation. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics. Politicians are often accused of spin by commentators and political opponents, when they produce a counter argument or position.

The techniques of "spin" include:

* Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking)
* Non-denial denial
* Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths
* Euphemisms to disguise or promote one's agenda
* Ambiguity
* Skirting
* Rejecting the validity of hypotheticals
* Appealing to internal policies

Another spin technique involves careful choice of timing in the release of certain news so it can take advantage of prominent events in the news. A famous reference to this practice occurred when British Government press officer Jo Moore used the phrase It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury, (widely paraphrased or misquoted as "It's a good day to bury bad news"), in an email sent on September 11, 2001. The furor caused when this email was reported in the press eventually caused her to resign.

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why cant company PR just feck off............

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/04/02/compulsory_blogging/

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We've all heard about employees being sacked for blogging. But as the fad begins to wane, will staff soon be sacked for failing to blog?

Last week, Sony BMG UK issued a new corporate marketing strategy.

According to an official release from the group, Ged Doherty, chairman and chief executive of SonyBMG in UK and Ireland, said the company "has made it obligatory for all senior staff at both Columbia Records and RCA Records to start blogging actively".

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One thing I haven't seen to many people mention about the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player is that there is a large percentage of PS3's hooked into SD TV's, so obviously, those owners aren't going to 'waste' their money on high-def content for their non-high-def TV's...

Of course, the PS3 also has that going for it, as the owners upgrade to HDTV's they will have a pre-existing Blu-Ray player for their HD movie needs... No 'need' to get HD-DVD players (unless there are titles on HD-DVD they must have)

On the HD-DVD side, it is safe to say that over 90% of their players are being used specifically to play HD content on an HDTV.

What this all means is that until the actual usage of the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player is tracked and analyzed, the numbers are essentially meaningless.

Our only clear answer lies in the numbers like this article presents - Titles released on both format on the same day... Blade Runner will be interesting to track, as it was not involved in any big xmas sales, like Harry Potter & Bourne were in the Best Buy Buy One Get One sale...

Lastly, single titles outselling on one format will not mean a victory for any format as their are a few demographic differences between the 2 camps...

Note: I have an HD-DVD player and HDTV and am perfectly fine buying a Blu-Ray player too, but I want to wait until their specifications are finalized.

This is beginning to bore me.....
I have never found such abunch of fanboys in all my life, doesnt matter who wins, we are going to get fleeced by the companies anyway.

the main reason i can see for the continued support for hd dvd is
there are 11 million blu players(ps3 included)
there are around 1 million hd dvd players
yet the number of sales for hd dvd and blu ray like for like are around the same.
work out the maths if hd dvd had 11 million players out there blu would be out sold 10-1
i own both formats and truthly prefere hd dvd as its given me less problems and bl ray just is not ready and i feel sony once again have jumped the gun.

hd dvd will win... toshiba can fall back on plan B) microsoft...putting a hd dvd drive in the 360 would easily end the battle. 360 still beating out sony ps3 in sales here in the US..
they just dont want to lose profit by putting the hd dvd player in the box at its current price ..but if microsoft realy wants to f*ck sony..they can do that at the last minute...if all esle fails...or maybe they are just having fun ..yea let sony drain as much resources on blu ray as they can then screw em in the end ...lol

Originally posted by kerouac06:

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One thing I haven't seen to many people mention about the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player is that there is a large percentage of PS3's hooked into SD TV's, so obviously, those owners aren't going to 'waste' their money on high-def content for their non-high-def TV's...

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Gotta love when well-intentioned people have no idea what they're talking about.

http://gizmodo.com/336892/ps3-owners-roc...y-other-console

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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So you call BD fanboys ignorant and/or idiots because they go on about BD having a 65:35 (or whatever the numbers are)overall sales lead

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- Actually no that's not quite what I have done at all.

I've "gone on" about idiotic Sony/PS3/Blu-ray fanboys who have claimed it is all over and that HD DVD is dead or dying at this very early stage because of the (unimpressive) Blu-ray 60:40 sales lead.

Which is not quite the same thing.

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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saying that the gap is insignificant etc etc...

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- Well in view of the circumstances that led to that initial lead it clearly is insignificant.

Only a fool would not have expected the PS3 to sell in multi-millions pretty quickly and that it would give a boost to Blu-ray.
That was entirely expected by everyone.

The surprise part has been that the PS3 is a bit of a flop in it's own market (being firmly stuck in 3rd place despite the recent lift in it's sales numbers) and how poor that lead was.

It is also the case that even the studio execs (Warner amongst them) have been saying that those previous numbers aren't what they are looking to and that it is the Q4 of 2007 which would be the period they would be looking at very closely.

Ignore that all you like but that is not my speculation, imagination or invention.
That is the fact of the matter.

So plainly this has been a disaster for Blu-ray (and they know it).

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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Yet here you are saying that a 45:55 ratio on ONE title is the nail in BD's coffin (even hough HD apparently still didnt top BD sales that week)

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- Actually no, again.

I expect Blu-ray to be around for some time.

I expect it to lose this little fight but there will still be a market of several million PS3s, a relative handful of stand-alonesand some PC readers & burners to sell to.

You won't find me saying Blu-ray is dead or dying.

It's just not going to 'win'.
As movie studios gradually peal away to concentrate on the easier, cheaper and eventually more numerous format it's going to stagnate in the end, I'd say.

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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that its enough to make Warner go HD exclusive, talk about hypocritical BS.

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- No, it's called going on what Warner themselves have said.

You (and the Blu-ray fanclub here) can spin this as best you can but the truth of this is obvious to all but the most determinedly blind.

This was a like-for-like release and despite a huge advantage in player numbers Blu-ray got beaten
(when only another weak and unimpressive Blu-ray win was all HD DVD actually needed).

It's Warner themselves who said that Q4 events would inform their future choices and decisions, not me.

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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And dont go bringing up crap about BD having 10m players (PS3's) sold, making attachment rates pathetic, it should be obvious to anybody who isnt a complete idiot that some 90% of PS3's arent being used as standalone players.

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- If you honestly think attachment rates are meaningless then you are sadly misinformed.
That's just Bluray.com BS for the feeble-minded and the shallow 'thinking'.

It's attachment rates that show (only too clearly as these events prove) Blu-ray has to sell disproportionately more PS3s to keep ahead of HD DVD.

It's the attachment rates that prove that once stocks of the $100 (regular price, not limited season special) HD DVD players hit in a couple of months time and take huge inroads into the mass-market that it is HD DVD that will win
(particularly as those same manufacturers are going to be withdrawing their still very well selling regular DVD players to make room for the new kind - bear in mind how many $100 regular DVD players are sold right now).

That's all the studios care about.

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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I would even be willing to bet that half (or more) of the people who have a PS3 dont even really know what BD is, or they do, but only because of the free discs they got with their console. And have no interest in it at all.

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- Which is precisely why, ultimately, Blu-ray will lose.

It is totally reliant on the PS3 game console and the problem with that is that the PS3 just doesn't sell enough movies.

Which is what we have just seen.

(and selling off limited old stocks of dead & buggy & lowly spec'd Samsungs & Sonys at prices which, despite the discount, are still higher than their HD DVD equivalent does not alter this one bit)

Originally posted by Andrew691:

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BD somehow keeps managing to beat it each week.

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- Which at this very early stage is the part that no-one (excepting the Blu-ray fanclub) is too bothered about right now.
It was wholly expected.

This is all going to be decided by where the movie industry puts it's weight & effort.

It's not Blu-ray. The game console just doesn't shift enough movies.

It is HD DVD.
HD DVD movie sales will just continue to grow fast as the player numbers rise and it moves into the mainstream mass-market (in a way the, still, expensive game console can never do).
HD DVD is the one that shifts movies
(which is what we have just seen).

It's just a matter of time now
(as I have said all along).

I can't believe all the arguing about which format is better when no one here has a stake in who wins. It's in all of our best interests to hope this war goes on for a long time and has numerous jumps back and forth with each camp to drive down prices and keep things from when VHS ruled. (Who remembers when tapes were at least $50?)

HD DVD v DVD wil be stimulous enough for lower pricing.

That's the real battle.

We simply don't need blu-ray, the game console format - which if consumer interests are really your primary concern is by far the more anti-consumer of the 3.

Originally posted by hughjars:

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HD DVD v DVD wil be stimulous enough for lower pricing.

That's the real battle.

We simply don't need blu-ray, the game console format - which if consumer interests are really your primary concern is by far the more anti-consumer of the 3.

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just think of what BR will have t do to match DVD, all in all for a sign of the end you need at least 2 years worth of poor sales and frankly neither side is fading they have good days and bad the only way the end will come is when one has 500+ bad days in a row.

gdabi - 30% of PS3 owners with an SD TV (I included the 'other' & 'don't know') isn't a 'large' percentage? I do know what I am talking about as I had read that study... Plus, how many of those 70% with HD sets are just 720p/1080i and users are totally fine with standard DVD upscaling on those sets - again not feeling the need to buy pricier blu-ray discs, which in some cases can be found for $10 on DVD vs. $25-$30 on blu...

Again, I am not endorsing either camp, I am just fine with dual formats & am trying to cut through alot of the misleading numbers out there... After Christmas gifts are opened and people start playing with their new toys things should get a lot clearer on both sides.

Like I said in my previous post, the most meaningful data is going to come from NEWLY released movies on dual-formats...

Originally posted by hughjars:

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HD DVD v DVD wil be stimulous enough for lower pricing.

That's the real battle.

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or BD vs DVD

I don't really care which format "wins," although I'm beginning to doubt either will ever go away. It seems to me both HD discs would have far more to to worry about competing with the current standard.

It was time for the digital (DVD) to take over from the mechanical (VHS.)

DVD offered easier access to specific scenes without waiting on rewinding. Special features and deleted scenes became watchable and new audio options available through DVD menus. Neither HD format offers truly new functionality.

VHS couldn't compare with the picture clarity of DVD, and that's on the TVs everyone already had. You could see the difference on a tiny set that cost $50 US. Without a huge screen, the difference between plain DVD and either HD format is minimal if not negligible. I don't know the hard numbers, just that no one I know has a 1080p-capable set. Upscaling DVD players max out resolutions on the most affordable (probably best-selling) HDTV's.

It's not time for HD discs to eclipse DVD.

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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HD DVD v DVD wil be stimulous enough for lower pricing.

That's the real battle.

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or BD vs DVD

I don't really care which format "wins," although I'm beginning to doubt either will ever go away. It seems to me both HD discs would have far more to to worry about competing with the current standard.

It was time for the digital (DVD) to take over from the mechanical (VHS.)

DVD offered easier access to specific scenes without waiting on rewinding. Special features and deleted scenes became watchable and new audio options available through DVD menus. Neither HD format offers truly new functionality.

VHS couldn't compare with the picture clarity of DVD, and that's on the TVs everyone already had. You could see the difference on a tiny set that cost $50 US. Without a huge screen, the difference between plain DVD and either HD format is minimal if not negligible. I don't know the hard numbers, just that no one I know has a 1080p-capable set. Upscaling DVD players max out resolutions on the most affordable (probably best-selling) HDTV's.

It's not time for HD discs to eclipse DVD.

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and were as with VHS you could fast forward past all the crap on DVD you are forced to watch whatever they think you should watch, when they dial back the protections and let me skip all that unnessery crap I'll care who wins, sadly both have their own set of protections to ensure you can't watch the movie in timely manner you can not skip certain ads or protection screens.

/rant
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Gee let's review the past wars
CD VS. Mini disc
VHS VS. BETA
SD Cards VS. Memory stick
and now HD DVD VS. Blu-Ray
boy I wonder who will win this one?
Toshiba/ Microsoft or Sony ?

Instead of reading through an entire page of mostly fan boy comments, I will just post my comment. I think this says more about who has BD and who has HDDVD. What that says I am not to sure since Disney is I believe behind BD and harry potter is more kid oriented, but as to which is winning, sales like this really show nothing.

This maybe due to the fact that fans want the movie and find that the HD DVD format is the cheaper of the two and they just want to watch the movie. Remember for the consumer the end of all things it comes down to cost. :)

It's also nice that the UK/Euro HD DVD version is a 2 disc release with all the extras in HD on the 2nd disc.
(some Blu-ray fans had complained - obviously on behalf of the US HD DVD owners, how considerate of them - that on the 1 disc US release some extras were in SD).

Universal must have different sources. The Nielsen numbers from the week ending December 16th shows Harry Potter BluRay outselling HD DVD - same as the week ending 12/23:

http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/VideoScan/

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It's also nice that the UK/Euro HD DVD version is a 2 disc release with all the extras in HD on the 2nd disc.

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The amazon.uk listing of HP Order of the Phoenix shows it to be a single disc release:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Harry-Potter-Ord...98887524&sr=1-4

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Product details

Actors: Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint, Emma Watson, Ralph Fiennes
Language English
Region: All Regions
Number of discs: 1

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I have seen both BlueRay and HDD in stores. But when you add up what it costs to have it in the home it's still not worth it. I will just use my old standard DVD player and analog TV until the prices get about half of what they are now. They need to get rid of anything with moving parts and laser lites anyway. Let's really go solid state. I saw just today a 10 GIG USB stick at Staples for $69. It will hold at least 2 movies. If they are DIVX it will hold 7 to 8 movies easy. That should help time go by on a long trip.

Originally posted by ronnybuck:

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I have seen both BlueRay and HDD in stores. But when you add up what it costs to have it in the home it's still not worth it. I will just use my old standard DVD player and analog TV until the prices get about half of what they are now. They need to get rid of anything with moving parts and laser lites anyway. Let's really go solid state. I saw just today a 10 GIG USB stick at Staples for $69. It will hold at least 2 movies. If they are DIVX it will hold 7 to 8 movies easy. That should help time go by on a long trip.

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you forget HDef, a HDef compression of a 1.5 hour movie can easily be 3-5 GB and for the most part the mini 10GB USB drives are 70-100$ the larger HD sized ones are 30-50$ so movies would jump from 10-30 to 60-90$.

the trouble with going solid state for films is that there would be a high demand on USB drives and they would double in price after acouple years, sure they might be forced to inovate a new setup based off USB/FLASH but frankly its as bad or worse than the current Hdef format war.